Fornits

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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Also, I recall that the kid who came back from NY (I think he was at Millbrook too) and told me of DAYTOP's supposed mob connections was a goofy redheaded guy John HOPKINS, if memory serves.  Whoa! Another H.

A coorection: my bad.  There was a Henry C., not a Henry H.  

But a Cole H. Renee H. and a Bobby H. also Bobby's brother was there for a while; his name was Chris H.  Their cousin too, Jeremy H.

Also John HOPKINS, the redheaded guy who was in Millbrook.

Goodnight psy.

Yes, education is the key, is it not?

And for another thing: I learned about my Asperger's much later on, way after DAYTOP.  

This revelation was quite a relief, as I then understood that there is nothing wrong with me, that I was born this way (non-NT).

DAYTOP did little for me other than inculcate into my mind a sense that I was somehow "broken" and "bad."

Fuck DAYTOP.

Quote from: "chuckh"

I am very pleased that people here understand the mind controlled and dumbing down of the population as a whole. It is part of a grander scheme for control by the elitist. It is good that people start thinking for themselves and becoming their own master. Just listen to your gut feeling and when you yourselves have children, please teach in a positive way. As small children allow them to be with their imaginary friends and tell them they can learn from them. As children grow older have patience and understanding. Earth is nothing more than a school, an illusion where we come to learn lessons.
Teach them that mind control exits in all aspects of life from the statist controlled school system teachings and how the county is going towards fascism. This starts by putting the youth in mind controlled facilities such as the one I was placed into called the seed. Putting the youth on mind controlling drugs such as riddling. All this is for control and one world government. Parents are part of the problem because they have been brainwashed also. Please start thinking for yourselves. Look in the sky and see the chemtrails they are spraying us with. They keep so much from us. Project blue beam is another mind controlled project where radio frequencies are aimed at us constantly. There are weapons they have such as haarp where earth quakes can be generated at will. Television is such a farce where they tell us what they want us to know. Wake up people please. Send out frequencies of love toward the earth. We have all been incarnated at this time to grow and hopefully get past the negativity and evolve into a higher dimension. We have been here before but we must raise our consciousness.

I'm not sure everybody here would agree with you.

PS:  Are you a fan of Tool by any chance?

Chuck, dude, put your tinfoil hat on and get back into your fallout shelter.  WTF are you talking about?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29142654/?GT1=43001

In one of the most shocking cases of courtroom graft on record, two Pennsylvania judges have been charged with taking millions of dollars in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers.

Anne, I slightly edited the post you quoted in order to include the names of the people who thought up these humiliating "LEs."

Marcy was one of the more vicious and confrontational counselors; she was downright sadistic about it really, I'd say.  

I used to hate the encounter groups she's run because she'd scream at you until you wanted to hide under your chair.  

She'd always scream at me and tell me how phony and shallow and plastic she thought that I was.

She'd counsel me to try and not use big words when I speak to people and told me that she thought it very annoying.

I am as certain as I can be that she once recommended to me that I read Dianetics.  That would have been in '93 or '94.

You are welcome, Guest, and I thank you for your continued support and encouragement.

And now for a little more commentary.

As human beings we (or at least, most of us) need to be in relationship to other people. We need others as friends, confidants, lovers, etc. to offer us affirmation, solace, correction, fellowship, etc.

In normal, healthy relationships, however, we also need time and space for ourselves occasionally so we can obtain rest and spend time in reflection. We will on occasion voluntarily give up our personal agenda on occasion to meet an emergency, whether it concerns our family, out community, or our nation. But once the emergency has passed we go back to our normal lives again.

In abusive organization like DAYTOP this personal agenda is seldom if ever granted; the member is almost always, if not always, giving up his own right to privacy and the pursuit of his own goals in order to pursue the goals of the group and to submit to the agenda of his or her authority.

Finally, the process of group building, when it becomes abusive, creates a system that is mutually addictive to both founder(s) and followers.  The followers need the founder/leader/organization to make them feel that they are realizing the proffered goal; the founder/leader/organization needs followers (some call them the leader's "narcissistic supply") to make him (O'Brien) feel successful, powerful, and truly enlightened.

It is a truism that to be in one's teens and early twenties (like we Dallas DAYTOPians from the early '90s were) is a most difficult period of life; young people, such as the young people that DAYTOP seems to target (at least back then), are in a major transition period of life from childhood to adulthood. They are beginning to take on or be given greater responsibility over their own lives, making decisions for themselves that some authority-parents, teachers, etc.-formerly made for them. This can be either a heady experience or an unsettling one, often both at the same time. If some one older (like Mr. O'Brien) comes along and offers guidance, even in the form of harsh discipline,this can be experienced as relief from the pressure of decision-making.

Adolescence and early adulthood is a notoriously difficult period of life. It is a transition from childhood to adulthood, with young people wanting and being able to make more decisions for themselves. Decisions that an authority (teacher, parent, etc.) formerly made for them they are now having to make for themselves. And they are having to think about their futures: what career should they pursue? What do they want to look for in a potential mate? What do they believe about the meaning of life? This can be a bit unsettling, even scary, for a lot of young people. If a group like DAYTOP comes along and offers "assistance" in the form of "attack therapy," or even offers to make some or most of those decisions for them, then this can be experienced as a major relief.

I believe that this is how and why the DAYTOP generally only succeeds in enticing people to join the DAYTOP organization as staff/counselors, when the potential recruits are barely adults, whether in an emotional or chronological sense.

Furthermore, in practice, it looks a lot like "Honesty" is deriving his/her sense of self-worth as an individual from his/her involvement with his/her group (DAYTOP).

"Honesty" offers something of a voluntary testimonial as to how wonderful DAYTOP is--for the first time in his/her life he/she feels special and has been given meaning and purpose. This is no doubt true, which is precisely what makes his/her statements so sad.

There is a potential danger with public testimonials, such as "Honesty's" or any of the others made publicly by past or present DAYTOPians. If the testimony is to a person or a human organization (as in this case since, after all, DAYTOP is a human organization which is led by imperfect humans and not by God Himself) there is the possibility that the person or organization may change in time from good to bad. For example, teaching discipline to students or to one's own children is essentially good, and getting them to articulate answers to spoken questions may facilitate learning. But discipline may mutate into abuse, if, for example, the teacher or parent or counselor hits a student with words; with verbal abuse and psychological assaults, humiliation and such.  At this point, since Honesty has made a statement praising the DAYTOP it will be much harder for him/her to admit that it is abusive. It is humiliating to have to "eat one's words" and Honesty will more than likely redefine the abuses as "discipline" designed to improve the "dope fiend/druggie" who was hit, humiliated, verbally abused, or otherwise mistreated.  After all, if what I am saying is true in all respects, then it would mean that DAYTOP has been abusing kids for the past forty years, and why would DAYTOP or any of its staff want to acknowledge and admit to that?

This is very much like what happens with the woman who is physically abused by her husband. Having expressed her love for him and committed herself to living with him "for better or for worse" she finds it impossible to entertain the thought that he could and would deliberately hurt her. So she redefines the abuse and views it either as discipline to make her a better wife and mother, or as a punishment she deserves for failing to please her husband.
Public testimonies to God or abstract principles like love, patriotism, or the virtues of a lifestyle of absolute sobriety do not carry the same potentiality for negative consequences, for the simple reason that God and abstract principles do not change from good to bad, from healthy to unhealthy.

Virtually any conversion experience will feel similar on the level of emotions, whether the conversion is to Christ, Mohammed, Marx, Monsignor O'Brien, or Elvis.

That does not mean all conversions are the same, just that they feel the same.

And doubtless we'll shortly be hearing the DAYTOPians cry "slander" as a response to my recent posts on the topic of "Honesty" and the source(s) from which he/she derives his/her self esteem, and his/her sense of personal validation.  Any criticism of any of DAYTOP or anyone on its staff will be automatically be interpreted as "slander" and/or "persecution" as we all well know.

I would encourage the DAYTOPians to try and remain objective and rational in reflecting on the concepts that I have introduced to the discussion.

Monsignor O'Brien and the DAYTOP organization have made this person "Honesty" feel good about him or her-self, probably for the first time in his/her life, and "Honesty" wants to do everything he/she can to make sure that nothing further happens to expose DAYTOP and hurt the credibility of the man (O'Brien) and group (DAYTOP) that have given this person his/her new-found improved self-image.

"Honesty's" is a very typical position in most cult groups. People outside of the group are viewed either as potential members or potential enemies of the group. They are not usually considered appropriate for friendships-whether close or casual.  They are not seen as adequate individuals in and of themselves.

All cults and abusive organizations view themselves as engaged in some all-important work, whether it is to convert lost souls, spread "The Truth," improve the well-being of members, get people off of drugs, or simply raise money. Nothing can be permitted to interfere with this all-important mission.

"Honesty's" is a classic expression of the "end justifies the means" argument. This is a terrible concept under the best of circumstances, as it permits deception and other unethical behavior in the pursuit of "good" goals. It is especially heinous when followed in the name of helping people.

"Honesty" (and all of the DAYTOPians for that matter) needs to learn that his/her importance and worth as a person does not depend on any role or function that he/she fills in a group-his/her value (and that of all people) rests in the fact that he/she is a human being. One is not more valuable because one possesses a high IQ, has many possessions, lives in a three-story mansion, or has been sober for twenty years.

After all, it is DAYTOP that makes "Honesty" feel so good about him or her-self-so self-confident and worthwhile, probably for the first time in his/her life. He/she may believe that he has no options outside of the group, and that is not a happy prospect for him/her.

So rather than receive the message, he/she attacks the messenger (in this case, myself) through use of the ad hominem attack.

Again, a very typical reaction for someone in an abusive and controlling group. After a certain point it seems that they are unable to refute the logical, objective arguments put to them and so he/she does what people often do in such a situation: they attack DAYTOP's critics personally. If one party to a dispute can discredit the other party in some way, then it is easier to to discredit that person's arguments. This is what the DAYTOPian trolls engage in time after time, argument for the sake of argument, and it is quite a pedantic and tiresome tactic.