31
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 04, 2005, 12:00:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-04 09:01 ]
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32
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 04, 2005, 11:55:00 AM »
Once again, you missed the point.
First, it wasn't a threat, and I challenge you to find any words of threat in my post. Here's a definition to help you: A threat is a declaration of an intention to inflict harm. Go ahead now. Tell me where my threat is.
What I did do was state an opinion of the value of your (or your anonymous brethrens) posts, and what could happen as a result.
I am not Hyde, and I too don't think anything is likely to happen.
I was merely pointing out that the only crime I have real evidence of is what looks to me like defamation.
Defamation, by definition of course, would make you not only a liar, but a really serious liar.
And (IMHO) that's all anyone here needs to really know about you.
It discredits everything you say on these posts and reveals am apparent robust lack of integrity.
No wonder you don't like Hyde. You never really got it!
[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-04 09:03 ]
First, it wasn't a threat, and I challenge you to find any words of threat in my post. Here's a definition to help you: A threat is a declaration of an intention to inflict harm. Go ahead now. Tell me where my threat is.
What I did do was state an opinion of the value of your (or your anonymous brethrens) posts, and what could happen as a result.
I am not Hyde, and I too don't think anything is likely to happen.
I was merely pointing out that the only crime I have real evidence of is what looks to me like defamation.
Defamation, by definition of course, would make you not only a liar, but a really serious liar.
And (IMHO) that's all anyone here needs to really know about you.
It discredits everything you say on these posts and reveals am apparent robust lack of integrity.
No wonder you don't like Hyde. You never really got it!
[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-04 09:03 ]
33
Hyde Schools / Don't identify yourself on this board! Hyde is lurking!
« on: October 04, 2005, 11:43:00 AM »
I was actually just trying to high-light how stupid this stream was. See you don't really know if Hyde is watching or not.
Now my guess is, some at Hyde might once in a while monitor this board, the same way corporations monitor stock-chat rooms, and for the same reason people google their own names.
Its really about being concerned about ones reputation, and from time to time dealing with applicable transgressions.
In this case, maybe someone else read what was reputed to be a student post, and called it to the attention of the Hyde folk.
Either way, to somehow not think anything here was public and Hyde would see it at some point seemed ridiculous. Certainly the student knew better!
Now my guess is, some at Hyde might once in a while monitor this board, the same way corporations monitor stock-chat rooms, and for the same reason people google their own names.
Its really about being concerned about ones reputation, and from time to time dealing with applicable transgressions.
In this case, maybe someone else read what was reputed to be a student post, and called it to the attention of the Hyde folk.
Either way, to somehow not think anything here was public and Hyde would see it at some point seemed ridiculous. Certainly the student knew better!
34
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 04, 2005, 01:54:00 AM »
You can put words in my mouth all you want, but that isn't what I said, nor what I was complaining about.
All I said was that seeds "seemed" abusive.
"Seems" is a word that tells the reader, Hey, the following is just my opinion. Fairly contrived for you to miss that.
Also since it is a statement of opinion, and in any event, not a statement that a crime was committed, it was also not defamatory....but I am presuming I might need to link you to another web site for more elaboration on that one.
Anyway, you said "Truth be told, these boards allow people to express their opinions and feelings"....well that's all I was doing, and I support your right to do it as well.
Now my backstory is that I was actually presuming Antigen had some gripes against Seeds, and having had one of my closest friends from their still experiencing the trauma of it 30 years later, was trying to be supportive.
My more relevant point was that I didn't understand Antigen's point in the context of the current topic. I was also wondering if Antigen was a Hyde alum.
Anyway, as an unmoderated forum, I suppose there are no rules, but it would help having any sort of discussion to stick to the facts, tell the truth, and try to stay on point. I promise to try and do the same! :smile:
[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-03 23:49 ]
All I said was that seeds "seemed" abusive.
"Seems" is a word that tells the reader, Hey, the following is just my opinion. Fairly contrived for you to miss that.
Also since it is a statement of opinion, and in any event, not a statement that a crime was committed, it was also not defamatory....but I am presuming I might need to link you to another web site for more elaboration on that one.
Anyway, you said "Truth be told, these boards allow people to express their opinions and feelings"....well that's all I was doing, and I support your right to do it as well.
Now my backstory is that I was actually presuming Antigen had some gripes against Seeds, and having had one of my closest friends from their still experiencing the trauma of it 30 years later, was trying to be supportive.
My more relevant point was that I didn't understand Antigen's point in the context of the current topic. I was also wondering if Antigen was a Hyde alum.
Anyway, as an unmoderated forum, I suppose there are no rules, but it would help having any sort of discussion to stick to the facts, tell the truth, and try to stay on point. I promise to try and do the same! :smile:
[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-03 23:49 ]
35
Hyde Schools / Would you recommend Hyde ?
« on: October 03, 2005, 09:41:00 PM »
Hard for anyone to recommend anything to you without know you and your family. The best they can tell you is why it was or wasn't a good fit for them. For me, it was awesome; for others, maybe not so much! There is definitely truth to what is written here, but all of it has to be put in context, the good and the bad, and that's a complicated puzzle--but any decision for an alternative school is likely going to be challenging, so get as much input as possible and make the best decision you can.
Good luck.
Good luck.
36
Hyde Schools / Don't identify yourself on this board! Hyde is lurking!
« on: October 03, 2005, 09:37:00 PM »
Don't believe this post either--the rantings of a paranoid mind no doubt!
We all completely alone in the privacy of our own intranet here. Post away. No one can see us. We are virtually invisible!!
We all completely alone in the privacy of our own intranet here. Post away. No one can see us. We are virtually invisible!!
37
Hyde Schools / article on the Hyde School
« on: October 03, 2005, 09:34:00 PM »
Actually, they were addidas. And it was a cape. I only wear the robe at home. :eek:
38
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 03, 2005, 09:30:00 PM »
Antigen, I actually don't undertstand your presence here. I have read a fairly involved report on Seeds. It was profoundly troubling to read, and I have no trouble saying that that program seemed abusive to all on its face.
But for whatever similarities this might bare, Hyde was fundamentally different. I won't go into what I think those are here and of course, some would differ, but this stream is about an allegation of rape, and an allegation of violation of reporting laws!
But for whatever similarities this might bare, Hyde was fundamentally different. I won't go into what I think those are here and of course, some would differ, but this stream is about an allegation of rape, and an allegation of violation of reporting laws!
39
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 03, 2005, 07:05:00 PM »
Ok, I am not sure I can make this any clearer, but let me try one last time. The last sentence of your post correctly cut and past the "Circumstances" requiring a report to be filed.
CIRCUMSTANCES
When, while acting in a professional capacity, they know or have reasonable cause to suspect that a child has been or is likely to be abused or neglected.
WHAT YOU DIDN'T (SEEM TO) DO WAS CLICK ON THE BOX THAT SAID INCLUDE "Definitions of Child Abuse and Neglect" (now would be the time to do that).
NOW LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF "ABUSE AND NEGLECT"....it says....
"Abuse or neglect means a threat to a child?s health or welfare by physical injury or impairment, by a person responsible for the child."
BY A PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD. The abuse or neglect must be BY A PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD. Not "BY" other students.
To make this perfectly clear, everytime you see the words "abuse and neglect" add the words BY SOMEONE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD.
Is that "reasonably clear" enough?
Anyway, FWIW, I believe falsely stating someone else has committed a crime is defamation. I also don't think it would be too hard to find out your name after getting your IP address from the webhost in discovery.
As always, I stand ready to be wrong....but you (or someone like you) made the accusation that Hyde had acted criminally by not reporting a serious crime. You still haven't shown they had any such duty, and you definitely haven't shown that if they did, they didn't make their report.
As such that makes you a liar and someone willing to defame someone else to bolster their own position. As such, I can see why you may have had trouble at Hyde.
All that, and I'm the one drinking the cool-aid? Maybe, but at least I haven't told any lies here.
Why not admit you were wrong, that you thought there was a disclosure obligation, but really don't know for sure, and moreso, that you really had no basis to know if it did exist whether or not Hyde complied?
Either way, this is stupidity wrapped in lunacy. Rapes happen. Hopefully not to you me or anyone we love or care about, but they are a sad fact of life. That one may have happened at Hyde means very little, and I seriously doubt you were in a position to have any real incite in the appropriateness of how it was handled.
CIRCUMSTANCES
When, while acting in a professional capacity, they know or have reasonable cause to suspect that a child has been or is likely to be abused or neglected.
WHAT YOU DIDN'T (SEEM TO) DO WAS CLICK ON THE BOX THAT SAID INCLUDE "Definitions of Child Abuse and Neglect" (now would be the time to do that).
NOW LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF "ABUSE AND NEGLECT"....it says....
"Abuse or neglect means a threat to a child?s health or welfare by physical injury or impairment, by a person responsible for the child."
BY A PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD. The abuse or neglect must be BY A PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD. Not "BY" other students.
To make this perfectly clear, everytime you see the words "abuse and neglect" add the words BY SOMEONE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD.
Is that "reasonably clear" enough?
Anyway, FWIW, I believe falsely stating someone else has committed a crime is defamation. I also don't think it would be too hard to find out your name after getting your IP address from the webhost in discovery.
As always, I stand ready to be wrong....but you (or someone like you) made the accusation that Hyde had acted criminally by not reporting a serious crime. You still haven't shown they had any such duty, and you definitely haven't shown that if they did, they didn't make their report.
As such that makes you a liar and someone willing to defame someone else to bolster their own position. As such, I can see why you may have had trouble at Hyde.
All that, and I'm the one drinking the cool-aid? Maybe, but at least I haven't told any lies here.
Why not admit you were wrong, that you thought there was a disclosure obligation, but really don't know for sure, and moreso, that you really had no basis to know if it did exist whether or not Hyde complied?
Either way, this is stupidity wrapped in lunacy. Rapes happen. Hopefully not to you me or anyone we love or care about, but they are a sad fact of life. That one may have happened at Hyde means very little, and I seriously doubt you were in a position to have any real incite in the appropriateness of how it was handled.
40
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 03, 2005, 12:56:00 PM »
Damn, you really want me to do your work for you, don't you. Ok, more web research responding to your comment:
"Yes, you are wrong. Teachers and therapists both are legally obligated to report child abuse. It is mandated by law in every state of our union."
DUH! Of course they are. What you have missed is that child abuse is NOT (in Maine) defined as child on child abuse.
Citation: Tit. 22, ยง 4002 says Abuse or neglect means a threat to a child?s health or welfare by physical injury or impairment, by a person responsible for the child.
Read the last clause again. This is not about Child on Child. Mandatory disclosures (in this case) only apply to abuse BY A PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD.
Do your own searches and see what else you can find at http://nccanch.acf.hhs.gov/general/lega ... es/search/
Again, maybe I am wrong, but all you have so far is naked accusations and unsupported assertions of the law.
To return this channel to its previous broadcasting format, I reiterate:
1. If you are going to claim you know the law, then give us a link. Otherwise, I believe you are confused about disclosure obligations.
2. If you find something, I am open to being wrong, but then you would still need to show:
a. it was in effect at the time of the alleged event (most disclosure laws seem to be post-80s) and
b. that nothing was ever reported.
Good luck. My hunch is, you simply chose the wrong example to try and make a point about Hyde having double standards.
And guess what, if that's your point, I won't disagree, as I am sure at times they have. No one claims Hyde was perfect. Far from it, they are a complex institution, working with complex people, in possibly one of the most challenging time of many of their (students) lives.
IMHO, they were better than anything out there FOR ME, and for MANY MANY MANY I know who attended there, including current members of the state department, doctors, lawyers, business execs, teachers, builders, military leaders and other highly successful people.
I am sorry it was not the same for you.[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-03 09:57 ]
"Yes, you are wrong. Teachers and therapists both are legally obligated to report child abuse. It is mandated by law in every state of our union."
DUH! Of course they are. What you have missed is that child abuse is NOT (in Maine) defined as child on child abuse.
Citation: Tit. 22, ยง 4002 says Abuse or neglect means a threat to a child?s health or welfare by physical injury or impairment, by a person responsible for the child.
Read the last clause again. This is not about Child on Child. Mandatory disclosures (in this case) only apply to abuse BY A PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD.
Do your own searches and see what else you can find at http://nccanch.acf.hhs.gov/general/lega ... es/search/
Again, maybe I am wrong, but all you have so far is naked accusations and unsupported assertions of the law.
To return this channel to its previous broadcasting format, I reiterate:
1. If you are going to claim you know the law, then give us a link. Otherwise, I believe you are confused about disclosure obligations.
2. If you find something, I am open to being wrong, but then you would still need to show:
a. it was in effect at the time of the alleged event (most disclosure laws seem to be post-80s) and
b. that nothing was ever reported.
Good luck. My hunch is, you simply chose the wrong example to try and make a point about Hyde having double standards.
And guess what, if that's your point, I won't disagree, as I am sure at times they have. No one claims Hyde was perfect. Far from it, they are a complex institution, working with complex people, in possibly one of the most challenging time of many of their (students) lives.
IMHO, they were better than anything out there FOR ME, and for MANY MANY MANY I know who attended there, including current members of the state department, doctors, lawyers, business execs, teachers, builders, military leaders and other highly successful people.
I am sorry it was not the same for you.[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-03 09:57 ]
41
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 03, 2005, 11:09:00 AM »Quote
On 2005-10-03 07:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It is good for all the facts to be out there both positive and negative"
Agreed! And I will definitely check in from time to time, but as I am but one, my opinions can be just as skewed as anyone else's, so hopefully more will join.
Looking forward to info on the obligation to disclose. I know it makes conceptual sense that it exist, but I think among the reason it may not is because (a) economic analysis says this can be highly inefficient (says one article I scanned this morning), (b) corporations (which control the government) have had a vested interest in protecting their reputations, and don't want to have to publicly report things that happen on their premises that could happen anywhere else.
That argument falls short, for me, when it comes to protecting the young, elderly and infirm (who are less able to protect themselves) but as I suggested, we don't know a lot of things here, including what the victim wanted and whether it was actually reported.
If you can find something, when did this allegedly happen? If there is a law, it should be easy to also then figure out if this applied at that time. I think most child protection stuff is much more recent (i.e., 80s and 90s). Assuming you are talking about something from the 70s, I am guessing that any disclose law you find was not in effect at that time.
42
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 03, 2005, 10:18:00 AM »
I don't think you understand what I am saying!
If you are going to claim something is a legal duty, then site your source, because I think you are wrong. I don't know for sure, and am open to being wrong, but I have now done a number of searches quickly got vague information from an attorney (free advice, only worth what I paid for it). :smile:
As a general rule, there is no legal duty for any person, corporation or entity to report crimes UNLESS there is a specific law to the contrary.
Given that, I would think such a law would be easy to find. I searched and found nothing. Please let me know what you find. (Then we can both apply for our honorary J.D.s and be done with it.)
POST EDIT: Forgot to state the obvious. Even assuming you are correct about the duty to report (which may be but I think not), how can anyone on this board to presume to have knowledge about what was or wasn't reported?!
This is crazy and I will likely stop posting here. My intent on this board was not to become Hyde's defender, but simply to be a voice that for me and MOST that I knew at Hyde over the years, their experience was among the most powerfully positive things to have ever happened in their (and their families) lives.
[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-03 07:28 ]
If you are going to claim something is a legal duty, then site your source, because I think you are wrong. I don't know for sure, and am open to being wrong, but I have now done a number of searches quickly got vague information from an attorney (free advice, only worth what I paid for it). :smile:
As a general rule, there is no legal duty for any person, corporation or entity to report crimes UNLESS there is a specific law to the contrary.
Given that, I would think such a law would be easy to find. I searched and found nothing. Please let me know what you find. (Then we can both apply for our honorary J.D.s and be done with it.)
POST EDIT: Forgot to state the obvious. Even assuming you are correct about the duty to report (which may be but I think not), how can anyone on this board to presume to have knowledge about what was or wasn't reported?!
This is crazy and I will likely stop posting here. My intent on this board was not to become Hyde's defender, but simply to be a voice that for me and MOST that I knew at Hyde over the years, their experience was among the most powerfully positive things to have ever happened in their (and their families) lives.
[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-03 07:28 ]
43
Hyde Schools / article on the Hyde School
« on: October 03, 2005, 10:08:00 AM »
(COPIED FROM A SEPARATE STREAM ON THIS TOPIC)
POTENTIAL PARENTS: I don't have the exact facts here, so my primary statement is, if you want literature on Hyde, read this article by Traub the economist/public policy wonk, who may or may not have a college degree, and who may or may not have an axe to grind that's either personal or socio-psycho-economic-political.
But also call Hyde and ask for copies of the videos of Hyde on 60 Minutes (twice?), 20-20, Barbara Walters (I think her son or daughter went there), and all the other national publicity from less questionable sources. Call and ask for the news stories on Hyde in the written press.
And then read them all.
Its not all flattering, but by and large, there has been a fair amount of prestigious news coverage on Hyde over the years.
And some of it actually reasonably captures the vision and the dream of what many individuals and families have experienced first hand.
POTENTIAL PARENTS: I don't have the exact facts here, so my primary statement is, if you want literature on Hyde, read this article by Traub the economist/public policy wonk, who may or may not have a college degree, and who may or may not have an axe to grind that's either personal or socio-psycho-economic-political.
But also call Hyde and ask for copies of the videos of Hyde on 60 Minutes (twice?), 20-20, Barbara Walters (I think her son or daughter went there), and all the other national publicity from less questionable sources. Call and ask for the news stories on Hyde in the written press.
And then read them all.
Its not all flattering, but by and large, there has been a fair amount of prestigious news coverage on Hyde over the years.
And some of it actually reasonably captures the vision and the dream of what many individuals and families have experienced first hand.
44
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 03, 2005, 10:04:00 AM »Quote
On 2005-10-03 06:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"but Hyde needs to change their policies so our kids will be safe.
When you ignore a violation of this magnitude, what are you telling the victim?
On your first point, do you have specific suggestions? Rapes occur, on occasion, in even the most prestigeous of New England prep schools. Anyway, reasonable safety precautions should be taken in all schools, but I am not sure which policies you are referring to.
On the second point, again, we are dealing with unsubstantiated allegations of the vaguest type here, but assuming there was no legal duty to report, who says this was ignored?
Ok, this is based solely on Law and Order which may not be the most authoritative basis, but the victim gets to decide how much they want to disclose and how to handle their trauma, and if they want to report it, the D.A. can decide if there is enough evidence to prosecute.
Sounds like someone spoke up in a school meeting, so if it was open there, and there was no other legal duty to report, it was at least out in the open, and whose to say how the alleged victim requested it be handled?
Rape is horrible. Many rape victims (ok, sorry still based on law and order), seem to never be able to talk about this.
Regardless of anything else, the interests of the victim would have to come first, not someone's perceived notion that not talking about this in front of the whole school somehow violates the school's policy of openness. (Let alone 30 years later, though again, no one has answered my request for details.)
I would also at this point cross-reference some of the posts here siting as abuse being forced to listen to inappropriate subject matter being brought up in front of kids....well, I can't think of many things more inappropriate and it seems to me that it may have been quite good judgement to deal with this privately.[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-03 07:05 ]
45
Hyde Schools / Rape at Hyde
« on: October 03, 2005, 09:49:00 AM »Quote
On 2005-10-03 06:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"HydeFan,
He/She is right about the fact that Hyde does have a legal duty to report crimes no matter who it happened to."
Hmmmm. While not an expert, I am not sure this is true. Based on some searches I just did, I learned:
In general, there is no duty for any private party to report a crime unless that state has passed a statute to the contrary.
There are probably mandatory reporting obligations for child sexual abuse in Maine http://www.smith-lawfirm.com/mandatory_reporting.htm
The reporting obligation (which for the model law came into effect in 1996) seems to be limited to situations where the abuse is by a parent or caretaker responsible for the childs welfare.
Anyway, I only spent 5 minutes searching on this so I could be wrong, and would be interested in what anyone else finds, but as far as I can tell, there was no obligation to report, and keeping the matter private (IF IT HAPPENED AT ALL!) was appropriate at the discretion of the family involved.