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Messages - spots

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241
The Troubled Teen Industry / Teen Help Programs
« on: June 25, 2003, 10:14:00 PM »
Well...after 3 drafts, I have been advised to drop it, because I'm arguing with an idiot (who basically hates her child).

Go to a seminar and expound; it will make you feel better.  Find your own forum, and keep paying the money.  

BTW, Anon, who are you?  and is your child still in WWASP (duh, of course).

242
The Troubled Teen Industry / Teen Help Programs
« on: June 25, 2003, 07:13:00 PM »
Reporters' personal bias exists.  Use your own judgement and common sense.  Analyze the piece and decide (that is, if you are not a product of the WWASP Believe Only What I Say school.

BTW, this link appeared to be a news piece, as posted to the forum.  In reality, it is a submission from a free-lance writer to the local Scottsdale, AZ newspaper.  It is basically a Letter to the Editor.  The accompanying photo and bio would "suggest" a retiree in a conservative community, giving a personal opinion...with absolutely no need for presenting a balanced story...sort of the quintessential single-mindedness the forum poster objects to.

243
The Troubled Teen Industry / Teen Help Programs
« on: June 25, 2003, 06:58:00 PM »
"
Quote

On 2003-06-25 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:


Spots: What is your real experience of the schools?"
****************
Other than a HUGE amount of interviews, emails, newspapers articles, etc.?..I received 11 weekly letters (of 28 weeks in WWASP with ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEED letters being written.  The child knew the majority of her emails were not reaching me, and it "pisses me off", she wrote.  An articulate and funny writer with an unusual adult perspective on the world (the quasi-Man in the Family during her mother's long single parenthood, even worried about family finances when she was 5), she wrote long letters, full of anecdotes and descriptions.  She appears unusually resistant and independent, still a Level II after nearly 8 months.

"Ever met graduates or parents of grads?"  
************************
Yes, probably 6 grads (lots more pull-outs!)  Even the self-proclaimed successful kids seem subdued and sad or non-analytical parrots, speaking WWASP-ese.  Most say they have been out for XXX months (like 14), seldom using the vague time frames we usually use (year and a half).  When I asked Tim Weiner about the graduates he interviewed, he responded that, yes, several seemed satisfied, but that an usually high number looked forward to a career in the military (that didn't make it into the newspaper article, did it). Noble career, but few entertain visions of being high-tech entrepeneurs or innovative retailers or manufacturers.  These kids don't seem to want to take chances.

"Is it because the parents see the toxicity of your relationship with your grandchild and you feel angry and willing to make up stories that other's needing help will believe?"

***************
Uh, excuse me?  #1, we love her greatly, and the feeling is mutual. What in God's name made you think our relationship with this kid is toxic? #2, I have not "made up" any story, ever, the fact being that I am as careful as a reporter fearing a libel suit.  #3, we had this child with us for a lot of last summer, and we had her and her sister for 2 weeks just days before she was sent away.  This kid was just 14 and needed better parenting, not punishment by strange self-proclaimed "fixers".  If I told you I worked for HP (which I did, long ago, but in Sales) and that I would promise to fix your laptop with a warranty for additional work if I screwed up, would you send it to me just because you can't find a competent tech repair person in your town?  Probably not.  How about if I sent you the names of all my clients (uh, family and neighbors) with their 93% satisfaction rate (both of the laptops I got working because the problem was the owners forgot the Caps Lock was on)?  Then would you send it to me?  Probably not.  How about if I charged you $100 an hour?  Must be OK, to be able to charge so much?

"What I see is you pushing yourself further and further away from any future relationship with your grandchild by the hatred I'm perceiving for her parents."

******************
'Ya know, I worry about that sometimes, about how long it will take her to "revert" back to the terrific loving smart sassy young lady she was, and how we will deal with it if she initially hates us for trying to thwart the "lifesaving" program that took her out of a normal world. It will be harder the longer she remains in the program, but I am certain her inate goodness will surface.  The risk is us losing her for some time (big risk, as we are older than most parents here) weighed against the gain of giving her the whole life with a normal maturation process she should experience, just like any other kid.  
**************  


"Each person has a right to their opinions, whether I agree or not.   Is your opinion fact-based or reading posts here and because you SO want to believe the worst that it has become your reality?"
*****************

My opinion is fact-based because I believe what was written to me.  A lot of it is simply anecdotal; she doesn't even realize some of the techniques being used on her and therefore doesn't complain...only tells the story.  And why, may I ask, would you think I "SO want to believe the worst that it has become your reality?"  I have absolutely nothing to gain by being negative about WWASP...except to accelerate it's inevitable downfall.  I'm not paying for it, and I don't have any guilt about using it.  I just want to see behavior modification become intensely scrutinized by authority/government/society...and I want this particular onnerous example to disappear before more American children suffer.  

I would like to see abuse addressed more on the psychological level; making things that Child Protective Services would pounce on in the suburbs become equally illegal in a BM setting.  However, physical abuse is easier to spot and prove...so let's work on that.  There seems to be a large body of evidence, just so fantastic that  the public finds it unbelievable.

Really, we're only talking here about 2500 or so families, out of the entire planet, who think this is a Good Thing. Should I care more about these children than I do about 2500 people in Bangledesh who drown when a ferry capsizes?  Well, besides being personally affected, this is a thing *I* can do something about. I will not walk away or be intimidated by name-callers.

244
The Troubled Teen Industry / Teen Help Programs
« on: June 25, 2003, 02:36:00 PM »
I have learned the hard lesson that no amount of enlightenment, cajoling, threatening, pleading...absolutely nothing will change the mind of one who "needs" to know WWASP is OK.  They've made this decision, and it stinks to high heaven, so they need a heavy dose of perfume to cover up the stench.  

The object of our attention has been held prisoner out of the country for nearly 8 months now, and we can no longer communicate with her even by edited letters.  I asked the US State Department field office to make an American Citizens Welfare Check on her (to let her know we were at least still out there and desperately caring about her welfare).  The consular staff person (suspect for a lot of reasons, particularly for his very cozy relationship with the local WWASP director) refused, after phoning the custodial parent at home in the US and ***asking her permission for a check***!!!  He suggested we simply wait it out until the parent ran out of money, and then work to re-establish our relationship with this child.

We are currently out of options, save for the closing of the facility by governments or lawsuits, etc.  The burning in my gut now feeds on the post-WWASP scene...not the one where terrified graduates behave themselves like robots for the first 2 or 4 months after returning home.  It is the time of older adolescence when the child finally gets a chance to tip-toe into independence, and goes hog-wild against everything the smug, "I saved your life" parent says.  It is the time 10 years down the road, when the child-turned-woman has her own family, and never or seldom visits Grandma.  It is the times at Christmas and 4th of July when the entire extended family traditionally gathers, and the "I saved your life" parent sits alone at home with her new spouse...or all alone because all the people known "from before"...family, friends, even neighbors, keep her far distant. It is the time during the middle of the night when the parent wonders if she really did the right thing, and there is no one close to comfort her and assure her because they all hate her for her abuse of her teen. It is a LIFE decision you made, Anonymous Parent, and it will haunt you forever.  

Hate corrodes the vessel that carries it...but it can make do in a pinch.  I grieve, I worry, I fear...but right now, I hate.

245
The Troubled Teen Industry / Spring Creek Lodge Montana Information
« on: June 18, 2003, 01:38:00 PM »
I am looking for any additional information on SCL.  I am preparing packets to send to every single state legislator in Montana, the governor (unfortunately, lame duck), Depts. of Education and Child Welfare.  Although my personal focus is on Casa by the Sea, SCL seems to be flying low under the radar.  It needs some heat brought upon it. If Costa Rica thinks WWASP is abusive, can Montana be far behind?

An article by a local reporter in the Missoula newspaper pointed out the need.  She phoned Thompson Falls for information on the school, and got a nifty quote from City Clerk Kathy Denke (perhaps not the proper spokesperson for the whole community) who answered the phone. Denke said the Spring Creek Academy students are well known around town, often volunteering in community cleanup days, participating in parades and other town activities.  "They are really very community-minded", she said.  "We don't have any problems with this school.  Whenever the students come and do things in the community, they are very well supervised."

Also, the article says, "In Montana, officials said they knew little of Spring Creek Lodge.  The state does not license private boarding schools, said Shirley Tiernan, chief of the training bureau in the state's Child and Family Services Division.  The school seems to be well regarded both by community leaders in Thompson Falls and parents of teen-agers attending Spring Creek.  

"I have never had a concern about her welfare there, never," said Dana Backiel of Washington state, whose 15-year-old daughter is a student and resident at Spring Creek Lodge.  "I've gotten to know a number of people on the staff there and I have no doubt they have my child's best interests at heart.  They are incredible people."  

Hhmmm..wonder how the reporter got a hold of Ms. Backiel's phone number?  

  If you have anything noteworthy to share, please email me at [email protected].  Thx.

246
The Troubled Teen Industry / Lon of Strugglingteens.com is in it for the money
« on: June 16, 2003, 02:05:00 PM »
This post was sent to the Struggling Teens forum by me a couple of days ago, in response to the never-ending "You've done such a great and loving thing for your child by sending him away to get help" postings. It appeared, but was deleted by moderator Jena when she checked the next day.  I have received one private message question about it from a reader, which brings up something interesting.  This is about the 3rd deleted post (out of 10 I've made) and I am AMAZED that these ST parents don't seem to have a clue about WWASP, or any such facilities or programs.
***********************************************

Dear Sue,
 
Your post, copied below, has been deleted from the "Parenting Issues" forum on Strugglingteens.com because it is hostile and also contains names and/or locations of specific programs.
 
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
 
Thanks
 
Jena Martin
Board Moderator
 
 
Sue Kolbo
Member
Member # 3362

  posted June 12, 2003 10:36 PM                        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I cried tonight...first time in a couple of months. I went into the bathroom and husband ("Grandpa") found me sitting on the side of the tub with a towel over my head, crying. Sometimes it overwhelms me, and I wish I were dead.

This is a support forum, but Jena has made it clear that it is not a support forum for parents/grandparents in my situation. I have a child in an internationally controversial program...one who has not spoken to her mother in the 7+ months since she was dropped off in Mexico, one who tries to teach herself out of books without any teacher, one who still cannot talk to *anyone* except in "rap" group circles, one who gets 30 daily minutes drill running around the interior courtyard inside the 24-foot walls for physical exercise outside, one who lives in a world without parents, friends, peers, world news, one who somehow knows that she is in it for at least another year....

She has been cut off from us, her grandparents, because we are not "positive and supportive of the Program", and so she exists in this netherworld of random rules and punishments meted out by kids barely beyond her in age and length of prison term. She is in **** , and so are we.

This is to all you thoughtful, caring, desperate, searching parents who investigate, visit, check references, and communicate with either your children or their therapists on a regular basis:

Be careful what you preach. When you are in the grocery check-out line, when you are waiting in the Jiffy Lube lounge, when you are speaking at a luncheon with other parents about how successful your child has been in your chosen placement: to every potential parent with a problem child, whether a real problem or simply adolescence, your advice is powerful. The majority of parents with problems will first check the Internet. They will be bombarded with marketing...every Google search for Teen Help, troubled teen, teens in crisis, etc....will return an 800 number for a company who promises to fix *all* ills. This same company has had numerous facilites closed, most recently in Costa Rica, for abuse. There is no horseback component, no hiking in the mountains, no mingling with local culture, no safe and loving environment. This is a cult of brainwashing which will return to you a compliant child, after much time and much money spent. What the rest of that child's life holds is a crap shoot.

I read here and take some solace in the care each of you seems to bring to your child's problems. Please remember that not everyone is so involved. Temper your enthusiasm for your child's successes when talking to others, for they may not be so diligent as you. A whole different "solution" is hammering at their door. Please don't be responsible for sending another teenager to such a fate. Thank you.
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Posts: 10 | From: Red Bluff, CA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged |

247
The Troubled Teen Industry / Jamaica No Problem..says Tranquility Bay
« on: June 15, 2003, 07:10:00 PM »
Quote:

The paper provides a message board and invites folks to "Talk Back" about this article. There is only one post which reads:



Posted by: Lou St. John  

Posted on: Monday, June 09, 2003 at 12:22:33 AM  

Location: Malvern, Jamaica  

Occupation: company director  

Comments: If "the cops on patrol did not actually go on the compound" how on earth do they know whether there are problems there or not. Maybe Jamaicans for Justice should drop in unexpectedly, or Amnesty International.

**************************************************
Interestingly, I read this article directly from the Jamaican Observer and sent the following Letter to the Editor the next day.  It appears not to have been published.

Gentlemen:

Costa Rica has shown the world a fine example of how compassion can work
within the law, written and moral, to close down a school such as Dundee
Ranch Academy.  The degrading, psychologically damaging, and downright cruel
methods of this behavior modification facility are an insult to all
civilized societies who care for their children.  But where were the few
teens sent who could not escape?  Tranquility Bay, Jamaica...a notoriously
brutal "school" whose modalities are well-documented, but which continues to
thrive within the Jamaican nation.  If this is the tenor of Jamaican justice
(look the other way, but take the money), perhaps I should re-think any
vacation plans I may have had to this idyllic island paradise.

Sue Kolbo
Rivergait Ranch
Red Bluff

************************************************

Since a large economic factor for Jamaica is their tourism, a "boycott" would seem to have some power.  Can anyone come up with suggestions on how to "hit 'em where it hurts"?

248
The Troubled Teen Industry / New York Times Executives Resign
« on: June 06, 2003, 08:44:00 PM »
Quote

On 2003-06-06 11:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous, you said: "Spots.  I'm sorry you feel your grand daughter is being abused in some way...Does your granddaughter WANT to be rescued?"

How would I know?  All communication coming and going is edited.  I read between the lines of the 30% of what she wrote us that made it through, and, yes...she wants out...and no, not because she's a little shit who objects to any rules.  This is a hateful environment, meant to terrify adolescents into complete submission.  

You said: "Freedom of speech."  

You enjoy freedom of speech.  WWASP internees do not.  This is a basic right, and not to be suspended even if your kid refused to come home from school when he was supposed to, or decided to rebel and fail his sophomore year.

You said: "...Mr. Weiner's... unprofessionalism in not researching another side of the story before writing it."

He did research it, very thoroughly.  I know he traveled all over Mexico for more than 4 weeks, and devoted nearly full time to this article.  In fact, he did include some quotes from "satisfied" participants.

   
You said: "the abuse of power (was) from a local government official" INFORMING AMERICAN CITIZENS OF THEIR RIGHTS CONCERNING FALSE IMPRISONMENT?  

You said: "The abuse was not from staff, but from the 30 students who trashed the place".  TRASHING THE PLACE DOES NOT FALL UNDER MY DEFINITION OF ABUSE.

You said: The abuse came from a former director who was asked to leave or be fired for her incompetence. YOU HAVE ALREADY SUGGESTED YOUR RESEARCH ON THIS ISSUE IS SHALLOW.  READ AMERBLY KNIGHT'S LETTER IN ITS ENTIRETY.  SHE WAS NOT INCOMPETENT; SHE WAS FRUSTRATED THAT HER ATTEMPTS AT REFORM WERE THWARTED.  SHE WAS REPLACED AS DIRECTOR BY THE 26YO SON OF A WWASP ORIGINAL INVESTOR WITH AN ECONOMICS DEGREE FROM BYU.  

You said: "Very FEW parents choose a specialty boarding school first.  Like me, they may have tried counseling, parenting classes, scare tactics (visiting a juvenile center), attempted to talk with them, given them our love, sent them to relatives for a change of environment....plus much more, and nothing worked or got worse."  WRONG.  WWASP PARENTS SEEM TO TAKE ACTION SOONER, WITHOUT THE HORRENDOUSLY DRAINING AND EXPENSIVE VISITS TO FACILITIES, ED CONSULTANTS, 1000'S OF DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES CONSIDERED.  ALL RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTERS ARE A CRAP-SHOOT, BUT LOOKING INTO CREDENTIALS, MEETING "THE REAL STAFF" YOUR KID WILL LIVE UNDER, TALKING WITH OTHER STUDENTS, PHONING YOUR KID NO MORE THAN 2 WEEKS INTO A PROGRAM, WORKING ON THE WHOLE FAMILY *AS A WHOLE FAMILY*, NOT IN DIFFERENT CANNED SEMINARS..IS IMPERATIVE.  AS A PSYCHIATRIST WAS QUOTED IN THE NYT ARTICLE, TOO MANY PARENTS TAKE MORE CARE SELECTING A NEW CAR THAN A NEW HOME FOR THEIR CHILDREN.  

You said: "The reason I chose a WWASP program was because it's based on results, not time,...A FUNDAMENTAL CONCEPT, MEANING THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS? "...with a positive peer culture." AM I NOT CORRECT IN ASSUMING THE DAILY "GROUP" IS A CIRCLE WHEREIN EACH KID READS DEEP SECRET THOUGHTS WRITTEN THE NIGHT BEFORE AND THE OTHER DYSFUNCTIONAL KIDS GET TO TEAR IT APART?

My family is successful, and it's been a couple of years since my kid has been home. I AM TRULY GLAD YOU HAVE HAD SUCCESS.

...Oh, and I'm going to owe Ginger $$$ for bandwidth VBG.  I'll never change this mother's mind, but I need to vent.  If it were just the adult's differing opinion...too bad the kids suffer in the process.

249
The Troubled Teen Industry / New York Times Executives Resign
« on: June 06, 2003, 12:20:00 PM »
I spoke with Tim Weiner several times as he gathered information for his initial article.  I provided him with source material (about 6" worth!).  He used this as a starting point in a few directions, but NEVER quoted my stuff...only went directly to the source for an interview.  Mr. Weiner, based in Mexico City and covering Mexico and Central America as a Times staffer, also produced an excellent piece in the same May 9 edition about Bahia de Kino, a very tough but supportive and successful school.  How come you're not complaining about THAT, Ms. Anonomous?  Mr. Weiner has two Pulitzer Prizes, one about internal workings in the CIA, and he said he had never worked with such a difficult and hard-to-break-into subject.  He has also never been sued as a reporter, and went to great lengths to only print what he could support with testimony...even stating specifically which interviews were by phone.  

On the strugglingteens.com website, there is a Letter to the Editor by Donna Hamel about her "success" with Casa by the Sea.  She has revised it recently, (along with a couple of "Gee, the Program is great for my kid" support letters written by compliant parents only days after the Dundee mess hit the fan) and complains Mr. Weiner spoke to her and her now-released daughter at length, yet quoted only the most sensational snippet.  Well...her daughter (quoted) told how she was Level 4 and instantly demoted to Level 1 for hugging a crying companion, lonely at Thanksgiving.  WWASP punishes compassion, and rewards obedience.  I think this is pretty darn sensational too...and I remember that incident more than endless vague exortations from Mrs. Hamel about building self-esteem and taking responsibility for actions, etc.  Show me platitudes and show me anectdotes...I'll believe the anectdotes, especially if I KNOW they're researched and true.  Mrs. Hamel also blathers on about The Director (Dace Goulding) never being contacted by Mr. Weiner, even though he set up a phone interview appointment.  Mrs. Hamel believes the director's statements to her about setting up this arrangement, saying he is a wonderful fellow and her daughter just loves him and he has very nice parents himself.  Mr. Weiner talked with me by phone just after he sent his article to the NYT for editorial review before printing.  He stated he could not get an interview with the director.  Now, who do you believe...NY Times reporter, 2 Pulitzers, tons on the line here...or a WWASP staffer who also says he never met the High Impact torture victim or his parents, the incident which closed down this facility?  This director lies like a rug, and you want me to disregard the newspaper reporter with an entire career of integrity behind him?  

BTW, after walking a tightrope about forwarding negative information to my daughter who has incarcerated our grandaughter in Casa for 7 months now, I emailed the Times piece without comment.  That unleashed a violent tirade of email attacks on me for not supporting the Program and undermining the brilliant future this child faces once she is allowed to speak to peers, finally receive a monthly phone call from home, put in more expensive time learning how to berate peers in "group", and "building her self-esteem".  We are permanently cut off from her, at least until she is 18.  Drinking the Kool-Aid, this parent has lost reason on forging her daughter's future.  

Believe what the newspapers say if the only other option is to blindly follow what WWASP wants you to know.  The antidote to secrecy is exposure.  Hopefully, the bright light will save new children from years of anguish.

250
The Troubled Teen Industry / Urgent Assisstance needed
« on: May 27, 2003, 07:56:00 PM »
We are also in a position where we cannot contact a relative (grandaughter) who is being held at her mother's request (and money).  We have used our option of asking for a State Department welfare check (since the child is in Mexico) which will at least tell us how she is and let her know we are so concerned.  Stateside, you don't have this option.  

You can contact a lawyer and ask about the possibility of having a court-appointed guardian ad litem for her, who is an attorney *for the child* in a questionable situation.  I asked about this in conjunction with a custody case when we first started into this insanity, and I believe that the ad litem attorney is appointed - sort of like a public defender for the kid - by Child Protective Services or something.

Be advised that a custody case retreiving a child from WWASP has been running between $75K and $100K. With the current state of flux going on right now in WWASP, my advice would be to sit tight and see if the whole thing collapses.  In any case, most attorneys would grant you a preliminary office call to talk about your options, often at little or no charge.  Your next problem, if WWASP does fall (and we are worrying about this), is "what happens next?"

251
The Troubled Teen Industry / How Do Survivors Feel About Their Parents?
« on: May 25, 2003, 11:20:00 PM »
How are things when you get home?  If you come home "early" (pre-graduation), is it because your parents finally figured out what was happening, or something else (like running out of money)?  I can imagine eventual estrangement if the parents knew or suspected the conditions were bad, but kept kids in the program anyway.  However, I'm surprised at how little anger I really see in survivors. What percentage of parents knew and thought tough love was a good thing, and how many simply didn't know details?  Before the internet, or even now, it is hard to find info such as is on this board. Did you all live in fear of "return"?  How long before you begin to think logically; how long before the brainwashing "washes out"?

Basically, to those who are now free, how do you feel?

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