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Messages - Stripe

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211
The Seed Discussion Forum / FEAR ITSELF
« on: May 27, 2005, 01:49:00 PM »
Dear Mary,

I too have felt your rush of anger, hate, and resentment; feeling just sick about the time and life that was stolen from me.  

When I read postings by seed supporters I just get sick to my stomach - because they still refuse to acknowledge the damage that this kind of programming causes.  The fact is, you may never get an apology from the actual people who hurt you. In fact, I would be shocked if that happen. Other supporters, not this LeeAnn, will tell you it was  based on "good intentions" but that does little to help you get through your shit right now.  

Aren't you glad though, that no matter what the conditions were of your leaving, that you did leave?  I got "kicked out" of a subsequent seed/religious cult.  I felt so lost, so friendless then.  Good seelding/christians refused to talk to me or acknowldge me on any meaningful level - besides telling me they would "pray for me..." I was a poor misguided soul trying to make it in the world without group think.  It broke my heart; I lost my best friend because I was so fucked up myself trying to live the good seed life.  Two young women in incredible pain and doubt - our friendship (which started when we were 13) was ruined by the seed.  

Yeah, I can surely understand and appreciate your fuck you all attitude towards these theives. It tempers with time. I was so fucking angry last fall when I figured out what had happened to me.  I spent 30 freaking years trying to undo someting I never really understood. Now I do get it.  I get that is was a cult, that it thrived on mind control programming and that for whatever reason, I caved to pressure.  

And, like you, I could not stay true to the regime. Probably the reason they gave you no reason for kicking you out was because you were thinking for yourself.  They knew they were losing their hold on you and to give you that information on the way out would, in their twisted ways of thinkning, somehow damage the greater good - The Seed. I would guess that anyone who was formally kicked out of The Seed was infact, thinking for themselves.  That's the threat. You did nothing but use your god-given brain.  Fuck them.

Raging and yelling - that's what this forum is for - and I think we all go through these stages, greiving for the time and life we lost because of our involvement.

And by the way, I think the whole boy/girl separation did cause some very weird sexual tension in people.  It seemed to force us to adopt same-sex contact as a release for our natural sexual energy at those early ages.  

Feel free to PM me if you want to.

212
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Free a Child from a Straight Inc spawn, Growing Together, In
« on: May 27, 2005, 12:06:00 PM »
My advice?  Don't do it. I am now 30 + years past my experience in The Seed in Ft.Lauderdale, FL.  These programs are not what they appear to be.

If you want to break your child's spirit and psyche, a place like Growing Together is the surest way to do so.  You may see a few glowing reports in the local newspaper about program "successes" but understand, there is more harm than help to be found there.

I spent my high school years essentially shut out from all normal activity and contact with other teens.  They called me a zombie...  I was afraid to talk to anyone for fear of being sent back and having to start the program over.  It also made me psychologically vulnerable to successive abusive relationships.  And, I have seen that very fact with three people sent to The Seed at the same time I was.  All four of us have had some very difficult times as a result to the "programming" we were exposed to. We are still friends 30 years later - but man they have been some very tough years.

I don't see any difference in the methodolgy used by these programs even after thrity years.  If the method is not different, the result can't really be different, either. What else could be expected when the primary methodology of the programming is to break down the child's will and "rebuild" using their "tools" which are really mind control techniques.  

Once it is drummed into your head that you are a bad person (they used to tell us we were full of shit when our input to the group discussion waivered from the formulaed "rap") you figure out that the only way to get out,get back home or earn more privileges is to admit and proclaim the wretchedness of your being.  That negative programming has a way of staying with you. Especially if you are a young teen.  

I was 15 when my parents bought the "your child will end up dead, insane or in jail" line that was The Seed's mantra to parents looking for help.  

This place is not the only resource out there.

Would you want to lose your ability to chose what you wanted in life? To have all of your decisions made for you and to always have a need to have the decision you do make confirmed or approved by others and still be riddled with self-doubt at the same time?    

Parents usually want to raise independent, thinking children.  These kind of programs take away your ability (as a parent)  to impress your life values, morals and lessons upon your own child.  Why give up that responsibity to a program of people who cannot function outside of the strict confines of their own program world?

If you do go speak to them, remember this:  Their selling techniques will cause you to doubt your ability to handle this problem and to create fear in your heart about the fate of your child.  If you do go talk tothem, resolve before you go, not to make any placement decision. They will try to get you to commit the chid right then - but don't do that. Take time to reflect on your decision, as your decision will have life long effects on your child.  

If my child had legal problems - arrests for drugs, juvenile problems, mental health etc., despite the hardship that would present, this is not the alternative I would choose.  

It is expensive.  You will undoubtedly lose control of the direction, depth, and trust your child has in his or her relationship with you.

Sometimes kids behave like asses, but they do grow out of it.  Some take longer than others.   In my opinion, your money might be better spent on a private family therapist. If you have limited resources, check the local United Way for a sliding fee scale family therapist.

If your child is actually addicted to some kind of drug, and you can get a trusted physician to give you an unbiased, medically-based opinion of that fact - I'd seek medical help first. stay away from the "cure all" approach they will offer - Test them  Ask exactly what kind of problems they are medically qualified to deal with. Ask to see their credentials.  And if the child is addicted, then he or she needs to be in a real hospital medical setting.  Not in a punishment-base program.  
 

You can send me a personal message if you want to exchange more information privately.

213
The Seed Discussion Forum / Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
« on: May 19, 2005, 11:18:00 PM »
Hey Anon,

I'm with you on this one. What kind of people scam and sell like this to create their own cultette ?  Creepy people. And this guy Perloff gives me the creeps.  I admit that I have never in my life spoken to him or his wife - but I do know a lizard when I see one.

214
The Seed Discussion Forum / Check this out New 2006 spending programs that result in for
« on: April 22, 2005, 12:49:00 PM »
This kind of early mental health screening only serves to mark a child for life.  What have we learned about labeling people from our programs?  Only that we strive to embrace that lable and make vain attempts to fix the problems associated with the labels ...even when the problem do not really exist.    

I don't have a problem with social services that treat real mental health problems, but that's not what the 2006 intiatves do.  Instead, it forces employees of institutions receiving  federal funds to essentially become agents of the police.

Call me paranoid if you want, but how can fixing something that is not broken be good policy?

The likely result of programs like this is that there will now be "official" records on people that will only serve to harm, limit, and mark them. HIPPA laws won't help.  Once a person is diagnosed as addicted, border line addicted, etc., that record will follow them with all of the ensuing consequences.

Thanks, but no thanks.

215
The Seed Discussion Forum / Check this out New 2006 spending programs that result in for
« on: April 15, 2005, 01:19:00 AM »
Certainly actively speaking out against government expendiutres that I personally see as wasteful and bad is a great idea and when the opportunity presents itself, I do.

And I don't disagree that public health should be proactive in some respects, but I am not looking to support the wholesale violation of privacy rights when the actual threat is not nearly as severe as the remedy proposed.

Perhaps this is just another Bush code "brown"?    

Does any one know of legitmate organizations I can support finacially that will lobby against these kinds of measures?  Looking to actively work against this kind of policy funding is not going to be a very popluar stand to take.    [ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-04-14 22:20 ][ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-04-14 22:21 ]

216
The Seed Discussion Forum / Check this out New 2006 spending programs that result in for
« on: April 14, 2005, 10:38:00 AM »
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/pub ... _amer.html


Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA)?Screening, Brief Intervention, Referral, and Treatment (SBIRT): +$5.8 million. This initiative supports one of the Strategy?s goals to intervene early with nondependent users and stop drug use before it leads to dependence. This initiative will improve treatment delivery to achieve a sustained recovery for those who are dependent on drugs. SBIRT is designed to expand the continuum of care available to include screening, brief interventions, brief treatments, and referrals to appropriate care. By placing the program in both community and medical settings such as emergency rooms, trauma centers, health clinics, and community health centers, the program can reach a broad segment of the community.




Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA)?Access to Recovery: +$50.8 million. Through Access to Recovery (ATR), the President is committed to providing individuals seeking alcohol and drug treatment with vouchers to a range of appropriate community-based services. The fiscal year 2006 budget proposes $150 million for ATR, an increase of $50.8 million over the fiscal year 2005 enacted level. By providing vouchers, ATR promotes client choice, expands access to a broad range of clinical treatment and recovery support services, and increases substance abuse treatment capacity. Vouchers may be used to access various services, including those provided by faith- and community-based programs.


The first priority of the Strategy is to stop drug use before it starts. It should be obvious that robust efforts involving community action and public education are central to an effective drug control program?one that seeks to denormalize drug use by creating a climate of public intolerance toward the drug-using behavior that all too often leads to addiction.




[ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-04-14 07:40 ]

217
The Seed Discussion Forum / Raps
« on: April 13, 2005, 11:01:00 AM »
We got one small styrofoam cup of soup with the baloney sammich at dinner. I'm gessing it was was a 4 or 6 oz. cup. What I can't remember is the method of delivery? Did we get to walk to the back of the room to pick it up? Probably not.  Was it passed from person to person down the row?  Surely they did not hand it to us one at a time.  Isn't is strange I can remeber the tastes and smells of the place but I can't remember how it came ot me?

Hey, I know from reading here that the people who made the food and volunteered time and resources had their hearts in the right place and could not have know how their generosity was twisted into something else.  With the right kind of planning just about anything can be used as a weapon.  

Food for thought.... :idea:

218
The Seed Discussion Forum / Raps
« on: April 12, 2005, 07:02:00 PM »
That's what happens when you edit twice...sorry 'bout that.

219
The Seed Discussion Forum / Raps
« on: April 12, 2005, 06:55:00 PM »
Yikes.  Welcome to the dark vicious circle that was my mind/world in the spring of 1973... seed raps were much more simplistic but still incredibly manipulative.  

On the 10 to 10 Program without the beneft of a watch, I think it went like this:

Arrive before 10:00 AM- morning group till 12:00 (2 smokes 11 & 12) lunch at 12:00 and maybe a "lite" rap during lunch, a song or 2, exercises till about 2:00. (butts at 12, 1 and 2)  2:00 - 5:00 pm separate boy/girl raps. (butts at 3,4 and 5).  Reconvene in the big room for a boloney sammich, some beef barley soup and some fake koolaid, maybe a trip to the bathroom.  (butt at 6) About 6:30 the old comers start arriving and at 7:00 the evening sign/prayer rap till 10:00 PM. (Butts at 7,8,9,and 10).Then its another hour of leaving and travel to the old comer's house for some good food and more talking, moral inventory and maybe a shower. And of course, more butts - but this time not on the hour.   Then back up at a reasonable hour (thank god) to get back there before 10:00 AM....and do it all again till you get it right and they let you go home.  When you still have to come back 10 to 10.

Looking back on it, I can see that I really didn't learn so much as I gave-in to the pressure and said what I had to say to get out. Boy was I ever thoroughly manipulated.

I'm sorry it's still happening to kids now.  No one deserves that kind of treatment. I wish I had the strength the to walk out -or yell over to my parents on the Friday Night Open meeting to PLEASE take me out. Or quit. It never occurred to me to just quit.

It seems likely that most of the poloticos and celebrity-set who push these programs might only see the "perfect" (read programmed) end result.  It's that day-in, day-out crushing, mind-numbing manipulation that gets conveniently overlooked in the drive for a drug-free amerikan culture.

Loss of life by suicide and extreme behavioral reactions to the treatment model are, I guess, the costs our society is willing to pay.  That is, until it's the child of some influential person, then by God, the program has to change.  

BTW, does anybody know what happend to Jeb Bush's "drug addicted" daughter who was making such a splash during his first term?  Was she ever put in one of these programs - or is the nitty, gritty synanon/seed/straight treatment model reserved only for the have-nots?

What about W's kids, Jenna & Barbara?  That underage drinking and drugging of the first term seems to be okay for those girls but not for the rest of american kids.  Looks really similar to the Bush "culture of life " agenda we watched play out just recently...
  [ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-04-12 16:00 ]

220
The Seed Discussion Forum / Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
« on: April 10, 2005, 07:22:00 PM »
One final post then I'll leave Mr. Perloff to lick his wounds.

Unconditional Growth is a for profit corporation.  It seeks donations to pay for scholarships and, among other things, rents.  Ooops, they forgot.  Unconditinoal Growth operates from the same space and address as Perloff's law firm, where he is not actively practicing law. He's such a putz he can't even get a new email address.  How about [email protected]  I hear Yahoo lets you have email for free..

What does it feel like to be a lizard whose tail just got ripped off?? Ouch.

221
The Seed Discussion Forum / Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
« on: April 10, 2005, 04:15:00 PM »
Anything that fosters dependence and sells what is really innate knowldge can't be good.

222
The Seed Discussion Forum / Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
« on: April 10, 2005, 02:28:00 PM »
Anon wrote:
"So which are you? Are you someone who desires your own happiness or someone desiring the unhappiness of others?"

Am I to understand that in your view - this is an either-or proposition? That I can only live my life desiring my own happiness and if not,  I must therefore desire the unhappiness of others? I'm trying reconcile this with formulaed reasoning I've learned and I just can't.  

Your philosphy, and I use that term loosely, supposes that a person can only be one or the other. I don't see this as being any different from the dogma of the seed, the dogma or christianity or the dogma of any other religion that I know about. I'll admit I don't know all there is to know about world religions, but your statement smacks of intolerance and prorammed mind set.
 
Following your reasoning has the effect of locking a person into one camp or the other, which is, if I understood you, the exact place your exercise was intended to remove the exercisor from.  Badly written by me, but I think you can get my point.  

What I do agree with is that it is beneficial to change one's perspective and look at the world through a larger lense at every given opportunity - especially when it is difficult or painful to do so. It's not just people who see their lives as diminishd by association with seed dogma who benefit from a new perspective.  

Frankly, living for my own happiness seems like a pretty shallow, selfish goal or life purpose to me.  Likewise, living to bring unhappiness to others is also shallow and selfish. Yours seems to be a no-win proppostion that results in emotional and energy enslavement on either side of the equation.

What I find most appalling about this unconditional love bullshit,or whatever it's called, is that the purveyors of this nonsense are still engaging in behavior that seeks to draw life force from its disciples or followers and redirect it to leaders own personal benefit and gain - under the guise of desiring the happiness of others.  What aboslute and total unmitigiated bullshit.  They would do less harm and have my respect  if they stood out on street intersections panhandling money from the temporarily trapped drivers.  At least we would all know exactly what they were doing and we could make an intelligent, unemotional choice to support or not support them.  

The premise of their program is dishonest and that, my fellow traveller, is why I detest their action on its face and react so vehimently against it.  

This life-energy stealing must be stopped and I for one, will continue to call it as I see it and take my lumps for speaking out against it.


"Stupidity is the basic building block of the universe." -- Frank Zappa

223
The Seed Discussion Forum / Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
« on: April 08, 2005, 10:44:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-07 14:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I hope to God he never sees this....





"


No, this guy and his wife need to see this.  They need to see just how fucked up the seed programming was.  They need to know the entire seed legacy, not just a version that allows them to sleep peacefully on their lavendar scented pillows every night.  They need to know that the program they supported and fostered all those years was not all goodness and light and did not bring peace and happiness to the community.

Instead of creating another money-grubbing, soul-stealing scheme, they need to be actively seeking forgivness and making real, verifiable sacrifices with their time and energy.

If what they have to offer is so freaking great and so freaking valuable and so freaking important to the betterment of mankind- WHY NOT GIVE IT AWAY??   :scared:

Oh yeah, that's right - program answer: nothing of any value is free....

Any religious teachings of any value in this world are free.  

 


[ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-04-08 19:47 ]

224
The Seed Discussion Forum / Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
« on: April 08, 2005, 10:22:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-07 12:08:00, GregFL wrote:

"Hey, I am out of the country, but looking this over I am just grinning to myself.


<




Someone post something on his message board and politely suggest he should Take a break from his new group and come over and talk to his old devotees.  here is the link...



http://www.unconditionalgrowth.com/forum/index.php




Greg,

I tired to get on the forum but one must be registered to post and I just could not bring myself to do that- even with a fake name.  I guess web-based sprituality is not an anonymous event.  
MMMM, these rocks feel good...

Stripe

225
The Seed Discussion Forum / Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
« on: April 07, 2005, 12:18:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-06 21:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Here, here!  I'm steering clear of Cindy's Reiki tentacles!  Does anyone remember what her nickname was?  I'm trying to figure out if I'm confusing her with someone else. Can you tell me some more about John's "corporate money sheltering" work?



Thanks for your candid response! "


Just go to http://www.sunbiz.com (I thinkit's a dot com) and search under Registerd Agents unsing PErlmans name.  that should hook you up with most of the money trail. Also start with the name The Seed, and follw that as well.

I know Greg and Ginger did this before, maybe they can direct you to a pre-existing thread.  [ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-04-07 09:19 ]

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