Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - SMiamiPimp

Pages: 1 [2]
16
The Seed Discussion Forum / Against My Better Judgement
« on: August 21, 2005, 02:54:00 AM »
Here is what I felt I missed by not graduating from the Seed. In reading this thread, I have the opinion if I had completed the program, I would have had a stamp of approval/completion from the Seed but not what I intuitively recognised I did not have and I think I got in AA. Before I get flamed, I am only saying this applies to me, not everyone.

I got alot from the Seed but what I got was not complete. The Seed did not really provide a understanding the process of addiction and recovery long term. I stead I was told the Seed was the only solution. "Get it at the Seed, our way or return to addiction hell". Addiction is so cunning and relapse can be working in the background if the proper maintence work is not done.

This last time in AA I spent alot of time reading AA an other literature, talking to those who I felt really intellectaully understood the of the disease and the solution. Then the issue only becomes doing the upfront work then keeping maintence in place to overt a relapse. Also there is a community in AA that makes basically no requirments on members and you cant get thrown out.

When I came out of the Seed I was able to break the cycle of addiction, and I had alot of tools but no real depth of understanding. This could be because I never completed the program. But still, in AA I feel I have that, but it would not be complete without the literature and there was not literature in the Seed nor was any reference made to the AA literature that the Seed program was bootleged from.  

I knew I was missing something when I left the Seed. The Seed said they were the only ones that had it. No one explained even remotely why that was said. This was truth and falsehood mixed, untreated addiction often does return. Spending more time in treatment at the Seed would help. But not becuase the Seed was magic or the only source of help with addition. I wish they had referred me to AA since IMO they were bootleg AA. This "we are the only way mentality" was cultish and a distortion.

All said and done, I am still grateful for the Seed but I some negative stuff did stick with me as a result of my being there. This forum is helping me root that out.

This Form is awesome.

17
The Seed Discussion Forum / Against My Better Judgement
« on: August 21, 2005, 02:15:00 AM »
Thanks that very helpful, good response.

Let me take some time and think about it. In particular what I got from the Seed that did not work...also what did work. Those were crazy times and that was a crazy place.

The process of terminating relationships that I deem negative is definitely there and I am currently looking at that as a problem for me. It became a easy solution...but it overlooked the idea of negotating and tolerance in relationships. Also it presents the idea of the world is as black and white, good or bad which is not realistic. It doesnt present, everyone has has thier own thing going (including me) and it is a regalar part of life to learn to deal with it. All peaple including myself have good and bad traits. Also the way I handle my side of the relationship (which I am responsible for) can encourage or discourage others good and bad traits. And that is simple human relations.

Also drug users were demonized, made to look evil. And all the stories we heard in the Seed amplifeid that message. That view certainly had a benefit of breaking the cycle of peaple, places and things. But to convince someone thier peers and prior friends were evil was damaging and has a lasting negative impact. The impact is I have a unrealistically negative stereotype emotionally charged and created in my mind while I was in the Seed and if someone hit a few of those data points they still get put into that category. I do believe drug users would probably have pulled me down since in many cases misery loves company and that people unconciously adopt group standard. I dont know, maybe a more balanced view would have been separating the individual from the addiction understanding the whole addictive mindset better vs. demonizing druggies.  

The idea of having friends with the idea of keeping each other on the straight and narrow is a concept in AA as well as Seed followup and is easy to fall into. It can degrade into, "I only hang out with program peaples....they are the only ones that are real ect...". In reality IMO, having a few trusted peaple for reality testing and healthy behavior sounding boards is positive. But the idea that the whole world should conform to some recovery group model everyone helping each other work through their issues is a huge distortion of reality that creates a mess.  

This is all very good "grist for the mill...".

18
The Seed Discussion Forum / Against My Better Judgement
« on: August 18, 2005, 11:48:00 PM »
Stripe,

Can you expand on your term "emotional cripples"?

I am trying to think this through myself.

Is it like a form of institutionalization? The individual cannot or does not want to function outside the structure of the institution?

One aspect of alcoholic or drug addiction is the a set of behaviors and beliefs evolve in addiction that lead to a belief the person needs outside judgement to save them from themselve. IMO this is true to the extent of helping one break the cycle of addiction. So then the question becomes how does one regain healthy autonomy after breaking the cycle?

I will take a stab at it. I should say I love AA. But, there are lot of confused people there, like everywhere, trying to find there way and mixing truth with falsehood. When someone is coming out of addiction, they get hit with s**t like, saying "I am sober, you are not", or "you are in jail, I am not". "How far did your thinking get you..." Well the truth is, the person saying I am sober and you are not to put you in a one down position could be a total idiot, lunatic loser. When you first show up it is hard to tell who has something good going and who does not.

So I view it as part luck in finding the right people up front to set the stage for healthy development. And by healthy development I mean regaining self confidence and independent thought, rejoining society as a regular person ect.

I never got a chance to see how the Seed handled that because I spent the summers of 72 and 74  (when I was 15 and 17 years old) in the Seed (state road 84), never graduated (I just never got "it", whatever "it" was ever after ~4 months of 10x10x7) and never got a chance to see how they handled moving peaple back into the mainstream.

Can anyone tell me what the process was of become a oldcomer and graduating since I missed that "module" of the program?

I always felt like I missed something, important but was never clear what that was. Both times I was ejected all existing Seed members stopped communicating with me and looked and me like I had a death sentence imposed on my.

Questions:
1. What is meant by term "emotional cripple" as a result of being in the Seed.

2. How was the process of reintegration into the world outside handled by the Seed (or was it)?

19
The Seed Discussion Forum / Against My Better Judgement
« on: August 16, 2005, 10:04:00 PM »
John, if we move beyond the escape from drugs and alcohol (which is huge), how did the Seed and your experience as a staff member mold you and affect the rest of our life?

I would image it developed leadership and confidence.

Did it lead you into your lifetime profession?

Was everything kind of boring after that intensity?

Would you do it over again as a staffer?

Why did the Seed not draw more from AA, like having people read the AA Big Book and 12 and 12?

AA uses the traditions to offset classic alcoholic ego mania. The seed did not operate under a set of traditions of this nature to keep things in check. Were there enough checks and balances in the system?

Although clearly Art was a person like all the rest of us, do you think he had special gifts with at the same time counterbalanced weaknesses?

Did success affect Art?

Have you thought about writing a book about the explosion and implosion of the Seed phenomeon? It would be cool.

When I left before graduating (being kicked out) why did they not refer me to AA as a fall back? Verses telling me the Seed was the only answer?

Is there anything you would have changed in your choices and behaviors while in the Seed?

Are there things you had to learn the hard way working with addicts and parents?

Do you believe you were naive in any ways?

Were there changes that occured at the Seeds that were slow in progression, so they were suddenly seen with the realization the trend had been progressing all along?

Did you see the Seed and staff change with growth and success.

I have thought about your posting. I would say everyones experience is different. I would not say the Seed was perfect, but I would say that I saw and experienced compassion there and I have never forgotten it. I had the impression the goals there were positive.

IMO, maintaining control in a environment full of schemeing hard core dope fiends propelled by addictive behavior and years of street hustler mentality is no small task and looks like a dirty job in many ways. The system had to set up to maintain that contol since the particapants were not voluntary (like for instance AA is).

I now have 18 years sober in AA. If I look at the treatment centers and halfway houses I have worked with peaple from, there is success rate is very low and the environment looks like it would be a challenge for even non-addicted. There is alot of ego, relapse mentality, staff end pateints with control issues and few positve role models go draw from.

I have heard, and it is my experience that if a person is touched/connects in a positive way with one person it can make a difference between success and failure. I would say I got this at the Seed. An when I got there I was way out of control in addiction, realized it and being in the Seed miraculously allowed me to break the vicious cycle of addiction. Theapy and counciling, parents praying for my deliverance ect had already been tried. At that point I had already done way to much damage to myself and did not need to spend any additional time on the streets (things never quit seemed the same after all the LSD, ect. and erosion of my value system). In my opinion the Seed saved my life.

If I bottom line it, I got what I needed and am grateful to this day.

Of course, if I had the choice to do it over again, I would certainly have passed on the whole drug and alcohol addiction thing altogether. That was was a real mess.

20
The Seed Discussion Forum / John Underwood or Staffers Q&A (Facts Only...vs Rants)
« on: August 16, 2005, 08:54:00 PM »
Hey,

Can we have a moderated/controlled thread with only questions and answers with John Underwood or any other staff regarding history, behind the scenes impressions ect. I would find that very interesting and enlightening and would appreciate Johns or any staffers time.

For instance finding out Art was Jackie Gleasons and Art Carnes sponsor was very cool. Also Art has 18 years when he started the Seed. Plus that he found AAers very cold in Miami.  

Then maybe different discussion threads for those so inclined.

21
The Seed Discussion Forum / Art Barker & the Beginning of the SEED
« on: December 29, 2004, 07:16:00 PM »
Thanks for the welcome!

I will respond after the holidays. Life is pretty good now but that was really an intense period..... I need to think where I want to go with this.

Happy Holidays Everyone.

22
The Seed Discussion Forum / Art Barker & the Beginning of the SEED
« on: December 29, 2004, 12:44:00 AM »
I was between 10th and 11th grade when I arrived at the Seed. Given the drugs I was doing and the value system I was developing, my friends kept getting worse, and I was commited and determined in my bad choices. I was really doing some damage to myself. So as much as I hated sitting in a chair from 10 to 10 on stateroad 84, it took me out of that cycle and I was able to clean up and get back on track. I never graduated and was excommunicated by other members when I was pulled out.

The experience of the drugs and the Seed was intense and although I got back on track in life I felt very different from my peers in high school and I never really felt normal after that. It is hard for me to tell how much was the intensity of the Seed and how much was the recogniton of the reality of my behavior and choices in the drug experience, including how much worse it could have been if I continued. But, I really needed alot of work when I got out of the Seed and the trainwreck of addiction.

I relapsed with alcohol 30(not knowing about cross addiction) and now have 17 years in AA.  When I got to AA determined to complete that program I went to alot of meetings and spent alot of time in the literature, sponsoring, forming genuine freindships. I could not find that kind of depth in the Seed. Part of it was my rebellion and part of it in my opinioin was that kind of depth was not there. In treatment today they typically try to set peaple up to continue with AA where there real recovery takes place with time and effort.

So my complaint is they should have referenced AA and the AA literature. A referal to AA would have been nice when I was booted out and excommunicated. Instead of thier "you will be back because this is the only solution attitude". In my opinion now, the Seed was simply bootleg AA in a controlled enviroment.

Also the whole demonizing of druggies, was effective and even true. But I have wondered if that brainwashing has made me untrusting to say the least for life in a distorted way.

On a positive note, from that experience I was able to turn my life around. By the time I was booted, I was clear and drugs and hanging drug users was a bad idea.

I remember a black staff member, Carl. I beleive he was a barber. He treated me well and I have never forgotten it. Also, although I rebelled and hated the whole deal when I was there. I learned alot that has served me well in not drifting back to where I was. Looking back, I think the staff members I dealt with were doing thier best to do the right things in a tough environment/business.

Pages: 1 [2]