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CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / john avala (indubbaly)
« on: September 09, 2004, 08:15:00 PM »
I was there... Were you? :question:
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CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Found some ex staff...see if you recognize
« on: September 09, 2004, 07:46:00 PM »
Hey sorry I didn't see that post until today. I was there from 94-96. Jane Haberman was on Tony's team, as was I. She was nice in a totally airheaded fucking hippy way. I thought that's why she left, because it was too fucked up for her. But, I guess not.
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CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Differences Between Idaho Schools
« on: September 09, 2004, 07:14:00 PM »
Deborah,
I think that you may have missed the point of what I said in my last post. In terms of feeling like we deserved what happened to us, I'm talking about my feelings, not the reality of the situation; people can feel very strongly about things that they know intellectually are not right, and I think that this seems to have gone somewhat over your head. Also, it looks like you have something like 1,000 posts on this board, and I have, like 7. I haven't been working at this as long as you have, and for me to state honestly what my apprehensions were was really difficult for me. Maybe you should consider that everyone is not in exactly the same place as you are regarding what we all went through. And furthermore, to insinuate that either my mother or I are ignorant because we may not see things exactly in the same way that you do I think illustrates a particularly disturbing trend among victims of abuse: turning on each other as an outlet for our anger and confusion.
So, just so that it's 100% clear for those of us who can't pick up too well on subtext, I don't think that incarceration or abuse are appropriate ways of dealing with "defiant teens," ever. Under and circumstance. Sometimes though, we who suffered through it can feel like we are responsible, or that we deserved it, and even though we know that's not the case, it can be hard to get past those feelings. I hope that this clarifies my earlier post.
I think that you may have missed the point of what I said in my last post. In terms of feeling like we deserved what happened to us, I'm talking about my feelings, not the reality of the situation; people can feel very strongly about things that they know intellectually are not right, and I think that this seems to have gone somewhat over your head. Also, it looks like you have something like 1,000 posts on this board, and I have, like 7. I haven't been working at this as long as you have, and for me to state honestly what my apprehensions were was really difficult for me. Maybe you should consider that everyone is not in exactly the same place as you are regarding what we all went through. And furthermore, to insinuate that either my mother or I are ignorant because we may not see things exactly in the same way that you do I think illustrates a particularly disturbing trend among victims of abuse: turning on each other as an outlet for our anger and confusion.
So, just so that it's 100% clear for those of us who can't pick up too well on subtext, I don't think that incarceration or abuse are appropriate ways of dealing with "defiant teens," ever. Under and circumstance. Sometimes though, we who suffered through it can feel like we are responsible, or that we deserved it, and even though we know that's not the case, it can be hard to get past those feelings. I hope that this clarifies my earlier post.
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CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Differences Between Idaho Schools
« on: September 09, 2004, 03:45:00 PM »
Hey Justin,
you know, I'm actually new to this site myself, having just registered the other day. You ask really good questions, and I'm not sure that I can answer them all, but I'll try.
I don't know why more people haven't sued CEDU, but I can say why I think I haven't, which is, even though it's happening inside my own body, still pretty complicated and unclear to me. First and foremost, I don't think we can sue CEDU now, because they are under different ownership (the Brown School), and I'm pretty sure that they could defer liability for anything that occured before they bought the program. Second, and actually probably really first after all, is the fact that it's taken me almost 9 years to be able to start trying to sort out all the shit and damage that got piled on me there; once, driving cross country with my girlfriend, we happened to cut through northern idaho, and I started shaking and... it was really awful. I guess I really never wanted to sue them because I just never wanted to think about them ever again. I felt like I won that right for having put my head down and pushed my way through that place. Third, I'm still embarassed about the shit we did there, and I don't want to talk about it to my therapist, let alone a fucking lawyer and judges, and media. Finally, my mom didn't know what else to do, she meant well, and I don't want to torture her any more than I have to, by letting her know what they did to us.
And, if I were really honest, I don't feel like we deserve any better, that we somehow deserved what they did to us, and I'd rather try to work that shit out in my head than try to get any legal justice. But, if you want to do that, and my help could in any way benefit your case, you can count on it.
you know, I'm actually new to this site myself, having just registered the other day. You ask really good questions, and I'm not sure that I can answer them all, but I'll try.
I don't know why more people haven't sued CEDU, but I can say why I think I haven't, which is, even though it's happening inside my own body, still pretty complicated and unclear to me. First and foremost, I don't think we can sue CEDU now, because they are under different ownership (the Brown School), and I'm pretty sure that they could defer liability for anything that occured before they bought the program. Second, and actually probably really first after all, is the fact that it's taken me almost 9 years to be able to start trying to sort out all the shit and damage that got piled on me there; once, driving cross country with my girlfriend, we happened to cut through northern idaho, and I started shaking and... it was really awful. I guess I really never wanted to sue them because I just never wanted to think about them ever again. I felt like I won that right for having put my head down and pushed my way through that place. Third, I'm still embarassed about the shit we did there, and I don't want to talk about it to my therapist, let alone a fucking lawyer and judges, and media. Finally, my mom didn't know what else to do, she meant well, and I don't want to torture her any more than I have to, by letting her know what they did to us.
And, if I were really honest, I don't feel like we deserve any better, that we somehow deserved what they did to us, and I'd rather try to work that shit out in my head than try to get any legal justice. But, if you want to do that, and my help could in any way benefit your case, you can count on it.
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CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Differences Between Idaho Schools
« on: September 08, 2004, 07:33:00 PM »
I definately don't want to give the impression that things at RMA were at all easier then, and that there were riots there or at BCA. NWA at the time was, however, much more out of control. A friend who was eventually sent back to RMA from NWA and ended up in my peer group was the one who escaped during a mini-riot.
From what I remember, he and some friends staged a fight at dinner during which actual fighting broke out, and he slipped under a teepee and ran like hell. He then managed to hop a freight train and got back to Cali where he was from. He was out for about 8 months I think, but after going through some truely awful shit on the outside, he turned himself back in and ended up graduating.
As far as doing things then that wouldn't have happened when you were there, I can tell you that it was a miserable living hell when I was there, where we only scraped by by silently cheering on the kids at NWA who were giving them hell. As for us, it was impossible to get away with anything.
If you don't mind, when were you there? I was there from 94-96 and was wondering if you were before or after me.
From what I remember, he and some friends staged a fight at dinner during which actual fighting broke out, and he slipped under a teepee and ran like hell. He then managed to hop a freight train and got back to Cali where he was from. He was out for about 8 months I think, but after going through some truely awful shit on the outside, he turned himself back in and ended up graduating.
As far as doing things then that wouldn't have happened when you were there, I can tell you that it was a miserable living hell when I was there, where we only scraped by by silently cheering on the kids at NWA who were giving them hell. As for us, it was impossible to get away with anything.
If you don't mind, when were you there? I was there from 94-96 and was wondering if you were before or after me.
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New Info / Aspen Education Group: Any former students?
« on: September 08, 2004, 04:36:00 PM »
Spirithelps -
You know, it's been a really long time since I was there, and just as long a time of trying to forget about what I went through when I was there. I used to get that same argument from people that you get, about it being a necessary evil, and so since nobody who hasn't been through it themself could possibly understand what it was really like, I just stopped talking about it all together.
Having said that though, I know that what they did there was child abuse, and that it was wrong; i just still feel the way we all got to feeling: nobody's going to help us because we have no rights, and I stopped trying to do anything about it. Did it stop my drug problem? As much as locking me in a closet would have, I guess. What really stopped my drug use was the death of my best friend while I was at RMA. So, do I feel like it was a necessary evil? Yes and no. And I hate that I have to answer it like that, but I'm still conditioned now, even ten years later.
As Far as specific crimes, the therapist they sent me to before I went into the field violated my patient doctor privilage by telling my parents everything that we spoke about; I'm pretty sure that that was illegal, although Aspen told me that privilage didn't exist for minors in Utah. The other more awful crimes I can tell you about if you'd like to hear. I feel like I'm rambling.
You know, it's been a really long time since I was there, and just as long a time of trying to forget about what I went through when I was there. I used to get that same argument from people that you get, about it being a necessary evil, and so since nobody who hasn't been through it themself could possibly understand what it was really like, I just stopped talking about it all together.
Having said that though, I know that what they did there was child abuse, and that it was wrong; i just still feel the way we all got to feeling: nobody's going to help us because we have no rights, and I stopped trying to do anything about it. Did it stop my drug problem? As much as locking me in a closet would have, I guess. What really stopped my drug use was the death of my best friend while I was at RMA. So, do I feel like it was a necessary evil? Yes and no. And I hate that I have to answer it like that, but I'm still conditioned now, even ten years later.
As Far as specific crimes, the therapist they sent me to before I went into the field violated my patient doctor privilage by telling my parents everything that we spoke about; I'm pretty sure that that was illegal, although Aspen told me that privilage didn't exist for minors in Utah. The other more awful crimes I can tell you about if you'd like to hear. I feel like I'm rambling.
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New Info / Aspen Education Group: Any former students?
« on: September 08, 2004, 01:29:00 AM »
I was in Aspen's wilderness program in southern Utah for 2 1/2 months in the winter 0f 1994. I was subjected to long periods of forced fasting, and solitary placement, as well as malnourished severely. It doesn't surprise me to hear people say that they save money by skimping on the kids, because when I was there, we didn't even have real backpacks; we were forced to carry around tarps wrapped up with seatbelt straps on our shoulders, always at weights above 80 pounds.
Aspen should be avoided by anyone at all costs. The other stories of abuse I could tell you would probably sicken you all. Anyone who would like more information can ask me here.
Aspen should be avoided by anyone at all costs. The other stories of abuse I could tell you would probably sicken you all. Anyone who would like more information can ask me here.
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CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Differences Between Idaho Schools
« on: September 08, 2004, 01:20:00 AM »
When I was at RMA, BCA was where they stuck the kids who were "different," than other kids. Mainly kids who didn't have drug problems and stuff.
NWA was a kind of permanant Ascent at that time. It was for the people who were unable to be at RMA or BCA, but who were too long at Ascent. NWA was vicious in the beginning, I had a friend who finally escaped from there during a mini riot (not the big one), which was a pretty common event back then.
Bottom line, in the 90's RMA was where the "cool kids" were, BCA the "weird kids", and NWA the long dark summer school of the soul.
NWA was a kind of permanant Ascent at that time. It was for the people who were unable to be at RMA or BCA, but who were too long at Ascent. NWA was vicious in the beginning, I had a friend who finally escaped from there during a mini riot (not the big one), which was a pretty common event back then.
Bottom line, in the 90's RMA was where the "cool kids" were, BCA the "weird kids", and NWA the long dark summer school of the soul.
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CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Found some ex staff...see if you recognize
« on: September 07, 2004, 10:58:00 PM »
When I was at RMA, Jane was a low level flunky, whose supposedly deep-entrenched hippiedom would seem to belie her management position.
Also, Bruce Wilson is a dildo. :tup:
Also, Bruce Wilson is a dildo. :tup:
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