Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

I wholeheartedly agree that there are a thousand better models for deling with troubled kids. i also question how "troubled" many kids who end up at these vile places are when they are sent. I am sure that there are also many ways to get around the child protection laws but i also think that this is because they are not enforced adequately. I would also ban "levels" kind of systems because of the possibility or retribution of whistel blowers. Not to mention insane cult like group therapy sesions.

unfortunately though i can not see how you can get the programmes banned though in any real way and therefore dont think it is workable. How would you actually go about it three springs?
to me a serious attempt at reform at least gives some of these kids a fighting chance.
So at least the poor things are not dying because of a flu like the kid in the prevoius post! If those in charge of that boy were in jail for criminal negligence and manslaughter because the legal system took seriously what happened i am sure it would send a wake up call to their colleagues.
To think- that kid ended up essentially getting the death penalty for a stupid boyhood prank. for stealing a damn golf buggy. The injustice of it makes me weep with anger!

I am with 3 springs on the abolition of the industry. i dont see how it can be done though! Therefore i would lobby for strict enforceable regulations whixh limit the power of the places to do bad shit. That and strong education campaigns which show caring parents how misguided they are. As for the parents and step parents who are just selfish Arses who knows. A good hard kick in the teeth perhaps

On 2003-10-25 17:05:00, Deborah wrote:

"

kdj,

I hear your frustration, I for one wouldn't consider sending my minor child to strangers, but there are situations in which parents are sold a bill of goods.






"

I have to say i have some feeling for some of the parents who send kids to wildreness programmes, particularly if they are only for the summer. Before i knew what went on in the industry i thought the idea of sending your troubled kid to get away from it all for a little while and spend some time chatting with sympathetic trained adults and getting some exercise seemed a good enough one. Particularly if things were becoming strained at home. It was only when i read more about the punitive atmosphere which some programmes promote & of the lax regulations and series of abuses and deaths that i felt disgusted. I can easily see how an unsuspecting parent who feels that they have done their homework by getting an ed con to "research" could send their kid to such places unwittingly.
I dont excuse what goes on and i will certainly never understand getting an escort service, but I have some sympathy for the parents, particularly those who are made to feel that they are failing as well as for the kids who end up at these places.

I suspect that 1 reason is that there is absolutely no international exposure. I had very little idea that this industry existed and what i did know was of the wilderness therapy industry. I had imagined it was like some kind of outward bound but with counsellors & therapists who were firm but friendly role models for kids having a few dramas at home!!!!! before I read the stories that kids told I was in principal for wilderness programmes because i imagined that they buily character and that the kids found the experience rewarding. i also was unaware of kids being escorted & imagined that they usually went willingly or were slightly shitty at the prospect of going but usually had an ok time once there!  Wehn i did find out(particularly about the death and injury rate) i was pretty outraged.

I think that another reason may be cultural. The main marketing of a lot of the big companies ( I think of aspen in particular) very much focus on the idea that if your friends kids seem nicer, smarter, less defiant than your own, then yours are in real trouble! One of their marketing videos even has the "therapist" beginning with the statement "It is always worse than you think". In a culture where regulation is seen as a threat to the free market and children are legally defined as both the property of and socially seen as a reflection on their parents this is turning out to be a bit of a recepie for disaster!

I think that the only solution aside from exposure of ugly side of the whole industry & tighter regulation, is for parents to not give in to the temptation of a quick fix! this must be hard when they are made to feel like failures when their kids do not turn out exactly the way their community thinks they should.

It sounds like you are in quite a quandry. What makes you say that she is unfit? 17 seems pretty young to be coping with 2 kids. Have you spoken to her. Perhaps she will be willing to let the kids live with you for a bit until she finishes school. Or you could share custody. This could save her & the kids some trauma

Have you tried any local community sources? Perhaps she is too proud to get help or is just realising that she is still a kid and panicking a bit. I can see how this has a potentially concerning impact on the kids. there might be some kind of parenting courses or social workers that can help her & you.

Is there some kind of non abusive local community (like a housing estate)for young mums where a social worker looks in on them and helps with the parenting?
Is she still at school? If so what about them? You and your daugher could try talking to the school counsellor or the principal about this issue & see what you can all come up with.

Have you considered the possibility that if she spends a year at tbs she will be away from the kids & completely cut off so her parenting skills will never improve. She is also likely to really resent you for doing this is such a traumatic and confrontational way. Are the kids going to benefit from being completely cut off from mum for such a period of time?

What about your extended family? Can they assist here?

Given that she is 17 she can forcibly leave any boarding school in a year anyway & retrieve the kids, so really this seems like an expensive short term solution.

I would try to remember that you have 3 kids who are in real trouble here& they all need you

i have a question for Who. If you are looking to improve these programmes surely you would be infavour of those who support strict and well enforced independent regulation of
a) The qualifications required to work in the industry
b) a mandatory ban on censorship of written and/ or verbal communication between kids and parents
c) the legal requirement for correct minimum levels of medical care
d) a requrement for a ban on punishments that involve forced exercise, extended periods of isolation and deprivation of food, communication or shelter.
e) a registrations system for staff so that if they leave one programme because of inappropriate conduct with the kids, or if they prevoiusly ran a dangerous programme, they can not work in the industry again. Doctors afterall are held to this standard.

one of the main complaints is that with an unregulated financially competitive industry parents have no independent way of knowing if a programme is truthful in its marketing. There is no incentive for a programme to hold itself to these standards if it is going to cost too much money.  would you not be pushing for these things if your job is industry improvement?

well firstly i am not fornits, I am a single person!
Secondly, if you are going to be involved in a for profit industry which is primarily about the welfare and safety of minors, then it is a legitimate expeactation that you
be held accountable to an independent body like a regulator.
thirdly if you are going to actively discourage children from speaking to their legal guardians then it is reasonalbe that you can answer why this is so because you should have absolutely nothing to hide about the kids treatment. Moreover if there is profit to be made from keeping a kid for longer than initially thought, especially when a kid's symptoms were issues as vague as "disprespect" then it is only fair that you are answerable.
I am also beginning to feel that my words are now delieberately twisted. Never did i say programmes which dont give kids 24 hour access to family and friends are abusive! Monitored mail or phone calls, however are suspicious and unreasonable. Normal schools and summer camps do not indulkge in this practice.Firstly most camps only go for a month or so at a maximum so the kids is home before too long and secondly mail regularly goes in and out unmonitored. Schools that involve kids bing there for longer than just a few weeks, usually let kids call home without a "therapist" standing over them on some kind of regular basis. This is because tthey do not really have anything to hide and can show parents the results that their money is buying.