General Interest => Tacitus' Realm => Topic started by: NivekOgre on July 11, 2004, 03:43:00 PM

Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: NivekOgre on July 11, 2004, 03:43:00 PM
Since I did my time in the behavior modification dungeon or whatever you want to call it, I am amazed that this is still going on. Can anyone recommend any organizations that lobby for legislation against these places or advocate kids who are stuck in them? If not maybe we need to form these.

For conditions such as drugs/alcohol or emotional problems, I think an approach similar to the pharmaceutical industry should be taken. When a drug company wants to produce and market a new drug they need to convince the FDA that this drug is safe and effective and subsequently demonstrate that they are following the agreed procedure to make and sell the drug to patients.

IMHO, anyone claiming they are going to treat children for some emotional/behavioral/drug problem should have to certify their approach publically, prove that it is safe and effective and submit to a public authority similar to the FDA that insures they are adhering to this approach. If the FDA believes there are any violations they can close the doors costing the company millions until the company becomes compliant. Imagine if the FDA closed the doors on one of these "schools". All the students would have to be placed elsewhere and even when the school reopened they would probably have to start over with zero students. Don't you think they would be sure they conformed?

If there is anyone else interested in lobbying and reforming the system, let's get the discussion going here.[ This Message was edited by: NivekOgre on 2004-07-11 12:54 ]
Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: blownawaytheidahoway on July 11, 2004, 05:07:00 PM
I think that that is the basic underlying message that some people seem to be communicating. That the internet exists at all is key. We had word processors my second year after they opened the Emerson building, but this instrument is now our only tool in recruiting accounts from GradsSurvivormanchurianhairlessmonkies.
Have you seen (
I communicated with them the other day. Very interested in your propostion of some kind of system to watchdog some of the places.
also, I really don't think it matters what you did or didn't do. I can't now address the question of whether or not you did or didn't deserve to be there or even whether it helped or not becuase it is too big and there are so many what if's. I know I will have too. But for me this is a long time coming. I haven't addressed any of this and now it feels like the world crashes down as I realize how very duped we were. And I resent greatly MANY aspects of the "re-education" program. I am not ready to make enemies I haven't asked for so I'm going to have to think about what tone I even want to take in all these chats.
Along that line, whoever said that we should stop being brainwashed has to realize  that people were there from very different backrounds (staff and students alike) and at very different stages still in that great time we all agree is adolecense. Some of the commucations and accusations in the beginning months of the program were WAY too sophisticated for me. And I had been a sometimes runaway for years. Gettin laid and high at fourteen. Instead of feeling bad about that I regret greatly not having the knowledge there would "be consequences for not caring about the authority figures in you life" (care of a letter from my parents dated the day I was processed) and screwed up much more. Because everything since I got out of there has been a question of chalking up to experience or beating the living shit outta myself phychologically.  
I don't want to bitch too much because I need to learn about other peoples exps.
Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: NivekOgre on July 11, 2004, 08:22:00 PM
Thanks for the encouragement. The important thing is to find a way of helping these people that works. I'm near L.A. in So. Calif. and unfortunately all that has transpired with the gangs has given these rehabs an excuse to become more severe. After all, if that 14 year-old kid has shot 20 people in his past, noone is really gonna cry if he's being beaten up in a rehab or not.

I think it is a mistake to mix these kids the way CEDU was doing at least when I was there. They had to make concessions and enforce a level of discipline to control probationary placements while the private parental placement kids probably could have seen a different program and would not have become violent. They really could have split the groups into different schools and customized the programs for each.

Secondly with respect to drugs and alcohol, it has become a known fact to medical science that alcoholism and drug addiction are diseases and you can't just tell people that they need to take responsibility and stay off drugs using willpower. If they haven't already, CEDU should really integrate the AA program into what they are telling people about drugs and alcohol.

Thirdly, the conditioning theories they had are nonsense. I mean that stuff they said about "everything about you has some psychological cause as a result of conditioning". We are finding more and more genetic and physical causes of a person's makeup. Sure, events can shape you too but that is not the complete story. As a result, when I attended there were people who had mental illnesses such as schizophrenia who were told that if they "dealt with their feelings" they would be fine and this is an obvious crock. There are hoards of Phd scientists who support the genetic and physio-chemical contribution to our makeup. Who are you going to believe, these folks or some counselors with mail order degrees at CEDU?

To be honest, I don't resent CEDU as do others on the board. I really didn't stay long enough to form that type of opinion. You probably could rebuild it, taking the good parts and discarding the rest.
Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: mikehunt on July 12, 2004, 10:09:00 AM
honestly, i don't think the aa program is much better... they're both synanon based.

anyway, supposedly, the government backs such places.  go check out the straight forum.  read up on mel sembler.  then take into consideration that he's close buddies with george bush, and he's the lead player in the "war on drugs".  bush backs straight, even though it was shut down years ago.  
very comforting.
Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: NivekOgre on July 12, 2004, 10:26:00 AM
The roots of AA have nothing to do with Synanon, AA was founded back in the '30's. But I have heard about Straight and that it is AA based so I'm sure it is possible to screw up with anything. Even if Bush is allegedly buddies with Mel, legislation would be a huge step in the right direction. It provides the basis for courts to make decisions and the president is not involved in every court case nationwide. It may not completely stop the madness but you have to admit it would help significantly.
Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: mikehunt on July 12, 2004, 10:47:00 AM
are you sure?  i've heard that it was, but my source could be wrong...
anyway, i just think aa is highly addictive.  i've never experienced it first hand (only through my brother) so my opinions probably don't hold much value next to one who has.  i quit doing drugs on my own.
i just look at aa kind of like an organized religion.  perhaps i'm a bit slanted.
Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: mikehunt on July 12, 2004, 10:50:00 AM
i must add, yes, it is a step in the right direction... you cannot make a change without action, right?
what're we gonna go for??
Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: NivekOgre on July 12, 2004, 10:51:00 AM
The AA I know is very mellow. Just a bunch of people sitting in a room talking in normal voices, no confrontation. They say if you can quit on your own then you're not an alcoholic/addict anyway and don't need to be there. Noone is making any money on the real AA so they are not trying to recruit those who don't need it. The only thing people get hung up on is the God thing but they don't insist you believe in the Christian God, you can choose any God you want.
Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on July 12, 2004, 12:11:00 PM
On 2004-07-12 07:09:00, mikehunt wrote:

"honestly, i don't think the aa program is much better... they're both synanon based.

You're not entirely wrong, you've just got it
backwards. Synanon was a spinoff of AA.

There lives more faith, in honest doubt,
Believe me, than in half the creeds.
Alfred Lord Tennyson

Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: NivekOgre on July 12, 2004, 02:46:00 PM
I don't think so. Very different philosophies. Read this link:

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia. ... nanon.html (
Title: Solutions to the hellhole
Post by: Anonymous on July 13, 2004, 08:10:00 AM
"Why stand on a silent platform: fight the war FUCK the norm"

Rage Against The Machine