Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Woof-a-Doof on January 21, 2010, 08:04:59 AM

Title: 32 years ago today
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 21, 2010, 08:04:59 AM
32 years have now passed, January 21st 1978, was my initial intake into Straight Inc.

---Warning--- The following post is lengthy, wordy, long winded, there are 2500+ words. Haven’t the rime to read now? Then don’t read them now. If you have read other lengthy post by myself, and found them to be drool and uninformative, stop reading now. If you are willing to sift thru the words and see if there is any relevance to your experience…read on! ----End Warning---

Friends, and Those I have yet to meet:

A topic has circulated my thought stream for a few weeks now. The topic is not new. The topic has been an undercurrent in many of my own writings, and as I have read other’s efforts over the years, I see the familiar undercurrents woven like a tapestry. Although the words change, the palpable presence of this (once recognized) can be witnessed and experienced.

Often, as we uncover the experiences of the past (or emerge on their own) , there is a sense of singularity, as if we as individuals are exclusively experiencing the memories of the past, or, are experiencing the effects of the past. For those that contribute to the forum, the room, the site and or the message board, there is a degree of vulnerability experienced. In the past I have described this vulnerability as exposing my throat and handing you, the reader, a razor sharp knife. Happily, I have not had many experiences where readers have taken that knife and held it to my vulnerable throat. Although there is no small degree of relief associated with this realization, there is a sense of emptiness when the characters on the screen illicit no response from others that are sure to understand.

Another facet to this experience of divulging personal experience, so sensitive to the individual, is when someone steps up to the plate and says something to the effect of “Yeah, I understand”. These simplistic three words create what has been dubbed as VALIDATION.

This term, VALIDATION, to make valid, to substantiate, to confirm, authenticate and or verify ones experience, has shown to be a most valuable comfort to the feelings of vulnerability. Reliving our experience thru our own memories, is one thing. Perhaps a valuable necessity for ones own sense of “rebuilding oneself”. Or even while quite literally piecing together fragmented memories and making every attempt at making sense of our youth. When we place our finger tips to our respective keyboards, I believe there is a hidden or unacknowledged need to understand, and to be understood. On the other hand, perhaps these needs are not hidden to the writer, but painfully obvious.

By far, my greatest experience with this so called VALIDATION is actually meeting with other Survivors in a face to face situation. Opportunity, if not fate, has afforded me this experience on more than a few occasions. I am not sure I can adequately express the impact of such an experience. The experience of VALIDATION, in my experience is one that is equally shared between two or more individuals. That is, for the one feeling “alone”, the experience is shared. The experience is extremely powerful and long lasting. Undoubtedly leaving an impression with the one experiencing the VALIDATION for a significant period of time.

As in nature, there is an equally powerful experience that opposes the sense of VALIDATION. I have settled on the word, DISCREDADATION or simply, DISCREDIT. That is, refusing to accept as true or accurate, to disbelieve. Taking this one step further, an attempt to cause disbelief in the accuracy or authority of ones own experience. Ultimately depriving one of good repute, to disgrace, as in personal attacks to DISCREDIT one with different experience than ones own.

Categorically, these two terms are mutually exclusive. The two terms cancel each other out, in essence making the other null and void by nature of their definition.

In ones effort to seek VALIDATION, there is an effort (consciously or unconsciously) to DISCREDIT another’s experience. As this unfolds, the effort to DISCREDIT another’s experience, the VALIDATION (which I believe we all seek) remains allusive. In this effort to DISCREDIT another, we further alienate ourselves further from VALIDATION, thus inhibiting further understanding. What begins as an effort to come to some semblance of peace, can quickly escalate to overt hostility.

The result of this juggernaut, is a sense of being “apart from” rather than being “a part of”.  A sense of being excluded, rather than being included. Ultimately, I am coming to see that this is disastrous, as an effort at resolution. A cancerous ambiguity settles in and discourages us from further efforts of understanding. What can be more devastating? Who among us can see the future effects of this line of thinking? Does it mean another 20 years of burying and denying the existence of the 800lb gorilla that faces us daily in the mirror?

I have rung the bell for VALIDATION for sometime now, as if it were the end all. Mistakenly thinking, this is the ultimate solution to coming to peace and acceptance of that which nags incessantly at so many of our souls.

The word “mistakenly” was chosen because, I have come to see it is incomplete as a means to understanding. By nature of the word, VALIDATION, we unknowingly or consciously DISCREDIT those with differing experience. Just the opposite seems glaringly obvious, when we DISCREDIT another beings experience, we put further distance between us, as individuals, to the ultimate goal of understanding and “healing”.

Also, what I see as natural, is often lumped into a common saying of, “Birds of a feather, flock together”. I think to be accurate and obvious. In a recent dialogue with another Survivor I made reference to three separate schools of thought, or three camps of thought.

A) The Pro-Straight Inc. Camp
B) The Anti-Straight Inc. Camp
C) The Camp that reflects on benefits and horrors of Straight Inc. equally.

The Pro & Anti Straight Inc. Camps of thought seemingly appear to be the predominating Schools of thought and bring about the largest degree of debate. Often with stringent antagonism towards the opposing School of Thought. One can not help but to see this in most any site/forum/message board. One side strongly defending its viewpoint while aggressively discounting the experience of the opposing camp and vice-versa.

The attempts made by either/both sides are viciously defending and attacking one another in attempt towards the VALIDATION of it’s own experience. The friction between the two generates tremendous animosity towards one another, resulting in bitterness, infuriation, hatred and a environment of hostility that is not suitable for the thin skinned. Once again this behavior further excludes the silent, possibly the majority of those in the lesser known of the three schools of thought, whom I will call the, ”Moderates” for lack of a better term.

The self proclaimed Anti-Straight and the Pro-Straight camps create such an atmosphere that the “Moderates” are often over ridden, over looked and all to often swept aside, intentionally, or more likely in a blind calloused manner. The efforts of both the Pro & Anti Straight camps in their alarming effort to be “right”, often neglect to consider the emotional welfare of those in the “Moderate Camp”.  Ultimately refuting and dismissing them, along with their experience, without so much as a word.

In light of this observation, I feel the need to ask the question, Who in the hell do we think we are? For those in the Anti-Straight Camp, who expound and pontificate upon the injustices of Straight Inc, does the inconsideration of another’s emotional welfare justify and give a clear example of how we should treat one another? For those in the Pro-Straight Camp, does this insensitivity reflect the values of what is held in such high esteem? Shame on us!

This is not an effort to chastise or criticize any particular school of thought. This is being written in an effort to bring peace and civility to our community. This is  being written with the intent of laying aside our differences. If not completely, then to a point where we can respectfully agree, to disagree and perhaps closer to a mutual respect for one another.

Today, it will 32 years since I walked thru the doors of the Milton Roy Building in St. Petersburg Florida, January 21st, 1978. In many ways it seems as if time has simply slipped thru my fingers. On the other hand, it seems as if the 32 years has been a long tumultuous endeavor.

For several of those 32 years I have been active in these “places”, various sites, message boards etc. In that time, I have run the full spectrum of emotions and I have met many wonderful people as well as locked horns with several along the way.

But I have grown tired. Mentally, physically and most certainly emotionally. Yet, I continue. Why? When every fiber of my being screams for refuge and solace, I am still reading, I am still engaging and should we have another “gathering” I am still going. But why? My health record already indicates one heart attack. I have already lost one marriage and another at risk because of my involvement in these “places”, and here I sit with my fingers furiously pounding on my keyboard as if my life depended on it. But why?

Why, why, why?

What else can I do? Where else can I go? Who else can I talk with? Who else would understand? Nothing! No where! No one! No body!

It was a cold shock, realizing that those whom I feared, despised and distrusted the most, are the same ones I now need the most. There is no other place for me to go. There are no others I can talk with. Certainly, there are no others that can understand. And so, there is nothing else I can do.

Once I had my first experience with VALIDATION, I think I knew what is in the preceding paragraph, to be true. Once I experienced the DISCREDITATION, I mean really experienced it to my core, not only was the above paragraph true, but I found it to be fact. I found after this DISCREDATION of another survivor to be one of the most painful experiences of my life. So much so that my wife found me in our front yard at 2am sobbing uncontrollably just before Christmas.

I experienced such vile hatred and targeted one individual with a viciousness I haven’t experienced in such a long time that I was in a state of shock. How could I be “healing” when I experienced such pain? How could I be at Peace, with such a cauldron of HATE simmering so close to the surface? I sobbed knowing full well the capacity for such rage was still well within my grasp. Me, a grown ass man, 32 years after Straight Inc, talking of “healing” and “peace”, but attacking someone who had the audacity, to simply have a different experience in Straight Inc. than my own.

VALIDATION had betrayed me! (at minimum I had accepted the concept and not considered another side to the coin) I will leave the sites! I will leave and find other pursuits! The mind was quick to lay out detailed instructions. But something saw thru the attempts at further self-deception. It was the moment of disillusionment. Good word, but a horrible experience this…disillusionment! I had 31+ years after Straight Inc and a good quarter century coping with the experience and then in an instant be taken out at the knees by my own actions. WTF?

All my years, searching, looking, asking, probing, growing, learning, being, and coming to grips with it all…poof…gone…in a mouse click I destroyed everything I had strived for. To describe it as a “shitty moment”, is the understatement of the year (2009).

The disillusionment was not quite complete. What I thought I had lost, hadn’t actually been lost. That ¼ century of time and effort simply was the foundation of this understanding. I had to accept there was more to the story of Straight Inc than I gave myself credit for understanding. I realized that to support my sense of VALIDATION I had to accept my experience was my own experience. Even though I had the support of good folks that had similar experiences. That VALIDATION could not be completely supported by my lopsided opinion.


The sudden shift in thought threw these words, and more at me. No one actually used these words, but they echoed thru my skull. Fear of rejection, fear of not being understood, fear of being shot down and the process of thought was/is not even complete. To complicate the issue, there is a compulsion to write about it. Generating more exposure to what obviously is still a fresh wound without so much as a scab to offer protection!

Well, today is the day that subconsciously, I have been less than happy to welcome. And I wonder if any progress has been made on a personal level. When I look at the masses of people in these rooms/boards, I ask myself the same questions. Have we, collectively come any closer to the “healing” I have written about so many times before. There is a tendency to be cynical , and believe my answer would be no, no we haven’t. And yet, I can not rely on my own experience and think others have had similar experience. In short, I can not trust my own insights, and it is presumptuous to think others have not “healed” to one degree or another.

32 years now, 25 of which has been devoted to this “healing”. Have I come closer to that goal? Do I have a firm grip on the effects of Straight Inc? How much of the indoctrinations still have an influence on my day to day life? Has the VALIDATION been anything more than a sense of unity, familiarity and security? Has VALIDATION blinded me in someway that I have neglected to take others accounts into consideration? Or is it predictable as a growing experience, to find what works, then what works better, to ultimately what works best?

Many, many questions. Answers are few and far between. Each day I have to simply place one foot in front of the other and keep walking, keep stepping. Sometimes, there is a bit of side stepping, others, well, there are steps backwards. I suspect, what is most important is that I simply continue moving, do the best I can. Meet and welcome people with whom I have similar experience and not to rule out those who had differing experience. Maybe take it one notch further, to embrace those with differing experience equally with those I have similar experience. This wont be easy. I suspect, as in the past I won’t have a graceful experience and there will be further turmoil. If the goal is “healing”, there will undoubtedly be a price to pay. And who knows, as the lyrics of The WHO from the song “The Seeker” says: ’I won’t get what I am after till the day I die’. But in the mean time, I can have a more peaceful existence with those whom I come into contact with, whether their experience is similar or not so similar, just keeping in mind, they to have had the Straight Inc experience.

I wish you all Peace
I wish you all Much Healing
Aka: dave
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: Sam Kinison on January 22, 2010, 03:21:59 AM
Ya knew I'd have to jump in because I was as much a part of this as anybody.I even hear Walter Cronkite's voice saying "and you were there....".I'm not in any camp.If someone thinks Straight was such a great thing,let them go back and do it all over again.I could care less!I have enough problems of my own.Kids dropping out of high school to sit on Senior Staff having more authority over us than a cop on the street.Great!Do it again if you liked it so much!I could care less!So much for the pro-Straighters.One thing I remind myself is that I'm not the only one with baggage from my youth.It's just that along with the rest of you,I'm the only one with THIS baggage.Mister D,I would send you a cupcake if I could.Not to congratulate you on anything,just seems like you could use a cupcake about now.
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 22, 2010, 07:11:49 AM
Quote from: "Sam Kinison"
Ya knew I'd have to jump in because I was as much a part of this as anybody.I even hear Walter Cronkite's voice saying "and you were there....".I'm not in any camp.If someone thinks Straight was such a great thing,let them go back and do it all over again.I could care less!I have enough problems of my own.Kids dropping out of high school to sit on Senior Staff having more authority over us than a cop on the street.Great!Do it again if you liked it so much!I could care less!So much for the pro-Straighters.One thing I remind myself is that I'm not the only one with baggage from my youth.It's just that along with the rest of you,I'm the only one with THIS baggage.Mister D,I would send you a cupcake if I could.Not to congratulate you on anything,just seems like you could use a cupcake about now.

Cupcake? Cupcake would be fine, and greatly appreciated! Now, a Warm Fuzzy----ugh----I really would have to come down there!
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: RTP2003 on January 22, 2010, 07:22:35 AM
Woof, as much as I respect your beliefs, I think you are way off the mark on this one.

Straight, Etc. was a completely destructive and fucked up operation.  To beat yourself up because you failed to recognize the "validity" of the opinion that Straight was positive or beneficial is absolutely ridiculous.

I get what you are saying about how each of us has individual experiences, etc..........but the common thread we share is that we were subjected to an abusive situation that consciously masqueraded as somehow being "therapeutic".   For you to disparage the opinion of someone who thinks otherwise is not an egregious sin on your part, it is simply telling it like it is.  No amount of "in my opinion" preambling to a pro-Straight argument makes it valid.  The survivors (and perpetrators) of the abuses at Straight that defend it in any way are, to use the common parlance, "still 'washed".  No ifs, ands, or buts........and the survivors who claim "Well, I needed it, I was really messed up", those guys remind me of Hitler apologists......."well, at least we got the VW and the Autobahn, and we were starving before the NAzis came to power...."  Talk about selfish, self-righteous, egocentric fucks........"I needed Straight's help, so whatever happened to you there was OK, 'cause I got help there" (a delusion, by the way).

I recall your rehash of the discussion with a pro-Str8 type.......and I think you are wrongly wracking yourself over the issue now as you did then.  Pro-Str8 types need to be told to shut the fuck up (it was good enough for them to tell us back then, it's good enough for us to say to them now) because they obviously have nothing worthwhile or "valid" to say.  There are no grey areas here.........some things and people are inherently wrong, if not downright evil, and Straight, Inc., Miller Newton, Sembler, and any who in any way subscribe to their demented philosophies are most definitely in that camp.  No two ways about it...........

For me, part of the healing process was coming to terms with the fact that I was right about Straight.  It was wrong, I was right.  It was fucked up, I was not.  To backslide into acceptance of Straight, Straightism, or Straightology and it's adherents/proponents in any form whatsoever is to belittle our survival, and is, in my opinion, counterproductive to healing from the damage that was done to us.

We who despise Straight and Straightism , and by extension, Newton, Sembler, Petermann, etc. are RIGHT.........those who think it was anything other than an abusive mindfuck are WRONG.  No middle ground on this issue, not for me at least.

Who the Hell do I think I am?  I am a survivor of an abusive cult.  I was there, I knew then and know now that it was a fucked situation.  For some pro-Str8 type to try to tell me it was anything other than what I just described it as is an insult, not just an incorrect observation.  Personally, I don't have the time or inclination to try to persuade assholes like that to see the truth of what Straight was about.........and to be "searchingly and fearlessly" honest about it, it wouldn't bother me if every last one of them were to drop dead........that's pretty much what they wanted/expected me to do (with a pitstop in prison or the loony bin on the way to my drug-induced death).....hell, that's what more than two of them told me they HOPED would happen to me if/when I got out of Str8 by any other means than "7 stepping".   I've got no problem wishing ill to pro-Str8 types........I suspect it's something like what an Auschwitz survivor would feel toward an unrepentant concentration camp guard or modern-day revisionist who claims that the  Holocaust never happened, or that, if it did, it was 'cause the Jews deserved it.

Stop wracking yourself with guilt for the righteous anger you feel, and quit trying to martyr yourself in the name of "survivor unity and mutual validation" or're  one of the good guys, Woof.   The folks that are defending Str8, even for them personally, are pretty much out of reach at this point.  We've got our own healing and survival to deal with, and we have our own to look out for, mentor, and help along the path of "recovery from recovery" for the pro-Str8 fuckheads, until they get a whole new outlook on life, and particularly on Straight, Inc., they are not worth wasting our time.

As noble as an attempt to "make peace within the (survivor) community" may be, and I believe you come to it with  laudible intentions, I think it is misguided.  They (the pro-St8 crowd) have done nothing to warrant our reaching out to them with an olive branch, quite the contrary.  Their beliefs and attitudes are DANGEROUS to me and my kind, to our physical, mental, and spiritual freedom.  I see no middle ground in this issue...........they do not deserve our respect or understanding, only our scorn, dismay, and ridicule.
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: RTP2003 on January 22, 2010, 07:36:55 AM
Quote from: "Woof-a-Doof"
C) The Camp that reflects on benefits and horrors of Straight Inc. equally.

There were "benefits" of Straight, Inc.?  Please explain this one, 'cause it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE AT ALL to this Straight survivor.

Seriously, Woof, I really don't get where you are coming from with this one.........
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 22, 2010, 08:58:22 AM
Good to hear from you. I haven’t changed any of my belief’s. My stance is steadfast and solid. In trying to whittle down my lengthy post, I think I can but it quickly and concisely. As long as I carry the torch of hate and intolerance, I am subject to be burned. For years I have been in the habit of hate. When the full weight of hate fell on me, I came to a realization. Was rather simple and I found that I still maintained my stance. I found that I could with open curiosity ask questions without hating. I could set my own emotional investment aside and openly listen.  There was nothing threatening, on my side, nor was I threatened.

One can hate and hate and continue to still hate. The ones hated don’t suffer the wrath as I might have once hoped. Just the opposite. I hated, and the wrath itself, turned around and bit me in the ass. As a good friend has the habit of asking, “How’s that working for you?”

I am no less a person for setting aside hate in favor of peace. That peace does not imply that I endorse, encourage or in any other way support what took place or what is taking place as we speak. In fact quite the opposite, the ability to set the hate aside has allowed me to ask the questions and to receive their answers. The answers are astonishing, I could not have seen the breadth of damage done with hate as a precursor to my questions.

It was a difficult time in writing the post above. I don’t expect many people to endorse the post, from either side. While writing it, I knew the possibility of falling out of good favor with many, many friends. Although this saddened me, I could not fake or  act as if I was still a hater, when the fact was/is…I can not live under the hate.

I am not asking Mel Sembler, George Ross, Helen Peterman and Miller Newton to dinner or am I welcoming them into my home. As a member of those still surviving, I know all to well the need to tend to our own…as much as one may not like what I wrote, it was written for the survivor, it was written for us. 32 years have gone by, and a vast majority of that time has been spent healing and helping our “camp” to heal. If I would have found something to help and not shared it, I would be remiss in not doing so. Fact is, I found something that helped, and I shared it. I don’t expect many, if any to understand. That does not refute what I have found.

As much as we treasure VALIDATION, we simultaneously DISCREDIT. As comforting as VALIDATION is, it is not healing, as a complete structure. The challenge becomes, can I listen to another, without reacting to my habit of HATE. Can I set HATE aside for a moment and simply listen. Again, I am not threatened, my stance, my views, my camp is not threatened. Just the same, I am not threatening to others.

We may disagree on one serious point, and that is the Moderate Camp. Essentially, as least in what I have witnessed, everyone coming into these message boards fall into this category. How many have come in, saw the feuding, been the butt of the feuding or simply wanted to avoid the feuding and fall thru the cracks. They walk away as “walking wounded” with no camp to call their own, because we are so hateful…we lose another that suffers. And that’s a good thing? Nah, don’t think so at all, it deplorable that HATE can not be set aside for the welfare of a person just beginning to take a serious look at this.

Funny, I was warned about posting this and I agreed with them, I would catch allot of flack for it. However, I trust those, like yourself, that know me and know me well enough to know that I would not entertain such a thought stream unless there was merit to it. Trust me, I fought this idea for a good amount of time and I suspect if I would have read it as you have, I would respond exactly as you did. I got broad shoulders, if I am wrong about the effect of HATE, ok, I am wrong, no big deal, I have experience with being wrong before. And if I am wrong, I am not afraid to say, I am wrong. Show me how HATE can be beneficial and meaningful in our efforts to heal. Show me how HATE can be beneficial and meaningful to those of the other “camp”. If you can do that, I would be wrong, and I will admit it.

To steal a line from John Lennon, All I am saying is, can we “Give Peace a Chance?”

Gotta run…work and all!

Much Peace
Much Healing
Aka: Dave

Will answer second post when I get back
Title: Let's have a song!!!
Post by: Froderik on January 22, 2010, 10:22:19 AM
Brain invasion goin' on in everyone
You feel the things that make a world turn angry red
Because the next time you can't take it
Next thought murderlation
And hate is all you wanna know

Murder one inborn into your every cell
It's in your blood and you can't shake it
Because you were bred to take it
Next stop annihilation
They bred the hate right in your bones

Because you were bred to take it
Next stop annihilation
They bred the hate right in your fuckin' bones

Hate is your mistress and you shall not want
You shall not want because your breed is strong
Because when they try to break you
New world desolation
And strength is all you gotta know

Whoa oh oh
Hate breeders
Whoa oh oh
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 22, 2010, 02:39:49 PM
Quote from: "RTP2003"
Quote from: "Woof-a-Doof"
C) The Camp that reflects on benefits and horrors of Straight Inc. equally.

There were "benefits" of Straight, Inc.?  Please explain this one, 'cause it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE AT ALL to this Straight survivor.

Seriously, Woof, I really don't get where you are coming from with this one.........


Didn’t make allot of sense to me either. I can not explain this to you, it was not my experience. Yet there are those who insist that Straight Inc had a benefit in their lives, not just one or two, not only ex-staff members but many people. I was astonished. But they are genuine, real, live beings that claim to have benefited from Straight. We could bash um and thrash um, yet they are still there. They work, own their own businesses, have families, pay taxes, breath oxygen and everything. I had to ask myself if they were bullshitting, why would they put their lives and reputations at stake by saying Straight had a positive impact on their lives if it were not true. Who in their right mind would want to subject themselves to the ridicule if Straight was of no benefit?

Trust me on this, I was shocked to learn of not only the “other camp”, but there is indeed a school of thought that remains rather neutral. Yes, most seem to agree Straight sucked, but they still claim to have a better life because of their Straight Inc experience. (I am wondering how many lurkers fit in this camp) I even have a cousin that rings that same bell. I look at their lives and everything seems in order, what else can I do but accept them at their word? Again, not my experience, doesn’t match my memories…but they are blood, my blood, I can’t help but lean towards believing them. Interestingly enuff, I have another cousin who is in “our camp”. Not surprising, they don’t discuss it together that I am aware of. Now, if my own family member says their lives had a positive impact because of Straight Inc. then why wont I accept, or believe a good number of relative strangers.

As I said, I see three (3) separate camps, or schools of thought. Two (2) are predominate and the other…well, not so much. That’s gotta be a very difficult place to be. If one school of thought hits them with how fucked up Straight was and the other school of thought hits them with how wonderful Straight was…I can only imagine that they would see extremist on both sides. That “extremism” would take them right back into a warehouse somewhere in the back of their mind. Then what?

My guess, they go on about their lives. Do they walk away any closer to healing? Do they walk away with any understanding? Do they walk away seeing a group of people hating/bashing and a group of people denying and dismissing the others…and then no one giving a damn about the “moderates”.

You, myself and others <ahem> are anything but “moderates”…but I do not believe, you, myself or others, willingly, willfully wish for any that suffer to walk away. At one time, at least in my mind, it was THIS or THAT, US and THEM, Right, Wrong…Black/White, On/Off. Absolutely no wiggle room. You fit, or you don’t. Who in the hell do I think I am? I am a survivor of Straight Inc.. But where and when did I receive the right to deny their experience? Especially when by God, my experience was actively denied and dismissed!  See the insanity? The duality? The double standard?

---The Following is an Analogy--- Think of two (2) hippies carrying peace signs at a demonstration. Now imagine them arguing about some point or another (but not a documentary…anything but a documentary) <it’s a joke Alex> . At any rate, the argument escalates, and soon the hippies are clobbering each other over the head with their respective peace signs. ---End Analogy---

How bizarre that would be to actually witness! Especially to someone just entering an interest phase of the “peace movement”. All that other person would see is two guys whacking each other. Would either side of the argument matter to that ‘other person’?

---The Following is an  another Analogy--- Boxing. If two (2) boxing athletes stepped into the ring, one was stoic and focused, the other subject to being easily angered. Which boxer would score the most points? Why? If a boxer is so pissed off that he cant see straight (pardon the euphemism), he will get his ass handed to him and find himself staring at the ceiling! ---End Analogy---

RTP2k3, dude…really, seriously, I cant go on hating, justifiable or not. Soon, hate is as hate does and I cant live like that. My stance, if it need be said, is Anti-Straight Inc. to the core of my being. That has been my stance in the past, is now and will be so in the future, Anti-Straight. Gatherings, Protests and Memorials, I will be there, you know that. You asked me while in the hospital if I really “really” thought healing was possible. You were willing to die in an effort to finally heal. I was honest with you. Healing is not static, nor is it stationary but more of an evolving process and ya simply have to live thru it. I should have added that it doesn’t always have “feel good moments” and there is a distinct possibility there will be ample, if not plentiful amount of “feel like shit moments”. Not everything involved with healing actually feels like it should be a part of the process, but it is…much like itching. I am not sure why, but every time I mention itching seems like I always hear, “that means it’s getting better”…I digress

Ok, <in reference to your last sentence> I had no idea where I was coming “from” or for that matter what was coming at me! I haven’t really a clear idea of where I am “going” towards. Its all kinda unfolding, rather…evolving (unfolding has a negative connotation). So, yeah, I understand your bewilderment. I am not fond of roller coasters and I find myself in front seat.

Now, I am kinda hoping the roller coaster is fast approaching the unloading area! It was a profound experience, my words will never do it justice. Just thought I would throw it out there.  There is a possibility for a member of the Anti-Straight camp, that can drop the hate. Dropping the hate doesn’t negate my experience, my views or my stance. Breaking a habit of hate is not a suggestion, for me it is a matter of survival. What you do with it, what anyone does with it…I dunno.

RTP2k3, I assure you, nothing has really changed. I just don’t want to be the hateful bastard I saw I have the capacity to be. I was advised, actually discouraged from writing this post. I was told I would simply be taking the “victim’s role” and that people would rebel rouse and all that.  LOL that still cracks me up! But if I am wrong, I ain’t ashamed to say it, and chances are I would apologize. I don’t wanna be hateful.  Allot of things can be said, I just don’t want “hateful” on my resume.

@Alex…you know I feel old when you post lyrics I am not familiar with them and did you know a RAM only needs two (2)square inches to maintain perfect balance?

Whelp, hope that cleared things up, if not…we will try again!

Much Peace
Continued Healing
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: RTP2003 on January 22, 2010, 09:35:03 PM
It does take a lot of energy to keep a real seething hatred going, you're damn right.......and I can fully appreciate being tired of feeling hatred, however justifiable that hatred may be.  I can and do however, carry a righteous anger.....and while I can see your point regarding holding on to hate as being ultimately counterproductive, if not harmful, I think a little anger and indignation are perfectly in order, and can be a catalyst to healing, as it has been for me.  You see, in Straight, I was told to "apply the Serenity Prayer", to accept the bullshit to which we were subjected.........I can't do that, much as you say you cannot hate.  

Admittedly, hate is a strong word, a powerful label for a powerful emotion.  If we only hate that which is evil, as Straight and it's directors most certainly were, then I think we are on safe ground, psychologically at least.

That being said, I understand and respect your desire to stop feeling hatred.  I also respect and understand that your desire to let go of hatred is not some kind of change in your opinion of the abuses and atrocities that were part and parcel of the Straight, Inc. experience, and I hope you recognize my questions and comments regarding your post are not some kind of attack on you or attempt to belittle your statements nor beliefs.  

Personally, I think that any who remain pro-Straight are either trying to deny their own guilt, or are still gripped by the steel wool brain scrub.  I think those that are on the fence, as you call them, haven't fully awakened to what happened to them, either as a psychological defense mechanism, or Stockholm Syndrome, or because they are still somewhat 'washed, (though not to the degree the pro-Straight folks are).  Just my opinion, nothing more.

I don't think you have anything that needs to be apologized for, and I certainly hope you don't think I am bashing you as being a "traitor" or whatever.    If you have found some measure of resolution or peace from your decision, then it is probably a good choice you  have made.

One last thing, then I gotta go smoke some more herbal medicine........I honestly hope you don't consider my questions and comments as being some sort of diatribe directed at you for some imagined "treason against the anti-Straight catechism", because that is not what I intended.......I honestly wanted to understand some of your statements, and I thank you for your candid replies.

Much healing and peace to you as well, my friend.
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: Anonymous on January 22, 2010, 11:10:30 PM
ANYWAY I LOVE THIS STUFF, KEEPS ME ALIVE...WOOFY......THANKS.......DANNY :shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock:
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: kpickle39 on January 23, 2010, 07:09:42 AM
Been interesting read from all sides.  Back to the subject line for abit. . . 32 years Woof.    Man, we were just kids back then.   I guess last December was 31 for me.  Been good knowing you all these years, in the program, the first couple of years after we graduated, and now after the awakeing. . .  esp now.    Take care, wishing you a peaceful and happy 32 more
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: shaggys on January 23, 2010, 06:37:43 PM
I don't think the pro-straight crowd has any legitimate argument, as far as i have heard yet anyway. It is obvious that they are all either still "washed" in some way or lying to cover their crimes and personal guilt. There are not two sides to this story. There is the truth and then there is the propaganda bullshit. I will not try to even pretend to respect the opinion of a truth-denier. As we used to say in group they are " Full Of Shit ". I have come here and other forums and come clean about my crimes in Straight. I was hurt and i hurt others. I admit it. I was forced into membership of an abusive cult. Its not as easy to admit as I make it sound sometimes. Then to have someone come along and deny everything is like slapping me in the face and calling me a liar. Yeah, i'm not gonna ever react well to that.
   Yo Woof, I really respect and appreciate the work you have done on behalf of the survivor community. I also understand that you don't want to be hateful. However, my hate keeps me going sometimes. i know its fucked up, but its true. Its not blind ignorant hate but a focused intensity. Hate has been there for me when i felt completely alone. It has kept me company. I can't let go easily of something that has been a reliable "friend?" for so long. Like I said, its fucked up. thanks, shag
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: Froderik on January 23, 2010, 09:00:50 PM
Quote from: "Woof-a-Doof"
@Alex…you know I feel old when you post lyrics I am not familiar with them and did you know a RAM only needs two (2)square inches to maintain perfect balance?
That Misfits song is from 1981 so don't go feeling too old....

Rams are fairly centered beasts, then?  :nods:
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: Sam Kinison on January 24, 2010, 04:23:00 AM
While I was in there,I have to admit that I fell for everything hook,line,and sinker.Realize from all the lies heaped upon us,the two that roped me in were 1)All the things that made me a disturbed miserable teen would be over upon completion of the program and 2)I was a drug addict and alcoholic and that was why I had these problems.The only benefit I received from Straight was that I learned that I didn't NEED the help of substances to enjoy myself.The damage,or price I paid,for that tidbit was immeasurable.To make a long,sick story short,almost all of the things going before Straight was there waiting for me upon my completion.Along with that revelation came a whole new set of problems far more complex than the ones that got me to buy into whole Straight thing in the first place.On top of that,my mother still believes that Straight saved my life.
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: kpickle39 on January 24, 2010, 08:21:48 AM
Jesus, your mother too. . .  :(
Title: Re: 32 years ago today
Post by: Sam Kinison on January 24, 2010, 09:33:44 AM
I think it's more like......they want to believe that THEY saved our lives by putting us there.If THEY would look at the drug related deaths suffered by Straight graduates even though they completed the program maybe they would see something different,but probably not.THEY would probably hide behind the "It only works if you work it" clause.It was the off the chart mortality rate that opened my eyes,but I doubt it would open theirs.