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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: try another castle on August 06, 2007, 05:01:59 AM

Title: Did you break?
Post by: try another castle on August 06, 2007, 05:01:59 AM
Well, we all broke, to some degree or another, but when I mean break I mean really, really break. You bought into the program in its entirety, even if it took them a while to work on you. You believed in the ideology, to the point of thinking it  was revolutionary. You believed in the rules. You eagerly smooshed with friends on the floor. You copped to the smallest speck of dirt, and you felt that if you didn't take care of your feelings regularly, something bad would happen to you.


This was me. As critical as I am about my experience, I will be the first to admit that I was a total RMA drone. (and stuck out terribly as a result. because I tried too hard.) I wasn't some smart-ass who bucked the system ("resistant") and did subversive things (however big or small) that would definitely fall into the cool category, (and seriously, there are quite a few of you in here who, after hearing some of the things that you did while you were at CEDU/RMA, would fit into that category. And I mean seriously ballsy stuff.) I was one of the ones who absorbed the ideology and wanted desperately to believe it. I thought I did. I thought it was great. And it made me miserable.

CEDU-think + obsessive/compulsive personality = ow

I want to hear from others in this forum how much you bought into CEDU while you were there, and at what level, if any, you were able to resist.

I'd really appreciate it if people could also post what years they attended, and what school they went to.


My main curiosity about this is that there has been some discussion about how the ideology evolved. Was it more coercive earlier than later? I read about some of the sneaky (or not so sneaky) stuff that kids did in the late 90s that nobody would have even thought of doing when I attended. (Or maybe they did and I just never found out about it because I wasn't in on it.)

So.... yeah...  just kinda wanting to hear about how everyone else took it.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: drlongjon on August 06, 2007, 05:44:45 PM
I resisted for 6 months. I then began to give in and revealed something nobody knew about me to my counselors. On my next parent visit, I had to tell my father. I did this at a campfire next to a teepee, just me and him. After I disclosed my "dirt" I tried to explain some of the ideology going on there, like giving me a spirit animal or something. It was like American Indian belief or something where a deer represented me. My dad then decided I was being brain fucked into cultish thinking and took me out of RMA in my 7th month thank god.
Title: I Never Broke
Post by: Son Of Serbia on August 07, 2007, 05:57:28 PM
I never broke. I never believed any of Cedu's bullshit, I never bought into the program, and I thought all of Cedu's ideas were stupid.  I knew that what was happening at Cedu was wrong,
from day one, and this didn't change.  I didn't accept anything that went on at Cedu as being healthy or normal, and I've always viewed Cedu and all of it's supporters with utmost contempt and revulsion.

I did play the game though, and I went through the motions when it suited my purposes.  For instance, the one and only time that I ever "took care of my feelings" in a rap, I screamed at the floor, pretended to cry, and basically repeated all the same shit that
the look goods had just screamed about before me ("I want to live until I'm 18", "I hate my thinking", "I'm so angry", etcetera).  I faked the whole thing after the Rap faciliator accused me of "not being emotionally ready to go home" and he threatened to cancel my upcoming home visit.  Well my ploy worked, I went home, and I split soon after I got there.  Well the PI's brought me back to hell that time, but it wasn't long before I split again and stayed out for good.

There were other times when I publicly claimed to like Cedu, and even encouraged younger studets to stay there, it was all bullshit,
I'm not proud of this, but again it served my purpose by taking the suspician off of me while I planned my next escape.  My goal always remained to get the fuck out of Cedu, and this is exactly what I did.  I took control of my life, I got the hell out, and stayed out for good.
Cedu Never Broke Me, that's for sure!
Title: Did you break?
Post by: Rugby Punk on August 08, 2007, 01:14:02 AM
Not sure this is a fair question in a black and white reality. Did I break? Sure I guess so. Or I played the game. Or I just plain survived with some sanity intact. Depends on your point of view, doesn't it?
I might have been hated as a look good, although I didn't tend to go after the easy target rebels to prop myself up.
I'm not proud of the way I always acted there, but I'm proud that I could walk away and carry on with my life and eventually put things in greater perspective.
Those first couple of years out of Cedu, by the way, were seriously rough when I realized how skewed my sense of reality had gotten.

Son of Serbia admits that he played the game, but he also had some raging moments of rebellion that I never could've thought of doing while I was there.
We never had an active underground, though. I think if I'd had a safety net like that, things might've gone different for me. In our era, you couldn't be sure that your friends wouldn't be slammed in a rap so hard that they would spill everything and give you up.  It's like 'Invasion' (...of the Body Snatchers. Great movie concept, but why do they have to keep remaking it over and over?)
Who do you trust that hasn't been secretly converted over to them?
That's why I really respect the hell out of anyone there during my time and before because it was so hard to rebel out without being dragged down by your own peers.
Ultimately, I can't deny anyone what they went through, or how they did it to make it mentally intact to now. I did what I could and so did they, so it seems pretty horrible to have to categorize people as either broken or not, when there's a lot of gray area inbetween. In my head and in my heart, I stayed true to who I was. They never broke me. Isn't that enough?
Title: Broken
Post by: Anonymous on August 08, 2007, 08:48:55 AM
I wish I could say I did not break... but it wasn't so simple.   I ended up splitting because I realized I would have to be a liar, an abusive bully,and a robot to survive. I was always clear on how they distorted my story.  I couldn't imagine treating people the way I would have to, or lying about myself to suceed.

So I split.

But they still broke me in the sense that I internalized a lot of its polemical thinking, rationalized some of its practices, adopted its black and white world view, and suffered an inability to truly connect with people for fear they would exploit me in the same way CEDU had.

I desperately wanted to believe that although they were unfair and misguided (and this is a gross understatement), their hearts  were in the right place.   I had to see the silver lining so I didn't live in hatred and bitterness.  But my Pollyanna attitude only set me back in terms of confronting what was real and true.  I could NOT accept what I now know.

I wish I could say I was as clear as Serb was. But I wasn't. It was extremely confusing.  I just couldn't process the blunt truth... it seeped in.

--Shanlea
Title: Breaking
Post by: Anonymous on August 08, 2007, 12:22:59 PM
Good string of posts...

Have you folks been in contact with Liam yet?

Son of Serbia? Shanlea? Have some banter with him. I enjoyed chatting and sharing my experience. The whole thing was quite cathartic for me.

Hmmmm - did I break?

BTW - I CAN tell you from personal experience that Rugby Punk DID break...that pu$$y!
(Just kidding - I know Rugby Punk - well)

Basically, I don't have a long time right now to put all of my thoughts down  on this.

I think there were a few categories for where one could fall.

1) Completely drunk from the punch - These people believed EVERYTHING they were being fed and followed the program flawlessly.
(This was maybe about 10-15%)

2) Look Goods - Didn't necessarily buy into everything, probably accepted some of the program, realized the only way to get through it was to be the "role model" Cedu student.
(About 30-40%)

3) Half and Halfs - The only analogy I can think of right now is Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984. Smith eventually knew everything was bullshit, but in the begining he still maintained his everday appearences while slowly finding out the truth. Half of you thinks that what you are going through is bullshit, half of you thinks there is some merit or silver lining to what you are being taught. These people would be good, then get into some trouble, cop out, work the program, be good and then slowly creep back into some sort of understaning that there was an underlying "evil" within Cedu. For whatever reason...some things just didn't sit right.
(30-40%)

4) Rebellion and Animosity for the Program - These people knew that everything that was going on was total bullshit and couldn't participate, found most of the shit to be horribly inappropriate, and refused to sip the juice. However - Cedu had a way of making life absolutely atrocious if you kept up this behavior and at times you HAD to play nice just to try and have some friends and not work all the time. (I hated dishes - still do to this day)

5) Complete Refusal - The way cedu worked, if you kept this up for a long period of time, they lost their patience and you were somehow pulled. These people were usually moved to juevenile hall, a lock up/hospital, or ?


Keep in mind, these are rough generalizations - but I think close.

I was definitely in between 4 and 5.
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: psy on August 09, 2007, 04:16:24 AM
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Well, we all broke, to some degree or another, but when I mean break I mean really, really break. You bought into the program in its entirety, even if it took them a while to work on you. You believed in the ideology, to the point of thinking it  was revolutionary. You believed in the rules. You eagerly smooshed with friends on the floor. You copped to the smallest speck of dirt, and you felt that if you didn't take care of your feelings regularly, something bad would happen to you.


100% ditto

Yup!  Happened to me.  Really really broke...  I didn't even know it happened.  I was scared enough and I started to believe.  (I need this place, what i was doing was not working, etc...)

Ya.  I will be releasing my journal soon, with entries to that effect. (end of this month.. maybe sooner)
Title: Re: Breaking
Post by: psy on August 09, 2007, 04:27:50 AM
Quote from: ""Johnny Propheet1""
I think there were a few categories for where one could fall.

But how could you tell if somebody was faking it or not.  You couldn't, and neither could the staff.  I never "broke".  I started to believe.  Big difference.  I never compromised what I believed in... they simply found a way to change my beliefs.

Once I snapped out (in program) I started a protest (demanding rights), caused a big stink, and got isolated for the rest of program (ya... i have the letters to my parents from staff to prove I actually did it).
Title: Did you break?
Post by: try another castle on August 09, 2007, 01:37:28 PM
Quote
I never "broke". I started to believe. Big difference.


I disagree. You can't truly believe unless you are broken first, exception being that you were born and raised believing that ideology.

People can change their belief systems, and often do, but program belief systems were forced upon us through coercive methods. It is not simply a matter of overwriting. There must be an attempt to purge the system first, to make room for the completely contradictory, unhealthy and oppressive ideology.

Everyone who believed was broken, even the ones who still drink the kool aid. None of us went in there embracing the program. None of us consented. None of us were given the choice whether to accept this way of thinking and behaving. Even if we told ourselves that we chose to believe, it was not a choice, because our initial reaction was NO.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: dniceo7 on August 09, 2007, 02:13:21 PM
I wanted to get out of that place so badly that I felt myself starting to break. It was my friends that kept me from breaking, though...they were good friends and to comply with the program would've meant betraying them altogether. From there I started playing the game where I could, support in a propheet, say something deep in a rap, whatever the game called for, but it was pointless. Part of playing the game meant snitching on everyone, friends and acquaintances alike, and of course refusing to be accessory to any slight bending of "agreements". It was a waste of time only playing the game to a degree; it wasn't going to get me out of there any faster and it was starting to blur the lines between what was the game and what was real. So instead I spent most of the last 8 months on what staff eventually called "one, long full-time restriction", but I had my buddies, and we had our semi-regular pipeline of bacardi from bonners ferry, and we had our occasional sack of amazing, north of the border greens, and I had her. And I'm thankful to this day I never broke.

Or started to believe, whatever the difference may be. I guess I was a bit like Psy, though I managed to snap out before the fall. No protests for me, my own was a mostly silent protest against the idea of waiting out a sentence before I could enjoy life again.
Title: Humbug!
Post by: shanlea on August 09, 2007, 02:36:20 PM
I can tell you now that during my stay at the lovely CEDU, there were no friends who supported your real, intact self... they were all look goods, snitches, kool aid drinkers, or just trying to get by doing whatever they had to do. So, basically, my coterie of CEDU compadres did NOTHING except support the ideology, driven by koolaid or fear, or some mix of both.  We certainly had NO access to bacardi, herbs, or fun with Dick and/or Jane.

Maybe CEDU loosened up during your tenure. I was there in mid-late eighties. You couldn't get away with anything then. Back then, you could be banned from the sun, banned from books, banned from zippers. Seriously.   (Not to mention free speech/religion/thought/association/ and will.) It was completely seeped in Stepford control and ideology.

Shanlea
Title: Did you break?
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on August 10, 2007, 04:20:17 PM
Wow. As a 8/1/90 Grad I am amazed everytime I read posts from others who were there in the mid 90's and later.

Bacardi and chronic during an 8 month full time? Amazing. Unfathomable pre 91.

I know it's a grey area but if you had to pick a year that things truly changed. Would it be  1992?  I know the brown school takeover had much to do with it.



Broken?
Sure there are shades of grey but in an absolute sense Only people in group 1, the kool aid junkies, were broken. Who is that dude, Herman Almarez. Graduated in 88/89' and has posted here. His posts reminded me of Viki Jones on super kool aid. That's broken. Someone who fit the profile of group 1 and comes to fornits and can't appreciate any criticisms/insights or offer any - that's punch kool aid drunk .

1 thing I never could relate to was trying to fight the system there. You couldn't. Overtly resisting and/or not showing enough consistent effort to better oneself only brought upon the cedu wrath.  I accepted the reality of it ( the good & mostly bad)  & tried to make the best of it. Then again we were only 16....... If I could go back and talk to my 16 year old self  .........

Time to stop -  I'm topic jumping like a bag lady 1/2 baked on Elmers glue.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: Son Of Serbia on August 10, 2007, 05:59:08 PM
Quote from: dishdutyfugitive
Wow. As a 8/1/90 Grad I am amazed everytime I read posts from others who were there in the mid 90's and later.

Bacardi and chronic during an 8 month full time? Amazing. Unfathomable pre 91.

I know it's a grey area but if you had to pick a year that things truly changed. Would it be  1992?  I know the brown school takeover had much to do with it. "=quote]


If things did change at Cedu RS in 1992, it must've been after
I split (in July).    Like Shanlea & the Fugitive, I could only dream about bacardi, chronic, and loyal friends who didn't rat me out during my stay at cedu.  It just didn't happen, because everyone was a sheep, and they followed cedu's dictates without question.
For me this was hardest thing of all about cedu, and it drove me fucking crazy!  

We were being abused & humiliated daily by staff who by their own admission were complete fucking failures in their personnal lives.  We were expected to follow the most riduculous and oppressive rules imaginable.  We were fed shitty food, lived in substandard housing (the boys dorms weren't even insulated), and forced to do manual labor with no compensation, which Cedu profitted from.  We were completely cut off from our families, friends, and everything we knew and loved.  We couldn't even worship freely or observe our own respective cultural beliefs (unless you were jewish).  And let's not forget to mention the fact that our education(s) were being completely overlooked & neglected......but did anyone get pissed and tell Cedu to go fuck themselves?  Did anyone actually think for themselves?  No, not really, most people just smiled, ate the shit that cedu fed them, and put all of their energy into convincing others to assimilate and accept the program.  

I think this is why I had so very few friends at Cedu,  I just couldn't respect people who not only wouldn't stand up for themselves, but who also insisted that I be as big of a tool as they were.

That's not even the worst of it.  The worst part about it is that we gave Cedu all the power they had over us.  The "success" of Cedu's program soley depended on the blind obedience of the majority of the student population, and staff knew this all too well.  In fact, "students" did more to enforce Cedu's rules, than the staff themslves. This was the reason for all of the bans & various forms of isolation that we "not-with-the-program kids" endured, it was to keep us from getting the word out to the others that we could choose not to follow the rules, and that we could take the power away from Cedu staff anytime we pleased, and bring them to their knees.

I think the generation of kids that followed me figured this out, as evidenced by undergrounds that were formed at the various facilities, and the riots that took place at NWA, Cascade, Amity School and others, which in many ways contributed to Cedu's final closure.  I only wish that my generation at Cedu got the message and stood up for themselves, but alas I could only dream of such things back then.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on August 11, 2007, 12:55:15 AM
This is the reason I like this forum. It's given me the opportunity to recognize and deconstruct the mirage that was cedu.

Serbia, I like the idea of a student fighting back at that time. But they had the entire situation wired. From marketing to prospective parents to graduation. It was watertight.

The core of their control was based on the following:

1. Most parents were extremely desperate to find the perfect school and fix their kid. Caroline and crew had their sales pitch wired and probably had a 75% close ratio with prospective parents. Just imagine your mom sitting there all teary eyed and Caroline saying how she once was 'their' child all fucked up beyond recognition and that cedu had saved her life and turned her into a saint that has dedicated her life to saving souls in bonners ferry. That embodies every aspect of a cult and is indicative of a fucked up society where parents can't raise their own kids because they don't have their own shit together. Sure they have prestigious job titles, own big homes, earn 300k a year and look like society's role models but as far as parenting skills they're no better than a broken frisbee at the park. On day 1 cedu had our parents locked in for the entire 2 & 1/2 year ride .

2. To up the ante many parents used the (highly cedu recommended) tactic of threatening juvenile hall/lock down if their child split/refused the program. This is the very reason I stayed and graduated. RMA or jail (with no rap sheet or court orders)?  RMA.

3. Drink the kool aid or die.

Summary:
1. We had no parental support (outside of cedu doctrine).
2. Jail is your next best option.
3. You're completely isolated from everything but cedu doctrine.
4. If you Resist/coast (consistently) you guarantee yourself the wrath.

And fuck mel wasserman. Remember how he would show up and roll around campus like he was some Ceasar with a 2 foot cock. I never saw him talk to kids. Never saw him act genuine to staff. In my book, that right there is disdain for the commoners. That is evidence enough, that that fat greasy bastard felt too anxiety riden to attempt  something so risky as to preach the sermon (nothing ventured nothing gained doesn't apply to the highest man on the totem pole). Even better, he thought himself 'above' something like that (why waste my time doing that when I can hire a dumb bastard like Steve Rookie to do it? Thus proving the joke was on not just the students but all of the staff). And the bottom line is for him to show up and not talk to the 'school' completely contradicts and undermines the 'cedu philosophy'.  That bastard cunningly figured out how to fuse a cult with a therapuetic 'teen' boarding school.

Cash was half of it and the other half was the ego boost, the high that fat bastard got from it. He probably punched the clown nightly to the thought of the systematic mind control project he created. All those stupid fuckers drinking the Kool aid he brewed up. From headmasters to staff to students to prospective parents. What a rush - all those dumb bastards lining up and willing to pay any amount of money to drink from his tap. Getting grown men to admit to bestality in front of 13 year olds in the name of therapy. Mel is a sick fuck. He sodomized Kahil Gibran's 'the prophet' and rode it all the way to the bank.

So the question remaining is had Cedu not sold to brown schools how would things have played out? How long would it have maintined it's pre-92 course? When would students have finally revolted? How about a rogue ex-staffer with the balls to come forward, find the right resources and call cedu's bluff?
And the internet's role - With the ability to access sites like fornits and civil liberties organizations, what year would the tides have turned and the cedu cult would have been exposed for what it was?

I think think Mel wasserman asked himself these very questions in 1990 and that's why he sold to Brown schools and in turn made a killing from the deal. (Go to any modern day cedu type school, click job opportunities and look at the salary for 'counselors'. It's ridiculous considering the tuition). The $ ain't going to staff. It's going to the man.
Title: sheep under the magnifying lens
Post by: ABOUT TO SNAP on August 22, 2007, 09:38:07 AM
Those pig fucking staff would have blown you away in a heartbeat if they were armed and licensed to do so. Think about it. If you were a three person crew that had been there for six months and they broke us down, not by separating us and using psychological tactics against one another in raps, but by brutality you all would have been ratting each other out just as soon as a pair of pliers was waved in your map.
As soon as I saw that people who were strong willed by nature and would not drink that dang kool- aid didn't last more than a few months, and I took the plunge and did my share of splitting, and that got me starving in the desert for a while, I did concede. I did not bloody break, right. OR maybe I did. You see, of course if we magnify even the slightest bit the extent of the physical or psychological tweakage that they did (forgetting profeets, people) you would begin to see how compliance made mandatory an inability to meet and think freely. That is huge. If you survived in that old CEDU model, you either acted or drank the kook- aid. Your resistance was futile as the longer you 'acted', the worse damage you were expected to inflict on others. That still brings us back to breaking or bending morals for a span.

Acting the part was not in the psychological make up of my 14 year old self. I could either stop being resistant and play their game or be locked up 'til I was 18 OR LONGER. That perpetual threat after the desert business made my splitting or getting thrown out an impossibility. I had not been court ordered. I had not hurt anyone or myself, stolen property, or used drugs. (mostly)
They played on these and other meaningful and meaningless insecurities ad nauseum. After the ruthless raps and a few more profeets I had to change my entire view of the world...to survive psychologically. What I would say to another human being changed over time. How I viewed resistance to the kook- aid changed also as I not only survived, but was rewarded with more food and most importantly- being treated with decency. I viewed younger kids as needing to get further along just to see things my way. That's why they were little brothers. It hurt me to watch them get blown away, so I did it myself to soften the blows. It's strange, but very true. And because I wasn't a frigid, heartless pig- fucker, I tried to give constructive criticism most all of the time.  Mind, it took a few years after CEDU to learn when not to ram constructive criticism down people's throats.  Just wait until I start offering my opinions.

I got through that place all the way. And it was because I BENT that I was able to. What's wrong with that? It was because I bent my resistant will that I survived as intact emotionally and psychologically as I (disturbed, very fucking disturbed) did. I just wish I had been older so I could have shoved a four foot birch round up Mel Wasserman's gilded asshole.

I resisted until I saw it was hopeless. To Break, Believe, or Bend, (over) was the only way to survive the program intact when I was there. And to clarify bending or breaking and being what CEDU wanted you to be would have been the only way to SURVIVE at all if it was just a little more like life in physical extremity. The most visibly resistant would have been the first to die and through interesting torture techniques would've ratted your fake- ass out in the first minute or two. Of course,  you would've been brave and recalcitrant right into a very early grave, leaving a lovely young corpse.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on August 22, 2007, 02:39:10 PM
Well said.

The funny thing is my family to this day would'nt believe any of it. They would say RMA saved my life and made me a good successful person.

They can't even imagine.....
Title: Ridiculous ain't it?
Post by: Anonymous on August 22, 2007, 02:43:15 PM
That's fairly common among progam families. The sons/daughters can be homeless, addicts, and prostitutes--things they never were pre-program--and they'll still say it saved their life.
Title: Ridiculous ain't it?
Post by: Anonymous on August 22, 2007, 02:43:35 PM
That's fairly common among progam families. The sons/daughters can be homeless, addicts, and prostitutes--things they never were pre-program--and they'll still say it saved their life.
Title: Its all a matter of persepective I guess.
Post by: Psianide on September 19, 2007, 12:14:08 AM
I never truly resisted. Part of this I suppose was a product of arriving at NWA via ascent, where I realized early on that no amount of will would change my situation, and that I desperately wanted to do anything to change the most miserable situation of my life. I also wanted to beleive that the CEDU philosophy could help me, because I knew my life needed changing.  

On the other hand a lot of my motivation in compliance was always to keep people off of my back and out of my face. I never fully accepted what was sold by CEDU, because it never seemed grounded in anything concrete or verifiable. I read and used my brain, finding ways to interject outside perspectives into the cult bubble, including reading books that were illicit and had been snuck into the school. I resented CEDU for its maddening derision of all things intellectual. Eventually I entered into a pagan religious circle, worshiping nature and authoring charms to curse the school and some of its members, and to protect runaways. All this while I was a trusted and well thought of upper school student.

So yes, I broke immediately. I kissed so much ass my face was brown,  I narced people out for trivialities, and I behaved in ways Ill never be able to forget. But resistance for me was the commision of thought crime. The king of all agreements was the one that compelled you to accept everything in the doctrine completely and without question, and that was a rabbit hole I could never completely dive into. Inside I was always seething with hatred for the place that had enthralled every aspect of my life, and that never changed.

On the subject of whether the schools got less coercive, this seems to be the conventional wisdom.  I also think it was variable between schools. In the middle of my time at NWA we had some RMA staff brought in (sheila claremont and tony alvarez) and the level of confrontation they brought with them, led to a literal uprising on campus. There was a lot of disorder at NWA and a lot of disregard for certain less serious agreements,  so a lot of what I related isn't that impressive by the standard of shit that went down during my time there. On the other hand, the place was still very totalitarian, and I could have been in deep shit for all that stuff regardless.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: Psianide on September 19, 2007, 12:25:30 AM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
I know it's a grey area but if you had to pick a year that things truly changed. Would it be  1992?  I know the brown school takeover had much to do with it.


I think the NWA riot contributed decisively as well. That happened in 1997 I believe.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on September 19, 2007, 09:16:47 PM
dude that mr. rogers photo is too pedophilia please change it.

I'll do your dishes for a year --


--- holy shit that reminds me...doing someone elses  'dishes/pots&pans' was never classified as dirt.  That's prison style ...

.I can't recall any 'transactions' (bets or black market currency)  for doing more than '2 dish duties'     (Who would be that insane)......  Nor do I recall anyone anyone wagering or offering a bet / proposal to do more than a couple of 'dish duties' per transaction.

What I do remember is Steve almquist fucking up his 1988 comodore generated dish duty list that left me dishduty free for at least  2-3 months. That was a highlight of my  time there. He didn't want to admit he fucked up so he never mentioned it and I never got 'indicted' for it.  I remember every monday morning walking up to the list to see ( on the kitchen wall) my mandatory dreaded dishes - pots&pans duty assignment.  When I didn't see my name posted,  week after week, month after month, it put a grin on my face -  ear to fucking ear.    An illegal  warm fuzzy if you will.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: Psianide on September 19, 2007, 11:36:25 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
dude that mr. rogers photo is too pedophilia please change it.



LMAO, sorry dude, I have a history of "playing attention games". I hope this helps  :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Did you break?
Post by: try another castle on September 20, 2007, 01:52:18 AM
Quote from: ""Psianide""
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
dude that mr. rogers photo is too pedophilia please change it.


LMAO, sorry dude, I have a history of "playing attention games". I hope this helps  :rofl:  :rofl:



Wow, I never thought I would see Ansuz in fornits. Or any rune, for that matter.

Are you prone to divine communication psi?  :)
Title: Did you break?
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on September 20, 2007, 01:02:48 PM
Thanks for getting rid of mr. rogers.

Anyone know How to upload an image from the computer to use as an avatar?

Who/What is ansuz?
Title: Did you break?
Post by: Psianide on September 20, 2007, 11:58:39 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
Thanks for getting rid of mr. rogers.

Anyone know How to upload an image from the computer to use as an avatar?

Who/What is ansuz?


Ansuz is the rune that I am currently using as my avatar. Runes are an ancient alphabet used by the Germanic peoples, and each has a phoenetic value and magickal signifigance. Ansuz has the phoenetic value of "A" and is related to communication and inspiration, it is also closely associated with the god Odin (aka Wotan or Odhinn).
Title: Did you break?
Post by: Psianide on September 21, 2007, 12:04:19 AM
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Quote from: ""Psianide""
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
dude that mr. rogers photo is too pedophilia please change it.


LMAO, sorry dude, I have a history of "playing attention games". I hope this helps  :rofl:  :rofl:


Wow, I never thought I would see Ansuz in fornits. Or any rune, for that matter.

Are you prone to divine communication psi?  :)


I like to think so at least ;). Glad to see there are others here who appriciate the runes. I wasn't really expecting anyone to recognize it.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: try another castle on September 21, 2007, 08:17:59 PM
Quote from: ""Psianide""
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Quote from: ""Psianide""
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
dude that mr. rogers photo is too pedophilia please change it.


LMAO, sorry dude, I have a history of "playing attention games". I hope this helps  :rofl:  :rofl:


Wow, I never thought I would see Ansuz in fornits. Or any rune, for that matter.

Are you prone to divine communication psi?  :)

I like to think so at least ;). Glad to see there are others here who appriciate the runes. I wasn't really expecting anyone to recognize it.



I used to be a runemaker, actually. Had to give it up because I just didn't have time for that and school.
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: If u want to know..then a on September 24, 2007, 07:04:59 PM
Quote from: try another castle
Well, we all broke, to some degree or another, but when I mean break I mean really, really break. You bought into the program in its entirety, even if it took them a while to work on you.....

 I mean, when I got my letter on my second week stating that I was graduating (and knowing my mother, I was definitly graduating) so when they told me that if I yelled at the ground then it would make me feel better, I did it!  I didn't do it to get my point across.  I did it because if I didn't, I KNEW I would hole it up and when my mom DID come to see me, I would most assuredly do something that I was raised NEVER to do and probably haul off and beat my mother up.  (Not my idea of a good thing).  I also smooshed on my first night.  NOT by CHOICE!  The girl who moved me in, I think she was bi or something, PULLED me down to the ground.  So from there on out, EVERYONE called me a look good for that bullshit.  What the hell?  Was I supposed to just sit there and start yelling at people?  

But I NEVER believed in the majority of the ideology.  SOME of things that were said DID make sense, but those were few and far between and mostly from staff who actually spent time with me and appreciated my immense struggles through life thus far and who knew what the hell they were doing (as much as they could without being licensed I guess).

I DID believe in the promise they made me.  Ya know, the "if you go along with the program, you will leave a better person" promise.  The same one that they laid on my mom so tough that she in turn was pushing that on me.  I knew that once I got home after a THREE YEAR tour, and my mom told me she wasted all that money simply because I wanted freedom as an 18 year old and opposed college, the gig was up.  I would NEVER be that good person they promised and especially in my mother's eyes.  For one who seemed to 'waste money' that she got from mortgaging her house three times and was STILL on the scholarship to help pay for part, THATS when I felt broken, FUBAR, and severly discouraged about the years wasted to make me the daughter I had never been seen as.

So yes I broke,  for good reasons but breaking is breaking!  I ran the raps towards the end of my stay, even co-facilitated in some prophets.  I felt for the people that I was affecting by this though were in better hands than I was.  I came from a different place than the people being "paid to do these things" so that was my reward for 'breaking'.
Title: Did you break?
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2007, 08:48:14 AM
I agree with the above post. I think everyone broke to some degree or another. We were kids. I fought as hard as I could against the system. They made my life a living hell, as they did everyone elses. I did 7 ile's in my stay. 89-91. I would straighten out for a little bit and go along with what they said. I'd run my anger at the floor, letting the snot trains flow freely. I'd scream till I busted vessels around my eyes which would leave me with that " you just ran your anger" puffy face.( those snot trains were disgusting!) So I'd do that for a while, and then would figure out nothing changes, time still stands still at that place, and I hated it, so I'd split...only to be brought back to hell, and the cycle starts all over again.

So I'd like to say that I did the best I could to keep my sanity and my "self" at that place. I did split for the last and final time after the Summit and it final worked. All those lies about being locked up or jail or whatever they'd tell us were a lie.. cause I went home. Son of Sebia... we were in the same peer group! Nice to see you are doing well.
Peace!
Title: Did you break?
Post by: If u want to know..then a on September 28, 2007, 03:05:09 PM
Man.  The running your shit thing!  That got to be out of control.  I think I ran (actually by myself) about 6 RAPS right before I left.  The main objective that I followed was that I wouldn't LET people run their shit!  The reason being that I felt like it wasn't much of a tool for anything except to say what was REALLY bothering them while allowing them to put on a 'show' for the staff or the other students.  Now, don't me wrong, people like me actually NEEDED to run theirs once in awhile due to the anger inside of me.  So, it was more of the forum that it should've been from the beginning.  When I facilitated the Truth, the peer group was a little tougher than I had seen in awhile and those kids REALLY were good people.  So, as the 'staff' sat back and figured out which ones we were going to 'go after', I jumped at the opportunity to take on the ones that really needed help, not ridicule.  I still get emails thanking me because they felt that it was the only time they actually got 'real help'.   That was probably the biggest reward I got outta that place.  :)
Title: CEDU
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2007, 05:59:18 PM
hi everyone. I happenend to come across this Forum while searching about CEDU, all the Fires in CA right now got me wondering, and from what I can tell , the site where Cedu once stood in Running Springs CA is gonna be Burnt down

Anyway, LOL I never broke, I will be the First to SAY FUCK CEDU LOL

I broke into faculty cars, stold Cigs from them, Slept with Woman, Our entire room 4 guys had 4 girls come over one night, was one big ORGY I was there in 95/96 I want to say maybe 97. I forgot so much about it till I found this site.


Yeah, I ended up corrupting the system so much they made me leave, and that was hard to do.... oh yeah, ran away to, got down the mountain somewhere in CA but was caught.

I feel bad for kids at Boulder Creek and Northwest, apparently they are re-opened under the UHS company... Anyway, this is great to see a site about it.
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: AuntieEm2 on January 23, 2008, 03:08:25 PM
I've been thinking about this and decided to bump this thread.

I often pester you with these questions. Please forgive information-starved Auntie Em. What happened if you openly resisted? What percentage of students do you think just played along, biding their time? (You all have a term: look-goods, is it?)

I try to picture the experience of being forced to let go of some essential part of your self. What is that like? Can you tell me more about this?

Auntie Em

 
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: alia23 on January 23, 2008, 04:26:45 PM
we had a song:

look at him he's a look good look good,  lookin' good.

look at her she's a look good look good, lookin' good.

everyone was a look good.  there was no truth to the program so all you could do is more and more determinedly accept the obviously plot hole ridden story.  but thats a lot like faith in jesus man, not a lot of difference there, faith is faith....

i dont know what i was.  there were times i thought if i was all cedu wanted me to be then my parents would love me again.  there were a lot of times i beleived what they told me i was, a whore, just in case they were right....i tend to play it safe, so, i figured i should make sure i am not a slut.  then, woops, i guess i am so terrified of intimacy i will just be celibate, otherwise i just can't seem to stop attacking the guys i am seeing for turning me on!  dont they know i am a whore and if i get turned on i will loose control!!?? don't they know what they are getting themselves into by being with me????

so i just stayed alone, for a long long time...

did they break me?  you betcha.  and i never thought what they were doing was right, and i never agreed with them, but i completely gave in.  i accepted that even though i did not see it that way, that was how society saw it, and for the sake of society i submitted.  brilliant.  exponentially brilliant.

see, here's the flaw....  if i were a sociopath, they would never have reformed my behavior that way because i wouldnt have given a damn about society, and the fact that i did, proves that i didn't need to be tortured into caring about society in the first place.  its a loose loose.  so stupid. 

its our world now, lets take it.
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: AuntieEm2 on January 23, 2008, 05:10:30 PM
Conveniently, they keep you away from the whole of society, so you don't have a chance to compare their version with reality. Those critical thinking skills we were talking about.

Quote
there were times i thought if i was all cedu wanted me to be then my parents would love me again.
Aw, honey. How dare they break your heart like that.

Auntie Em
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: try another castle on January 24, 2008, 01:14:10 AM
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
I've been thinking about this and decided to bump this thread.

I often pester you with these questions. Please forgive information-starved Auntie Em. What happened if you openly resisted? What percentage of students do you think just played along, biding their time? (You all have a term: look-goods, is it?)

I try to picture the experience of being forced to let go of some essential part of your self. What is that like? Can you tell me more about this?

Auntie Em

 

Consequences for open resistance was dependent on 1. what the infraction was, and 2. Whether the staff who decided your punishment liked you.

If they liked you, this was no guarantee that you would be let off easy. A lot of times, this made things worse, because they wanted to "help" you.

It could be anything from a work detail, to a booth/table, living room, full time or other kind of restriction. Bans was always a part of it. For more serious infractions, you could be sent to survival wilderness in southern idaho and have to subsist on rice, lentils and whatever bugs/game you could catch/trap. If it was really bad, they would kick you out, which normally resulted in the parents placing you elsewhere.

Like Alia said, you didn't even have to do anything wrong to get heat. You could be accused of being a look good and faking your way through the program. Hell, I got in trouble in Challenge for no reason whatsoever. They put me on work details and sent me through the truth propheet again, because I was "stagnating", i.e. not progressing through the program at the pace I should be... not "going for broke" in raps and the like. This is why I hated Brett Carey. (He was my family head in challenge.) Everyone says "oh, brett was such a great guy." No he wasn't. He was a stupid fucking preppy ex-frat boy who came off cool because he was charismatic and had a good sense of humor. He looked right at me in one of his raps and said to me "You need help." As a result, he put me on bans, a work detail and a rehash of the truth propheet, along with another guy in my peer group who was apparently being accused of the same thing. Thanks, but I don't need that kind of help, white boy.

Hate to break it to you Brett fans, the guy was a program tool, and so was his bitch cunt wife, Lisa. Fuck both of them, and fuck their horrible LL Bean fashion sense. Stupid fucking yuppie fucks.


As for students playing along. I have absolutely no idea. It was impossible for me to tell, and I have a feeling, it was also impossible for the staff, even though they pretended that they were able to ferret out the look goods.

The narcissist in me says that all of the students were playing along... except me. I was the only one stupid enough to believe in that shit. Of course, this is wrong.
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on January 24, 2008, 09:16:52 AM
Castle's once again painted an accurate picture of the late 80's RMA. (IMO, applicable to 1980 - 1991 at both RS and RMA)

It was a Russian Roulet environment where the following:

1. Too little effort (you resistant little bastard)

2. Middle of the road effort (you think you can slide by? You're gonna fail when you leave here)

3. Too much effort (you just don't get it - you'll never be in touch)


meant you were guilty of...


"not "going for broke" in raps and the like"


"The Heat" - We were always trying to dodge it - but you knew you couldn't.

Brett and Lisa were definitely program tools. Every staff member there was a stooge. (Except the exceptions to the rule, Greg Burton - Will Vernard)
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: shanlea on January 28, 2008, 04:48:18 PM
No, Alia they weren't playing along... even the ones playing along weren't playing along. Its a strange dialectical existence.
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: AuntieEm2 on January 29, 2008, 04:18:00 PM
For the record, I don't see anything right or wrong in playing along, not playing along, believing in CEDU, not believing in CEDU, "succeeding" or "not succeeding." For me, from the outside looking in, you were in a highly manipulative situation, with a significant power differential between the staff and the students, in a physically and socially isolated setting, at a time of life when you were vulnerable--all in a rigged game. Seems to me from all I've read here that you did what you needed to do to survive, body and soul. 

DDF wrote:
Quote
It was a Russian Roulet environment
That paints quite a picture. Sounds scary.

Shanlea wrote:
Quote
Its a strange dialectical existence.
Could you explain a little more?

Auntie Em
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2008, 05:52:53 PM
I was a Cascade Survivor - but most everyone in charge of the place had been CEDU at one time or another.  From speaking to those who havebeen in CEDU, it sounds pretty much the same.  Same psycho-counselors, same cultish feel...but I digress

I was dropped off at the school a little more than 6 months before my 18th birthday.  I knew from day one that there was no way to escape without playing the game, and that there was no way out for 6 months.  I tried to stay the same, to stay me...and I fared better than most (probably due to the fact that I knew there was a time limit at which they could no longer legally hold me) but the real effects were no visable until after I left.

I had ZERO confidence left, no sense of self or purpose.  My goal had been to survive, but I was left as a shell of what I had been.  I turned to vices as a way of escaping the reality that I no longer knew how to be me - which led to trouble that took years to sort out.  Not to mention the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which still haunts my sleep. 

Did they break me - no
But they sure as hell bent me out of shape for a long time
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: robert1288 on September 02, 2008, 12:49:35 AM
Yeah, I like that, didn't break but was sure bent out of shape.

I don't think I ever saw this great evil that the place was (RMA -84), I figured that they may be right, just that it wasn't the thing for me.

Looking back 20+ years later, I really can't see too much wrong with the place, after all, what else was there? Was I going to leave and take up a career as a McDonalds french-fry technician? And at 37, of course I have heard enough of the 'yah I'm going to be a rock-star, football hero, whatnot' to realize that it's just a bunch of B.S. There was alot of nonsense at the place, but hell, you'll see that everywhere. Don't make it right, but call it experience.

If anything it was great training for being in the army, in fact it makes me chuckle at the similarities between the RMA rituals and what the army does. Both organizations are a joke as far as I'm concerned. But echoing my previous comment, if not for the army, what else could we have? And is their any coincidence between what went on there and the fact that I am now an interrogator? hmm...

I really loved the grounds though, going up into the hills behind the school and such. And please don't think I am pro-RMA or something, I mean really, a propheet? what the hell were they smoking?
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: try another castle on September 02, 2008, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: "robert1288"
Yeah, I like that, didn't break but was sure bent out of shape.

I don't think I ever saw this great evil that the place was (RMA -84), I figured that they may be right, just that it wasn't the thing for me.

Looking back 20+ years later, I really can't see too much wrong with the place, after all, what else was there? Was I going to leave and take up a career as a McDonalds french-fry technician? And at 37, of course I have heard enough of the 'yah I'm going to be a rock-star, football hero, whatnot' to realize that it's just a bunch of B.S. There was alot of nonsense at the place, but hell, you'll see that everywhere. Don't make it right, but call it experience.

If anything it was great training for being in the army, in fact it makes me chuckle at the similarities between the RMA rituals and what the army does. Both organizations are a joke as far as I'm concerned. But echoing my previous comment, if not for the army, what else could we have? And is their any coincidence between what went on there and the fact that I am now an interrogator? hmm...

I really loved the grounds though, going up into the hills behind the school and such. And please don't think I am pro-RMA or something, I mean really, a propheet? what the hell were they smoking?

Robert, is 1288 the day of your graduation? (I wasn't sure, since you said 84) But if it was 12/88, you graduated exactly a year before me.

I also love that bend not break thing. What breaks? Rigid, brittle things. What bends? Bendy stuff. Adaptable bendy stuff.
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: robert1288 on September 02, 2008, 02:18:06 AM
Graduate? (chuckle) no, I got kicked out, in 1985 or 1986, not sure which. It's a point of pride for me to be kicked out of that place.

But if you graduated in '89? No that was too far past my time, the program was only 2 years long I think... I stayed at the 'Hobbit', which was the chicken coop just downhill from the main building.

I meant what I said though, if there was alot of B.S. at RMA, the army is the same thing. In my 4 years here I have seen people awarded medals for drunk driving, torturing Iraqis, and using drugs. No wonder the place (RMA) was allowed to exist! There are evil people everywhere and the only true lesson I can take from that place is that people need to stand up for what's right and never show fear in the battle for the morality. (perhaps that's even a little too corny for me)

Oh, and I have done in a few 6-packs tonight, so please excuse me!
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2008, 11:17:55 PM
Hey, there's nothing corny about standing up for what is right my friend.   Or doing it in spite of fear.  
It those freakin scary times that we stand our ground that show us who we are. Sounds like you have been through some harrowing times but they did not destroy your moral center.  That gives me faith...
Title: Broken...?
Post by: Anonymous Artist on October 07, 2008, 12:58:15 AM
I ALWAYS knew the things that happened at CEDU were wrong.  Iíd ended up at CEDU because a computer predator had made me his target and my parents got some bad information from a shrink on what to do about it.  I fought the program tooth and nail for months after my arrival in July of 1994.  Eventually, they sent me to Ascent for splitting and I BEGGED my parents to not return me to CEDU in letters that were ultimately never sent to them.

When I did arrive in Running Springs again, I was pretty grateful for having my 5-minute shower everyday and something resembling a warm bed.  For a little while, I received some small amount of positive reinforcement from the staff/students and reacted like a caged animal that had been thrown a bone.  I was even willing to play the game, lay low, not get in trouble and point a finger if it meant saving my skin at someone elseís expense.

Once the false indictments arose again I remembered why I knew I didn't belong there.  Then, over a period of 6 months in a series of very lucky events (some planned by me, and others that had to be divine intervention) I managed to get pulled out.  I spent a total of one year at that hellhole.  Did I break?  No.  I still have myself.  That will never change.  However, it's now my responsibility to glue together the broken pieces of my strange history.  Iím an adult now; itís my job to care for myself.  They didnít break me, but they did do some serious damage.  Repairs are in progress.  Unjust? Sure it is.  Such is the nature of the human condition.  I suppose I'm lucky to still have my sanity and what's left of my intelligence.  Still, I wonder what I could have accomplished if CEDU hadn't imprisoned the plaintiff.  Death would have been a kinder fate.
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: Awake on October 07, 2008, 06:11:46 PM
Whoa! That sounds just like what happened to me except I was a there about a year or so after you. Split, went to Ascent, back to Cedu. As much as Ascent sucked, once I was there for awhile I wondered why everyone made such a big deal about it. It was always held over us as the biggest threat imaginable and when someone got sent they always made sure to announce it at house around the pit so everyone knew it could be them too if they screwed up. But I remember thinking it was a vacation compared to a full-time (even though I was on a couch restriction for a couple weeks after I got back). However I was also relieved to get back to Cedu and have the basic amenities of a normal life. I'm pretty sure it was about that time I stopped resisting and just did what I had to to get by. A fairly good indicator of how deeply I played the game, or how severly I was "broken", is when I was a dormhead and had to have one of my dorm mates on a hygene restriction. I had to make sure he brushed his teeth, put on deoderant, used shampoo and lathered up properly and I'd have to report to my team leader every day (shudder). Yeah at Ascent we bathed every two weeks in groups in the hygen tent by pouring buckets of cold water over ourselves while standing in an ankle deep bucket of water, but that's not quite as shocking of a memory as remembering actually monitoring and reporting on someone's hygene habits. So I guess I broke, I dunno, I didn't think so when I left. But next to my bed I have three extra pillows and blankets because lately I wake up drenched in sweat so often I have to switch them. So they must have gotten to me more than I thought.
Title: Re: Did you break?
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2008, 09:50:30 PM
Just want to check to see if I can post.