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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: laurabk on April 30, 2005, 01:54:00 PM

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: laurabk on April 30, 2005, 01:54:00 PM

It's been about 2 years since I got out of that place and I still think about it every damn day. I remember the feelings I would wake up with everyday there... the worst feeling ever. I can't even describe it.. it was the most surreal feeling I've ever experienced. I felt like a caged animal.. constantly nervous and vulnerable. I was a total mess. Scared shitless of being dropped even when I knew I had done nothing "against the rules." It was ridiculous. I would almost have a heart attack waiting for my family rep and couselor to come to Group. This, in my opinion, IS emotional abuse. They knew damn well that I was scared and anxious and they loved it. They wanted me to be in a vulnerable frame of mind so they could twist around my thoughts into how they wanted me to think and act. I was only there for 4 months, thank god, but I went thru the Discovery and Focus seminars and I dont think I have EVER in my life been so scared. Literally shaking, holding back tears.. feeling completely out of control and confused. These people feed on fear and they need to be put in jail.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2005, 02:43:00 PM

Hi Laura, welcome to the forums. There are many people here who can relate to what you've been thorugh at Cross Creek. And I agree with you completely-- these people should be put to jail.

This forum is rather new, by the way-- most of the WWASP related discussion is taking place ta the Teen Help Industry forum right now.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2005, 07:06:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-04-30 10:54:00, laurabk wrote:

"It's been about 2 years since I got out of that place and I still think about it every damn day. I remember the feelings I would wake up with everyday there... the worst feeling ever. I can't even describe it.. it was the most surreal feeling I've ever experienced. I felt like a caged animal.. constantly nervous and vulnerable. I was a total mess. Scared shitless of being dropped even when I knew I had done nothing "against the rules." It was ridiculous. I would almost have a heart attack waiting for my family rep and couselor to come to Group. This, in my opinion, IS emotional abuse. They knew damn well that I was scared and anxious and they loved it. They wanted me to be in a vulnerable frame of mind so they could twist around my thoughts into how they wanted me to think and act. I was only there for 4 months, thank god, but I went thru the Discovery and Focus seminars and I dont think I have EVER in my life been so scared. Literally shaking, holding back tears.. feeling completely out of control and confused. These people feed on fear and they need to be put in jail. "

Really?  Is that true?

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2005, 07:29:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-04-30 16:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Quote

On 2005-04-30 10:54:00, laurabk wrote:


"It's been about 2 years since I got out of that place and I still think about it every damn day. I remember the feelings I would wake up with everyday there... the worst feeling ever. I can't even describe it.. it was the most surreal feeling I've ever experienced. I felt like a caged animal.. constantly nervous and vulnerable. I was a total mess. Scared shitless of being dropped even when I knew I had done nothing "against the rules." It was ridiculous. I would almost have a heart attack waiting for my family rep and couselor to come to Group. This, in my opinion, IS emotional abuse. They knew damn well that I was scared and anxious and they loved it. They wanted me to be in a vulnerable frame of mind so they could twist around my thoughts into how they wanted me to think and act. I was only there for 4 months, thank god, but I went thru the Discovery and Focus seminars and I dont think I have EVER in my life been so scared. Literally shaking, holding back tears.. feeling completely out of control and confused. These people feed on fear and they need to be put in jail. "

Really?  Is that true?  "

Yes, it is, you motherfucking WWASPie. That girl is telling the truth.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on April 30, 2005, 10:20:00 PM

Welcome Laura.

Have you ever thought to yourself "God, if only we could have this conversation out in the more comonly accepted reality.... :exclaim: "? Well I did. And I want to take a moment to express my deep gratitude to our anon friend here for helping to fulfil one of my long held dreams. [sniff!  :cry: ] I just can't tell you how much it means to me.

If that's appealing to you, well here's your chance! By all means, have at it. If not, just ignore the trolls and focus on what you like.

Either way, welcome.

Any policy that has Ted Byfield on the same side as many Rastafarians can fairly be said to have generated a consensus.
-- Ottawa Citizen August 28, 1997

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: BuzzKill on April 30, 2005, 10:49:00 PM

Laura's account closely mirrors my son's account.
He also felt the emotional distress was unendurable and took the worst toll; and he has also said jail is MUCH easier. After WWASP - Jail was a simple thing, hardly worth worrying about. This isn't what I was hoping for - as a parent.

BTW - I agree - the perpatrators of this abuse should be in jail - or rather Prison.

[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-04-30 19:52 ]

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2005, 01:42:00 AM

I remeber something really fucking weird about CCM. When I was there a short while, a girl from the upper phase campus stabbed her roomate. It was so surreal. We didnt really find out more than they wanted us to know about it, but I remember they didnt explain why it happened.

Crazy.

ginger, the more I think about it the more I realize CCM was not a good place. I can relate to the feelings of fear. Feeling scared to drop even when I hadnt done anything really wrong. I remeber soem staff members that i had forgotten that were very rude and verbally abusive. Anyone remember Ron Garret? My friend Jess and I were discussing today about how much he sucked. And David Gilcrese? How can anyone say he is a helpful good man. And I found out through a friend that my therapist was fired because he wasnt licenced to be a therapist for the things we were doing. And I found out from a really awsome staff member who quit, that they had a policy that if two girls got the same category, the one with the parents who could afford to keep her their longer would drop to phase one 0 points. The one with the parents who had little money only dropped a phase or two. It was scandelous. And she quit for various other unethical reasons. Some staf members really were there because they wanted to help the kids. I appreciated them. But I can see now ginger, the program uses intimidation to make people afraid and therfore more suceptible to brainwashing. It makes sense. Perri is going to be pissy at me, but I can see more about it now that is the truth. It wasnt physically abusive to me. But I can see how that is mental abuse. And Perri can agree wiht me that Ron Garret can be mentally abusive. I dotn think it is entirely evil, just for the most part. And the way they try to get you to change is wrong. And they dont know everything. But I do remember I liked discovery because of Jan. I would attend her seminar outside the program. And her Keys were pretty interesting too. Focus was so so and Accountability was fucking stupid. So Im going to stop babbaling now. Its been hard to come to these realizations about the program, so I get kinda sidetracked. Just kind of confessing in a way I guess. Well, Thanks for anyone who listens.
Amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 19, 2005, 03:50:00 PM

Amanda, I think it's wonderful that you're figuring this stuff out. If you understand it then you probably won't repeat the same patterns in future relationships.

And I deeply appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the matter with all of us. One of the reasons I never joined any action against Straight was that it was always about the overt violence and I thought that missed the mark. And that's why I'm especially interested in CCM over other LGA type programs.

I never did think that everyone involved in these programs was working from evil motives. For the most part, they believe that what they're doing is good and right and helpful, if unpleasant. Even David Gilcreace and Pepper Spray Jay probably tell themselves that and believe it.

But I don't think they understand the harm they do to people any more than doctors in the `50's who advised new mothers to take 6 weeks bed rest after a normal delivery, for example. The difference is that the real medical field has a strong tradition and public policy in place to help weed out bad practices. The troubled parent industry has only us.

The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst.
--Andrew Dickson

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2005, 04:11:00 PM

Its kinda funny. I remember in support meetings after I graduated, people were discussing how there were allegations that WWASPs programs were abusive and we all disagreed. Out of ignorance. But now that i know I wish I could go back and tell them the truth. Not that they would listen. sigh
I also remember soem heads of the program having us high phase girls go to a place to talk about how the program helped us. Now that I think about it, it is all a big cycle. They brainwash you, then they use you to recruit new kids, then they send you home unprepared for real life, and then you "relapse".

I am thinking of going into the early child development education field in college next semester. Or social work for kids from abusive homes. My Mom has alot of friends who could maybe help further this plight to stop the child abuse at these programs. I just want to do something to help, considering I have been blind to alot of this for a while. And I feel I was contirbuting to the problem not the solution. Anything I can do?
Amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 19, 2005, 04:34:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-19 13:20:00, Cayo Hueso wrote:

You're doing the best thing right now, educating yourself and talking about what you went though. Everyone has their own way of helping, you'll find your nitch I have NO doubt!  

I quite agree. I don't think those little recruiting junkets would be so successful if even a few audience members had a heads up on them. And there are so damned many of us who went through these programs. But, till fairly recently, no former Seedling or Straightling or whatever would have recognized the Program when they heard terms like boot camp or TBS. And vice versa. That's changing.

"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppression of both mind and body will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day."
Thomas Jefferson

I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others.  Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

--Abraham Lincoln

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2005, 11:42:00 AM

Ok yesterday it wouldnt let me reply and now it will so great. i had a long talk last night with my mom about CCM. She was shocked at what I told her about the forum and the abuse at Straight, Ive ridge, CCM, ect. She and I talked about something interesting. Her ex boyfriend, who was one of the people who helped my parents find a program for me, I really dislike and still do. He is a controlling bastard and my Mom and I were lucky enough to get away from him after I came home from CCM. But she remembered that when they had to go through Discovery to get to go through seminars with me, he pitched a fit in the seminar. He asked for credentials and asked for their lisence to practice therapy. When they didnt give him that and they made his wanting credentials abotu him being manipulative he walked out of the seminar and refused to go to any of them. He was a bastard, but he knew what was up. I remember when he told me how he disliked the way they were doing things at CCM, I got so defensive and mad at him. Guess I should have payed more attention. And we were alos talking about when they woudlnt let my Mom talk to me and she pitched a fit, they told her she was being "controlling" and if she wanted me to get better, she had to "let go". She might come join the forum soon which I think woudl be a good thing for her to see whats going on.
Amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 21, 2005, 12:11:00 PM

Quote

And we were alos talking about when they woudlnt let my Mom talk to me and she pitched a fit, they told her she was being "controlling" and if she wanted me to get better, she had to "let go"

"Letting go" does NOT mean abdicating parental responsibility or knowledge of whats going on with your child, or cutting off contact.

Unless I am mistaken, the *ONLY* reason to cut off a child from contact with loved ones/family and especially their parents or guardians, is if that person is abusive to them.

Sorry, but that just strikes me as typical program bullshit.

They came with a Bible and their religion- stole our land, crushed our spirit... and now tell us we should be thankful to the 'Lord' for being saved.
--Chief Pontiac, American Indian Chieftain

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 21, 2005, 04:44:00 PM

Amanda (and everybody), sorry about the forum being flakey lately. We're fending off a DOS attack over in the Straight forum and, well, we made a few mistakes along the way. I think it's all better now. But we're still tweaking. I know we accidentally blew out all of Cayo Hueso's posts in the last three weeks or so (since her IP address changed) I'm trying to get those back from the backup. If you notice anyone else who's gone missing or if you hear of anyone who got banned for no good reason, please tell them to contact us. It's no bother at all, it would be nothing but helpful.

ty

On another note, maybe you should drop the old bastard a line and thank him for paying attention. His hissy fit probably helped a lot of people get a clue, even if they didn't put it all together and act on it right away.

Oh, and I look forward to hearing from your mom. But please tell her to brace herself for some hostile responses. It's difficult for ppl to understand where the parents are coming from sometimes. But it helps a LOT when parents tough it out and speak their peace on the matter.

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.
--Thomas Paine

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2005, 11:44:00 PM

Niles,
You dont have to apologize. I agree.

Ginger,
Well, he lives on a beach with his mother and they drink martinis all day, so I dont think if I even thanked him he would care. He saw through the bullshit, yes, but I would rather spend a week locked up in a room full of my Dad and Step Moms Right wing Presbyterian friends than talk to him for one minute, so there you have it.

My Mom is a great person. Im not sure if she will actually get on here. Shes a super busy lady. But she might if Im over and am on the website or something. I agree her perspective might help alot.
Amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 22, 2005, 02:44:00 AM

Sorry to hear about your step dad. I think you can't live w/ someone w/o coming to love them just a little. It's sad when they're unable or unwilling or just too cowardly to reciprocate.

Sounds like you and your mom have teamed up on scammers and bullies lately.  That is just SO good to hear! :nworthy:

My dad and I got along just fine once we were able to talk like reasonable human beings about all that bad water under the bridge. Any random quotes you might see attributed to Crazy Mac, that's him. He was a real living, breathing hero to me, despite his flaws and misteps. WTF, he eventually forgave all of mine!

 

Don't hate the media. Become the media

--Jello Biafra

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 22, 2005, 09:55:00 PM

Dear Ginger,
No no! Thank God he never became my step dad. My Mom and I made a bold move to move away after a while and he moved on and away. We later come to find out that he was actually Gay! (not that being gay is bad by any means, just that he lied to us and my Mom and that pissed us off) Thats why he never called my mom beautiful or complimented her and treated us like houseworkers! :roll:

Its funny. My mom and I were talking about how in the past we would attribute our good relationship to the program. Eventually after I came home, we fought just as hard and just as often and as before the program, I had to eventually move away. We finally started being friends when I decided my Mom is an incredible person and started to realize how very much alike we are. (in good ways and bad) Once I started realizing this and apologized from my heart, not just because I had to, we became closer than ever. We still fight but not nearly as much as before. I guess you are all right about that. Soemtimes it just takes a little growing up before you realize your parents arent the evil embarrasing people you thought they were as teenagers. (unless, like in your case, they are.) And I came to these realizations after I relapsed and quit going to AA. I dont know if that means anything, but perhaps it does. And now that I think about it, I am WAY different then I was in the program. Different from how I was before too, yes. But I didnt think listening to "non working" music was ok in the program. Now I listen to stuff I woudlnt dare listening to in CCM. I remember getting into fights with my friend Ashley (not Perri, another Ashley from Colo.) about how she felt the program was wrong for thinking music could make a person relapse. I agree, it does impact your feelings to a cerytain extent. That is hopefully what the artist is trying to convey. But it certainly wont make you do anything. Isnt that what the program says? No one can make you do anything? You choose to do it? Then wouldnt relapse be considered a choice and not something music, cloths, friends make you do? I remember PC1. Did you all have to go to that seminar? Its a seminar where you are working through your issues wiht your parents AND peers. It was horrible and since my parents were divorced, I went through it twice. After you have this extememly emotional talk with your parents, you have a exercise with your peers about making a home contract. You went into groups and talked about the various things you would put on a home contract and made it up to present to the adults. They basically set you up to fail, because all the kids put stuff on there that the program thougt was innapropriate. If you didnt make your home contract to fit how they thought it should be, you got yelled at. I remember the second time I did it, I knew what they were up to, so I warned my group not to put certain things on the contract. They didnt listen and of course, got yelled at. Then after you were reemed by David Gilcrese for an hour, the parents went away and the kids stayed to give feedback to each other about how you were "showing up" in the seminar. All these fucking people from other programs who didnt even know me gave me feedback! It was ridiculous. If they didnt talk to me, they said I was being a ghost and was giving up my power to the group. Ha! Its funny in a not so funny kind of way. I still have my seminar folder and the home contract guidelines if you want me to post it on the website to give you soem idea of how they set oyu up to come home. It is so strict. No one I know even followed it for a week, let alone 6 months like they tell you to.
I remember in PC1 how David Gilcrese came up to me and said "I hear about how "good" your doing, but I think you arent even close to being the strong person everyone says you are. I think you have alot of male acceptance issues oyu need to deal with now." First off, I had no male acceptance issues. I simply did not have an opinion one way or the other about males. If anything, based on my life wiht my distant dad and my overbearign step dad who dies when I was 13 and my neo nazi asshole "male" friends from HS, I generally didnt respect guys and had no problem not havign any in my life. Dont think that makes me have male acceptance issues. He is such an ass.
 Amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 22, 2005, 10:29:00 PM

Hey ginger,
I know this is off topic, but how do you register? I tried and the Ip adress and all that confused me. Can you help?
Amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 22, 2005, 10:46:00 PM

Wow, Amanda, you're so clear headed. I wish I had as much on the ball at your age as you do now.

I don't think it's insignificant that you started sorting things out when you quit going to indoctrination sessions. Also very glad you didn't buy into the self fulfiling prophesy and "hit rock bottom" as a result!

I remember a time when my oldest daughter was still in diapers. I was so, so confused. After the Program and a couple of very abusive, overly controling romantic interests, I was just.... perplexed. I questioned everything I ever thought I knew. I even had to leave an open jar of jelly in the cabinet just to see if the "refrigerate after opening" warning was legit.  :smile: (I need to find a shrug icon) It worked out. Some stuff didn't. The jelly, of course, went moldy.

Quote

I remember getting into fights with my friend Ashley (not Perri, another Ashley from Colo.) about how she felt the program was wrong for thinking music could make a person relapse. I agree, it does impact your feelings to a cerytain extent. That is hopefully what the artist is trying to convey. But it certainly wont make you do anything. Isnt that what the program says? No one can make you do anything?

Classic slight of mind. In The Seed and Straight, the term was "druggie music". And I have to hand it to the new wave of programs. They've managed to take the whole script of the original jihad against unauthorized euphorea and edit it to fit any situation. Music can be pretty impactful. If you listen closely and think about what you're hearing, good music makes you think and feel. How you act on those thoughts and feelings is another question entirely. But, under Program rules, you're only supposed to think what they want about what they have told you.

And there's an endless, inavoidable list of things that will make you relapse. It's almost a dead certainty that 100% of Program graduates, splits and pulls will engage in some of these taboo activitis. Especially those that are the more demanding human needs! And you're right, it is a clearly visible cycle to anyone who stays in touch w/ Program vets. Everybody relapses, except for those who make a career of Program involvement. And, when they do, it's attributed to the breaking of one or more of those impossible taboos.

(I remember walking through the mall on a 5th phase permission, sweating over enjoying the muzak...)

We didn't have the seminars. Instead, we had weekly or twice weekly open meetings w/ the parents (depending on the era of incarceration) There are many accounts of open meetings followed by open meeting review in these forums and related links. So I'll spare you the gorey details and suffice it to say that the basic idea was about the same.

We also had rediculous requirements for being a graduate or 7th stepper in good standing. No boy/girl relationships for a year, I think it was? Are you shittin me?! You mean to tell me that you've kept me in a warehouse, within sight, smell and almost arms reach w/ a group of the opposite sex, never let us socialize in any way, let along consumating a burning desire. I'm 18. It's been two years, and you now expect me to not run out and get laid??? ROFL

Yes, unreasonable. And that wasn't anywhere near the most difficult condition to navigate around.

So, of the graduates you know who didn't stick w/ the exit plan, how many do you know who actually got sent back or threatened w/ it? I remember a few staff or graduate startovers at Straight. But, for the most part, I think those were only the kids who's parents dissapeared and those who's parents were so into it that they'd stay involved even if the kid bounced off.

I don't remember the whole aftercare regimen of surveilance and intimidation doing much but to drive people off.

--

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 22, 2005, 10:56:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-22 19:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hey ginger,

I know this is off topic, but how do you register? I tried and the Ip adress and all that confused me. Can you help?

Amanda"

IP address? You should be able to just fill out the registration form (click "Register" from the list to the left) It doesn't ask anything about IP addresses. Did you try registering and have trouble? We have made a lot of changes to the program lately. Please let me know. Feel free to aim, email or call if you want.

Or are you asking about how IP addresses help w/ identification? The short answer is, it doesn't make a difference whether you're registered or not. Every hit to every website that has the default server settings gets logged, whether you post or not; whether you post anon or not.

Is that more in line w/ what you're asking?

It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2005, 04:47:00 PM

I remember my therapist (the one who got fired secretly because he wasnt qualified to do the therapy we were doing) did a "process" for me. Basically my parents sent him all my old stuff, (had some awsome T-shirts and CD collection that is now forever gone. Bastards!) T-shirts, pants, posters, odds and ends, pipes, screens, bags, books, CDs, you name it, he had it. He used them to set up a senario of my life at home to teach me how bad it was. They got some upper phase girls to play me and my friends (it was so off from how I was it was funny) and played all the music I love and adore. My friend Jess played a friend of mine and basically yelled at me for an hour about how my firends were usign me and how this "image" was destroying me, ect. After that I vowed never to listen to that music again, engage in that type of stuff again. I remember at the upper phase facility, we could listen to the radio and the only stations there were classic rock (though not the good kind) and a hip hop station. Since I cant stand hip hop for the most part I listened to Classic rock. Since I wasnt "supposed" to listen to that kind of music I was always nervous when Led Zeppelin or the Doors or Jimi or Jethro Tull  came on. i woudl get knots in my stomach over listening to Crosstown traffic! It was silly. I remember I had myself convinced that Dave Matthew was evil and drug music. Dave! I get so mad at myself now, to think that I thought I was doing well, better than others in the program, when really it was just easier to brainwash me I guess. Sigh...

Most of the reason peple in PC1 got in trouble wa because they wanted to date. Apparently that was bad for them. In Aa they say dotn date till you have a plant for a year and have a pet for a year more. That is just totally not reasonable. Kids especially are going to date regardless of a home contract. I think that it isnt that dating is wrong. If you really care for the person and are ok with sex and the possibility of getting pregnant, or if you dont and just are havign sex, if you are intelligent and responsible enough to be careful and protect yourself that really matters.

Personally i think its funny cuz I wonder how many of those righteous program followers and owners have cheated on their wife/husband, lied about having sex, had sex before marriage when they were teens, ect.

No one I know was threatened with it because they were all 18 or very close to 18 when they went home.

Thought Id post some of the home contract stuff here to show you what Im talking about (and they feel home contracts will keep you sober and integrate you back into society well. This is their only tool to uninstitutionalize kids)

AFTER CARE PROGRAM
Each family must have a strong structured program which includes the following:
-24/7 structure
-Daily monitering
-Support activities- Parent support group, tasks staffing, NA/AA type support group
-After care home contract- Point Advancement, Vote for level move up
-Family activites
-Service project

-----------------------------------------------
AFTER CARE PROGRAM HOME CONTRACT
-Level System Basis Framework
-6 levels
-Daily refelctions
-Daily grading
-Daily review
-Daily point total

-House Rules- Addressing Individual Differences
-Curfew
-Household duties
-Household privliges- Tv, computer, telephone
-Peer aproval process
-dating/social
-clothing
-music
-school- homework, sports, activites
- Na/AA meetings
-Parent support group
-tasks staffing
-family activites
-----------------------------------------------
Aftercare Daily Objective
-I will not talk back, be argumentative, or show lack of respect to my parents.
-I will not through my attituede, facial expressions, voice tone, or gestures be oppositional and defiant
-I will not be rude, unkind, or inconsiderate to parents, siblings, or others
-I will not be moody or withdrawn, I will maintain a positive cheerful attitude.
- I will not push limits or pester PArents to do something outside the Level privleges
- I will keep my room clean and household chores completed in a timly mannar
-I will follow program dress and grooming rules
-I will complete my daily homework assignment
- I will be respnosive to all parental direction or request and I will contribute to the family
-I will be totally up front and honest with all my dealings

SCORING:
3- exemplary- completely met daily objectives without a single flaw
2-good- for hte most part met daily objectives
1-improvement needed
0-unsatisfactory
------------------------------------------------
LEVEL PRIVLEGES
Level 1-
Phone- no answering phone, parent listening, time limit
Music only approved by parents and played in common area
Computer- only with parent watching screen and activity monitered
Activites- no activites wihtout parent or responsible adult supervision
Daily review- Weekly academic progress report
Monthly random drug test

Level 2-
Phone- may answer if parent is in same room, limited time(increase at level 2)
Computer- Only when paretn is in same room and monitered use4, limited email use
Music- approved by parents and played in room no headphones
Activited- No activites w/out parent or responsible adult supervision
Daily review- weekly academic progress report
Monthly random drug tests

Level 3-
Phone- in common area and extended time for calls
Computer- no chat rooms, ect
Music- purchase by teen but subject to parent approval and monitering
Activity- 0ne non parent activity per week approved based on activity, location, and only with approved peer (no dating)
Job w parental approval
Driving- to work w monitering
daily review- weekly academic report
Montly random drug tests

Level 4-
Phone- open w approved peers only
computer- as approved by parents
Activity- 2 non parent activites a week approved on activity, location, and only w approved peer (no dating)
Driving- to work and approved activited only
Review 3 x per week- bi weekly academic report
Random drug screens

Level 5- VOTE UP REQUIRED
activity- up to 3 non parent activites per week approved based on activity, location, and only w approved peer
Dating- wiht parental approval
Driving- to work and approved activites
Review- 3x per week- Bi weekly academic report
Random drug test

Level 6- VOTE UP REQUIRED
Open privleges as approved by parent
Weekly review- bi weekly academic report
Drug test as desired

Must maintain 25 points on each weekly evaluation on level 6 or goes back to level 5 w 1500 points.
Category 4 and 5 rule violations result in returning to level 1 status or return to the program
Any category 3 violation results in return to level 5
Three or more Cat 1 and 2 violations in one week result in a return to level 5

Point advancement
400- move to level 2
800- move to level 3
1200- move to level 4
1500- move to level 5
1800- move to level 6
-------------------------------------------------
Cat 1 rule violation consequences-write self correction and lose 10 points
swearing
rude or crude
impolite
poor manners
late or not on time
minor-talking back to parents
minor-arguning
minor-disrespcet to others

Cat 2 rule violation consequences-write self correction and lose 50 points
dress and groming violation
talking back to parents
beign argumentative
disrespect to parents
disrespect to others
minor-lying,dishoesty, manipulation
Failure to complete household chores
failure to complete daily homework
Failure to complete daily objective report
Major-swearing
Major-crude and rude
major-late or not on time

Cat 3 rule violations-write self correction and lose 1 level (if on level 1 lose 200 points)
insubordination or defiant w parents
lying, dishonesty, manipulation
major disrespect to others
trend-three or more of the same violatoin in one week
failure to complete weekly academic report
minor-violation of house rules or level privleges
minor-curfew violation

Cat 4 rule violations- student returns to program or completes 20 work or study hours at home or room restriction (before resuming and normal schedule or activites) write 500 word essay and commitment letter to addres and fix the problem, returns to level 1 0 points
tobacco use
curfew violation
beign w unapproved friends
beign in unapproves area
being somewhere different form where agreed upon
major-lying dishonesty and manipulation
major-insubordiantion or defiance
stealing or theft
violation of house rules or privleges

Cat 5 rule violation- student returns to program or completes 40 work or study hours at home or room restriction, write 2000 word essay that includes commitment and plan to address and fix the problem, returns to level 1 0 points
drug/alcohol use
refusal to complete consequences
run away
major violation of house rules level privleges or curfew

students may never go below 0 points
------------------------------------------------
Whew! I sure feel sorry for the underpaid secretary that had to write all that garbage by hand! So basically its like being in the program at home! :roll:
amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2005, 04:50:00 PM

ginger
I am confused about this stuff. What do I put
ICQ number, AIM, yahoo messanger, MSN, web site adress, signature.
Amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 23, 2005, 09:01:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-23 13:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"ginger

I am confused about this stuff. What do I put

ICQ number, AIM, yahoo messanger, MSN, web site adress, signature.

Amanda"

OIC! Ok, all but your username, password and email address are optional. Truthfullness in the email address is also optional (depending on how much you trust my intention and ability to protect your privacy or just not bug you)  

ICQ, AIM, Yahoo Messenger and MSN are all chat clients. If you have handles for these and you want forum viewers to have them, then fill them in. Same w/ the website. Any favorite website will do.  

Thanks for the question. This is going in the FAQ.

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 23, 2005, 09:46:00 PM

That process you describe sounds a whole lot like some of the role playing we had to do sometimes. If the skit wasn't focused on somebody to begin w/, it was usually a set up. Staff would have a few kids do the skit then we'd have a rap on it. You'd just never know when you got called on if you'd be allowed to deliver your lines and have a seat or if it was an ambush. The last thing in the world you wanted to hear while relating in any rap was staff asking "Who has something to say to [state your name]". That was the cue. Even if nobody in group had any clue what to confront you for, even if you had no idea yourself how you'd done anything wrong related in any way to what you were talking about. You'd start scurrying around your head, searching for anything and trying to slap together a compelling defense or confession or any damned thing. Same thing was going on in the minds of those not currently on the hot seat; what to say, is this a setup (they want me to confront _____ about image so they can turn it around on me, I know it!)

No wonder most of us fell for it to some extent. Who has time to think critically when you're constantly in fight or flight mode?

That's the whole damned secret. If you're cold hearted enough, you can train a dog to do damned near anything in exactly the same way. Keep them hungry and nervous all the time, and they'll do anything to make you be nice and believe they're lucky. You just can't ever trust a dog trained that way. If they get happy, they get cockey and you lose control.

I don't know how the 7th step society compares to WWASP's aftercare, having never 7th stepped. But I'm sure there are plenty of ppl around here who could fill us in on that.

This is really getting good, don't you think? If anybody's out there compiling and anthology, here's some jucy meat.

Come to the woods, for here is rest. There is no repose like that of the green deep woods. Here grow the wallflower and the violet. The squirrel will come and sit upon your knee, the logcock will wake you in the morning. Sleep in forgetfulness of all ill. Of all the upness accessible to mortals, there is no upness comparable to the mountains.
-- John Muir

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2005, 11:35:00 PM

Thanks for the info. ill try it and if I do something wrong Ill ask for more help.

I remember my cousin, the one I told you about that I searched his room and found paraphanalia and told his parents, wrote me in the program and told me he thought I was being brainwahsed. He said one of the cues he had was the high sodium/fatty foods we were eating. He told me eating too much of that can make your brain lazy and more ceceptable to brainwashing. know if thats true?

They did ambush people in processes. YOu might think it was about someone else and then the story plays out to be you and oyu get confronted abd stuff. I think that particular process was the "turning point" for me. Thats when I really fell hard for the program mentality. Thats when I became one of those judgemental, rule nazi bastards I hated so much and do still. I wonder if the fact that I was abused by my step mom as a kid had anything to do with how I didnt feel abused. Maybe that stuff just was normal for me or something. I was used to getting yelled at and called names and called manipulative and such. The funny thing about it is I was too afraid of her to bring up the abuse ever in the program. Everytime I would even sort of bring it up, I was being manipulative or I was wrong. Fear can mkae anyone into an obidient person. She actually told me once that raising kids is like training a dog. You have to make them fear you and let them know you are the "alpha male". (Sadly that is an actual quote.) But I need the program right? :roll:

So yeah what do you think of that after care shit? Did you have anything similar to it at Straight? Can you believe they actually think that that would help a kid get back into the swing of being out side the rigid structure of the program? Amazing they get away wiht it...
Amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 23, 2005, 11:51:00 PM

K im just checking to see if registering worked.[ This Message was edited by: Angola Cheeba on 2005-05-25 09:41 ]

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: ` on May 24, 2005, 08:00:00 AM

hey Amanda my dad used to whistle at us then point right in front of him and say "come here." and if we hung back he said "right here, right in front of me." ... :roll:

that's interesting about the fatty & salty diet, i never heard that. the US Govt is practicing behavior modification on us in preparation for the 4th Reich, which it seems is going to resemble 1984 by George Orwell.

well it's not a sure thing yet. watch what global warming does. i wonder what will happen when the Antarctic ice shelf slides into the ocean.

do i ever need some Bob Marley right about now.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 24, 2005, 12:31:00 PM

I gotta take the diet stuff w/ a grain of salt (uh... no pun intended). It's hard to say if it's intentional or not because those high carb, low protien diets are pretty much normal for so many people. Now, I don't think it's out of line at all to discuss the possibility that the FDA "food pyramid" as it's been drawn in recent years was somehow intentionally rigged just so. But, again, prove it! We can't. Nor can we disprove it. If there was any dark intention behind it, nobody put it in writing in any official filing or anything.

It's just one of those thangs. We tell the troubled parent industry that if they really want to take excellent care of the kids they say they want to help, feed them lots of fruit and veggies and stuff. And they respond w/ a resounding silence. We tell the public school system the same thing; same response. Draw your own implications.

The aftercare "plan" looks like it was written by a lunatic on the order of Pinkie and the Brain! I think those rules are rather strict for a 10yo, let alone a young adult. I can't imagine that anyone has ever actually followed a plan like that. And it's amazing to me (still) that parents who have spent their whole lives living out in the real world can look at this stuff and say "Yeah! That makes sense!"

Anybody care to offer a comparison to life in the 7th Step Society?

Errors, like straws, upon the surface flow;

He who would search for perls must dive below.

Prolougue (from preface to
the Panther Book)
John Dryden, All for Love, Prolougue

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 24, 2005, 02:37:00 PM

Hey yo,
Yeah, look at the american diet. Cheesburgers. french fries (oh excuse me, FREEDOM fries :roll:) and milkshakes. Have you guys ever seen Super size me? OR read Fast Food Nation? The shit they try to pass off as food in this country is scary. Well, unfortunatly if the food dosnt kill us, well all probably be blown to smitherines long before global warming takes its final toll. Sorry I know thats really pessimistic and all, but with Bush in power, I just dont feel safe. I wouldnt be supprised if we all die in a global nuclear holocaust before my daughter turns 10!
[ This Message was edited by: Angola Cheeba on 2005-05-25 09:41 ]

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 24, 2005, 02:44:00 PM

FKA,
Cant parents be so cruel? I was talking to my Mom about the program the other day and I told her that I feel like the reason I was so depressed and angry as a child didnt have anything to do with her parenting. She was a really good Mom. It was my step mom who ruind my self esteem and crushed any hope I had to become who I wanted to be. She beat us with belts on our bare bottoms, she would line all the kids up and crack a bull whip behind us until one of us confessed to breaking a rule, she would make us sit with a bar of soap in our mouth for a really long time for talking back to her. Funny thing about that is my sister does the same shit to her child now. Even though she knows my step moms way is the wrong way. Guess you can be brainwashed by your parents too. She called us all names and used to tell me (and still does) that she wants to divorce my Dad because he is such a horrible this and a that. She belongs in a fucking program so she can experience the fear and intimidation and the hoplessness.


_________________
L'homme est ne'libre et partout il est dans les fers.
Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau[ This Message was edited by: Angola Cheeba on 2005-05-25 09:42 ]

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 24, 2005, 02:59:00 PM

Ginger,
In Fast Food Nation, they talk about the school lunches they offer to kids. The beef they use is the lowest grade and just borderline acceptable beef they offer to the US. They did a study in one school for "special needs" kids. Not mentally challenges kids, but kids who were disobedient and didnt do well in school. They changed their diet to helathy food, no high salt, high carb, high fat. They changed to low salt, normal carb, low fat, normal helathy balanced diet and the kids grades actually improved and they felt more awake, more motivated, and more positive. I know when I eat high salt high fat foods, I feel lethargic and depressed and when I eat well and exercise, I have energy and feel just generally better.

The original food pyramid didnt have meat on it. It was a vegitarian diet. Cant remember where I read that, in one of my vegan cookbooks I think. I'll see if I can find more info on it if your interested.

NO ONE follows their Home Contract. But the program assholes say its because the kids are manipulative and oppositional, not because it is unreasonable. Alot of parents dont really expect their kid to follow that guideline. My friend Ashley (not Perri) had a one page short to the point contract that basically said Im 18 and I can make my own rules. She graduated so I think they only force kids who are under 18 and not close to turning it to follow those strict guidelins. I was the only person who survived 6 months of that BS and I never got to level 6. I quit before that cuz it was impossible to follow those rules as an 18 year old in college.

Whats the 7th step society? A stright thing?

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Dolphin on May 24, 2005, 05:02:00 PM

Amanda's Post:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =10#105444 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9390&forum=44&start=10#105444)

Antigen wrote: "The aftercare "plan" looks like it was written by a lunatic on the order of Pinkie and the Brain! I think those rules are rather strict for a 10yo, let alone a young adult. I can't imagine that anyone has ever actually followed a plan like that. And it's amazing to me (still) that parents who have spent their whole lives living out in the real world can look at this stuff and say "Yeah! That makes sense!"
*********************************************

The Home Contract is written by the teen.  It is not written by the staff, the parents or someone out in never never land.   So, with that knowledge, Amanda wrote what she posted and is making it sound like someone else wrote it?  No one tells the kids what to put in there, I've seen several and they all look different. The contract is for the teen, no one else.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 24, 2005, 05:09:00 PM

P.S. Antigen is calling Amanda a lunatic along the lines of Pinkie and the brain.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 24, 2005, 05:52:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-24 11:59:00, Angola Cheeba wrote:

Whats the 7th step society? A stright thing?

Yeah, that was Straights aftercare program. I know it involved raps (maybe weekly?) and those could result in setbacks and startovers. But I have no clue about the rest because 7th steppers (pseudo graduates) were never permitted to associate w/ current clients in any way. Even if they lived together (as in someone graduating ahead of a brother or sister) they strictly limited contact. And, of course, when I left I never let the door hit me in the ass. Had NO interest in contacting former straightlings at all till like 18 years later.

The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 24, 2005, 05:55:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-24 14:02:00, Dolphin wrote:

No one tells the kids what to put in there

You should read more carefully, Dolphin. Amanda mentioned something about having had to revise her home contract several times to get it approved. In any event, they're all written under duress.

Can you seriously read that home contract and tell me that it represents reasonable and wholesom rules and limits for a young adult? Seriously?

It's our goddamn duty to get these people back on drugs so they can think for themselves again!!!
RTP2003

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 24, 2005, 06:01:00 PM

K well I think I know because I had to write one. We recieved the exact thing I wrote out at a seminar with our parents. Someone had to write it! And it wasnt a teen that wrote what I got from my seminar folder... It is a guideline of what they want you to put in the home contract. Did you go to CCM? If you did then whats the confusion? Yes the teen writes it but the parents, the fam rep, and the therapist ALL have to agree that is is acceptable.


_________________
L'homme est ne'libre et partout il est dans les fers.
Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau[ This Message was edited by: Angola Cheeba on 2005-05-25 09:42 ]

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Cayo Hueso on May 24, 2005, 06:20:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-24 14:52:00, Antigen wrote:

"

Quote

On 2005-05-24 11:59:00, Angola Cheeba wrote:


Whats the 7th step society? A stright thing?

Yeah, that was Straights aftercare program. I know it involved raps (maybe weekly?) and those could result in setbacks and startovers. But I have no clue about the rest because 7th steppers (pseudo graduates) were never permitted to associate w/ current clients in any way. Even if they lived together (as in someone graduating ahead of a brother or sister) they strictly limited contact. And, of course, when I left I never let the door hit me in the ass. Had NO interest in contacting former straightlings at all till like 18 years later.
<

I think the raps were twice weekly if memory serves.  Don't really remember.  I think I went for a month and then was outta there.  I didn't have anything like a home contract or anything.  It was pretty much understood that I did whatever Dad said whenever he said it or I'd be back on front row.   Then someone told me that the court order stuff was all full of shit so I waved bye bye.

The introduction of a Creator has done our independence no good.
--Gore Vidal, author

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Cayo Hueso on May 24, 2005, 06:23:00 PM

Holy shit!!  http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =10#105444 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9390&forum=44&start=10#105444)


You're honestly saying that you think this would be a healthy environment?????

A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 24, 2005, 06:36:00 PM

Amada, if memory serves, Dolphin is a Program parent and referal agent. Is that inaccurate, Dolphin?

When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.
Robert Anton Wilson

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Cayo Hueso on May 24, 2005, 06:37:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-24 15:36:00, Antigen wrote:

"Amada, if memory serves, Dolphin is a Program parent and referal agent.

Oh. That explains a lot.

I don't go lookin' for trouble. I just keep a little in a box should someone come by who is.
--Bill Warbis

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 24, 2005, 06:53:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-24 15:36:00, Antigen wrote:

"Amada, if memory serves, Dolphin is a Program parent and referal agent. Is that inaccurate, Dolphin?"

sure does.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 24, 2005, 08:27:00 PM

Well if that is the case then theres probbly no point in arguing. She will only look at it from her perspecive. And yes, the PROGRAM did write the guidelines I posted. They handed it to us at PC1. And every kid that has been there knows that if there is anything in the home contract that anyone disagrees with, it has to be changed. I was scared of my therapist and used the guidelines from the packet I posted to make mine. It was so overwhelming. It created more problems for me when I went home then helped me.
amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2005, 12:36:00 AM

I was listening to NPR tonight and they were discussing the rise in obesity in Shanghai. The reporter asked the guy in Shanghai if "fat camps", diet pills, and quick fixes were on the rise as well. He retorted that when a rise in obesity happens in a society, there will always be people who try to make money off it. I think this applies to the program as well. When the rise in "drug" use happened, someone seized a window of opportunity and made bank off of parents ignorance and fear. And as it continues to rise, more money will be made. Anyone agree??

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 25, 2005, 11:32:00 AM

Well, I mostly agree. Except that there hasn't really been a significant rise in drug use. Just occasional significant shifts from one drug to another (coke gets expensive and risky, coke dealers switch to meth and the users take what's available) And there was a significant rise in the perception of drug use being a major problem.

But I don't think the troubled parent industry is growing to meet a real deman. One big clue is how the rhetoric has changed. In the early `70's (summer of Manson, etc) the media was all a twitter w/ fearmongering about the inevitable wave of heroin addiction. We knew that GIs in Vietnam were using a lot of it. And we "knew" that heroin is instantly and morbidly addictive. So we "knew" that, as the vets came marching home from Vietnam, they'd bring their addictions w/ them. So the White House tasked NIDA (then headed by Bobby DuPont) to come up w/ a solution to this impending crisis.

But it never happened. As it turns out, most ppl who were using heroin in Vietnam under unbearably stressful circumstances simply quit when they got back home.

So here we were with all these rehabs underway, and mostly built on the Synanon method, and no damned heroin addicts! Legend has it that that's where the gateway theory came from. At the same time, there were lots and lots of pot smokers representing a boom market to any salesman who could sell the gateway theory.

If there's a worse idea going than locking people up for drug use, it's probably locking them up in close proximity to some tyranical altruist who wants to 'help' them with a problem that probably doesn't exist
-- Ginger Warbis
having had about all the help I can stand!

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2005, 12:17:00 PM

I've seen several kids get involved with drugs. Most of them have parents who abuse subsances - either RX, alcohol or illegal substances.  They also come from disfunctional homes. So if a kid is using drugs the parents need to take a good, hard look in the mirror.  They need to fix themselves and the family unit.  Most people don't have that kind of self insight though. How many have gone through family counseling before shipping thier children off to a WWASO facility?

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 25, 2005, 12:57:00 PM

If you've only seen several kids who use drugs then either you don't see kids very often or you just assume that the "good" ones are abstinate.

Even when asked by a teacher to fill out a survey in the classroom, consistently around half of all highschool seniors have admitted to illegal drug use. That has been so since we started doing these surveys in the `70's. So, while it's factually true that kids ta' day who use drugs usually have parents who do the same, it's about as significant as noting that kids who use drugs have parents who prefer french fries over baked potato.

Drugs, legal or not, are part of our culture. Out of control, harmful drug use is also a part of our culture. Most kids are left to their own devices wrt figuring out where to draw the line. All the adults are just spouting nonsense at them right from the DFAF. It's worse than worthless because, what little useful information we have to give them comes to them tarnished by bullshit like the gateway theory.

We need to stop doing that and just tell the kids the truth.

When we are pleading with foreign governments to stop the flow of cocaine, it is the height of hypocrisy for the US to export tobacco.  Years from now, our nation will look back on this application of free trade policy and find it scandalous.

1989 testimony before the US Trade Representative,September 1989
--Surgeon General, Everett Koop

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 25, 2005, 12:58:00 PM

Interesting...
Thanks Ginger. Good post. I also agree wiht what anon wrote. If parents would simply teach their kids well from the beginning and teach by example also, their kids might not be depressed and might not dabble in dangerous drugs.  

Truth be told, when I was in high school, mostly my friends and I smoked pot. When I went to CCM, my friends started doing and selling crystal. My husband did it a couple of times, but he has no desire to ever do it again. Just because you smoke weed dosnt mean you will turn into a crazy drug addict! Ive smoked weed on and off since I was 13. Never even tried meth, heroin, coke, ect. I have no desire to either. I feel natural drugs that come from the earth are here for us to use. They are not manufactured processed crap. And my sister who smoked weed on and off has never done anything but shrooms and pot.  I have friends who did try other drugs, got involved with coke, meth, ect. But now that they are older and a little wiser, they dont do that anymore.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2005, 01:12:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-25 09:57:00, Antigen wrote:


Drugs, legal or not, are part of our culture. Out of control, harmful drug use is also a part of our culture. Most kids are left to their own devices wrt figuring out where to draw the line. All the adults are just spouting nonsense at them right from the DFAF. It's worse than worthless because, what little useful information we have to give them comes to them tarnished by bullshit like the gateway theory.



We need to stop doing that and just tell the kids the truth

Ah, truer words have never been spoken!!  Both of my kids and a good portion of their friends have said that the things I told them about drugs made much more of an impression than any "authority" because I didn't lie to them.  If I had spouted off the typicall DFAF/AA/insert org here was trying to tell them I would have lost ALL credibility.   They figured if I was straight up with them about things they would find out on their own anyway (pot NOT being harmful, NOT gateway) then I was straight up about the dangers I told them about.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Cayo Hueso on May 25, 2005, 01:13:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-25 10:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Quote

On 2005-05-25 09:57:00, Antigen wrote:



Drugs, legal or not, are part of our culture. Out of control, harmful drug use is also a part of our culture. Most kids are left to their own devices wrt figuring out where to draw the line. All the adults are just spouting nonsense at them right from the DFAF. It's worse than worthless because, what little useful information we have to give them comes to them tarnished by bullshit like the gateway theory.





We need to stop doing that and just tell the kids the truth

Ah, truer words have never been spoken!!  Both of my kids and a good portion of their friends have said that the things I told them about drugs made much more of an impression than any "authority" because I didn't lie to them.  If I had spouted off the typicall DFAF/AA/insert org here was trying to tell them I would have lost ALL credibility.   They figured if I was straight up with them about things they would find out on their own anyway (pot NOT being harmful, NOT gateway) then I was straight up about the dangers I told them about.  "

oops. me

If you ask the Government for the right to assemble you deserve to be told no .
 

--Jim Lesczynski, Manhattan LP chair, on "unorganized" gathering @ Central Park

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 25, 2005, 01:45:00 PM

Dolphin? Where'd you go, Dolphin???

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2005, 05:13:00 PM

Right here Antigen.  I'm a parent, yes.  What is a referal agent?  SOmeone that talks about Cross Creek to parents who are already looking for help?  I do that on occasion.

As far as the contract.  What Amanda posted looks just like her own contract that she wrote because there really are no guidelines.  I do agree  that the parents have to agree to it, but ultimately, the kid is the one that has to live by it, so they need to make sure it works for them, not the parents.  

Maybe that's where Amanda thought she had to do the contract for the parents and didn't take into consideration if she would actually be able to live by it.  It's really only about personal boundaries that are unhealthy (to the kid)

Amanda, did you write the contract for your parents?  Big mistake, but it looks like you learned fast it wouldn't work.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2005, 05:24:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-25 14:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What Amanda posted looks just like her own contract that she wrote because there really are no guidelines"

How the fuck do you know?  You weren't even there.  You are, in effect, calling Amanda a liar when you have absolutely no basis for that assertion.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2005, 08:11:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-25 14:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You are, in effect, calling Amanda a liar when you have absolutely no basis for that assertion."

This is one thing ALL program supporters have in common. They are delusional.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 25, 2005, 09:05:00 PM

K lady! :roll: Geez. Well, the contract I posted AS I SAID BEFORE was GIVEN to me by the PROGRAM in the seminar PC1. Those WERE the guidelines they gave us. And I know better then anyome cuz I went through PC1 twice. Got he sma estupid contract guideline BS twice. So its not mine. AND THE PARENTS AND THERAPIST AND FAM REP ALL HAVE TO AGREE ON THE CONTRACT. How many times do I have to say that?

Oh, if you didnt write na extensive contract, parents flipped out. And no, I wrote the contract actually believeing that after CCM that contract would be EASY to follow! Little did I know...

And my theraspist and my parents wanted it all in there and if I disagreed, we would argue till I agreed to do it. What was I gonna do? Say no? Yeah that dosnt work too well with the program. They used to tell me when I would bring up how my step mom is unreasonable about rules and guidelins, that I was wrong and I had to do what she said because she was my parent. And like I said before NO ONE I KNOW EVER USED THEIR HOME CONTRACT. Not one person. I followed it the longest, and i still didnt get to level 6. So yeah, why dont you just wake up to the fact that their way just may not, uh, work. Just because the program came up with it dosnt mean it is effective.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 25, 2005, 09:07:00 PM

Hey ginger,
This is off topic again, but it isnt letting me edit my own posts, even though Im logged in with the right name and password. Any advice?
Amanda

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2005, 11:38:00 PM

Ginger,
Im in one of those perplexing moods. I was just talking to my mom the other day and I was telling her about the programs and she posed the question "so what do you do instead?"

I dont know. I know my parents tried alot to help me. My mom went to therapy with me, I went alone. I never was allowed to address any of the stuff with my step mom though, like I wanted to. Maybe thats why that wasnt effective?...

I also told my mom maybe I could have gone to a private school or something and she said she tried, but because I dropped out of school and my gpa was so low, no one would take me. So what should parents do when they tried alot of stuff and nothing works?

I know you are a mom and know what it is like to love a kid. I have a 15 month old little girl. (I know, the fun stuff is still ahead!) I just know that it would kill me if I found out she was having sex at 13 or shooting heroin or smoking meth. I will of course teach her to respect herself and to make smart choices. And I will NOT spank or yell at my child. I will teach her to be a free thinker. And to get involved in her community. And learn responsibility. But you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. My little girl is so like me. She is so independant and smart! (most program people confuse intelligence with manipulation and would say she is manipulative.) And in a way I am happy about it and kinda scared. I just want her to be safe and happy and creative and just be her. I know being a good parent is a good defense. I know teaching your kid to be curious and not stifle their creativness is good. But what do you do if say you were in my moms position? My mom was a great parent. My step mom always said she spoiled me, but thats because she thinks spoiling a kid is letting them be creative and think for themselves. My step dad was firm but caring and taught us alot of really good stuff. But my fathers wife is a deamon from hell and basically is the reason I was so depressed my whole teenage hood and was so moody as a kid. I dreaded summer vacation cuz I had to visit my step mom. But my parents told me what they did at their house was ok and what mom did at her house was ok too. So my mom never found out that my step mom and dad hit us repeatedly on our bare bottoms with belts (the end with the belt buckle :grin:)
She never knew and since I was terrified of my step mom I never told her thats why I was so insecure and fearful of people and life. So she tried alot of stuff to help me, and the program seemed like a good idea and I actually seemed to get better after going there. I dont know. Sorry for the rambling. Just wondering if you have an idea of what to tell her. I know she would never refer anyone to the program but I know her friends have kids who are having a hard time and I was wondering what advice you would give them?

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 26, 2005, 04:33:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-25 14:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

Right here Antigen. I'm a parent, yes. What is a referal agent? SOmeone that talks about Cross Creek to parents who are already looking for help? I do that on occasion.

And do you take referral fees?

None of Nature's landscapes are ugly so long as they are wild.
-- John Muir

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 26, 2005, 04:35:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-25 18:07:00, Angola Cheeba wrote:

"Hey ginger,

This is off topic again, but it isnt letting me edit my own posts, even though Im logged in with the right name and password. Any advice?

Amanda"

What happens when you try?

When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence.
-- Gary Lloyd

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 26, 2005, 04:56:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-25 20:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

Just wondering if you have an idea of what to tell her. I know she would never refer anyone to the program but I know her friends have kids who are having a hard time and I was wondering what advice you would give them?

You're not rambling. What I would tell your mother is that I'm sorry ya'll had to go through such hell. Don't waste it. Learn from your mistakes. Obviously, the problem wasn't some flaw in you. Sounds like you were acting like a normal kid who's being abused and scared to tell anybody.

If her friends are entering a white knuckle chapter of parenthood, I'd tell them to NOT PANIC! At the end of the day, there's absulutely nothing that these programs can do for a kid or a family that you can't do yourself. And they can and do do a lot of harm of varieties that are less likely to happen when the kid is living in their own community and family w/ wittnesses and other options than whatever is not working so well right now.

Kids sometimes have difficulty dealing w/ what life throws at them. The troubled parent industry promises to solve all of those difficulties. But all they really do is hide the kid hundreds or thousands of miles away, tell the parents whatever they want to hear and coerce the kids into supporting their story.

Take our friend Dolphin for example. She's been posting here as a Program parent for a long time. You'd think she'd know something by now about how the program really works. But she doesn't. She paid good money for her fantasy and she'll be damned if she'll let it go.

My mom was the same way. Several years after the Program, one of the first times she saw me face to face was at my wedding. She asked my why I had bleached my hair and flat out refused to believe that I hadn't. So I tried to explain to her that my hair had been darker when I was in the Program because we were never allowed out in the sun. But she simply refused to believe it. She reminded me that, after 2nd phase, we went to school (took me a good 10 months to make 2nd phase the first time.) and that on 4th phase, we had days off (but you had to have permission days in advance to go out of the yard, then only on those days off, after school and before time to go get the newcomers... most of us used our first few weeks of days off to catch up on sleep.)

She absolutely didn't remember how it really was. Instead, she remembered the more pleasant version of events they discussed in Parent group and among each other at fund raisers and other times they were permitted to speak.

These days, when my kids seem distant or troubled, I ask them what's up. If they don't feel like talking, I start making Machiavelian plans to create opportunity. Sometimes they come to me for advice. Sometimes they don't. So far, so good. They're all healthy and relatively happy and pursuing their own interests, getting better at accomplishing their goals, etc.

You just have to have a little faith in your kids to overcome difficulty. Don't steal their thunder! A big part of growing up well is all about sorting things out for yourself. If someone steps in and strong arms you into making what they think are the right decisions, even if some of those decisions are really better, you're still left w/ the daunting task of proving to yourself that you're capable of taking care of yourself. And, after a program, you have so much extra dependency to overcome and you're years behind your peers.

No matter how you slice it, it's just not worth it.

Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself - that is my doctrine.

--Thomas Paine

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Dolphin on May 26, 2005, 05:03:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-26 13:33:00, Antigen wrote:

"

Quote

On 2005-05-25 14:13:00, Anonymous wrote:


Right here Antigen. I'm a parent, yes. What is a referal agent? SOmeone that talks about Cross Creek to parents who are already looking for help? I do that on occasion.

And do you take referral fees?

None of Nature's landscapes are ugly so long as they are wild.
-- John Muir

"

Only if a parent admits their child and I took the time to have information sent to them.  I don't look for troubled parents, so I rarely talk with any - once there was an admission and I refused the fee and turned it over to that parent to help with the admission cost.  I'm glad I was able to help both emotionally and with the little bit of money I could.  Even if I accepted the fee there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 26, 2005, 05:06:00 PM

No, nothing at all wrong w/ taking blood money.  :roll:

Regardless, this clearly shows your bias in this debate. You can't afford to see what you're doing, what you're advocating, because you'd have to kill yourself if you were to come to terms with it.

History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2005, 05:25:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-26 14:03:00, Dolphin wrote:

"Only if a parent admits their child and I took the time to have information sent to them.  I don't look for troubled parents, so I rarely talk with any - once there was an admission and I refused the fee and turned it over to that parent to help with the admission cost.  I'm glad I was able to help both emotionally and with the little bit of money I could.  Even if I accepted the fee there's absolutely nothing wrong with that."

translation: 'YES I take $$ for sending kids to private prisons.'

 ::noway::

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2005, 06:35:00 PM

I try to edit the post and it goes to this message that says I am using the wrong password or some thing.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 26, 2005, 06:54:00 PM

Ginger,
That anon post was mine about the password. I hope Ican sort it out.

Thanks for the post. I agree. The more my parents tried to make me follow their beleifs,the more I pushed away. I guess Im just oppositional defiant in that way! :smile:

I think its hard for those parents when the kids are really getting into serious trouble. Like her buddy has a son who was murdered for not paying a meth dealer. Then her daughter started dabbling and dropping out and stuff. BUT she married this guy who is a dtsfunctional drinker and is insane. So I guess I should feel more sorry for the girl than the parent.

God the program is so bunk! I remember I told my MOm this friend of hers told me it was ok to smoke pot and do things so long as I could learn moderation and told me I coulod live with her before I went to the program. So when I was "confessing", which you have to write a letter of confession when you get there, I told her. She freaked out on her friend and to this day it is uncomfortable every time we see her. And I remember one of the rules was you could not talk bad about the president or the USA. Fucking whatever! The rules were insane. And the cleaning rules were insane to. You got written up if you had one spot on the chrome. I am a cleaning lady now so I have to clean well. But I still never clean THAT well! God they are crazy fucking mormons!

Even my mom who spent clost to 60,000.00 on the program, admits she was wrong. Im glad she isnt ignorant and dilusional like crazy program lady. God dont you see what is going on here? I feel sorry for you and for any of the people who you refer to the program. Their kids arent going to get better and you are helping them waste their money and destroy thier kid. Bravo. Way to be a good friend!

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 26, 2005, 07:58:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-26 15:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I try to edit the post and it goes to this message that says I am using the wrong password or some thing."

Oh, I had that problem once while we were editing code. I'll see if we can remember what the problem was. Thanks for the bug report.

...the people have a right to keep and bear arms.
-- Patrick Henry and George Mason Debates

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 26, 2005, 08:15:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-26 15:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I try to edit the post and it goes to this message that says I am using the wrong password or some thing."

Ok, do you allow fornits to set cookies? If not, sometimes you'll have to click the 'log out' link before you try to edit your post so that it'll ask for a username and password again.

Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Angola Cheeba on May 26, 2005, 09:25:00 PM

I just got a new password and it all worked out. I was able to edit my posts. Thanks for the info!

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 26, 2005, 09:31:00 PM

Your other post is a whole lot harder to answer.

I'm sorry to hear about the kid killed by dealers. It happened once in my old neighborhood in Florida. It was horrible. I didn't know the family; never even learned the kids' name. But my daughter and all of her friends and schoolmates knew who he was. And the dealer killed him just before school got out by hanging him right on his front porch.

I don't know how in the world we can keep young, adventurous kids out of the black market on an individual basis. In fact, I can't think of a better way to encourage them to it than what we're doing right now. Methamphetamine is not much different from Adderal or Ritalin, except that it's more tightly regulated and so more attractive to criminal enterprise.

No doubt, there's serious danger in pharmaceuticals. Kids crush and mix pills and overdose all the time. And anyone can drink themselves to death w/ $40 worth of rotgut liquore or get snarfed and staggar out in front of a truck or go skinny dipping and pass out.

But pharmacists and bartenders don't kill deadbeats. They don't have to. They have lawyers and Leo to enforce their contracts and sales in a (very slightly, in some cases) more civilized way. In exchange for those services, we get the right to license them. We allow them to do business w/ consenting adults and we yank their licenses or fine or sue them if they don't operate within those limits.

I think the best way to keep kids safe from dope dealers is just exactly the way we put an end to their abuse by bootleggers. My dad's father was chief of police while his uncle was the towns biggest bootlegger. He told me lots of stories from those days. If anything, it was worse than some of what we're hearing about these days. It only took 13 years in a 15 mph world to put an end to that lunacy. I don't know what it's going to take to turn it around wrt other dangerous, habit forming drugs after three generations of it.

There are other pressures at work that make gangstering seem so appealing to young people. We don't allow kids ta' day any responsibility or respect anywhere else. No working, no having your own money, no loitering or skateboarding... no unaccounted for time and certainly no adventure. And it's getting worse. Since the homeland security bill ent through, teenagers are no longer allowed to open savings accounts or checking accounts, even w/ a parents underwriting.

We could keep a lot of kids out of the drug trade, I think, if we were to do away w/ most of the child labour laws. Most of them have nothing at all to do w/ protecting the kids from exploitation. The one's I've bumped into all have to do w/ enforcing compulsory schooling.

But all these newly critical problems w/ kids ta' day seem to have to do w/ the way we're treating them, not w/ defective kids coming on the scene. Sending off the round kids to pound them into shape to fit our square holes is not the answer.

I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.
--GW Büsh, CNN.com, December 18, 2000

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2005, 02:20:00 PM

I Agree! :nworthy:

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2005, 05:46:00 PM

Angola Cheeba - both slang for marijuana, so your name is marijuana marijuana..just a little humor.


You say the program is bunk?  Really?  I'm saying that because unless you use what you learned, it could be considered bunk.  

Do you know when you blame someone or something else for isn't workign in your life, you take the responsibility off of yourself? Depending on who's reading this, you could look like a poor me victim.  On the other hand, someone reading here that is also a poor me victim could be reading it as "wow" she finally wised up.  The latter is what seems to be fueling your fire right now, cuz there are way too many that agree with you.    

If the program didn't work fory ou, it's because you didn't want it to, no matter how long you've been out.

You aren't allowed to staff a seminar if you can't pass a drug test,(is that it?)  but that would be a great way to get some of the eprsonal accountability back that you seem to have let go of.

You are a cleaning lady and use a screen name of marijuana marijuana and you want to blame Cross Creek for that?  or what?

You are really fueling my humor today.

PHX

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 28, 2005, 07:59:00 PM

This thread is a fucking hoot...

Dolphin is the most delusional twat I've ever seen! She puts me down for having consentual (but not vanilla) sex with my girlfriend that she propositions me for, for her own enjoyment, and then sings the praises of the program.... and now we have this anonymous fuck who blames it on the victim if the program doesnt work!

If its all up to them, why go to a program at all? I thought the program was supposed to help kids whether they liked it or not - hence why they're drug there by escorts with handcuffs and locked in, and put in those ridiculous seminars that by design break them down!

But oh well, Dolphin can keep putting down kink while referring people to her little program and being high off of her delusion and the total control shes gotten over her kid via it, and this annonymous fuck can keep insulting someone personally and making everything her fault even when the real blame lies at the feet of Gilcrease's psycho-bullshit, and those mormon businessmen who made this little racket to get rich off of dumbfucks... like Dolphin and this anon troll!

Truth does not have to be accepted on faith. Scientists do not hold hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! Amen.
--Dan Barker, former evangelist and author

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on May 28, 2005, 08:13:00 PM

PHX, you're such a hypocrite! Your messed up program doesn't work, so you blame the kids for that? Don't you get the results you intend through your actions? And weren't you among the small cheering squad lavishing good will and praise on Amanda and Perri when they were singing something a little closer to your tune?

You pick a username that's merely an abreviation for a mythical undead thing risen from the ashes of a once living creature. A ghoulish pegan sun god right out of Eastern religion and mythology. A symbol of the ever watchful authority of the Pharos of old.

How incredibly apropos.

BTW, know what my username means? Does it fit?  :rofl:

All penalties for drug users should be dropped...Making drug abuse a crime is useless and even dangerous...Every year we seize more and more drugs but the quantity available still increases...Police are losing the drug battle worldwide.


--Raymond Kendall ~ Secretary General of Interpol 1994

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 29, 2005, 06:37:00 PM

Yes, Antigen, Amanda got the results she intended.  You are correct.

You're funny.  My "username" is where I live, Scottsdale, with the airport code of -PHX-


I remember I either read or posted something about completing something so powerful (graduating the program) to Brown and Perrigaud.  I don't remember that for Amanda, however I would include her in that even now. She completed something very powerful in her life.  

Just from what I've read, and I don't know for sure because I don't know her, it sounds like the drugs are doing the talking, not Amanda.  Just my take on it.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 30, 2005, 01:23:00 AM

Oh blah lady. I have the fucking right to say what I want about that place. What do you care anyway? Your little organization will remain open. The WWASP people are too rich to reform it and not alot of people care enough. IT is bunk. It is lame. And I am doing just fine without it.Im not ashamed of my choices or my actions. And Im certainly not worried about what you think about me! Im happy being me and no I dont think the program helped me get to this point. AS for the nickname comment, maybe I like the way those two names sounded? I purposfuly picked it out like that. I know perfectly well what they mean. But thanks for the update! Oh spare me your accountability b.s.! Because I dont feel the program helped me WHICH IT DIDNT I somehow live some horrid immoral life? I am a happily married mommy and I live a very good life. I have my own home. I am only 21 and I own my own car and home. Pretty cool I think. And I love my kid and my hubby. I am prefectly content. And the program had not a thing to do with it.  

Blah to you. I have nothing more to say to you. You are just trying to pick a fight and I wont let myself sink to your level. I have better things to do with my time.
Ang. Chee.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 30, 2005, 01:34:00 AM

YOu make it sound as if the people who dont like your precious programs are all satan worsshiping, drug abusing, non accountable, unhappy dolts. I know for a fact I am perfectly happy and have a little more self esteem now! Sorry you have to be locked up in your little WWASP hell. I am free!!

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 30, 2005, 02:09:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-05-28 14:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Angola Cheeba - both slang for marijuana, so your name is marijuana marijuana..just a little humor.





You say the program is bunk?  Really?  I'm saying that because unless you use what you learned, it could be considered bunk.  



Do you know when you blame someone or something else for isn't workign in your life, you take the responsibility off of yourself? Depending on who's reading this, you could look like a poor me victim.  On the other hand, someone reading here that is also a poor me victim could be reading it as "wow" she finally wised up.  The latter is what seems to be fueling your fire right now, cuz there are way too many that agree with you.    



If the program didn't work fory ou, it's because you didn't want it to, no matter how long you've been out.



You aren't allowed to staff a seminar if you can't pass a drug test,(is that it?)  but that would be a great way to get some of the eprsonal accountability back that you seem to have let go of.



You are a cleaning lady and use a screen name of marijuana marijuana and you want to blame Cross Creek for that?  or what?



You are really fueling my humor today.



PHX  "

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:





hahahaha.....



hahahaha...




haha...

hahaha....








hehehehehe..

PHX, youre a fucking idiot!  :rofl:

Thanks for the laughs though. Why don't you go to your parent support meeting and congratulate each other on what good parents you are for sending your kids away. Fucking pathetic. You are what is wrong with the world! You look to us just like manson followers, and you don't even realize it. Stone faced child abusers. I spit on you.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 30, 2005, 02:36:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-05-29 22:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"YOu make it sound as if the people who dont like your precious programs are all satan worsshiping, drug abusing, non accountable, unhappy dolts. I know for a fact I am perfectly happy and have a little more self esteem now! Sorry you have to be locked up in your little WWASP hell. I am free!!"

PHX actually does believe that anyone who doesn't conform with the program and its goals (=to break children down and coerce them into thinking the program helped them) must be dead, insane, or in jail. Or, in the very least, have a very screwed up life. Hey, if they said it in the seminars, then it must be true, right PHX? God, you WWASPies are pathetic. Grow a brain. Or, rather, liberate the one you were born with.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on May 30, 2005, 07:10:00 PM

I was just having agood laugh at PHX s post again! She is soo freaking funny! I know I said I didnt want to respond to you anymore but honey you are a freaking weirdo. I didnt "blame" the program for anyhitng. All I said is it isnt effective in changing people into creepy little robots is all. It dosnt help keep kids off "drugs" and it certainly didnt change me into a mormon. Did you go to cross creek? Poor me victim! HA! You are too much! What exactly am I acting like a "victim" about? Why dont you stop parroting program lingo and come up with some original thoghts and comments. Too many agree because IT IS FUCKING LAME AND INNEFECTIVE. YOu think I like admitting I was wrong? Do you think I like remembering shit like this? You think we all make up this shit for fun?
You are a sad little person. I feel sorry for you. Hope you dont go ruining others lives with your repedative dribble. PLEASE promise me you wil not give out advice to anyone. Then again anyone wiling to listen to your advice should have to suffer your dilusional advice and commentary.
Angola Cheeba or marijuana marijuana

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: The Liger on May 31, 2005, 10:17:00 PM

I like the point in this post about the circular reasoning of program-dummies: It is okay to force a kid to go there against their will because the program is so effective that it will save their lives whether they like is or not; if it doesn't, however, it's the kid's fault for not accepting the program!  Genius!

Quote

On 2005-05-28 16:59:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"This thread is a fucking hoot...



Dolphin is the most delusional twat I've ever seen! She puts me down for having consentual (but not vanilla) sex with my girlfriend that she propositions me for, for her own enjoyment, and then sings the praises of the program.... and now we have this anonymous fuck who blames it on the victim if the program doesnt work!



If its all up to them, why go to a program at all? I thought the program was supposed to help kids whether they liked it or not - hence why they're drug there by escorts with handcuffs and locked in, and put in those ridiculous seminars that by design break them down!



But oh well, Dolphin can keep putting down kink while referring people to her little program and being high off of her delusion and the total control shes gotten over her kid via it, and this annonymous fuck can keep insulting someone personally and making everything her fault even when the real blame lies at the feet of Gilcrease's psycho-bullshit, and those mormon businessmen who made this little racket to get rich off of dumbfucks... like Dolphin and this anon troll!

Truth does not have to be accepted on faith. Scientists do not hold hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! Amen.
--Dan Barker, former evangelist and author

"

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on June 01, 2005, 04:28:00 PM

One more thing. yes I got the results I wanted. I found my own truth and realized I am more in control of my life then the program led me to believe. I am happy now. I am ok wiht my choices. Just because the program didnt turn me into a robot dosnt mean I am not a good happy person. sorry you are so diluded as to think that Im not. Besides you dont know me. So how can oyu be so quick to judge. That is what the program does to you, turns you into a judgemental little nazi. I am not however into that frame of mind anymore and frankly I am VERY ok wiht that. SO yah. Have a nice life. Hopefully soem day you will LIGHTEN UP!
ANGOLA CHEEBA

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on June 01, 2005, 06:01:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-29 15:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

Yes, Antigen, Amanda got the results she intended. You are correct.

No, that's not what I asked. I asked if you are getting the results that you intend. And, by extension (as you identify so very solidly w/ it) the rest of the troubled parent industry. When people sue you or the papers report negetively, you always blame someone other than those under discussion. Never WWASP's fault when riots break out over and over again at their facilities, it's the newspapers' fault for reporting it! Not your fault so many graduates kill themslves, it's their fault for not doing the program right.

You're such total hypocrites! Everybody gets the results they intend, except for when bad things happen to you. Then it's some evil other out to do you harm.  :roll:

Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?

A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends.  Bush.
Bill Gallagher

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on June 01, 2005, 11:51:00 PM

Its ok Antigen! I think our troll like friend is gone!   :grin:  good riddance meanie!

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2005, 09:04:00 PM

I was just thinking about the program and thought of something really lame. i remember that the girls facility was right next to the boys and sometimes while the girls were going to the lunch room and stuff we woudl pass the boys outside playing bball in the courtyard. I remember it was a rule that if you made eye contact or even looked in the genereal direction of the boys you got in trouble, but the boysc coudl look at you as long as they wanted. Such bogus bullshit! They guys also watched rated r movies, girls had to watch pg or g. That place is so full of shit. We were forced to look at the fuckign groud when a boy was around! FUCKING SEXIST BASTARDS!
Angola Cheeba

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2005, 05:09:00 AM

I've always wondered what happened to a pair of girls I knew who got sent there.  If memory serves, their names were Aloe and Sara - made a bolt from their program and got sent one circle deeper into hell, also known as CCM.  CCM was used as a threat at my program - "be good, or else you'll get sent someplace like Cross Creek."

Reading this thread, I see why.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2005, 11:31:00 PM

I agree with everything that has been said about Cross Creek.  I was there for 13 months and I feel lucky.  There were girls there who had been there for around 3 years.  I was anxious everyday, I lost hair, and dreaded everyday.  I still today think about Cross Creek everyday.  I have nightmares about this place probably 4 times a month and I wake up almost in tears, fearful the whole day after that in some way I might be going back.  It's been hard for me to make friends when I got back.  My parents don't understand the effects this place has had on me.  Eventhough I am out of there, I still feel like my every move is being scrutinized and I'm fearful.  Everyday there I had to teach myself to detach my mind.  The one thing that sticks out in my mind is the smiles on the therapists faces when they would twist around your thoughts to make you wrong.  I could not have one original thought or I would not leave.  I could not say one thing that disagreed with them or I would be stuck there.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2005, 11:57:00 PM

To Program Parents:

How does it feel to know you sent your kid to a program that couldn't make a dime if not for  stupid parents like you?

Hello???? It's not the teens who are troubled, it's their parents.

 :wstupid:

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on July 01, 2005, 02:44:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-06-28 02:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

 CCM was used as a threat at my program - "be good, or else you'll get sent someplace like Cross Creek."

Which program was that? WWASPS holds CCM out as their flagship; the kinder, gentler WWASPS. So what's the real story, friend? Do tell!

May your days be joyfully challenging and your words artfully true
-- Ginger Warbis SMA, `00

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2005, 12:28:00 AM

I still have dreams too. Its weird. I dream that I go to visit and they make me stay. I stand there arguing with the staff saying "I graduated! Im 22 years old! I am married and have a kid! You cant keep me here!". But the same result every time. I stay for a long time and ask every day "When can I leave?" Its horrible.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2005, 01:17:00 AM

I attended cross creek manor for about 1 year in 2000. I have posted a letter also at struggling teens.com the website if you would like to read it. How dare a place like Cross Creek Manor even exist. Parents are so desperate they don't realize what a major mistake it is for their kids to be there. I've never felt more abused or depressed or lonely or miserable as I did there. It is an experience I wish I could block out of my mind. Not one girl I know of (unsurprisingly) did not relapse once they got out of there. If the LIARS that run and work for Cross Creek did not brainwash or manipulate the parents so well, lets just say they wouldn't make nearly as much money. My heart feels so much sadness and sympathy for the girls that are there now. My mom knows now what a mistake cross creek was. I wish every parent in there would read this and the millions of other horror stories and complaints against Cross Creek Manor and its affiliated programs. Thanks!

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: melissa goldsmith on July 16, 2005, 07:05:00 AM

Hi
I just found this site and was very happy to see all of you talking about the reality of CCM. I was in Garth's group B group for 18 month from 1994-1996. I remember after I left the fear of returning kept me in a striate line. I however realized that I was living in a homemade cross creek, and made plans to move in with a friend and her mother(who opposed of CCM) when my best friend from home was sent there. And then my worst fear came true I was sent back. I was lucky that I had a few moments with my mom before I went and we agreed that if nothing had changed about the way I felt about the program I could leave in one month. But I have to say that month was the hardest month I ever lived. Garth was disappointed to say the least and let me know. I worried that he would get to my mom and convince her to keep me in there, witch he tried. My mom stayed true to her word and took me out after one month THANK GOD. Anyways I am excited to share stories with you all and I hope to run in to some of the wonderful friends I made as we went through hell together.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 16, 2005, 06:04:00 PM

Quote

was lucky that I had a few moments with my mom before I went and we agreed that if nothing had changed about the way I felt about the program I could leave in one month.

Er, huh? She was asking for your approval of it? What did she think the program was?

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
--James Madison, U.S. President

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2005, 12:29:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-07-16 04:05:00, melissa goldsmith wrote:

"My mom stayed true to her word and took me out after one month THANK GOD. Anyways I am excited to share stories with you all and I hope to run in to some of the wonderful friends I made as we went through hell together."

I'm very happy that your mother kept her word. I had a similar agreement with my father, and he broke it. Even started court proceedings to keep me in. :roll: Which was definitely the breaking point of our trust, indefinitely.

I'd love to hear some stories, just anecdotal memories even of your experience. It's such a unique/weird/horrible experience it's nice to talk to other people who were in wwasp programs. I still havent been able to hook up with the friends I made while I was there. When I finally left it was in such a hurry and all.. and plus you can't have #'s and addies as you know.. anyways- I sincerely hope things are well. Post more, and ignore the program supporters- plenty of them here. They have no idea what it was like.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2005, 12:48:00 PM

Hey Melissa, Its good to have you here.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: melissa goldsmith on July 17, 2005, 08:44:00 PM

what a nice responce from all for you. thank you.
i never knew that there were places to talk about our experences or i would have been here a long time ago. i am currently writing down my experence at cross creek and i have to say it has been 9 years but the tears still flow as if it happened yesterday. when i am done with my account i will share it with all of you, i hope to hear some of your stories.

also i was wondering if anyone knew is GARTH a counsler at CCM still???

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: melissa goldsmith on July 17, 2005, 08:46:00 PM

what a nice responce from all for you. thank you.
i never knew that there were places to talk about our experences or i would have been here a long time ago. i am currently writing down my experence at cross creek and i have to say it has been 9 years but the tears still flow as if it happened yesterday. when i am done with my account i will share it with all of you, i hope to hear some of your stories.

also i was wondering if anyone knew is GARTH a counsler at CCM still???

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on July 18, 2005, 12:50:00 PM

Yes, garth is still working at cross creek

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on July 18, 2005, 04:44:00 PM

wow he is still there. damn he had been there for like 5 years before i got there i was there for 18 months and i have been gone for 9 years, that is just crazy, if anyone was in his group i would love to talk to you.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: melissa goldsmith on July 18, 2005, 04:44:00 PM

wow he is still there. damn he had been there for like 5 years before i got there i was there for 18 months and i have been gone for 9 years, that is just crazy, if anyone was in his group i would love to talk to you.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on July 18, 2005, 11:13:00 PM

Hey Melissa, I had Darrel and the Ron June but only garth for one day and boy do I freaking really dislike that guy! I actually visited about 6 months ago as I was still braiwashed into thinking this place was great and he was the biggest ass to me ever. I am soory ot hear that the memories are still painfull to you. OUr lives will truly never be the same. I sitll have issues because of that place. When you were there, did you go to the "St. George facility"? Im not sure if they had that then or not. Well alot has changed im sure, but bassically its the same too. Seminars, Group, structure, bullshit.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on July 19, 2005, 04:42:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-07-17 17:44:00, melissa goldsmith wrote:

"i am currently writing down my experence at cross creek"

When you have finished send it to ISAC.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: melissa goldsmith on July 20, 2005, 04:27:00 PM

i was there from 1994-1996 i was in garths group. i was there two times i was there the first time before they had uniforms and i went back right after they got the uniforms. garth was a dick when i first got there untill i followed his rules then he was great. then i returned to CCM and lets just say i would take the dick i first met over the Garth i got upon returning.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on July 20, 2005, 10:22:00 PM

I was in Garth's group at North campus.  I was at CCM from 01-03.  If u wanna talk aim-carrijowa

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2005, 07:47:00 PM

Hi to everyone out there,  
I haven't been on the site in a while. I want to thank everyone for all the information. My dgt was at CCM, her father had taken her up there. I noticed right away something wasn't right. The parents on the BBS sounded like robots, and after searching and watching, I knew that there was something wrong right away. I became a "problem" asked to many questions, checked up on the counselors etc and would not back down from them so they kicked me off the BBS and I never really did anything for them to do that. I read more than posted. Well guys and gals to make a long story short, when they wanted to put my dgt on staff buddy, and had no proof she had done anything wrong, and told me as much. I told them to pack her bags I was leaving work and would pick her up that night. I couldn't believe they were telling me I couldn't do that,In deed I did.I arrived at 1 in the morning they woke my precious dgt up and she left with me. She saw me started bawling and I held her tight. She has been home for a couple of months and is doing really, really well, It took awhile for her not to be away from me in stores and etc. She still was on there fear of punishment. Her dad even had the police after me for domestic kidnapping. It was great! I just wanted you to know she was home, she was at CCM for 4 1/2 months. Thanks again for all the good advice and info. God Bless

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Antigen on September 07, 2005, 08:06:00 PM

:nworthy:

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being of His Father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: OverLordd on September 07, 2005, 09:21:00 PM

You are a honorable person anon. Thank you for simply taking the time to question. With the program thats all that needs to be done with the programs, you just have to question them and they fall on their collective face.

Title: Cross creek manor
Post by: Troll Control on September 08, 2005, 10:38:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-09-07 16:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hi to everyone out there,  

I haven't been on the site in a while. I want to thank everyone for all the information. My dgt was at CCM, her father had taken her up there. I noticed right away something wasn't right. The parents on the BBS sounded like robots, and after searching and watching, I knew that there was something wrong right away. I became a "problem" asked to many questions, checked up on the counselors etc and would not back down from them so they kicked me off the BBS and I never really did anything for them to do that. I read more than posted. Well guys and gals to make a long story short, when they wanted to put my dgt on staff buddy, and had no proof she had done anything wrong, and told me as much. I told them to pack her bags I was leaving work and would pick her up that night. I couldn't believe they were telling me I couldn't do that,In deed I did.I arrived at 1 in the morning they woke my precious dgt up and she left with me. She saw me started bawling and I held her tight. She has been home for a couple of months and is doing really, really well, It took awhile for her not to be away from me in stores and etc. She still was on there fear of punishment. Her dad even had the police after me for domestic kidnapping. It was great! I just wanted you to know she was home, she was at CCM for 4 1/2 months. Thanks again for all the good advice and info. God Bless"

Nice to hear...