Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 24, 2005, 02:40:00 PM

Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2005, 02:40:00 PM
To all former and current students,

The way you guys are handling this situation isn't helping anything. Name-calling, using caps, dropping people's names, etc is only validating the opinions of non-whitmore supporters. I think everyone needs to just accept the fact that others are not going to agree with them, and also that others are going to be critical and suspicious when allegations of abuse are made. I still maintain my positive views of the Whitmore. This is soley based on my unique experiences, and not on anything second-hand.

 I also want to take this chance to bring up an important fact that I may have mentioned previously. During the Joey incident Joey's parents signed a statement stating they had no reason to believe Joey had been abused, that Joey had previously told her he would do such a thing if sent to a facility, and that he had done this before in school atmosphere's. To me, this is a very important detail that offers some insight on how Joey acts.

Chris G
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: BuzzKill on April 24, 2005, 05:07:00 PM
But Chris - other people besides Joey tell the same stories about the alledged treatment he endured.
Isn't that so? If it were just one kid, making such claimes, I'd be willing to accept that the kid was likely "manipulating". But he is by no means alone. This must be taken into account.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2005, 06:29:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-04-24 11:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"To all former and current students,


 I also want to take this chance to bring up an important fact that I may have mentioned previously. During the Joey incident Joey's parents signed a statement stating they had no reason to believe Joey had been abused, that Joey had previously told her he would do such a thing if sent to a facility, and that he had done this before in school atmosphere's. To me, this is a very important detail that offers some insight on how Joey acts.



Chris G"


Ha.his parents must have been blinded.they probably hoped in vain.the ASYLUM was a sane place.......with no hast.they wrote a letter in support of the place??.give them a call///see if the would support the ASYLUM HALL...AMF
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2005, 06:42:00 PM
Chris ...Joey was examined by a physician who stated that his wounds were not self inflicted.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Antigen on April 24, 2005, 06:51:00 PM
Chris, how is it that you come to view the whole Joey incident so entirely differently from others who were there at the time? And I'm not talking so much about the particlars of those incidents; the type that the police and DA would be interested in. I'm talking about the evident fact that incidents like this are quite common at the Whit. Are you asking us to believe that they're all lying?

BTW, I once asked Erica what made her view Cheryl's behavior during the theatre incident differently from similar reported behavior in private. Never did get an answer. I wonder if you (Erica) just didn't see it, didn't know how to answer, don't want to answer. It's ok if you just don't want to answer. But I am still curious about that. So if it's alright w/ you, I'd like to know what yuo think.

People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.

--Benjamin Franklin

Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Former Whitmore Resident on April 24, 2005, 06:52:00 PM
Chris G., I really have to say that you're perceptions or should i use whitmore terms, "Glasses" are evidentally blurred by the brainwashing and slick/sadistic maniupulation of the Sudweeks, and you know what that's not your fault. I could just tell by the way your using the "Whitmore Terms". When people 'use caps, curse, ect, they're ( well I can only speak for myself) but i'm just being REAL and STRAIGHT FOWARD. It's not "validating negativety", c'mon let's be for real here, it's being REAL and expressing whats REALLY inside, not sugarcoating everything, which is what they make you do over there in the Whitmore. With the whole positve negative thing, they also forgot about REALITY. They make you believe that reality isn't what it is. You have to percieve everything as they do or you ''EVIL''.

and with the whole Joey thing, i mean i wasn't there or anything so I can't say that anything is a fact, but from how it appears to me, his mother or whomever was paying $60,000 for him to get treated the way that he did? that's just fucking SICK... think about it
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2005, 07:08:00 PM
I just think cursing on a forum and using obscenities to get back at other people only makes you look childish and rebellious. I dont think it helps to prove your point.

There's a whole other story behind the Joey incident that has not seen the light of day..

~ chris
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2005, 07:48:00 PM
the only light that matters is the one that supports the truth.........read the facts...to be playing at a theater near the SUDS soon....AMF
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Former Whitmore Resident on April 24, 2005, 08:03:00 PM
"There's a whole other story behind the Joey incident that has not seen the light of day.."



Can you explain so I can have a better understanding?
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Antigen on April 24, 2005, 08:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-04-24 16:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I just think cursing on a forum and using obscenities to get back at other people only makes you look childish and rebellious. I dont think it helps to prove your point.



There's a whole other story behind the Joey incident that has not seen the light of day..



~ chris"


Ok.. thanks for that, but...

Chris, how is it that you come to view the whole Joey incident so entirely differently from others who were there at the time? And I'm not talking so much about the particlars of those incidents; the type that the police and DA would be interested in. I'm talking about the evident fact that incidents like this are quite common at the Whit. Are you asking us to believe that they're all lying?

I mean, you never really did deny that he got roughed up, did you? You just excused it by telling us all that he was drunk and obnoxious. (therefore deserved a good beating?)

That's pretty much what I thought when they asked me to testify against Straight. Sure, they broke my nose. But I was misbehaving (refused to apologize to Group for having split and to thank them for the precious gift of another chance, yadda yadda) What else did I expect but to get beat up?

I shit you not, I thought that at the time. Not that it was right exactly. Just that outsiders just wouldn't understand. Wicked little bit of slight of mind, eh?

I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer

Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Rodney on April 24, 2005, 10:19:00 PM
Chris G- Do you honestly think that if the authorities and Joey's parents thought Joey did this on his own and manipulated the situation that an investigation would have been done??  Nephi is a small town with few resourses and I highly doubt they would have wasted the tax payers money.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2005, 10:27:00 PM
Understand that when the abuse incident was first reported to Joey's parents the Sudweeks lied to them and told them THE "Joey ran away  and was drunk, and being a bad bad boy STORY," and the parents BELIEVED the "religious, children-loving-Suds"....but once the parents talked to the REAL AUTHORITIES, and understood the REAL STORY, and the injuries their son suffered...they quickly supported their son.
People must remember--the SUDS can be convincing, and are accomplished liars, and are really really good at manipulation of kids and THEIR PARENTS.

Chris G: you might ask your Mom why she got bumped from the "elite Parent Chat site."
Cherly no longer needed her password once Tori's mom "got invited to join." Cheryl didn't need to use her any longer. That's how the Suds operate.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2005, 10:45:00 PM
My mother actually has no computer skills and was booted out when account renewal came up. I have to admit she was upset after finding out she couldn't go there. In regards to Joey, it's true he was very drunk and had taken lots of pills. I was with him for part of the night and did not see any abuse towards him that was directed by Mark or Cheryl. I had heard that he had been pushed around my 2 kids. That's all I know.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Antigen on April 24, 2005, 11:09:00 PM
Chris, this just doesn't add up. Lots of different people have described an environment where the Suds and their faithful control everything from attitude to salad dressing choices. And you want me to believe that this kid got injured and the Suds had nothing to do w/ it? Then there's the Lake Powell incident. Several different people who were all there all telling the same stories. Not only about what happened to Joey, but similar treatment of other kids too. They're all making it all up? Why would they? Some of these kids had genuine affection for the Whit. You know that's true.

I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.  I'm certainly not!  But I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!  
-- Monty Python

Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2005, 12:21:00 AM
There is no story.no hidden information....all the events have been throughly investigated, documented..........very intuitive, JOEY's parents were conned out of a letter......well, so.........think they would support the letter today????.............HA...SUDS will face the facts..............supporters?...ain't about anything other than the facts,,,,,AMF
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Antigen on April 25, 2005, 12:57:00 AM
This is typical, though. So they let good old Chris in on the top secret, special info that explains it all away. But it's a secret, so he can't discuss it, so no one can challenge it. When that fails to pan out, all the good and faithful will dutifully forget all about it and continue to not discuss it while the next crisis de jour takes shape on center stage.

I almost can't believe they told you guys that the Canadians shot their horses!  :rofl:

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2005, 10:08:00 AM
Chris, ask you mom why she gave Cheryl her "secret password" so Cheryl could spy on the "elite parents" invited to join that Caring Parent chat site...now what is RIGHT ABOUT THAT? She couldn't get back on that site for one simple reason: Cheryl had a new "spy..." Alana Degarmo. Tori' Mom-- and didn't need your mother any longer. Wake up Chris!!!!! You are defending deceitful people who use people. Just like they are using you now to defend the UN-defensible! Regardless of what happens about these abuse allegations, you need to step back and think about what you are saying. MORE than a couple of kids "roughed up Joey." Not saying you saw it, or were even aware of it. But it did happen. Mr. Godfrey has no reason to lie. Det. Kimball has no reason to lie. Eight students (those who were enrolled at Whitmore at the time of Joey's abuse and former students---have no reason to lie...and are telling very very similiar stories of abuse by the Sudweeks and they don't even know each other.) NOW who has a reason to LIE?
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2005, 10:12:00 AM
NO HORSES WERE SHOT IN CANADA.  Those horses were adopted out. Plain and simple as that.
I do hope the Suds in all their religious fronting do believe in "heaven and hell" so that they know exactly where they are headed for eternity---H E L L !!!! Liars have no place in heaven!
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Gmom on April 25, 2005, 10:54:00 AM
I was also told by Cheryl that the horses were all shot in Canada.  In fact, my sister had accompanied me on that trip to the Whitmore and also heard the stroy.  Unbelievable, the lies the Sudweeks tell.  Look you right in the eye and lie through their teeth.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Antigen on April 25, 2005, 06:58:00 PM
Gmom, did you believe it at the time? Did your sister? I mean, I guess I don't know that many Vancouverans, but those I do know I can't imagine them shooting a bunch of horses out of spite. In fact, I can imagine them anguishing over having to put down a lame, old, sick horse even if there were no better option.

The disrespect for the possession laws fosters a disrespect for laws and the system in general... On top of this is the distinct impression among the youth that some police may use the marihuana laws to arrest people they don't like for other reasons, whether it be their politics, their hair style or their ethnic background.
                                                                     
Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding

Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Gmom on April 25, 2005, 09:22:00 PM
I thought it was sort of wierd.  I really couldn't imagine that happening.  But, strange things do happen.  Cheryl had told us the story before, but I had forgotten about it, until she mentioned it again.  This was at the very end of my granddaughter's stay, and I had been at the Whitmore a couple of times close in time.  It was those times that I started to feel things were not what they should be -- noticed a lot of things I didn't particularly approve of or like.
As far as my sister believing the horses were shot, her feelings were the same as mine -- thought it was sort of a strange thing to happen.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2005, 09:29:00 PM
It's amazing to me this story that the horses were shot??  I believe it is common knowledge by now that 29 horses and 7 dogs were removed from the premises.  When all this ruckus first took place- I think it was Jan 2001 the Suds blamed the harassment on the local penecostal church - now the horses have supposedly been shot?? NO, they were not shot- they were fined $120,000 in civil fees for the care of thoses horses.  Don't know if they paid it or not- probably not, on top of everything else they are probably dead beats too.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Joyce Harris on April 25, 2005, 10:13:00 PM
What's "sad" is the kids who post here telling how Cheryl repeatedly tells this STORY about those horses being shot by the Canadians to the Whitmore kids, and crying and carrying on while telling this to the kids. What could possibly be the point of all this? It goes without saying it is very emotional and upsetting for a bunch of kids to hear this type of thing. Just some twisted way for Cheryl to "bond?" Another twisted way of instilling a WE against THEM mentality against authority?
It's the same with the Sudweeks instilling in the kids that the Nephi Police "hate US and are out to get US." Kids are suppose to be able to at least believe the police are the "good guys."

The Sudweeks even do that with these kids' parents-- parents are presented as THEM. Again it is US against THEM from the Sudweeks' perspective.
None of it makes sense: Evil Canadians...evil police...evil parents.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2005, 11:12:00 PM
Joyce- I agree. And I know what their point is to all this-  it's a sick one, but here it is-- it is only to take the attention of blame off of themselves and put it onto another- in this case the bad, bad people who supposedly shot the horses.  They tend to take facts and mangle them.  I read their transcript on the net about Joey- and although I wasn't there to witness the Joey event---the explanation sounds very much like others I have read from them pertaining to other events.  I emailed you a few days ago- haven't heard from you.  Rodney
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Antigen on April 26, 2005, 12:01:00 AM
It's even more insideous than that. Sometimes control freaks intentionally tell outlandish lies; daring the people who love them to challenge them on it. Why do you suppose Chris is so silent on the horse thing? He must have heard the Suds' version many times and likely has read the transcript. So what's a good faithful follower to do?

It has ever been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues

--Abraham Lincoln

Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 02:00:00 AM
I have read the transcripts, as well as the pure /wwasp transcripts. as far as the horses go, I've always seen them maintained with care. I can only base my opinion off my own personal experiences.
Chris
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Antigen on April 26, 2005, 06:31:00 AM
Ok, and did you personally experience the vindictive Canadian horse shooter stories?

Hands that help are far better then lips that pray.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: BuzzKill on April 26, 2005, 10:56:00 AM
Where you there when they left the one horse to die and went to the lake?

How much do you know about horses in general Chris? Have you had much experience with them, apart from Whitmore? Do you know how terrible Colic is for a horse? I'm wondering about your frame of reference when you say: I've always seen them maintained with care.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Joyce Harris on April 26, 2005, 11:10:00 AM
Hi Chris,

Don't want you to think everyone is ganging up on you--and I enjoy your postings.

But if you read the Canadian transcripts--you KNOW that no one shot a bunch of horses. So what DO you think about Cheryl Sudweeks weeping and telling a bunch of kids some crock of a story like this?

Various students--who were at Whitmore at different periods of times have posted about Cheryl wailing and crying and telling this fanciful tale. She has told this TALE for years.

My question was WHY?  WHY would a grown woman who FIRST OF ALL has no qualifications to be leading a "goup session" to begin with upset a group of teenagers with some pitiful UNTRUE TALE?

You were at Lake Powell with everyone when Casie's horse died.
When you kids got back---how was THAT DEAD HORSE explained away?  It's been posted here "Casie neglected the horse."  That's not true. Casie loved that horse.

P.S.--Hope college is going great for you!
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Couture on April 26, 2005, 03:02:00 PM
I was just wondering if anyone heard about Cheryl near death experience in the plane crash?  Not sure if it was true, sounded pretty unfathomable to me.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 03:13:00 PM
Oh, I can't WAIT to hear about THIS one!!  Was she crying when she talked about that too?

So, if the horses weren't shot (which is an apparent fact) then where did all the tears Cheryl was shedding come from?  Seems pretty easy for her to turn them on and off when she finds she needs to either shift the focus or gain sympathy.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Rodney on April 26, 2005, 03:26:00 PM
Couture- Yes, Cheryl told me about the plane crash too- it was quite awhile ago when she told me- actually mentioned it twice.  All I remember is that they came down into the water- I think it was in Canada near their Lodge.  Then she was under water and Mark had to pull her out.  Just that she seemed thankful to be alive.  Hell, I don't know- at the time it seemed believable.  But that's all I remember of it.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 03:54:00 PM
Is the the GREAT ACCIDENT Cheryl had that convinced the Canadians that she JUST COULDN'T stand trial up in Canada for the Horse deal?

So, Markie Boy stood trial "like a man," and went before the Canadian Court and tried to blame it all on a bunch of "foster kids" and his own daughters. NOW THERE'S a Man for you!

So Markie, the GREAT PILOT crashed his "toy" into the water and almost drown his beloved wife?

WOW! what a story!

And the Suds survived all this to pack in a bunch of kids into a rat-infested house they call a "mansion" and scam parents as they abuse their kids.  Couldn't even make up something this sick if you tried.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Joyce Harris on April 26, 2005, 04:02:00 PM
Someone needs to write a book!

What's the chronological order of all this mess?

Dead horses in Canada....big ole plane crash/saving the drowning wife....killing horses in Mexico....killing horses in California ....ABUSING Joey.... Being "expelled from Mexico" because of illegal papers for kids.... the crazy cruise with the Whitmore Kids...the Lake Powell trip where Cheryl washes paper plates to save pennies...Moving operation to Utah.

Dang!  What a mess!  And we parents paid thousands of dollars per month for THIS?
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 04:31:00 PM
An evolving book.....more chapters to follow????....Hear the investigation of the NOV 2004 incident of ABUSE..(Cheryl & Mark led assault on JOEY) is eight volumes....their going to need some healthy, (ALIVE) horses to bring all the evidence to the ASYLUM for review......strike that......heck, they don't need to review the facts......a large storm is a brewing..their a ruin as to their own doing.........arresting, no confessing.....your honor///we can present many witnesses who would be guessing......FACTS going to teach the tweaker and peek'er a lesson...THE SCHOOL????...its through.........AMF
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 06:32:00 PM
Checked google, Yahoo: Williams Lake...all that area of Canada---no reports of a plane crash involving anyone named SUDWEEKS.

Airplane crashes are reported!
Think this may be another big Sudweeks tale, sort of like the "they shot the horses" tale.

Come on people--the Sudweeks just like to tell tales.

But IF IT HAD HAPPENED: bet Mark Sudweeks really had to think hard before he made that decision--do I save this woman OR NOT?????
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 08:38:00 PM
I'll be entirely honest, when I first heard the horse story I thought it was totally bizzare. It was later explained to me that the RMCP or some other Canadian agency had put the horses down because they were sick. Personally I am a bit confused and know little about that situation
chris
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 08:49:00 PM
Chris: here's the trial transcript: read and learn---Mark Sudweeks was found guilty of animal abuse/neglect--HORSES AND DOGS; and paid a HUGE fine, and was banned from owning animals in Canada!!!  No one shot any horses.

Sudweeks was found guilty--then lost his appeals attempt.  End of story.

htt://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL-S ... dweeks.htm (http://htt://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL-SEIZURES/Reging-v.Sudweeks.htm)
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Antigen on April 26, 2005, 08:53:00 PM
I think there were one or two who had to be put down. The rest were adopted out and one was found dead in the pasture.

The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people. His servitude is strictly objective.




--Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958

Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 08:56:00 PM
You know it's sort of like the Suds story about Joey: The kid got drunk, he was was out of control, he's a liar, no one hurt this kid.

Well someone did! sort of like someone abused and neglected those horses up in Canada.

Joey did not "help himself down a flight of stairs,"  Cheryl Sudweeks pushed him!

Joey didn't tie himself up down at the Boy's House and beat the shit out of himself as Mark and Cherly looked on--a gang of Whitmore boys did---and Detective Kimball knows exactly which boys!

Joey didn't beat himself up in the duck room--two Whitmore students did, because Cheryl made them...and one of them has told Det. Kimball all about that little event.

So the time of the Sudweeks tall tales has come to an end: people, including Whitmore kids have and are telling the TRUTH--and hopefully the Suds are pissing in their pants!
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 10:46:00 PM
WOW.........you know too.........WELL,WELL.......the tail is no longer wagging the dog..........that last post is fairly accurate indeed..........SUDS aren't pissing yet.......arrogant fools they are.......new bracelets for Cheryl...and a better view for Mark......dang....sure going to miss em...........hello Alana......glory for TORI..............AMF
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 11:43:00 PM
Cheryl probably has a tall tale about Lake Powell too! Guess she'll just tell that she was mistaken that Joey stole that cookie--just punished him by MISTAKE!!!! Suppose Joey just LIKED sleeping outside the tent in the cold cold weather....and walking barefoot collecting wood for her stupid nighttime bonfire while all the other kids had fun. SURE that's how her tale will go! Guess Joey was faking an asmatha attack as all those boys held him face-down in the dirt til BRAVE Markie Boy said: "That's enough Cheryl."....yea, tweakie Cheryl will have a grand tale to tell about Joey's fun time at Lake Powell. Just hope she gets to tell it to a Judge.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Couture on April 27, 2005, 12:51:00 AM
I am sorry, what is the 'boys home'?  That was non existent while i was there.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 27, 2005, 01:01:00 AM
Boys House: a separate "facility" a couple of blocks from the Mansion where the boys stayed. It was where the Sudweeks had the license for the "treatment facility."  Actually all the kids went down there for GROUP, and there was a big screen TV there too...but just boys actually slept there (or at least that was how it was suppose to be set up.)  It was closed when the license was revoked after the abuse allegations in Nov 2004.
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 27, 2005, 04:57:00 PM
that's all bullshit because when i was there last the boys and girls lived at both places, some boys and girls even mixed in the same level.

tisk tisk...
Title: to all former and current students ~ from chris g
Post by: Anonymous on April 27, 2005, 11:17:00 PM
The BOYS HOUSE is a one story house located at 200 South St.  The Mansion location is at 100 South Main St.  What was written about the Boys House is NOT BS.  That is the locations...and that is how it was set up by the State of Utah for the licensing. Exactly how the Sudweeks followed the RULES....I have no idea.

But that is how the 2 different locations are situated.