Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: juniper on April 20, 2005, 08:15:00 PM
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We were under the impression until recently that there were no court ordered children at HLA...
Does anyone know about this? Who is responsible to pay their tuition?
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There have always been court ordered kids. I believe parents are still respondsible for the fees.
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How do you know, do you know for sure.??
We were told that was not the case before
going to HLA.
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SHH posted that she sent grades and progress reports to parents, grandparents, ed cons, and 'probation officers'.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =100#96194 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8631&forum=41&start=100#96194)
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Oh, my God...'probation officers'?? What about that SHH?? I just read what you had written, is
that true? Rather was that true then??
No matter what the child does, small infraction,
telling the truth; or, huge infraction, the
children are all treated the same by some
demented idiot.
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Is there anyone out there that would know the percentage of the children on probation? and,
probation for what reasons??
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Deborah Sorry...
Is that you or Robert re: court referred
children?
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I don?t know what the situation at HLA is currently, but other programs that take adjudicated youth frequently have a contract with the state to ?treat? their juvenile offenders. There could also be teens there whose parents negotiated with the court for placement in a private facility rather than state run. In the latter case, parents would pay.
Some programs are open about it, particularly wilderness programs, and claim to keep adjudicated and others separated.
My older son spent six months at a marine military academy. They told parents that they didn?t take teens with criminal records or severely distressed kids. It came out during the lawsuit that indeed boys had arrived in handcuffs.
I?m not sure where you?d go to find a definitive answer to that question.
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Most of the kids that are on probation there are on it because they have tried to "walk down the road" or "escape" from the program. They get apprehended, arrested and put on probation.
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This is what I remember from sending out report cards.....and this was 1997-1998, so I have no idea what percentage it is now, but...back then the state did not have any sort of contract with the school to send juvenile offenders there. But, there was a very small number of students who were given the option to go to a therapeutic school instead of a juvenile detention facility or military academy as terms of their sentance if you want to use that term. I only remember sending out maybe at the most 2 or 3 report cards a semester to probation officers. And as far as I know tuition was paid by parents, or guardians, or insurance, not the state. The overwhelming majority of students were there because their parents enrolled them, or through an educational consultant and parents. Now back then the school was smaller than it is now. I think that maybe it had between 60-100 students between 1997-1998. Thats a guess but should be close. But like I said, I have no idea what the ratio is now, or even if they have kids who were placed by judges anymore. YOu would have to check that out yourself if possible.
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SHH - Thanx for the info...
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The following is a letter I had written in response to a concerned parent who currently has a child at Hidden Lake Academy:
"Hello. The letter you viewed was one I'd written last year around this time actually. I'd love to answer any questions you have. I must first ask though, why was he sent to HLA? The reason I ask is because you need to ask yourself a very serious question, Was the way he was before he went to HLA as dangerous as how he may feel upon his life after HLA? I'll give you a quick background of my story in order for you to understand. Right up to the time before I went to HLA, I had ceased caring whether I lived or died and had become a wandering junkie among the streets after dropping out of school and running away from home. I was sent to HLA upon a court order. I don't want to go into detail about how horrible my experience was at HLA, but I will say that there's no real individual counseling in order to find out what each child needs. It's all done the cheapest way possible in order for them to still say that they are counseling, which is group counseling. Group counseling on a mass structure can be successful when everyone may be suffering from the same problems such as Alcoholics Anonymous, but in this case what one child needs another may not. You must also understand that because of this they fill everyones heads with the same rules of life by breaking down everything they've been taught and rebuilding their thinking. This sounds as if it could be good, yes? But it's not. It's not actually correcting any problems. It's covering them up with a therapeutic veneer and teaching them to suppress their problems since they're not actually working through them. This insures that they may seem like things are better for them and that they're cured for a long enough time for them to leave HLA and then some. As you know though, anything suppressed will eventually surface and need to be dealt with again. So in actuallity HLA did nothing except offer a temporary fix. For some it does work, but very few. Most of the children end up with double the amount of problems, because you then have to worry about the same old problems accompanied by the trust issues and identity disorder that HLA has installed. After leaving HLA I started noticing that I felt like a robot. It took awhile to figure out who I was again. Through all this searching I was lucky, because I started noticing subtle beauties in life that made me want to live, plus being sober I was able to look back at all the wrongs I'd done and people I'd hurt and became determined to change some of my ways. Now I'm a very happy person for the most part, but I do suffer from some problems that I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to overcome, because my mind doesn't recognize them. They're purely irrational thoughts that I can't control which cause me to have panic attacks. I have social anxiety disorder and some serious trust issues from things my last psychologist said had become such a deep part of my psyche that it was part of my personality and could become a danger to try to change. I have learned to function fine as long as I take my medication. I am in a very successful relationship, my parents and I are now much better friends, and I care about my life as well as others'... Once again, I must say, that was my story. Everybody's story's different. For some the rebellious teenager is just a phase. It's practically impossible to know that though since we can't see the future. My parents have apologized a few times about getting me sent to HLA, because they see what it has done. They say that if they could go back they would do things differently. I don't think it's that easy though. I needed some help and my parents just didn't know what to do. I do not blame them for anything. They did what they felt they had to after we'd gotten into some serious scuffles and they saw me slowly but rapidly dying. You can see why I said that this is a very hard question to deal with. My advice personally is not HLA and is one on one counseling with the whole family. Make sure also that the psychologist is not a friend of anyone in the family, because you do not want them to be tempted into taking sides because of the personal relationship he/she has with a family member. For all we know, there may be things about all of you that may need to change in order for there to be that balance that your family needs. I know that's how it was for us, my family that is. This means that you must be open for anything that your therapist may say to you without getting defensive. There is no easy way out of this. Remember that... I to have never told my parents certain disturbing things that have gone on there, because they already beat themselves up over sending me there, so I can understand why your son is reluctant to say anything. Plus there's also the fact that he's scared to because of what they may try to pull. I was brainwashed into trying to commit suicide when they found out that I was trying to get my court order dropped because I felt like I'd worked through all of my problems, mostly on my own because i was willing and wanted to change things in my life. They wanted me to slip up and try something so as not to lose my money. It didn't exactly work as they wanted it to because we discovered what they were trying to do. Avarice and the ability to control someone's mind don't mix... Concerning your academics worry, there are no real academics. In spanish, the answers were always on the bottom of the page upside down and no teaching was involved, just worksheets. It's a gimic in order to make the parents feel as if some change is occuring. You cannot fail a class, you get incompletes until they make you do it with work assignments or calistenics. I remember when I made honor roll, my parents were so proud that I didn't even tell them that I was only in my first week of the school classes and hadn't actually done anything yet. So he may get good grades, but there's no serious learning taking place. I'd be more worried about his being able to function upon leaving than his academics though, because his credits should transfer fine. But he may do horrible in the next school because although it states that he made an A in the previous math class, there's a good chance he didn't learn anything, so it's going to be more difficult for him to keep up since he's been out of a real school environment for so long... I hope that all of this will encourage you to make the decision you feel is best. I'm sorry you must go through this, but since you must, please make the best educated decision possible. This is your son's future and possibly his life at stake. Since you obviously care about him in order to seek my help, I'm sure you'll do what is best. Here is a link yu may find helpful, http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm... (http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm...). Are you aware that there are a few class action lawsuits in the works against HLA?.. Please do not tell HLA that you have spoken with me. They are very powerful and have the ability to come up with answers to anything, hence the psychologist part. I'm risking alot by sharing these things with you. Thankyou and Goodluck. Love, Me"
I have posted this with the hopes that I could help answer some questions for those in worry. If you are planning to or know someone who may be planning to undergo such circumstances, please forward on this letter. Thankyou.
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I was court ordered in '97.
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most of the people that i knew were either court ordered to go there, or came from juvie or from wilderness programns before hand, it was all because their parents were trying to rectify the situation that their child had put them in.
http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuse ... 4735459296 (http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&groupID=100144848&page=2&EntryID=9384554&CategoryID=0&get=1&adTopicId=29&lastpagesent=0&Mytoken=3822500C-8135-41F1-A0CA0C6E8E99F4E4735459296)
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i know for a fact kids were court ordered.
i know kids who's p.o.'s actually came on campus
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it was a great deal more than the "2 or 3" Susie is claiming.
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in my peer group alone 5
i could give out names
i wish devin was here because he knew these kids too and could easily corroborate what i am saying
dan pg 26.
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i'd say a good 25% were court ordered when i was there. they had p.o.'s who contacted and updated on their case. some p.o.'s even visited the campus to see their clients.
if they're saying they don't accept c.o. kids, well, that's not true.
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The number is definately not 25%. The majority of kids sent to Hidden Lake are sent by educational consultants.
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So you can read but you cant count?
75% is more than 25%.
Thus if 25% of the students at HLA were court ordered the MAJORITY would be sent from an education consultant.
Interestingly enough though, even if it isnt 25%, HLA claims that they dont admitt c.o. kids. Yet this is not true.
Why the lie?
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It is not actually a lie. What a judge will often do is suspend a childs sentence until they complete the program. If the family does not want to take this alternative, the child will then be ordered to a locked facility. Judges often like to give this option for kids who have committed a minor crime but obviously do not belong in a locked facility. That is why they offer HLA as an OPTION, not an order.
Kids will come in saying, and possibly truly thinking, that they are court ordered, when technically that is not the case.
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extend the sentence, order.
what's the difference?
semantics. master of manipulation,
spinning illusions.
like identifying as a private school while
therapy is the primary purpose.
it really would be satisfying to watch you writh with anguish while being forced to take responsibility for your behaviors.
you're all worse than the students.
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Very true. All it is is playing with semantics. The kids are told they can either go to HLA or go to jail.
Simply because they had a choice does not mean they werent ordered to be there. They simply had a choice in where they were ordered to go.
And still there are other kids who do fall under the category of having simply been ordered there.
So add that to the lie.
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On 2005-12-18 11:09:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"Very true. All it is is playing with semantics. The kids are told they can either go to HLA or go to jail.
Simply because they had a choice does not mean they werent ordered to be there. They simply had a choice in where they were ordered to go.
And still there are other kids who do fall under the category of having simply been ordered there.
So add that to the lie. "
This is true. There are many kids who are mandated into HLA - no semantics or choices.
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Yes, and there are such who also, at the time of admission got sent to HLA because it was that or jail. And then I also know that if your counselors even have a remote idea that there's a possibility it could get lifted and/or your parents might want to withdraw you, they will mess with you and put you in situations where you will be made to look like you are a loose cannon and you need a place like HLA. A counselor tried to do this to one of my best friends who got pulled because his court-order got lifted and his counselor tried to screw him over and tried to contact his probation officer but the kid's parents laid it on his counselor and he successfully got out. Upon him leaving, his counselor told him "Good luck, you won't last longer than three weeks. You'll either end up in jail, or dead." He's been out and is still alive an kickin, not dead, or in jail. He's been out for about three or four months now.
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They tried something very similar to me.
It just shows further that all that really matters to HLA is the bottom line. Money.
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On 2005-12-18 19:30:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"They tried something very similar to me.
It just shows further that all that really matters to HLA is the bottom line. Money. "
You got that right.
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On 2005-04-21 06:14:00, revengeofamuffin wrote:
"Most of the kids that are on probation there are on it because they have tried to "walk down the road" or "escape" from the program. They get apprehended, arrested and put on probation.
"
Using the law to supply fodder for the abuse factory. What a great idea.
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One consistent theme I have noticed about the supporters of this program is that they are more than happy to engage in nonsensical arguments about people's sexuality, guessing identities, bashing, etc.
However, they totally and completely avoidany legitimate questions about their own behavior, policy, "discrepencies" between marketing materials and actual practice, sex offenses by employees, or any other serious topic of discussion.
For someone looking for real answers to these serious questions, it seems like a tacit admission to these transgressions.
I also noticed that their own message board, discusshla.com, is actually not any type of discussion whatsoever. The editor deletes any and all discussion about the negative aspects of the program to try to make it appear as if there is actually nobody who has ever been dissatisfied with their program. It seems just to be a marketing tool to advertise, not discuss anything.
If the program is so great, why shut off all dissenting comment? It looks to the outside observer like the administartion is a bunch of baby Stalinists.
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Grand Larceny, Drug Traffic, Breaking and Entering, Stealing Cars, Etc..This is not light
stuff...
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Ah, the risks of aggragating distressed teens.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 250#164570 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=250#164570)
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On 2006-01-13 16:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
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Ah, the risks of aggragating distressed teens.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 250#164570 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=250#164570)
"
That is a great study. I was very surprised at the statistical significance of the findings.
Let it stand as a warning to parents every time they hear phrases like "peer group," "positive peer culture," "peer therapy," etc.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-01-13 16:58 ]
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yeah uh.. i know for a fact kids who committed 3 or 4 felonies and then were MANDATED to HLA. there was no "go here and charges get dropped" it was, your going to Hidden Lake, or we press full charges, and youre on probation while there, so if you fuck up, straight to jail you go.
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Yet still HLA claims there are no court ordered kids there.
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Not to mention that HLA's staunchest supporter on this site has admitted to mailing progress reports to probation officers.
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Posted: 2004-04-28 14:14:00
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If anyone is thinking about possibly sending your child to HLA, please listen to what I am about to say...Okay. I'm not sure really where to begin. I'll start with why I went there... I was court ordered there for assualt and battery on my parents during a cocaine overdose, unruly child; dropping out of school & living on the streets, and a few drug paraphenalia charges due to proof of parents. I was 16 at the time of my conviction, to then turn 17 just a few days on entering HLA... That was in 1997. I am currently 23 and do have control over my life, which is an aspect very different from my dark days. I consider my self to be well educated and have been very succesful with relationships, including my parents... There are some hangups though. I have suffered from Social Anxiety disorder upon leaving HLA. No matter who I've talked to, I just can't seem to get past it. I also suffer from pretty disturbing nightmares & bouts of spontaneous depression. Luckily, I have people in my life that love me for who I truly am... Ever since I have turned my life around, I've done my best to help those when it seems applicable & even when it doesn't. I have this quote I like to say, " I am so full of Love because I know so much of Hate."... About HLA... Although there is the one point I can't ignore, if I hadn't been admitted to HLA I probably would be dead, there is still the fact that after walking in there to rid myself of problems, I exited with a whole new set of problems... So, when it comes down to it, I don't really know what to say. HLA is Evil. There's no doubt about that. They're exploiting young minds for the sake of profit and for even stranger deeper personal control issues. Brainwashing is also definately involved. There were things they had done to me that I hadn't realized till much later, when I realized that a decision I had made wasn't what I wanted to do, but what HLA had programmed me to do, and not in a good way. For parents who have kids there & it seems to be working, trust me, it will, but only for a short while. After one starts adjusting to their natural environments in society again, it will all be realized and,sadly, there will undoubtedly be problems again. Why? Because they are not really themselves. They all were broken down in the same ways, and they were all built again with the same techniques used on everybody. Nobody is the same. That's why programs range anywhere from 3 wks. to a few years. I was there for 10 of the 18 mo. I still feel to this day that I was ready to be released at around 4 mo. ANything thereafter was very very unhealthy for me. Nobody is the same. EVeryone thinks and percieves differently. If you don't believe me, go to http://www.personalitypathways.com (http://www.personalitypathways.com) and take the Myers-Briggs online type indicator test. Hopefully these tests will be given more regularly in schools while children grow up, so as to avoid things like this and so everyone may respect each others differences more wisely... I told myself I wouldn't talk specifically about any certain incident at HLA, but I do want to give you one example that'll hopefully terrify you. When HLA found out that I was trying to get my court order dropped & that I'd secretly written the judge, they tried in many ways to get me, or should I say make me, stay. One specific incident included me, 3 of what I like to call psycho-manipulators, one of these being MIKE WITHERSPOON, and two other kids who'd been placed as dorm heads and had been at HLA longer. Almost every kid there would sell you out very fast for special privledges, and these two guys just happenned to be that way. Long story short, they all took everything I said & did & turned it around to make me think I was suicidal. They knew that if I tried to kill myself w/ them interveneing or had a written statement, that I wouldn't be able to leave. I had been there for around 5 mo. at this time. Well sure enough, I tried to slice my wrists open with a pair of scissors. Let me just say this, I knew something was up when they were talking to me like they were in that little room, but I have always considered myself a trusting individual & so I was not aware to what these people who're supposed to be helping me were trying to do... Now, that is pure evil. There is not one person who wouldn't have done what I did. That is there job, they are psycho-manipulators who have a backup & excuse for everything. When I told them what I knew they had done & busted out into tears, there was no feeling behind those eyes...none... The only reason I changed at HLA when it comes to the problems I had previous to this place, was because I realized that I was a good person inside & only I could change my life. It truly had very little to do with the program, well, except for the motivation to get out of there... SInce HLA, I have been successful in everything I do, but everywhere I go, I constantly fight horrible feelings. I always fight & I always win, but they are always there & I wonder if I'll ever be able to push through them... If you care at all about your child, do not send them there. In fact, I am so adament to having these facilities that you only see in movies shut down, that I'm willing to offer giving my best advice to whatever the situation may be in which you are consulting this site for. My E-mail is [email protected]... Trust me, before sending your child to a place as such, please consult me to discuss further options. I have a friend who is now a child psychologist and a former HLA student. He is putting out a book about his life and the crime, hate, and illusion of love that went into HLA. Please, if you Love your child, don't send them to a place like this. ALthough things may seem good for awhile, it is inevitable that they won't stay that way. For your child is no longer him or herself...
Just further evidence that HLA actively seeks and retains court-ordered kids, some of whom are violent offenders like this young man was.
If you believe what they market on their website, you might as well stamp "SUCKER" in black ink on your forehead. You deserve to be fleeced if you go for that line of BS.
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Oh no Dysfunction he was given a choice. Electric chair or the school. See not court ordered. I CANT HEAR ANYTHING ELSE YOU SAY HE'S NOT COURT ORDERED LALA LALA LA.
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Funny. Sounds about right.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer
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From My Space
Age 23
Posted: March 12, 2006 10:21 PM
I'll give the teachers credit for getting me a hich school diploma, I would have never graduated if I wasn't arrested and court ordered there.
Posted: March 27, 2006 11:50 PM
I went to jail 1 1/2 years after leaving hla, my parents think hla was a fucking waste.
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On 2006-02-02 07:16:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Posted: 2004-04-28 14:14:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone is thinking about possibly sending your child to HLA, please listen to what I am about to say...Okay. I'm not sure really where to begin. I'll start with why I went there... I was court ordered there for assualt and battery on my parents during a cocaine overdose, unruly child; dropping out of school & living on the streets, and a few drug paraphenalia charges due to proof of parents. I was 16 at the time of my conviction, to then turn 17 just a few days on entering HLA... That was in 1997. I am currently 23 and do have control over my life, which is an aspect very different from my dark days. I consider my self to be well educated and have been very succesful with relationships, including my parents... There are some hangups though. I have suffered from Social Anxiety disorder upon leaving HLA. No matter who I've talked to, I just can't seem to get past it. I also suffer from pretty disturbing nightmares & bouts of spontaneous depression. Luckily, I have people in my life that love me for who I truly am... Ever since I have turned my life around, I've done my best to help those when it seems applicable & even when it doesn't. I have this quote I like to say, " I am so full of Love because I know so much of Hate."... About HLA... Although there is the one point I can't ignore, if I hadn't been admitted to HLA I probably would be dead, there is still the fact that after walking in there to rid myself of problems, I exited with a whole new set of problems... So, when it comes down to it, I don't really know what to say. HLA is Evil. There's no doubt about that. They're exploiting young minds for the sake of profit and for even stranger deeper personal control issues. Brainwashing is also definately involved. There were things they had done to me that I hadn't realized till much later, when I realized that a decision I had made wasn't what I wanted to do, but what HLA had programmed me to do, and not in a good way. For parents who have kids there & it seems to be working, trust me, it will, but only for a short while. After one starts adjusting to their natural environments in society again, it will all be realized and,sadly, there will undoubtedly be problems again. Why? Because they are not really themselves. They all were broken down in the same ways, and they were all built again with the same techniques used on everybody. Nobody is the same. That's why programs range anywhere from 3 wks. to a few years. I was there for 10 of the 18 mo. I still feel to this day that I was ready to be released at around 4 mo. ANything thereafter was very very unhealthy for me. Nobody is the same. EVeryone thinks and percieves differently. If you don't believe me, go to http://www.personalitypathways.com (http://www.personalitypathways.com) and take the Myers-Briggs online type indicator test. Hopefully these tests will be given more regularly in schools while children grow up, so as to avoid things like this and so everyone may respect each others differences more wisely... I told myself I wouldn't talk specifically about any certain incident at HLA, but I do want to give you one example that'll hopefully terrify you. When HLA found out that I was trying to get my court order dropped & that I'd secretly written the judge, they tried in many ways to get me, or should I say make me, stay. One specific incident included me, 3 of what I like to call psycho-manipulators, one of these being MIKE WITHERSPOON, and two other kids who'd been placed as dorm heads and had been at HLA longer. Almost every kid there would sell you out very fast for special privledges, and these two guys just happenned to be that way. Long story short, they all took everything I said & did & turned it around to make me think I was suicidal. They knew that if I tried to kill myself w/ them interveneing or had a written statement, that I wouldn't be able to leave. I had been there for around 5 mo. at this time. Well sure enough, I tried to slice my wrists open with a pair of scissors. Let me just say this, I knew something was up when they were talking to me like they were in that little room, but I have always considered myself a trusting individual & so I was not aware to what these people who're supposed to be helping me were trying to do... Now, that is pure evil. There is not one person who wouldn't have done what I did. That is there job, they are psycho-manipulators who have a backup & excuse for everything. When I told them what I knew they had done & busted out into tears, there was no feeling behind those eyes...none... The only reason I changed at HLA when it comes to the problems I had previous to this place, was because I realized that I was a good person inside & only I could change my life. It truly had very little to do with the program, well, except for the motivation to get out of there... SInce HLA, I have been successful in everything I do, but everywhere I go, I constantly fight horrible feelings. I always fight & I always win, but they are always there & I wonder if I'll ever be able to push through them... If you care at all about your child, do not send them there. In fact, I am so adament to having these facilities that you only see in movies shut down, that I'm willing to offer giving my best advice to whatever the situation may be in which you are consulting this site for. My E-mail is [email protected]... Trust me, before sending your child to a place as such, please consult me to discuss further options. I have a friend who is now a child psychologist and a former HLA student. He is putting out a book about his life and the crime, hate, and illusion of love that went into HLA. Please, if you Love your child, don't send them to a place like this. ALthough things may seem good for awhile, it is inevitable that they won't stay that way. For your child is no longer him or herself...
Just further evidence that HLA actively seeks and retains court-ordered kids, some of whom are violent offenders like this young man was.
If you believe what they market on their website, you might as well stamp "SUCKER" in black ink on your forehead. You deserve to be fleeced if you go for that line of BS.
"
They (HLA) do lie quite a bit. They have a problem with truth telling.