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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 19, 2005, 08:04:00 PM
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Contact Montana Media with your WWASP experience and any related links. Spring Creek Lodge, Thompson Falls, Montnana.
oped@missoulian.com (http://mailto:oped@missoulian.com),
mwallis@ktvq.com (http://mailto:mwallis@ktvq.com),
ajones@kbzk.com (http://mailto:ajones@kbzk.com),
Pkonecny@kxlf.com (http://mailto:Pkonecny@kxlf.com),
jannay@krtv.com (http://mailto:jannay@krtv.com),
kajnews@kpax.com (http://mailto:kajnews@kpax.com),
news@kpax.com (http://mailto:news@kpax.com),
mgulledge@billingsgazette.com (http://mailto:mgulledge@billingsgazette.com),
editor@billingsnews.com (http://mailto:editor@billingsnews.com),
citydesk@dailychronicle.com (http://mailto:citydesk@dailychronicle.com),
edit@dailyinterlake.com (http://mailto:edit@dailyinterlake.com),
hbrock@havredailynews.com (http://mailto:hbrock@havredailynews.com),
asorensen@havredailynews.com (http://mailto:asorensen@havredailynews.com),
irstaff@helenair.com (http://mailto:irstaff@helenair.com),
newsargus@lewistownnews.com (http://mailto:newsargus@lewistownnews.com),
news@livent.net (http://mailto:news@livent.net),
dkilloy@midrivers.com (http://mailto:dkilloy@midrivers.com),
pathfinder@montana.com (http://mailto:pathfinder@montana.com)
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Good idea. I'd suggest errecting a bill-board or placing an add in the local paper that says
End Institutionalized Child Abuse at Spring Creek Lodge and other teen programs
Then have a picture of the hobbit with a child in it.
Involving the press is great - You can also write your own letters to the editor condeming institutionalized child abuse - especially now that there is a new bill in the House. Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
Washington Superior CourtJudge Rebecca Baker
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While Spring Creek may be the only known WWASPS facility, there are some other questionable programs in Montana as well; Montana Academy, Monarch and Mission Mountain, to name a few.
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Also, keep in mind Spring Creek Lodge is a big employer, the town of Thompson Falls is ridiculously small. The also offer 1 grand to anyone who catches a kid who runs!
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Well there ya go - that's why it's still operating - for political and economic reasons. This is why WWASP programs in the USA continue to thrive. They are a major employer of small towns and they donate heavily to local politicians.
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I love the billboard Idea!!I wonder how much it would cost to do it.
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On 2005-04-26 14:29:00, cherish wisdom wrote:
"Good idea. I'd suggest errecting a bill-board or placing an add in the local paper
That worked to some degree in St. Pete with regards to Straight. I was driving down the street and damn near broke my neck when I saw a billboard that was put up by some other survivors. It was accompanied by an article in the St. Pete Times and that prompted me to Google Straight and led me here and a few other places.Legalizing drugs would simultaneously reduce the amount of crime and raise the quality of law enforcement. Can you conceive of any other measure that would accomplish so much to promote law and order?
--Economist Milton Friedman
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On 2005-04-27 07:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
The also offer 1 grand to anyone who catches a kid who runs!"
Really? Wow! :eek: Hadn't heard that before.Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
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I went to Spring Creek and graduated. There is no beatings, or not letting kids eat. That is kids that left that are just bitter. Those kids just want attention and they get it only by telling those horrible stories.
I have read alot about these stories. I am not going to disagree that some of the stories are really bad. But in NO way did any of that stuff happen while I was there.
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On 2005-04-29 21:06:00, Brown wrote:
"I went to Spring Creek and graduated. There is no beatings, or not letting kids eat. That is kids that left that are just bitter. Those kids just want attention and they get it only by telling those horrible stories.
I have read alot about these stories. I am not going to disagree that some of the stories are really bad. But in NO way did any of that stuff happen while I was there. "
Perri, is that you?? :lol:
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I'm the person you're looking for. CONTACT ME. ASAP with your stories/experiences with Boarding Schools in Western Montana. I need to hear from you IMMEDIATELY.
E-MAIL: mtwriter26@hotmail.com
It will take about five seconds for you to verify that I am a legitimate reporter, but I need to hear from you now.
Thanks.
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I just got out. It isn't abusive. It sucks being taken there, But the kids that loose weight are the kids that starve them self trying to get out. I don't agree with the program but by know means was SCL abusive.
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How long were you there for? What group were you in? Why are you posting ANON? How do we know you don't work for WWASPS? Just something to think about.
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Brown,
Everyone is entitled to share what their personal experince was. Remember:there is no right or wrong just your perosnal experience. Everyone is entiled to being validated as they feel they experinced SCL it. If they feel they were abused,they probably were.If yopu werent luck ofr you.No need to feel guilty for what it took for you to graguate. Or maybe,as only you know for sure,maybe you do.
Goody for you, you graduated.........
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There is a thread in a myspace group saying SCL got 'soft' since that girl killed herself.
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I am from the area of SCL, so i guess i would be a "local". I know people who have worked for the organization and its hard for me to believe that if they had witnessed any kind of abuse that they wouldnt do the right thing by reporting it. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying you all are lying, just saying its hard to believe. But heres a question: if there are so many kids treated as bad as the forum suggests, why hasnt SCL and other places been closed, subject to criminal and civil charges, or the parents of these kids freakin' out and blowing them up? How do you shut an organization down that is this bad? YOU GO TO THE MEDIA, YOU DOCUMENT AND JOIN TOGETHER AS A GROUP TO GO AFTER THEM IN THE COURT SYSTEM. If the catholic church has to respond and take action for molesting children, these organizations do too. They are not above the law.
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On 2006-03-16 16:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am from the area of SCL, so i guess i would be a "local". I know people who have worked for the organization and its hard for me to believe that if they had witnessed any kind of abuse that they wouldnt do the right thing by reporting it. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying you all are lying, just saying its hard to believe. But heres a question: if there are so many kids treated as bad as the forum suggests, why hasnt SCL and other places been closed, subject to criminal and civil charges, or the parents of these kids freakin' out and blowing them up? How do you shut an organization down that is this bad? YOU GO TO THE MEDIA, YOU DOCUMENT AND JOIN TOGETHER AS A GROUP TO GO AFTER THEM IN THE COURT SYSTEM. If the catholic church has to respond and take action for molesting children, these organizations do too. They are not above the law."
The groups already exist, people speak out all the time. Time, and various other mainstream news sources have done numerous pieces on the abuse of WWASP, yes it is abuse. The reason why they aren't shut down? Because most people have the same naive beliefs in "government should have solved it already if something was wrong" just like you. Dig a little deeper if you are interested. Find out why these programs are so prevelant in states like Montana, Utah and Nevada. Find out why WWASP is the largest political contributor in the state of Utah. Find out why so many politicians own their own program, for political and financial benefit. They are very much above the law when the states refuse to enforce the law already on the books. Everything you suggest has been done many times over. I'm sure this horrible treatment will not last forever, just like it took the Catholic church decades to own up to it's misdeeds. I am curious, what qualifications did your friends have to work with children?
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or the parents of these kids freakin' out and blowing them up?
:lol: :lol:
You'll have to ask them.
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First off, I do not believe that the "'government should have solved it already if something was wrong' just like you". What i do believe is that no person, organization or politician is above the law even if they want to pretend to be. Sorry if I am an optimist. The people I have known to work at SCL: some are highly qualified (BA or MA degrees in pscyh or social work), and some had high school diplomas. I know exactly how corrupt the local officals are--remember i am from the area and have went to school with kids from similiar organizations. I know why places like Montana, Utah, Nevada and Idaho are used to store the 'wayward youth'--its remote, easily concealed, lack of respectable authority to respond to complaints, and parents have the opportunity to send their kids to rural location thinking they wont have access the same things urban kids have. But they are only kidding themselves.
My overall point is not to argue, but to remind people that the law doesnt stop at local and state level. We have superior courts too; i.e., federal level. If abuse is happening, keep fighting the system. They cant ignore it forever--even tho' it may seem that way. I only stumbled on to this site by accident (typos) and wanted to give a locals opinion. And after reading a lot of the commentary, it seems like some people are more concerned with bickering than striving forward. Honestly, i dont have a stake in this forum, so either listen to what the outsider has to say or continue to argue and get no where with it. Peace.
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Thanks, local. I, for one, really apreciate your taking the time to comment. Please understand that a lot of the bickering happens between pro and con program people. I don't censor or ban anyone for any reason except for spamming, flooding or hacking (and those can be suprisingly ambiguous terms, b'lieve it!)
So you've bravely stepped into an extremely contentious situation. Please don't take it personally if people are a little raw, suspicious or sometimes downright paranoid.
The other anon is quite correct, though. People have gone to the courts, sued, pursued criminal action, gone to the press... just about anything you can think of.
But you're also right that, eventually, it'll do the trick.
Personally, I think the inception and growth of the industry directly reflects the political and social shift toward authoritarianism in this country over the last 30 years. Note I didn't say left or right; both color teams are up to their eyebrows in it, even though the Dems tend to use kinder, gentler words to describe what they do.
I think we'll see this particular brand of sadistic lunacy phased out as we return to our senses in general. Ok, IF we're able to regain our senses and autonomy again. But here's hopeing!
"Men seldom, or rather never for a length of time, and deliberately, rebel against anything that does not deserve rebelling against."
--Thomas Carlyle
I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
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The main reason the programs are in Utah, etc., is that they are parent friendly states - by that I mean that if a kid doesn't want to get off drugs, doesn't see they have issues, etc., they can refuse to go to programs in other states that give kids rights like that. Can you even imagine a drugged out kid saying, sure I'll go! :rofl:
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Can you even imagine a drugged out kid saying, sure I'll go!
Yes, I surely can, and it happens everyday. Believe it or not MOST teens that get help, do so without being forced in day treatment and other drug therapies and clinics. Can you imagine a teen wanting to try all the fun things his friends told him about while being locked up for two years when he gets out? I can.
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To extinguish the free will is to strike the conscience with death, for both
have but one and the same life. -- William Ellery Channing
_________________
EST (Landmark/Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
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On 2006-03-17 12:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The main reason the programs are in Utah, etc., is that they are parent friendly states - by that I mean that if a kid doesn't want to ...
Marry some old perv w/ 14 wives, get beaten on a regular basis, pretend to believe in John Smith's magical eyewear, etc., why that's just okee-dokee w/ the saints.
Yeah, we know what "parent friendly" means in Utah!...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana
is its effect on the degenerate races.
Harry Anslinger
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On 2006-03-17 16:57:00, Eudora wrote:
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On 2006-03-17 12:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The main reason the programs are in Utah, etc., is that they are parent friendly states - by that I mean that if a kid doesn't want to ...
Marry some old perv w/ 14 wives, get beaten on a regular basis, pretend to believe in John Smith's magical eyewear, etc., why that's just okee-dokee w/ the saints.
Yeah, we know what "parent friendly" means in Utah!...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana
is its effect on the degenerate races.
Harry Anslinger
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Well, I didn't want to go there, but... :wstupid:
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On 2006-03-17 10:08:00, Eudora wrote:
"Thanks, local. I, for one, really apreciate your taking the time to comment. Please understand that a lot of the bickering happens between pro and con program people. I don't censor or ban anyone for any reason except for spamming, flooding or hacking (and those can be suprisingly ambiguous terms, b'lieve it!)
So you've bravely stepped into an extremely contentious situation. Please don't take it personally if people are a little raw, suspicious or sometimes downright paranoid.
The other anon is quite correct, though. People have gone to the courts, sued, pursued criminal action, gone to the press... just about anything you can think of.
But you're also right that, eventually, it'll do the trick.
Personally, I think the inception and growth of the industry directly reflects the political and social shift toward authoritarianism in this country over the last 30 years. Note I didn't say left or right; both color teams are up to their eyebrows in it, even though the Dems tend to use kinder, gentler words to describe what they do.
I think we'll see this particular brand of sadistic lunacy phased out as we return to our senses in general. Ok, IF we're able to regain our senses and autonomy again. But here's hopeing!
Thanks for that vote of 'confidence'. I hope my point got across and people read it. I just wanted to say keep up the fight. I know these places will get shut down but it wont be done by bickering but by spreading the word. More bee's with honey!
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"The other anon is quite correct, though. People have gone to the courts, sued, pursued criminal action, gone to the press... just about anything you can think of. "
So people have taken all these actions, and gotten no results? Doesn't that indicate that even after the kind of scrutiny that comes with lawsuits and criminal prosecution, there's not really much of a case?
These programs look terrible when you read all the entries at sites like this, but when you actually get specific and address the allegations one by one, and require non-anonymous witnesses, you see that the programs in general just aren't what many of you claim.
The same odd impulse that causes people to lump all the programs together is the one that ultimately weakens your entire argument. They aren't all alike, they vary enormously in their approach and their level of quality, and many are in fact doing a great job.
Any campaign that relies on sentimentality and dramatic antics for its effect can't be sustained because real life requires hard facts and evidence.
In contrast, the few cases out there that showed evidence of real problems demonstrate that the system actually works fine. Bad programs should be closed, or forced to improve; that's already happening.
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Any campaign that relies on sentimentality and dramatic antics for its effect can't be sustained because real life requires hard facts and evidence.
I agree.
Can you please show the hard evidence in the form of a clinical study that shows that the programs you support do any good whatsoever?
Thanks.
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On 2006-03-21 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
So people have taken all these actions, and gotten no results?
No results? ROFL :rofl:
Program after program shut down
Directors and employees beating the pavement
Corporate reorganizations and name changes as a way or life
Legal bills that must rival the public debt of many mid sized cities
Granted, it's a uphill battle. We're working against a mighty strong desire for a silver bullet solution to the myth of out of control kids. It doesn't help, either that the people currently squatting in the White House and several governors' mansions around the country are up to their eyebrows in the child abuse business.
But we are making some progress.
Here's the thing, though. If these kids really were half, even one tenth as dangerous and deranged as you fuckers like to say, you'd all have died violent deaths already. So are you sure you want to complain about the lawsuits and criminal investigations? I can think of worse things than finding yourself bunking w/ Charles Long III. Not many, but some.
O senseless man, who cannot possibly make a worm and yet will make Gods by the dozen!
--Michel Eyqyem de Montaigne, French essayist
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On 2006-03-21 14:42:00, Eudora wrote:
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On 2006-03-21 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
So people have taken all these actions, and gotten no results?
No results? ROFL :rofl:
Program after program shut down
Directors and employees beating the pavement
Corporate reorganizations and name changes as a way or life
Legal bills that must rival the public debt of many mid sized cities
Granted, it's a uphill battle. We're working against a mighty strong desire for a silver bullet solution to the myth of out of control kids. It doesn't help, either that the people currently squatting in the White House and several governors' mansions around the country are up to their eyebrows in the child abuse business.
But we are making some progress.
Here's the thing, though. If these kids really were half, even one tenth as dangerous and deranged as you fuckers like to say, you'd all have died violent deaths already. So are you sure you want to complain about the lawsuits and criminal investigations? I can think of worse things than finding yourself bunking w/ Charles Long III. Not many, but some.
O senseless man, who cannot possibly make a worm and yet will make Gods by the dozen!
--Michel Eyqyem de Montaigne, French essayist
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Nah, you can't have it both ways. Either the results aren't there--in which case there isn't that big a problem, and this stuff is mainly sensationalism--or the results are there--in which case the system is working. This is a logical conclusion based on your point about all the things people have tried.
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Bad programs should be closed, or forced to improve; that's already happening.
Do you think WWASPS is a good program?
They are expanding at an ever-increasing rate. They are known throughout the industry as the worst of the worst, and they are doing the best financially.
I disagree with your assumption bad programs are being shut down. They are reborn under a new banner, there are more programs today than there were yesterday, and until that trend stops, closing one or two will do nothing in the long run.
IMO, it's up to the public to turn against the idea of locking up teens for no reason. Until that happens, politicians look good owning programs, parents feel good trusting them, and the children (wasn't the point to help them in the first place?) get fucked. So long as 53% of this country believes people should be jailed for smoking marijuana, I doubt anything will change. It's bigger than just programs, it's the entire drug war and fear mongering.
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On 2006-03-21 16:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
So long as 53% of this country believes people should be jailed for smoking marijuana, I doubt anything will change. It's bigger than just programs, it's the entire drug war and fear mongering.
I don't even believe that's true. Figures never lie, but liars sure can figure. I think only a rare few believe that anyone should be locked up for smoking pot or other dissent gestures. But those few are bullies. Fear mongering is their favorite and most sophisticated trick.
The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being of His Father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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On 2006-03-21 15:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
Nah, you can't have it both ways. Either the results aren't there--in which case there isn't that big a problem, and this stuff is mainly sensationalism--or the results are there--in which case the system is working. This is a logical conclusion based on your point about all the things people have tried.
It's a big problem that's taken a couple of generations to come to a head. See how the national media is treating your buddies down in Florida? Look into the callibur of journalits behind those by lines. Some of these guys covered The Seed when it was the summer sensation story.
And they're not quitting with just Guy Tunnell, Frank McKeithen and the thugs they employed there in Bay County, either. They're digging into their affiliates and associates, who else they've beat up during their careers and, most importantly, where they got their training. I've seen reference to the `93 DOJ report on boot camps in the mainstream at least a dozen times in the past week or so. Hell, even Faux News came down hard on those struggling turkeys, using words like coverup, murder and torture. They even focused conversation for a good sustained minute on the particularly sadistic practice of repeatedly reviving the victim w/ smelling salts so they can fully apreciate the "counseling".
When you can't even count on Faux to support an extreme authoritarian position on any issue, I think I hear the fat lady clearing her voice.
Just think; by the time we all retire, these kids will be in charge of Social Security. I don't know about you, but I'm stackin' up the brownie points right about now! LOLThere is so much in the bible against which every insinct of my being rebels, so much so that I regret the necessity which has compelled me to read it through from beginning to end. I do not think that the knowledge I have gained of its history and sources compensates me for the unpleasant details it has forced upon my attention.
--Helen Keller, American lecturer
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If the theory that an informed public would not stand for these facilities is true, then why has Guantanamo Bay been shut down?
All it taks is a little reading and you find out most of those people there had nothing to do with 9/11 and were being tortured for no reason. Besides the occasional outcry, nothing has been done. Nothing at all.
I guess I am not as optimistic as ya'all about these places ever being eliminated once and for all. Way too many stupid parents out there to exploit.
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Well, I guess I just take a longer view of history. The industry didn't grow up in a vacuum. And Guantanamo Bay didn't either. Just look into the history of the School of the Americas (aka School of the Assassins) and opposition to it. The difference between Gitmo and any work camp run by American trained counter revolutionaries is that you've heard about Gitmo.
Slowly but slowly the worm turns.
I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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Here are two reporters who are REALLY doing stories on Spring Creek Lodge:
John Adams
Staff Reporter
anna.rau@umontana.edu (http://mailto:anna.rau@umontana.edu)
kufm@montanapbs.org
Rumor is she's working on a documentary expose about SCLA