Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Elan School => Topic started by: nick on October 25, 2002, 12:09:00 PM

Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: nick on October 25, 2002, 12:09:00 PM
I wasn't part of the riot, i broke it up.i think you missed the point because you probably one of those punks that i was speaking of. thanks for sharing though.
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Kaz on October 25, 2002, 01:47:00 PM
What was this riot in elan I keep hearing about?I heard stories that the police had to come in because it was so out of control.I was in Elan from 89-91, I guess this took place after my time.
Fill me in I would love to hear the details.
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Carmel on October 25, 2002, 04:20:00 PM
You may be right Nick, its such a complex point to miss.  

Sorry, I wasnt there...wasnt even violent in the program I was in.  But hey, I was a punk anyhow right? I deserved it!  Right....note to self: Any form of rebellious behaviour deserves to be beaten directly out of the person exhibiting it.  I think I will go home and beat the shit out of my 5 year old for acting like a punk.  Can I borrow those gloves?
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: nick on October 26, 2002, 11:03:00 AM
the riot included a bunch of gang members and such from indiana and chicago,who did not want to comply with the program.so they bagan fighting and threating and it took all three houses to go to e-8 to get it under control.it resulted in criminal charges and the were sent back to there states.
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: nick on October 26, 2002, 11:08:00 AM
i dont have any gloves you can borrow,but i will loan you some information on how to GET A LIFE.sorry if i offended you but i dont come on this site to argue petty issues.i was merely stating my opinion.

[ This Message was edited by: nick on 2002-10-26 08:11 ]
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Antigen on October 12, 2003, 05:04:00 PM
Quote
On 2002-10-26 08:03:00, nick wrote:

"the riot included a bunch of gang members and such from indiana and chicago,who did not want to comply with the program.so they bagan fighting and threating and it took all three houses to go to e-8 to get it under control.it resulted in criminal charges and the were sent back to there states."


Hmmm.... so it worked, huh? Yah know what? 20 years ago, I honestly didn't know this would work. I could never understand why people went to the trouble of acting out and getting beat down when it was pretty obvious that it would always end the same futile way. But I was a willing victim of a little slight of mind. Here's how that worked.



A word from our gracious hosting provider.

As always, folks who don't want to talk about this old shit, who find it boring, irrelavent, disturbing, offensive or whatever are under absolutely no obligation to read or respond. Anyone else is absolutely free to do so.

So, in case anyone lost their sense of irony somewhere in the woods of Maine, I will ask (ask, not demand) that you please not bust yourself as a hypocrite by taking my bandwidth and your time and trouble to post to the effect that you don't want to talk about it or how not worth your time it is or how nobody has a right to breath the word Elan above a whisper unless they can name a house number and a memorable GM.

Highest regards,
Bastard Administrator


 Most of the rules that we compliers had to comply with had to do with restrictions on communicating with anyone, including oneself, candidly about anything that happened.

Someone please tell me if any of this seems familiar to you, if maybe they did the same thing in Elan but used different lingo.


  1. No talking behind people's backs. None. You can't say "Joe said hi to me" unless Joe was right there. You'd have to say "I was said hi to" if you wanted to include that detail and make it legal, in which case, it would be meaningless. So, essentially, we did not talk about anything that was going on at all, it was verboten. The most verboten degree of breaking this rule was to mention anything at all that would remind anyone of anyone who had not shown up. You couldn't even get away with "Somebody is no longer with us" or "has departed" (both mandatory terms after Chris Casselor came out and informed us that the term "split" was now considered druggieslang and would, henceforth, be verboten.
  2. No getting into your head! Simple as that. Zero tolerance policy on daydreaming.
  3. No sleeping. In the car on the way to or from the building, in group, before everyone's MI was done and olcomers had read and discussed newcomer MIs, while the other 5 or so people took their showers, etc. No sleepig except the few hours you might catch after all the obligations were met. Oh, and house parents? This means you too!
  4. Pay attention to the person who's talking. Not the person who's alternately screaming and crying and begging for mercy on the floor next to you while the rap leader calls for another, louder round of "Zippity Doo Dah!" Unless, of course, the scene is pushing you so close to the edge that you decide you're prefer to get your ass kicked by about 4 people, but at least you don't have to sing and flap your arms around like a seagull on acid and pretend, for all you're worth, that you've never been better, ever!

    Hell, look at them?! Don't even THINK about them! Refer to rule #2 above.


At the end of the day, a lot of us compliers actually didn't notice when someone went missing. It was like the Watership Down. We had loud and angry raps and confrontations to burn into our conciousness every single instance of anyone who tried to escape, either physically or mentally, and was caught. But not one whisper was permitted about those who actually got away.

If staff felt the need to say anything, and sometimes they did, it was that they had just died or ODd or landed up in the mental ward or were arrested for prostitution or somthing. Oh, going back to jail was a recurring lie. But they were usually lies.

I shit you not, I never even noticed till I was on staff trainee and was receiving instructions to lead a rap that, when someone split, staff had kept notes in their file about what songs that person had taught the group and would never again allow it to be sung by group. They'd say "lets have a song" and they'd call on someone for a suggestion. If it was on the banned list, they simply picked someone else.

Now that I've run into a lot of former program people (something that, for a long time, I thought I would never contemplate doing, unless I were driving a big, stoute car or truck) I've learned that there were a dmaned lot of people who I remember being there and then I don't.

 But I never noticed them slipping away at the time. The perception was that nobody ever got away, they always got caught and severly punished.

Understand that legal and illegal are political, and often arbitrary,
categorizations; use and abuse are medical, or clinical, distinctions.

--Abbie Hoffman



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2003, 09:02:00 PM
the riots that im aware of is in 1980,, i thunk,the residents of e/4 went off,, tore the place apart,elans  answer was to turn it into a hospital/jail setting,electonicly locked doors, cells in the womens dorm.they stopped pushing concept of any kind and brought in muscle gaurds instead.after a while they shipped everyone out to jail or hospitals, leaving 3 or 4 that  stayed. when they made that documtenary, they sent most of the peeps from e/5 to parsonfield.it  took a few more months to remove the locks, i seem to recall a button in a little room off the main hall.the residents  that stayed told really creepy stories about the kind of shit that went on during the riots and after  concept was removed,, almost an anything goes as long as u dont get caught on the spot.to this day,, i m haunted by the sounds of screaming from the cells,shortly after we got there,, we went tight, and the cells became a easy place to put the real whacked 1s.if therer are such things as haunted  houses,,that house is
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Antigen on October 12, 2003, 09:57:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-10-12 18:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"after a while they shipped everyone out to jail or hospitals, leaving 3 or 4 that stayed. when they made that documtenary"


Sounds real similar to me. Were you allowed to talk about them afterward? To say their names? Heard from any of them since?

What documentary?

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.

--Mark Twain

Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2003, 03:28:00 AM
was called children of the night ,, i thunk..um,, let me try to rephrase what happened ,, in short,,,there was a riot{in e/4},they pulled the plug on the whole housse as far as any pretense of therapy,then they sent the whole house{cept 3 or 4} to whatever other locked facility they could.. then they  repopulated house with mostly e/5 residents{ i was 1 of em}they moved us under the pretense of making up a new house{e/5} to shoot the film.i assume was handpicked crop of  uber  residents. i was always courious about the timing,, i wonder  how long  those last residents were kept in 4,, w8n for  the house to fill.i do seem to recall a gaurd there when we arrived, but  cannot gaurantee.the tales they told of the time was ripe with glasseaters, rapes, and beatings.i have no clue of there wherebouts,,i recall 1 13 yr old there for burning down an apt building  cause the lady didnt pay her paper bill.. these wernt nice people.i dont think they ever responded to the program,, they spent there time between ramrod and shotdown till realeased ,, i assume
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Nazi on October 13, 2003, 08:39:00 AM
I can just picture it now, A riot breaking out and Jeffery,Marc, and Marty tucking their tails and running.
I remember one time I was getting a GM and I was so pissed off st Marc I raised my voice to the point of rage and marc backed the fuck off so fast.he sensed I was pissed and new it was in his best interest to back off.
Jeffery really didn't want to confront me at this point either so approached me in the most gentle fashion he could.
Both of these guys were intimidated of me at this point and knew I had enough of their bullshit and the program's bullshit.
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Antigen on October 13, 2003, 12:04:00 PM
Anon, I can't say I've ever heard of that exact scenerio at a Straight facility. There have been riots, though, and individuals who should have gotten some serious psyche care who, instead, were just isolated and alternately group beaten for days at a stretch.

I don't know about everyone else, but I almost always felt there was a limit to how far anything would go. I've heard since those days from people who didn't have that comfort. And there were some host homes where newcomers got raped and sodomized or locked in a shed for the night with a couple of psychotic dogs tied outside. Those were the "strong" homes for the more scary clients. I didn't see that side of it firsthand because I always just complied right up till the moment I'd make a run for it.

I don't want to get into my place was worse than yours. I think for some kids in either place, it was too, too much and way too cruel and leave it at that.

I'm trying to figure out if they ran the same scam on ya'll about no one ever getting out. When I was there, I believed it completely. The only way I got the courage to run ever was that I knew I was just a little crazier than most and really was willing and able to disapear to some other state without a clue or trace or any tie back to home, friends or family. None of the others who got caught and dragged back would do that. They always went to friends or family and that's how they got caught.

I've found out since that some of the kids who faught all the time or played crazy did either get pulled or kicked to the curb. And I'm trying to find out if the same thing happened at Elan.

Were there restrictions on speech like I described? If someone went missing from your own house, would you really know for sure what happened to them? If they said they went to another house or to a psyche ward, would you ever have a way to be certain? Or would you just have to take their word for it? After someone went missing, would you be allowed to talk to eachother about them? Or was it taboo to speak of?

A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.

--Anonymous

Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2003, 04:29:00 PM
intimidated,, hmmin my time if u  ever yelled at gottlieb in rage,,  hed just put  you in the ringfor 10 or so rounds,, thenhave  your face slammed in the corner if you still reacted  in any way.this is a  man,, who after a resident did a particulary nasty job of  slicing his arms,, had me hold him down while he poured rubbing alchohol on them,, he was mad becouse was middle of the night and it woke him up.. id think he be  flustered becouse he couldnt get 5 guys to kick your ass and throw you in a dumpster for a month.. :silly: as for the director of e/4 at the time,, im thinkin was henry milton{??}
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2003, 05:09:00 PM
anti,, in elan,, in my time,, i must answer no,, i recall 1 female who actually made it out,, { a daring midnite split ,, timed with her b/f pullin up in a car,, but we werent forbidden to talk about it,, it just flowed under the bridge,, there beeing alot more pressing distractions.everyone else i knew that tried to split eventually got caught. i dont think anyone can quantify how bad ,, or good there stay was,, which place was worse,hell is hell no matter how ya slice it,,,, elans way wasnt to forbid talking about anything,,,{cept sex},, they would just distract you with  so many other issues that you wouldnt care about anying that wasnt in your world anymore.. personally,, i never saw sumone actually pull off the old act  fucked up till they let me out  routine.. they tried, but  at most they accomplished was turning there 18 month stay into more hell, till they broke and started cooperating,, i cannot speak for anyone else,, we were much more isolated in e/4 than the poland houses, so it was easier for them to totally control our inputs.no one ever got shipped out,, or just came up missing,, a split was usually noticed within 15 min.then the trackers went out to hunt them.our house was 30 to 50 people,more than enuf peer pressure to  do the directors bidding, and isolated on top of a mountain in limerick maine
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2003, 05:23:00 PM
lol,, ya ,, henrys wife,,is funny the things that slam back into memory,, i thought her  name was claire,, i assumed was the same as the hooker chat thread?she was a nasty 1{not a hooker,, a person},, evil evil
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2003, 11:35:00 AM
Interesting to hear that nazi and about the riot would have loved to been a fly on that wall.
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2003, 11:43:00 AM
what was up with the slicing of arms alot people did that.that must have been there way of reacting to there anger.
Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Antigen on October 14, 2003, 03:29:00 PM
Yeah, lot of cutting and suicide attempts I remember from Straight. Lot of suicides and other mental health issues afterward, too. I read (maybe a rumor) that Ben Foster had a very public boute w/ agoraphobia just when his career would have taken off, if only he could have made the promo engagements. Could be bullshit, I know. But agoraphobia is a common complaint among former Straightlings. Anyone else?

I used to be pretty crazy, but not in a dangerous way. When I first got out, I used to do things like play the same songs while eating the same breakfast every day and rehersing conversations and things I knew I'd have to deal with that day. I was so self concious and afraid of the unpredictable or of, I guess, letting on that I might be crazy that I used to count out ¢83 for cigarettes before leaving the house in the morning, so I wouldn't have to make idle conversation or anything. Then one day, the guys saw me coming and said "Oh, sorry, the price went up. It's ¢87 cents now! Panic!!! I'm much better now (Mwooooohaaahaaahaaa!)  :em:

I'm real interested in the similarities and differences between Elan and Straight-like programs. Were first level ppl allowed to speak freely to eachother? Any contact at all with the outside world? Anyone ever gang up and beat hell out of a staffer and, maybe, escape to jail or to juvy for their troubles?


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Net and he won't bother you for weeks.
--Anonymous

Title: Carmel from Texas
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2003, 05:32:00 PM
i was  unsane when i got out.was quite the culture shock goin  from  full coord of exp. to the streets of cleveland in a few daze,,i couldnt stop strivin for perfection,, and couldnt accept others not understanding how i saw there motivations.. it was an ugly world. i took off ,, went hitchin around the country, threw out all the crap i didnt want.im thouroughly trained to allow an ashtray to get full now,, i like it that way :silly: i think its very hard to explain exactly what,, or how elan in my time was run{to compare to str8}if i rrecall, if newbies spent to much time talking,, they were "spread",, , if your expiditers were any good.ganging on a staff member? i dont think  that could ever happen,, except in a riot kind of atmosphere,, altho i did see jim lehman get punched in the nose during a g.m.was a hoot,, but they guy paid,, and paid,, and paid.i assume there answer to acting out to get out was , if you wanna be  spend your time in the corner,, getting g.med all the time,, ring,, blah blah,, go ahead,, i kno of no case where someone got out early for there troubles..but once again,, this just from what i saw