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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: vortexwx on April 09, 2005, 11:28:00 AM

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: vortexwx on April 09, 2005, 11:28:00 AM

This is really weird. I was standing on the back porch this morning and I started thinking about when I was at RMA, (which is frequent, even after all these years) and for some reason I decided to search online for info about it. I never thought I would find a forum with so many former 'students'. That place really screwed me up. I had a lot of bad experiences there. I also learned a lot of cool stuff. I think that is the main reason I still have issues with the place. The 'counselors' were creepy, the glazed zombie look that the kids who had been there over a year had was creepy, the profeets and groups were traumatic, but I like knowing how to fall trees, split logs, and build canoes and log cabins. It is a mindf*** in a very big way.  

Wow. This is bringing up a lot of bad feelings. I had no idea how much that place affected me, even after almost 20 years.
I am glad it closed.

-Sarah

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Cayo Hueso on April 09, 2005, 11:58:00 AM

I wasn't in RMA, but I was in another mindrape mill, Straight Inc., about 3 years before you went through RMA.  I've had a similar reaction.  They get you at the most vulnerable time in your life and screw with your "core".  

Glad you found the site.  Welcome.

There lives more faith, in honest doubt,
Believe me, than in half the creeds.
Alfred Lord Tennyson

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: blownawaytheidahoway on April 11, 2005, 09:34:00 AM

i found this site the same way, and it has "kicked up" enough to write a book about. Even though this site does have some drawbacks to repetetive use, it has been essential to me to frequent the CEDU topics and post. It is the only place I know where I can communicate with people who have been through the same things...period. It's priceless, if only for that!
as usual
-blownaway

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: vortexwx on April 11, 2005, 10:23:00 AM

Wow, you're writing a book on it? Very cool. How long were you there? I managed to weasel my way out after 7 months...maybe 6 or 8. I can't remember anymore. I don't think it was winter yet when I arrived, but I know I was there for my 17th birthday in May of 86. A lot of that stuff remains in a fog for me.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2005, 10:20:00 AM

I was at RMA from 85-87.   My feelings about RMA are mixed as well.   For the most part it was a bad experience for me. I do not have nightmares about the place, nor have I ever had nightmares.  Most of my nightmares are dervived from pre-RMA material.

I do agree that there is something cool about knowing how to fall a tree, split a log, halter train a calf, and the list of other interesting chores I did while I was at the school.  But I would much rather have had a solid academic education.  

I bought into the the concept of brutal honesty, and wow that was such a BAD idea.     Talk about a way to piss off people.  Post RMA adjustment was a bitch for me.   I was very lonely for many years.    I hope you were not as isolated, as I was post RMA.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: vortexwx on April 17, 2005, 11:50:00 AM

When I got out of RMA I started doing a lot of acid...I don't think reality was an option for me. I quit after about a year, and spent most of the next 4 years on the street. I did isolate myself in a lot of ways. I still do I guess. I stay inside most of the time, and spend more time with my computer than anything else. I did run into one student at the cafe/club I was managing in 1990. He was the same as I had remembered, but that is the only person from RMA that I have seen or heard of since I got out. Have you thought about getting in touch with anyone? I have, but I haven't really tried to. I don't want to post names on here, you know?

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2006, 10:34:00 PM

interesting...reading all the things that my peers have to say about our school...is this the site where everybody reconnects?...classmates.com is pretty empty.

just another Dec.'86 grad

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: shanlea on January 10, 2006, 12:46:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-04-16 07:20:00, Anonymous wrote:


I bought into the the concept of brutal honesty, and wow that was such a BAD idea.      



"

The thing about brutal honesty?  It wasn't brutally honest... it wasn't even minimally honest. Not to us, about us, or to our families.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2006, 02:40:00 AM

I understand the comment about being brutally honest. I was way fucked up socially when I got out of there, and it took me years to adjust to not saying everything about every emotion that came to me. I still have problems on certain levels.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: try another castle on January 10, 2006, 06:01:00 AM

Quote

On 2006-01-09 21:46:00, shanlea wrote:

"

Quote

On 2005-04-16 07:20:00, Anonymous wrote:



I bought into the the concept of brutal honesty, and wow that was such a BAD idea.      





"

The thing about brutal honesty?  It wasn't brutally honest... it wasn't even minimally honest. Not to us, about us, or to our families.  "

I tend to agree. There is a difference between being brutally honest and being brutally inappropriate. I still have a hard time telling the difference between the two, but I'm much better at it than I was before.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2006, 02:51:00 PM

<>

Very well said! What passed for honesty at RMA was nothing more than vomiting in public. When we assign positive value to the irrational and destructive, the dissonance has an emotional effect. The emotions so generated are not 'honest', they are merely symptoms of having been poisoned. Trite as it may seem, it took me years to figure this out!
 When we experience a feeling that is totally out of proportion to an object, it's a sign that we have at some point decided that something good and rational was actually bad and destructive.
 I remember my first day at RMA, back in 1983, I think. I asked one of my roomates if there was an extra pillow around. She said, "No", and I thought nothing more of it. The next day, I was hammered in rap for asking. All of my roomates took turns screaming at me and calling me names for my having asked for a bleedin pillow. These people were not being 'honest', they were in a state of deliberately induced psychosis. Healthy people do not respond to trivia with emotional explosions. We are creatures of reason- and our minds rebel when we condemn or repress those things that make us human- when we sacrifice individuality for the collective, when we let other people's opinions of us inform our self-image, we go down a dangerous road. The Marxist psychology behind RMA leads to nihilism. 'Honesty' indeed- you cannot lie to yourself and be honest with others; if trivial day-to-day happenings trigger rage, then you are not being honest, or making rational assesments of the world around you.

Bridget
Tacoma, WA

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Gabbing on February 04, 2006, 03:09:00 PM

Great Post.

I think the line We are creatures of reason- and our minds rebel when we condemn or repress those things that make us human- when we sacrifice individuality for the collective, when we let other people's opinions of us inform our self-image, we go down a dangerous road. is very accurate.

Marxist psychology?    I am not even sure what Marxist psychology is.   In terms of politics, Marxism comes in many flavors.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on February 17, 2006, 01:34:00 PM

So cool seeing a few people on this site who were there back in the mid-80's.  I arrived in time to see the "First Peer Group" graduate and was numbered the #64th student or around there.
I have bumped into several grads since my Summer of 86 graduation and most were still traumatized, unable to get hold a job, handle school (partly because they had no education at RMA) and had fallen back into pre-RMA patterns.
On the topic of raps and how students and staff would take out their emotional issues on everything and everyone in their line of sight, I too found that so valueless.  Being yelled at for taking an extra minute in the shower, or doing too much laundry, or not getting outof bed fast enough to suit someone, or asking for a pillow.  
It was the rare event indeed when someone got talked to about something important, where the result was growth.  Too often the result was a beating down, berating assault on a student who was always left stunned by the force of the words being thrown at them.  
The problem was that the raps were run by staff who had no idea how to control situations because they lacked control of themselves.  From Tim Brace, to Caroline Wolfe, the staff were simply too untrained to be dealing with 16-18 year olds suffering from all manner of psychological problems, past sexual experiences and so on.  With their Cracker Jack Box degrees, they would attempt to label everyone.  Once the label was on, you wore it till the day you left.  So often however, that label was wrong, yet the student began to identify and accept the label, and since it was the wrong one, they were left more messed up than before.
Knowing so many of the students who were there at the same time as me, I was left feeling that the parents rarely had any idea what was actually wrong with their son or daughter, were too busy to listen and learn, and sent their children, hoping someone could help them out, to a place that was waiting to prey on them and their money with the dream that their child would go in angry and troubled and come out full of love and happiness.  
The students I met had some past experiences with sex, drugs and alcohol, some more than others.  Most of these experiences were not so extreme as to warrant being sent to a school dealing with psychotherapy.  Love and a good rehab center combined with a personal desire, are about the only things that can draw a person away from alcohol and drugs.  
I do remember a handful of students who needed some real help.  I generally don't like to mention names, but I will use the first name of this student as he was a real example.  His name was Scott.  He was a frightened, socially disturbed individual who was picked on endlessly at RMA.  He was there before I arrived, and left sometime after I graduated.  RMA could not straighten him out because he needed real help.  But the parents paid mountains of cash for RMA to babysit him.  This is what RMA is after.  Money.  Nobody denies it.  They do not have the education or credentials to be helping students like Scott, or anyone else for that matter.  But rather than turning down the paycheck, they take these students who need actual help and cause them even more trauma and pain.  

I arrived at RMA because I didn't do homework.  I was labeled as being angry even though I don't raise my voice except perhaps at a sporting event.  Having never used drugs or alcohol, I could not relate to most of the topics being discussed.  I was a virgin when I arrived, though not when I left.  With an IQ and education far beyond my fellow students and probably the staff as well, I often just say back and watched, and listened.  I tried to give good feedback when I could, but early on I found that others didn't really want this.  As the previous poster had said, students and staff would yell at you for the smallest thing, for any reason under the Sun.  The point of the school, for me, was just getting out with my sanity intact and as many relationships as I could make.  
I am still friends with a few of the students from my peer group.  I talk with one weekly and the girl I lost my virginity with is still in the loop.  I have bumped into many students in the last 20 years since I graduated, and all have finally managed to put RMA behind them, and find some level of success in their lives.  It took them many years to find themselves after the insanity they were put through up in Idaho.  But I think they all made it and are "normal" today, as far as society is concerned.  

For me, my family life was destroyed by RMA.  My family disowned me on my graduation day.  I spent 20 years trying to rebuild that relationship but gave up a year ago.  I no longer have an active relationship with my brothers and sisters or my parents as a direct result of RMA failing to do what they were paid to do.  

I hope all of you, parents and students, find a way to sit down and figure out the problems in your relationships and your lives.  You don't need these schools to make things better.  They will only make things worse.  The best thing you can do is not waste time blaming each other for what was done wrong, but try and come up with a solution, that both sides want to the problems at hand.  And parents, you have to accept some of the responsibility for what your child is going through.  They have to know you accept it too.  If your relationship is all about blame and condemnations, obviously you have reached a dead end.  The solution is to turn around, get back to the road and choose a different direction, because the one you are on now is not the one taking you to where you or your child wants to be.  
If your child could do it on their own, they would have.  If they had the will or desire to take a different path on their own, they would have.  As the adult and parent, I want you to take the lead.  That doesn't mean barking orders, it just means leading.  Leaders take the initiative, and others follow them.  Sometimes kicking and screaming...

--Bill,

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: OKB4RMA on February 18, 2006, 05:59:00 PM

good to see you here Bill...I graduated in the group after you.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2006, 11:18:00 AM

VAN RENSSELAER--Alexander. Artist and creative visionary, died Sunday, July 27, 2003 in Marina del Rey. He was 35 years old and had been a resident of California for the past 4 years. A native of Westport, CT, Alex was a direct descendant of Kiliaen Van Rensselaer (1580-1643) of Amsterdam, Holland who was Director of the Dutch West India Company, 1st Patroon, colonizer and forefather of the Lords of the Manor of Rensselaerswyck in the New Netherlands, comprising the present day counties of Albany, Rensselaer and Columbia, NY. He attended Fairfield Country Day School, St. George's School, Parsons School of Design and The School of Visual Arts. Van Rensselaer began his career painting oil on canvas in several different abstract genres while living in Greenwich Village, NY. In 1997, his passion for fine arts and music took him to the West Coast where he continued painting and maintained various collections including one of rare music. An avid competitor in both chess and billiards, he was known for his patience and strategic play. While in Marina del Rey, he became a rated tennis player and joined the U.S. Tennis Association team at the Marina del Rey City Tennis Club. A loving son and brother, Alex Van Rensselaer is survived by Mr. and Mrs. Alexander T. Van Rensselaer, his mother and father of Hobe Sound, FL; Kiliaen Drackett Van Rensselaer, his brother of New York City; Mrs. Roger Drackett, his grandmother of Naples, FL; and by several aunts, uncles and cousins. A family interment at The Albany Rural Cemetery, in Albany, NY will be held on Monday, August 18th, followed by a private reception at the Van Rensselaer home in Westport, CT on Tuesday, August 19th.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2006, 11:19:00 AM

Jason Devereaux Wrather
Jason Devereaux WRATHER Jason Devereaux Wrather of North Bend, WA. Formerly of Grand Rapids, MN & Los Angeles, CA. A Dear, Sweet, Loving Husband and an excited devoted Daddy to Sara and Penelope Wrather. He has so many family and friends that he has touched; he was a caring and patient son to his mother, Nancy-Jo; and cherished his dog, Henry, that lives on at age 18. He Left us way too soon on Feburary 6, 2006. He lived in the fast lane and died in the fast lane. In the true spirit of being a Harley Parts guy, he donated his organs to save others. Roaring sevice of Motorcycles and Family will be held at the family home in North Bend at high noon Feb. 11 2006. Angel Dada, you will live in our hearts forever.
Published in print from 2/10/2006 - 2/11/2006.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: OKB4RMA on February 20, 2006, 05:12:00 PM

Those two guys listed above were two of my best friends at RMA.  I will miss them dearly.   :cry:

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2006, 08:20:00 PM

thank you for posting that, OK.  Did they take their lives?  If they did, that is significant.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: OKB4RMA on February 20, 2006, 11:07:00 PM

I wasn't the person that posted their death notices although it saddens me very much.

Alex Van Rensselaer was one of the kindest people at RMA and a good friend.  I have two wonderful drawings that he completed for my scrapbook and a page full of photos of him.  I couldn't hold back the tears while looking at them.  I'm not sure suicide was the cause of death but googling him shows that his family was an active supporter of NARSAD, a mental health advocacy group so I wonder if he had some sort of illness. Regardless, the world lost a wonderful person.

Jason Wrather was my little brother at RMA...he was also an artist and a good friend.  What saddens me most is that he died the day before I went to Seattle and had his memorial service the day before I came home.  Had I known sooner I would have attended.  I'm not aware of the cause of death for him either.

Jason and Alex...you are both in my prayers and will live on forever in my memories.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: try another castle on February 21, 2006, 07:26:00 AM

Yeah, I knew Jason, too. One of the students in the peer group below mine (we later merged) was close with him.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2006, 11:41:00 AM

OKB4RMA: When were you there? Who was in your peer group? How about you Castle? Who was in your peer group?

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: try another castle on February 22, 2006, 08:20:00 AM

Quote

On 2006-02-21 08:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"How about you Castle? Who was in your peer group?"

people.

people who neeeeed... people.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: OKB4RMA on February 22, 2006, 08:51:00 PM

Quote

On 2006-02-22 05:20:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:

"

Quote

On 2006-02-21 08:41:00, Anonymous wrote:


"How about you Castle? Who was in your peer group?"

people.



people who neeeeed... people.
"

 :rofl:

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on February 27, 2006, 06:45:00 PM

Are trying to list members of peer groups?

My peer, which formed July 7th, 1986 began with me,
Bill Henry.  
Arriving later that day, and thus number 2, was Emily Harris from Atlanta Georgia.  I guess her flight was longer than my own, so I came first.
Todd Atkinson came a couple of days later, and the school decided we would form a new peer group rather than joining the one above us.
The peer group above us included such members as Melissa Lanier, Michelle Falk (before she left), Ron Fichera, Danny Axelrod, Larry Stout, Guy Mayer, (I think Kendra Binnings), Alex Cooper and a few others who made it till the end.

After Todd we had (not in order) Jason Mitchell, Heather Thompson, Geoff Sprague, Mike Bird, and I feel bad because I cannot recall any other members making it to graduation.

We absorbed some "look goods" from the peer group below us who rode with us from about the Values till graduation.  Jaqueline Wright and Russ Decker.  Yes, the same Russ Decker who later became a staff member.  

Russ and Jaqueline came from the peer group of Susan Ellenburg, Jon Prall, Kevin Devorak, Dan Nater, Lisa Hawkenson, Kim Gormann, Chris...  Um...  His dad drove Indy cars, someone will remember him...  from Portland, Oregon...Chris Rogers perhaps???, Sam Walton (of Walmart fame) and I believe Maggie might have been in their peer group as well, but I think she was in the one below that.  Maybe even two below.  I seem to remember Maggie being in the same peer group as Jackie Gubber (Barbara Walters daughter), and they were much younger students.  I think I was in Challenge when Jackie arrived.  

So those are members of three peer groups that arrived between May and September of 1986.

I also knew Alex Van Rensaeler and Kevin Deveraux.  They were extremely younger students though.  I remember Alex because Geoff Sprague, my closest friend on planet Earth, used to spend time with him.  He was very quiet.  And unfortunately became a target of Caroline Wolfe's attention.  I did not know Kevin beyond that fact he was there.  Towards the end of the program you tend to get busy and spend less and less time with new students.  

If we were to plan some kind of reunion how would we go about it, if people were interested?  And I agree, Idaho is not where I want to go and spend any time.

As for why we post annoymously?  I can never remember the passwords I use for these sites.  But I typically sign my name to things since I have so few enemies and those I have are not very strong.

I am willing to start the ball rolling on getting people directly in touch with each other by letting you guys email me directly.  I don't care who sends an email, even if you were not from this time period at RMA.  If you have questions, I will try and answer.  This is my actual email address, not some temp, and I check it daily.  

Epiphanyswr@sbcglobal.net

Drop me a message, friendly or otherwise and I will reply as time permits.

---Bill Henry,

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on February 28, 2006, 03:32:00 PM

Bill you might want to check your dates.  I think you are off by at least a year.

As a small note,   I do not think that its cool to put other peoples names on the board as having attended RMA.  

Just imagine, one of our peers, being googled by a possible future employer, a co-worker, or who ever and then having to desribe RMA or having to lie and say that was someone else by the same name.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: OKB4RMA on February 28, 2006, 04:30:00 PM

Quote

On 2006-02-28 12:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Bill you might want to check your dates.  I think you are off by at least a year.



As a small note,   I do not think that its cool to put other peoples names on the board as having attended RMA.  



Just imagine, one of our peers, being googled by a possible future employer, a co-worker, or who ever and then having to desribe RMA or having to lie and say that was someone else by the same name.  

"

agreed

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Willy B on February 28, 2006, 09:13:00 PM

You are correct, I put the time of our graduation.  Our peer group was formed in July of 1984 and graduated in July of 1986.  

Thanks for keeping an eye on my dates.

--Bill,

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: jacqueline kelly on March 26, 2006, 03:34:00 AM

Hello.

 So sorry to hear about Alex and Jason.

I was Alex's big sister. He was so sweet. Those big doe eyes. Beautiful artist. I have a painting of flowers by him in my bedroom.

I remember when he took a vow of silence. Can't remember how long he stayed silent. But it seemed like forever.

And him comming to school as a bagel.

I remember the staff thinking he was being rebelious- And I was thinking something is seriously wrong...

I think of so many people from back then.

I think of Scooty. Scott. Wonder now if he was autistic? My S.A.T. scores were confused with his.
So for months my family thought I was a genious.

much love to everyone

jacqueline

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: try another castle on March 26, 2006, 05:14:00 AM

I knew Scott for an unbelievably short time, but based on conversations I have had with other people about him, that was the thought that came up for me, too. Aspergers syndrome, possibly. Which makes it even more of a crime what his parents did. My nephew is autistic, and the thought of anyone treating him like people treated Scott would seriously make me want to beat the living shit out of those responsible.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2006, 09:32:00 AM

oh God. CEDU is the last qualified place to deal with anyone with Asperger's. (Or anyone with anything really.) The only thing that school is qualified to do is make it worse.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2006, 09:22:00 AM

I kept in touch with scott for a while after gradution.   Great guy -- very sensitive.   I remember how thrilled I was when he started driving a car.   I am hopeful that after RMA he came into his own. He seemed to be on that track 17 years aago.

Title: RMA 'student' 1985-86
Post by: venicespirit on March 28, 2006, 02:08:00 PM

I remember Alex's RMA vow of silence, seeing as we were in the same peergroup.  In fact he and i were roomates for awhile in NYC, not long after we graduated.  He was definately a unique person, smart, talented, but unfortunately troubled.....  I wish i could say that i was shocked to hear that he took his own life, sadly i don't think anyone who knew him was.  Our peergroup is planning a get together soon in LA and we are planning on sending his parents a video message from all of us.  Apparently his mother was trying to find us all when it happened, but became to overwhelmed with it all and stopped.

Welcome Jacqueline.  I recently found this site too.  It's kind of a trip.  I asked the same questions about the whole "anonymous" thing....  Most people on here won't give up who they are.  Why??  I'm not sure, but they have their reasons - i guess.

~Lauren (Laurie)