Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 30, 2005, 02:32:00 PM
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Good guy?
Bad guy?
What is http://www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com) all about?
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A guy whose daughter went to a program and then he turned Ed Con. Own Struggling Teens website and promotes programs- some proven abusive.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#55108 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6070&forum=9&start=0#55108)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#91271 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8851&forum=9#91271)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#86072 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8531&forum=9&start=10#86072)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#85966 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8531&forum=9&start=10#85966)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#59599 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6464&forum=9&start=0#59599)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#53026 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5848&forum=9&start=0#53026)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#24208 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3366&forum=9&start=0#24208)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=10#1672 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=275&forum=9&start=10#1672)
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He sounds a bit like Sue Scheff at P.U.R.E.
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i attended mission mountain school- a program he supports b/c his daughter found the coercive methods implemented there effective. I personally found the program to be abusive.
He's not in nearly as critical of these programs as he should be. He believes that freedom of industry may be devestated by regulation- presumambly self-regulation is best?, but what the hell does he know- has he walked in the shoes of these kids who have been abused or come out not knowing which way is up?? He seems to willingly ignore the narratives that speak about these abuses and, for that reason, I find him quite dangerous an individual- given his chosen profession.
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Woodbury promotes many abusive programs, including WWASP. He can't be trusted.
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He's a good guy with lots of knowledge about the industry. He does NOT promote abusive programs. Seems his daughter turned out OK!
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On 2005-07-30 14:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"He's a good guy with lots of knowledge about the industry. He does NOT promote abusive programs. Seems his daughter turned out OK! "
Have you ever looked at his website? It's full of ads for programs which have proven to be abusive. He writes glowing reports about programs, but often fails to mention that many of the programs he's writing about are a danger to the safety and welfare of children.
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On 2005-03-31 06:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"He sounds a bit like Sue Scheff at P.U.R.E."
Yup, very like PURE, with one important difference. Lon is pretty much up front about the fact that he's running a business and how he gets paid. The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
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He knowingly profits off of programs that have been proven abusive, or programs that raise many questions. My advice to any parent considering these schools: DO NOT TRUST ED CONSULTANTS. They?re like car salesman (unfortunately parents spend more time shopping for a car then they do for a ?tough love? facility).
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Lon is a ok guy, from what I have talked to him about he is a very knowledgeable person. While not very tack, and he can be blunt, but he is fair and lets me argue on his forum. He is a nice man.
Kristie is also very nice, I have regular disscussions/debates/arguments with her and she is refreshing and very caring and kind. I enjoy or talks.
Yes, both of them are on what we call the other side, yes they do not have the same objectives as us, but they are people to. They would never knowingly condem people to an abusive program. They wouldent shend a child off to WWASP. They are good people who do what they do. While we dont agree, and yes they are wrong :grin: , we can still be nice to them.
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On 2005-07-30 19:16:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Lon is a ok guy, from what I have talked to him about he is a very knowledgeable person. While not very tack, and he can be blunt, but he is fair and lets me argue on his forum. He is a nice man.
Kristie is also very nice, I have regular disscussions/debates/arguments with her and she is refreshing and very caring and kind. I enjoy or talks.
Yes, both of them are on what we call the other side, yes they do not have the same objectives as us, but they are people to. They would never knowingly condem people to an abusive program. They wouldent shend a child off to WWASP. They are good people who do what they do. While we dont agree, and yes they are wrong :grin: , we can still be nice to them."
WTF? I dont even know how to respond to this. OL you are a complicated character it would seem. You seem to start fights, then try and resolve them. Please stay over at struggling teens, you are one of them dude.
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Who is Lon Woodbury?
Answer:
(http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/images/lon.jpg)
Female, male... I am not quite sure? Dipshit? yes.
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Dude!! you jackass!!! I started at fornits and I dont plan on leaving, sure I dont agree with them, but that does not mean their ass holes, I started fights on strugling teens sure, and I plan to start many many more, but kristie and lon are not people I need to fight with, they are adming for gods sake.
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Jackass? :roll: Dont come on here telling people what to post and what not to. I was pointing out your hypocrisy- you started copy/pasting struggling teens shit here more than anyone. You can go suck up to program parents, but don't expect anyone else to. You are so arrogant someone needs to slap some sense into you.
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Yes yes, I started it then I realized how much idiocy it was because people tend not to like to argue if they can be held acountable for what they said on another forum. You will notice that I dont do it any more. I don't tell people what to post and what not to, thats not my place, I was bitching because im going to get shit for this, I just know it because these people act like we are one massive congolmeration and bash on one of us for the actions of others. I dont suck up to them, and you saying that shows your ignorance.
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My ignorance?
You praise these people who send kids to abusive programs. They don't refer to WWASP? Then why do they have a fucking link to their website from their own website? Stop kidding yourself.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/support.php (http://www.strugglingteens.com/support.php)
under 'associations'
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On 2005-07-30 20:22:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Yes yes, I started it then I realized how much idiocy it was because people tend not to like to argue if they can be held acountable for what they said on another forum. You will notice that I dont do it any more. I don't tell people what to post and what not to, thats not my place, I was bitching because im going to get shit for this, I just know it because these people act like we are one massive congolmeration and bash on one of us for the actions of others. I dont suck up to them, and you saying that shows your ignorance."
Yes, you are right about one thing, it was YOUR idiocy which brought all the struggling teens trolls over here.
So we shouldn't post certain things, because it makes us look bad in the eyes of program parents? I hope you are kidding. I could give a flying FUCK what those robots think of me.
Get a clue.
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On 2005-07-30 19:16:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Lon is a ok guy"
Who sends kids off to private jail for years and ruins their soul-- in exchange for a tidy profit. Yeah.. a real OK guy. :flame:
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Christ almighty, fine, whatever, the next time I see you arguing on a hostile board then we can talk, but untill you go over there, get a long on, sign you damn posts, and be a man and put your face to what you believe, what you have to say does not matter.
How is it my fault they came over here? what kind of comment is that? I mean come onm how in the hell is it my fault? And no you should ppost what you want, but remember your making my life harder as I go over there and argue for what we believe in. You dont have to give a flying fuck what they think, but its like shooting some one in the back as he works for you.
I dont praise these people, I say that they are people to, I did not say that they were perfect, I said they they were not that mean. Sweet christ, does that sound like praise to you?
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On 2005-07-30 20:42:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Christ almighty, fine, whatever, the next time I see you arguing on a hostile board then we can talk, but untill you go over there, get a long on, sign you damn posts, and be a man and put your face to what you believe, what you have to say does not matter.
How is it my fault they came over here? what kind of comment is that? I mean come onm how in the hell is it my fault? And no you should ppost what you want, but remember your making my life harder as I go over there and argue for what we believe in. You dont have to give a flying fuck what they think, but its like shooting some one in the back as he works for you.
I dont praise these people, I say that they are people to, I did not say that they were perfect, I said they they were not that mean. Sweet christ, does that sound like praise to you?"
OL, I hate to tell ya this ... but you just stepped in your own doo-doo.
Struggling Teens is part of the problem, not the solution.
From what I have seen over there ... that board is crawling with program worshippers.
Me thinks you need to remember that old adage about what happens when you lay down with dogs.
:wave:
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Your probably right about the dog thing, but you have to understand, its not like I walk over there and take what they have to say. I go fight and argue with them, its more like kicking the dog.
What I do is agure with a part of the problem, like you said, fornits is still my home.
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On 2005-07-30 20:42:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Christ almighty, fine, whatever, the next time I see you arguing on a hostile board then we can talk, but untill you go over there, get a long on, sign you damn posts, and be a man and put your face to what you believe, what you have to say does not matter.
Funny. That is exactly what program parents say. I was actually in a program discussed here, were you? Be a man? Dude, shut up and stop being so confrontational. Is Overlord a face? What makes you a man? I thought you were 17, so legally aren't you still a child? Just for you, I'll start signing my posts 'fuck off'.
And no you should ppost what you want, but remember your making my life harder as I go over there and argue for what we believe in. You dont have to give a flying fuck what they think, but its like shooting some one in the back as he works for you.
You do not represent me, and you don't work for me. Nobody asked you to represent them, did they? You have taken on a crusade you actually know very little about. While you seem to be debating both sides in your mind as a third party observer, some of us actually lived through this hell. You don't work for me, you don't speak for me, and you certainly do not represent my in any way-- and don't ever think you do. If something I choose to do on this board makes your life harder, tough shit buddy.
-FuckoFF
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On 2005-07-30 21:01:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Your probably right about the dog thing, but you have to understand, its not like I walk over there and take what they have to say. I go fight and argue with them, its more like kicking the dog.
What I do is agure with a part of the problem, like you said, fornits is still my home."
OL ... it's great you have a fire in your belly and want to make a difference.
Just keep it real ... and remember that ST is NOT
teen friendly ... they are teen helpers.
BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE, ya know?
And yeah, they are into censoring big time.
Can't say a program name on the ST Discussion forum because it's against the rules?
Gee, that's real helpful to parents, now isn't it?
Program XXX sucks but good luck trying to figure out which program XXX is.
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Yeah, they are really into censoring, I had to appeal directly to a admin a few times to get some posts put back. They have one moderator I really dont like over there. Then again I directly chalenged something she had to say so you know, piss off a moderator see what you get.
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FYI ... this is a classic example of censorship. Katfish posted a link to another website and the moderator deleted it because it doesn't FIT with keeping parents in the dark.
Damn, you gotta feel sorry for the kids of these program parents. Being in a program is bad enough but imagine getting out and the parent is still "programmed" to treat their kid like a defective human being. It's sick!
http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ ... p=1#000000 (http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000609;p=1#000000)
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and those stupid fucks bash fornits. at least this forum has the decency to let anyone post whatever they want. this forum is much more representative of the REAL industry and its effects. they are a moderated marketing tool. they exist to make money. fornits does not. who do you believe?? hmm..
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On 2005-07-30 21:44:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Yeah, they are really into censoring, I had to appeal directly to a admin a few times to get some posts put back. They have one moderator I really dont like over there. Then again I directly chalenged something she had to say so you know, piss off a moderator see what you get."
Saw your post about your friend Lauren. You were making a good point OL but of course, none of those parents want to hear the truth. They prefer to keep their stupid heads buried in the sand and pretend all is well in Teen Help Land.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
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That is understandable to seperate a man from his work. My problem with that is, at least for me, I've seen evil people use that technique to their advantage all too often.
Beat the shit out of a kid, then play all nice and pretend they 'didn't really mean it' or whatever. Too many people use this to their advantage to give someone the benefit of the doubt, IMO. At least program people.
If I didn't find abusive programs on his website, I wouldn't care.
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[This post has been edited to remove a link to a website that promotes anonymous posting and parent/ program bashing without accountability.]
Ah, program-speak, and a convenient way to excuse censorship of any criticism. And, well, using programspeak its gonna hook right into the damn program parents, and then some.
Hrn. Why not try some accountable criticism? I dunno, ISAC? Intelligent criticisms based on what medical professionals have said? Bringing up the safety aspect of not communicating with your child for months at a time?
Oh, wait, I forgot, theyd call that unaccountable, anonymous 'bashing' too. Republican n. A liberty despising, money worshiping, control freak. Democrat n. A liberty despising, social engineering, control freak.
-- Anonymous
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I have had several conversations with Lon that were interesting, if not exactly fruitful.
He does come across as a nice man - never rude or unpleasant in any way.
I do object to his continuing to advertise for programs that *I feel* he knows are doing harm. I do not accept his excuses for doing so - and he knows exactly how I feel about it - but he has never been rude or dismissive, like so many others.
And while his BBS is very heavily "moderated" - he has some past experience that has caused his to think it necessary.
I also object to the extremely heavy handed moderating (I've been banned twice) but it is his board to run as he sees fit.
Just as Fornits is Ginger's to run as she sees fit.
In his defense, I will say he is far more willing to post editorials by individuals explaining what they think, or have experienced about any program, if they are willing to be identified. Now that is the tricky part - b/c so many are afraid to have their name and contact info on the net - especially in connection with something as controversial as the teen business.
But - if anyone is willing to do that much - he will post it. He might tweak it a bit - but no so much the meaning is diluted.
I would say, as long as you are telling the truth, or clearly stating its your opinion, if that's what it is - you have nothing to fear from saying who you are. And while it can be worrisome having contact info up on the net - I can say I have mine up on several boards, and it has never yet caused me a problem. In my experience it has mostly been a good thing. I have had numerous very interesting conversations as a result.
SO - if you are so inclined - use the ST Forum as your able, and write Lon up a hard hitting editorial.
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Buzzkill is right, that would be something a knowledgable person would be well to do, but im a debater, and not a very good editorial righter, I tend to turn them into rants. You dont nessasaryly have to be on the boards either, just shoot it in email format, tell me about it and I will see what I can do to get it posted, alittle weight from a few diffrent directions goes a long way.
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I think Lon is as good and honest and decent a man as any of the Crusaders who fought for the various crowns or any of those brave frontiersmen who went west to exterminate the vermin and savages who used to inhabit these lands.
He thinks he's a good guy. Doesn't make it so.
"The Program" and two years will get you a vastly improved kid in *EXACTLY* the same way that "The Program" and four bucks will get you a cup of espresso at Starbucks.
Timoclea
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A Visit (sort of) to an Ed Consultant
I recently had occasion to go to Canada and Northern Idaho twice in the last couple of weeks. We drove a looping vacation through the Pacific Northwest and came back through the Idaho Panhandle, on a horse-buying trip. The filly we bought was in Moyie Springs, ID, just 2 miles south of the Canadian border. So, in the last 2 weeks, I have stayed overnight a couple of times in Bonners' Ferry, ID, home of Lon Woodbury's educational consulting business.
Bonners' Ferry is a lovely little town of 2500, plunked in a small valley of the Kootenai River, full of golden aspens and rutting deer this time of year. On our "pick-up" trip with the horse trailer, we were staying at the Kootenai Indian Casino, a fairly big place right on the river. We needed grain and hay for the trip home, and went into town to the grain mill. [Like a lot of small towns, there is the "strip mall" end of newer buildings going out of town, and there is the nearly-dead brick center of Old Town.] There, two 10-story-tall galvanized metal buildings are busy creating animal feed from local grain, puffing and grinding away at opposite sides of a small square in town. As we waited for our product, I spy..."Woodbury Reports" on a building near where we parked. I was astonished at the tiny metal-roofed very shabby blue Victorian house squatting under the shadow of the grain elevator, without landscaping and with junk visible in the yard. The best part of the place was the wooden sign you see in the strugglingteens.com site.
Now, there is no rule that an Internet business has to look legit to amount to anything; I was just extremely surprised to find this business, which seems to get the most respect of all ed consultants (probably due to its forum pages) appearing like a place that I would think twice about entering. I bet a good many "customers" with the bucks to send their kids off for a "fix" expect the decision-maker in their consultation process to be something more like "artisan goat cheese on a sesame water cracker" when it really looks more like "Cheez-Whiz squirted from a can onto a Ritz."
We were there the day of the Rocky Mountain Academy bomb scare. We knew kids were being shipped here and there (the armory and the fairgrounds), and it was the talk of the staff at the casino. Surprisingly, the locals really don't know much about the "schools" right outside of town...even the 3rd generation local young person serving our drinks at the bar. The RMA does "adopt" a stretch of highway, so they apparently do let them out for clean-up duty. Our server also said the school had a prom at the casino this year, but "the kids were really weird". The prom-goers were notably silent, not talking much at all...the girls danced with the girls, and the boys stood off to the side. This person's relative even works at the school in a fairly responsible position, yet little or none of the goings-on makes it out of the facility.
The consensus of the locals? We didn't meet one who approved of the school, even though it meant jobs in this small town. Mostly, the kids and the parents who sent them from Manhattan, Miami, and other rich enclaves (to experience the beautiful remote wilds, more than 45 minutes down the only highway to Sandpoint, the VERY-tony ski resort where one's parents can stay and refresh themselves while "visiting" their incarcerated children) are disdained. The best quote was from one young person: "They're just a bunch of rich kids whose parents send them off to be trained like a dog."
The educational consulting business is certified by a shingle given by this group of self-proclaimed and self-regulated non-pros. Oh, that and $100. This is a very Mormom community, Woodbury's purchasable book has the back cover sold to WWASPS or Teen Help, and he accepts any advertising WWASPS wants to send his way. He says he does not recommend their "schools". Yet a parent would have to be sort of blind to think the expertise of this person is of a caliber and neutrality to really do the best for their child. Oh well, maybe doing the best for their child is not at all about why they are searching for a private prison in the first place.
New Post>>>A note on the community sense in Northern Idaho: The area is heavily Mormon, redneck, and feels a lot out-of-touch with the current America. The beautiful woods that compose the drive from Bonner's Ferry (Struggling Teens' home) down to Coeur d'Alene are as primitive as they were when my dad was born there in 1919. There are tons of shanty "ranches". While we were there, the local paper ran several stories about "racial tensions" with a black-and-white couple whose house had been "torched" because of what the couple said was racial hatred. Turned out, the mixed-marriage folks really burned down their own house to collect the insurance and move away somewhere. The cops figured this out after being puzzled by why a brand-new Sears stainless steel refrigerator was out on the lawn, unscathed, in front of the totalled house. This stretch of woods also habored the recent registered sex offender who murdered a couple and 2 of their children, while taking their 8-yo daughter captive for 6 weeks of hell. Coeur d'Alene is a fancy lake/ski area, with a prominent sleezy component population. Bonner's Ferry is up the road, and one would think a parent's heart would drop when driving up to drop off children at the now-closed Rocky Mountain Academy.
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http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5174.shtml (http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5174.shtml)
How do you like me now???? :wave:
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About the same as I always did..
I think you are a piece of shit. You look like a woman, a dyke who had one too many surgeries. I think you should watch over your shoulder, if you send as many kids away as you to steal their souls... you never know what might happen. :wave:
(http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/images/lon.jpg)
OH yea LONNY, suck my fat cock baby.
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Lon butfucks this dude
(http://http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/SpringCreekDropout/lichfield.jpg)
Really.