Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => News Items => Topic started by: TheFACTS about DEANV on October 19, 2002, 08:06:00 PM

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: TheFACTS about DEANV on October 19, 2002, 08:06:00 PM

I found this site when doing a search on AARC. There is an incredible amount of false information about Dean Vause in the messages on this list serv. Who are the ones that have posted the absolute crap I have seen. I suggest the person(s) who think they know who Dean Vause is and what his career and academic path have been AT LEAST get their facts straight before they make comments. They might do a LITTLE work by checking out

1) what the UNION Institute really is.

2) search the UMI database of all published PhD and Masters dissertations to get your fats straight about what exactly his grad work was!

3) what exactly did happen for and to Dean VAuse when he went down to New Jersey. You have not a clue what that was about - why he went there, what happened and how AARC evolved in Calgary. Miller Newton has never been on the Vauses' Xmas card list. Maybe his lawyer's for awhile but not his.



These are a few comments right now. I'll be happy to fill you in on the facts for the 3 points above.



BTW, in case someone, again, alleges that Dean would waste his time reading what a couple unhappy clients had to say here - I don't think he is even aware this site exists but if he did .  . . well really I know it not like him to bother or lose sleep over something like this. Some of his staff may have found this site but I can just hear his reaction to them telling him about it - he is very good with the hilarious retorts about people that have it out for him.



I have known him since high school. He is one of the funniest, fun, ethical, genuine and hard-working people you could meet. He has always tried to make up for his *little guy* who was being bullied by soembody or some sort of social oppression. His passion for helping adolescents has driven his career. One reason is because, i think it is part of his nature but another is likely because of the exploitation he experienced at the hands of adults with power over him when he was in his teens. I have always been very honored to have him as one of my good friends, he is a definite asset in any group of friends. If anything, he is the funniest guy I know. No one with his sense of humour could ever take themselves too seriously. So if you think by some warped reason that he thinks he is some kind of god. YOU REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS MADE OF. He is driven by passion for helping kids and their families and if along the way he has not given the right attention to some angry self-centered person, I think they need to just get over it!!!! and find another more positive attitude towards their life.



It is a known fact that when someone sticks their neck out and applies themself to help others there are always people who don't do anything but put down the person that does.





I think I'll come back and fill in some facts here so it is a little balanced since I see there has been a father that wrote in and tried to stick up for AARC!!



Jem

PhD, Health Poliy Research

(PhD from a traditional university!!)



[ This Message was edited by: TheFACTS about DEANV on 2002-10-19 17:22 ]

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on October 21, 2002, 09:54:00 PM

When you post on this board or on any internet forum, we insist that you tell the truth for varius reasons. There are two AARC boards up and running right now, and there was one more before that. The reason why these boards are up and running, and why I have never had to go to court for hosting this board or for any of the posts I've made regarding AARC and Dean Vause, is because the posts have been truthful. If my posts were not truthful regarding Dean he could very easily sue me for "slander".

The very facts that you are accusing us of not having researched, I can't see how you could possibly have researched them yourself. I am familiar with TUI because I have spoken with them on the phone regarding Dean's education and was given a description of his Thesis and how it was graded. My opinions regarding the school as a whole is based on their website and catalog, and I've quoted their own words from those things.

I encourage anyone to search for Dean's psychology lisence, and when you come here to tell us that he has one, then please provide us with a phone number and address for where you've found such information. As a matter of fact, let me go to my address book and double check on who informed me that Dean is not licensed in Alberta and therefore not able to opperate as a psychologist there.

BRB.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on October 21, 2002, 10:07:00 PM

I have a letter from a Gail Leicht from the College of Alberta Psychologists confirming that he was not found in their registry and "cannot use the title psychologist". I've had contact with varius people in the College of Alberta Psychologists regarding Dean but unfortunately have not kept all of their names. I have also searched for a lisence under G.P's and Psychiatrists, and I have searched for those in Alberta, Saskatchewan, British Columbia, and New Jersey because those were the places I was aware of him having residence.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: TheFACTS about DEANV on October 23, 2002, 05:37:00 AM

Sorry velvet that doesn't cut it (in terms of an argument that you are telling the truth about him - the reason you have not been in court is because the person you are slandering could not be bothered. He is the only one who can initiate that sort of legal action. So have a little thought about that one and like I suggested - go do a Little work to get your facts straight BECAUSE you, very obviously, have not.

And your 2nd paragraph really is an out and out lie. No University whether Union or not, will talk to someone, who just happens to call up, about the specifics of some previous student's work there. It is like you calling up his GP and his/her office giving you the run down on what the diagnosis was on a bronchial cough he had and what antibiotics he was prescribed.

Regarding your last paragraph - see my response to 'Anonymous' under subject heading 'Who knows Dean variation' subheading 'I Do'.

Last point re: "The very facts that you are accusing us of not having researched, I can't see how you could possibly have researched them yourself." Uhhhh, I didn't research anything, I have know the guy since high school and because he is a close friend of mine, he knows what I have done over the years and I certainly know what he has done, experienced and a lot of personal things that friends share! You know - good friends, trust, understanding, acceptance - therefore you got the goods on them and they have the goods on you!!!! Besides, I have done a PhD, I have had similar experiences with people like Miller-Newton, so it is a pretty easy transfer of information between him and I. Plus, I was on the UMI website one night and happened to do a search on his Masters and PhD dissertations out of curiousity - I wanted to see how many pages his PhD was because I knew it was more than the usual number. So, i got a great laugh when I saw it was something like 1100+. That is the Dean I know - incredibly competent and hard working. Most doctoral dissertations are from 200 - 350 pages, but as I said in the post I just referred to  - his committee chair had to get him to stop because she said he had done enough work for 4 doctoral dissertations.

jem

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: TheFACTS about DEANV on October 23, 2002, 05:58:00 AM

In regard to your second post on this subject re: some letter from Gail somebody:

You know Velvet I don't think you understand even what being registered as a psychologist means and your obsession with that could likely be because you don't understand what doing a PhD is about esp. when it is exactly on the very thing someone is carrying on with in their career.

People can do a PhD in Philosphy on something like the Dialectic of Scrates, how does that relate to Chronic Diarrhea or do a PhDD on something in Political science and work in Health Policy because they have a certain perspective that is different than others that have studied in those areas and it adds another dimension to some work they are doing with health policy researchers. It is usually, but not always in the basic sciences where someone will do a PhD on something like examining the phosolipids in the subcutaneous membrane of frog lips and continue there entire career on that and just that. Even in pyschology, someone can do a PhD or Masters on Anger and Attention Deficit Disorder in children from the ages 6-10. But the rest of their career is being the resident psychologist for a huge Forestry Company. In Dean's case he did a PhD on the area he worked in and continues to work in - substance abuse treatment for adolescents (not even substance abuse treatment for adolescents and adults and pigmies from the pacific island of samoa, rathert JUST treatment for adolescents). Unfortunately, for you ?? I think, your obsession with his registration with some professional association is misguided i.e. your criteria for measuring Dean's competence in his area is, for lack of a better word - irrational.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on October 23, 2002, 05:05:00 PM

I'm sorry to argue with you that you do or do not know someone, but what you are doing is saying that I need to do my research even though you refuse to do any, and then argueing that I must have lied about doing my research, even though you refuse to check up on it! Again, I encourage you to go ahead and call TUI and ask who they give their information too. Because I was a patient of Dean's I was allowed that information.

I've always acknowledged that Dean does have a PH.D, and stated what he did in order to gain it. However when I was under Dean's care he claimed to be a psychologist, and he is not allowed to call himself a psychologist. He is allowed to say that he has a Ph.D. under educational psychology. I discredit the work that he put into it because I know people who helped write those many pages, which became the AARC workbooks, and feel that when I am under a doctors care I am in better care when the doctor completed their schoolwork themselves.

It is clearly not an "obsession" about someones educational history when you feel that you've been mistreated by a proffesional. It's no different than seeing a G.P. who turns out to have only recieved their doctorate in homeopathic.

Like we've stated on this board before, if you feel that you know him so well and you are eager to stand up for him, what harm would it possibly do you to make a few five minute phone calls?

Regarding the slander, no time for this  board thing, Dean has come to these boards and posted and viewed the site over three times a day, simple as that. Of course it would be of his interest to sue me if I was slandering him because it would be bad for business, and because if I was slandering him here in print for the whole world to see it would be a quick and easy case.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Antigen on October 23, 2002, 06:39:00 PM

...how Velvet came about the decision to move the AARC forum over to Fornits to begin with. Remember, Dean? When you or one of your cult members fraudulently claimed copyright on the acronym, "AARC", causing CoolBoard to shut down the forum?

What's the first and most impotent rule, Deany Weenie?

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: TheFACTS about DEANV on October 24, 2002, 04:55:00 PM

Good luck girls you are going to go far . . .  to where is the question!!!!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2002, 07:01:00 PM

I agree with the above positive characterization of Dean. I was in treatment when he did he did his Phd. In fact I know the accredited psychologist who veted it very well. I watched Dean work on that thesis day and night, run 3 or more raps a day for 7 days a week. I met all of the phds who were on his clinical committee, acclaimed academics like Dr. Lewis Andrews. Dean worked extremely hard to get where he is and continues to do so. But then again character assassinataion by the anonymous is always the burden of the successful. Who am I? I am an AARC graduate, 10 years sober, a father, husband, tax payer, successful business man and active AA member. God Bless.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on October 28, 2002, 09:32:00 PM

Then you also know the other kids who spent a lot of time working on those workbooks/thesis. Next time you go to your G.P. or any other doctor ask them how they feel about that way of obtaining a doctorate.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Antigen on November 01, 2002, 01:39:00 PM

All the way down in the Mid Mon Valley, a chorus of voices chanting "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!" I wonder if they actually plug their ears while they do that?

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2002, 08:09:00 AM

I was in KIDS of Bergen County and was there when Dean came to NJ for his "training" from Newton.  I also know that Dean apparently refused to follow Newton's rules, yet a few years after the program (AARC) opened up, I went to an open meeting, anonymously!  Surprise, the open meeting format, the 'love you's', the parent mic 'lectures' were all the same as KIDS.  
A close friend of mine that went on staff at AARC (a former KIDS client)went to Dean for help after he'd relapsed.  Dean turned him away saying that this guy had let him down too many times.  Funny how he was always there when Dean needed him???  Shortly after that he killed himself.  Go figure, where was the unconditional love then?  Dean had the guts to stand up at his funeral and talk about how great this guy was.  To stab someone in the back and then speak on their behalf at their funeral is cruel and sickening.  KIDS was/is all about control and AARC is the same way.  AARC may be more passive about their control tactics, but regardless it is still just as damaging.  Just ask Dean about Brian Neil (RIP).  Maybe his intentions were "good" in the beginning, but it is obvious that he is becoming more and more like Newton everyday.  Facts are I don't know Dean's side of the story, but when person after person comes out of AARC with similar stories as to what happened at KIDS it can only make you wonder what happens behind those locked doors.  
On a positive note, I hear that AADAC (a reputable drug addiction centre) is trying to get on the board of AARC, so that they can insist on regulating the treatment provided to teens.  AADAC does do counselling for people that were in AARC and KIDS, they help to de-program people and help with the post-traumatic stress issues that people in these programs experience after leaving these treatment centres.  Does it really matter what education someone has?  If they abuse it, the damage is done!
Bye

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2002, 08:51:00 AM

Ps) Wanted to say one more thing... After reading some of the other posts on the BBS.  I know that BN broke into AARC and was caught.  We were living together at the time and when he didn't come home for a few days I figured he was in jail.  However, I want to make it clear that it seemed to me that BN did these things to get back at Dean.  He never did anything to him until Dean betrayed him.  I know that doesn't justify his behaviours, but it does give some insight to where BN's head was at during this time.  
Bye

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on November 04, 2002, 10:18:00 PM

Thanks for posting here. It's interesting the things that you said about AADAC. I'm also glad that you posted about Brian (as I am glad that anyone who was close with him when he passed over has posted here). What you said about the scenario is exactly what I thought happened. I guess the most upsetting part is that you probably know more than one person who has gone through these programs who have taken their own lives, and all of us are probably going to know plenty more.

Thought it's years later and I don't believe I've ever met you - Sorry for your loss.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on November 06, 2002, 01:48:00 PM

I think you need to check your facts. Dean bent over backwards for Brian. Brian worked for him in a position of authority and trust for over 2 years. Dean promoted him and gave him raises. He recommended Brian for the job in Nanaimo, which Brian wanted. I visited Brian out there and he was holding on, but not going to meetings. Dean put his reputation with the BC government on the line to get Brian that job. How Brian handled it was his issue. When Brian was let go, he came back to Calgary, and I know Dean tried to help him out, he just could not give him a job. Brian got an AA and AARC acquaintance to loan him the money to move his stuff and he never paid him back. He started using at some point, but still many people involved with AARC tried to reach out to him, including former KIDS clients. When he broke in, this was a terrible blow to Dean and to the rest of us who loved him. I knew Brian from my first day at AARC. He was my peer for most of treatment. He saved my ass several times when I was ready to quit or use. We stayed close after my graduation and worked on staff together. He rarely talked about his using past (except in group)and never about present day problems. I loved Brian and was devestated when he killed himself. I know Dean was too. I saw his reaction in several places. Al-Anon teaches about detaching with love. Hard to do, but those of us who were sober could not do much for Brian when he started making bad choices. I always thought there must be something from his past, either when using or from KIDS that he kept secret, was just too painful to talk about. I'm sorry he couldn't reach out. But his death is nobody's responsibility but his own.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on November 06, 2002, 08:07:00 PM

I completely disagree with the "detachment" theory. I know that many people in AA and Al-Anon abandon someone as soon as they seem a little messed up and justify their means by saying that they had to "let them go" so that they could "focus on themselves" but that's not friendship. I think it's self centered and cowardly. Detachment to me means that you stop feeling pain for someone, and that you don't let their troubles take you with them, not that you turn them away. In the twelve steps, and in AARC, you repeatedly recieve messages that everyone is going to be there for everyone unconditionally, and that these are the deepest friendships you can ever have. I'm sure that's why Brian returned to AARC for support, and I'm sure that's why he took it so hard when he made a mistake and nobody was there for him anymore. Can you see it from this perspective? I ask because I know it's not just Brian, but plenty of other graduates who sway away from the AARC clique then change their mind and decide to come back, and nobody is happy to see them again. I know one graduate who relapsed shortly after graduation, was honest about it, but wanted to maintain their friendship with the other grads in the worst way. Nobody would have anything to do with that person anymore just because they'd relapsed. That person hadn't changed a bit, just changed one behavior, isn't that when you are supposed to be there for them the most???

I don't doubt that the AARC staff who had once been close with Brian grieved his passing. I also don't assume that AARC is the sole reason why he passed. But I do think that his experience with Kids and AARC together probably contributed largely, and that being turned away from this group he put so much love into may have broken the last straw.

As for "research" the people posting as friends of Brian were able to know him the best shortly before he left, but Brian is the only person who could tell us why he chose to do it.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2002, 05:52:00 PM

your characterization of "detachment" couldn't be more wrong. One does not stop loving a person who is in the grips of addiction and harmong those around them. It simply means not giving them the means or opportunity to hurt other. If I give an active drug user money, where will it be spent? I had to detach from an extremely toxic alcoholic who did nothing but put me through hell for years. It was the hardest thing I ever did, but I would not expose the rest of my family to this man who happened to be my father! I never stopped loving him, and cared deeply about him, but I needed to detach from him or get caught up in an endless go-round of pain. And speaking directly of AARC, I know of many who after relapse have been welcomed back with open arms, some who ended up on staff. Brian worked hard to finally be told no more.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on November 08, 2002, 06:50:00 PM

See, there are those who beleive that love is a feeling, and those who beleive that it is an action, and I believe that it's an action. When you stop treating someone with love, you stop loving them. That's certainly how it feels to the person on the recieving end.

There are obviously situations where you have to stop giving love to someone whether you like it or not, alcoholoism or no alcoholism. But I'm talking about situations where people are quick to cut people out just because they don't like their behavior. For instance if someone is "toxic" because they are physically or mentally abusive, obviously that person needs to be shut out. But if they are "toxic" just because you don't think that they are as spiritual as you are, or as reliable, or whatever it is that person is doing, then I believe there comes a time when we all have to learn that if we want to love that person, then we continue to give love to that person and hope that it helps them to grow out of their troubles. If we don't do that, then we must think that we are All Knowing, and I've yet to meet someone like that.

If you are an addict/alcoholic and you relapse you are probably aslo acting on a lot of behaviors that will push people away. But does that mean that your 12 step friends should shut you out? A lot of people in AA/NA have an "every man for himself" attitude, which shows that their mental stability or sobriety is pretty weak if they can't help someone else through the trenches step by step. How many people do you know in AARC who will stay friends with another graduate when that graduate is using? Honestly? I know none. So that friendship was never really strong. I made friends once with a severely addicted heroine junkie. I would never in a million years call her "toxic" just because of one addiction. Despite her addiction her spirit shone through. She was lost in one way, just like all of us get lost in some way. Don't you have overweight staff members? Does that mean that they are "toxic" and should be fired because of their food addiction? Should you "detach" from them so that they don't make you fat too?

I also think that with kids or teens the "tough Love" bit is a huge mistake. A few years back I read a study (can't remember who it was by) saying that addicts who came from families who continued to support them and allow them in their home had a better success rate of recovering, and were less likely to go as far down because of it. I say I think it's a worse idea for kids, because if you kick a fifteen year old out of the house and stop giving them cash, where are they going to go? They're going to do something a lot worse than if they'd just kept spending their allowance and coming home in the middle of the night. It's like encouraging your child to become a theif, dealer, or prostitute.

This has gotten a bit off topic...But it's just my two cents on living with addicts and being a better friend in general.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Hamiltonf on November 09, 2002, 12:34:00 AM

So...
Velvet,  what do you know of "harm reduction"? And what can you, or others on this site tell us about what Dean Vause's reaction would be to people like "dancesafe" or "ravesafe" who say that they neither condone nor condemn the use of drugs but that people who are fully and truthfully informed about drugs will make wiser choices on not only what to use, but also how to use?  In other words they will take care of themselves.
For example..  Is there a "safe" way to use ecstacy?  meth?   cocaine?  
What is the lethality of these substances?
What is the addictive potential of them?
What does AARC say about them?

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2002, 04:51:00 AM

I don't totally have my mind made up about all of the area's of Harm Reduction. It's a wide word. When I was in AARC, Dean Vause made a lot of comments about Harm Reduction. He usually used it reffering to AADAC and Woods, saying that they used harm reduction by asking clients to cut down on drugs or alcohol slightly every week, like cutting down on smoking. That's what I thought Harm Reduction meant. He made harm reduction out to be a joke, and a waste of money. It seems to me that AARC people mostly believe that it's their way or the highway.

Having now listened to both (for example) people living on Vancouver East Side, and recovered addicts or former homeless, I've developed some ideas on harm reduction, but am undecided on many...Such as legalization. But I can say this;

I completely support Needle Exchange programs, the idea of opening "shooting gallery's", and providing healthcare for needle users such as teaching them how to properly inject. Watch your rediculously expensive neighborhood go to hell because of junkies and you'll feel the same way too.

Every former prostitute I know has said that they beniffited greatly from the vans which handed out coffee, condoms, and provided HIV testing. Both for the services and the understanding support.

Ask anyone who has ever lived on the streets and they will tell you that if they could have any help they would have asked for more or better safe/transitional housing. I used to think that it's not enough, but now I've changed my mind completely. How can you tell people who have gone through it that they are wrong? I don't believe in forcing people to change, especially when it does not include a justice system to protect people from being falsely imprisoned.

I think that Dance Safe does only good and no harm. The users already have the drugs anyways. I don't think that there are 100% "safe" ways to use drugs like the ones you've listed, but there are "safer" ways. But they don't claim to be saving everyone's lives, just lowering bad incidents by letting the kids know when there is more in their drugs than what they think.

I personally think that if you want to put an end to drugs, or lessen the problem, then you have to crack down on the major distributors instead of pouring money into rehabilitating every addict. But I doubt that Canada will do that in my lifetime, because of the power those distributors have. In the meantime all that we can do is the best prevention we know how (which is another big word, and not at all connected to things like DARE anymore) and care for the problem we've already created.

Getting around to reading all of your feelings on this issue...

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Hamiltonf on November 09, 2002, 08:40:00 AM

I like most of your comments.  And what you say about DV is what I expected.  I suppose that what harm reduction proponents recognize is that people will experiment with drugs no matter what. It's a realistic, pragmatic approach at the street level.  
But you talk about "cracking down" on the major suppliers.  Well, isn't that what the DEA have been trying for the last 30 years with, for example, Plan Colombia?  been there, done that, it doesn't work.
It seems to me that the war on drugs does more harm than the drugs themselves, and "crack-downs" merely exacerbate the situation.
A psychologist friend of mine suggested that the war on drugs is really a turf war between the hell's angels and the pharmaceutical companies.  
My question is, where does AARC fit into the grand scheme of things?

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2002, 05:58:00 PM

First of all I don't know why my last post appeared as anonymous...that was me.

Well yeah the "turf war" is why I say it will never happen. 40% of Canada's police is infotrated by the Hells Angels (or so Newsworld claims). That's probably why over 60 Lower East Side girls were allowed to go missing, and a millionaire serial killer (who owns a biker bar) gets Legal Aid. Trying to break down organized crime would take a lot of lives, and cost a lot of money. I'm not saying that it is the "right" way to solve the drug problem, just the only way that I can imagine Canada greatly reducing the amount of illegal drugs.

I am more concerned about the War on Drug Users, which includes the "72 hour" bill, and places like AARC. The legislation post is a prime example of where AARC stands in all of this. Their fundraising technique is using a young and attractive youth from a normal looking family (often middle to upper class)who has either been arrested for committing a crime (such as car theft) or is a former prostitute. Often these youth had only used drugs for a year or two tops, but their story morphs into a dramatic Downword Spiral after school special. The youth recites how they started out small with pot or alcohol, then the depths of drug addiction takes them by the hand and forces them to become a criminal in order to pay for their habbit. Then "by the grace of god" they are forced into AARC where they learn through "tough love" that they were hopeless addicts, will be for the rest of their lives, and now that they have learned this they have returned to highschool, love their parents, and are the ideal teen. The prostitutes story goes the same way, which is interesting because none of the prostitutes I knew in AARC actually ever worked to support a drug habbit. They all had been recruited by a pimp who provided them with drugs, which they used to deal with the pain of hooking to support their pimp.

Dean is very good at fundraising because he is persistant in sticking to what he believes in and sharing the exact same message over, and over, and over again through the kids. The message is that these suburban kids have a disease, and if you don't treat the disease then they will grow up to be the next drug suppliers and criminals, therefore if you put these kids through AARC while they are young, you are preventing crime and ending the wide drug spread too. AARC's theory usally implies that things such as methadone clinics are a waste of money, because everyone can and must become 100% rehabilitated in order to survive, and that if everyone just did as AARC did then the world would know that. To back that up they claim a %75 - %90 success rate (it's ever changing!) which nobody knows where they gather it from considering they don't ask their graduates whether or not they are still sober.

Did I ramble or did I answer the question?!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Hamiltonf on November 10, 2002, 04:14:00 PM

No, I don't think you rambled on.  And I can understand you being more concerned about the war on drug users than the war on producers.
But it seems to me that you have only gone half-way in your reasoning.  As you know, the US  in its war against everything equates drug users with sponsoring terrorism.  That's because the high price of drugs caused by prohibition moves marketing into the hands of organised crime, because the profits are so tempting. The other side of that picture is that if the drugs were legal they could be prescribed, you could obtain them from licensed outlets, the profits would not be going to criminals.    
Mo Mowlam, who was the UK drug czar came out in favour of legalising drugs as a means of countering organised crime.  
What has happened in Portugal (virtual legalization) demonstrates that the sky will not fall, children will not become overnight heroin addicts.  While there may be some minor increase in narco tourism, that would not be a problem if the policy were to be adopted world-wide.  
The United Nations drug control authority is rife with corruption.  If newsweek says our police forces have been corrupted on this issue, how much more has that happened in the US.  eg, at least 2 Federal Judges have declared the LAPD to be a racketeering organisation -- & the drug war is central to that.  And hence we come back to AARC -- borne out of Straight, Inc and the Sembler family, with links going back to Nancy Reagan, the Bushes and the Fundamentalist Christian   right (I have a "christian" relative on the  Edmonton Police Force who worked on narcotics and once opined that the death penalty would be too good for traffickers of marijuana -- you can imagine the interesting discussions we can get into).
What I am trying to tell you is that there are more people who can have a positive influence  in positions of influence than you probably realise.
For example a former prosecutor in Grande Prairie who stated to the press that Legalization of marijuana would be a more logical than mere decriminalization.  This point of view has recently been expressed in the Montreal Gazette.  Do I ramble, or is this just a rant?
AsI said before, I really would like to talk to you, but I can see how you would need to check me out

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2002, 07:58:00 PM

What I said about Brian, back on the 2nd of Nov. was simply what I saw Brian go through.  Of course both Dean and Brian are going to have different 'sides' of the same story.  Brian told me that he went to Dean and asked for help.  Brian's words: "The only time I've ever maintained sobriety was when I have been helping people."  "Can I come back to AARC in some capacity, so I can start helping people and in turn get out of this 'hole' I'm in?"  Dean's words (via Brian) No, you've let me down, one too many times.  I'm sorry, but I can't do it.  
For Brian, this was a major blow.  I am NOT saying that Dean is the devil, or that he is responsible for Brian's death, that would be absurd!  But if you knew the rest of the story you might be able to see why Brian went to Dean for help.  You see, in the KIDS program and probably AARC too, they teach:  "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it... but you sure can make them thirsty for it."  You can make their lives so damn misreable that they have no choice but to take what they are being fed.  That saying, is just one way that KIDS (and AARC) justifies their modalities of treatment.  We know from the 12 steps that you can't force someone into sobriety.  We also know that when an addict asks for help to get sober again that we are (or should) be there for them (the 12th step) helping others???  I don't think it's suddenly changed over the last 14 years.  Brian was at his end, when he went to Dean for help.  After that, his brother and his wife had kicked him out of where he was living, (which is why he was at that apartment building where he hung himself).  Oddly enough, Brian's sister in law was also in Al-anon.  
Granted Brian was messed up.  He hurt a lot of people while he was active in his addiction.  Brian reached out for help to someone that he once relied on and who knew him when he was sober.  That person turned his back on Brian, why?  I don't know, probably to protect his precious reputation...  
Brian was a good person, not perfect, but who is?  When he was using, he screwed over a lot of people. I was one of those people!  Didn't we learn that that was their disease? Not the person?  I know whoever told me to "check my facts"  is just trying to protect Dean, but the facts are, that Brian did go to Dean for help, and Dean did turn him away.  There is no excuse for that.  Except, that Dean doesn't follow what he preaches.  (Hmmm, sounds like Newton too).  No one is at fault for Brian's death, this isn't a 'fault' issue.  I sure as hell hope that if I EVER need help someday that the people I have in my life won't give up on me.  I think at the end of Brian's life there were only 2 maybe 3 of us that he felt could turn too.  He chose not to turn to us.  Do you think that I haven't questioned myself about Brian's death?  If only I had picked up on the signs that I now know, all too well, if only they had kept him in the hospital longer after he ingested a bunch of pills in bed one night, while he thought I was sleeping.  I love Brian deeply, and his person (not his addiction) is what I try to remember.  If Dean had that in mind and practiced what he preached, maybe Brian would have remained sober this time.  I don't know, because that didn't happen, did it?  Instead Dean got up at his funeral and spoke like that were the best of friends.  I was sitting on the front row, and couldn't for the life of me make eye contact with Dean or with Peter.  DO you really think that Brian would have wanted Dean and Pete to speak on his behalf?  Absolutley not!  
I am sorry to go on and on about this but, when Brian worked for Dean, he WAS sober, and when he was in trouble, Dean couldn't be bothered to help him out.  Enough said!
Bye!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on November 10, 2002, 08:18:00 PM

You're right, I do only have my mind halfway made up on this. Like I said initially, especially around the idea of legalization, I'm not sure what to think. I think I'd have an easier time being confident with a decision on this if I'd actually been to a country where drugs are legal and controlled, instead of just reading about it.

Velvet.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Hamiltonf on November 10, 2002, 09:58:00 PM

Well that's kind of the same as saying "I'm not sure what I think about using heroin until I've tried it", isn't it?  I think the problem is that one would almost have to have a graduate degree in epistemology to sort out the myths and propaganda from valid facts, logic and rationality when dealing with what you get through the established media.
 I recently visited an habitual criminal who believes that marijuana should be available for medical purposes.  However, he didn't agree with legalization either.  In fact, he thought prohibition was a good thing and, as a consequence of what he'd been told at Adaac, he felt that alcohol should once more be prohibited because of all the harm it does.  When I pointed out that the vast majority of people who might drink recreationally do not become alcoholics, and that rates are no higher in countries like France and Italy, hr found it hard to comprehend.  
Despite what you have said, I suspect that the indoctrination you have received stands in the way of the sort of rational approach that  would allow for the informed use of drugs.  If that were to happen, I would argue there would be far less tragedy arising from the abuse of drugs.  

By the way, you mention the 72 hr. legislation.  Have you studied the impact of this/talked to any "survivors"?  If so, I would certainly be interested in the outcomesfrom their perspective, since all I've been getting is from the perspective of the "authorities"
I remember a criminologist who was very strong on developing "self-report" analyses  which came up with very different conclusions than others -- but that was back in the seventies.

I'm appalled at several things in our education system, police in classrooms, DARE, teachers who are afraid to teach critical thinking.  things like "bowling classes",  sometimes so-called "life skills". , etc.
There I go ranting again.  
Actually, I'm still very interested in getting together a sytematic critique of AARC.
When are you going to contact me?

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on November 11, 2002, 02:38:00 AM

I think the "indoctorine" made my mind up for me for a long time, but that it's only influencing me one way now. Having made statements inspired by AARC in the past, I now regret them, and so I am slower to make a "confident" decision because I've proven that I've certainly been wrong before. The reason I would like to see a community living this way is because what changed my mind about the Rehab way (to note, I never actually believed that AARC was good, but supported the idea of intensive rehabilitation to make people sober)was by going out and meeting people who were perfectly healthy and had used entirely different resources.

No, I haven't met anyone who has been affected by the 72 hour legislation. I'm sure that many of us never will because - as Alexia Parks would say - those kids are "dissapeared". But I thought we had a justice system for a reason, don't we? Not in the 72 hour law. If your parents and a social worker or police officer think that you deserve to be locked up, then that's all it takes I guess. Can you imagine if kids could have their parents taken away for 72 hours just because they claim their parents are behaving irrationally?

Check your private messages!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2002, 12:34:00 AM

:wave:

Hey, your are just another sick puppy. You have no clue what actually went on between BRIAN and Dean and what Dean went through over that . . .
"La, La, La . . . bunch of sick little losers here with nothing else to do

 :cry2:  <-  the members of this list

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2002, 12:42:00 AM

Dear Velvet, is that a statement about how soft your brain tissure is?

"detachment theory"  

And what have you done with your life?? Have you ever gone to school past grade 6 or 7 or what ever it is that you flunked out at? Don't come back and tell me that you made it to grade 12 and are therefore you are at the leading edge of knowledge in the field of addictions. Incidentally, you couldn't cut a 'recovery program' because you did not have enough synapses connected to understand very simple things like what 'detachment' really is all about.

ANonymous #221 and counting

Go do something with your life and then come back and tell us how smart you are, dear. Take antigen along, she has the same capacity to understand (NOT) simple concepts.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2002, 12:52:00 AM

The no-minds on this list go on and on about how F.D.Vause thinks and acts like he is God, and he needs to find out he is just some idiot with a PhD and then because they can't maintain a train of thought for any length of time before they contradict themselves, . . . . and then they they BLOW it again -  if Dean had the power to 'MAKE' Brian kill himself, well then, duh, HE MUST BE GOD!!!!

Brian killed himself because he wanted to die not because Dean Vause hurt his feelings or did anything for that matter. He could have gone anywhere, any NA meetin, AA meeting to do what they do there - ah, duh - help one another. Only juveniles would blame someone else when some guy hangs himself. NOW if Dr. Vause put the rope around his neck and kicked the stoll, you morons might have a case. But I am sure you can't even understand that either. There are LOTS of people in the world that have been torture beyond belief, abuse for years by one culprit and probably 95% don't kill themselves, they survive and become better people just to spite the abusers, etc. (can't see that among people on this list like velvet or antigen or AARCgrad). The ones that kill themselves certainly would not because Dean had to protect the current clients at AARC when Brian came back form BC so screwed up. Thought you wanted Dean to run his place better than he is - can't yuou put it together that Brian was a hazard to other newly recovering addicts, esp. after he killer himslef!!!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2002, 01:40:00 AM

Hey Velvet, what kind of education do you have, beside solid grounding in grade school? Do you have any credentials to your name at all? From a respected bbble gum machine even??

 ::bwahaha2::

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2002, 03:39:00 AM

Are you educated or not?!?!?!?  You sure have plenty to say about a number of different topics.  Just wondering if I can give you any credit or none at all.  Uneducated people with the power of the Internet at their hands scare me... they have the ability to fill a lot of heads full of a lot of BS.  Are you one of these people?  ANSWER THE QUESTION... DO YOU HAVE AN EDUCATION IN ANY OF THE GARBAGE YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT ON THIS SITE?!?!?!?

SLJ

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet2000 on December 04, 2002, 04:53:00 PM

Yeah Brian would be a hazard if he came back to work at aarc after he killed himself LOL!!!!

On the other hand, maybe he'd bring some light with him.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2002, 08:11:00 PM

On 2002-12-03 22:40:00, Anonymous blowhard wrote: Don't lie, tell us why you quys are such knowledgable people that the world should pay any attention to your little bitch-sites.

People who undergo any kind of invasive treatment tend to become fairly well versed in the treatment, the condition for which they're being treated and the professional standards by which they're treated. It's just an aspect of human nature to be especially curious about things with which you have personal, firsthand experience. People who suffer harm as a result of quack treatment tend to become better informed about similar incidents than most professionals. That's just survival.

Your program is based on Synanon which, in turn, was based on the methods used to break down American POWs in Korean internment camps. AARC is a cult. All the flowery newage (rhymes with sewage) lingo and correspondence school credentials based on plagerized work will not change that.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2002, 08:33:00 PM

"Dean had the power to 'MAKE' Brian kill himself, well then, duh, HE MUST BE GOD!!!!"

Actually, there was a case in Florida where a mother was convicted of murder after her daughter's suicide. The mother had subjected the daughter, age 13, to unbearable shame and degradation by forcing her to work in a strip joine. When the kid wanted to quit, the mother would tell her how worthless she was, how her father didn't want her anymore and how no one would want an ungreatful, messed up child like her and that she didn't want her either unless the kid would do as mother told her.

Any of this sound familiar to anyone???

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2002, 10:01:00 PM

Okay, that was a bad comparison... in fact it was brutal.  First of all, Dr. vause wasn't Brian's father, and second he wasn't making Brian strip!!  He simply wouldn't give him a job because Brian was using.  I met Brian and I liked him, but get real all of you... he was screwed addict who obviously hated himself and the world he was living.  Think about it guys, suicide goes against every natural instinct of man and woman... only severe sickness and insanity can bring a person to the brink of taking their own lives.  I'VE HAD ENOUGH... IT IS NO ONES FAULT THAT BRIAN OFFED HIMSELF EXCEPT HIS AND HIS ADDICTION, THAT IS IT!  You guys are seriously going too far.  I've enjoyed this little debate or argument about AARC, but you crossed the line by allowing that last submission to be posted.  I am completely sickened by you now.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2002, 05:33:00 AM

I wrote the two long posts about Brian, and NOT ONCE have I said that Dean was ever responsible for Brian's death...  In fact, I said it would be absurd to place that on Dean...  So it comes down to this:  Either you can't read, or you're so damn stuck in your little rant about how good Vause is, that you can't see the forest through the trees.  
Grow up, for your own sake.

This post is only directed for the individual who insists on making an ass of him/her self.  Go to a site that supports these programs if this is what you want to talk about, we are unified in our purpose here. You are really nothing more then an irritation.  No one is loosing any sleep over your pathetic little rants.  So be done with it, I know I'm done with you!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2002, 01:12:00 PM

On 2002-12-04 19:01:00, Anonymous wrote: " First of all, Dr. vause wasn't Brian's father, and second he wasn't making Brian strip!!

No, Dean was Brian's cult leader. Brian seemed to believe that Dean and Group were his "only hope for survival". You tellin' me that AARC doesn't do strip searches? Coerce confessions? Pressure members to divulge their deepest, darkest and most shameful secrets in Group confrontation? They no longer beat into members' heads that they'll be deadinsaneorinjail without the Program?

On 2002-12-04 19:01:00, Anonymous wrote:He simply wouldn't give him a job because Brian was using.

Oh, I must be missing something. See, I understood that Brian and Dean Vause had a significant history together before the time that Brian asked for that job. Now you're telling me that's not so? Their only interaction was that Brian asked for a job and Dean turned him down?

On 2002-12-04 19:01:00, Anonymous wrote:I met Brian and I liked him, but get real all of you... he was screwed addict who obviously hated himself and the world he was living.  Think about it guys, suicide goes against every natural instinct of man and woman... only severe sickness and insanity can bring a person to the brink of taking their own lives.  I'VE HAD ENOUGH... IT IS NO ONES FAULT THAT BRIAN OFFED HIMSELF EXCEPT HIS AND HIS ADDICTION, THAT IS IT!  You guys are seriously going too far.  I've enjoyed this little debate or argument about AARC, but you crossed the line by allowing that last submission to be posted.  I am completely sickened by you now.  "

Funny, but it seems that suicide, depression, paranoia and PTSD are unusually prevalent among people who've been subjected to Synanon based "treatment". I know, I know. It's the drugs, right? Drugs are driving all these people to desperate measures, right? Compare to the rate of suicide at any high school, where roughly half of the student body have used illicit drugs. If it were the drug use, then one would expect no more than half the rate of suicides, right? But the actual rate is more like .01% in the general polulation.

Something about this just doesn't add up.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2002, 03:51:00 PM

I love it that i am finally irritating you guys... and no I won't go anywhere and leave you guys to continue to write your half truths and slander.  If you are going to have asight like this be prepared for some people disagree with you!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2002, 04:07:00 PM

Once again you are taking facts and twisting them to somehow relate to these topics.  I think we all know that of the percentage of high school kids who have tried "illicit" drugs, only a very small amount actually continue to use them heavily.  Amoung these teens that do continue to use, drugs account for a significant number of deaths and accidents.  I agree that suicide is a fairly rare thing this in this world, which brings me back to my original point about Brian, he was screwed up and completely insane when he offed himself... it goes against every natural instinct.

You said that by no way are you blaming Dr. V. or AARC for Brian's death, but you continue to point out what Dr. V. and AARC did wrong to Brian before his suicide.  So if you are not blaming them, just exactly what are you saying?  Please don't give me some lame answer about how they are "partly" responsible for Brian's death.  If you think it is Dr. V.'s or AARC's fault just say so, but please quit hinting at it.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2002, 05:27:00 PM

On 2002-12-06 13:07:00, Some Anonymous Looser wrote: "I'VE HAD ENOUGH... IT IS NO ONES FAULT THAT BRIAN OFFED HIMSELF EXCEPT HIS AND HIS ADDICTION, THAT IS IT! "

So, I follow you around for a few years and tell you that you are a looser, and that you will never succeed at anything. That you are doomed to die a horrible death, and that you are a looser, yes, you are a looser. Did I mention the fact that you are a looser? (Maybe I should just lock you into a facility for 12-24 months, with no contact with the outside world or anyone that would negate my statement that you are a looser, and then give you the full treatment!!)

Soon you begin to believe that I am telling you the truth, and you begin to feel ever more like a looser, and that your life sucks. And in time you are contemplation, then actually committing suicide. (oddly enough, some people even turn to drugs, to alleviate the pain of ther life's torture, instead of committing suicide, but this does not always help and the finally in a spiral commit the act)

I suppose, you would say I would not be responsible for that in any part. Even though, I drill into your head that, you are a looser. Made you believe that you are a looser. And indeed you are a looser. Did I mention that you are a looser?

The psyche can be a delicate thing. Outside influences determine how we think and feel about our selves, in part everything in Brians life contributed to his demise. So the only question that would remain here is how much of this was caused by Dean?

(Did I mention that you were a looser?)

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Antigen on December 06, 2002, 05:39:00 PM

You're conversing with two or more seperate and distinct individuals. Velvet never blamed Dr. Vause for Brian's death. In leteral, strictly technical terms, Dr. Vause didn't kill Brian. Brian did. That's why the term is suicide, not homicide.

However, if "Dr." Vause is going to hold himself up as a treatment expert and professional, then he ought to be held to the same standards as any real medical professional, don'chya think?

Remember thalidomide? Once upon a time, doctors used to prescribe it to pregnant women to combat symptoms associated with morning sickness. It seemed to work with few serious side effects. So this was considered good medical practice. Soon, it was discovered that thalidomide caused horrible birth defects. Good doctors the world over quit prescribing it or patted themselves on the back for waiting for the other shoe to drop and having not tried it on their patients to begin with.

In other words, real medical professionals take a serious and dedicated interest in the actual effects of their treatments on their patients. When a treatment is deemed to be more harmful than helpful, real doctors quit doing it and are generally favorable to putting the word out to other professionals and laymen so that they don't make the same mistakes.

This is not the case with "Dr." Vause. When a client does not respond well to "treatment", "Dr." Vause essentially tells them to go drop dead. Is anyone surprise that sometimes they do? Not only is there no serious effort to keep in touch with former clients or to make anything like a long-term outcome study of former clients, but former clients "in good standing" are forbiden to even communicate with former clients "not in good standing" (unless, of course, like you, they're rabidly defending the quack guru)

I would leave you with this aphorism:

"There lives more faith, in honest doubt, Believe me, than in half the creeds."
--Alfred Lord Tennyson

If you have so much faith in your guru, why not look up as many former clients as you can find, talk to them, find out how they're doing in life so that you can assure yourself that the program really does "work".

Don't worry about temptation--as you grow older, it starts avoiding you.  
-- Old Farmer's Almanac

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2002, 09:47:00 PM

"Please don't give me some lame answer about how they are "partly" responsible for Brian's death.  If you think it is Dr. V.'s or AARC's fault just say so, but please quit hinting at it."

Please give me black or white only please? Is it hard to comprehend anything else than that? Can you only support your program %100 and therefore anyone outside of it is %100 wrong? Do they have to be %100 for your "Dr" or %100 for the other? Ever ask yourself why?

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2002, 12:10:00 AM

OK, so besides being a looser they are also stupid. I left no hint. It is plain and simple Dean/AARC are partly responsible, and most likely they as well from what I am hearing, as being a part of AARC, that it would seem they want to try and absolve their selves from guilt by denying what can be done to the human psyche in order to destroy one's self esteem enough to commit suicide.

(Did I mention that they were also stupid, as well as a looser?)

This is your brain ::stab::
________________

Some Days It's Just Not Worth
Chewing Through The Leather Straps


[ This Message was edited by: SysAdmin on 2002-12-06 21:16 ]

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2002, 12:11:00 AM

On 2002-12-06 18:47:00, Anonymous wrote: Please give me black or white only please? Is it hard to comprehend anything else than that?

For some people, it's udderly[sic] impossible. Cult mentality is built upon absolutism--totalism. You're fer us or agin us, right or wrong, good or bad. That's all there is.

The really ironic part? If you accept the thesis that a friend is someone who knows all about you and likes you anyway, we're probably the best friends these assholes have. Anyone else, if the knew the truth, would hang them in the town square.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: jeffz*cc*l* on December 23, 2002, 12:21:00 AM

First of all, I only know Dean Vause (prior to PhD's, AARC,etc.) from his days training in NJ under the roof of KIDS of Bergen County/KIDS of North Jersey.  My recollection of him is vague (13+ years ago).

I knew Brian Neil (he was my newcomer) and someone who I would consider to be a friend.  My reaction to hearing of his tragic death sickened me (as does hearing of anyone from treatment dying a preventable death).  

From reading all of the past 50 or so posts, it is VERY clear that there are two conflicting views & opinions.  Being human requires one to think for themselves.  To receive information, process it, analyze it and form some type of opinion.  Clearly, that opinion will be colored & influenced by one's experiences up to that point, information received and a variety of other factors.  To reiterate, the opinions on this post totally conflict.  The problem that I have is that they are BOTH very extreme and allow very little room for reasoning.

It has been my experience in working with many ex-cult members (no, I am not a professional, I am a mortgage investment banker by trade) that one of the many common threads of cults is the black & white, right & wrong, us versus them, good & bad with nothing but seperation between each extreme.

Many of the great thinkers & philosophers for the past 2500+ years have had great theories that make perfect sense about life, our existence & man's relation to it.  One of the common problems with most of them is that they lose validity, when taken to absolute extremes.

I know that KIDS was a horrific place where I was tortured for most of my 4 1/2 year incarceration there.  All that I think that I know about AARC is that its initial intention was to "take the good from KIDS" and try to replace or to change what was bad.

 :nworthy: Any person who is in a position of "ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY" is vulnerable to the intoxication of power.  Throughout history, people who may have came from different places in life, ultimately ended up in very destructive and dangerous situations, those which threatened the autonomy & wellbeing of those who follow his or her "ABSOLUTE" ways :nworthy: .

Man is imperfect.  If that is slanderous then I just opened myself up to about 2 billion international & global lawsuits. ::deal::

The imperfection of men (& women) simply prevents us from successfully being in a position of unaccountable power.  It has ultimately destroyed good leaders & the people who served them.  I have not once said that Dean Vause is in AN UNACCOUNTABLE, ABSOLUTE STATE OF POWER.

If however, a leader of such a center is not accountable to his patients whom he treats, the breeding ground for trouble is being created.

I don't know enough about the circumstances surrounding the allegations against Mr. or Dr. Vause, nor do I know anything about AARC, except that I miss all of my Canadian friends greatly (1986 - 1990).

I intimately know all of the inner working of KIDS, Newton, his absolute black & white theories and his destructive addiction to control, power & authority.  As I said earlier, it is an intoxicating state to have total power.  No human can have it because we are imperfect and if we try to hide our imperfections, they manifest themselves in other aspects of our being & our relationship with other beings.

I hope you are either very confused or very sleepy after reading my post!

Jeff Z*cc*l*
2/1986 thru 8/1990

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Serpico on December 29, 2002, 09:06:00 AM

We would appreciate copies of any documents you have on AARC or information or personal stories . As we are an action committee that is involved in investigating abusive drug rehabs that are straight-like.. We are currently doing a report on AARC and need information asap.

http://www.straightincorporated.com (http://www.straightincorporated.com)

you can email us any information you have to
[email protected]

Notice the one T in commitee

Thanks All
Sincerely,
Serpico

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: wesfager on December 31, 2002, 12:01:00 PM

Who besides Dr. Lewis Andrews have you met who was on Vause's advisory board.  Did or do any of them have any connection to AARC or Kids?  How could I confirm whay you say?

Wes Fager

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: wesfager on December 31, 2002, 12:06:00 PM

how can i contact aadac?  

Please send reply to [email protected]

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: wesfager on December 31, 2002, 12:19:00 PM

You are talking about a case in England where the daughter commited suicide.  Where is this documented.

Please send answer to [email protected]

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2003, 10:27:00 AM

Buddy, read your post over, you hold Dean Vause responsible for Brian's deathl, period. And you sound like a real screwed up person. You just do not get it -> what you were saying about, 'we help everyone that asks for help or when they are coming back' - no one person in AA is responsible for every other person everytime they come back OR ask for help. It that is what you do, then no wonder you're screwed-up. Also, as it has been done before, people who just have given up on themselves will also try to take others down with them. Did ya ever think that Brian did a real good job at setting Dean up. He knew that what he had pulled off at AARC made him particularly dangerous to the clients in there. He knew VAUSE could not take him back, so why not let everyone know that you asked the guy for help (and because HE IS THE ONLY ONE that could help him, a laugh in itself), he refused ya, and then take your life. Then screwed up people like yourself go around telling everyone that the guy who had to refuse Brian is responsible for his suicide. Suicide is not homicide?? is it?

Besides AARC is not AA and no one should have to explain the difference to you. Brian could have gone to any A.A. N.A. meeting in Calgary and, duh started helping other people or do like any other fucked up recovering people need to do - help out in any service kind of way and/or work with newcomers. Why was Brian sooooo special and why is Vause soooo responsible for Brian's addiction and recovery??? AA/NA members "carry the message" NOT the drunk. If ya want to get sucked dry keep trying to help some one that needs to FINALLY HELP THEMSELVES. If there is always some one around that will do that, then the sick guy will never get better!!!!!!!!!! Lots of people die from addiction and those are the ones that don't take responsibility to do the things that every other f****** coming into and doing recovery has to do - the work, not expect some one else to.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Paula on January 02, 2003, 11:56:00 AM

First of all, where in any of these posts does it say ANYWHERE, and I quote your(anonymous individual who twists around the meanings to these posts) words, "Vause is responsible for Brian's death."  I do not see that anywhere...  If you open your eyes and TRULY read what is being written you'ld understand that, but then you would also have nothing to harass people about...  

If anything these posts say that Brian went to Dean for help, Brian went to AA and NA for help, he also went to his family for help...  No where does it say that all (or any) of these people/resources killed Brian...
 
Bye

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: jeffz*cc*l* on January 02, 2003, 12:09:00 PM

Whether it was Brian's, Dean's, or anybody else's fault that Brian is not here, the outcome and result will never be changed.

If we have a courtroom trial and Mr. Neil is found "Guilty of taking his own life," does any judge, jury or anyone have the ability to bring him back?  If so, please let me know, because losing my mother this year has been a real struggle to deal with and man, if I can blame someone and get her back then sign me up!

On the other hand, proving whether Dean did or did not contribute to Brian's tragic suicide will also not bring him back; HOWEVER, proving that the messages given to patients in these types of "treatment centers" can be damaging to on's overall sense of self and his/her relation to world around them is another issue.

I've never been in AARC, so I am not going to allege anything that I do not know as fact and cannot establish to be factual.  Like Dean, Velvet and many other posters on this board, I don't need an International Lawsuit for some nonsensicle crap that he said - she said.

To Everyone here:  Instead of throwing mud at AARC & Dean, wouldn't it be more productive to point out publicly the specific methods of treatment that may be considered questionable, damaging or even counter productive?  Mud throwing has a really simple result!  EVERYONE IS DIRTY WHEN WE ARE DONE PLAYING!

I think it may be unreasonable to actually pin down DEAN to take ultimate responsibility for Brian's death; however, did the Kids message and the years that he was there doing hard time contribute?  You bet your ass!  May it have contributed to about 20+ suicides of my personal friends who were imprisoned there?  You better fucking believe it!  Why?  Let me explain...

When Kids (maybe AARC) did intakes for people to become patients, everything was very black & white fromthat very second.  You ARE druggie (even if you don't admit to using & abusing) from the second that you arrive there.  That label will never leave you whether it is accurate or not.  

In addition, the freedom of self is not only suppressed, but it is constantly shamed, and blamed for not only what has been done in the past, but for the incarceration in treatment.  The message of scaring someone into submission by using tactics such as sensory depravation (i.e. food regulation, sleep, no exposure to anything but a constant message) weakens the person's ability to "think for himself" and a state of hypnosis begins.  The person becomes very open to "suggestions."  Even if someone never had sex with an animal, hearing everyone around them in this controlled enviroment with no ability to try & discern for himself what is real & what is not, it would be, has been and will continue to be the perfect opportunity for that person to either think that maybe he did have sex with an animal or after people hounding him to "get honest" he may even own up to it for the simple rewards that follow.  He gets to earn talk, group accepts him, people are off his back and he may be one step closer to going home.

You CANNOT tell people that life, addiction & alcoholism are BLACK & WHITE!  Why not, Jeff?  Because of this.  The principals of AA are clear that anyone with a DESIRE TO STOP DRINKING can be a member.  If someone decides in time, that they are an alcoholic, it is only then that they will be classified as such and only by themselves.

At the same time, there are people who went into and were held in tratment for almost 5 years, so I have nothing but an 8th grade education in my juvenile years, I missed out on the life experiences that are required by ourminds, bodies and souls to mature.  Speaking about living sober for 5 years is different from being out of treatment for 2 weeks and staying sober (straight if you insist).  We can only grow fromour experiences.  Wisdom is gained through trial & error in life.  It is not acheived by preventing people from making their own errors and mistakes.  Whats worse is to tell someone that if they make a mistake, that without question, they will relapse, be miserable & die.  That begins to set the stage for devastation...

In KIDS the message to me was clearly, if you leave you may do drugs, but you will DEFINATELY kill yourself.  they went as far as to have a psychiatrist (name mentioned upon private request only) diagnose me as absolutely crazy to convince me & my parents to stay when I was signing out.  That doctor has since apologized publicly and privately for that false diagnosis and has assured me that I was okay, just reacting to my incarceration in KIDS like anyone else.

If you tell someone that if they screw up, then they are doomed to use, get high and die and you are their therapist, then you have some fucking balls!  The liability for planting that single seed in someone's head is unlimited and whether they do or do not off themselves, you as a therapist should be castrated for telling a paitient something so outlandish, untrue and damaging.

People are supposed to make mistakes and do the wrong thing.  If theyt didn't would they be human?  When Adam & Eve ate that forbidden fruit was God pissed?  Yeah!  Did he decide to end the human race, hell no!  If we cannot make mistakes then we are subject to try & live perfect.  Being human, we lack the ability to be perfect so we are doomed for failure.  If this failure is automatically given programmed consequences of "copping out, hurting myself, getting high and killing myself" then the person prescribing that thought process should absolutely be brought up on charges, murder if it applies.  The reasoning is simple:

Therapy is supposed to help people and it requires a great deal of trust on the patient's part of the therapist. "HOLD ON!!!!  HOLD THE PRESS!!! Did I say anywhere that if a patient kills themself that its the therapist's fault?  Please don't EVER let me say or insinuate that!

Patient must trust therapist.  Therapist gives patient guidance & suggestions and helps patient take a new look at their life experiences.  If the therapist uses that sacred TRUST and manipulates the patient to believe things that would be considered unreasonable or untrue and it causes the patient to kill themself, then we have another story...  HANG ON, I'm not done yet...

To tell young people that doing drugs is bad, is a good thing.  To tell people that doing drugs MAY cause their life to become unmanageable is very accurate.  To tell people that if they ever leave treatment they will not ever be STRAIGHT to real standards.  To make young people believe that AA doesn't work and that they will be doomed to fail because it is too weak.  To make them internalize the concept that without this magic rehab then I'm doomed to OD on drugs and die or kill myself (see KIDS 1st step- unmanageables...).

This is out - fucking - rageous.  It is totally false and has no basis for being true outside of a controlled enviroment.  To make people believe this false totalitarian message is homocide in my opinion and yes, I have no problem of establishing a case for EVERY single patient that took their own life out of KIDS.   It is the planting of a seed of self destruction that confuses people who leave these programs.  Ultimately they can't be in there forever, so you mean to tell me that they lack the ability to live productive and healthy lives without AARC or KIDS?  

Sorry to disappoint anyone, but that stregnth comes from within, not from outside.  While powerless over drugs, it is insane to insinuate that people are powerless over changing their lives "without the magic of rehab."  If that was so, then why have so many millions before these programs been saved from the insanity of their addictions?  It is because of the pure, untwisted and original message of AA.  Not the NEW steps.  

I think that this is a desecration of sacred AA principles.  Who the FUCK is anyone to rewrite the steps?  Who the fuck is anyone to tell kids where they will end up?  Who the fuck is anyone to say that their way is the only was and without death is near?  These are the questions that are relevant, not who gets blamed for Brian's suicide.

Jeff

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Paula on January 03, 2003, 01:33:00 PM

Hey Jeff, Good Point(s)!!

When someone dies, especially after leaving these treatments it becomes... almost critical to find answers, with the answers comes the peace and acceptance of death.  However, in finding those answers many people turn to their "loved one" in this case Brian, and put him on a pedestal, therefore negating his own personal responsibilities for his own life.  And in turn, everyone who didn't do what we (or society) deems as the "right" thing to have done is now blamed for their actions and the eventual death of our loved ones.  Hence Dean, AARC etc...  I guess what I am trying to say and what I think a lot of people are trying to express is this(this is just my opinion and what I am picking up on from these posts):  

- Loved one dies

- People look for answers to find peace and acceptance with there 'loss'

- They may turn inwards and place the blame on themselves -OR- they may look to place the blame elsewhere -OR- they may do both.  

- Grief and bereavment are probably the most painful and mind-fucking emotions to deal with.  

Facts are, with a suicide there are no answers (or very rarely anyway).  Brain wrote me a beautiful letter before he died and even with that I still wondered if there wasn't more that I could have done to 'save' him.  

This isn't a "fault" issue.  We lost a really great guy, and due to his upbringing and the events in his life he chose the road he did.  Not to hurt others, but to find his own peace.  I can't judge Brian for his decisions, I am not in his shoes.  But that also means we can't judge anyone else for their actions before Brian died, because we don't know HOW Brian perceived the actions of others before he died.  Thanks to technology and text books we can see that abuse can lead to people killing themselves (especially the abuse we have ALL incurred at the hands of some pretty sick and twisted individuals)but that is not ALWAYS the case.  Sometimes I look at all the people who have died either in or out of these programs and I wish for the life of me that I could have been inside their heads, just so that I knew what they were thinking when they did what they did, just so I had some answers...  somehow knowing what they were thinking might bring peace to those grieving their loss.

Take care all!

Paula          

[ This Message was edited by: Paula on 2003-01-03 15:43 ]

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2003, 02:37:00 AM

Antigen, antigen, antigen you are such a lost little soul.
1) Brian went through AARC was doing well then got a job in BC, went out there to work at another treatment center and got all fucked up. He was away from the evil place-AARC for months.
This is a trick question (for you) - how do you rule out confounders and place AARC and Dean Vause as the mind-fucking place and treatment professional that are the culprits in Brian's downward spiral after going to work in Nanimo??  Look up what a confounder is and maybe some theories of causation, you'll find that it is pretty hard to peg AARC or Dean with Brian's demise.

2) How the hell do you think you know Dean Vause, you have never met him, haven't even talked with him . . shit, probably wouldn't know who he was if you passed him on the street.

3) the real illustration about your limited (zero) knowledge on treatment is that you have a one dimensional perspective of the methods used and can't even grasp the simplicity in what it was all about. Most people that go through treatment and/or recovery in an 12-step program laugh about how limited and one dimensional their thinking was ('nother word for that being - stupid) before and during the process of going through those things. I guess they be laughing at you, girl cuz you still stuck there, hun.  When is your head going pop out of your ass, you ARE the one who is being led by an idiot. Use a mirror to see who that is . . .hehehehehe

 :rofl:

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2003, 03:00:00 AM

Jeff,
What the hell are you talking about??? You include AARC in the Kids Organization's hostage-taking methods. You don't know what the AARc program does. The steps are not re-written and participation in AA, or NA etc. is part of the deal for recovery.

AARC is NOT like Kids because Vause went down to Jersy and got the shit kicked out of him because he questioned what they were doing and miller-newton and his death squad decided they take a pice out Vause. Dean had been duped like most other politicians parents and other addiction specialists to think Kids was THE FUCKING PLACE for drug addiction treatment for kids. Dean found out the hard way just like the kids that were trapped in there that Miller-Newton WAS NOT some one to be admired, he was a sick mo-fo. Vause went down there thinking he was going to be trained by a bunch of great professionals and got completely trashed and chose to work with the kids that got away from there in the 1990s. One of those kids was Brian who killed himself, another one hates Dean for whatever reason (I think it is called having a resentment, which is the complete responsibility of the person who has it not the person, intitute or thing that the resentment is towards). Then there are a good number of those kids that are sober and living a life they were definitely not headed towards and they are grateful to Vause. You win some, you lose some. Dean's passion is to help kids, and there are far more 'kids' that are grtateful than the whiners who are still looking to blame others for the fact they just can't let go of dumping the responsibility for their life on someone else. funny thing is is that these same pinheads think THEY are the smart one . . . well if they are so smart why can't they get a life and get on with living?????

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2003, 12:44:00 PM

Only those few people? What about the one who had to sign a legal agreement not to speak about why they are no longer a part of aarc?

If Vause hated Newton and Kids so much why did he leave the lovely scenery of Vancouver to return to Alberta to help Newton form Kids of the Canadian West? He'd already left Kids of North Jersey. If Social Services hadn't stepped in Dean would probably still be working under Newton running Kids Centers of Canada. Vause also took Newton's advice on where to attend school. It sounds to me like they were buddies.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on August 04, 2003, 01:49:00 AM

I wanted to say that I agree with you on this topic.  I am a recent graduate of AARC and I know the Dr. Vause is not the person that these people are making him out to be.  Thank you for you're support

Evan

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: velvet20000 on October 02, 2003, 05:25:00 PM

There's no possible way someone could use drugs like meth or ectasy or even coke safe...Even if it's only once it still damages the body, and they're very addicting it only takes one time...I think if someone knows about the drugs they're putting in their body it won't make a difference, it didn't matter for me and I know it doesn't matter for hundreds thousands of others..

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2003, 12:13:00 AM

So if someone knows the risks of a drug and uses it once does that really make them an addict? Or are they  just stupid? There's nothing you can really do to recover the stupid, but if you're stupid and you are sent into "recovery" you'll be the first to give up what you weren't addicted to and begin reciting the lingo because you aren't smart enough to realize that you don't need to.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2003, 11:15:00 PM

could you please fill me in on the actual daily program that aarc puts it's clients through?
i am concerned, as my brother has just joined today as an alternative to jail. please get back to me!!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2003, 11:35:00 PM

It is basically "group therapy" all day and night, although not that theraputic. Your brother will be monitored 24-7 by "oldcomers" and not be allowed to have contact with you or your family with the exception of "talks" which is a supervised discussion held twice per week and involves your brother giving a detailed description of a time where he used drugs or drank. At first he won't know the proper way of doing this and the Talk will last about two minutes. As he grows practiced and learns how to break it apart and embelish it will last about five minutes. Eventually he will be able to return home at nights and he will begin hosting Talks instead.

Your brother will eat breakfast in a "host home" and then start mornings at AARC off with a prayer. Until lunchtime he will take part in "Raps". You can read and see pictures of Raps at http://www.thestraights.com (http://www.thestraights.com).

After lunch - bck to Raps. Dinner - Raps. etc. He will occasionally be able to make use of the excercise equipment in the building but this will not be often.

The hours of the days differ but eventually he'll return to a host home. They try to send you to a different host home as often as possible so that nobody feels "safe". Most host homes are decent places although there has been some serious issues. Either way he'll probably be happy to return to any household as long as he's out of AARC!

Your brother has the right to request to see his probation officer as often as he pleases and he is allowed to see this probation officer alone where an AARC staffer is not within hearing distance. Please make sure that he is allowed this right! To ensure this you will need to develope a relationship with the probation officer and ask him/her to make phone calls to AARC and speak directly to your brother, and to judge his responses by the tone in his voice, considering that the calls will be monitored. Or He/she can set up a code word during a private meeting that can be used on the phone. Your brother has the right to request being sent BACK to prison, although the probation officer has the right to choose against it. If your brother is being mistreated he will not be able to tell you, and so his probation officer is his only guardian.

You may also want to ensure that your brothers lawyer continues a relationship with him. There have been others who have made the same decision and they were unable to return to prison where they felt safer. However a client did regain freedom because of a consistent lawyer. The theory behind court ordering someone to rehabilitation is that instead of setting a release on a specific date they hand that decision over to the treatment facility. Therfore as long as your brother is in AARC his case is not truly over and his release needs to be negotiated.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Hamiltonf on October 04, 2003, 12:39:00 PM

You said:
"i am concerned, as my brother has just joined today as an alternative to jail. please get back to me!!"

If you haven't registered on this site I recommend that you do so, then go to private messages and I can give you my e-mail address so that we may talk about this less publicly.  
I would like to know which person or persons in authority are dictating these alternatives.  I am a lawyer in Edmonton and am aware of a number of court rulings regarding AARC.    

Was this court ordered? Probation Officer recommendation? Was it Child Welfare? Social Workers?, Parents?  
I have a feeling that somebody hasn't been adequately informed of their rights in the matter.  Does he have a lawyer?  Does the lawyer have exposure to the two sides of the debate.  Contact me on "Private messages".

By the way, watch W5 on CTV tonight.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2003, 07:51:00 PM

As far as I know the AB courts are no longer court ordering youth to AARC but they might still be giving it as an option to the youth, which most youth take thinking it will be an easy recovery system and they'll be free sooner.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2003, 08:40:00 PM

Does ANYONE realize that even posting on this site there is no so-called 'freedom'.  We are not free to speak our mind, or the truth as we see it...if something comes up that offends 'Velvet' (as she likes to be called, when it is convenient to her), she simply deletes, edits, or changes to her suiting....or, posts a message under 'Anonymous' in order to argue, to pick apart, or to slant what she disagrees with...it's a complete joke!!!  This site is nothing but a world for 'Velvet' to manipulate and control, and release her own obsessive, compulsive, addictive personality on.  If your intentions for this site are freedom-of-speech, if they truly are sincere and honorable, if you can be objective...THEN HAVE THE COURAGE TO LET PEOPLE SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES AND LET THE WORDS STAND ON THEIR OWN!!!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Hamiltonf on October 04, 2003, 09:55:00 PM

If you watched W5 tonight you would have received a well balanced view of the whole situation----
In summary --- Jessica Bruen -- stole for drugs, featured at  the beginning of the program and at the end, thinks that but for AARC she'd be dead.
Dean Vause --- "every one an addict", society has deemed them "unsalvagable"    Uh huh!
Danielle  a "newcomer -- signed a consent to stay , parents same -- found "tremendous repetition" with the rap sessions  -- "sounds like behavoiur modigfication to me"
Dean Vause " I think of it as therapeutic"
Ralph Klein & Sarah McLaughlin -- positive
Professor Barry Beyerstein, (psycho-pharmacologist)  -- (the only one with any credible credentials so far )"highly suspicious -- brainwashing"
Then we go to Ivy Ridge and the WWASP stuff
at $60,000.00 it's "big business"
Jason Finlayson denies the abuse really happens
Dundee Ranch Academy
Casa by the sea
Brainwashing -- abuse
Ryan Friedenberg ---, Jason's father
Jason Finlayson "we don't hog-tie kids"  Deny deny deny -- (reminds you of wife-murderer and politician Colin Thatcher, don't it?)
Marty Heath -  ISAC has AARC in it's sights
Jessica McArthur
Program ends with the question as to whether the ends justifies the means Professor Barry Beyerstein thinks not.  

Dean Vause was given lots of opportunity to justify his methodology.  CTV gave a balanced view and allows viewers to reach their own conclusions.  

Certainly a lot less under the control of AARC than "Recovering Krystal"  I wonder what David Suzuki thinks?

So... did "Velvet" edit that?  I think not.  I suggest that the CTV program is entirely consistent with what Velvet has been doing on this site for quite some time.  ................
enjoy

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2003, 11:54:00 PM

Who is Jason Finlayson???????

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2003, 11:12:00 AM

He was the manager of a centre that was closed down.  Now managing another one
About abuse ????  It's just Deny, Deny, Deny.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2003, 11:27:00 AM

Quote

On 2003-10-04 18:55:00, Hamiltonf wrote:



Dean Vause --- "every one an addict", society has deemed them "unsalvagable"    Uh huh!


"

I wonder if the filming crew thought to check that out with "every one" of the inmates .  Or had Dean Vause convinced the inmates they were "unsalvagable" addicts as part of their introductory indoctrination.
So just who was it that deemed them "unsalvagable" Dean?
It is offensive to suggest that anyone is "unsalvagable" and certainly, most un-Christian.

Hypocrite.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Hamiltonf on October 06, 2003, 05:29:00 PM

I guess it's Finlinson.

We don't do that anymore is an admission that you did it.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2003, 11:03:00 AM

Velvet, you have just completly lost all of your credibility in my eyes

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2003, 11:15:00 AM

In response to Anonymous starting "First of all I don't know why my last post appeared as anonymous...that was me. "

Just a couple point from my perspective:

-all the prostiutes I know in AARC used to support their habit

-the statistics now come from (I don't know where they were from before) research done by a clinical staff member in AARC, who interviewed graduates 100-199 and came back with the statistics that 80% were sober today, 15% confirmed using and the other 5% they didn't know about.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2003, 04:21:00 PM

I was between graduate 100 - 199 and nobody made an attempt to interview me. There wouldn't be any reason for me to fall into "5% they don't know about". They could have just called because they still have my contact information and there's no reason for anyone from aarc to think that they can't couldn't call me or for that matter that I'm using.

So really, I don't think there's any basis behind what they are saying. If they interviewed anyone at all it was probably just the clients still in the inner circle of aarcville. If that's the case then the success rate is really really bad.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Hamiltonf on January 01, 2004, 03:54:00 AM

There's no scientific basis for the kind of statistics AARC uses.  
Reason :
1.  They only use "graduates" to measure success.
2.  There is no measure of theose who do NOT graduate.
3.  There is no objective measure of whether those "entering" the program had any "problem" to start off with anyway.
4.  Ther is no definition of what constitutes a "problem" in any event.   Only what Dean Vause and his cronies try to tell you is a problem
5.  It's all in how the cases are filtered  --- how much money can the gullible parents afford to pay, etc etc.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2004, 09:14:00 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHH this colum is soooo funny. I check in every couple of months..absolutely halarious...keep it up velvet   you give me much comic relief!!!!!! AHASJHDASKJSDKLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on January 08, 2004, 06:39:00 AM

Recovering Krystal was just shown for the first time on Australian tv tonight. I found the doco quite convincing in that it seemed to really bring about a positive change in the girl. But I must admit I kept having twinges of annoyance at the way the 'counsellors' would talk to the teens and their parents. I especially got that feeling with Vause. He seemed to be badgering people into thinking a certain way. For example, he would ask a question and then pause for only 2 secs and provide the answer to which the emotional kid would only dutifully nod. Anyway, I had mixed feelings about what I saw, so I did a search in good old google and came upon an editorial to do with the possible links between KIDS and the AARC and then found my way here.

I must say the most cogent arguments I have seen in this thread alone (the only one I've read so far) have definitely been on the side of those questioning Vause. Some of the defenders of him are the ones coming across as loonies and troublemakers. But perhaps that's what those anonymous posters are intending in the hope of disrupting the board and diverting its focus on finding the truth of the situation. That's enough from me, but best of luck to all those pursuing truth and honesty!   :smile:

PS. Is anyone aware of programs like this in Australia? I know of one organisation that I think promotes similar concepts as AARC appears to. It was called Tough Love from memory.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Antigen on January 08, 2004, 03:40:00 PM

Good instinct Ausie,
  The TOUGHLOVE hategroup seems to have taken hold in Australia around the same time Straight, Inc. founders, Melvin and Betty Sembler, occupied public housing via the US State Department under the Büsh I administratin. Now they're doing their thing over in Italy. Kids and AARC are spin-off programs based on the Straight, Inc. model.

One has to multiply thoughts to the point where there aren't enough
policemen to control them



--Stanislaw Lec

[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2004-01-08 12:41 ]

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on January 22, 2004, 11:44:00 AM

In response to:
"""""""""
There's no scientific basis for the kind of statistics AARC uses.
Reason :
1. They only use "graduates" to measure success.
2. There is no measure of theose who do NOT graduate.
3. There is no objective measure of whether those "entering" the program had any "problem" to start off with anyway.
4. Ther is no definition of what constitutes a "problem" in any event. Only what Dean Vause and his cronies try to tell you is a problem
5. It's all in how the cases are filtered --- how much money can the gullible parents afford to pay, etc etc.
"""""""""

First of all. I don't know what else there is to measure success of a treatment center other than sober graduates. Especially being that sober graduates is the goal. It IS a treatment center, not "a Kiss the Clients ass center" and "a make the program look good for the newspaper center". Second, those who did not graduate, weren't treated properly, so why should they be included in the statistics. Anybody putting out a product in to society, doesn't cover products under the manufacturer's warranty if they haven't been certified in the first place. I see no difference between the two. AARC isn't responsible for people who chose to leave or were terminated. Thirdly, there is definitely a measure of whether or not the clients have a problem. Just ask their family members, teachers, counsellors and psychologists, and jail security guards. They'll tell you what they saw. Don't forget the assessment process too which involves an outside assessment and recomendations. Then there is the fact that there is a waiting list for AARC and they have no use for people without problems. Fourthly, I think we all know what a "problem" is. We all learned it in early childhood and it is pretty clear that any person needing to be admitted to AARC has at least one problem. Finally, some of the "gullible parents" cant afford to pay much at all but AARC holds fund raisers so that no family can be turned away.

Anyways, I think this forum is a joke and it's fun to read this stuff. Thank you for the entertainment. Sometimes I get bored and decide that I want to read some comments from weak people. Great. Lovin it. Get honest!

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: butternationaIist on January 23, 2004, 12:49:00 PM

e

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: butternationaIist on January 23, 2004, 12:49:00 PM

w

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: butternationaIist on January 23, 2004, 12:50:00 PM

o

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: butternationaIist on January 23, 2004, 12:50:00 PM

k

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: butternationaIist on January 23, 2004, 12:50:00 PM

s

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: butternationaIist on January 23, 2004, 12:50:00 PM

r

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2004, 12:05:00 PM

what the %$#@ Butter?

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2004, 01:18:00 AM

even child molestors have fans

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2005, 08:05:00 PM

I'm looking to chat with someone who has graduated from the AARC program in Calgary, Alberta.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on February 27, 2005, 09:41:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-02-26 17:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'm looking to chat with someone who has graduated from the AARC program in Calgary, Alberta."

Regarding?

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2005, 11:56:00 AM

Dean was worthless !

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2005, 05:00:00 AM

:wstupid:

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: THEJOSHUAFACTOR on April 27, 2006, 03:33:00 PM

OKAY Ass-hats;

Why would you measure the success of someone who didnt finish the program? You are crying science, but in science, in order to get effective results one must complete the operations necessary for deducing......... accurate and complete results.

So how would it be an effective measure if someone didn't complete treatment start to finish?

Yall need to rock yall couches. This is pretty basic order here... none of you seem to posess adequate knowledge of well... anything.[ This Message was edited by: THEJOSHUAFACTOR on 2006-04-27 12:34 ][ This Message was edited by: THEJOSHUAFACTOR on 2006-04-27 13:10 ]

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: ajax13 on July 06, 2007, 12:53:05 AM

Quote from: Guest

In response to:
Second, those who did not graduate, weren't treated properly, so why should they be included in the statistics. Anybody putting out a product in to society, doesn't cover products under the manufacturer's warranty if they haven't been certified in the first place. I see no difference between the two.  Fourthly, I think we all know what a "problem" is. We all learned it in early childhood and it is pretty clear that any person needing to be admitted to AARC has at least one problem.

Fantastic demonstration of the lack of cognitive skills among AARColytes.  AARC graduates are not the product AARC sells.  AARC sells treatment.  Somebody pays for every AARC inmate, whether they graduate or not.  AARC clients are the "customers".  
That last bit was just too rich.  
In general, people admitted to AARC have a number of problems.  As a rule,  their mothers have mental illness or just poor parenting skills.  Their fathers are absent, damaged or again, just have poor parenting skills.  Another significant problem that someone admitted to AARC has is that they are in AARC.  That's probably the biggest problem.

Title: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2007, 06:35:40 PM

Anyone who knows anything about research knows that you have to include *everyone who starts* treatment (not just graduates) in your statistics in order for them to honestly demonstrate the success rate of your treatment.

This is known as "intention to treat" analysis-- and it is a critical element in evaluating health care. For example, let's say I'm trying to sell my "eat no food for 40 days" diet.  I can honestly claim that 100% of people who religiously follow this diet will lose weight.  Of course, virtually no one will do that-- and this is one reason why intention to treat analysis matters.  it measures real-world outcomes, not outcomes of those with superhuman will power.

Or, say, I have a treatment for nail fungus that works great but causes severe diarrhea.  Virtually no one will be willing to put up with that side effect so my clinical trials are going to have a high drop out rate:  but I could possibly sneak the drug past the FDA if I didn't do intention to treat analysis, which is another reason why it is used.

Also of note:  for a study to realistically measure treatment outcomes, not only does it have to be an intention-to-treat analysis, it has to reach a significant portion of those who started the study.  In other words, mailing a survey and getting 30% of them back doesn't count.  Unless you get 60, 70, 80% or more back, you are probably having a selection effect:  in other words, the people who are replying are not a random sample.

Most likely, you are getting a larger proportion replying of those doing well-- for several reasons.  One:  people not doing well might not be reachable by mail-- homeless, in jail, etc.  Two:  people not doing well have been taught to blame themselves, so they are embarrassed to admit it.  Three:  people doing well like to boast about it and will take the time to fill out the survey.  Etc.

Unless you have a significant response rate (or you control for lack of response by assuming a large negative bias-- for example, assuming all nonresponders have bad outcomes), you are not going to say anything real about effectiveness.

And, of course, you should also have a control group that was either untreated or treated with a different method in order to show that people didn't just get better with time, which is very, very common with kids.

Title: Re: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Dannyb123 on February 13, 2009, 02:58:06 AM

I am sorry but MOST of you people have the wrong Idea about AARC.

This is my story.

Me and my 3 brothers have grown up as third class citizens our entire life my two oldest brothers are well off. one is going to university and the other one is now a well known electrical engineer i am finishing my grade twelve and my other brother who is younger then I is in AARC. Now last summer my brother got into a confrontation at home while I had moved out and Hit my mother for the first time. I almost killed him when i saw him next. He is lucky my mom found AARC because it got him away from her. It has been 5 months now that he as been in AARC and has finally earned step 3. At this point he has actually admitted that he had hit my mother because he was craving drugs and she was not letting him. (I would like to add hear that IT WAS BECAUSE OF DRUGS!!!!!) now that he is home and dealing with the problems he no longer feels as if he needs drugs, and he is open and tells us what he has pain over and what caused him to use drugs. (This is not a cult and i know that for one reason, THEY DON'T TELL YOU WHAT TO BELIEVE your Higher power can be AA, NA, or the GOD from the HOLY BIBLE what ever you need it to be, except it can not be your self! and a cult try to make you believe in there god! not letting you have a choice in the matter.) Coming to this point shows that AARC is about getting real for the reason that you do things and to be honest not just with other but with YOURSELF! this is the most important part because if you can't be truthful to yourself then how can you respect yourself or others! what i have seen this place works EVEN for a person who was going to kill themselves "AKA" my brother even after only 4 years of drug use and abuse. If you understand Addiction the you will understand that it is and obsession of the mind that i recently learnt, after they use once they can't stop thinking about it because of how good it felt to feel Nothing!

Yes in the beginning i thought that DR V was over the top but you know what. Once you have been at the end of the casket of your friend who Drank them self's to DEATH then you might have a different approach, see a Difficult disease calls for desperate measures and stopping my brother from me killing him or him killing himself IS WORTH IT! and this goes back to Detachment i Love my Brother but if he touched my mother one more time it is better that he would die so he wouldn't hurt anyone ever again then letting it continue because watching him destroy himself was just as destructive as him hitting my mother because we get to watch him go down.(This disease effects the whole family trust me i have watched it happen to my own!) This was tearing my family apart. Now that we are through part of this program our family peaces are now being put back together and its all thanks to DR.V.

Story finished!

Now how many times does it take some one to get addicted to a substance? have you ever done research!!!! well there are two answers for a person such as my self it would take alot because i do not have an addictive mind set i can take 1 drink and never think of it again, it would take me forcing my self to drink for a few weeks to break the bearior into the threshold of addiction. However for my brother who has a very addictive mind set he took his first huff and got addicted that's all he could think about! really its the roll of the die, similar to how long it takes for them to head down hill. if they dive full into it they will soon with in 6 - 18 months to the point where they OD a fare bit(this in its self is life threatening) and they want to stop but they just can't. (if you look into addiction it is actual the loss of the ability to make the decision to say no to and particular thing. Addiction doesn't just pertain to drugs, people have also become addicted to computer games!) so legalizing drugs would only make this more accessible to them and allow the circle of addiction to continue AKA BAD IDEA!!!!!!!

And again with DR.V I Looked at his paper and he has QUOTED every source that he used case study's, everything! So understand the word Plagiarism before you accuse a person of it and read there paper! you might actual find out that you don't actually know as much as you think you do.. and.. you can actually speak without making a fool of your self... WHAT a wonder that would be. Try to sound smart for a change, DO RESEARCH. i know to much to ask right, you know getting facts right and all! And how this sounds you should be in AARC as well allot of you, and to those of you who don't use come and see the miracle that happens and how they get out of them self's and help others to fill that need for drugs! that's what AARC teaches and you shouldn't talk about things you don't understand it just plain ignorant and i hate people who don't know how to actually look into something and give hard proven facts and only use there feelings to dictate fact. I am sorry but ADAAC has a less then 20% success rate for people that stay sober then AARC who has a more then 80 % success rate for people that stay sober so all I can tell you is that a bad tree cant bare good fruit.

That's it and there aint no more

P.S. They do include all of the people who start! AKA the one who drank him self to death was included in the stats and he didn't stay past step 1. To all those who sit there typing to criticize me i would suggest you think whole heatedly if you want to argue the fact the my brother will now be sober because of this place and it finally gave him back the power to say NO and live his life instead of running away from the pain (O ya and i forgot to mention that ya they force you to delve and talk about your most deepest darkest secrets for one reason if you can't be honest with others and with your self YOU WONT MAKE IT! you will end up hating your self other and eventually killing your self like the guy who you guys spoke of most attentively i am sorry but he was sick and stuck in his disease if he chose to bear what ever it was he would find acceptance and understanding helping him get over it instead of internalizing it.) that's y DR.V would not let him work for him again and that's because if your are in your disease you can not show the way out no matter what your experiences where before that. like think logically about this i will give you a little metaphor a blind man says to another man in the dark night let me show you the light so the man on the ground unable to see takes the mans and and the blind man walks them into a ditch. how can a man blind lead anyone to a source of light!

Title: Re: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Dannyb123 on February 13, 2009, 03:11:12 AM

Quote

Fantastic demonstration of the lack of cognitive skills among AARColytes. AARC graduates are not the product AARC sells. AARC sells treatment. Somebody pays for every AARC inmate, whether they graduate or not. AARC clients are the "customers".
That last bit was just too rich.
In general, people admitted to AARC have a number of problems. As a rule, their mothers have mental illness or just poor parenting skills. Their fathers are absent, damaged or again, just have poor parenting skills. Another significant problem that someone admitted to AARC has is that they are in AARC. That's probably the biggest problem.

Realy??? my mother is mentaly ill. hmm she cooks she cleans and she goes out of her way to make sure that we are taken care of and then she takes care of herself, she then disiplined us when we needed it because we where doing somthing WRONG go figure i think this is called parenting skills 101. And my father was never absent although he did work a fair bit he was alwas a part of our lives. and how can being admited to AARC be a problem??? they have to have a problem first before they are addmited to AARC. THEY ARE ADDICTS! amayzing consept... people... who are addicts... admited to a fourm of.. long term regerus drug Rehab... NO WAY... WHY WOULD THAT HAPPEN???

seriously man I dont speek for you but your angry that they actuly have acheaments and your left in the dust, because you refuse to be honost your post was filled with hate and dont understand a dam thing, get out of your self and be glad that some people get out of this addiction and into a life to which they can call there own. And maby you can get out of your sinkhole of a life and learn somthing

Title: Re: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2009, 01:22:28 PM

I guess you won't watch the Fifth Estate tonight on CBC, you'll be at "open meeting" at AARC.

You can still catch it on Sat or next week though.

 :deal:

Title: Re: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: ajax13 on March 08, 2009, 01:15:01 PM

Quote from: "Dannyb123"

I am sorry but ADAAC has a less then 20% success rate for people that stay sober then AARC who has a more then 80 % success rate for people that stay sober so all I can tell you is that a bad tree cant bare good fruit.

Yet another example of an AARColyte selling the lie that over 80% of AARColytes stay sober, when their own study showed that only 48% of their sample group had stayed sober from graduation up to the time of the study.  As the time since graduation varied widely, from a few months up to five years, nothing in the study indicates that the long-term outcome for graduates of AARC will be any better than AADAC.

Hope it's not too windy up on that hill, AARC army!

Title: Re: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2009, 01:27:04 PM

If you keep reading thru the study you will come upon Table 2:

AARC Outcome Study (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=312005&sid=53ece506bf5951c81e62a3482ce83a28&sid=53ece506bf5951c81e62a3482ce83a28#p312005)

Summary:
85% of all graduates are still living a clean and sober life after 4 years
93% of all graduates are still living a clean and sober life after 12 months
52% of all graduates have had at least one relapse since graduating.

Title: Re: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
Post by: sldl on October 03, 2011, 10:30:30 PM

I know Dean Vause for 30 years since he was in Kamsack Sask as a guidance cousellor , he was nice funny and caring, He cared about everyone and was always will to help someone.