Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 12, 2005, 05:53:00 PM
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Hi Everyone
This is Chris, you may or may not know me. I just want to post a thread in regards to how disorganized this forum has become... I can't even keep up with the posts anymore.
Antigen.. I was curious.. why not publically archive all the old stuff, and start fresh? It really is getting so out of hand and unpractical.
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Hmm, do you think that was the intention? Make it so hard to follow by burrying information that might be of interest to many. If you notice everytime something very potent comes up the whole forum goes crazy and all kinds of new threads get started. Thus the result... nearly impossible to follow and gain any useful information. What a brilliant idea to start over! You got my vote.
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There are currently 4 or 5 threads below this one that have some great opinions and questions. Anyone care to take a chance at responding??? Its amazing to me how difficult it is to get a few simple questions answered.
A vote for GW is a vote for America's Führer.
--Anonymous (it's best that way...)
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Well, Chris, this goes to my devout belief in a laissez faire approach.
I do think the mess around here is intentional. Before they started spamming about Joyce, they first spent damned near 12 hours reading this forum and everything relating to PURE, then spammed the Teen Help forum w/ one liners about WWASP. Anyone care to guess who that was? Seriously. I don't know, but I'm curious.
Anyway, the only thing we've done to address that problem has been to build the "watch topic" feature. If you have a valid email address in your profile, you can click the "watch topic" link at the foot of each topic page and you'll get email notification every time that topic gets a new post. To turn it off, just load that page and click "Stop watching this topic", which you'll find in the same place.
Aside from that, all you can really do is scroll, scroll, scroll past the BS or use the search page to find what you're looking for. Or ask. Maybe someone else who reads your post is also interested in the same topic. Oh, and we added a "bump" graphic to the smileys just for the purpose of dredging up interesting topics out of just this kind of muck.
So... which topics were you looking for? I can help you find them.
I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
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Guess that helps clear up several postings I was reading:
Many had declared that Ginger Warbis and I are "best friends,"---never met the lady.
Others stated that Ginger Warbis and I started this whole WHITMORE topic. I was told about it, when I was being talked about it by NAME in December 2004. I do believe Whitmore was being discussed long before then; posssibly long before Sue Scheff first told us about Whitmore and referred us there in Oct 2004. Amazing how gossip gets started.
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shut up joyce were getting sick of hearing your opinion
child abuser
why dont you spend your time on your daughter instead of on a useless website all day?
Thats the reason she turned out bad, if even bad, cuz you waste your time on stupid things like this. Go do something with your family for real
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On 2005-03-13 15:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"shut up joyce were getting sick of hearing your opinion
child abuser
why dont you spend your time on your daughter instead of on a useless website all day?
Thats the reason she turned out bad, if even bad, cuz you waste your time on stupid things like this. Go do something with your family for real"
And you're wasting your time on stupid things like this useless website because?
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i would have to agree there is alot of waisted time going on here. lady if you would get a life you wouldnt need to send your child away. was that the 3rd pprogram you took her out of. YES! is anybody good enough for you? or did you always just get worried she would tell them what she told child protection services in texas more than once. i think so i think thats why you hate cheryl so much. imagine what cheryl could tell us about what zita confided in her? so this is why you are trying to make her look bad. lady you are a vvery sick woman. maybe you should spend some money on yourself for some THERAPY. now that would be alot more than the 40 grand you keep belly acken about.
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that brings up my big problem. why do you guys keep complaining about. 40 grand, my parents spent over 70 grand then sent me to whitmore. then it was 25 grand. what happened there was awesome. i will never forget all the stuff we did. we went out to dinner at least once a week. we traveled all over. I learned to Skii i rode 4wheelers for the first time. i also broke one. who do you think paid for that? i kayacked in Mexico. I traveled all over Mexico. I spent the summer in Canada. I had my own horse that i learned to take care ofi DID get my diploma. it WAS accredited. i AM at a very good UNIVERSITY. my life IS great. i am NOT brainwashed. ETC...ETC..why do you keep LYING about these people. is it all about the money. well hello, maybe you should pay the going rate of 80,000. put it to pencil how much do you think it takes to run a place like they offer? get real. I know they made no money on me. cant imagine how they are paying their attorney fees because of your stupid accusations. non of your facts are straight. all of there teachers are accredited. The food is better than good. and most of the time awesome. cant please everyone. They sincerely care. why dont you listen or read what is being said. you want to think one thing and one thing only. it has been said before but you are such bad people. hope you dont get hit by a car tonight. i hate to think where youll end up with all the wrong you terrible people are doing to something as good as the Whitmore or the Sudweeks. hi Elliot. you are so right to stand up. im sure everyone loves you. i think you know that. when i start thinking like that or quilt trippen, i just remember what Cheryl used to tell us all the time. "to love someone is to see them as God intended" We all make mistakes. you gotto get up and get back on the right track. i am proud of you.
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On 2005-03-13 16:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"that brings up my big problem. why do you guys keep complaining about. 40 grand,
Well, the major complaint with the money is that the parents are not getting what Whitmore advertises. Who are the therapists at Whitmore? What are their qualifications? You're the first one that I've seen post stating that they got their diploma. Others have stated that they received little education, mostly self paced books. Who are the teachers there?
why do you keep LYING about these people. is it all about the money. well hello, maybe you should pay the going rate of 80,000. put it to pencil how much do you think it takes to run a place like they offer? get real. I know they made no money on me. cant imagine how they are paying their attorney fees because of your stupid accusations.
I don't think Mark and Cheryl are in this for the money. I've stated before that I think they actually believe in what they're doing. They think the end justifies the means. And from what I've seen posted about Cheryl (one from a former friend that apparently knew her for 20 years) she's very much into the control aspect of the program. What's all this we keep hearing about having group until the early morning hours because Cheryl can't sleep? We hear about how the mood of the house is dictated by Cheryl's moods. All of these things that we keep hearing from multiple people is wayyyyyyyyy too much like the programs we've seen before. It can't be that much of a coincidence. There IS a common thread here in the methodology of all of this. Explain what "having group on someone" is to me. That's smacks exactly of what we went through in Straight from what I've heard.
Once again, dialogue is the key here. You said in another post that we all need to stop bashing each other. Great! I agree. So, a dialogue seems like a good way for both of us to learn a little more about each others opinions.
They sincerely care. why dont you listen or read what is being said. you want to think one thing and one thing only.
We are[/b] listening. We're listening to you and all the others and things are not adding up. That's why we're asking you questions.
it has been said before but you are such bad people. hope you dont get hit by a car tonight. i hate to think where youll end up with all the wrong you terrible people are doing to something as good as the Whitmore or the Sudweeks.
Now that kind of statement is part of what I'm talking about. Not exactly the Christian values I would expect that you would be taught there.
Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
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On 2005-03-13 16:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"imagine what cheryl could tell us about what zita confided in her?
Well, some of your friends are saying that she DID tell you about what Zita said. Not exactly the confidentiality you would expect.The people's right to change what does not work is one of the greatest
principles in our system of government
--Richard M. Nixon
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Our daughter was never enrolled in 3 programs.
Whitmore Academy was the ONLY "Private Boarding School" of any kind she was ever enrolled in.
Again-misrepresentation of the facts. Thankfully, she was only there for 2 months.
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That you, Chris?
I think you're misunderstanding something here. There's no link between anything posted to these forums and any legal expenses. If the Suds have to pay a lawyer for anything, it's because someone either filed a civil suite or criminal complaint. Or, if the story is true, they want to use the legal system pimp slap Leah over horse boarding fees.
In other words, the discussion on this site is no threat to the Suds in any way. It's just talk, that's all.
If this is Chris (or even if it's not) would you mind reading this over and tell me what you think?
http://www.kidsincaptivity.com/zehnder- ... rleen_.pdf (http://www.kidsincaptivity.com/zehnder-report/karleen_.pdf)
How is MJ different or similar to the WWASP program you were in and how is it similar or different from Whitmore?
Applying computer technology is simply finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw.
--Bastard Administrator
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Hi Ginger,
I'm not sure which post you are talking about. The only post I've made in this thread was the original.
As far as Majestic Ranch goes, I think it is quite different from Ivy Ridge. In her statement she mentions students in the parking lot refusing to come back in. At Ivy Ridge such a thing would be near impossible, but if it did happen the staff would just tackle you down and call for backup.
The staff at Ivy Ridge would have absolutely no interest in talking you into coming back in, they'd simply put you back in. I also get the impression that theres a lot more freedom to move around at Majestic Ranch and some of the other WWASP programs. For instance, I've heard from Spring Creek students that they could go to the bathroom in groups of two with their bunk leader. I've also heard that they actually have stalls with doors. I also kind of get the impression that students at some of the other programs were allowed to go outside much more then we could. During my 4 month stay I can recall going outside twice for group. This took place in a courtyard surrounded by fences equipped with lasers for the alarms.
chris
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I'm not sure if I can really compare Majestic Ranch to Whitmore considering i've never been to Majestic Ranch. However, from what I can tell it seems like the program structure is identical to the other WWASP programs.
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Yup, I've heard the same thing about CCM. I wonder how much the threat of getting shipped off to TB or another, tougher facility plays into it. Was that something that was present on your minds at AIR or was it not such a big issue?
Also, I note that MR, like Whitmore and a lot of these programs, puts a very heavy emphasis on the image of good clean country/ranch living. But I've heard the same thing about all of them (Whitmore included) that that's mostly just for show. Reminds me of this sort of humorous presentation I've seen lately
http://www.themeatrix.com/ (http://www.themeatrix.com/)
(only vaguely related, but funny as hell anyway)
Would you say that kids are getting their money's worth wrt equian therapy and training at Whitmore?
Wicked men obey from fear, good men from love.
--Aristotle
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TB and sometimes Casa were always constant fears in my mind. George Tulip (assistant director of ivy ridge) once told me I was going in 3 days. Jay Kay also told me he'd be seeing me soon.
I was actually going to be transfered to TB the week I left. George Tulip showed me my expedia ticket and everything while I was in intervention. The next day my family rep and a few staff members came to get me and brought me to the front doors. I was so happy to leave that I couldn't care less about going to Jamaica. (PLUS I was going to refuse to get on the plane in Atlanta and get the attention of security.) Jason FInlinson told me as I was leaving that I was going to a boot camp in Utah instead. In reality, my mom found out what the place was about, and chose to send me to Whitmore instead. This was because Carl, a current student at Whitmore, called my mom while I was there and told her what was going on. I have since made statements to ISAC (while I was at Whitmore.)
~ Chris
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Honestly, sometimes I felt like the kids were riding horses too often, and working too little on school work.
The only major issue I ever had with Whitmore was in regards to education. They've recently had a complete turn around in regards to schooling. I am happy to see that it is taken as the top priority now.
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That's the only major issue? Cause there are some other things that I find both credible and very troubling.
For example, a couple of kids described a scenareo very familiar to me. When one kid steps out of line, either by breaking a rule or just by pissing off someone in charge, the entire group would be called to grill this one kid for as long as it took to break them down. Some of the details included reading private journals, emails to and from home. Hell, a couple of different kids were said to have gotten group on them for calling or emailing their own families.
Now, I might take that w/ a grain of salt. In fact I did reserve judgement and wait and see what happened. What happened was that the kids who described these things seemed to be perfectly credible while the people who disagreed w/ them went ape shit in just exactly the way they described.
Are you saying that these things don't happen or that they do but you don't have a problem w/ it?
And how do you feel about Mark publishing confidential material about one of the kids? We all saw that, so there's no doubt that it happened. Do you think that's ok? Cause somebody down there has threatened to do the same to anyone who doesn't shut up about the Suds.
Don't let your dogma run out in front of your karma.
--Anonymous
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Personally, I think the group issue is blown out of proportion.
And as far as the Joyce e-mail goes, I don't think its right to publish a private e-mail. I'm not sure if it was the Sudweeks, they'd obviously be the most likely suspect, however there has been lots of computer hacking going on. Joyce, for instance, had her computer hacked. The email could have been pulled from her inbox... Just a thought.
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Nope, it came from that same account in Utah.
What do you mean by blown out of preportion? You mean groups get out of hand or that it's no big deal?
All contemporary religions and churches, all and every kind of religious organization, Marxism has always viewed as organs of bourgeois reaction, serving as a defense of exploitation and the doping of the working-classes.
--Nikolai Lenin, Russian revolutionary
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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The group session DO get out of hand and OFTEN. When a group of kids is told by Cheryl to "get him/her out of here," and that means for a group of kids to take that one kid to a desinated place and beat the hell out of the kid--that is totally out of hand. And it does happen!
And that is suppose to be therapy? Who can say that is OK? Who can say that is not out of hand?
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I've never heard Cheryl say "get him out of here" in group. The whole point of group is to basically grill a kid till he sees the problem. Sending a kid a way like that totally defies the whole point of group.
Chris
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Gotta do something when the kid don't get the program!!!!!! Straighten the kid out! He will get it NEXT time!
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I've read some pretty ugly rumors about some of the Whitmore kids. Much of this stuff absolutely should not be common knowledge among a group of kids like this. See what happens when you do it that way?
Do you thinki it's good and helpful to force kids to discuss very sensitive, personal issues like this in an often hostile group setting like this? That's my question. Are you saying that this is ok?
I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father and inventor
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If a professional group therapy session is in progress: what would ever be the point of a THERAPIST wanting the GROUP to go at one person in the group for an extended period of time until that one person "is broken down?"
What would be the point?
This seems absolutely cruel, and seems to serve no purpose.
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You can brainwash someone without causing a emotional meltdown first.
This *might* explain it.
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Buzzkill: do you mean you must first break them down in order to "brain wash" them? Is that the point, to break them down first?
So this is not even remotely to be considered "therapy" then?
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On 2005-03-16 09:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
So this is not even remotely to be considered "therapy" then?"
Depends on who you ask. The Therapeutic Community treatment model is built on the ideas of Chuck Dederich's Synanon ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... ch+synanon (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Chuck+Dederich+synanon) )
There might even be some sound, basis for the idea of benign therapy through a good, wholesome and well functioning community. But only if the person's involvement is VOLUNTARY! If their involvement is involuntary, as evidently most of these kids involvement initially is, then their resistance must first be broken down.
Come the millennium,
month 12,
in the home of greatest power,
the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
--Nostradamus
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But isn't the RESULTS the big question to consider?
Parents did not send their child to Whitmore to be brainwashed into.....what?
Parents' expectation was therapy to help the child deal with a specific issue the child had-- whatever it may be: I am sure each parent explained the specific problem thier child was having.
No parent sent a kid there to be "broken down and brainwashed" into something the parent doesn't even know about or comprehend.