Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: concerned mother on February 23, 2005, 10:35:00 PM
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I recently visited GT and was trying to decide if it was right for my son. He needs help .... before he throws away his life. If anyone out there has a suggestion other than GT let me know.
Thanks :???: :???: As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
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Hi Concerned Mom,
Sorry your son is having trouble. I know it's VERY stressful for the whole family.
I don't know of any other specific treatment options, so I don't have another one to recommend to you.
I will tell you that I completed the LIFE program (which GT was formed from) back in the 80's, and felt it did me a world of good. No, I wasn't happy to be there (don't know anyone who is happy that they need counseling or treatment) but I am VERY glad my parents helped me out back when I was 16, now.
Most of the posters on this site will tell you GT is awful, torturous, etc. I do not not share their opinions.
Good luck to you and your son.
Kim
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http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/2004- ... ure_1.html (http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/2004-12-09/news/feature_1.html)
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Hello concerned mom - I understand your feelings. I am a father of a 24 year old son; I am also a survivor of straight inc. My son was a wild child all through his teen age years. He did many many things I disagreed with. I'm not going to go into this in great length, but let's say my son was an extreme challenge. This being said, I never thought of placing my son in a behavior modification program. There are a many reasons for this. The first is and most obvious is, while they are effective, (ie they modify behavior), they are not, (repeat are not) theraputic at all. The long term impacts and unintended consequences from his time in GT or any behavior mod will not be want you or he will ever want to experience.
Our son is doing quite well now. Enrolled in college, living on his own, great girfriend, paying his own way and making for the most part, wise and thoughtful decisions. My advice to you is to take the path my wife and I chose. Keep it in the home. We kept him home and worked as a family to deal with the issues at hand. It was hard as hell sometimes, even scary, but we kept him at home. We did not farm out our parental responsibilities to someone else. We had family meetings, counseling, etc....but the most obvious reason my son is doing better with himself, is he is growing up. He is becoming a man. He amazingly has the values that we tried to instill in him as a young child. He is growing up. Which is what happens to all of us. If smoking drugs and being defiant or whatever your son's problem is, for the most part, he will probably grow up and out of that behavior. Many of us acted as children when we were children, and we didn't end up dead, insane or in jail, as predicted by the parents/program people.
Please, do not send him away. As a former straightling and now survivor, and as a parent, I am asking you, for your family's sake, don't send him away, keep him at home. [ This Message was edited by: kpickle39 on 2005-02-24 04:27 ]
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Hi Concerned Mother,
Do not let anyone make this decision for you. It is no one else's child but yours. The people on this board offer a great deal of wisdon and experience from programs that GT has spawned from (ie THE Seed, STRAIGHT,LIFE etc...). Many of the practices that were utilized in these programs are also utilized in GT, however I think modified somewhat. Knowing what I know about such programs, I believe that GT is a kinder and more gentle place based on my own experience. My Daughter has been at GT for sometime now and I believe she has benefited greatly from her experience. Do I agree with all of their tactics...no. But if you ask me if I think that they played a part in saving my Daughter's life, the answer is yes, without a doubt.
I respect the opinions of the people who post here frequently and maybe they will offer their wisdom and experience to you as well as some interesting reading. Again, I must emphasize that this decision is yours and yours alone (as well as your spouse). Get the facts and make up your own mind. My experience has been very good. Everyone is different. It is important to get both sides of the story and then make your decision.
Whatever it is you decide I wish you the best. I understand your frustration and fear. Good luck to you.[ This Message was edited by: DC on 2005-02-24 07:03 ]
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Concerned Mom I would not recommend that you send him into this program. My parents thought I was throwing my life away as well and I was sent away to one of these programs for 2 years. Sure my behavior changed temporarily and that was only because I was afraid of suffering severe consequences. The tactics that were used on me and fellow group members were mentallly and emotionally abusive. Many people in our society believe the ends justifies the means when it comes to drug treatment. In other words whatever it takes to get the job done. Unfortunatley when they were "breaking me down to build me back up" I was not able to fully recover from the things they did to break me down.
I know this father DC believes he made the right decision, but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface.
One big clue that something is wrong with these programs is the constant changing of the names. When it gets to hot in the kitchen these programs pretend to close down, only to change names. GT, Life,Straight,The Seed, KHK, and Pathways are all derivatives of one single program.
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Anon...You forgot to mention Kim.
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" but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface."
Correction: the majority of people ON THIS SITE still have problems even today. I am one of the ones who didnt like going through the program(life) but it helped and worked for me...i appreciated my family and everything i had soo much while in and after i 7th stepped. It was definately a good thing for me and my family. :grin:
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On 2005-02-24 16:15:00, dbucfan wrote:
"" but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface."
Correction: the majority of people ON THIS SITE still have problems even today. I am one of the ones who didnt like going through the program(life) but it helped and worked for me...i appreciated my family and everything i had soo much while in and after i 7th stepped. It was definately a good thing for me and my family. :grin:
"
IMPORTANT point. Majority of people ON THIS SITE. Please note that. (Good call dbuc)
As for the programs having different names, um, it's a legality thing with ANY business. You can't take a name that's already there, unless it's a chain.
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Concerned Mom,
Go to Who Am I Discover-Whitmore and read a few of the postings there.
This was suppose to be one of the good schools too!
Don't send your son anywhere.
Keep him home, get a good therapist, and then you will never be in our position---having your child home, pressing abuse charges---and having to look your son in the eye, and trying to explain WHY.
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The first thing I would advise is that you read the New Times article that was posted earlier, and also look at http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.html) and
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html#gt (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html#gt)
Here's some good reading on what to watch out for when considering "treatment" for your kid:
http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html)
Yeah, I know it's all the same source, but ISAC is pretty much a compendium of factual information on these places. You'll see that in GTs documentation.
Also check out http://www.thestraights.com (http://www.thestraights.com). While it focuses mainly on Straight, Inc., the players are the same.
Everything I've had to say is well documented, and posted throughout these fora by myself and many others, so there's no need to repeat. The bottom line is true "addiction" rarely exists in teens and most all are just experimenting and giving the finger to control - happy authority figures. When they fall on their face a few times, they get sick of smashing their acne - blemished little noses, and eventually grow out of it.
And before you go off thinking that the dissidents of these programs are still living in their parent's basements, and hitting off a bong as they post their grievances, you should know that a good many of us are well adjusted, objective and successful.
Bottom line - your kid's "problems" can be treated at home or, if need be, between home and a professional mental health practioner - not by a bunch of kids screaming at them in an effort to break them down, and calling it "Positive Peer Pressure".
There's nothing positive about screaming at a teen girl that she's a "druggie whore", or that a teen guy is "worthless piece of shit".
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And you could also read these:
3 Teens Overdose on Cough Medicine:
http://www.marionstar.com/news/stories/ ... 12963.html (http://www.marionstar.com/news/stories/20041231/localnews/1812963.html)
Teen dies after huffing:
http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw1 ... 041019.htm (http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw105888_20041019.htm)
Image of pot being harmless changing:
http://www.wokr13.tv/news/local/story.a ... BD82204393 (http://www.wokr13.tv/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=6846DCE5-3A1C-4CC2-8391-8BBD82204393)
Teens road from meth:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 202176.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/06/MN202176.DTL)
Teen drinking:
http://sciencentral.com/articles/view.p ... =218392404 (http://sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392404)
We could do this all day long. Thing is, I believe you have probaly done ALL you can for your son by this point, at home, and nothing is working. It's easy to say "keep him home", etc, and he'll be fine. But he's BEEN home, and obviously it's gotten to a point that it is BEYOND your control, and that's how you ended up at GT. I'm sure he didn't get a bad grade, and you ran over to check out a teen program. There's probably QUITE a mess of stuff he's done or is doing.
You don't have to escort him to GT, but it IS an option. Why not ask the staff there to speak to graduates or their parents (with no staff present).
This IS your child's life. I would find it hard to sit on it, and HOPE for the best.
I hope you've maybe found another interenet site to get input from too. Coming to this site to ask if this program is right for your son, is like going to an anti-homosexual site to ask if homosexuality os ok?!?
My best to you and your son. What kind of stuff is he up too? Drug use is merely a "symptom" of an emotional, behavioral, pyschological issue.
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Wow, isnt this interesting? We have an ANONMYOUS fear-mongerer. Lemme excuse everyone from listening to me go into a diatribe about how stupid that bag-head is and how stupid it is to try to manipualte people through fear instead of try to communicate and think rationally, and how ego-reduction via methods such as fear are common tactics of programs and program supports, and just call it a FUCKING MORON.
Now, Sara here was actually PUT in this fucking program a while ago becuase her mom was, well, an ass, and wanted her gone for reasons I'm not at liberty to discuss. She had great grades, wasnt a bad kid, etc, and they still gave her the same 'treatment' of degredation, attempted coercive (forced) behavior modification (brainwashing, and if you know shit about this subject or psychology, I DARE you to try to spin and P.C. it as something else, I fucking DARE YOU) and general maltreatment and discomfort. Then there was the program family she had to stay with, that had stupid rules about toilet paper. Nothing like feeling filthy all day to CHANGE THAT FROWN UPSIDE!
Yeah, Sure, you'll make them be positive, perfect little *PERKY* stepford children wtih degredation and skidmarks. COME ON.
Now, Sara brought up ISAC CORP and the warning signs of of abusive/problematic schools and programs. There is *NO* Excuse for any program or school to be found to do anything that list says is bad, PERIOD. Its supposed to be supportive and helpful, not isolation in a prison with interrogation-techniques used to break into their mind like a hacker getting into a computer to mess around with the inside of it.
Furthermore, NONE, NONE, FUCKING NONE of these supporters can explain AT ALL how the programs even fucking work! I made a HUGE, BIG ASS LOOOOOOONG Thread in "Teen help industry" called "How about some damn answers" here: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7573&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7573&forum=9)
And if you read ALL FOURTY PLUS PAGES OF IT, you'll see how they still cant pull even the slightest reasoning or explanation for it. Oh, and guess what else happened?
Chi3 came to her senses and pulled her kid OUT of the program her kid was in. You should see how she and her child reacted when they did that. Chi3 is regretful for ever putting her daughter in there, and is now tired of her daughter opening up and telling her more about the TRUTH of the stupid camp.
Sara is right, there is no reason for abduction or (escort) to a 'program' thats just an isolation prison (yes its a prison, period, there is no process to evaulate the necessity or helpfulness of such extreme isolation and captivity for the kids going in, so its not a mental hospital; furthermore they keep everyone in there just as isolated as the next kid, so yeah...) which relies on extreme psychological and mental attack upon a child to make them break down and accept whatever you want them to regurgitate after they get out, and austere, pleasureless, supportless, emotionally and socially sterile environments consisting of little more than doing as told and living in fear and being CONSTANTLY obedient from fear of punishment and not being able to read, develop or grow in ways essential to children, and being prevented from proper hygene.
I'd first say, Find out for SURE, from a PROFESSIONAL, if there even IS a problem first, THEN, I'd look into other methods of treatment. Also, you could just do it the way Ginger (Antigen on this website, and RFornit on AIM) handled her kids - without anyone but herself.
Programs ARE a last resort, and a good one would only take a child who simply couldnt be helped anywhere else, but theyd operate totally unlike how a 'program' operates now. Parental involvement and trust would be essential, not a feeling of helplessness and having to act like a damn slave and accept blame for everything and be a submissive humble little child-slave, and then *snap* turn into a self motivated, independant and autonomous adult at 18, 21, or whatever the random integer of adulthood of the moment is after living as a pet-child in their teen years.
You've given us such a vague, general statement of your son needing help "before he throws his life away" that its USELESS. UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY USELESS. Without specifics and FACTS we cant differentiate you from a troll, or just some idiot/psycho mother who wants to be a control freak or dump her kid in a program and live it up while junior is "sent away",
Evaluate what problem he has, if any, and get actual therapy in the home or in a day program, and look into what the school system can do to help. Get an IEP.
And... get a clue. You obviously dont have one at all. This INDUSTRY, yeah, thats right, BUSINESS or keeping kids in the programs really doesnt give a flip either way about you or your son, they just want him (and your money) in their program. And if all they spit out is children who REALLY DONT WANT TO GO BACK THERE, they're gonna act juuust perfect and *YOUR* problem will be over.
Trying to find a actually helpful, therapeutic program in this sea of sharks who just want to make a buck (or god knows what else, look at thayer and CEDU...) is difficult if not impossible. Theres simply no need for such an extremely austere living condition and punishment, isolation, and captivity. Even IF there is real therapy with that, living that way is going to really screw up a kid. Plus, being not able to develop social skills and relationships and having the privacy all adolescents need is going to stunt their development later in life.
Not only are these programs notorious for being penny-pinchers and rationing toiletpaper, they time their cold showers or have constant supervision in them, and in toilets, and while sleeping, and someone made a thread a long time ago about how WWASPS punishes masturbating!
You dont want that for your child. At least I hope not, if you did you'd be unfit to be a mother. And the thing is, if you DO put your kid in a program that right off the bat makes you sign disclaimers and say that your child will "lie to get out of the program", and thus tell you ANY POSSIBLE BAD THING IS A LIE, FROM THE START, FOR EVERY CHILD, is OBVIOUSLY HIDING SOMETHING. Connect the dots!
Read up on http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org), or read my article at http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens (http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens)
And to the fear-mongering dumbfuck baghead, guess what? CRIME AND DRUG USE FOR TEENS HAS BEEN GOING DOWN FOR THE PAST 10-15 YEARS! GET A FUCKING CLUE YOU ASSHOLE! THE ONLY THING ON THE RISE IS STUPIDITY, FEAR, MISINFORMATION, AND PROFITS.
[end rant]
I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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We could do this all day long. Thing is, I believe you have probaly done ALL you can for your son by this point, at home, and nothing is working. It's easy to say "keep him home", etc, and he'll be fine. But he's BEEN home, and obviously it's gotten to a point that it is BEYOND your control, and that's how you ended up at GT. I'm sure he didn't get a bad grade, and you ran over to check out a teen program. There's probably QUITE a mess of stuff he's done or is doing.
You believe this, huh? You live in the house with them? Fact is, you don't know what's up with the kid, and neither do I. Also, is it right to throw a kid in a program simply because he doesn't share his family values? For instance, there was a story on here a long time ago about a kid that got thrown into a program because he was an activist for anarchy. You're going to tell me that's okay too?
This "I just don't like the way he/she is acting" should never be the only criteria for sending your kid away. And I will say it again, maybe you'll get it this time:
IF YOUR KID HAS A DEFINABLE PROBLEM LOOK INTO AN APPROPRIATE PROFESSIONAL WHO DEALS IN THAT PARTICULAR PROBLEM
Christ, people.. you don't go to a oncologist for cancer treatment when you have a sniffle, do you?
This is what you're doing to your kids. Then 20 years later, they wonder what happened to their hair.
You don't have to escort him to GT, but it IS an option. Why not ask the staff there to speak to graduates or their parents (with no staff present).
This IS your child's life. I would find it hard to sit on it, and HOPE for the best.
I hope you've maybe found another interenet site to get input from too. Coming to this site to ask if this program is right for your son, is like going to an anti-homosexual site to ask if homosexuality os ok?!?
My best to you and your son. What kind of stuff is he up too? Drug use is merely a "symptom" of an emotional, behavioral, pyschological issue.
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Oh yes, why don't you send a card, "Wishing you the best with your kidnapping?"
If you want to believe that it is only here that you will find opponents to these Synanon style programs and camps, think again.
I have a document here from the International Society of Psychiatric - Mental Health Nurses. I'll find out if Ginger can post it if I make a PDF out of it, anyway, here are a few nuggets:
1) All children have the right to be treated with dignity and free from mistreatment, abuse, neglect, and
exploitation.
2) ACAPN (which is the American division) opposes the abduction and involuntary transport of children to facilities for confinement
unless such measures have been clinically justified in specific, operational terms by a licensed mental
health professional with the legal authority to do so. In the event that such tactics are necessary for the immediate protection of the child and/or society, the child must have access to an appeal process commensurate with the same right of habeas corpus available to every citizen of the United States of America.
3) Children have the right to appropriate treatment in the least restrictive available setting in the event that treatment is necessary. This setting must be one that provides the highest likelihood for improvement and that is not more restrictive to their physical liberty than is needed for their own protection or for the protection of society.
It goes on to list a bunch of stuff, including their opposition to restricting media, telephone and access to parents.
And to the parent who is asking the question in the first place: I hope Gin will post this paper from a consortium of mental health professionals, then you can read it side by side with the GT documents and make a decision. No one can make you do anything, but you have to live with what you do.
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Oooops... not enough caffeine in the bloodstream this morning.. that was me.
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On 2005-02-24 16:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-02-24 16:15:00, dbucfan wrote:
"" but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface."
Correction: the majority of people ON THIS SITE still have problems even today. I am one of the ones who didnt like going through the program(life) but it helped and worked for me...i appreciated my family and everything i had soo much while in and after i 7th stepped. It was definately a good thing for me and my family. :grin:
"
IMPORTANT point. Majority of people ON THIS SITE. Please note that. (Good call dbuc)
As for the programs having different names, um, it's a legality thing with ANY business. You can't take a name that's already there, unless it's a chain."
Not true, they change names once they start having too many investigations and lawsuits! KHK is still Straight. Same building. Pathways is still Straight. Different building, but same staff from Straight.
As far as only people that post on this site having problems I would say that is untrue as well. I know plenty of people that don't post here that are scarred from these places.
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On 2005-02-24 16:15:00, dbucfan wrote:
"" but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface."
Correction: the majority of people ON THIS SITE still have problems even today. I am one of the ones who didnt like going through the program(life) but it helped and worked for me...i appreciated my family and everything i had soo much while in and after i 7th stepped. It was definately a good thing for me and my family. :grin:
"
Why must kids be stripped of their rights to gain appreciation for their family? Should I starve myself to gain my appreciation for food as well?
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On 2005-02-23 19:35:00, concerned mother wrote:
"I recently visited GT and was trying to decide if it was right for my son. He needs help .... before he throws away his life. If anyone out there has a suggestion other than GT let me know.
Thanks :???: :???: As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
"
This is very vague. What specific behaviors are you concerned about? All you've said is that you're worried he'll throw his life away and that you'd like to see him realize his full potential. I can't tell you how many times I've worried about those very things in my own children who are now 17 and 19, but there's a wide spectrum there. Sometimes I was worried because of something as serious as drug abuse, others it was just that grades were shitty and they were "seriously" dating real losers. What has prompted you to seek a solution that involves placing him somewhere? What are the alternatives you've either tried or researched?To be an atheist requires strength of mind and goodness of heart found in not one of a thousand.
--Samuel Taylor Coleridge, English poet, critic, journalist, philosopher
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Not true, they change names once they start having too many investigations and lawsuits! KHK is still Straight. Same building. Pathways is still Straight. Different building, but same staff from Straight.
As far as only people that post on this site having problems I would say that is untrue as well. I know plenty of people that don't post here that are scarred from these places."
[/quote]
Can you please inform me on law suits with LIFE Inc.?
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On 2005-02-24 18:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
" And you could also read these:
...
The trouble w/ all the fear mongering has much to do w/ the hypocrites who are pushing it.
The perception of marijuana as a dangerous drug is diminishing because the people who are answering the surveys these days actually know something about it. Damned near everyone who's grown up since the `60's has used it and known plenty of other people who have used it either a lot or a little and we've seen the actual effects and results.
Now, you sit a 13yo kid down and start lecturing them on how dangerous all drugs are and he's likely to get bored and irritated with you. So how do we respond? Why, we slap some bogous diagnosis on him and try and force him to take powerful amphetamines in order to "cure" his attention deficite "disorder". Hello! The kid's not disordered! You're just boring! Deal with it!
The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system.
--Thomas Paine, American revolutionary
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nyo
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how stupid that bag-head is
:wstupid:
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A group of licensed medical professional's stance on child and adolescent "treatment"
http://www.ispn-psych.org/docs/99childrens-rights.pdf (http://www.ispn-psych.org/docs/99childrens-rights.pdf)
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Can you please inform me on law suits with LIFE Inc.?"
I wasn't aware of any suits against LIFE. Anyone?
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On 2005-02-25 08:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-02-24 16:15:00, dbucfan wrote:
"" but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface."
Correction: the majority of people ON THIS SITE still have problems even today. I am one of the ones who didnt like going through the program(life) but it helped and worked for me...i appreciated my family and everything i had soo much while in and after i 7th stepped. It was definately a good thing for me and my family. :grin:
"
Why must kids be stripped of their rights to gain appreciation for their family? Should I starve myself to gain my appreciation for food as well?"
in my case i am alive and happy because i never appreciated the things i had and thought that being a fuck-up was the way to go...i went through... learned a lot about myself...and i am one happy SOB. it worked for me...but i must add that i was never abused or felt like me missing TV and phone or privacy was the end of th world...so i cant speak for the abused folks.
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On 2005-02-25 08:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-02-24 16:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-02-24 16:15:00, dbucfan wrote:
"" but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface."
Correction: the majority of people ON THIS SITE still have problems even today. I am one of the ones who didnt like going through the program(life) but it helped and worked for me...i appreciated my family and everything i had soo much while in and after i 7th stepped. It was definately a good thing for me and my family. :grin:
"
IMPORTANT point. Majority of people ON THIS SITE. Please note that. (Good call dbuc)
As for the programs having different names, um, it's a legality thing with ANY business. You can't take a name that's already there, unless it's a chain."
Not true, they change names once they start having too many investigations and lawsuits! KHK is still Straight. Same building. Pathways is still Straight. Different building, but same staff from Straight.
As far as only people that post on this site having problems I would say that is untrue as well. I know plenty of people that don't post here that are scarred from these places."
but how can anyone speak for the majority of people who went through programs...do you KNOW the majority of people who went through programs? :???:
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Sorry the above two were me!
D.
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in my case i am alive and happy because i never appreciated the things i had and thought that being a fuck-up was the way to go...i went through... learned a lot about myself...and i am one happy SOB. it worked for me...but i must add that i was never abused or felt like me missing TV and phone or privacy was the end of th world...so i cant speak for the abused folks."
How old were you went in? How do you explain the kids that did the same things you did (mouthing off at your parents, etc), and grew up and found themselves without a program?
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SO I posted articles about REAL teen deaths involving drug use. HOW exactly is that worse than the "fear-mongering" of the articles posted about these ABUSIVE and awful programs?? Isn't that what YOU'RE doing, trying to get this mom to RESIST going to GT for help???
Kids at public school are sometime touched inappropriately by teachers/facility, or yelled at, ect. ... should we CLOSE down the schools?!?
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On 2005-02-25 20:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
" SO I posted articles about REAL teen deaths involving drug use. HOW exactly is that worse than the "fear-mongering" of the articles posted about these ABUSIVE and awful programs??
Most kids who's parents are freaking out over their (the parents') loss of control of them (the kids) are over-reacting. They easily fall prey to any charismatic salesman who offer some bogus cure. And, unless they happen to know someone who's been through this type of 'treatment', they never get the other side of the story.
The treatment, in this case, seems to be a lot more dangerous than typical teen rebellion, even when it involves drugs; even when the drugs involved are illegal. So damned many suicides, so damned many lifelong substance abuse and other psyche problems among program graduates. So few among our "olddruggiefriends".
If we don't tell them, who will? You? Hell no! You refuse to even look at the evidence yourself!
"NO" is just one word; not enough information there. If your kid won't believe you when you tell them that opiates are addictive or that meth is very dangerous, it's too late for you. You've already lost your credibility. It's not too late for them, though. Just check carefully any proffered "cure" for your problem. Don't assume that, just because they talk a good talk, they're any better than heroin. Often times, they're not.
It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
--Arthur C. Clarke, author
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On 2005-02-25 19:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
but how can anyone speak for the majority of people who went through programs...do you KNOW the majority of people who went through programs?
I can probably say that I've heard from at least a near majority of people who went through programs AND a) are still alive and b) have taken an interest in the internet.
The Program was at least a significant, usually a major influence on nearly everyone I've heard from. If they have net access and use it for anything at all more than as the 21st century answer to the VCR, at some point they get curious and google their own personal childhood gulag.
Of those, very very few speak favorably of the experience. Even those who are tea totalers, even those who are active and entheusiastic AA memebers and supporters, generally view their Program experience and it's impact on their lives as having been harmful.
Just look around here, check out http://fornits.com/anonanon/ (http://fornits.com/anonanon/) (I try to list all resources as I find them) and follow links from those links. I couldn't possibly control all that content and all those people even if I were a control freak. It's real. Virtually all of the net sites that speak favorably of these programs are either commercial sites w/ a vested interest or government sites w/ a vested interest. All the freelancers--people w/ no incentive but the (perverse? perhaps.) urge to vent come down on the side against coercive rehab.When we talk to god, it's prayer. When god talks to us, it's schizophrenia.
--Lily Tomlin, American actress
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
On 2005-02-25 20:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
" SO I posted articles about REAL teen deaths involving drug use. HOW exactly is that worse than the "fear-mongering" of the articles posted about these ABUSIVE and awful programs?? Isn't that what YOU'RE doing, trying to get this mom to RESIST going to GT for help???
Kids at public school are sometime touched inappropriately by teachers/facility, or yelled at, ect. ... should we CLOSE down the schools?!?"
Usually, the offender who touches a kid inappropriately at school gets a criminal trial, and at the very least, is forbidden to teach or work with children.
This didn't happen in the programs. The best thing people could hope for was a civil suit, IF they were lucky enough or (unlucky enough, when you consider the torture they went through to get it to trial) to get one filed.
I don't know who else had to pay the piper besides Newton, but I know someone who was swung around by their hair by Queen Petermann herself, and she's never had to answer for it. Why? Because at the time of the complaint "This is just another rotten kid looking for attention", and 20 some-odd years later, he still wakes up in the night yelling.
As far as fear mongering is concerned, I agree with Ginger. Do you show a kid who's learning how to drive how many people died in car wrecks last week? Inundate them with car wreck death reading material? No, usually we hand kids of age the keys and a little caution, and a little primer on how to check the tires and hope for the best.
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Thank you Ginger. A voice of reason.
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On 2005-02-25 16:54:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
Can you please inform me on law suits with LIFE Inc.?"
I wasn't aware of any suits against LIFE. Anyone?
"
Yes there were several law suits against LIFE. Noboby talks about this because it was kept so far under the carpet. I think the only people that woould have much information on this would be the higher staff such as Peggy, Wendy West, Sammy Blanco, Cherie Miller or Ms. Pete herself. Maybe we can get one of them to post about this or just about thier feelings for GT today. Good luck...
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Anybody who's in the area can go down to the courthouse and ask about searching the court archives. They'll charge you something for the search and something for each page that you want printed out. Also, you can contact the local papers and do the same thing there. It's usually not too, too expensive. I think I paid Broward County $35 for the search and $1 or $2 per printed page and I had to do the search on microfisch myself. Miami Herald charged me $135, I think, for the search and around 20 articles, some of them spanning a few pages.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
--Thomas Jefferson
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On 2005-02-26 11:35:00, Antigen wrote:
"Anybody who's in the area can go down to the courthouse and ask about searching the court archives. They'll charge you something for the search and something for each page that you want printed out. Also, you can contact the local papers and do the same thing there. It's usually not too, too expensive. I think I paid Broward County $35 for the search and $1 or $2 per printed page and I had to do the search on microfisch myself. Miami Herald charged me $135, I think, for the search and around 20 articles, some of them spanning a few pages.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
--Thomas Jefferson
"
Actually anyone can search the official records from anywhere:
http://www.sarasotaclerk.com (http://www.sarasotaclerk.com) -- go to "Online services" then "Official Records"
also, you can search statewide official records at: http://www.myfloridacounty.com (http://www.myfloridacounty.com)
I tried earlier, but both sites were down for maintenance. What timing! :grin:
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Wow, this is some more great information. We should all celebrate, what do you say. Come on everyone, lets have a song! :smile: ! :smile: !
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On 2005-02-26 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wow, this is some more great information. We should all celebrate, what do you say. Come on everyone, lets have a song! :smile: ! :smile: !"
Ok, but I'm not motivating for it. I suggest "Isolation" by Beth Hart, or "You're with Stupid Now" by Aimee Mann... or maybe "All Over Now" :grin:
Lyrics:
Isolation: http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Beth-H ... ation.html (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Beth-Hart/Isolation.html)
You're With Stupid: http://lyrics.net.ua/song/89319 (http://lyrics.net.ua/song/89319)
(Also see "Sugarcoated" and "It's Not Safe")
All over now: http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Aimee- ... r-Now.html (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Aimee-Mann/All-Over-Now.html)
And turn on those popup blockers... lyrics sites SUCK these days!
_________________
"I was a long time coming
I'll be a long time gone
you've got your whole life to do something
and that's not very long"
- Ani DiFranco[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-26 16:06 ]
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Alright, you don't have to motivate, but I think we should set the mood by starting off with The Rose.
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On 2005-02-26 16:08:00, Let's Have A Song! wrote:
"Alright, you don't have to motivate, but I think we should set the mood by starting off with The Rose."
Why don't we keep the mood here focused, and move any more songs to Frod's forum, mmmkay?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=33#79556 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8064&forum=33#79556)
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darren here...so i am an anomoly. kinda neat! :grin:
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On 2005-02-26 19:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"darren here...so i am an anomoly. kinda neat! :grin: "
Right, Darren... it's all about you.
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On 2005-02-26 11:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-02-25 16:54:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
Can you please inform me on law suits with LIFE Inc.?"
I wasn't aware of any suits against LIFE. Anyone?
"
Yes there were several law suits against LIFE. Noboby talks about this because it was kept so far under the carpet. I think the only people that woould have much information on this would be the higher staff such as Peggy, Wendy West, Sammy Blanco, Cherie Miller or Ms. Pete herself. Maybe we can get one of them to post about this or just about thier feelings for GT today. Good luck..."
SEVERAL law suits, you say? Please clue us in. You must know something if you stated this.
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On 2005-02-26 15:49:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
On 2005-02-26 11:35:00, Antigen wrote:
"Anybody who's in the area can go down to the courthouse and ask about searching the court archives. They'll charge you something for the search and something for each page that you want printed out. Also, you can contact the local papers and do the same thing there. It's usually not too, too expensive. I think I paid Broward County $35 for the search and $1 or $2 per printed page and I had to do the search on microfisch myself. Miami Herald charged me $135, I think, for the search and around 20 articles, some of them spanning a few pages.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
--Thomas Jefferson
"
Actually anyone can search the official records from anywhere:
http://www.sarasotaclerk.com (http://www.sarasotaclerk.com) -- go to "Online services" then "Official Records"
also, you can search statewide official records at: http://www.myfloridacounty.com (http://www.myfloridacounty.com)
I tried earlier, but both sites were down for maintenance. What timing! :grin:"
I'm afraid your info. is old. Clerk of Court records were taken OFF internet sites at least a year ago. You DO have to GO to the Records office to get that info.
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On 2005-02-26 20:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-02-26 15:49:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
On 2005-02-26 11:35:00, Antigen wrote:
"Anybody who's in the area can go down to the courthouse and ask about searching the court archives. They'll charge you something for the search and something for each page that you want printed out. Also, you can contact the local papers and do the same thing there. It's usually not too, too expensive. I think I paid Broward County $35 for the search and $1 or $2 per printed page and I had to do the search on microfisch myself. Miami Herald charged me $135, I think, for the search and around 20 articles, some of them spanning a few pages.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
--Thomas Jefferson
"
Actually anyone can search the official records from anywhere:
http://www.sarasotaclerk.com (http://www.sarasotaclerk.com) -- go to "Online services" then "Official Records"
also, you can search statewide official records at: http://www.myfloridacounty.com (http://www.myfloridacounty.com)
I tried earlier, but both sites were down for maintenance. What timing! :grin:"
I'm afraid your info. is old. Clerk of Court records were taken OFF internet sites at least a year ago. You DO have to GO to the Records office to get that info."
All official records are available and viewable as of this past Friday. Dockets, Family-related and military related were taken offline over a year ago. Official records are still viewable as long as they're not family court related.
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On 2005-02-26 20:31:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
On 2005-02-26 19:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"darren here...so i am an anomoly. kinda neat! :grin: "
Right, Darren... it's all about you."
no...but you would have us believe that no program can be successful.Hey i'm not blowing smoke up your ass sweety. Some of us were not bent by a program.
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no...but you would have us believe that no program can be successful.Hey i'm not blowing smoke up your ass sweety. Some of us were not bent by a program."
Worked for you, that's all that matters, right?
Yeah, you're not blowing sunshine up my ass - where I come from, that's an patronizing compliment. So thank you for not patronizing me, at least. :grin:
(Edited for sloppy quoting, and an apostrophe)
_________________
"I was a long time coming
I'll be a long time gone
you've got your whole life to do something
and that's not very long"
- Ani DiFranco
-
Hey i'm not blowing smoke up your ass sweety. Some of us were not bent by a program."
N/m... quoted above
_________________
"You will not control me
With your failed philosophies... "
- Beth Hart[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-26 22:48 ]
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it worked :grin:
_________________
"The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the foe, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they'd all flown in the last war..."
- The Who[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-26 23:05 ]
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Arthur C. Clarke was a druggie.
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On 2005-02-27 03:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Arthur C. Clarke was a druggie."
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On 2005-02-27 04:21:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
On 2005-02-27 03:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Arthur C. Clarke was a druggie."
"
Are you sure it wasn't just an exhibition of "druggie behavior"? :grin:
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Sara,why did you edit the quote from Arthur C. Clarke you included in your post and replace it with one from The Who AFTER I wrote that Clarke was a druggie?
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On 2005-02-27 05:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sara,why did you edit the quote from Arthur C. Clarke you included in your post and replace it with one from The Who AFTER I wrote that Clarke was a druggie?
"
Actually, I changed my quote last night. Today however, I hit the wrong button and sent the "say it" prematureley, and didn't realize I was duplicating later on. Sorry![ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-27 06:03 ]
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On 2005-02-27 05:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sara,why did you edit the quote from Arthur C. Clarke you included in your post and replace it with one from The Who AFTER I wrote that Clarke was a druggie?
"
Kinda blows the argument about all "druggies" (damn, I HATE that term) being unsuccessful losers, huh?
You forgot to bitch about him being an atheist too. :lol:
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yes, most of my heros are druggies. Like Sara. When I grow up I want to be just like her.
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OK you freemason muthurs I've got your asses finally nailed. :smokin:
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On 2005-02-28 05:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
yes, most of my heros are druggies. Like Sara. When I grow up I want to be just like her."
Well, you don't know much, but I'm flattered all the same.
:wink:
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On 2005-02-28 16:49:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
On 2005-02-28 05:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
yes, most of my heros are druggies. Like Sara. When I grow up I want to be just like her."
Well, you don't know much, but I'm flattered all the same.
:grin:
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Oh, I know I don't know much. You know ALL. Oh, to be like Sara. You are so almighty. Thank you for gracing us with your presence and wealth of knowledge here. :grin: "
Well, that just proves my point. You don't know shit about me. :grin:
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On 2005-02-28 19:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-02-28 16:49:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
On 2005-02-28 05:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
yes, most of my heros are druggies. Like Sara. When I grow up I want to be just like her."
Well, you don't know much, but I'm flattered all the same.
::cheers:: :wink: They know that it is human nature to take up causes whereby a man may oppress his neighbor, no matter how unjustly. ... Hence they have had no trouble in finding men who would preach the damnability and heresy of the new doctrine from the very pulpit.
--Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer
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Hey! I was just thinkin' the same thing!! All hail Sara ::cheers:: ::cheers:: Cheers, Cayo! Glad I'm not powerless over this stuff - I'd not be able to lift the glass! :rofl:
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I'm a single parent with a 15 year old son who does whatever he wants, and I called one of these numbers and then I researched. It doesn't matter what they call themselves--anything listed under wwasps is to be avoided.
I can't handle my son. That's a fact, and his father is who knows where. Last year I sent my son to a military school in NY (alma mater of Donald Trump) and it was great, and next year he's going back. It was 60 miles away and he could come home every weekend (a few exceptions--parades, etc.) starting from the first week. He could use the phone and the internet between 8-9:30. My whole thing was that I couldn't keep him in school. He's very smart, but they could get him to class most days. Was it perfect? No. But what the kids told me and what the tack officers said were the same negatives. The kids fight. There are some incidents of hazing. There have been 2 severe incidents in the past 100 years (1912 and 2003)but no one died. There's the boys will be boys attitude, and at military school they do fight all the time, and a lot of them smoke cigarettes, and there are ways to get alcohol and drugs on campus though it's nothing like suburban environs. But I knew what was going on, the tacks knew what was going on, and the kids knew--and there was no conflict in stories. That sounds negative, but trust me--it's a lot less than is going on in suburbia.
But here's the thing--which I realized after calling one of these numbers. I have an obligation to get him educated to the best of my ability. I don't have the right to imprison him and have him tortured. The doors at the military academy were left open and kids were free to walk out the door ANY TIME. And sometimes they did. But mostly they didn't because there were kids who left or got kicked out and ended up in boot camps or wwasps and no one ever heard from them again (I found this out after a discussion with my son last night--he just had a friend go to boarding school and NONE of her friends have heard from her. No calls, no IM's. But if you choose military academy --make sure it says founded before 1860. No new place.
My son also drinks and I know it, but guess what? He's either experimenting or he's an alcoholic. If he's experimenting--then just leave it alone and keep him from riding with someone or driving under the influence (another plus for military school--no cars.) If he's an alcoholic (as his father was) there's nothing I can do about it. You can't make anyone quit drinking unless they want to quit. Period. The same goes for using drugs.
I have many alcoholics in my family and the only way any of them every quit was AA. Forget forced rehab, too. If you can't tolerate the behavior in the house, let him try the homeless shelter. I am not in a state that can force kids into wwasps and boot camps, but juvenile detention is better than these places. And so is a foster home. Tough love is about not putting yourself between kids' decisions and the natural consequences. Some derelect school that's way worse than Attica is insanity.
Is your child at risk? No doubt. I know mine is and I want to minimize the risk as much as possible and if he ends up in foster care because I can't keep him in school--then so be it. I have to be willing to look like a bad parent. Maybe I am a bad parent but I think I'm more of an overwhelmed parent. But investigating these crazy programs reminded me I am powerless over alcohol and there by the grace of God.
But I believe what these kids are saying on these board. Kids ALWAYS let you know what's going on in a school. Sure occasionally there is a rare incident or someone who cries wolf--but this many? No way. God bless.
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and avoid ANY school or program with the word Christian in it--that's the guarantee it's anything but...also check alumni list. stay away for "for profits" and check endowments.
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All official records are available and viewable as of this past Friday. Dockets, Family-related and military related were taken offline over a year ago. Official records are still viewable as long as they're not family court related.
"
you can also try searching on lexisnexis.com or westlaw.com and pay on a per-search basis. if you find dockets and court records that you want to print out, they will charge you either on a per-page or per-docket basis to view and print the files, depending on what the particular jurisdiction charges.
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Equestrienne, might I suggest that you choose a sexy avatar that better suits your name?
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568.gif would be very nice.. ::nod::
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http://community.middlebury.edu/~mobrien/covers/ (http://community.middlebury.edu/~mobrien/covers/)
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I appreciate your reply and that of others. It has been a month or so and the situation has only worsened. He has skipped school and slacked off so much in school (had straight F's last period)that he will be spending another year in 9th grade. Definitely not the end of the world, but moving him one year closer to being able to drop out. There is not a sane person out there that can tell me that life without a high school, let alone college, diploma is as beneficial as one with it. In addition, his world of drugs has expanded ten-fold. He is adding more and more to what he will do. Today he's angry because I took he cell phone away and he is threatening to try 8 bars. He's depressed which is a system of drug addiction. Do you think that this is still experimenting? He has no regards for our family. It's hard to keep it at home when he only comes home to sleep at night. For a while he was doing ok in an outpatient program that is designed to educate him on the dangers and help him to change his lifestyle, but that slipped when he was introduced to bars.
I weight the possibility that he may not hit 20 with the fact that you are alive and drug free after your stint and I wonder if your emotional wounds are worse than the end of life itself.Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
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How about a mental health professional that deals with behavioral and addiction problems? i think you are best off going with someone who has years of schooling and clinical experience dealing with "problem kids." your son is an individual and deserves to be treated as one - and to be treated by someone that will put time and energy into finding out who he is and will work with his/her accumulated knowledge to design and implement proper treatment for him.
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Tough Love is the best treatment available for chemical dependency. Those so-called "mental health professionals" are a waste of time and money. They do nothing but mollycoddle these ingrates when what they need is a swift kick in the pants to get them off of their asses and off of drugs! They need to wake up to the fact that they are chemically dependent and accept the group as their higher power!
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Very well said, Fucky! :wstupid:
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Thank you, Virgil.
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><><<><><><><><><><><><><
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On 2005-04-07 06:40:00, concerned mother wrote:
"I appreciate your reply and that of others. It has been a month or so and the situation has only worsened. He has skipped school and slacked off so much in school (had straight F's last period)that he will be spending another year in 9th grade. Definitely not the end of the world, but moving him one year closer to being able to drop out. There is not a sane person out there that can tell me that life without a high school, let alone college, diploma is as beneficial as one with it. In addition, his world of drugs has expanded ten-fold. He is adding more and more to what he will do. Today he's angry because I took he cell phone away and he is threatening to try 8 bars. He's depressed which is a system of drug addiction. Do you think that this is still experimenting? He has no regards for our family. It's hard to keep it at home when he only comes home to sleep at night. For a while he was doing ok in an outpatient program that is designed to educate him on the dangers and help him to change his lifestyle, but that slipped when he was introduced to bars.
I weight the possibility that he may not hit 20 with the fact that you are alive and drug free after your stint and I wonder if your emotional wounds are worse than the end of life itself.Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
"
Hi Concerned Mom,
Just wondered how you and your son are doing, and what, if anything you decided to do for help for him?
I hope that you've been able to find something to help and feel like things are moving in a better direction for him and your family.
Signed a program participant who wasn't abused, brainwashed, or tortured... but someone who benefited from some structure and guidelines.
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Hi Concerned Mom,
Just wondered how you and your son are doing, and what, if anything you decided to do for help for him?
I hope that you've been able to find something to help and feel like things are moving in a better direction for him and your family.
Signed a program participant who wasn't abused, brainwashed, or tortured... but someone who benefited from some structure and guidelines."
Darren? I've missed you!
Sorry I haven't been able to post, I've been locked up for a while - possession of a new job, forced to spend the last few months traveling. :smile:
Concerned Mom, I've read your posts, and I don't know if you're still checking back, but here goes:
There is nothing a program can do for your kid that you can't. Nothing. The only difference is that when your kid comes thru your training (let's call it), they're still your kid and not some indoctrinated shell of a human with some pieces missing.
Kids go thru shit - no doubt. But subjecting them to torture and brainwashing doesn't solve the problem, it only fills in uncertainty with pre-recorded crap that doesn't pertain to the real world at all.
I do hope you've made a good decision at this point.
Sara-come-lately.
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On 2005-05-22 08:02:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
Hi Concerned Mom,
Just wondered how you and your son are doing, and what, if anything you decided to do for help for him?
I hope that you've been able to find something to help and feel like things are moving in a better direction for him and your family.
Signed a program participant who wasn't abused, brainwashed, or tortured... but someone who benefited from some structure and guidelines."
Darren? I've missed you!
Sorry I haven't been able to post, I've been locked up for a while - possession of a new job, forced to spend the last few months traveling. :smile:
Concerned Mom, I've read your posts, and I don't know if you're still checking back, but here goes:
There is nothing a program can do for your kid that you can't. Nothing. The only difference is that when your kid comes thru your training (let's call it), they're still your kid and not some indoctrinated shell of a human with some pieces missing.
Kids go thru shit - no doubt. But subjecting them to torture and brainwashing doesn't solve the problem, it only fills in uncertainty with pre-recorded crap that doesn't pertain to the real world at all.
I do hope you've made a good decision at this point.
Sara-come-lately.
"
damn I thought we were rid of you and your brainless posts for good.
well, it was nice while it lasted. can't you go "travel" some more? please? :wink:
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damn I thought we were rid of you and your brainless posts for good.
well, it was nice while it lasted. can't you go "travel" some more? please? :wstupid:
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Not mine babe...
I have learned my lesson Sarah...I will only post when i am signed in...i learned that from being impersonated by a few infants on the board...anyway, i have missed you too and our spirited conversations. but i do tend to agree with what anonymous said (as you know) and i really dont feel like an "indoctrinated shell of a human with some pieces missing" but hey...you know the program and me more than even I do.
good luck with the job thing. :grin:
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On 2005-05-24 18:06:00, dbucfan wrote:
"Not mine babe...
I have learned my lesson Sarah...I will only post when i am signed in...i learned that from being impersonated by a few infants on the board...anyway, i have missed you too and our spirited conversations. but i do tend to agree with what anonymous said (as you know) and i really dont feel like an "indoctrinated shell of a human with some pieces missing" but hey...you know the program and me more than even I do.
good luck with the job thing. :grin: "
It doesn't bother you at all that your parents gave up their responsibility to properly parent you to a group of uneducated kids?
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On 2005-05-25 19:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-05-24 18:06:00, dbucfan wrote:
"Not mine babe...
I have learned my lesson Sarah...I will only post when i am signed in...i learned that from being impersonated by a few infants on the board...anyway, i have missed you too and our spirited conversations. but i do tend to agree with what anonymous said (as you know) and i really dont feel like an "indoctrinated shell of a human with some pieces missing" but hey...you know the program and me more than even I do.
good luck with the job thing. :rofl:
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On 2005-05-24 18:06:00, dbucfan wrote:
"Not mine babe...
I have learned my lesson Sarah...I will only post when i am signed in...i learned that from being impersonated by a few infants on the board...anyway, i have missed you too and our spirited conversations. but i do tend to agree with what anonymous said (as you know) and i really dont feel like an "indoctrinated shell of a human with some pieces missing" but hey...you know the program and me more than even I do.
good luck with the job thing. :grin: "
Yeah Darren, it has been a long time.
Just tell me something. How can you pledge allegiance to a program - put you and your situation aside for a minute - that willfully ignores big fat red flags that a "client" may not be a "druggie". How do you just let it slide? How do you revere an institution that may have helped a few, such as yourself, but disrupted the lives of many who did not belong there?
I could go into what I've dealt with in the past year in trying to help the person that threw me into that hellhole in the first place. The money spent, the time wasted... it doesn't matter - because it helped YOU, and YOU are all that matters, right? Your life, your kids, your little deed restricted community, right?
Don't you ever wonder why drunken, drug addicted parents could have their kids locked up without a question asked? Does that not disturb you?
Well that's what went on, friend. I'm not the only one, just the one with the big mouth.
Cheers!
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sara i dont think i know you, but i always like what you have to say. u and i would get along great, you tend to say what it is that im thinking especialy when i comes to dealing with darren.
peace, jay
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On 2005-06-20 15:15:00, rez1990 wrote:
"sara i dont think i know you, but i always like what you have to say. u and i would get along great, you tend to say what it is that im thinking especialy when i comes to dealing with darren.
peace, jay"
Ah, another great mind! :wink:
You probably wouldn't know me - I was in and out in '84 - before they built the "rez". The host homes were bad enough, but then they had to make it an honest-to-diety prison, didn't they?
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Sara
I'm another one that the program helped.
As for those who weren't "druggies", didn't really matter as drugs weren't the focus. Attitude, communication, and learning to make better decisions was. ANYONE COULD have benefitted from their time there, IF they chose to.
As for alcoholic, or drug using parents? I remember at least a couple parents who were confronted for drinking while their child was in the program, and later were let go from the program when the use continued. That was a no no for parents too, so if your mom was using you wouldn't have stayed in the program much longer either.
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On 2005-06-20 19:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
" Sara
I'm another one that the program helped.
As for those who weren't "druggies", didn't really matter as drugs weren't the focus. Attitude, communication, and learning to make better decisions was. ANYONE COULD have benefitted from their time there, IF they chose to.
Well, I don't buy it, and I don't see how anyone can, particularly when the first question you're asked is "What's your drug list", and the whole focus WAS on drugs. They never asked about "depressed friends" or "anorexic friends" or stashes of junk food you intended to binge on. The only word heard day after day was "drugs" or "druggie". Except when they focused on sex, then the buzzword was "twisted". You gotta wonder why they were so focused on "twisted" sex.
And what if your problem was child abuse? Why was it never asked if there was abuse in the home?
As for alcoholic, or drug using parents? I remember at least a couple parents who were confronted for drinking while their child was in the program, and later were let go from the program when the use continued. That was a no no for parents too, so if your mom was using you wouldn't have stayed in the program much longer either. "
I remember Petermann smelling booze in an open meeting once - but didn't know where it was coming from. I did :smile: Funny, after I left the place, someone was on the phone every day for two weeks trying to get me to come back. So the logic follows that they weren't really good at figuring out who the drunken parents were.
Makes you wonder how they figured out who the druggie kids were.
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First to reply to sara, you are right the focus seemed to be drugs. I myself was not a "druggie" but was brought in by my mother who is a high end bi-polar currently splitting her time between costal recovery and jail. Funny that the highly trained staff could not see through her F.O.S. behavior. Long story short (to late i know)I was a run away not a druggie but because looney toon mom told mrs.pete that i was i sat on 1st phase for 3 months because i would not talk about my druggie past. Finally i made up drug using stories based on things i heard from the other lifers and finally began to phase. When I reached fith 10 months later i bolted and did not look back, well untill the popo caught up with me.
On a lighter side, anyone who was in during the early 90's remeber a 6 phaser who came to group high on mushroom's that was a hoot. let's not be angry with each other, for we all share something in comman which the average joe cant comprehend. just agree to disagree and move on, trying to remember the friends we made. Then if we have any spare time burn down the place,Ha!
I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HAVE ANOTHER REUNION FOR THE LIFERS, I HAVE MISSED THE OTHER ONES CAUSE I NEVER KNEW ABOUT THIS WEB SITE. SO ANY ONE INTERESTED LETS GET SOMETHING GOING, MABE IT WILL HELP US HEAL.
SARA YOUR STILL MY FAV. :nworthy:
PEACE, JAY.
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Jay
when were you in?
I heard that there will be another reunion for Life.
kim
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Kim,
I was in from feb 1990 to dec 1992.
It would be great to see everyone. :grin:
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howz your son now?
did you put him in GT?
does he wake up at night now screaming?
is every relationship a problem now?
is he drinking and doing more drugs than before the 'program'?
well, i hope not, but that's really what happens to nine outta ten.