Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Tony Stark on December 01, 2004, 08:37:00 AM
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Anybody ever heard that song by Emerson, Lake and Palmer? It's a great song. You can find it on the "Return of The Manticore" box set. I just want to clear up some of the misconceptions about "Santa Claus" and the "Egyptian" end of year market sales. Of course, the German xmas tree too. One thing I know It's a pagan holiday that's been around for the Scandanavians for a long time. There was a "Saint Nickolas", but that's not "Santa Claus" If you really want to screw up your kids head teach him or her presents, and Santa Claus and The Pagan season in this country is formally called "Yule". It's a Wiccan holiday. Should you celebrate xmas? I guess. I'd much rather have a good meal and be with loved ones than be showered by presents and play the "game" of being thoughtful for one season. Of course the winter does deserve much prayer in the days to come. It is a good thing to celebrate Christ everyday of my life. Does anybody know what I am talking about? How commercialized xmas is? Look at the toys, and the mass media celebrations during xmas. I believe the homeless should have a seat at my xmas feast table. Not just my loved ones.I've spent one xmas at the Salvation Army one year. I was homeless. I ate good. I even came back at lunch time for turkey soup that was superb. If you see Santa Claus ringing the bell outside your mall or wal-mart for the Salvation Army, do them a favor..........give all you can. It goes a long way towards a lot of people. People who are cast out and have no home. Anybody want to run with some of these points? :nworthy: :nworthy:
Who would believe that a democratic government would pursue for eight decades a failed policy that produced tens of millions of victims and trillions of dollars of illicit profits for drug dealers, cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars, increased crime and destroyed inner cities, fostered widespread corruption and violations of human rights - and all with no success in achieving the stated and unattainable objective of a drug free America?
--Milton Friedman, winner of 1976 Nobel Memorial Prize for economic science
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Something to consider re: Salvation Army and Target, this holiday season.
The Salvation Army has been publicly discriminating against gays. This week I wrote Target a letter of support in telling the S.A. to get lost until they apologize. Read the "voucher".
http://www.esoterically.net/log/archives/002333.html (http://www.esoterically.net/log/archives/002333.html)
AND Target has banned the Salvation Army'
Target Stores boot Salvation Army bell ringers off
premises Target stores nationwide have banned the
Salvation Army's red kettle campaign. They have told The Salvation Army's bell ringers, "You're no longer welcome here." Target spokesperson Jennifer Hanson said that allowing the Salvation Army to collect funds as a mission of hope for the hungry, the homebound, and the helpless would violate their 'no solicitation' policy.
Target's new policy is opposite of Wal-Mart, J.C.
Penney's, and Big Lots. They believe the Salvation
Army serves a critical need by offering kindness to families in need.
"Last year, bell ringers raised about $8.8 million
nationally outside Target stores," Major George
Hood, Community Relations Secretary for the
Salvation Army U.S.A. "We're going to lose 112 days of food service for the hungry because of [Target's] decision," Russ Russell, Salvation Army executive director for development told The Detroit News. Because of Target's decision 6,000 people, including children, will be forced to go elsewhere to find help.
Please take this action:
Tell Target that you will be doing your Christmas
shopping elsewhere this year unless they change
their policy:
1. Call Target customer service toll-free at
1-800-440-0680, option 2, then option 2 at the next prompt.
2. Call your local Target store and speak with the
manager. You can find the number in your local phone book, or through their Online Store Locator.
3. Here is additional contact information for
Target:
Target Stores
Chairman Robert J. Ulrich
1000 Nicollet Mall
Minneapolis, MN 55403
(12) 304-6073
Fax: 612-696-3731
Email: [email protected]
4. Finally, please forward this to your family and
friends.
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I recall the song very well.
I believe in father Christmas; I believe in the Israelite -
Hallelujah, Noel -
Be it Heaven or Hell -
The Christmas we get, we deserve.
Don't know that I agree with this - but I too believe in the Israelite.
Christmas and the traditions we have in the celebration of it, are as you suggest, controversial and much debated in the Christian community.
The origins are in fact Pagan; just as are many of the Easter traditions. I personally believe this combining of pagan practice and holidays with Christian Holy days is a result of Charlemagne's desire to have his empire be a Christian one. It was in fact entirely pagan. In my opinion, to help encourage the acceptance of Christianity, many of the Holy days were celebrated at the times the Pagans were accustomed to having celebrations. Also, as long held pagan traditions were not going to be set aside with ease; they were incorporated into the Christian celebrations - Thus we have Christmas trees; and celebrate the Messiah's birth in the winter, instead of the Spring - when it probably, actually took place.
Also, in my opinion, this is where and how the notion of Virgin worship and prayer to saints got its start.
Being a good protestant, I believe this to be idol worship and believe this is something that should never take place. I know the Catholic arguments well; and I disagree. I think once the church became a political entity (with the conversion of Charlemagne) it became corrupt. I believe many false teachings were brought into the church as a result. I think the adoration/whorship of Mary was the result of the church wanting to placate the pagans. I think it was like: You needn't give up the worship of the goddess; you see, we have the mother of God - worship her. I feel the notion one can pray to saints is a result of the same sort of adulteration/corruption of the Faith. It is a false teaching, began by false teachers, in an attempt to give people what they want, instead of what they need. Nothing in scripture supports this practice, and in fact much that is there, condemns it.
Back to Christmas -
Yes, the traditions are of Pagan origin. But they are not now, what they were. They are born again, one might say. :wink:
I do think the holiday is far less Christian than it once was. Certainly many who are not at all Christian celebrate it. And certainly, the Christians who do, often forget the reason for the season. Still, if we as Christians do make an attempt to recall and celebrate the humble birth of the Christ our Lord; I think this is a good thing. Weather or not we put up a tree; or shop till we drop.
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Thank you so much for putting into words what I could only garble out. That is the truth. I saw a movie all about Easter Island and it was about an egg and about idolotry. nNot Christianity at all. Still the feast of Passover by the Jews is celebrated then. The crusifixion of Christ is observed by the Christians also. Thanx.
May the fleas of one thousand llamas infest your armpits
--One ticked off sysadmin
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It's the truth sysadmin. Isis was ousted in the Egyptian mythology.The Roman Catholic church then replaced the goddess with the virgin Mary, just to fit humanity and their sceme of things.
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This is a fact in religion sysadmin, no need saying bad things about the truth. Why even get caugh up in an Episcapal house of cards either. It was just formed to allow a Kng of England t obtain a divorce.
It is criminal to steal a purse. It is daring to steal a fortune. It is a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases
--Schiller (1759-1805)
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This is a fact in religion sysadmin, no need saying bad things about the truth. Why even get caugh up in an Episcapal house of cards either. It was just formed to allow a Kng of England t obtain a divorce.
The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist
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And just to make market profits. What's with the German xmas tree? When was that introduced, and what's that got to do with xmas?
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I don't have a fucking clue? Could somebody else eleberate on that before I don't celebrate xmas again this year? :smokin:
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
George Washington
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According to scripture Jesus can not to send peace. The Lord God is a God of War. Even an Islamic knows the Jew have their revelation but ignore "Their Shepard", and Christ's spirit and seek to receive the humanist, and a secular government. Not one of Mankind.
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Yeah I know....The Greeks and Israelites still even sacrifice Lambs to his day. Where is "The Prince of Peace"? Why are we at war all the time? I dunno. But Islam is some tpe of polytheism with a selected diety to be chosen as one god. One Pagan god."Allah" I'd rather die than submit to Allah, but where's Christ? :smokin:
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.
-- A. Whitney Brown
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I don't know about the present day Greeks - but the Jews do not at the present time, have animal sacrifice - because they do not at this time have a temple.
And as a Christian, I would argue the final sacrifice for all man kind was the crucifixion, when the Lamb of God was slain.
(see Isaiah 53; Psalm 22)
Yeshua Ha Meshiach is the Prince of Peace. There will be Peace on Earth when He returns.
(see Isaiah 11)
There is a Peace that passes understanding available to His own even now.
Quote:
A big change happened in my life. As an Israeli, I had seen how my uncles and friends died in the army. Before I knew Y?shua as my Messiah, no Arab could stand next to me without my thinking about doing him harm. But when the time came for me to get baptized, I was actually immersed with a Palestinian who became my friend. I know?pretty amazing, huh? Because of Y?shua, the spikes on this tsabar are gone.
http://www.levitt.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultim ... 4;t=000114 (http://www.levitt.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000114)
Quote:
Jesus transforms people's lives. Because he provides atonement for sin and reconciliation with God, Jesus brings peace, joy, and purpose into people's lives. Apart from faith in him, there is no basis for true peace or direction, for as the psalmist says, "Man is estranged from the womb." That this estrangement is healed by the reconciling ministry of Jesus is the common experience of those who believe in Him.
http://www.levitt.com/ubb/ultimatebb.ph ... 4;t=000084 (http://www.levitt.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000084)
Why all the war and hate and strife on Earth now? Because men are in rebellion against God and are often motivated by evil.
"In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." John 16:33 :grin:
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-12-02 12:39 ]
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Thank you for your ministry but, Israel is establishing borders right now. Just like in the book of "Malachi", and the sacrificial lamb I am seeking is the Man-child that was devoured by a dragon and was caught up unto God and His throne and will rule the nations with a Rod of Iron and will make "All things New.I'm talking about the marriage supper of the Lamb. I'm not protestant or Catholic, but I've understanding from my tribulations and there is the birth of Christ that mystifies me. If the anti-Christ
who according to the last book is named "Mark" is on the planet then when will we all see our new redeemer. Check out the book of Issiah over the scriptuure concerning the virgin birth. There is also another King in that passage who we're not even allowed to know about. The son of Man. It's all in scripture, but there are no truths to the media and I consider it all freedom propaganda that gives you nothing but lust for freedom, if you look to the churches they are not houses of worship. I worship God within myself. Please share more. I am interested. My body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit and I am a born-again maturing Christian like yourself. I just don't trust American churches. Or CEO Hit men who do things, and hide behind religion. We are saved by grace, but when we do something wrong and we repent. Often one will not fall for the same in again. Love covers a multitude of sins, and we are in a state of grace I believe, but People are killing in the name of a God. Jesus just came to give us a sword. Not peace. The Messiah is yet for me to be found and I don'tn know if I'll ever find HIM in my lifetime or not. It is written that we will desire nothing in HIM when we first see HIM. We're going backwards religiously and turning from the old way. I'm not saying these are the last days but watch Israel and when the temple is rebuilt there are a number of years before the prince of this world appears and it's then I will have to go back to the streets. I'm not going to take no Mark on my forehead just to do trade, or worship the guy. I'm talking about the "Babylonian Empire" Where the "son of perdition" rules from Rome, the city of seven hills. This is my dreaded fate to be beheaded, or to flee. It's going to be back to all this so called like "Ceaser worship" again. I'm an evangelical and was baptized "United Brethren" so maybe that's why I think of these things. I get my insight from CTN,and oter books and commentaries and still A man swears on a book to run a country and it says plainly in the book not to swear by anything in heaven or on earth. Why don't they just swear in Presidents like they do serviceman?He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
James Burgh 1774
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I have to tell you, I have a little trouble following your train of thought. I do think you might want to read Revelations a little more carefully. I think you have misunderstood some things.
Couple interesting things about the letters to the churches - they follow the trends found in church history. Also, they describe attitudes, strengths and failings found in individual Christians. Have you heard the Christian Lament "I've been living in Laodicea"?
The dragon of Revelations (Satan) does not devoir the child - but just wishes he could.
And I know it may seem odd, but the title the Son of Man, and The Son of God, refer to one and the same - Christ Jesus. I'm not sure if you are clear on that.
We are not told the name the Beast will have. We are told the number of his name. Useful info for those wise enough to figure it out. We are told all those living will be required to bear on their hand or head, the number of his name, or his mark - not that his name is Mark.
We are told the Temple will be rebuilt - and so it shall.
We are told the Beast will march into it and proclaim himself god. And so he shall.
The Jews are warned to flee to the hills when this happens - to go and not look back.(Matthew 24;15) God has promised to protect them that do.
(I believe this is the woman of Rev 12; the Jews who flee)
I am one of those who believe we will be gone when this happens (attending the wedding feast you mention) but there will be others who come to Christ after this; and they will be the Tribulation Saints.
Like you, I distrust "organized" religion - and yet we are told not to abandon the gathering together of the saints - or what you might call church.
I think the important thing is to read The Book for yourself. See for yourself what it says and do your best to live accordingly.
Its important not to let someone take you and convince you of something just quoting a verse here an there. You can developed a very twisted and incorrect theology that way. Don't read a verse at a time - read a chapter; a book at a time; and think about what it is saying in whole, and not just in part.
But you might want to slow down and read a bit more carefully.
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Indeed my nowledge of most of the Holy Bible that was once my family bible, and was stolen from us has lost my memory. I do remember that I should not even discuss any of what I read in the family bible to anyone Until Christ Jesus is raised from the dead. But fateful as my mind slips me at times because of brain damage, I was baptized as an evangelical. I guess I'll follow your advice and just get a brand new bible like my old family bible. I've never seen one in anyone else's possession like it. I know it's a sin to make a show of religion, but thank you for your discussion. I'll still stay clear of the xmas shows and the CTN false prophets and the doom-sayers, bu I do believe in the old and new testaments as read as merely prophetic. Not the loss of God in so many individuals.Syntax, I found in reading the bible was so mportant when I began my studies. Things aren't understood by intellect, but through the Holy Spirit whicj indwells us believers in Christ Jesus. I still won't be celebrating xmas this year again though. It's all way too commercialized and very contrary to what the Spirit tells me. Doesn't make me a Jew and that I should celebrate gamblng and gift giving for days. I just feel the Greek Orthodox Church websites have helped me understand more than the cults in America. Ever been to purgatory? There's a place down there that straightened my head out but good and cleansed me of venial sin. Some people think you have to go to purgatory before heaven........well there's a place down there that's a paradise and a place down there that is sheer Hell, and I'm never going to attemp suicide over the truth and the fact I had no real insight to change and repentance. I died. But I came back and was in a coma and God has shown His face unto me late one evening while I was keeping night watch over an ACLF and it wasn't what I had expected at all. My God, The Lord is not like any of us. Speaking of what the Lord has revealed to me was Himself. I just don't know why me? I'm just a seeker. I've had a lot of set-backs. I guess that's how He makes us understand. What I don't know is why I don't fit in anywhere in this country. I get along well with the chinese. I've had plenty of Chinese student keypals online and we just talk of culture. Not religion, or polotics or sex. It's much more invitations I've had to come and teach over there, than I've had to pay a toll on a bill here in the USA. I used to man the radio Tapai at night and wait for some kind of democracy to take shape in Asia. I found I could do more help by merely talking about being an American. Also, one not honored in this country at all by anyone. Even my own kinfolk. They all think I am nuts. So does the VA. and all my countryman. Thank you Buzzkill.
The Christian God can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, evil and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed, beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. The are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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You must get yourself a new Bible - absolutly!
I am sorry you lost your family Bible; but you must get a new one. I'd be happy to send you one if you would allow me to. You can write me at [email protected]
Sounds like you've come through some hard times.
I'll remember you in Prayer.
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Thank you friend. I hope you have yourself a very good holiday.
Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light and leading by contrast.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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Sysyadmin, did you know Mark Twain was as delusional and schizophrenic as you are?
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Oh them? They don't have any idea of what reality is. Pity their philosophied disgrace. The only thing they see in the Bible is their own Personal loss of God in their lives. Let 'em bitch. They're freemason dogs. Totally without.
If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb
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On 2004-12-02 18:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sysyadmin, did you know Mark Twain was as delusional and schizophrenic as you are?"
So I guess John Adams, Albert Einstein etc were all delusional and schizophrenic as well, huh?
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
-John Adams, U.S. President
But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.
-John Adams, U.S. President
Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
-Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author
Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits.
-Dan Barker, author and former evangelist
Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
Arthur C. Clarke, author
I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism.
-Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
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There seems to be a lot of the 'God said it, I believe it, that settles it' kind of mindset here. How sad.
Fear believes--courage doubts. Fear falls up the earth and prays--- courage stands erect and thinks. Fear is barbarism---courage is civilization. Fear believes in witchcraft, devils and ghosts. Fear is religion, courage is science.
-Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
We are the only species that is aware of our own mortality. That's a frightening load to be saddled with. How much easier is it to go through life believing that there is an all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful father figure up there looking out for us and who will take care of us after we die. Comforting thought but born out of fear. I liken it to the people who believed that Thor was sitting up on his cloud throwing lightening bolts down at the poor mortals because they angered him in some way. They didn't know what lightening and thunder were, it was scary. With Thor they felt like they had some sort of control over their fate. If they behaved and didn't anger Thor then he wouldn't throw the bolts. If they did, he would. See any similarities???
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All these people you are quoting are you? Don't you have a mind of your own and can't use your own brain? You are brainwashed my sick friend.
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I really can't believe all the fuss over the simple fact people celebrate xmas and want to steal it's true meaning in this "society". This place called Fornits' where all the dogs play and the swine trample. I'm glad not everybody here is like the moderators, because they must feel they are just running out of time, and have no faith in Jesus Christ.
Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author
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I'm not a moderator but you got the part about no faith in Jesus Christ right.
And for the anon who says I don't have a mind of my own, I posted those in response to the idiot who said that Samuel Clemmons was schizophrenic because he didn't buy into the religion bullshit. I've stated my own opinions in my own language here many, many times. Apparently you haven't bothered to actually READ what was written. Selective memory.....seems to run rampant in religions.
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On 2004-12-03 10:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All these people you are quoting are you? Don't you have a mind of your own and can't use your own brain? You are brainwashed my sick friend."
Did you not see my original thought after the Ingersoll quote???? :roll: :roll: Guess not, so just for you here it is again:
We are the only species that is aware of our own mortality. That's a frightening load to be saddled with. How much easier is it to go through life believing that there is an all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful father figure up there looking out for us and who will take care of us after we die. Comforting thought but born out of fear. I liken it to the people who believed that Thor was sitting up on his cloud throwing lightening bolts down at the poor mortals because they angered him in some way. They didn't know what lightening and thunder were, it was scary. With Thor they felt like they had some sort of control over their fate. If they behaved and didn't anger Thor then he wouldn't throw the bolts. If they did, he would. See any similarities???
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Let's say there once lived a man. This man was a good man. Worked hard, paid his debts, took care of his family, was kind to animals and children, tried to make the world a better place when and where he could, owned up to his shortcomings and tried to correct them, apologized and made resitution to those he felt he had harmed along life's way, saw the simple beauty in life and nature. In general a good guy who lived a good life. If this good man lived this good life and tried to right wrongs be they his or those he saw but did NOT believe in a 'GOD' of any kind then what is to become of this good man in the eyes of religion? Because this good man believes in himself and his fellow humans and nature and the basics of right and wrong but does NOT subscribe to the belief in a supernatural being then this good man, in the eyes of pretty much every religion, is a sinner and not one of the 'chosen' people. That's just wrong any way you slice it.
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What roller do you expect to answer your question?
Look anon atheists - its fine if you don't believe. Fine with me, I mean. I don't want to argue with you about it.
Why does it so aggravate you, that I and others do believe?
Why do you so often feel the need to quote the founding fathers and Samuel Clemmons and Einstein?
What they had to say can no more sway a Christian, than a Christian quoting Christ, can sway you.
Jefferson and Adams and numerous others, were not Christian; although they allowed the popular masses to believe they were. Common among the secrete societies. They were in fact, high order Masons; And so, they were Luciferians. You will get talk like that from Luciferians.
Being founding fathers of this nation; or otherwise famous persons; doesn't make them correct in all they think , say or do. In my opinion they were simply deluded by the desire for personal power.
I don't know what was up with Samuel Clemmons. I know I have read just as many quotes that indicate a belief and trust in an all powerful God as of his dismissing the idea. Maybe the man was a bit off his rocker. I don't know. Maybe he too, was a Mason.
Einstein came to believe in God. He even felt he had proven the existence of God. But as far as I know, he never really made an attempt to learn anything about the nature of God; or what God's will might be.
Me, I believe what I believe, as firmly as I do, because of Biblical Prophecy. For me, its existence, and absolute accuracy, prove God is; and Prove Jesus is who He says He is. I agree with Peter: Prophecy is like a lamp, shinning in a dark place.
I look at the times we are living in, the miraculous re-birth of the Nation; the re-birth of the Language; the blooming of the dessert; the victory of the people in the face of overwhelming odds; the gathering together of the nations against Jerusalem - So many things - and I see Prophecy happening right before our eyes.
Israel is a miracle. The birth of that nation is a perfect example of something that was considered absolutely impossible, being foretold by the prophets, and happening exactly as they said it would. God said it, and so it happened. The fact it was impossible being no hindrance to God at all.
I believe this will be the case with the many prophecies concerning the second coming. I believe it will be exactly as the Prophets said. The suffering Lamb prophecies all happen exactly as the Prophets told us they would; and the Conquering Lion is on the way - and will return in exactly the manner the prophets describe.
The existence of Israel is a major indicator the day is fast approaching.
Keep in mind, no such nation existed for two thousand years.
Remember, the Hebrew language was dead. No one, any were, spoke it - until the Nation was re-established. First time ever, in the history of the world, a dead language was revived and spoken by a people. First time ever, in the history of the world, a dispersed people retained their national identity. First time ever, in the history of the world, a destroyed and dispersed nation was re-gathered and re-established.
Learned men, reading the Prophecies 60 years ago, said No way they ment what they said. It wasn't possible. God was talking about the establishment of the church or some such thing. The learned men were wrong. God had said he would do all these things and He did them. He will do all the rest just as He said He would.
If you want a list of the related prophecies, just write and ask.
Now - if you don't want to believe any of this - I'm not wanting to try and force you to.
All I'm doing, is explaining some small part of why I believe it.
Quoting Occultist who disagree with me will make no dent in the armor of my faith.
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As I said before, I quoted those in response to someone saying that Mark Twain was schizo because he didn't believe. The reason for the quotes was to ask if they believed also that some of our founding fathers and some very prominent scientists were schizo as well.
Believe what you want to believe. If it helps you get through the day GREAT. We 'atheists' were responding to some of the holier-than-thou posts that have been written here. Why is it that you all can't have a civil, CRITICAL THOUGHT discussion? CRITICAL THOUGHT being the operative words here.
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Blah,Blah Blah..........Why don't you qyote some of these people before they met their Death? "Last famous words" would be greatly appreciated. Leave BuzzKill alone. She's right about what she's saying and she saved my xmas. Just because you can't understand doesn't mean your fools, it just means you've never been tried by God and put to the test. God don't care if you don't believe in Him, He needs a joke every once in a while. After all He made everything in creation. Including mankind. :smokin:
The weavers of linen and hempen cloth, ... may exercise their trades without paying any fine.
-- Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations (chapter X, part II) notes:
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On 2004-12-03 14:00:00, Charlie Brown wrote:
"Blah,Blah Blah..........Why don't you qyote some of these people before they met their Death? "Last famous words" would be greatly appreciated.
I really don't know how to respond to that because I have no idea what you mean.
Leave BuzzKill alone. She's right about what she's saying and she saved my xmas.
Don't have anything against her. I'm glad she saved your xmas.
Just because you can't understand doesn't mean your fools, it just means you've never been tried by God and put to the test.
I never said I didn't understand the Bible and it's teachings. I fully understand them, I just don't buy into it all. YOU can't handle that so you ASSUME that I don't understand or haven't been 'put to the test'. You have no idea about me or my life and whether or not I have been 'tested'. If we don't agree with you then we just don't understand. Just like if a kid "fails" at a program, it's not the fault of the program, it's that the kid wasn't honest enough or humble enough or WHATEVER enough.
I guess this really is pointless because your resonses are exactly what I was talking about (God said it, I believe it, that settles it). You can't possibly listen to critical thinking and reason of any kind with that kind of mentality. I'm not suggesting that you give up believing, that would be ludicrous, I'm just asking for you accept that I might understand all of what you're saying and still disagree with it. Can you do that? Accept it without the qualifiers? Because when you say the things you do "Just because you can't understand doesn't mean your fools, it just means you've never been tried by God and put to the test." you imply that if I would only be tested by God then I would see the light and realize that you've been right all along. That is, essentially, stating that you are absolutely right without question and I just don't get it yet.
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//Why is it that you all can't have a civil, CRITICAL THOUGHT discussion? CRITICAL THOUGHT being the operative words here.//
Anon atheist, I'm sorry if I seemed un-civil. It wasn't my intent.
Critical thought?
I think I can handle it well enough.
I would say, you seem to be the one upset by it; at least when it is not in agreement with your thoughts.
you explain: The reason for the quotes was to ask if they believed also that some of our founding fathers and some very prominent scientists were schizo as well.
OK, fair enough. And I told you what I thought about the Founding Fathers. Isn't that also fair enough?
You write: We 'atheists' were responding to some of the holier-than-thou posts that have been written here.
Define "here." Do you mean the forums in general; or just Charlie Brown's thread on Christmas?
I feel like you are upset and offended by ALL Christian thought, anywhere. Am I wrong?
I feel like you, and maybe other anons (who can tell?) Were annoyed by the subject and felt compelled to jump in with thoughts and quotes you felt would put the Christian's in their place. Their place being (you seem to think) among the ignorant, unthinking, dull minded masses. And then, you seem to want to take offence at my defending my faith with an explanation of why I hold to it. How was anything in that un-civil?
This *is* the Open forum - where we may talk about whatever. So, no reason for you to be so bent out of shape, that the Christians are having a discussion on the subject of Christmas and the Bible.
Personally, I try not to bring the subject up on the other forums Ginger has; because I know it isn't welcome. I have on occasion; when some one else brought up the subject; explained some Christian ideas and theology on the other forums.
But I don't think you can find an occasion where I was less than civil in such cases.
I think this is also you:
I'm just asking for you accept that I might understand all of what you're saying and still disagree with it. Can you do that?
Sure. I think I was very clear on that point.
"its fine if you don't believe. Fine with me, I mean. I don't want to argue with you about it."
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-12-03 14:53 ]
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It's an old testament promise I am keeping my mindset to. A new era promised by he prophets. In the book of Issiah, and Jeramiah, and other books of the apocalypse. I'm not a holier tan thou. Shit, I can't even make it to the toilet or the shower in time before somebody else does before me. Kids are kids. Just baby goats. Parents should take their children to church and they should set a good example and rear their children up to be children of God. Shit, if it means sparing the rod your gonna spoil the child. And they make all kinds of rods. Sometime in their lives they'll come to a crossroad or a crisis and they'll make a decision that will effect their whole life on this planet. And it's not a religious decision. It's a spiritual question. So I should say I don't belong to any church or temple or mosque but I can tell you I've always found refuge in the good book in times of trouble. Now I've gone past it and come to a different level because I'm not childish anymore. I suggest a good sit down with your child and have them baptized with water and then taught the scrpture and teach your child wisdom from the good book. Not from programs. Not from self-help books. Just train them up and then let 'em go when they're ready to fly the nest out into the earth and into the kingdom. Always be there for your child even if he is under trials and forsake him not if he or she is sincere. But don't force things on a grown-up child of yours. Let them come home when they chose. I don't know what else to say..........I don't have all te answrs since I don't know any of you all either. Just remeber kids are kids and they are little monsters. Children are of all ages.
Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception."
Mark Twain, The Mysterious Stranger, 1916, Ch.9
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Buzzkill, I have nothing against you and respect what you have written here. My comments are more directed to Charlie Brown. Sorry for the baghead but I just can't get into another personal war here and every time I come out from under the bag it immediately goes there. I try hard not to engage in the attacks. I admit that the occassional remark comes out but mainly after I've felt it coming towards me.
As I explained, I have no problem with people believing. I"m not trying to make them not believe. I stated my opinion after seeing other do the same. Some of the discussion has been useful, if you pick through the bullshit. I just don't like it when people assume that because I don't believe that it means that I'm just missing something that the other 'enlightened ones' are getting. Again, that implies that they are completely right and I just don't get it yet. THAT'S where a lot of my problem with this lies.
For the record, I do not have a problem with all Christian thought. Quite the contrary. I think there are wonderful lessons to be learned from the Bible. Does that mean I believe it to be true? Absolutely not.
If I've come across as snotty or demeaning to you then I sincerely apologize. Charlie Brown however comes across with that holier than thou shit and sorry, I'm going to respond to that.
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I went back and re-read the thread. As far as I can see this is where the attacks began.
On 2004-12-02 18:25:00, Charlie Brown wrote:
"Oh them? They don't have any idea of what reality is. Pity their philosophied disgrace. The only thing they see in the Bible is their own Personal loss of God in their lives. Let 'em bitch. They're freemason dogs. Totally without.If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb
"
Sysyadmin, did you know Mark Twain was as delusional and schizophrenic as you are?
The problem may be that Charlie thinks that SysAdmin is putting certain quotes after his posts. The quotes pop up randomly. There are quite a few anti=religious (if that's what you want to call them) in there so if he doesn't want them poppin up in his posts, he can simply turn off the quote feature.
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On 2004-12-03 14:53:00, Charlie Brown wrote: Parents should take their children to church and they should set a good example and rear their children up to be children of God.
I suggest a good sit down with your child and have them baptized with water and then taught the scrpture and teach your child wisdom from the good book.
THAT'S what I'm talking about. "Parents should do this..." not 'this is how I would raise my kids'...just "parents SHOULD take their children to church. I know, semantics. But it contributes to how he comes across.
Just remeber kids are kids and they are little monsters. Children are of all ages
I have no idea what[/b] to say to this.
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I think you might be right that the "random" quote feature sometimes causes confussion and offence.
As for some of what is upsetting you - try and not take it so seriously. We all have our personal situations to deal with, and Charlie sometimes has trouble getting his thoughts down clearly. This is an occassion for compassion, not argument.
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Point taken Buzzkill. I'm not as anti-God as I might come across. I don't believe in the same type of a god as you all do, but I have my own spirituality. It's more actual religion that I have a problem with. And people that can't seem to understand the separation of church and state. That really bothers me.