Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Teen Advocates USA on November 28, 2004, 12:54:00 PM
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http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/TonyHaynes.html (http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/TonyHaynes.html)
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Here was another article about the trial and an inappropriate ourtburst from the wife of Chuck Long....
Wife of man accused in camp death shocks courtroom
Michael Kiefer
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 19, 2004 12:00 AM
Like the cliffhanger ending of a TV episode, the murder trial of Buffalo Soldier Charles Long recessed for the Thanksgiving holiday with a shocker.
Over the objections of the prosecutor, Long's wife, Carmelina, blurted out what the victim's mother told her when she learned of her son's death.
"I can't believe he did it," Carmelina Long claimed the mother said. advertisement
"She said he had been trying to kill himself for three years and he finally did it."
The judge overruled the objection and allowed the spontaneous remark.
Charles Long is on trial in Maricopa County Superior Court in the 2001 death of 14-year-old Anthony Haynes, who died of dehydration and complications from nearly drowning while attending Long's desert camp for troubled teens.
Carmelina Long was testifying on the first day of the defense's case, and her statements furthered a portrait of Haynes as a self-destructive and out-of-control child.
Haynes was eating dirt and acting erratically before he collapsed. Long ordered another counselor to take him to a motel room to cool off and shower. At some point between the camp and the motel room, Haynes lost consciousness. He died shortly after being brought back to the camp.
Carmelina Long, who helped her husband in the camp's administration, was at the campsite near Buckeye when Haynes died.
She claimed that Haynes had walked to the pickup truck under his own power and sat in its cab during the ride to the hotel. Other witnesses claimed that Haynes had to be carried to and from the truck and that he rode stretched out in the truck bed.
Although there has been no evidence to suggest Haynes killed himself, jurors gasped at the remark.
"It's just another example of trying to shift responsibility on the part of the defense," Deputy County Attorney Mark Barry said.
Barry will not have the chance to cross-examine Long until the trial resumes Nov. 29.
Earlier in the day, Judge Ronald S. Reinstein re-evaluated the counts against Charles Long. Long is charged with second-degree murder in Haynes' death; aggravated assault for allegedly threatening another camper with a knife; and seven counts of child abuse relating to other children at the camp. Reinstein downgraded the child-abuse counts to lesser felonies.
The time appears to me to have come when it is the duty of all to make their dissent from religion known.
--John Stuart Mill
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It's with the jury as of yesterday--12-14. I pray that justice is done for Tony. Living right here in Phoenix, I cannot believe how scant the news coverage has been.
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Michael Kiefer
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 23, 2004 12:00 AM
After two straight days of jury deadlock, a Maricopa County Superior Court judge suggested on Wednesday that prosecutors amend charges to avoid a mistrial in the murder trial of Buffalo Soldier Charles Long.
Long is charged with second-degree murder in connection with the 2001 death of Anthony Haynes, a troubled youth attending a summer desert survival camp near Buckeye run by Long's America's Buffalo Soldiers Re-Enactors Association.
Judge Ronald S. Reinstein has instructed the jury to also consider the lesser charges of manslaughter and negligent homicide. The jury is deadlocked on the distinctions.
"I think the state could make the decision to eliminate the possibility of the murder second-degree charge and the reckless manslaughter charge or whatever you choose to do, and I think that will legally eliminate the impediment that they have already told us about," Reinstein told attorneys for both sides after dismissing the jury for the week.
Deputy County Attorney Mark L. Barry said that Reinstein's statement was just a suggestion.
Long also faces seven counts of child abuse relating to other teens at the camp and one count of aggravated assault for reportedly threatening a youth with a knife.
He said he remained hopeful as his trial finished its 11th week.
"I'm a praying man," Long said when the court recessed until Dec. 30. "They've got a break now to go through the Christmas holidays. I believe in miracles."
Haynes was sitting in a disciplinary line in the July heat, when he began acting erratically, eating dirt, and possibly hallucinating. A counselor and several youths took him to a hotel and placed him, unconscious, in a shower bath, where he inhaled water.
Then, rather than call for medical help, they took him back to the camp, where he died.
The counselor pleaded guilty to negligent homicide.
The jury, which has been impaneled since Oct. 6, has only reached a verdict on the assault charge, which has not been divulged.
They began deliberating on Dec. 14 and have asked the judge about the penalties for each charge, a consideration that is beyond their responsibility as jurors.
If a mistrial had been declared, and the jury had pronounced Long guilty of the single charge, which carries a mandatory prison sentence, he would have been taken into immediate custody.
The attorneys were philosophical about the jury impasse.
"I appreciate the fact that they're giving it all they've got," Barry said.
Long's defense attorney, JoAnn P. Garcia, agreed.
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Please see link below for breaking news, archives and special reports:
http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/TonyHaynes.html (http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/TonyHaynes.html)
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This is truly one of the most outrageous cases I've read about. I can't believe they want to reduce the charges. They truly allow these people to get away with torture and murder of children.
This is an outrage and must not be tolerated...For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet isn't half bad."
-- Newsweek, 2/27/95
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We need a Teen Liberation Militia. :lol: The authorities don't seem to be able to think clearly when a 'troubled teen' is killed or mamed (physically or emotionally).
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Charles Long can pray all he wants, hopefully the jury will provide the justice he deserves and find him guilty!!
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Deborah - funny you're joking about that.
The more this shit keeps up in this country the more likely it will be that everyone whose being screwed is gonna snap out of it and take care of it themselves.
That would be a bad thing, just more propaganda for the very thing we're trying to stop. :sad: The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism.
--William Osler
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Lawyer suggests mother to blame in boot camp death
Associated Press
Dec. 14, 2004 09:00 AM
The mother of a teenager who died after attending a boot camp for troubled youths is partially to blame, said the lawyer for the camp director on trial for murder.
Joanne Garcia, the lawyer for camp director Charles Franklin Long, said during closing arguments Monday in Mesa that Melanie Hudson failed to mention on enrollment forms that her 14-year-old son had a medical condition requiring him to drink more water and have access to shade.
Hudson's son, Anthony Haynes, died in July 2001 from complications of near drowning and dehydration after he was forced to stand in the sun for hours as discipline and then later was placed in a bathtub of water and left.
America's Buffalo Soldiers Re-Enactors Association camp leader, 59-year-old Long, is on trial for second-degree murder and child abuse.
"You have to wonder where was Mrs. Hudson's responsibility," Garcia said.
But prosecutor Mark Barry said Long was simply trying to shift blame.
Source:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... 14-ON.html (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1214BootCampDeath14-ON.html)
No surprise here .... blame the victim or their parent(s) ... anybody but the program owner and/or operators.
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Good lord, can they get any more creative with their defenses?
Would it matter if they had known? (Given that this is true) If I had a kid talking crazy and eating dirt, he would've been in the hospital as quick as I could get him there. Not a hotel room bathtub. These scum bags are disgusting and pathetic.
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I just love Carmelina Long trying to put the thought of suicide into the jurors heads. Have you ever heard of a kid committing suicide by dehydration? It's ubsurd. No one is dumb enough to believe that Tony Haynes was trying to kill himself by sitting in the sun all afternoon and eating dirt. It just proves how there is no defense for what they did.
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Wow! Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this mother defend the program even after her son's death?
The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind.
--Marquis de Sade, French libertine
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I think Mrs. Long is the wife of the defendant. Not sure though.
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Yes, she is the wife. I just can't get over her blurting out that it was suicide right before the Thanksgiving break, trying to leave that in the jurors minds for the week off. I live in AZ and am surprised there hasn't been more in the paper. Deliberations seem to be going slow.
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The jury just came in with a verdict of guilty to manslaughter and assault.
Not as good a second-degree murder, but does carry mandatory prison time(the assualt charge).
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Great news. Would like to have been present for the trial. Thanks for the report. Please post a link to any articles you come across.
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Sorry don't know how to make this a link, but this is just posted on the AZ Republic website:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0103long-ON.html (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0103long-ON.html)
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http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=34164 (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=34164)
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I was one of the jurors on this case. I am choosing to post this as an anonymous post because I really haven't decided whether or not to talk to the press. I came home today with mixed feelings, and did a search to see what there was out there that I didn't know. I came across this forum, and felt compelled to add a post. While MANY of us would have been happier with a 2nd degree murder conviction, I am just happy we were able to not be a hung jury on this count! Having a mistrial declared on counts 2-9 was horrible! But it only takes one person.... I am glad this is over with, and I hope our verdicts do something to help prevent more of this abuse! The prosecution did a tremendous job. A lot of the articles that are linked from AZCentral don't give an accurate account of what happened in the courtroom.
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?This is wrong,?? said Carmelina Long, after her husband?s conviction. ?They've put an innocent man in jail? All he ever did was dedicate his life to working with kids? He will be vindicated. He's a good man, a soldier for the Lord.''
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:
Soldier for the Lord... makes your skin crawl doesn't it?
And how bout that Hutty... selective memory? Am I reading this right? Hutty was there on vacation with his sons and was in charge of the program participants in Long's absence???
***When Haynes later appeared to go into convulsions, Hutty claimed he went to put a pen in the child's mouth to keep him from swallowing his tongue. "He cracked a smile as if he was just playing around," Hutty told the court.
Might he have been delirious? Guess that possibility never crossed their feeble minds. Not even when the kid was puking dirt and rocks and became nonresponsive? That's just pure ignorance. They should share a jail cell and be march to point of collapse on a daily basis.
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If you had seen (and heard!) Carmelina in the courtroom you would know you shouldn't believe anything she says. She was caught in so many lies it was unreal.
The good thing is I was just able to watch the news (after 3 months!) and was able to see Charles Long being led away in handcuffs. The jury was removed before him, so we didn't get to see him taken into custody.
It's so nice to be able to let some of this out after 3 months of not being able to talk!
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Is anyone else having trouble with the AZ Central link?
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No problem here. I'll copy it here and Ginger can remove it later if she likes.
Boot camp director guilty in teen's death
Michael Kiefer
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 3, 2005 02:50 PM
Charles Long, founder of a summer desert survival camp near Buckeye, was found guilty of reckless manslaughter today in the 2001 death of a 14-year-old camp participant. The jury, which began deliberations on Dec. 14, also convicted him of aggravated assault for threatening another camper with a knife; they were hung on eight counts of child abuse.
?This is wrong,?? said Carmelina Long, after her husband?s conviction. ?They've put an innocent man in jail? All he ever did was dedicate his life to working with kids? He will be vindicated. He's a good man, a soldier for the Lord.''
Each count stems from a different child attending the camp operated by Long?s Buffalo Soldiers Re-Enactors Association. The most serious charge arose from the July 2001 death of Anthony Haynes.
Haynes, who attended the camp, was sitting in a disciplinary line in the July heat when he began acting erratically, eating dirt and possibly hallucinating. A counselor and several youths took him to a hotel and placed him, unconscious, in a shower bath, where he inhaled water.
Then rather than call for medical help, they took him back to the camp, where he died.
Haynes mother, Melanie Hudson, said she was pleased with the jury?s decision. ??What they did is a difficult thing to do. It won?t bring Tony back.? But she added that she was, ?thankful this nightmare is over.?
Jurors struggled to reach a decision on Count 1, the homicide charge, among options ranging from second-degree murder to negligence. They settled on reckless manslaughter.
Myrna Lee, the only panelist to speak with a reporter, said: "There was never any doubt as to the guilt on Count 1, it was the level of guilt."
Long, 59, was accused of telling the counselors to bring Haynes back to the camp rather than taking him to a hospital when he wasn?t responding.
Long maintained the allegations against him were false.
The trial began Oct. 6 before Judge Ronald S. Reinstein of Maricopa County Superior Court and lasted through early December.
Former Maricopa County Chief Medical Examiner Philip Keen testified during the trial that Haynes might have been saved if camp counselors had sought medical attention. But he stopped short of saying that counselors should recognize the symptoms, and ruled the death an accident.
Haynes died of complications from near-drowning and dehydration, Keen said. He also told jurors that one of tje boy's sinus cavities was full of fluid -- symptomatic of drowning -- and his lungs were so full that they were twice their normal weight. Also, his electrolyte levels showed that he had become severely dehydrated over the last hours of his life, he said.
"He probably needs water more than he needs medical attention," Keen said.
However, on questioning from Deputy County Attorney Mark Barry, Keen would not pinpoint a time when Long and his associates should have called for help.
"When he's not responding, we need to do something for him," Keen said.
Among key witnesses who helped painted the pictire of what happened at the camp was Troy Hutty, an adult who attended the tough-love boot camp. Hutty pleaded guilty to negligent homicide in Haynes' death, and was promised a sentence of probation if he testified in Long's trial.
But Hutty, 32, had difficulty remembering many details, and in his testy responses to the prosecutor's questions, reinforced the defense's argument that Long was not with Haynes as he was dying nor when other allegations of abuse took place.
Hutty flew to Phoenix from his home in Pennsylvania to testify. During his testimony, he said that he and his two children attended Long's camp as a vacation and so that his children could learn about Buffalo Soldiers, African-Americans who fought in military campaigns against Mexicans and Native Americans in the late 19th century West. Long's association re-enacts those battles.
Many of the other children, who ranged in age from 7 to 18, had been in trouble with the law or with their families.
Anthony Haynes was an overweight boy taking medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. On July 1, 2001, Hutty said, Haynes began acting erratic while sitting in the sun in a "drop on request" or DOR line, because he wanted to leave the camp.
Hutty claimed that Haynes ate dirt and refused to drink or wash out his mouth with water.
Then Haynes ran around the campsite "screaming and making a bunch of crazy sounds" and doing what Hutty called "Three Stooges antics," striking others, hitting himself in the face and smearing dirt on himself.
When Haynes later appeared to go into convulsions, Hutty claimed he went to put a pen in the child's mouth to keep him from swallowing his tongue.
"He cracked a smile as if he was just playing around," Hutty told the court.
According to Hutty, Long then told Hutty to take Haynes and four other boys to a nearby hotel to shower. They carried Haynes to a pickup truck and placed him in the bed, then carried him up to the room. He was now unresponsive and started vomiting dirt and stones in the room. Hutty and the boys undressed him and placed him in the shower.
When Hutty checked on him, the shower drain had clogged with the vomit, though he claimed that Haynes' face was above water. Then he said he used his foot to put pressure on the boy's stomach to force out more dirt and stones.
He called Long, who told him to bring the boy back to camp.
When he got there, Haynes' pupils were dilated, and Hutty and Long began performing CPR, but Haynes died.
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Thanks :tup:
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Anon Juror,
Were there any other testimonies as to the events that occured the day of his death, other than from those with a vested interest in protecting themselves?
Did any of the four participants who accompanied him to the hotel testify? If so, did their testimony conflict with or support that of the 'defendents'?
How much time lasped between the time when Anthony ate dirt and when they performed CPR?
How long was this boy in that hotel bathtub?
WHY did they have to 'carry' him to the bed of the truck if he was concious enough to be 'just playing around'?
WHY did Hutty and the boys have to undress him?
Wish the media would do a better job with the details.
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Thank you thank you to the anonymous-posting juror! You and the others did a fantastic job.
Many people here were afraid he'd get off *because* of the 2nd degree murder charge--hard because he wasn't physically present when Tony went down. Bless all you jurors for sticking it out for the deliberations and for asking, it seems, all the right questions, including penalties for the various counts, which was above and beyond what your duty as jurors.
While I was writing this, I went out to look at the news so I could see Long led off in cuffs. What I got instead was Carmelina Long saying Tony committed suicide.
Again, thank you and all your fellow jurors for doing a great job to put this killer where he belongs.
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Let me answer these one at a time:
Anon Juror,
Were there any other testimonies as to the events that occured the day of his death, other than from those with a vested interest in protecting themselves?
**Yes, we heard from a lot of the kids that were at the camp, including the 8 other children that were in the DOR line.
Did any of the four participants who accompanied him to the hotel testify? If so, did their testimony conflict with or support that of the 'defendents'? No one testimony supported the defendants! We heard Hutty and two of campers that were 13 at the time of the camp confirm that Long ordered Tony taken to the hotel, and then ordered that 911 not be called and that Tony be brought back to the camp.
How much time lasped between the time when Anthony ate dirt and when they performed CPR? **There was no absolute timeline. No one had a watch (contraband at the camp). As near as a timeline could be established would put the DOR line being formed at around 12 - 1PM. They left for the hotel at 7 PM, Hutty spoke to Long at 8:14 (when he was ordered to "clean him up and bring him back), 911 was called at 9:43 PM!!
How long was this boy in that hotel bathtub? Not long, I can't remeber an absolute time being given. I can tell you he wasn't put in a full tub, he was propped up in the tub and the shower turned on with the drain open. The drain became clogged with feces/mug.
WHY did they have to 'carry' him to the bed of the truck if he was concious enough to be 'just playing around'?
**We heard 14 ( :evil: people say Tony was unconcious. The playing around is just a lie.
WHY did Hutty and the boys have to undress him? **To clean him up.
**The kids hadn't had showers in a week in 110 degree weather. I think Long knew Tony was in trouble, and wanted him clean and in someone elses care (Hutty)
Wish the media would do a better job with the details.
**Think of how frustrating it is for us jurors, who listened to this for 10 weeks and now are reading the reoprts!
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Thank you for your kind words. This is the hardest thing I have ever gone through, and I know my fellow jurors feel the same. We had one juror who had an agenda all her own (refered to Long as "Chuck!!), so I am thankful we were able to accomplish what we did.
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Thanks. That certainly is about what I had imagined. I really resent that Hutty walked. What adult in their right mind would put a kid who was 'UNRESPONSIVE' and vomiting in a bathtub and leave them unattended? There's just no excuse.
The article refered to Hutty as a counselor, yet also stated that he was there on vacation with his kids. What's the deal on that? Was this guy qualified to be in charge of Anthony? Or was this considered 'insignificant' since Hutty wasn't being tried? At the least, should have been another strike against Long for having untrained staff if that was the case.
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This is fantastic news ... justice has indeed been served and I, for one, am extremely grateful the jurors in this case were able to come to a unanimous verdict. God Bless you "anonymous" juror for taking the time to share your thoughts and feelings. I do believe you when you say this was the hardest thing you ever had to go through but I trust you are at peace with your decision to hold Charles Long accountable for the tragic and wholly preventable death of Tony Haynes.
Barbe Stamps
Founder
Teen Advocates USA
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... aynes.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/TonyHaynes.html)
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Hutty is typical of the kind of people Long "hired" to be counselors at the camp. He was a loser who wanted to get out of Philly for the summer and go to a camp with his kids. No application was ever filled out, no references ever checked. His kids got to go to the camp for free if he worked there. His kids were (I think...) 6 and 8. I think the most offensive comment I heard at the trial (and I heard a lot) was when Hutty was asked if he remembered the room number of the hotel. He reply was "No, and it's weird 'cuz I should. I played the room number on the lottery every week for a long time thinking it might bring me luck". Total scum.
Now the next phase of this case will be when the 3 counselors who went abused campers on the Wednesday of camp (when Long wasn't present) go to trial. What they did was horrendous, and I really believe Long ordered that, too.
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***He reply was "No, and it's weird 'cuz I should. I played the room number on the lottery every week for a long time thinking it might bring me luck". Total scum.
What association might he have made with the motel room number where he killed a kid and it bringing him luck? Sadistic Scum. Was he proud of what he did? Did he show any remorse at anytime during the trial?
Here's some interesting reading from Prison Legal News. Scroll down to page 6
http://prisonlegalnews.org/Issues/09pln02.pdf (http://prisonlegalnews.org/Issues/09pln02.pdf)
One young anon sergeant claimed that the kids were kicked, stomped, whipped, deprived of sleep, and 'FORCED TO EAT MUD AS PUNISHMENT' for minor rule infractions. A fellow inmate said, "younger campers were often made to ingest dirt that turned to mud after the sergeants poured water into their mouth."
***So, was this covered in the trial? Was Tony eating dirt because he was delirious or was he actually made to eat dirt as a form of punishment? It is oh so easy to imagine the later and that he resisted allowing them to pour water into his mouth, hence their comment that Tony 'refused' to drink water or wash out his mouth. After ingesting dirt on his own accord, of course!! :roll: :roll:
It was also alledged that the boys were asked that day if they wanted to go home. Tony and others said yes. They were in the DOT line for being 'quitters'.
Sounds like more of the standard program MO- bait and punish. It doesn't get much more sadistic than that.
Also states that Hutty would be sentenced to probation, but not until after all the others were prosecuted.
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On Wednesday at camp Long left to take a camper to a court appearance. While he was gone three DI's beat the hell out of the kids (except Long's kids, of course!), and forced them to drink mud. They would make them take a mouth full of dirt and then force them to drink warm/hot water. Hopefully, those three will get what they deserve for this abuse when they go to trial next month. Tony was eating dirt because he was delirious. He thought it was water. He had been force to do PT in the morning, and was already thirsty when he was put in the DOR line. Those kids sat there for as long as they did because Long told them he was calling their parents, WHICH HE NEVER DID.
I had the pleasure of seeing Carmelina Long on the news tonight say ONE MORE TIME "that child committed suicide". She should be put in jail for perjury and contempt of court.
Once more highlight....we were told one of the female staff members had tested positive for meth while at the camp, and had remained at the camp. In closing, Ms. Garcia said that the staff member had been sent home "because she had no business being with children". At that moment we all look over at the staff member (who had been identified earlier), and what is she doing in the courtroom?? Sitting there with Long's youngest daughter in her lap.
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Here's this morning's report. Expanded from yesterday's. Note that it's threatening another camper with a knife that gets Long mandatory prison time--not killing Tony. Sentencing is near the end of February.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepubli ... ong04.html (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0104long04.html)
Thanks again anon for giving us insight into the trial.
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Ditto Deb!
Hutty got lucky .... just like in the Ian August case.
Guess we should be grateful Long threatened to gut another young camper "like a fish" if that's what it took to shut this "camp" (s.i.c.) down so that no other child need fear being assaulted or even killed while participating in one of his programs?
Sheesh.
Barbe
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On 2005-01-03 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was one of the jurors on this case. I am choosing to post this as an anonymous post because I really haven't decided whether or not to talk to the press. I came home today with mixed feelings, and did a search to see what there was out there that I didn't know. I came across this forum, and felt compelled to add a post. While MANY of us would have been happier with a 2nd degree murder conviction, I am just happy we were able to not be a hung jury on this count! Having a mistrial declared on counts 2-9 was horrible! But it only takes one person.... I am glad this is over with, and I hope our verdicts do something to help prevent more of this abuse! The prosecution did a tremendous job. A lot of the articles that are linked from AZCentral don't give an accurate account of what happened in the courtroom."
Dear madam or sir, I just can't tell you how welcome you are. I'm so grateful to you and the other jurors for paying attention and believing the evidence. I think you can rest assured that you've already helped a lot of people just by validating their experience and that your hard work in the jury room will help put an end to this madness. I don't know that I'll ever be able to give you concrete evidence of it, but I believe it's so.
I hope you do decide to talk to the press, but I wouldn't ask it of you, ya' know.
Thank you so much!
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe. -- My First Summer in the Sierra , 1911, page 110.
John Muir
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We all know Lon's policy about posting negative press about programs, "Better to get it 'right' than first". In other words, I will wait for the piece that has the best possible spin before posting the 'Breaking News'.
Look which one he posted for this case:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nationa ... d184698933 (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Camp-Death.html?oref=login&ex=1105870923&ei=1&en=ed3108d184698933)
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WHOA there juror...You mean you were a juror, you're posting on this boot camp hate site? I mean, you are just coming here or you've been damning boot camps for a while and just happened to be on a jury that convicted this guy? Something smells very fishy...maybe Mr. Long's attorney can find out who you are and bring it to the judge's attention before he goes to jail?? Hmmm.. I live in the Phoenix area. I think I will do just that, just in case you had a hidden motive for serving. I'm not saying he isn't guilty, it just seems weird that a juror would post here, and post what you've posted. Watch out! :eek:
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After the trial ended I did a Google on "Charles Long murder trial". This is the first result that comes up. (try it, it's true) I read what people had to say. I listened to three months of evidence about a boot camp, so yes, I now have a pretty strong opinion. I have a fairly educated opinion regarding THIS boot camp. I've never posted anywhere else on the site, because I know nothing regarding the other topics. I knew nothing about the case going into the trial.I wanted to read what else was out there about the case because there was a lot of mention of previous press during the trial.
No misconduct here....the trial is over, I can do whatever I want. my vote was based on the evidence we heard at trail, period. As the judge told us when we left "you are now free to go and talk to whomever you want about this case".
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The Juror said: Maybe it will help bring attention to the fact that people need to think before handing over control of their kids to unqualified strangers."
Did the judge also say you were free to air your opinions on a hate forum? From what you said above, I absolutely do not believe that you didn't do some surfing during the trial and that spilled over into your decision or was discussed amongst the other jurors. Isn't there something about "influencing" the jury? Parents do think about handing over control to unqualified strangers....does that include friends?
Unfortunately Mr. Long WAS qualified.
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Now there's a stretch!
Of course, you don't know squat about Charles Long II's little torture camp; even less than you would know about other gulags w/ which you seem to be somewhat tenuously affiliated. And now, in the wake of a little boy's brutal murder, a jury has been seated to hear all of the evidence in this case and has decided to convict the guy for what he's done.
But, in the warped landscape of your scary little mind, this person too must be some kind of evil conspirator out to get you?
Phoenix, just how hard do you have to work to keep on believing as you do? And, maybe more importantly, why? What have you done to make it so imperative for you to identify w/ and to protect people who torture children to death?
And, btw, why are you still anon? Most people who decide to hang around these forums for damned near a year will pick some kind of name just to be able to distinguish themselves from other anon posters. But not you. You just keep on dropping impotent bombs anonymously. How come? What are you so afraid of?In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a trade unionist. Then they came for Catholics, and I didn?t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
--Protestant minister Martin Neimoller
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On 2005-01-07 21:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"WHOA there juror...You mean you were a juror, you're posting on this boot camp hate site? I mean, you are just coming here or you've been damning boot camps for a while and just happened to be on a jury that convicted this guy? Something smells very fishy...maybe Mr. Long's attorney can find out who you are and bring it to the judge's attention before he goes to jail?? Hmmm.. I live in the Phoenix area. I think I will do just that, just in case you had a hidden motive for serving. I'm not saying he isn't guilty, it just seems weird that a juror would post here, and post what you've posted. Watch out! :eek: "
Hello? Google exists, you moron.
There's a simple as hell way to find out the answer to your question---the judge subpoena's Ginger's logs and sorts by ip address, looks at the juror's ip range and looks at the dates.
If the juror's first post is when she said it was, then she's being truthful and you're full of shit.
Yes, there is such a thing as juror misconduct, but for you to simply assume it because she is saying something you don't want to hear is ridiculous.
I suspect the juror is telling the truth, since how she found Fornits is very similar to how I found it.
I had a friend of a bunch of my friends in a small social community get sent to a Program. I didn't know whether to be upset or not---didn't know whether the place was Hogwarts minus the magic (regular old boarding school with a couple of therapists thrown in) or was the kiddie edition of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
I started searching Google, I found Fornits (among other places) and came here to ask my questions and talk about the subject.
One of the reasons I picked Fornits is *because* Ginger freely allows program advocates to say what they have to say in favor of the programs as well as freely allowing criticisms.
The only reasons for Fornits to be slanted towards criticism of the programs is 1) that there's really some fire in amongst all the smoke and/or 2) the pro-program sites tend to severely censor criticism.
This juror wouldn't be the first juror to have *formed* an opinion about a subject in the course of a trial.
Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. In any case, there is no hazard to the juror if you *do* call Long's attorney, since a simple search of log information will clear or condemn the juror straight away with no risk of being wrong.
Since I haven't seen the juror on Fornits before and I've been reading it regularly for quite some time, I strongly suspect you're wrong. The juror is just who she seems and claims to be---someone who formed an opinion *during* the trial, based on the evidence presented---which is just exactly what she was supposed to do.
Juror: don't let this anonymous idiot scare you. A quick search of the site's ip logs will clear you of his/her baseless, irresponsible allegations.
Timoclea
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On 2005-01-08 08:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The Juror said: Maybe it will help bring attention to the fact that people need to think before handing over control of their kids to unqualified strangers."
Did the judge also say you were free to air your opinions on a hate forum? From what you said above, I absolutely do not believe that you didn't do some surfing during the trial and that spilled over into your decision or was discussed amongst the other jurors. Isn't there something about "influencing" the jury? Parents do think about handing over control to unqualified strangers....does that include friends?
Unfortunately Mr. Long WAS qualified. "
Hello? Mr. Moron? After the trial is over, the jurors can "air their opinions" anywhere they damned well please, in the full protection of the First Amendment that the *rest* of us enjoy.
I don't care what you "absolutely do not believe"---fortunately, nobody else does, either. You can "absolutely" not believe that the world is round if you want. Ain't nobody's business if you do. But I don't think there's likely to be a run on "falling off the edge" travel insurance just based on your say-so, either. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Timoclea
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On 2005-01-08 10:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
Juror: don't let this anonymous idiot scare you. A quick search of the site's ip logs will clear you of his/her baseless, irresponsible allegations
Even that would be pretty much an idle threat for a number of reasons.
- The same search could be done and probably would be requested on the accuser. And that would reveal every post by them. And I have a sneaking suspicion that even this person might be able to wrap their mind around how that would, not only damage what credibility they might think they have, but really pile onto the other side of the argument.
- My hosting provider is outside of the country and, therefore, not subject to US law. Now, I trust these guys because I've done business w/ them for a number of years and found them to be entirely trustworthy and honest. But that's not the same thing as meeting a standard of evidence in a US court.
- There is another, more legally binding, source for this information; the users' local ISPs. If you check the user agreement w/ any US based ISP, you'll probably find that there are stipulations regarding legal conduct using the connection. Harassment and slander are illegal. And that source would show, not only hits to this site, but all traffic in and out over whatever timespan the ISP keeps such records. I suspect that the last thing in the world our friend Phoenix and his or her bestest friends want would be for all that traffic to become a matter of public record.
But it's a moot point anyway. I think it's fairly obvious to anyone who's been paying much attention that Phoenix here is crasping at straws.
Not so moot, though; we should all note the extremes of logic and activity to which a deluded believer will go to protect their sacred dogma. That's why I said to Juror15 that, though I hope dearly that they will talk to the media, I wouldn't ask it of them. I'm confident, though, that these folks have a better than average understanding of what they're up against and are prudent enough to take reasonable steps to protect themselves from any slapp suits or other kinds of retaliation.
And, btw, there's a growing network of resources to help you in case you need it. Montel Williams might well be in the same boat real soon. I'm pretty sure his legal staff have prepared. Maia Szalavitz is almost ready to publish her book. She's not leaping blindly either. And there are others. Speaking for myself, I've been ready to throw down!
If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the
government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees.
--President Bill Clinton
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Thanks for the information, Ginger. To the anonymous poster I would point out that my first post was at 4:47 PM (local time) on the day of the verdict, which was announced at noon. My vote was based soley on evidence I heard in the trial, period. As far as Charles Long being qualified...I stated my opinion. You don't have to agree with me any more than I do you. My opinion is based on the testimony I heard. If Long was qualifed, I am sure the defense would have produced such evidence (which they didn't).
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Charles Long will be sentenced Feb. 22. Please write letters requesting that he be sentenced to the maximum sentence allowed by law for the reckless manslaughter death of Tony Haynes and the aggravated assault of another child in his care.
refer to:
Charles F. Long CA2001027941
Send to:
Judge Ronald S Reinstein
Maricopa Superior Court
201 West Jefferson
Phoenix AZ 85003
Thank you.
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And the other 3 DI's charged in this case go to trial on February 2.
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Thank you juror. I appreciate the insight into the trial and for the updates. It's nice to know the good guys win every once in a while. :smile:
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For those that don't know, DI means drill instructor. And there were some out of control drill instructors at the Buffalo Soldiers (or BS, as I like to call it!;)) boot camp. Hopefully their trial will move faster than the trial of Charles Long!
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I just heard on the local news here in Phoenix that a juror is saying they were forced to give a guily plea in this case.
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On 2005-01-21 11:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just heard on the local news here in Phoenix that a juror is saying they were forced to give a guily plea in this case."
guilty verdict
/sorry, couldn't help myself. no harm intended. :razz:
juror 15 disagrees:
Posted: 2005-01-03 14:47:00
I was one of the jurors on this case. I am choosing to post this as an anonymous post because I really haven't decided whether or not to talk to the press. I came home today with mixed feelings, and did a search to see what there was out there that I didn't know. I came across this forum, and felt compelled to add a post. While MANY of us would have been happier with a 2nd degree murder conviction, I am just happy we were able to not be a hung jury on this count! Having a mistrial declared on counts 2-9 was horrible! But it only takes one person.... I am glad this is over with, and I hope our verdicts do something to help prevent more of this abuse! The prosecution did a tremendous job. A lot of the articles that are linked from AZCentral don't give an accurate account of what happened in the courtroom.
Posted: 2005-01-03 17:23:00
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Thank you for your kind words. This is the hardest thing I have ever gone through, and I know my fellow jurors feel the same. We had one juror who had an agenda all her own (refered to Long as "Chuck!!), so I am thankful we were able to accomplish what we did.
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Thank you for explaining this to me. I guess it's the juror with their own aganda. BTW Great job on this case. It's about time someone is held accountable for a wrongful death concerning children in these so called treatment centers.
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http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... ror22.html (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0122longjuror22.html)
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wah, wah, wah.
what do you say juror 15?
sounds like this woman had NO business serving on a jury.
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What do I think? I think this just proves what I stated before; she had an agenda. If not, why didn't she go to the judge after the trial? Instead, she ran to the defense team the next day. We didn't want to look at evidence? We spent 3 MONTHS looking at evidence! The evidence comes into the jury room in case you need to refer to it. It isn't mandatory that you re-read every piece. But we did look at the evidence, which just convinced us more of his guilt. She is the one that said in the jury room "I quit listening after Hutty testified. If he isn't going to jail The Colonel shouldn't either. She says we pressured her? Then why didn't she feel pressured to vote guilty on the 8 counts of child abuse? She was able to hold her ground there, we just said fine, then we're hung. She knew this might be a way to get off or get him a new trial.
Justice....is there such a thing? We'll see.
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Chuck had three hearings and yesterday was denied a new trial. Which means that those of you who want to speak out for Tony Haynes still can: write sentencing letters asking that Charles Long be sentenced to the maximum penalty allowed under the law for the reckless manslaughter death of Tony Haynes. Sentencing is May 24.
refer to:
Charles F. Long CA2001027941
Send to:
Judge Ronald S Reinstein
Maricopa Superior Court
201 West Jefferson
Phoenix AZ 85003
Thank you.
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Do you have an e-mail address for him? This would be better for most. When is the hearing for sentencing?
Education is that which remains, if one has forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years, 1950
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On 2005-01-08 08:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The Juror said: Maybe it will help bring attention to the fact that people need to think before handing over control of their kids to unqualified strangers."
Did the judge also say you were free to air your opinions on a hate forum? From what you said above, I absolutely do not believe that you didn't do some surfing during the trial and that spilled over into your decision or was discussed amongst the other jurors. Isn't there something about "influencing" the jury? Parents do think about handing over control to unqualified strangers....does that include friends?
Unfortunately Mr. Long WAS qualified. "
What do you mean he "WAS qualified"? Did he have a resume stating that he had previous experience torture-murdering children...?
You're fucking sick.
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On 2005-04-10 06:41:00, nite owl wrote:
"Do you have an e-mail address for him? This would be better for most. When is the hearing for sentencing?<
Sorry, but no e-mail to my best knowledge. There is no hearing, just sentence will be given on May 24. It's probably best to get the sentencing letters to Judge Reinstein ASAP. Here in AZ, where victim's rights are fairly well represented) judges DO pay attention to those letters at sentencing and then again in clemency hearings down the road.
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The 3 drill instrucors that also beat kids at Long's camp have all plead guilt, and will be sentenced at 10am May 13, by Judge Reinstein.
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Boot camp director gets 6-year prison sentence
02:12 PM Mountain Standard Time on Tuesday, May 24, 2005
Staff and wire reports
The director of a boot camp for troubled youth was sentenced to six years in prison today for the death of a 14-year-old sent to the camp by his mother.
Charles Long, director of the America's Buffalo Soldiers Re-enactors Association boot camp, was charged with second-degree murder in the July 2001 death of Anthony Haynes, but the jury instead convicted him of a lesser charge of reckless manslaughter in January.
He was also convicted of aggravated assault, but the jury deadlocked on eight counts of child abuse in the 3 1/2-month-long trial.
Haynes' mother, Melanie Hudson, said she was grateful for the verdict.
"It won't bring Tony back," she said, but it provides closure more than three years after his death.
Investigators said Haynes, who attended Long's "tough love" camp near Buckeye, died of complications of dehydration and near-drowning after he collapsed at the desert camp in triple-digit heat.
Two camp supervisors put him in a bathtub with the shower running at a motel near the camp to cool down. They found him face down in the water and called Long.
Long, 59, was accused of telling the supervisors to bring Haynes, who wasn't responding, back to the camp.
Long maintained the allegations against him were false, and his attorney argued parents knew what the camp entailed. They were given pamphlets that described the camp as a "no-nonsense, in-your-face, tough-love operation."
Attorney JoAnn Garcia also argued that Hudson, who paid $2,000 to send the teen to the camp after he was caught shoplifting and slashed her tires, failed to tell camp operators that Haynes had a medical condition requiring him to drink more water and to have access to shade.
Prosecutors said the camp's regimen included wearing black uniforms in triple-digit temperatures, harsh discipline and sleeping on cement slabs in sleeping bags in sweltering heat.
The camp was shut down after the teen's death.
Long was facing a minimum five-year sentence on the aggravated assault charge but could face up to 15 years. He faces another four to 10 years on the manslaughter conviction.
SIX years....not nearly enough.
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6 years is the longest punishment I've seen so far. With the death of Aaron Bacon - most responsible had to do a few months of community service and only one did any jail time - and that is because he refused to plead to a lesser charge and went to trial where a jury convicted him.
This is great news. To get a longer sentence - those close to Tony need to ask for it....
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Here's from the Superior Court News Flash:
SUPERIOR COURT NEWS FLASHES
Tuesday, May 24
Charles Long Sentencing
Judge Ronald Reinstein sentenced Charles Long to:
Count 1-- Reckless Manslaughter
6 years in prison
Count 2 -- Aggravated Assault
5 years in prison
These two counts will run concurrently.
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From the Arizona Republic
Boot-camp counselor gets 4 months in jail in boy's death
Michael Kiefer
The Arizona Republic
Jun. 22, 2005 12:00 AM
A camp counselor was sentenced Tuesday in Maricopa County Superior Court to four months in jail and three years probation for the 2001 death of a troubled teen at a tough-love boot camp near Buckeye. And three other counselors were sentenced to jail and probation for child abuse inflicted on other campers during a weeklong desert ordeal.
In the summer of 2001, Troy Hutty, 33, brought his two children from Philadelphia to attend a camp run by America's Buffalo Soldiers Re-Enactors Association. Most campers were troubled teens brought to the tough-love camp by desperate parents or referred there by counselors or law enforcement. Hutty came on vacation.
The camp's director, Charles Long, directed Hutty to bring four youths to a hotel for a shower to cool off, including Anthony Haynes, a 14-year-old who had been acting erratically.
Haynes was placed unconscious in the tub and nearly drowned. Instead of calling paramedics, Hutty brought the boy back to the camp, where he died of complications of near drowning and dehydration.
Prosecutors allowed Hutty to plead guilty to negligent homicide in exchange for his testimony against Long. In January, a jury found Long guilty of manslaughter and aggravated assault, and in May, he was sentenced to six years in prison.
Haynes' mother and grandmother asked Judge Ronald Reinstein to send Hutty to jail.
"Next week will be four years since I lost my baby," said the mother, Melanie Hudson, "and it could have been prevented by dialing three numbers."
Prosecutor Mark Barry asked that Hutty be sent to jail for a year. "He was the lone adult in that situation," Barry said. "He could have made that call to help that young man, and he didn't."
Earlier in the day, Reinstein sentenced three other counselors for child abuse convictions unrelated to Haynes' death that took place when Long was away from the camp. Some youngsters were spanked with a boot sole, punched and kicked and made to eat mud, among other allegations. All three pleaded guilty.
Ray Burr Anderson, 22, was sentenced to six months in jail and three years of probation. Matthew Fontenot, 21, was sentenced to a year in jail and three years probation. And Sirveorge Jones, 20, received three years probation and the time he has already served in jail because he could not afford to post bond, 578 days.
FYI --- Dateline NBC is taping jurors next week...