Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 11, 2004, 02:50:00 AM
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YES...update to follow...casa by the sea has just closed & parents have been requested to pick their kids up in 48 hours!!!
Regards,
LEE
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It appears to me that someone has been doing there homework!!! Way to go ISAC's!!!
Regards,
Lee
ISAC Corporation has learned that Mexican authorities have ordered the closure of Casa by the Sea, a behavior modification program affiliated with the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools(WWASPS).
The facility, located in Ensenada, has been ordered to remove all students within 48 hours.
Representatives of WWASPS/Teen Help have confirmed the impending closure.
ISAC will release additional information as it becomes available.
ISAC Corporation
Shelby Earnshaw, Director
http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)
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I couldn't find anything about this on the ISAC website... can you give me a direct link? This sonuds too good to be true-- I really need to see it with my own eyes. Thanks.
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:cry: I'm so happy... this really is something.
GOOO ISAC! The optimist thinks that this is the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist knows it.
-- J. Robert Oppenheimer
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I was the anonymous who posted before Nihilanthic-- forget about the "direct link", I just checked my inbox . This is completely and totally AWESOME!! Great work, ISAC!! :tup:
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The Mexican Government closed four teen programs yesterday. Anyone know the names of the other ones?
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Baja raids shut boarding schools for U.S. teens
>
> By Sandra Dibble and Anna Cearley
> UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITERS
> September 11, 2004
>
> ENSENADA - Hundreds of U.S. teens enrolled in private rehabilitation
centers were being sent home yesterday after Mexican health and immigration authorities shut down three Baja California facilities.
>
> The largest group of students, 536, had been enrolled in a boarding
program at Casa by the Sea outside Ensenada. A group of 20 had been living at Casa La Esperanza in Ensenada, and a third group of 26 students was enrolled at Genesis south of Rosarito Beach.
>
> Reports of foreigners and complaints that minors were being mistreated
> led
to the raids, according to a statement late yesterday by Mexico's National Migration Institute.
>
> The schools' behavior modification programs are aimed at youths with
> drug
dependency and behavior problems. Parents commonly use them as a last resort. The schools have been accused of moving abroad to avoid scrutiny of U.S. government authorities for their controversial methods.
>
> At Casa by the Sea, four residents showed signs of physical and
> emotional
mistreatment, including one from El Salvador, the Mexican immigration statement said.
>
> At Genesis, youths told immigration authorities that they were
> physically
and emotionally mistreated, the statement said, without offering details.
>
> The director of Casa La Esperanza was expelled for conducting
> activities
not authorized by his tourist visa. But the statement otherwise avoided legal terms such as "expulsion" or "deportation."
>
> The 20 minors at Casa La Esperanza had "irregular" migratory
documentation, and along with one adult were turned over to U.S. immigration officials at the San Ysidro crossing, the statement said.
>
> The minors from Genesis also were turned in at the border.
>
> Some residents of Casa by the Sea were allowed to leave with their
parents. But hundreds of others remained at the facility until family members could be contacted.
>
> The U.S. Consulate in Tijuana sent staff members to the three centers
"making sure everything is done in accordance with Mexican law," said spokeswoman Liza Davis. "If kids need to be repatriated to the U.S., we're getting in touch with their families and facilitating that process."
>
> Luz Ramos, the coordinator of medical services at Casa by the Sea,
> said
late yesterday that government officials had regularly inspected the center.
>
> "We are regulated, we have the best in services. . . . This is a total
surprise."
>
> Staff members at the other two centers could not be reached.
>
> At Casa by the Sea, confused and worried parents showed up throughout
> the
day at the unmarked and walled compound just north of Ensenada, asking state police to allow them inside.
>
> Several parents and a student interviewed outside the center said they
> had
no complaints.
>
> Carol Rivardi of Orange County had been waiting since the morning to
> see
her 16-year-old daughter. "The staff is absolutely phenomenal. My daughter's behavior has totally changed," she said.
>
> Larry Horn of Agoura Hills said his 15-year-old son had problems with
drugs, alcohol, bad grades and disrespect to his parents. "We tried rehab for six weeks, but these kids need a lot more than that," he said.
>
> Casa by the Sea bills itself as a "specialty program for teens . . .
> who
are struggling in their home, school or community."
>
> The cost is $70 per day, according to its Web site.
>
> Relatives unable to contact the centers for information about family
members should call the U.S. Consulate's San Diego number at (619) 692-2154.
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Allot of the casa students are being transfered to other programs of course.
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Allot?
Escorted?
Do you escort for WWASP, one who cares?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=30#60558 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4130&forum=9&start=30#60558)
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couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of fellows. do the math 536 X 2,900 per month = 1.5 million
then do the 536 X 95.00 per month = 60K per month for tooth paste, soap & shampoo
then take 536 X 295.00 one time fee, sometimes for their uniforms = another 158K
then take 536 X 2000.00 one time fee for admin costs = another cool 1.1 Million (pocket money for the owners in Utah & operations dude) Dace did you get a cut of this?
these figures don't include the good ole' doctor visits or the fees to go get your student visa?
Mexico don't play this shit wwasps...
WWASPS must NOT have been greasing the right palm...
OR the wrong palm...
OR not enough grease?
What comes around goes around gentlemen!
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Direct link to the news story?
If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race?
--Frederic Bastiat -- 1801-1850
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Direct link to the news story?
The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled.
-- Plutarch
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this facility alone is well over 18.5 million a year for wwasps. less we forget the 750,000 charged for soap, shampoo & tooth paste for the year?
can anyone say CACACACA....CHING!!! What a racket this is...a child's country club so to speak!
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bmp
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The kids are at the Town and Country Hotel.
Words is there is Lots of staff and escorts standing by.
Kids are crying because they a not welcome home.
It occurs to me they are unaware that they can not be treated with the same kind of force and harassment in this Public place they are accustomed to.
Ideas on how to get the local department of child and family services in there?
Journalist?
Simply get word to the kids they do not have to go and can not be forced? Info on shelters in the area?
The hotel number is
619 291 7131
address
500 Hotel cir N.
San Diego CA
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From a previous post - "At Casa by the Sea, four residents showed signs of physical and emotional mistreatment, including one from El Salvador, the Mexican immigration statement said."
Out of the 450 + students wouldn't they have to say they saw signs of physical/emotional mistreatment in at least one kid to validate the closing? Why wouldn't all of them show those signs? What signs? Were there a mere 4 kids that told them they were being abused or what? Anyone know? Did the Mexican government even take the time to talk to the kids and parents prior to the closing? Not from what I've heard.
From the newspaper reports, the kids and parents they did interview after the closing said they never saw or heard of abuse except from a few that "wanted to go home." They were given every opportunity to cry abuse without fear of repercussion and they didn't. Why is that?
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On 2004-09-12 09:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"They were given every opportunity to cry abuse without fear of repercussion and they didn't."
No, they weren't given that opportunity. All those who were interviewed were positive about the program because WWASP can't risk letting those who are not brainwashed enough talk to the press. These kids are still under the control of the staff. Most of them will be trasnferred to other facilities.
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So what you're saying is that the reporters were brought students and parents that were hand picked and told what to say?
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On 2004-09-12 10:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So what you're saying is that the reporters were brought students and parents that were hand picked and told what to say? "
Yes. That's nothing new. WWASP always does that. They do their best to silence and prevent any criticism.
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And, how do you know they didn't have that opportunity? Were you there? I wasn't, but with all the activity going on outside the school, it just doesn't wash that they had staff running interference. Wouldn't a reporter have seen that kind of interference going on and reported that too? My guess is that the staff had their hands full inside the building.
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Press is not allowed anywere near lower level "students".
Lower level's aren't even allowed to speak with their parents much less Press.
Parents Are hand picked and coached.
Press was evicted from the hotel; told to leave; and have not been allowed free access to the students.
If allz well and everything is just hunky-dorry, Open the doors and let the kids walk around and speak with whom ever they choose. Why Not?
Got them all held in a conferance room, is what I hear. Won't let anyone near them, is what I hear.
Why is that?
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doesn't CA have a 14 yr. old law pertaining to this kids & their rights...at 14 they should be able to express their own thoughts?
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On 2004-09-12 10:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"And, how do you know they didn't have that opportunity? Were you there? I wasn't, but with all the activity going on outside the school, it just doesn't wash that they had staff running interference. Wouldn't a reporter have seen that kind of interference going on and reported that too? My guess is that the staff had their hands full inside the building. "
You were not there and neither was I. I however do have vast experience with WWASPS' convoluted view of what they want the world (and the US Department of State) to see. Certainly they had staff running interference. That is the primary goal of WWASPS, to keep the "outside" from knowing what is going on "inside". Chaos is never that endemic that staff will let a reporter roam, even if one asked what was going on inside. Duhhh.
If you look at the actual online article in the San Diego Union-Tribune (which was the first breaking story I saw), you will see it illustrated with a photo of the famous wood stockade gates at Casa (with the "prettier" little hotel lobby-type office that WWASPS uses in their advertising peeking through in the little crack of the opened gate). There are police visible on the street side, and the small opening in the gates themselves is filled with a Mexican man and his "diablo"...the hand-cart moving things in and out. The photographer was obviously trying to get into the facility, and was obviously kept at arm's length outside the gates.
Do you wonder where these reporters are getting their statements from? Could it be the carefully-presented parents wondering "How can this be happening, when my child has done improved so much in the 2 and a half years she has been there?" How does a reporter know who to talk to, unless they are standing outside the gates looking for involved parties...OR, WWASPS has given them phone numbers, etc. for local contacts. How would a San Jose Mercury-News reporter know the name and location of a family in Sunnyvale who is ecstatic about their child's "progress". Certainly the rest of the world knows that, outside of the secret WWASPS BBS, knowing the identity of a WWASPS parent of location of a former WWASPS student is nearly impossible.
Sunshine, folks...we need sunshine. Call up these papers and tell your stories. The reporters WANT to hear all, but they are only being given one side and they don't even know it.
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lets all write to local colleges and anyone else we know in the San Diego area and tell them the where abouts of all the kids removed from Mexico and what is going on at the Town and Country Motel. Lets see how the motel likes this. Maybee get everyone there protesting.
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Here's the deal and a big red flag for me.
IF WWASP is operating above board- no abuse, effective therapy, etc; why aren't they inviting media and film makers to make documentaries?
Seems they'd want to share their secret recipe for transforming teens.
Fact is, pepper spray, OP, restraint, unreasonable and irrational rules are not considered acceptable by the masses, not even in POW camps. Do they really want the world to see kids walking around with their heads down, being punished for looking at someone else or in the mirror, being without basic necessities, lying face down in OP for days/weeks on end, having their arms twisted behind their backs, or any of the other alleged abuses?
If they are on the up and up, let the cameras in. And not for a 2 hour tour.
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deb...less we forget...these kids aren't "fully-baked" so to speak. so YOU can't remove them JUST yet...according to the "behavioral mod" dudes.
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Lets all write to local colleges http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh ... adid=56574 (http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?threadid=56574) link to the local GREEK LIFE BOARDS http://sdcommunities.net/YouthConnect.a ... Code=92182 (http://sdcommunities.net/YouthConnect.aspx?ZipCode=92182) Local Youth Message boards
http://sdcommunities.net/community.aspx?ZipCode=92182 (http://sdcommunities.net/community.aspx?ZipCode=92182) San Diego area communities link
http://www.authenticrock.com/aboutus.htm (http://www.authenticrock.com/aboutus.htm) the local radio station,
ACLU of San Diego & Imperial Counties
P.O. Box 87131
San Diego, CA 92138-7131
PHONE: 619-232-2121
http://aclusandiego.org/index.html (http://aclusandiego.org/index.html)
or anyone else we know in the San Diego area who will listen and tell them the where-abouts of all the kids removed from Mexico and what is going on at the Town and Country Motel Phone: 619-291-7131 address: 500 Hotel cir N. San Diego CA.
Lets see how the motel likes this. Maybe get everyone protesting at the motel? Also keep calling local law enforcement personnel http://www.sandiego.gov/police/ (http://www.sandiego.gov/police/)
DHS 1-800-527-3223 and anyone else who will listen and the motel where they are keeping the kids 619-291-7131 and telling them as long as they are harboring and protecting child abusers they will be no longer have your business and you will tell your friends not to go there either
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http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... 3kids.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040913/news_1m13kids.html)
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i live within a mile of that hotel and i just called. it appears they have been moved. unless wwasp is up to its old tricks.
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American Legion
8118 University Ave
La Mesa, California 91941
Phone: (619) 469-6064
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:eek: suprise suprise, empty... hmmm, now where else could they be? maybe they didnt leave in the first place... hmmm, anyone in sd that can go to that hotel and check, might be a fine idea. :???:
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AP news this AM says the kids were bussed to San Diego in 4 busses. Taken to Town and Country, then moved to American Legion Hall. As of this morning, only 20 kids had not been picked up. Don't know how many were "picked up" by escorts and shipped off to other WWASPS.
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yeah right so whats the latest? any kids left at the american legion? why would they go there?
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So what happened to the four abused children? Being that they are minors, we may never know?
more program cover up?
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Maybe you all should write to US Senators Kennedy, Clinton, and Kerry, I am sure this is an issue they would want to tackle. Come on they have programs all over the Country, and also write letters to the editors with your horrific experiences (keep them short and too the point) expose these scums for what they really are. Sitting back knowing what you know makes you all part of the problem not the solution. ::boohoo::
Get off your rumps and so something.
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It's hard to immagine that parents would be stupid enough to place their child in another WWASP program. How many need to be closed before people get the message that their therapy is abusive and not recommended by any reputable professional psychological or medical organization. Like I've said many times before these abusive tactics were learned by Lichfield and Farnsworth while they worked at Provo Canyon School. PCS uses the same tactics. What continues to amaze me is how the government in Utah covers for these dens of horror and abuse. Courts continue to place children in these facilities at our expence (taxpayers). I agree that those who have been abused need to keep coals hot under those who have the power to do something about these awful teen program. Report the abuse to the authorities - police, child protective services, attorney general and the licensing boards. Then go to the press and let them know what happened. Often they will protect your identity by using a ficticious name. Writing letters to the editor also help.
...it is worth discussing radical changes, not in the expectation that they will be adopted promptly but for two other reasons. One is to construct an ideal goal, so that incremental changes can be judged by whether they move the institutional structure toward or away from that ideal. The other reason is very different. It is so that if a crisis requiring or facilitating radical change does arise, alternatives will be available that have been carefully developed and fully explored."
Milton Friedman
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Desisto school was here in MA, were in the process of meeting licensing requirements finally, but had some huge problems of neglect, kids cutting swallowing razor blades, staff not applying first aid for a long time, then when finally taken to ER neglected to tell ER that the girl had swallowed the razor blades. Other abuses, and things that were unacceptable. I know the state Office for Licensing Services spent lots of time there, but the program didn't get it. It's new Director since Michael DeSisto had to resign as Director because the state required it, and before he was found to be sick and passed away, has no real education or mental health background, he was an artist. Strange place, anyway they had 15 parents willing to send their kids to their location in Mexico and with passports no visa's off they went. Wonder what will happen...?
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KABUL (Reuters) Three Americans have been sentenced to up to 10 years in jail after being found guilty by an Afghan court on charges including torture, running a private prison and illegal detention.
Jonathan ?Jack? Idema, a former U.S. Green Beret, was arrested in July along with another ex-serviceman, Brent Bennett, and documentary film-maker Edward Caraballo.
They had denied the charges and insisted they were in Afghanistan with U.S. and Afghan government sanction to help track down al-Qaida and Taliban extremists.
?I apologize that we tried to save these people,? Idema told reporters immediately after the verdict. ?We should have let the Taliban murder every ... one of them,? he said bitterly.
Idema and Bennett were each sentenced to 10 years in jail and Caraballo to eight. Four Afghan co-defendants received sentences ranging from one to five years.
John Edwards Tiffany, a lawyer for Idema, said they planned to appeal.
?Justice was not served today,? Tiffany said. ?I blame the U.S. government, the Bush administration and the Afghan legal system, which is not anywhere near where it needs to be.?
?No one tortured anyone,? Idema added.
The Idema case came to light in the wake of scandals over U.S. treatment of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Afghan authorities said Idema had entered the country illegally, was running a private prison, had tortured and illegally detained Afghans and had harmed relations between Afghanistan and the U.S.
They said the judicial process they had experienced so far scarcely met Afghan standards, let alone international ones.
?This is so far removed from what I am used to,? Tiffany told reporters during a recess.
(Does any of this sound like anyone you know?)
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More on that:
Torture for Profit
Private contractors face legal action for crimes in Abu Ghraib
by David Phinney, Special to CorpWatch
September 15th, 2004
Cartoonist: Khalil Bendib
Employees of two high-profile defense contractors are accused of involvement in close to one third of the torture and abuse incidents cited in a recent Army investigation of Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. In late August, following release of the report, Defense department officials turned over the names of six CACI International Inc. and Titan Corporation employees to the U.S. Justice department for possible prosecution.
Full Article: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11524 (http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11524)
These corporations and the people involved in them have been tight w/ the Büsh Dynasty going back at least a generation, sometimes more. Jeb and his wife, Cammila, are (or have recently been) on the BOA of Drug Free America Foundation (fka Straight, Inc.) GHW and Barbara have both endoursed Straight, Inc. by name. Here's a message from our former president http://thestraights.com/video/bush.ram (http://thestraights.com/video/bush.ram)
Much of the method used in Straight has been reportedly used in Abu Graib (and, btw, the School of the Americas for decades now)
I don't think this is coincidental. I think that if you look at this throught the prism of that vital double question that answers everything (who's fuckin' who and where'd the money go? Call it Crazy Mac's razor) all this madness and insanity sort of make sense, doesn't it?
The Religious Reich is fuckin' anybody who they find inconvenient and the money's all rolling in to Carlyle, Halliburton subsidieries w/ post office boxes on a Carribian sand bar.
The neandracons, or missing chromosone Replicans, have truely taken over the assylum. Don't sweat the
- Petty Things
Don't pet the
- Sweaty Things
Water what you want to grow.
--Curiosity
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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everyone is giving Kudos to Isac, including Isac themselves..(way to go ISAC...by Shelly director of ISAC).
What did Isac do, if anything to help facilitate the closing.
Tell me please, I am real interested here in learning what ISAC has done except read the newspaper.
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everyone is giving Kudos to Isac, including Isac themselves..(way to go ISAC...by Shelly director of ISAC).
Where did you read this comment? ISAC doesn't post here very often so if you really want to know the deal perhaps call or write them.
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On 2004-09-15 21:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"everyone is giving Kudos to Isac, including Isac themselves..(way to go ISAC...by Shelly director of ISAC).
What did Isac do, if anything to help facilitate the closing.
Tell me please, I am real interested here in learning what ISAC has done except read the newspaper.
"
From one "bag over your head" to another, I was told ISAC NEVER had anything to do with the mexico shit, it wasn't them, and they never claimed it was them, all they did was give the crimes report to a parent who took her kid out of Casa, and she did the rest, not them.
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On 2004-09-10 23:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It appears to me that someone has been doing there homework!!! Way to go ISAC's!!!
Regards,
Lee
ISAC Corporation has learned that Mexican authorities have ordered the closure of Casa by the Sea, a behavior modification program affiliated with the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools(WWASPS).
The facility, located in Ensenada, has been ordered to remove all students within 48 hours.
Representatives of WWASPS/Teen Help have confirmed the impending closure.
ISAC will release additional information as it becomes available.
ISAC Corporation
Shelby Earnshaw, Director
http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)
"
right there, second quote in the thread. Why is ISAC patting themselves on the back here. What did they have to do with the closing?
Can't wait to here it.
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Dude, I don't think Shelby's taking credit for causing the closings here. She just says "ISAC has learned...". She's just reporting. And Lee, as much as I loath him personally, is only giving credit to her for knowing what's up.
I don't really see a problem here. I don't go lookin' for trouble. I just keep a little in a box should someone come by who is.
--Bill Warbis
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This is still great news. I saw it in the Drug War Chronicle http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/354/mexico.shtml (http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/354/mexico.shtml)
Of course better news would have been that the Mexican police had raided the place, taken the kids to the American Consulate for repatriation and arrested the staff members. Then a few months later WWASP cries foul that dozens of its staff members have not been accounted for and there are mysteriously fresh looking holes a few miles from the CASA facility.
The kids will never be free until the sands run red with WWASPie blood![ This Message was edited by: FaceKhan on 2004-09-17 09:49 ]
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I had a son at Casa, thinking it was the right place to get him some badly needed help. After seeing how they acted when Casa closed, and realized how hard it was to penetrate who this company really is I came to understand who they are and what they are about. It's frightening. I found a website where a woman has fought WWASP for three years and won a jury trial in Utah against them. She knows the truth about the organization. If you want more info, go to http://www.helpyourteens.com (http://www.helpyourteens.com).
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i wondered when Sue would show up in the mix. Pure is just anther WWASP if you ask me in my opinoion. Go to the main page, approved escorts? What is this? WWASP uses questionable marketing methods, what you just read in the above post is Sue Schef's version of questionable marketing practices. In my opinon PURE is no better than WWASP.
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PURE is to WWASPS as the Soviet Union was to Nazi Germany. The enemy of our enemy may be our friend, but PURE is going to create its own problems down the road.
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Casa is opening back up? Any truth to this? :scared: :???:
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=20 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=6710&forum=9&start=20)
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My son was at Casa, now at home in San Diego. He got roughed up by the Federales when the raid happened; he has a huge lump on the back of his head and a black eye. He said the reason lots of kids didn't speak up was because staff was in there with the Federales, and one thing those kids learn in there quick is, don't trust anyone! Now he's ready to talk, and wants to sue the damn place, and I don't blame him.
Get this, his dad who sent him, won't even apologize, can you believe that? He says he didn't know! Well, I'm his mom, and when I was told where he was sent, I researched and found a ton of info on WWASP and their prisons. Thank God for Shelby and ISAC, they are wonderful.
Austin's Mom
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I'm so glad that you have your son back, that he is free, and that you're the kind of good mom to be supportive as he goes through recovery.
If you can get him to trust a *good* therapist, a *real* therapist (ie---not a program quack), he's going to need a therapist's help coping with the post-trauma feelings. I'm a rape survivor, I know.
There are thoughts that it's natural for any survivor of this kind of thing---little niggling soul-destroying thoughts. If you don't get therapy for them, they can nibble away at you inside, bit by bit, over the years and really screw you up.
A *good* therapist will know the kind of thoughts to look for (survivor guilt, etc.), will find them, dig them out, rebut them with good sense that somehow as a survivor you can tell yourself all you want but it isn't the same as hearing it from a trusted counselor.
Good counseling, early, after a trauma like this can cut *years*--sometimes decades, no joke--off your recovery.
I'm glad you have your son back.
Best wishes with recovering from the experience and getting on with your lives.
Timoclea
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This was no country club.
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two hundred bucks i hear is the going rate for a teen help telephone attendant to re-up the casa kids...into another "program" of wwasp's choice!
ANY TAKERS???
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cum on people i have a familia to feed. sign up now let's make a deal, i really need the two bills for my habits.
536 of you were happy with casa, why not another program of the same nature here in the good ol usa? what? we can't torture them here too you say? Can 2!
oh where oh where have all of our wwaspies gone?
just maybe they had to attend another one of gilgrease's seminars?
bobby's babies need a new pair of sneekers and the boat could use some k-ching for gas!
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JolineLev
Comment made: Sep 22, 2004 - 02:33 PM
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My son was at Casa by the Sea for a total of 8 1/2 months. He didn't like it there much but he says that he probably would have been dead by now if we had not sent him to a boarding school to get his life together.
We have a password that our son Kyle and I and father came up with long ago that if he was ever in trouble and couldn't talk about it he could just say the password and we'd be there to get him out. Not once did he ever use the password and believe me, we asked and his answer was no, he's ok and doing well. He never saw any abuse in the time he was there nor was he abused himself. The staff at Casa was very pleasant and helpful to the students and to partents. The only complaint I had was with the doctors and the treatment they were receiving was not quick enough for my liking.
My son is very well adjusted now. He is on a waiting list for Montana school just in case, but as well as he is doing now we will not send him back to boarding school. He acquired a lot of good tools to help him through life. I am very proud of him now.
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RHOACO
Joined: Sep 16, 2004
Comments: 12
Comment made: Sep 25, 2004 - 01:33 PM
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I know first hand of the WWASPS "OFF-SHORE" jails they run. (My Ex works for them) They just lost a lawsuit in SLC in their effort to shut a parent up who spoke out about the abuse and also CASA by the sea was shut down last week...............JUST ONE OF MANY they have had to close.
These people need to be exposed for what they REALLY are..........
I will do that in a later post.
Robert Rhoads
Santaquin
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I just called the 800 number off a web-site for Casa to see what they'd have to say. When I asked about Casa, the person who answered the phone kept trying to get me to give the name of the person I heard about it from. She wouldn't let up, and I wouldn't give it to her. She was telling me how great the program was, and I asked her why if Casa was closed, they still had a web-site? She said 'maybe the people in charge of the web-site are too busy' to correct it! Correct it??? I reminded her it was shut down by the federales! I also asked her if she condoned being 'restrained'? She said yes if it was needed! I asked her if saying 'sh**' qualified, and she said yes! She raved about the program and even offered that her son is in one! She kept telling me how well he was doing, to which I asked why isn't back home then. Her answer: He hasn't been there long enough (ONLY 8 months). I told her I thought that was adequate time for brainwashing. she kept reiterating that I was apparently believing 'bad publicity' and that 'the press is known for lying and printing things that aren't true'.
What a piece of work these people are. Aargh!!!!
Why don't some of the rest of you call that 800 number, too, and give them some grief? What can they do? NOthing..... just like the kids in their 'facilities'...nothing!
end of my rant for now...
Anita
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anita, you should have asked if there was some sort of discount for transfering children from casa to another facility of abuse under the wwasp umbrella?
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Funny you should mention that, as WWASP did contact my ex (the one who put my son there) on his cell phone SEVERAL TIMES as he was, get this!, driving my son back home because that place was shut down. They also called their house several times trying to get them to place him in another of their 'facilities'. So, is it any wonder that my son immediately purchased a knife to carry with him? He said he'd kill anyone who tried to take him back there, and he also speaks of getting together with some of the guys he met there to "go to Utah and kill that **** who did those damned seminars". He certainly wasn't like that before he got sent there.
His dad is basically doing nothing, not even trying to get my son's driver's license or passport back. Guess the dad doesn't want anything to do with this place because he "lost a lot of money sending (our son) there". Humilitation seemed to work there, sad to say.
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I hope that Anita took photos of the wounds inflicted upon her child. He needs to disclose what really goes on in there. The WWASP rebuttal indicates that NONE of the children were abused in any way. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The truth must be told. Many people are not aware of the torture inflicted upon children in the name of therapy. We need people with personal experience to come forward....Keep writing letters to the editors.....
I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.
--GW Büsh, CNN.com, December 18, 2000
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Night Owl,
Great idea, but my son lives w/his dad, so no photos. His dad is doing nothing, nothing at all. Sad but true. I'm doing all I can to get my son to come back and live with me, but right now he's trying to finish his Sr. year in high school, after getting no credits for the 'school work' he did at Casa. What a waste that place is. It's scary w/all the money that WWASP dumps into the rightwing nuts/Republicans.
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EASY...anitasue...I resemble that remark & am on YOUR side pertaining to this issue at hand. HeHeHe!
I personally would like to think that the Republicans don't currently know or care about this whole issue of "behavioral mods" that has been created by society?s own doing. It ain?t so though?they do know and as to whether they care is yet to be seen. No one with any pull to date has had enough courage to stand up on the rooftops & scream ?STOP THIS SHIT!?
Just from my experience with my current local & state administration...the attitude is that it is a "buyer beware" issue. You, your ex-husband, me, & many others before us...have chosen to place our children in these places. I have been informed personally...Which means to me & me alone that legislation needs to be established & then enforced; contrary to what others believe on this board to discourage families from sending loved ones off for others to "raise" or be "fixed".
Regardless of what anyone says in my opinion?NO ONE will ever be ?fixed? by any of these so called child ?warehouses?. Just my opinion, I was duped into thinking differently at one time & have regretted every minute since that day.
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Lee, the finance chairman for both Büsh presidential campaigns and current ambassador to Italy certainly knows and wholeheartedly approves of this particular sort of child abuse. You'd have to work pretty hard to not know that.
Busy, curious, thirsty fly, Drink with me, and drink as I.
-- William Oldys (1696-1761): On a Fly drinking out of a Cup of Ale.
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You really should get a new Order to Show Cause going and try to regain some custody of you son to protect him from further institutionalized abuse. This is just a convienent way to have someone else deal with the problems of adolescence - that ALL KIDS go through. Take care...
I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.
--Abraham Lincoln
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Ginger,
I agree that many know or have some idea, I'm trying to convince these idiots that it shouldn't be happening. Same as attempting to convince a lawyer to take a case, they too are ignorant as to the extent of abuse in these "insitutions".
This is the hump in the road...so to speak! Eventually, someone has to listen, or at least here me out! Most politicians that I have personally spoken with come off with the "buyer beware" slogan. Hell, even the lady with coffee in her lap got more than that from her issues?
Just my POV.
Regards,
Lee
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Hi, I myself disagree with alot of what all of you have been posting for a while. Anita, you want to know why your ex-husband is not taking pictures of the bruises? Well I can tell you. It is because they aren't there. There isn't a parent in the world that would spend the money to send their kid to these schools, and then when their kid came home with bruises do absolutly nothing.
I personnaly applaud your husband. My point of saying that was not to piss you off. But it takes a lot of perserverance to stand up and admit that he(and you) couldn't handle your son and then take another step and send him away. Especially when I bet you have been very uncooperative throughout the process. Why have you not wanted your son to kick his drug habbit? There are all of these parents on these forums that post all of this stuff about the program, about the abuse and all the other stuff. While there kids are doing drugs, and dangling by very little. Do you not understand that if something didn't change in your sons life you would probably be burying him, and then you would probably be on these sites bitching that the program couldn't save your son.
Lee, well I completely disagree with you. I don't think that the politicians should listen to you. Why? Because there is nothing going on at these facilities. I was at Spring Creek for 13 months and in that time I never heard a single case of abuse. I never heard the "screams" that so many that have never been there insist there is. When I graduated I got to meet many others from all the other facilities, well. No abuse there either. Why is it the only one's that cry abuse are the ones that pull there kids and then when there kids come home the kid convinces his or her parents all there horrible lies about the Program. When in reality they just don't want to admit that they had a problem. If they talk about how bad the program is, it takes the focus off of them and it keeps you busy doing this instead of being a parent. Guess what? I bet your son or daughter still is doing the same drugs, sleeping with the same people as before. You did waste your time and money, you didn't give it enough time. And worst of all your kid convinced you of complete bull shit and they know it. Imagine what else they lie to you about.
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dear Brown,
You are so wrong about my son's case, you have no idea! You are presumptuous at best, and based on nothing factual. Here are some facts in this case:
My son's dad is an alcoholic, has anger issues (has beaten up two wives, me being one of them), is living with an alcoholic wife currently, smokes pot, throws big parties, and ignores the kids.
"Dad" put my son into Casa because Dad's wife has problems with my son, in addition to problems with her own 3 kids. Dad's wife owns the house they live in, in fact, she even owns the car Dad drives....get the picture yet?
At no time was my son arrested or diagnosed with a drug problem (he was never even given a drug test!) Meanwhile, Dad and wife get drunk and abusive frequently. They never even took him to counseling, much less they would never go to such a thing.
"Dad" took no photos on the bruises and bumps because Dad is quite embarrassed and angry that 1. he sent our son to a place like that without researching it... "gee, I didn't know..."
2. Dad now looks like a fool for choosing this place, and Dad hates looking stupid, his pride is so huge it won't allow such things.
3. Now Dad has to actually do some parenting, something he refuses to take responsiblity for. It will get in the way of his partying.
You know nothing about other people's circumstances and you have no right blasting others' decisions when you know nothing about what prompted them.
I love my son, despite your take on this. I objected when he wanted to live with his dad, because I knew what he'd be getting into. However, what typical 16 yr old wouldn't prefer to live with a parent with no rules as opposed to a parent with rules, and standards? The sad part is that certain states' courts let children essentially pick which parent they want to live with. Too bad the state doesn't pick up when the parent drops the ball.....
Thanks for listening.
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You know these program parents. A kid wears a black t-shirt and suddenly they think he's a closet junkie.
Timoclea
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Your right I do have no right to "blast" other people. But at least listen to this. The thing that I have always said about the programs is this. No kid is going to stay in an abusive situation. If there was all this abuse going on at Casa, how is it all of the 18 year olds there chose to stay. They would leave wouldn't they. And if your son was being abused by his dad, he would (under no circumstance) choose to live in the abusive enviroment, instead of with you.
I am incredibly sorry that you were beaten by him. And I do honestly believe that you were. I do believe that because of that you have a lot of emotion around your ex-husband. That turned into anger, and now because of that you might be "exaggereting" what your ex is really doing. If I am wrong, I am wrong. But if your son choose to live with him, don't take that out on him, by tearing apart the family even more.
If you ever do have absolute proof that your son is being abused, jump on it. But make sure you have absolute proof. And get your ex locked up, because no kid should ever be abused, EVER.
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If you're a happy camper, How is it that you came to do research on Stockholm Syndrome. Why did you and the other graduates even think to discuss whether or not abuse occured in your respective facilities?
I could be wrong, but the more I read your posts, the less you sound like a teen graduate and more like a spammer. ::spam::
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This seems to be getting personal, too personal.
It is apparent that you and I have differing views and will never agree on these subjects.
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You can think whatever the hell you want. I am not a "spammer", but I am not going to waste my time convincing you other wise.
You first asked why have I done research on Stockholms syndrome. I am in college, and I am psych major. That is why. That is also how I know all about the Bobo experiment.
You also asked why we would talk to other kids from other facilities about abuse. While in the program we here all sorts of rumors from other facilities. So when we got to get together with these other facilities we would ask. You know what we found. The same rumors that we had heard that were happening at other facilities those other facilities heard they were happening at even another facility.
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Brown, two-thumbs up for presenting a cogent, fact-based position. Too bad it?s falling on deaf ears within this swamp fever thread. I personally witnessed the care and compassion afforded the kids that were transported to San Diego over that fateful weekend. WWASP did everything imaginable to protect the kids and make them as comfortable as possible. Imagine you?re a school administrator faced with the situation of contacting the parents of 530+ kids or the kids will be placed in foster homes. And this occurs in Mexico. As ?concerned? parents you folks should be applauding the logistical hoops that WWASP had to jump though.
I don?t like to dwell on blame or fault but since most of you like to point fingers I?ll add one more thought. The Mexican Government placed these kids in an extremely dangerous situation. If there were allegations that required investigation, then an investigation should have taken place. In fact, Mexican Government officials visited the facility within the month prior to the closing. No concerns were discussed with school officials. I believe this was a knee-jerk reaction by the Mexican Government that reeks of political motivation. WWASP and Casa, unfortunately, were place in the middle.
I?m not trying to pick a fight with the parent of the bump-on-the-head kid but it?s a great example of assigning blame to an event. If the bump was undeserved then the Mexican Police is at fault. If it was deserved then the kid is at fault. It?s that simple. Casa and WWASP had nothing to do with it.
BTW?I?m not directly associated with WWASP or Premier but I do have a child in a facility. I?m also a firm believer that these specialty boarding schools are a tremendous help to the parents of some troubled teens.
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Just to let you know I have researched extensivly on these types of schools ( I am a psych graduate)It has been found that these schools dont work!
If Brown is a psych major, ask her, she would know.
I would appreciate if you read my links:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#63698 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6663&forum=9&start=20#63698)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#63699 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6663&forum=9&start=20#63699)
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I won?t even address your second link (#63699) because WWASP is not a ?Wilderness Program?. In your first link you failed to make a correlation between the study?s therapeutic approaches and WWASP?s approach other than ?group therapy?. WWASP embraces a multifaceted approach, including parental involvement, where group discussion and self-regulation aimed at accountability are ONE SMALL PART.
I?m not here to tell anybody that WWASP is an elixir for all teen problems. But I also don?t have respect for individuals that state ?these schools don?t work? based on weak research, or worse yet, no research at all. Not to spoil your 21-year old data, but I personally know over one hundred parents that believe in WWASP. And that data is from 2004.
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How many of those hundred parents have had their "troubled teen" home for five years or more and are still saying its the answer?
Well, never mind the goofy parents - how many of the kids are saying so five years out?
There are Programmed parents who haven't spoken to their kid in years that sing the programs praises; and parents who's kids have killed them selves who still say the program saved them - So, don't bother me with their crap.
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BuzzKill, you love to tear apart WWASP?s approach without providing an alternate. You also love to tear it apart with baseless arguments. I have much more respect for the guy that attempted to prove his point with weak data. Your approach is not uncommon for you swamp fever types.
Anyway, to answer your questions:
1) Over 50
2) I?ve only personally met a few, so it?s 5 out of 7.
3) Parents that understand the WWASP program are given a great gift: they don?t have to live their lives though their kids. If a kid chooses not to follow the parent?s value system it?s the kid?s choice. Why do you fault parents for that? Unless you believe parents should enable their kids to the point of not having a life of their own.
4) WWASP is not responsible for teens killing themselves. If a teen killed themself at home are the parents to blame? Should other kids within the same household be taken away if this happened? Should a high school be closed down if a suicide occurs there?
Again, you have no facts to back up your bull.
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Well, when your child gets out, I would like to hear yor views then, Honda. You are a proponent for these type of programs now, but it is after your kids get out that you will really know what happened and how it affected your kids. That being that you still talk to your kid after the programs over. You say my data's old, but where's your data? I mean real data with statistical evidence, not just case reports? I think that you can't truly DIS on my data until you find some to back your side up.
Also, you have not attended any of these types of schools, as I have. You really have no right to spew over our views if you yourself are not a survivor.
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As a parent, I have gone through the program. It?s really opened my eyes to the baggage I carried into the family dynamic and the old patterns I had created. I?m excited, scared, anxious, nervous for my teen to come home, as any caring parent would be. I feel sad that things didn?t work out for you. I never said WWASP?s approach was a guaranteed cure all. You were the one making broad-brush statements that these schools don?t work. My point was oftentimes they do work.
I find it interesting that you can?t accept my firsthand case reports as data that has no statistical relevance. I?m sure given a couple of hours, a cup of coffee, and a few google searches I could find papers, written by PhDs no doubt, that support my claims. Because, as you?ve graphically demonstrated, there?s studies out there that can prove anything.
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Saying you went through the program doesn't exactly help your position, when one of the accusations against the program is that it practices brainwashing. Some independant, trained, 3rd party review might though.
The only stuff I've read about how the seminars actually work is that they use emotional breakdowns and psychological stress as their 'group therapy' which is very much a very easy way to make you believe whatever they want you to.
Intimidation, ridicule and just basically humiliation and a breakdown treats nothing.
We're also fully aware that the program can do no wrong and its not okay to say it does, and your communication with your child was cut off or you were told to not believe them.
Go 'coach' other people. This is nothing new.
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Honda Rider says... "I find it interesting that you can?t accept my firsthand case reports as data that has no statistical relevance. I?m sure given a couple of hours, a cup of coffee, and a few google searches I could find papers, written by PhDs no doubt, that support my claims. Because, as you?ve graphically demonstrated, there?s studies out there that can prove anything."
:skull:
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Honda wrote:
I?M NOT DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH WWASP or Premier but I do have a child in a facility. I?m also a firm believer that these specialty boarding schools are a tremendous help to the parents of some troubled teens.
Then makes these comments:
I PERSONALLY WITNESSED the care and compassion afforded the kids that were transported to San Diego over that fateful weekend. WWASP did everything imaginable to protect the kids and make them as comfortable as possible.
Not to spoil your 21-year old data, BUT I PERSONALLY KNOW OVER ONE HUNDRED PARENTS THAT BELIEVE IN WWASP. And that data is from 2004.
In your first link you failed to make a correlation between the study?s therapeutic approaches and WWASP?s approach other than ?group therapy?. WWASP EMBRACES A MULTIFACETED APPROACH, INCLUDING PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT, where group discussion and self-regulation aimed at accountability are ONE SMALL PART.
A home contract establishes a set of values for the home and rules for parents and kids to follow. It is a simple tool for promoting accountability. WWASP DOES NOT DICTATE WHAT THE HOME CONTRACT LOOKS LIKE.
PARENTS THAT UNDERSTAND THE WWASP PROGRAM ARE GIVEN A GREAT GIFT: they don?t have to live their lives though their kids. If a kid chooses not to follow the parent?s value system it?s the kid?s choice.
AS A PARENT, I HAVE GONE THROUGH THE PROGRAM. It?s really opened my eyes to the baggage I carried into the family dynamic and the old patterns I had created. I?m excited, scared, anxious, nervous for my teen to come home, as any caring parent would be. I feel sad that things didn?t work out for you. I never said WWASP?s approach was a guaranteed cure all. You were the one making broad-brush statements that these schools don?t work. My point was oftentimes they do work.
I find it interesting that YOU CAN'T ACCEPT MY FIRSTHAND CASE REPORTS as data that has no statistical relevance.
***********
Honda,
If your child is in a different program, how is it that you are such an ?expert? on WWASP? Why would anyone give preference to your opinions about this program over the parents who are here sharing their direct experience?
I notice that you accuse others of making broad-brush statements about WWASP, while you have done the same thing, and don?t even have a child in one of their programs.
If your so knowledgeable and supportive of W, why is your child somewhere else? And how is it that you ?personally? witness what happened at CASA. And how did you come to know ?over one hundred parents? who believe in W?
Are you and Ed Con or Escort who happens to have a child in another program, but defend all programs because you have a vested interest?
You reek of Spam.
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Spam, I think not. Who said my child was in a different program? Just to clear things up. I currently have a teen in a WWASP facility and he?s doing great. He?s been there since November 2003. You?re assumptions led you in a different direction based on your beliefs about WWASP. That?s kind of prejudice of you, right. I?ll have to get back to the issues addressed in the other posts sometime in the next couple of days. I?ve got more productive things to do today.
Later guys?it?s been fun debating all of you.
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//BuzzKill, you love to tear apart WWASP?s approach without providing an alternate.//
WWASP needs tearing apart - if thats how you want to put it, in my opinion. They ought to be sitting in prison, in my opinion, and I hope they will be before to much longer. I would be, if I had treated my kid the way they did, and this is a fact.
// You also love to tear it apart with baseless arguments.//
Everything I said to you is based on fact. I know for a fact, because I was part of it and I know well how it all works.
// I have much more respect for the guy that attempted to prove his point with weak data. Your approach is not uncommon for you swamp fever types. //
I don't often bother with stats because I know others will; and do a better job of it than I could. I stick to my experience and my sons and what I have learned from talking to dozens of program kids and parents. I think thats a pretty good data source.
"Swap fever type"?
Really? Why not just call me a stupid cracker?
Or a Chattering Pig or a BMW?
This reaction of yours is part of the programming - the cultish need to devalue anyone who rocks the boat. "No need to consider this persons point of view; they are just a swamp fever type".
Anyway, to answer your questions:
1) Over 50
Over 50 WHAT? Kids out over five years? I do a little doubt it.
2) I?ve only personally met a few, so it?s 5 out of 7.
Again, 5 out of 7 - do you mean 5 to 7 - and 5 to 7 what?
3) Parents that understand the WWASP program are given a great gift: they don?t have to live their lives though their kids.
Do you really think you needed to be programmed to learn this simple fact?
//If a kid chooses not to follow the parent?s value system it?s the kid?s choice.//
No one here is going to tell you otherwise. Thats the point.
// Why do you fault parents for that? //
I don't. But the program does.
//Unless you believe parents should enable their kids to the point of not having a life of their own. //
Of corse not; But, I DO fault parents who abandon their 18 year old in a strange city with no family or friends or money or education or job skills simply b/c they are good program parents. Its appalling and horrific and the one shinning example of how the program alienates parents and children from one another.
4) WWASP is not responsible for teens killing themselves.
If they accept a mentally ill kid into their program, then they are responsible for the outcome. Unless the parents lied and told WWASP the girl was of sound mind (which they admit in their own statement was not the case) then they had no business accepting her into their care. The Program is damaging for any kid; but for the "fragile" as they admit she was - it is Grossly inappropriate! They Are liable, in my opinion, and I hope the parents aren't so blinded by grief they can't see it.
//If a teen killed themself at home are the parents to blame? //
Not usually - but this does not mean never. In some cases they are responsible and in some cases have been tried and convicted for it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/ ... 0507.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/28/60II/main580507.shtml)
Heres an example where I think both the parent and the program are responsible:
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/des ... esp1.shtml (http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/desperate/site-desperate/0702desp1.shtml)
//Should other kids within the same household be taken away if this happened?//
See above.
//Should a high school be closed down if a suicide occurs there? //
If it is an abusive and neglectful locked down facility, Yes.
//Again, you have no facts to back up your bull. //
As far as I am concerned, everything I say to you is based on facts. http://isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html (http://isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html)
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-10-16 14:05 ][ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-10-16 14:36 ]
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Speaking of studies:
Pubdate: 16 October 2004
Source: Dallas Morning News
Contact: http://www.dallasnews.com/ (http://www.dallasnews.com/)
Webpage:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 92a68.html (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/101604dnnatyouth.92a68.html)
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Panel: 'Scare tactics' don't cut teen crime
Boot camps may raise violence, says report that backs counseling
08:36 PM CDT on Friday, October 15, 2004
Associated Press
WASHINGTON ? Boot camps and other "get tough" programs for adolescents do not prevent crime and may make the problem even worse, an expert panel concluded Friday.
Laws transferring juveniles into the adult court system lead these teens to commit more violence, and there is no proof they deter others from committing crime, the panel said.
More promising, it said, are programs that offer intensive counseling for families and young people at risk.
The 13-member panel of experts, convened by the National Institutes of Health, reviewed the available scientific evidence to look for consensus on causes of youth violence and ways to prevent it.
" 'Scare tactics' don't work," the panel concluded in its report, released Friday. "Programs that seek to prevent violence through fear and tough treatment do not work."
Youth violence has declined from its peak a decade ago, but violent crime rates are still high, the panel said.
Violence can be traced to a variety of possible factors: inconsistent or harsh parenting, poor peer relations, gang involvement, lack of connection to school and living in a violent neighborhood.
The trouble with boot camps, group detention centers and other "get tough" programs is they bring together young people who are inclined toward violence and who teach each other how to commit more crime, the panel said: "The more sophisticated [teens] instruct the more naive in precisely the behaviors that the intervener wishes to prevent."
It also rejected programs that "consist largely of adults lecturing," like DARE.
One barrier to implementing effective programs, the report said, is resistance from people operating ineffective programs who depend on them for their jobs.
"All the evaluations have shown they don't work," said the panel's chair, Dr. Robert L. Johnson of the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey. "Many communities are wasting a great deal of money on those types of programs."
The panel looked for programs tested using rigorous research methods and concluded that "the good news is that there are a number of intervention programs that have been shown" effective.
The report cited two: a therapy program where youth and their families attend 12 one-hour sessions over three months, and a community-based clinical treatment program that targeted violent and chronic offenders at risk of being removed from their families. This second program provided about 60 hours of counseling over about four months with therapists available at all hours.
One key, Dr. Johnson said, was letting counselors observe families and children together and offer suggestions for better parenting.
Both programs reduced arrest rates and out-of-home placements, with positive effects four years after treatment ended.
The report identified six other programs that seemed to work but that hadn't been studied as closely, including Big Brothers Big Sisters, a nurse-family partnership program and Project Towards No Drug Abuse.
The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest possible limits. ... and [when] the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.
-- St. George Tucker, Judge of the Virginia Supreme Court 1803
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So, Honda, kid doing great...
Whats your current state of communication like with him? If he had any complaints with the program what would you do to handle it? Would you believe it? Did they tell you not to?
Have you seen him without having the program involved since you had in incarcerated in it? (Like, just you and your kid, not you and your kid with the programs rules and agenda) Were there any uncensored phonecalls if you haven't seen him in person? What about Mail? What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult.
-- Sigmund Freud
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I still find it hard to believe that there are parents who will allow a WWASP program to raise their child for an entire year or more. There have been so many reports of abuse - how can anyone in good conscience do this to a child? WWASP should not be treating children with diagnosed mental illnesses.
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Wow, it looks like I missed a lot today. Let?s take care of the easy things first?
Yes, he?s doing great. We talk to our son twice a month. We?ve had two off-grounds visits with him. If there were a report of abuse I would personally investigate it and personally take action based on the results. He is in the counselor?s office when the phone calls take place. His incoming or outgoing mail isn?t censored.
Antigen has provided an article for everybody to read but yet couldn?t write an intelligent point describing why it was applicable. I guess my question is, what if the one hour per week family counseling and the 60 hours of teen counseling doesn?t work? Oh my gosh, would a more restrictive inpatient program like WWASP be the next logical step.
BuzzKill, you?re not rocking my boat. You?re completely lost. Can you tie your own shoes? You had four questions/comments that were addressed. If you can?t connect the dots I won?t do it for you.
As a general comment?the decision to place him in WWASP was tough. I visited the school, I talked to other parents and was presented with both the pros and the cons. It was never described as having a 100% success rate. I?m intelligent enough to know there aren?t any guarantees in life. Before placing him in the facility, we tried the 10 hours per week of counseling, taking away privileges, restriction, daily monitoring of grades, and talking to him. None of it worked.
The point you guys are missing is that teens react differently to therapeutic approaches. For some teens the counselor thing works. But for some it doesn?t. You guys are deluded if you think that parents don?t use WWASP as a last resort. Don?t throw this ?he?s just being a teen? garbage back at me because it won?t stick.
Oh, by the way, the cult and deprogramming cracks are downright hilarious! And not a coherent point from any of you. Come on, you guys can do better than that.
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Yes Honda Rider, actually you have missed quite a bit. You get 2 conversations a month with your kid. Why can't you talk to him every day? And, how long was it before you got to talk to him the first time after placement there? Kids that don't report problems advance, kids that attempt to report it get things like OP, 0 points, level one. There was a suicide in Spring Creek Lodge earlier this month. Did you know that even happened before coming to fornits? I bet his mail, if he ever sends any, goes to HQ in Utah before it comes to your house. If that isn't a cult behavior, what is? Oh, and did you sign that 0 tolerance sheet? :scared:
Aqua Fortis :skull:
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Aqua Fortis:
You?re such an ignorant, enabling pinhead. You have no idea who I am or what my situation was before or after making an emotionally tough decision for my son. Of course I knew what happened at SCLA. Within hours of it happening to be precise. Do you honestly think this godforsaken BBS has a corner on the happenings within the Teen Help Industry? Oh, I forgot, omnipotence permeates within you fornits folks. You guys can actually tell me what?s going to happen five years down the road. Maybe you can use those mystical powers to give me the lotto numbers for next week.
Again, no intelligent points made by you. Just vile hatred and conspiracy theories (is this just the facts: ?I bet his mail, if he ever sends any, goes to HQ in Utah before it comes to your house. If that isn't a cult behavior, what is??). I was willing to have an intelligent debate on the pros and cons of the teen help industry. In specific, WWASP?s approach as a suitable form of therapeutic remedy GIVEN there are recognized alternates. Unfortunately, I?m at a point where I find it impossible since you and your pack of brown shirts lack the ability to write coherent fact-based positions. You continually demonstrate that you don?t know what the heck you?re talking about. It?s just an ISAC-style, scripted smear campaign: no dialog, just rants on abuse, cults, deprogramming, and misinformation. Really, what are you guys afraid of? Go ahead and feed on this swamp fever rhetoric because it suits you guys just fine.
This has become a grand waste of my precious time. You can have your BBS back. I have much better things to do.
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http://orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html (http://orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html)
excerpt:
Those children's concentration camps have a cult-like hierarchical power structure:
The leader becomes the unquestionable guru whose word is law, an arrogant Pharaoh surveying his kingdom.
The staff become the inner circle of followers, sycophants who toady up to the leader, and then turn around and act like insufferable little martinets towards the children over whom they have power.
Sometimes a third concentric ring of power develops, where some of the most senior of the children -- the "old-comers" -- become bullying slave-drivers for the staff, carrying out the orders of those above them, and abusing the smaller children below them. (That was the case at the Buffalo Soldiers' camp. When Anthony Haynes died, he was actually under the direct command of a 17-year-old boy whose name the sheriff did not release. See below.)
Then those camps usually teach some kind of fascist dogma or philosophy which is supposed to reform the kids. All of the dogma is unquestionably correct, of course, because the guru is never wrong. And all of the usual brainwashing and indoctrination techniques are used, of course. In 1974, the US Senate published a study which accused The Seed (the Straight precursor) of using methods which it likened to Communist brainwashing techniques.
Other forms of behavior modification techniques employ intensive "encounter sessions" in which individuals are required to participate in group therapy discussions where intensive pressure is often placed on the individuals to accept the attitudes of the group... Once the individual is submissive, his personality can begin to be reformed around attitudes determined by the program director to be acceptable. Similar to the highly refined "brainwashing" techniques employed by the North Koreans in the early nineteen fifties, the method is used in the treatment of drug abusers... "The Seed", a drug abuse treatment program in Florida that, until recently, received funding from the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, is based on a similar philosophy.
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND THE FEDERAL ROLE IN BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION by the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, UNITED STATES SENATE, Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights, November, 1974, pp. 15 - 16 describing The Seed.
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http://orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html (http://orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html)
one more point:
Those children's concentration camps have a cult-like hierarchical power structure:
The leader becomes the unquestionable guru whose word is law, an arrogant Pharaoh surveying his kingdom.
The staff become the inner circle of followers, sycophants who toady up to the leader, and then turn around and act like insufferable little martinets towards the children over whom they have power.
Sometimes a third concentric ring of power develops, where some of the most senior of the children -- the "old-comers" -- become bullying slave-drivers for the staff, carrying out the orders of those above them, and abusing the smaller children below them. (That was the case at the Buffalo Soldiers' camp. When Anthony Haynes died, he was actually under the direct command of a 17-year-old boy whose name the sheriff did not release. See below.)
Then those camps usually teach some kind of fascist dogma or philosophy which is supposed to reform the kids. All of the dogma is unquestionably correct, of course, because the guru is never wrong. And all of the usual brainwashing and indoctrination techniques are used, of course. In 1974, the US Senate published a study which accused The Seed (the Straight precursor) of using methods which it likened to Communist brainwashing techniques.
Other forms of behavior modification techniques employ intensive "encounter sessions" in which individuals are required to participate in group therapy discussions where intensive pressure is often placed on the individuals to accept the attitudes of the group... Once the individual is submissive, his personality can begin to be reformed around attitudes determined by the program director to be acceptable. Similar to the highly refined "brainwashing" techniques employed by the North Koreans in the early nineteen fifties, the method is used in the treatment of drug abusers... "The Seed", a drug abuse treatment program in Florida that, until recently, received funding from the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, is based on a similar philosophy.
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND THE FEDERAL ROLE IN BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION by the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, UNITED STATES SENATE, Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights, November, 1974, pp. 15 - 16 describing The Seed.
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Plus, many of the other standard cult characteristics show up, like:
Cult-Speak,
Group-Think,
mentally-disturbed leaders,
lies and deceit about the real nature of the camp -- especially deceiving the parents about what is being done to their children,
strict regimentation,
time and environmental control,
a system of rewards and punishments,
and sarcastic, sneering 'personal attacks on critics' -- that is, attacks on any child who dares to criticize or object to the treatment or the philosophy.
And "Dual Purposes": While all of that is going on, the boot camps and other children's gulags still advertise themselves as wonderful rehabilitation centers, saving the children from lives wasted by drugs, alcohol, and crime, and the gulags solicit funds from charities and government agencies alike, to continue their "good work."
It's funny how so many politicians and bureaucrats imagine that Buchenwald look-alikes will be good for getting children off of drugs. It does not seem to ever occur to them that child abuse and bad environments are often what drove the kids to drugs in the first place.
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***You can have your BBS back.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
As if you ever took it. Control freak.
Want to debate?
How bout visiting this thread and answering the many questions that were never responded to:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 65&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3865&forum=9)
WWASP defenders have a reputation here. One of avoiding questions, lying and manipulating, and attempting to control or discredit other people who are telling their personal experiences. One thing you can always count on. When the hard questions come up, they suddenly have better things to do.
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WWASP defenders have a reputation here. One of avoiding questions, lying and manipulating, and attempting to control or discredit other people who are telling their personal experiences. One thing you can always count on. When the hard questions come up, they suddenly have better things to do.
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
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What is one of your "hard" questions? Or what are your "many" hard questions? Are you not hearing what you want to hear and want another answer, or what? In a nutshell, I don't want, nor have time, to go through 32 pages of dialogue.
I know what Honda Rider meant by giving you back your BBS. He's giving it back to the majority who will never accept the positive side, which is still the majority out here in the real world. Deborah, control freak? Look in the mirror along with Buzzkill (Karen, does your pseudo mean WWASPS KILL??)
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There have been thousands of kids and parents who have experienced a wwasp program, and it seems to me that out of all the sites trying to discredit thier programs maybe %1 are posting here and other places and %1 may be generous.
It is just hard to belive that thousands of people are involved in some conspiracy or cover up. I'm sorry i don't buy it.
The one that cares
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On 2004-10-17 11:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
WWASP defenders have a reputation here. One of avoiding questions, lying and manipulating, and attempting to control or discredit other people who are telling their personal experiences. One thing you can always count on. When the hard questions come up, they suddenly have better things to do.
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: "
I don't see the WWASPS defenders avoiding, lying, manipulating or attempting to control - I do see the discrediting part - Discrediting the rants is the purpose in being here. Now ask all the questions you want to, and see who is manipulating and controlling the truth.
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Hey! :???: Does anyone remember that this thread is about CASA CLOSING.....
just a reminder for the WWASP "unofficial" representative/defender.
And, by the way, I'm with my son today, right now, he was one of the liberated kids when that hell hole was shut down. And, no, I wasn't the one who put him there.
Anita
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***What is one of your "hard" questions?
Would you find it acceptable if I deemed you to be an unfit parent, showed up at your home in the middle of the night and abducted you? Told you nothing about where you were going or how long you'd be there. Then kept you isolated from the world and your loved ones while subjecting you to ridiculous standards, my philosophy of the world and relationships, and austere and abusive consequences. Forcing you to lie face down for days on end. Telling you daily what a miserable human specimen you are, not to mention a pathetic role model for a teen; and encouraged your family members to write letters to that effect. And if I convinced your family that you were a habitual liar and manipulator who was always blaming someone else (teenagers) for your problems. If I screened your mail and refused phone calls.
If I made toilet paper and condiments available only when you showed signs of adopting my "no warehousing of teens" philosophy. If I had my goons drop you to the floor and twist your arm behind your back, just short of injury; every time you resisted a command or anytime you smiled, laughed, cried; looked out a window or moved from one room to another without permission. If I made you listen to tapes by my prefered parental gurus for hours on end everyday. If I refused to allow you to leave to attend your grandfather's funeral or any other important family event. If I allowed you no TV, radio, newpapers. If I allowed you 2 minute showers, cold more times than not.
I could go on, but you get the picture.
So the questions are:
How would that make you feel?
Would you feel good about yourself or just do what you had to to get the hell out as soon as possible?
What effect might this have on your attitude and personality over a two to three year period?
Do you think you might try to escape or contact a friend to take legal action on your behalf?
Do you really believe that this is 'therapy' in any sense of the word?
Can you provide links to research that shows this austere and abusive modality to be a viable treatment venue for ANYONE, much less impressionable teens?
***I know what Honda Rider meant by giving you back your BBS.
Of course you do, your both of the control freak ilk who fear teens and haven't a clue how to be in relationship with other human beings. A bunch of pathetic parents who feel victimized by their kids, all the while professing to be in charge of the choices they make- ie. not victims. A pathetic lot you are.
***He's giving it back to the majority who will never accept the positive side, which is still the majority out here in the real world.
Sweetie, get this- he's not giving shit 'back', cause it was never his to give back. There is no positive side to see. Only in your deranged mind that needs to make teens the problem.
Perhaps one day you barbarians will wake up and realize that abuse is not the way to create positive, long-term changes in unhappy people.
In fact these warehouses are the antithesis of what is called for. Peak Intellegence has arrived.
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Deborah - Yes, I get the picture. I am confident that no one answered your questions because there's no reason to. The only thing true in your "metaphors" is there isn't t.v. except weekend movies, radios are an earned priviledge for the upper levels. Important news is shared by staff or parents. The rest should be used as puppy training paper.
We only hear or read the first part of your delusion from kids who convinced their parents they were being abused and twisted their stories to what you wrote, or from the parents themselves who are enabling their child to pull the wool over their eyes and bring them home from the big bad program. Oh, yea, forgot about the noncustodial parents or the parents that still want to tell the staff how to do their jobs.
No, I don't have links to research. I prefer to go by what I personally know. It works for the majority of families I personally know because they wanted it to many years down the road. That's good enough for me.
Who said we blame the teens? Go to the first seminar called Discovery - that's sometimes the first clue the parents accept they are a part of the breakdown.
I wouldn't call you pathetic. You have your view, I have my facts.
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The typical response.
Most of the metaphoric scenerio I used was not from disgruntled parents and participants. Those are things that the program and parents admit are part of the 'treatment'.
So, remove the abuse that you can't consider, and answer the question. Is this a respectful way to treat another human being?
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Speaking of cold hard facts... If you placed your child in a WWASP program, Honda Rider, you as the parent or other legal guardian of the child were required to have signed a "form" which included either a similar or identical statement to the following:
The Sponsors understand that *insert WWASP facility name* does not own, control, direct or manage Tranquility Bay or the independent transport company. Therefore, *insert WWASP facility name* does not assume any liability nor responsibility, implied or otherwise, for Tranquility Bay or the independent transport company. This would include the care of your child while at these Schools or during transportation. The parents/sponsors hereby agree to release and forever hold harmless *insert wwasp facility name* any liability connected with Tranquility Bay or the independent transport company.
Independent transport company? That is a synonomous term for escort service. You really signed that? ::bangin:: I doubt that Aqua Fortis is the ignorant one here.
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What about the kids, and there are some, who in no way deserve to be sent away to these programs? What if the parent or parents really are deranged? What if the parent is abusive? There exist many vindictive ex-spouses and self-centered step-parents who simply can't be bothered with raising a teenager. It doesn't matter if the child is doing well in school and not into drugs, they can be "Escorted" in the middle of the night and not be heard from again.
Where are the checks and balances in these facilities? Should custodial parents be able to banish their children simply because they have the power and the money to do so? Shouldn't there be an unbaised third party, a doctor, or therapist or judge who would help determine if a "Behavior Modification" facility is the right placement for a child?
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On 2004-10-17 13:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
There have been thousands of kids and parents who have experienced a wwasp program, and it seems to me that out of all the sites trying to discredit thier programs maybe %1 are posting here and other places and %1 may be generous.
Look closer. You'll notice that sites that tend to favor these programs also get paid to advertise for them. They also censor their forums, deleting any negative statements about the programs and banning the users who posted them.
They've tried (and failed :lol: ) to intimidate me as well. Not just WWASP, but also ALA and possibly others (I'd have to pull out the letters of demand and check to see if the sending program is or was WWASP at the time)
They (WWASP, other, similar programs and the minions of edCONs) also spend a lot on redundant websites, domain aliases and spamdexing, while the opposition is largely, if not entirely, a volunteer effort.
Some of these brave kids who do post their stories risk various kinds of reprisal by their parents in so doing.
And, as evidenced in the Desperate Measures article ( http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp1.shtml (http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/site-desperate/0702desp1.shtml) )even when a kid shoots himself in the head right in front of his mother in response to a threat to be sent back to a WWASP facility, sometimes the parents are so thoroughly brainwashed that they still swear eternal gratitude and faith to the Program. I certainly hope you're not that far gone. Probably not, though, or you wouldn't be curious enough to talk w/ us.
I hope you bring your kid home soon and that you're able to overcome any damage to your family.
If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race?
--Frederic Bastiat -- 1801-1850
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.