Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 19, 2004, 12:19:00 PM
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What's going on?
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Only those who have worked for CEDU or as therapists can understand this. It is an evil company, top-down. Perhaps he was threatened.
On 2004-06-19 09:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What's going on?"
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It's gotta be something like that because why else would he do that? His post struck me as very honest.
Has any former therapist/staff been directly threatened? or is it more indirect? This is terrible!
Can ex-staff band together and spill what they know to authorities? I mean, if its collective action, isn't there strength in numbers? Or am I totally naive?
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Also, I was re-reading old posts--some wanted verification they weren't plants. How do you know when its a plant by CEDU? How do you avoid being lured in by a plant? How protected are these sites? (OK, Hell on W.--have mercy on me and don't give me a tirade on paranoia.)
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heh. No, I'm not a paranoid dude, but I'll go with that one, I'm betting there may have been a couple of plants. It's all in how it is written, I think. You can tell genuine, if you've been there. If you haven't been there, then you will buy it, but so many of us have :razz:
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[ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2004-08-01 22:42 ]
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Well, it seems impossible thta CEDU would be protected from their own staff blowing the whistle on the school. Also, if the lawyer didn't get back to you, that is just one disinterested dude. Others would be happy to help, I believe. Still, it would probably be easier, less frightening, and more productive if ex-staff hired one lawyer and worked together.
The other thing is what about publishing an article, a cautionary tale, in both trade and general interest magazines? YOu can cloak the identity of the actual school (thus removing yourself from liability) but still relate the story so it can be heard.
I really want the story told.
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Because, like the mafia, CEDU comes after you and your family - these posting places don't get that they will kill - kill - kill
Yet, parents will send their kids to them, and trust them - let me know how dealing with the mafia works out huh?
M
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OK M. Read the post on Need Help in RMA (topic list). Remember how you told me how you can legally get help, get pulled, and the resources that are available to that end? Well, those tips are edited out and this kid needs help. Please respond to him...
Also, have you been threatened? We all need to know.
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M, it's me again. I wish you didn't edit out your posts. They are VERY helpful to people visiting this site for the first time who need vindication.
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Tell Ya what. I'll post annomously and and let yaall know if it is me at the bottom. I am afraid of them, and, for gods sake, I am not a "plant" why would a plant tell thge truth about the place?
If there is. or ever was, a plant it would be Hell on Wheels, because he basicly says nothing but things that would discredit us all. I think he is John Aaron and the pictures are a diversion. Everybody has pics of themselves.
Maximus
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On 2004-06-28 13:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
If there is. or ever was, a plant it would be Hell on Wheels, because he basicly says nothing but things that would discredit us all. I think he is John Aaron and the pictures are a diversion. Everybody has pics of themselves.
Maximus
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::bwahaha:: Are you being serious?
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Maximus is a bitch. He's on his own little God trip, but it somehow didn't jive with CEDU. Just like a few others I won't mention here. If you think for a minute I am John Aaron, maybe y'all should read a few posts and decide for yourselves. Shit, a few folks on this board know me personally, so either they are fuckin' retards too...... or it's just you. CYA tool. :wave:
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Its obvious to me that M (if he indeed is Maximus) is suffering from delusions. He is obviously fucking around here. He learned well his little mind tricks but you can't con a con.
Mafia? Give me a fucking break.
Listen I won't post (non-anonymously) about some of the places I've been in the last 14 years since I went to CEDU, but I'm not scared one FUCKING bit about CEDU or any of its affiliates.
So to you M, if all you want to do is spread FEAR around this forum, get the FUCK OUT OF HERE!!! and go back to CEDU you dumb motherfucker!
just one man's opinion.
Hell on Wheels- I trust you.
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Guys, sometimes I post anon and sometimes I don't. But don't be so hard on M. When I first started on this site after never talking about CEDU for 15 years, some of the posts by Roy, Jack, and Max helped out in terms of being vindicated about this experience. I split--so I was cut off from ever talking about it with people who actually lived through the experience. I had my own thoughts on the place but I honestly felt like everyone thought CEDU ws the second coming of Christ. All along I'm thinking this is a crappy school, crappy therapy, and mental and verbal abuse by pople who have no idea what therapeutic means. I ws happy as a pig in shit to just work my ass off in work detail so I didn't have to deal with BS "therapy." Actually, the wilderness stuff and work details (digging ditches, pipelines, running wheel barrels filled with logs for half a mile and back over and over again were the best therapy CEDU offered me. I was such a lameass girl with a fragile image too afraid to do anything for failure that putting all my energy into hard work was the only thing therapeutic for me. That and splitting did wonders for the old "fragile" gal mindset.
Anyway, I digress. Sorry. I guess healthy dissent is a good thing, but I'd sincerely like it if you guys had a dialogue about it then a one-up battle. Keeps us stronger, too. I genuinely care about the people on these posts even though the Internet breeds almost a pseudo-intimacy.
I mean Hell freaked me the hell out too until I read more and saw more nuances. I came to understand him a lot better.
And honestly, it I was worried when B. gave a shout out to all the splitting kids. 'Cause I honestly feel it would play right into CEDU's hands and you have two beautiful children to be there for. I am a single mom of two small children too, and they would be lost without their father.
Actually I just thought of something. We should do a what to do/ not to do when trying to split. A "How To"....for both RS and RMA. Maybe the kid can have our phone numbers so the parents can call us as adults so we can verify what their kid is saying.
PEACE OUT!
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Is there any way you can copy over the info you had on leaving CEDU? YOu had a great post about some resources being better than others. I think it would be helpful to paste it in.
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Whatever,
I care about nothing anyone says or thinks about me or my posts - not one molocule of care or concern.
Peace
Max
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Also,
Sorry, but I cannot revive deleted posts.
Max
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Thank you for your support. I edited out my posts because, as I said:
"And suffering is not a badge of honor. Experiencing tyranny does not deserve a bow or a kiss. The honor is in removing the stumbling stone. The honor is in the impolite destruction of tyranny through honest, powerful dialogue - not etiquette. Not political correctness." -- Maximus
And I was getting questioned as if I had no right to question freely. I have seen these boards taken over by pro CEDU forces and I was questioning the legitimacy of board. Frankly, I think after hearing the heated spewing of worthless anarchistic, self important paranoia with a non-political adolescent agenda we can all conclude that, I was wrong, these folks are harmless as piss ants.
Therefore,I will continue to speak up in spite of the attention seekers and weak minded blow hards who have no greater gift than profanity and hate. Perhaps these folks needed CEDU, or perhaps they are sick because of CEDU. I just know they are sick and I will continue to ignore them such as they deserve.
Let's stay on task and not get pulled off track by these CEDU students or staff who are lacking in morality, critical thinking skills and IQ.
Now, as I remember, we were talking about an organized protest before this irrelivant pissing competition started. Can we stay on course?
As much as I enjoy hearing my effect on these morons, I am not patronizing these idiots anymore. Nither should you. It is futile. I want to dialogue with the intelligent people. I am referring to Jack, chisink and all the other therapist and authentic students and staff who have a real agenda that goes beyond being on stage and throwing a tantrum.
"And suffering is not a badge of honor. Experiencing tyranny does not deserve a bow or a kiss. The honor is in removing the stumbling stone. The honor is in the impolite destruction of tyranny through honest, powerful dialogue - not etiquette. Not political correctness."
I DID NOT SAY NARCISSISM AND STUPIDITY WERE EFFECTIVE. THEY ARE NOT
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"Frankly, I think after hearing the heated spewing of worthless anarchistic, self important paranoia with a non-political adolescent agenda we can all conclude that, I was wrong, these folks are harmless as piss ants. "-Maximus
Well at least I woke you up. I mean come on- the mafia? kill,kill,kill? What are you smoking?-
"Therefore,I will continue to speak up in spite of the attention seekers and weak minded blow hards who have no greater gift than profanity and hate. Perhaps these folks needed CEDU, or perhaps they are sick because of CEDU. I just know they are sick and I will continue to ignore them such as they deserve. "-Maximus
Okay, now at the end of my post, I said just one man's opinion. I don't know the facts about a god damn thing. But some folks needed CEDU? Fuck you. Some "niggers" needed there asses hung too, right? Some "kikes" needed to get burned too right? Some children needed to get brainwashed, humiliated in front of their peers, exploited and stripped of all there rights as a human being too, right? Fuck you I again say.
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"Let's stay on task and not get pulled off track by these CEDU students or staff who are lacking in morality, critical thinking skills and IQ. "
-Maximus
You again attempt to spread fear and paranoia. I think most people on this site can see right through you. Again, you are trying to put people through the CEDU treatment by trying to propagate YOUR OWN IDEA of what morality is. We had enough of that shit at CEDU asshole.
"As much as I enjoy hearing my effect on these morons, I am not patronizing these idiots anymore. Neither should you. It is futile. I want to dialogue with the intelligent people."
-Maximus
I do believe Machiavelli, Mussolini, Mel Wasserman, and Hitler made the same kind of comments. That's more of your fascist rhetoric. In other words, I have no right to dialogue with others of your superiority. Only the "intelligent people" can dialogue properly. The less intelligent don't know what they want as well as the more intelligent people do. That's how they excuse themselves at Cedu when they rape the minds of those poor kids.
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Why I edited myself out
Posted: 2004-06-30 15:22:00
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Whatever,
I care about nothing anyone says or thinks about me or my posts - not one molocule of care or concern.
Peace
Max
That's honest at least. You care nothing about anyone, so you edited out all the good advice in your posts. Fuck everybody but yourself right? "-not one molecule of care or concern." They're your words.
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"I DID NOT SAY NARCISSISM AND STUPIDITY WERE EFFECTIVE. THEY ARE NOT"-Maximus
Refer back to Maximus' answer to why he edited out his posts. He should heed his own advice that hypocrital bastard.-
"And suffering is not a badge of honor. Experiencing tyranny does not deserve a bow or a kiss. The honor is in removing the stumbling stone. The honor is in the impolite destruction of tyranny through honest, powerful dialogue - not etiquette. Not political correctness."
I agree wholeheartedly. You use the words "impolite" and "not etiquette" and "not political correctedness." Yet I am profane and immoral. You've already established yourself as the one capable of judging morality. So did Rudy Bentz, Pam, Martin Wiens, Guy Bonanno, Hitler, Stalin, Khmer Rouge, Reagan, Macarthur, the list of terrorists goes on. I'm impolite and immoral? Fuck you in the neck.
So as this is one man's opinion.
[ This Message was edited by: on 2004-07-02 12:04 ]
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Max: We need you to care. I don't like tossing peopele aside, we all gotta get in it together.
Felsher, HOW, come on let's tone down this one up party w/Max and embrace the our commonalities.
Maybe we should have our own CEDU reunuin party. THe CEDU SUX Party! We can agree on a place and make it happen!! what do you think, I'd love to meet the players. I am in Philadelphhia area, Laura and Jhni are in the midwest, max is inidaho, jack and roy and chinsk live....COME ON GUYS! Let's have a fun party and talk about CEDU and laugh away. Maybe we could come up with some objectives. I'm seriou. Let's do it!!!!!!!Whaddaya say??? I'm shanlea by the way
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Heck, we can do a theme thing--dress up as your least favoritr family head or propheet blah blah blah Come on guys I'm serious! Say you are in!
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It was me who wants a reunion of us CEDU Fornits folks. It could be fun.We can come as our favorite indictment. We can all agree on a place that is either central or where most people live cloe to.... Let's Do IT! ::cheers::
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Play dress-up? Laugh about CEDU? Party about it?
That's like Iraqi Prisoners from Abu Graib getting out and putting on fake electrocution outfits, and reenacting their humiliations for fun.
Count me out.
I'll celebrate with you guys when we've done something worth celebrating.
Until then the war is on.
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Shanlea,
I'm in Idaho and I am willing to meet for a peaceful fun get together and to plan your peaceful protest at a parent conference.
In Idaho, they have their conferences at the Coeur d'Alene Resort Hotel - see internet. I would be willing to provide beds and floors for protesters at my home. Also I can find out when and, if a different place, where they are going to have the conference. Any other ideas? Share them.
Thanks Max
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First,the "dress up as your favorite indictment" was a joke. Second, I wasn't trivializing the hell that was CEDU. I was simply suggesting that instead of just bitching, we should all get together because we all share a common bond. We can talk, bitch, and yes, laugh. Because laughter is strong medicine. We could also talk about the protest etc.
Bryan, I don't know a soul who went to CEDU except for those posting on the site. I guess I was just looking to bring us all together.
I was trying to be friendly and pardon me for not letting CEDU kill my sense of humor along with everything else they did.
Shanlea
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On 2004-06-30 21:43:00, Bryan Felsher wrote:
"Therefore,I will continue to speak up in spite of the attention seekers and weak minded blow hards who have no greater gift than profanity and hate. Perhaps these folks needed CEDU, or perhaps they are sick because of CEDU. I just know they are sick and I will continue to ignore them such as they deserve. "-Maximus
Okay, now at the end of my post, I said just one man's opinion. I don't know the facts about a god damn thing. But some folks needed CEDU? Fuck you. Some "niggers" needed there asses hung too, right? Some "kikes" needed to get burned too right? Some children needed to get brainwashed, humiliated in front of their peers, exploited and stripped of all there rights as a human being too, right? Fuck you I again say.
-Bryan Felsher
i think this was a miscommunication... well, i'd hope so, at least. it's not that these kids needed CEDU, they needed some form of effective therapy. unfortunately, CEDU does not provide such therapy due to it's unethical, standardized practices.
"Let's stay on task and not get pulled off track by these CEDU students or staff who are lacking in morality, critical thinking skills and IQ. "
-Maximus
You again attempt to spread fear and paranoia. My IQ is 161 if you're interested. I think most people on this site can see right through you. Again, you are trying to put people through the CEDU treatment by trying to propagate YOUR OWN IDEA of what morality is. We had enough of that shit at CEDU asshole.
-Bryan Felsher
IQs?? give me a break.. why don't you guys just bust out a ruler and measure up?
IQ tests aren't accurate tests of mental potential anyway; there's a lot more involved.
and who are you to say who is moral and who is not?
i'm with you on this one bryan.. what is and is not "moral" is a bit subjective, don't you think? i mean, hitler thought he was being moral... he was doing a noble cause for the "real" germans. a lot of us tend to think that we're doing the right thing and that others who don't live up to our standards are wrong; trust me, i'm a self-righteous bitch.
"As much as I enjoy hearing my effect on these morons, I am not patronizing these idiots anymore. Neither should you. It is futile. I want to dialogue with the intelligent people."
-Maximus
it's rather amusing how you're saying that you're no longer going to "patronize" these "morons/idiots". need i go any further to elaborate on what is wrong with such a statement???
I do believe Machiavelli, Mussolini, Mel Wasserman, and Hitler made the same kind of comments. That's more of your fascist rhetoric. In other words, I have no right to dialogue with others of your superiority. Only the "intelligent people" can dialogue properly. The less intelligent don't know what they want as well as the more intelligent people do. That's how they excuse themselves at Cedu when they rape the minds of those poor kids.
-Bryan Felsher
ever read the writings of friedrich nietzsche?
"I DID NOT SAY NARCISSISM AND STUPIDITY WERE EFFECTIVE. THEY ARE NOT"-Maximus
honestly, i don't think you're one to bash on narcissism based on the posts that i've just responded to. well, i guess that is all a part of the narcissistic paradox... so, preach on, brotha. :roll:
so, i just hopped into this debate. i'm really ignorant, i just posted in response to the posts i saw; i really know nothing about you max, and i'll be the first to admit it.
_________________
laura solomon
cedu vet. 1996-1999
RIP[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-07-02 08:33 ]
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On 2004-07-01 12:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Shanlea,
I'm in Idaho and I am willing to meet for a peaceful fun get together and to plan your peaceful protest at a parent conference.
In Idaho, they have their conferences at the Coeur d'Alene Resort Hotel - see internet. I would be willing to provide beds and floors for protesters at my home. Also I can find out when and, if a different place, where they are going to have the conference. Any other ideas? Share them.
Thanks Max
"
On 2004-07-01 11:19:00, Bryan Felsher wrote:
"Play dress-up? Laugh about CEDU? Party about it?
That's like Iraqi Prisoners from Abu Graib getting out and putting on fake electrocution outfits, and reenacting their humiliations for fun.
Count me out.
I'll celebrate with you guys when we've done something worth celebrating.
Until then the war is on."
shanlea, that's a great idea.
bryan, remember, you're trying to host an activist get together as well... and remember, the best way to organize such plans is to join forces, share and reflect energy.
it's a celebration for being alive... everyday is werth celebrating. it's also a celebration for the action about to be taken. to life, and pro-active collaborations. yea!
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yes- you are right. Humour is VERY strong. In fact
throughtout history it has been one of the important moving factors.
However, I am too angry still to laugh about most of it. But I'm still growing, and one day we'll all laugh about it.
We all have our own style and our own ideas. I support you in our attempt to destroy the CEDU mentality through whatever means neccesary.
Hey- you know me!
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Well about the I.Q.- yes I can agree. They're are many tests and only one test gave me that score.
(It did however give me an egotistical hard-on!!)
I.Q. tests only measure the ability to think past certain levels.
They do not measure the ablility
to think past certain levels.
Follow?
Anyway, I am not qualified to be an activist host as well as Laura or Hell or Shanlea or Opposition.
I am fully aware that I am MUCH too emotional, and frankly- explosive for that sort of thing.
Maybe my background as a Russian Jew has some effect.
I think that I have a few good ideas though and I
KNOW I have the fortitude to ACT.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: Bryan Felsher on 2004-07-02 08:21 ]
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my dreadlocked russian jew girl appearance might be hard to get over too.. i've been trying to werk on my temper because it's not very pleasant.
about iq... well, it doesn't tell you very much aside from how well you've been trained, i think. i think we all have much more potential (there are many types of brilliance; the most valuable, to me, is not at all tested on an iq test: spiritual attunation (i don't think this is a "real" werd, but it is now) insight, and intuition.) than what the IQ test allows us to believe. they want us with higher iqs to believe that we're smarter than those with lower iqs, who've not been trained in the same way. that's not to say that they are not actually as smart or smarter, they're just not as sharp when it comes to thinking in this standard programmed american way. it's like a language that they're testing fluency in... but there are certainly other equally valuable languages.
i think we're all equally smart inherently, but our programming... well, that's a different story.
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Yeah, I'll edit out the IQ comment. You're right IQ
is a bunch of bull.
I'm a bit heavily tatooed and long haired. We'd probably freak out some parents! j/k
Spiritual Attunation- I was recently reading about that. It is a real word. It was one of the last arguments given to Socrates the day of his execution. He argued, and I agree, that the soul is
not an attunation, but that it existed before our bodies existed, and exists eternally after our bodies die.
Read Plato's "The last days of Socrates" if you're interested. Its one of my top 3 favorite books (currently).[ This Message was edited by: Bryan Felsher on 2004-07-02 11:59 ]
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oy. plato, socrates; philosophy books... that reminds me of my freshman year of college; i was a philosophical freak.
strange to hear that socrates talked about a werd that i thought i had made up. it's not that i think that our souls are attunation, it's just one of the three elements for our temporal characters to attune to(spirit first, then the body and the mind/cognitive processes. our bodies need be attuned with our spirits; the more attuned to your soul you are, the more divine your mundane presence is.... just trying to clarify my standpoint.)
well, i used to have plenty of metal through my flesh... i don't really wear any of it anymore, so, fortunately, it might make it a bit easier for those cedu parents to look past my un-conventional appearance.
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definition of attune: to bring into harmony.
The body is not eternal. It is not unchanging. It is completely different at each moment. (cell theory is the most obvious reason)
The Mind/Cognitive proccess has the same characteristics.
Can we agree that the soul, however, is eternal and exists completely independent of the body?
The Soul, therefore, cannot be attuned to. If it can be attuned to, then it is an attunement. And the soul cannot be an attunement because that which is eternal cannot be brought into harmony with that which is non-eternal. In other words, the soul is an Absolute. The Body is not. The body and mind/cognitive process is ever changing. The Soul can never admit to the body without ceasing to be a soul. If it were an attunement, then what happens to the Soul after the body is destroyed, and where did the soul come from?
I would say it is important to keep the body in good health so that the lies our senses tell our minds can be kept to a minumum.
You mentioned 3 elements. I'm not sure but there may be only two elements of our temporal characters. Is our mind of the body or of the soul? Hmmm.....
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i know what attunement is
you can try to mute the communication between your soul and your body, which is where attunation comes into play. your body is your soul's puppet. your mind is a sort of messenger. you can try to pretend that your puppetmaster is not the true source of the messages relayed, but i really don't believe that it's true. attunation, to me, is recognizing the soul as the source, and listening to the communication between the three elements (i.e. paying attention to random intuitive bodily sensations and using your mind to translate their meaning rather than disregard or block them out.)
mind/cognitive processes... well, the cognitive processes are a product of the mind, but i werded it like that because it's not only the mind itself that needs to be attuned, it's the mind and its product. i guess that if the mind were attuned, then it's offspring would be as well, however, i just felt that i needed to state them as two separate concepts joined together to create one essential temporal element.
bascially, i didn't werd that last post very articulately... here's what i meant to say: the more attention one pays to the subtle communication between their soul and body, the stronger that connection will become, and the more divine that person's temporal existance will be. that's what i think about attunation. you know what i mean?
_________________
laura solomon
cedu vet. 1996-1999
RIP[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-07-04 16:07 ]
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I would say it is important to keep the body in good health so that the lies our senses tell our minds can be kept to a minumum.
i agree, that is why i had to pick at your suggestion for the kids to have a smoke.
:wink:
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If you were tuning a violin, the tuning is the attunement. What happens to the attunement when the violin is smashed?
If the body is the soul's puppet and the mind is a messenger, is the mind the attunement between the body and soul?
I think we agree that if there are 3 elements of our temporal being and if an attunement exists, then either it is
1) the Body between the Mind and the Soul,
2) the Soul between the Mind and the Body, or
3) the Mind between the Body and the Soul.
However, if the attunement exists, then what happens to the attunement after the Body is destroyed?
Keeping in mind that attunement in this case is used as a quality of the Absolute Idea of Attunement.
I guess where I disagree that the mind is the attunement between the body and the soul, is that I believe that there are only two main elements of our temporal being.- Body and Soul.
I believe the Mind is of the Body and I also believe Science is well on the way to proving this.
I believe the Mind is of the Body, because if I took 1 dose of LSD, or if I had Alzheimer's Disease I am sure my Mind would be effected, whereas I don't neccessarily know that it would effect my soul. I believe that properly, the mind is of the body and that both should be used and distrusted as such on the long road of trying to Understand our Souls. I believe that by its nature, our souls are eternal (and unchangeable).
So if the mind is a product of the body, it is not an independantly acting entity able to become an attunement.
It is influenced by both the body and the soul, however, its birth and death are only dependent on the body.
If it is not a product of the body, then it must be of the soul, being a product of supernatural forces.
However I go back to the Greek argument against the violin example to dismiss the idea of the eternal mind.
There is a school of thought that believes the Body and the Soul are products of the Mind.
I just disagree with that nihilistic attitude.
It assumes that we are important. If John's mind were destroyed, I could see that he still has a Body even if he were unable to comprehend it. I believe that there is an Ultimate Absolute Reality that is unaffected by Mind's opinion of it.
So I'm trying to understand my Soul. I try to use my mind and my body. I don't believe that I can influence or change my Soul's eternal characteristics so I don't believe I have the power to harm it by smoking anything or tatooing or piercing or whatever. I only question whether or not any bodily affect, effects my mind's ability for understanding. The same goes for other issues in my life, some increase understanding- some decrease.
So what is the nature of the Soul? It is the cause of the difference in reality between living and existing, life and death. Is it invisible? No. Haven't you ever seen it in someone's eyes?[ This Message was edited by: Bryan Felsher on 2004-07-04 20:00 ]
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this is an interesting discussion... i think it would make more sense to have it via (virtually) non-delayed dialogue... most of my responses on here are rushed and whatnot.
do you have aim or something?
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oops...
didn't mean to post anon
-LAURA
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ok... the mind IS of the body, but the mental process (which is a product of the mind, and consequently, of the body) serves as a sort of decoder (the language used to make sense of it) for these spiritual/physical communications. like i was saying before, the spirit is the essential element, and the others are attuned to this essence.
about the smoking thing: it's not that the harm you do unto your body can damage your soul... your soul's existence is much more fundamental than your body's, as you've previously expressed. what i was saying is that a kid running away from cedu might be having bodily reactions to the cigarettes and end up ignoring some crucial intuitive sensations because they're trying to tune out the negative sensations that come along with smoking. (what if they felt like they couldn't run anymore because their lungs were too beat? i mean, surely, they could run further, and their soul would prolly be telling them to do so, but their bodies might not allow them to believe it enough to push past it because of the physical abuse.) doing harm unto your body puts a barrier between the body and soul.. from heroin addiction on down to poor eating habits. i've recently revolutionized my diet and realized that i have much more spiritual potential when i'm in optimal condition.
anyway, maybe that's just me, but rememebr, i'm a self-righteous fuck.
_________________
laura solomon
cedu vet. 1996-1999
RIP[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-07-04 21:19 ]