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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: CEDU IS A CULT on June 10, 2004, 11:27:00 AM
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[ This Message was edited by: Bryan Felsher on 2004-06-16 08:16 ]
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On 2004-06-10 08:27:00, Bryan Felsher wrote:
[ This Message was edited by: Bryan Felsher on 2004-06-16 08:17 ]
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I guess I am a little different. I want to see their children suffer in front of them. Ask any parent... that's pain. Let the sons and daughters pay for the sins of the parents. Course if they have no children, the by all means get to work on them. Field telephone to their genitals :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Yikes! AS a "dissatisfied customer" of CEDU (former student), to put it mildy, your comments are terrifying, Hell. Tell me you are just venting. The point is to END Cedu abuse not inflict it on more children. Here, maybe you need to rant and rave, but it veers on the sadistic. CEDU would read this stuff and just discredit you on this basis. I know we all need a place to vent, but you have so much raw energy do you know how powerful it could be if directed constructively? Man, you could get shit done!
And, Bryan: Is there anyway you could report the attempted molestation? That's serious shit and they should have to deal with that. I wonder if any of the other kids had the same problem with that guy?
Have either of you confronted these staff members as adults now that they can't dick you around. I've thought about it. I think it would bring some closure.
By the way, why didn't more people split?
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i agree with this last comment...
you guys get a bit carried away with what you post on here... you want to see them and their children suffer? come on now... this really does discredit your point because it sounds so irrationally angry.
i just want to see the skool system suffer and collapse so that it cannot damage anymore defenseless children.
i thought about splitting many times, but i didn't because a) i was far from home, where my friends who i could trust to help me were and b) i was scared of what i'd have to do to survive in california or what i'd have to go through to make it home (if i'd even make it there.) i figured i'd just survive through their torture and constantly keep in mind how much brighter my life would be when i left safely. my defiance kept me sane; while trying to resist conforming to their standards that they pushed in such a forceful way, i acquired a great amount of strength that i never knew that i had.
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by the way, were you talking about martin weins and guy bonano?
::puke::
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Want to know the difference......... We were children who didn't know better. They were adults who did know better. It is the only thing that will wake them up. They will not respect the loss of money or jobs. Denial is very powerful, the true CEDU folk will never admit that they were wrong, nor will they read our words..... it scares them, the truth scares them.
I am way too aggressive maybe. I may have lost touch with my human side. The only thing I know is hate and fear and sadness. I know how to give pain and take pain. I think sometimes I have lost my ability to love, or be loved. My point is not about moving on, it is about making them feel as I have felt. To make them feel powerless and weak. To make them scared to speak out. These are people that belong in places like Birkenau, Bergen Belsen, Treblinka, Dachau, Hanoi Hilton, Bataan.......... not the innocent.
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Here's a little something I wrote about that.
Strength
They say that strength comes from the inside.
That we all have the power to decide.
What if that is not so true.
That some of us do not have the strength to overcome.
Only the strength to survive.
With each passing day that wears down
The strength slowly ebbs.
Until one day it is gone.
And upon that day we lay our burdens down on the earth
And slowly slip beneath it.
We lay our cross down for the next lost soul to claim it.
And it will be theirs to keep
Until the day they can no longer bear the weight of it.
And if we could pass our weights back
Upon the ones who gave them to us,
Would we do it or not.
When you know you are strong,
You will not ask for help,
Because those who do not carry
Do not know one fucking bit about strength.
They are beneath those who do carry the weight,
Regardless of stature.
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I hate you and I hope you die an excrutiatingly painful, miserable, long, lonely death surrounded by the blank faces of hollow men for whom the only desire is to increase your suffering. I hope you die as an invalid- deaf, blind, dumb, and paralized trap
Wow, now that is some great writing. It almost makes me cry. I hear it, I feel it, it's good.
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On 2004-06-11 22:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yikes! AS a "dissatisfied customer" of CEDU (former student), to put it mildy, your comments are terrifying, Hell. Tell me you are just venting. The point is to END Cedu abuse not inflict it on more children. Here, maybe you need to rant and rave, but it veers on the sadistic. CEDU would read this stuff and just discredit you on this basis. I know we all need a place to vent, but you have so much raw energy do you know how powerful it could be if directed constructively? Man, you could get shit done!
And, Bryan: Is there anyway you could report the attempted molestation? That's serious shit and they should have to deal with that. I wonder if any of the other kids had the same problem with that guy?
Have either of you confronted these staff members as adults now that they can't dick you around. I've thought about it. I think it would bring some closure.
By the way, why didn't more people split?
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Well here's a few answers......Bonners Ferry is located in bumfuck egypt, so not really anywhere to go. Spokane is not really that great of a city to be homeless in. There wasn't much green laying around, so that also made it tough. I made it to Spokane......I got pulled off the train by the Spokane SWAT team... We were "armed and dangerous" CEDU bullshit. Ain't it great.
As far as confronting staff now????? Well I think about that almost every day, and have come to one conclusion...... I already did a couple years at CEDU, I'm not in the mood to do life in the Big House. I'm not scared of it, I just don't like the idea very much. I just know that I wouldn't be able to stop myself, and would go over the proverbial edge. I have to rant and rave, and spill it out here, because I just can't do what I want to do. Now do you all see where I am coming from. I have the ability and the tools, and the money and the time to take care of the problem. Take out the heads of Medusa, so to speak. I just can't. I cannot go that far. I will become the thing I hate. Their money means shit to me. Technically they have not done anythig to get themselves locked up. But they went to No. 1 on a few people's lists. And I do not think you can discredit hate. Hatred and love are two of the most powerful motivating factors in the world. Sure my rantings are a little rough. Definitely got your attention didn't it?? :grin: Nah, I have a great sense of humor and try to always use it, but like I've said before, CEDU brings out the monster in me. (thanks L7) I do okay for a long time, but from Feb 3 to end of summer, every year is terrible melancholy and anger. I guess I should start smoking the good shit to help me forget, but I will not.
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i heard that your idaho neighbors were allowed to shoot you if you stepped on their property...
maybe that was just a rumor that had originated to scare you guys into staying... maybe it was just our ignorant cali rumor.
anyway, dude, you need to find the positives in your life. there's no need to dwell on old misery. let it go... find the beauty in your life and embrace it. if you still want to fuck the system, then do it in a productive manner... ranting about how you want these people to die grusome deaths on here isn't doing anything for you. i'm only interviewing you if you stay calm and rational; anything else will make us look bad and discredit all the important things we have to say.
_________________
laura solomon
cedu vet. 1996-1999
RIP[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-06-12 18:24 ]
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nah, that used to be the case. But now it as the same for all western states but Cali, they have to be in your house to be able to lower the boom. Or presenting a threat. Things in Idaho are different, but one thing is for sure, it is a helluva lot safer to hitch hike in Idaho. Unless of course you are a city-boy, gay, or not white. On the bright side, the Aryan Nations headquarters has moved from Idaho to Pennsylvania. We are no longer the Mississippi of the West. I grew up in Idaho, lived 3 hours in a car from BCA, I knew all the roads to get home. I just split for something to do. It was a lot of fun. Although try sleeping beside the tracks when an Amtrack blows by at 70. That scared the living shit out of me.
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that's wild... i totally would've split if i'd been that close to home.
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On 2004-06-12 19:08:00, Hell on Wheels wrote:
That scared the living shit out of me. "
And by the sounds of it, you have a LOT of shit living IN you (as do many others)
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Hell, I was 14, didn't know shit about shit. Wouldn't a mattered anyways, make it home and back same day. That's the worst, make it home, then what are ya gonna do??
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On 2004-06-12 21:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2004-06-12 19:08:00, Hell on Wheels wrote:
That scared the living shit out of me. "
And by the sounds of it, you have a LOT of shit living IN you (as do many others)"
Wow, random honesty :smile: :smile: :razz: god, remember that?? You'd be cruisin in the house, really letting it ride, and BAM, somebody would drop some honesty all over you. And you had nothing to say about it. Cause it's true. It didn't hurt, but it was like stepping into a cold shower. Good times.
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Laura,I went to CEDU-RS in 1987 and split. I never could've done it if it wasn't my home state, but i coldn't handle CEDU. I think they do tell alot of rumors to keep you there. On the other hand, it was scary splitting and I couldn't make a phone call to friends(that is where they caught me the first time I split.) The weird thing is that I had a feeling a mother would help me before I split and that is exactly what happened. (I knew I wouldn't hitchhike.)The thing I felt bad about was lying to her why I needed help getting home because I didn't wnat to be sent back. It turns out she was headed to San Diego in a week, so for one week I babysat her kids in RS and kept out of town and then she drove me home. My parents had some crazy spiel CEDU gave them, but I told them I was headed north to live in Haight Ashbury area of S.F. not knowing where it was... My dad said no way, jose, and i was back at home. (I think my dad was starting to feel like the program was BS anyway but felt he had to back up my Mom.) It took me five hours to go from CEDU to the rinky dink town but I almost got busted by cops, was chased by two dogs, and was real careful trying to slip by this weird derelict trailer camp. If you met me, you'd never guess I was the type who'd split because I'm kind of a chicken.
Anyway,Hell, I couldn't imagine splitting BCA. Is it near a town? I remember another post saying that the other states (UT, ID, FL)protect kids less than CA so it makes sense that you would have more to bargain with if you split an area where your rights are totally null and void.
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I wrote the previous post, and also the one about your more violent rants. I think part of the reason it makes me uncomfortable is because I want parents to read these posts and think twice about sending their kids to CEDU. If they read stuff that transcends anger and goes into your violent wishes I'm afraid they won't take into account the very valid points you tell about your experiences. This site helps with venting but I also want parents to read it and understand that we all aren't a bunch of psychos or they'll write everything we say off. Maybe I'm missing the point, I don't know.
Looking back into why your parents sent you to CEDU in the first place what did you really need? I always wonder because staying home was out of the question but CEDU was a horrible alternative. (I wasn't on drugs or suicidal or destructive to others; but I was in bad shape emotionally and academically.)
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Let's put it this way....... The things I got sent to CEDU for, never got addressed in 2.5 years. I just learned to keep my anger under the radar. To turn all my hate against those who were against me, whether it was student or staff, or system. I guess I have just never turned it off. My guess is that most people here were not sent away for extreme anger and disturbing thought processes. That makes me a minority. You will not understand why it is so important for me to talk here, or anywhere. The more I talk, the less chance that I will act. Like I said here before, I was born to be the way that I am, hopefully I can maintain the strength to keep myself doing the right thing, done pretty good so far.
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OK. YOu are right. I don't understand, but I accept. We all got our own journey.
Still, you are articulate and funny, what if you wrote a dark comedy about your experience?
Also out of curiosity, do any of your CEDU friends view CEDU similarly or were they brainwashed? Laura? Hell?
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On 2004-06-13 21:48:00, shanlea wrote:
"OK. YOu are right. I don't understand, but I accept. We all got our own journey.
Still, you are articulate and funny, what if you wrote a dark comedy about your experience?
Also out of curiosity, do any of your CEDU friends view CEDU similarly or were they brainwashed? Laura? Hell?"
well, some of my "friends" at cedu m.s. were fairly brainwashed... actually, i had a few friends that i knew faked it really well.. but i don't think they told anyone; those middle skool kids were hardcore snitches. it's not something we really talked about, it was kinda like don't ask, i won't tell. the more i think about it, the more fakers i can remember. they were really good, well, some were not so good, but did it anyway. but, on the other hand, there were those poor kids who were particularly susceptible to their harsh demands. it depended on the past experiences of the kids; those who were just there for petty shit like fighting with their parents, who didn't understand how that much about human nature and social engineering, who usually got sucked in... these were usually younger kids. but then there were those who'd had some serious social issues (drugs, gang involvement, etc) before cedu, even really young kids, these kids were better fakers. toward the end, there were a lot more of these petty-shit kids, and a lot of them got duped. fortunately, i didn't fall into it at all (not even the inclination to fake it... damn, that just reminded me of something they used to tell us: "fake it till you make it. did you guys ever hear that one? i'm sure they knew a lot of these kids were faking it... but they didn't really care because they knew that they'd have internalized the shit.)
anyway, some of these kids weren't bright enough or advanced enough not to get brainwashed, but others were pretty convincing that they did. the middle skool was pretty intense; these kids would take the whole brainwashed thing, and even faking it, to a whole new level.. you'd never hear a high skooler scream at you about tucking in your shirt. and when these kids got brainwashed... like whoa.
most of the people i chilled with at the high skool were defiant and rebellious, the others were chameleons... they did what they felt they needed to do to get out. i think there were a couple truly brainwashed kids at the high skool (and i think they had really fucked up lives at home, like environments) but i can't really remember too many (then again, i can't remember a lot of those kids off the top of my head) and i wasn't friends with them; they were the people who'd jump down my throat about my bad attitude and behavior!
so, basically, all of my friends think the system is screwed like i do, but from very different perspectives. honestly, i think the chameleons end up werse than the rebels in the long run... like, we just had a miserable time while at the skool, but we'd resist. the others, well, they'd have to go along with it and pass it on... for some people, that's truly traumatizing.
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How'd you end up rebellious and graduating? I remember when I was there, by the time you got up to the upper levels you were pretty much beaten into submission, it seemed all the upper level kids either faked it through or really brought in to the system. It seemed the staff made a point of breaking down the rebellious ones, usually during a propheet or wilderness trip the person would be "saved."
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my last full time was like 3 weeks before graduation. i don't know how i made it out... i guess i had just been there so long that they finally realized that i wasn't going to do anymore than i already had (which really wasn't much.) honestly, i remember transferring to the high skool on challenge (like level 3/5) and i don't remember moving up again. perhaps i did move up at the closing of my summit (my last full time kept me from going through it with my peer group; i had my own personal 1 day werkshop) and maybe i moved up once with my peer group, but i really don't think i did.
so, uh... yeh.. they figured that i was a lost cause and let me go. that was my goal; mission accomplished.
_________________
laura solomon
cedu vet. 1996-1999
RIP[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-06-14 12:52 ]
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Gosh, laura, I feel so stupid. I really thought everyone totally bought into all the stupid rules and mind trips. I thought there was something wrong with me for not... I never questionned that anyone was faking it. I don't know how you survived rebelling. I knew after the Truth propheet that I would be broken into submission if I stayed because they didn't tolerate anything but total capitulation. When I got there, my whole focus was to blend into the woodwork and stay dirt-free. The only dirt I had was knowing I HAD to split before whatever was left of me was smashed. But even then I was totally unprepared to deal with the real world after that insulated crap. I trusted NO ONE.
I wonder how much CEDU has changed since then. It seems like the changes were largely cosmetic. We didn't have therapists. I wouldn't have trusted them anyway if they told CEDU everything.
YOu know I resented my team leaders most because they were full of shit and saw how they manipulated me and my parents and could never get there facts straight, screwing up my story for their own purposes, but I never went further than Vision to fully experience other staff, except in raps.
Unlike you, Pam (never my family head) was totally cool to me especially when I had table time; she just sat and talked about different stuff; she never condescended or exaggerated or used things against me later, like Jim and Laurie did. I was in one rap where she let this total BULLY from hell rip a person to shreds for being too smiley(a new staff member--someone's spouse who was trying to be supportive and was one of the few bright lights there). This bully that CEDU nourished had carte blanche to basically humiliate a really nice person just for kicks. I was sickened. I was hoping Pam would rein her in but she unleashed her.
Was Pam's husband there when you were at CEDU. He really humiliated me unnecessarily for giving guys hard ons on purpose by wearing tight pants. The reason my pants were tight was because I gained 20 pounds and my parents didn't send me anymore clothing that fit. He ripped me to bits in front of guys in a pretty graphic way. It was all sports to him. I think his name was Mark W. Does he still work at CEDU with Pam?
I often wondered what the kitchen staff thought of all of us. THey've heard the gamut. [ This Message was edited by: on 2004-08-01 20:32 ]
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Restrictions..... whee, what fun they were. Sit like a jackass and watch all your buddies having a decent time, while you had to write about how being deprived of a pair of Nikes at age 10 led you down the path of sin :grin: To answer a previous question, most of my friends view CEDU similarly. Even some of them who were totally brainwashed and into the system. Seems like those people were the ones that had the hardest time adjusting to being free. They would immediately go back into old patterns. While those of us who hated the system didn't go so far astray, mainly because we hated CEDU, and really didn't want to give anyone an excuse to send us back. And yes, of all the kids that left CEDU that I knew, I am one of the angriest.
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i'm not sure about pam's husband.. sounds like an asshole.
the kitchen staff prolly thought the whole cedu ordeal was nuts, including us. i can remember this girl becky who got one kitchen staff member in trouble because she claimed to have fucked him. nobody knows how much truth there is to her claim.. it wasn't something she came out with anyway, she wrote it in a jernal; she might've been fantasizing.
honestly, i didn't really pay much attention to who was faking and who wasn't when i was there... i mean, i'm pretty perceptive and stuff; i can usually tell when people are bullshitting me, but i wasn't too concerned... to me, they were all the same. all those middle skoolers seemed like they were out to get me (you know, they all needed to spu their dirt to staff all the time to look good, and i was an easy target.)
_________________
laura solomon
cedu vet. 1996-1999
RIP[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-06-28 01:18 ]
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by the way, hell, that's a good observation about the brainwashed kids having a harder time dealing with the real werld... all the cedu staff would talk about how it's so rough on the outside. of course, they were talking about their model students. even the pseudo-brainwashed fakers i've known to have a hard time afterward. for me, i just leaped into the werld of drugs and tried to figure out what was so great about all the stuff those cedu kids had been bragging about. i wouldn't consider myself traumatized, and i wouldn't say i had a hard time adjusting.. well, it wasn't any harder than it was pre-cedu; i've always been an outsider, but it makes more sense for me that way (i'm a bit different.)
i was just psyched to be free after so long!