Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 22, 2004, 12:32:00 PM
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Is this something new? ISAC has this on their links section.
http://abundantdomain.com/wwasp/conclusion.htm (http://abundantdomain.com/wwasp/conclusion.htm)
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Anybody know who the registered owner is for:
abundantdomain.com
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"Who Is" domain searches
http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index.jhtml (http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index.jhtml)
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Well???
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I know the kid.
A young man I should say.
He was at Casa, as he says; and I think his site is accurate without being at all extream. I think he's done a fine job.
I believe his name is on the site; so I suggest you just go take a closer look.
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Nice website, but what, if any, is the connection with a domain registered to Craig Rogers of Abundant Life Academy?
:???:
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Interesting:
http://abundantdomain.com/wwasp/law.htm (http://abundantdomain.com/wwasp/law.htm)
I wonder how ALA would stack up to these California laws.
Karen, of COURSE you "know" the kid. He's your damned kid! Why are you always so damned dodgey???
"Now, I'm a walking dead man," ... "And what bothers me is that I'm dead because I tried to help the kids. And it's all the fault of all those people over there at the DEA." [Dead Man Talking]
--Ben Guillory
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Because Ginger, he's NOT my kid!
But he was an ALA student.
As always, I am not up on the details, but I know ALA set him up with his computer and got him started on web site design and he is hoping to make a living doing so. Thus the connection to ALA.
If you think back, I'm sure you'll recal my son was out of Dundee, not Casa.
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Oh brother, here we go again ... Karen "not up to the details" though she does know the young man.
Perhaps Karen will share with us how it came to be that this kid ended up at ALA by way of Casa by the Sea? Also, I'd still like to know what her relationship to Strawn (the transport service) is as long as we're still playing DODGE BALL.
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It seems to me that Karen definitly has a conflict of interest as a result of her arrangement with ALA as their parent support person. As such, I believe anything this lady (who likes to refer to herself as "just a mom") says must be weighed against the close ties she maintains with others in the teen-help-industry, in addition to her fire-and-brimstone cronies.
:roll:
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No ones playing dodge ball here; ecpect maybe You.
This thread is about a Post wwasp student's Casa web site; not Karen, or you, or any other subject, you would like to use, to change the subject.
You want to rip into Karen, start a thread on the subject of Karen.
Maybe there, you can explain Why are you so obsessed with her.
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This is an open forum, one thread often blends into another or takes a short detour -- which seems to be the case here.
If Karen prefers not to answer the questions posed to her in this thread, what makes you think she would answer them in any another thread?
Bottom line, most people know that sometimes a non-answer pretty much says it all.
::bigsmilebounce::
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On 2004-05-23 18:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No ones playing dodge ball here; ecpect maybe You.
This thread is about a Post wwasp student's Casa web site; not Karen, or you, or any other subject, you would like to use, to change the subject.
You want to rip into Karen, start a thread on the subject of Karen.
Maybe there, you can explain Why are you so obsessed with her."
Correction, Anon (LOL) should have said "this thread is about a Post wwasp AND Abundant Life Academy student's web site."
:wstupid:
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And So. . .
So What?
Its a student's web site; and isn't that what the origional poster was wanting to know?
All I was doing was vouching for the fact the kid is ligit. I know enough to know that, but not much more. I have talked to him a couple times for help with my computer; but I don't know him well & I know nothing what so ever about his family; or his personal circumstances; not that I would plaster the info on a intnet forum if I did.
He has on his site what info he feels like sharing; and its all you need to know.
I do happen to know as much as I've related, and so felt I could add credence to the web site; That it IS a wwasp student's web site.
I do wonder why Carry and her alter ego wants to make every thread I might post on about me?
Whats up with that?
I'm not very interesting; I don't matter; an no body gives a hill of beans about my particulars; So why can't you just move on -
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On 2004-05-24 10:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"And So. . .
So What?
Its a student's web site; and isn't that what the origional poster was wanting to know?
All I was doing was vouching for the fact the kid is ligit. I know enough to know that, but not much more. I have talked to him a couple times for help with my computer; but I don't know him well & I know nothing what so ever about his family; or his personal circumstances; not that I would plaster the info on a intnet forum if I did.
He has on his site what info he feels like sharing; and its all you need to know.
I do happen to know as much as I've related, and so felt I could add credence to the web site; That it IS a wwasp student's web site.
I do wonder why Carry and her alter ego wants to make every thread I might post on about me?
Whats up with that?
I'm not very interesting; I don't matter; an no body gives a hill of beans about my particulars; So why can't you just move on -
"
Karen, there does not seem to be any question as to what this boy's website is all about (sharing his experience of a WWASPS program). What does seem curious is why the domain for his website is the same as ALA's. Abundant Life Academy, as you very well know is a Utah faith-based program that also has a program in Mexico. This explanation of yours "But he was an ALA student. As always, I am not up on the details, but I know ALA set him up with his computer and got him started on web site design and he is hoping to make a living doing so. Thus the connection to ALA" seems to answer the question but at the same time raises additional questions (e.g. why didn't Craig set him up with an independent domain, one that is not affiliated with ALA?). Personally, that does make more sense, don't you agree? As for Carrey, you are wrong if you think she is the only one asking questions of you, or anybody else, though it is somewhat understandable why you might not be able to help but think that way.
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http://abundantdomain.com/wwasp/conclusion.htm (http://abundantdomain.com/wwasp/conclusion.htm)
After reading this, it seems parents (the sponsor) sign these enrollment contracts agreeing to the terms and conditions, harsh as they may be. Now I know parents-in-crisis often feel or are made to feel that "time is of the essence" but still, you'd think they would understand they are signing *behavioral-change* contracts, not financing a brand new $40,000.00 S.U.V. and would take some time to do some comparison shopping before signing on the dotted line. I mean, what's wrong with these parents? Don't they think their child is worth the extra effort it takes to do due-dilengence? Heck, if most of them just looked up the meaning of the term *behavior modification* they would at least have some idea as to what they are "sponsoring". That goes for faith-based schools and programs, too, where allegations of abuse are just as easily to be found.
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We may never find out if this website was set up for the sole purpose, by ALA urging, to tell this story. It's a story of a kid that never stayed long enough to get the results to graduate. Have a graduate do a website and you'll read something completely accountable.
Did Craig see this as a way to recruit, much as aother non-wwasps program/recruiter does to discredit them?
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//(e.g. why didn't Craig set him up with an independent domain, one that is not affiliated with ALA?). Personally, that does make more sense, don't you agree?//
I honestly do not know if it makes more sence or not. I know nothing about this domain thing; how it works; if one must be an adult, for instance, to own one. . .I don't know.
I Imagian it was just easier somehow to do it this way; but I don't know.
//We may never find out if this website was set up for the sole purpose, by ALA urging, to tell this story.
Did Craig see this as a way to recruit, much as aother non-wwasps program/recruiter does to discredit them? //
I have read the site over several times; and there is no mention of ALA on it. I don't think anyone would know of any connection without checking the domain thing; So I don't see how anyone can accuse Craig of trying to set it up as a fhishing site.
The site is the kids and I am very confident says only what he felt needed to be said.
//It's a story of a kid that never stayed long enough to get the results to graduate. Have a graduate do a website and you'll read something completely accountable. //
OK. . . So, if he had stayed however many years it would've taken to graduate, he might've come out with a different point of view; But that dosen't make anything in his account inaccurate; and he is being compleatly accountable.
The results needed to graduate from your program are partly what is so concerning; as the result of graduating is to be Well Programed.
And my wwasp friend, even if this equates to a person free from any disire to do drugs or screw a platoon; the ends Do Not justify the means.
//As for Carrey, you are wrong if you think she is the only one asking questions of you,//
I know. And I don't mind an honest question; altho I can't always answer. Often times its how the question is put forth; and the subject of the question; that makes me think she is harping again.
I'd also like to point out, it isn't being dodgy to not know the answer to a question. It isn't being dodgey to respect other people's privacy and try not to drag them into fights or situations they'd rather stay out of.
I don't think its being dodgey to grow tired of going over and over the same old crap and to cease doing so.
I do a little mind being accused of evasion when I try to be as upfront and honest as I can.
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I don't think its being dodgey to grow tired of going over and over the same old crap and to cease doing so.
What is it that you think you are doing, besides "going over and over the same old crap?"
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OOOh; Ouch -
What a sharp jab.
Actually, this is a new subject.
If in six months time; some hateful snipe is Still harping on about the Casa web site and what do I know I'm not telling. . .
Then it will fit the catogory of same ole crap.
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Karen, I must say, you really do confuse people with your mixed messages. On one hand, you support programs and even transporting kids to them, against their will. On the other, you have relentlessly bashed other programs as being abusive, especially WWASPS which you have personal experience with. What about all the other programs out there alleged to be abusing kids (Provo, Mountain Park, Cedu, Bethel,etc.)? Do you not realize that many of these kids were referred by ed cons and independent referral services under the guise of "helping families heal" and most likely, were yanked out of their beds in the middle of the night by strangers carrying mace and handcuffs "just in case they need to use them" on a resistent teen? How can you be talking out of both sides of your mouth and expect anyone to respect you? Please, start another thread entitled MY NAME IS KAREN AND THIS IS MY AGENDA. That would really help.
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You may start such a thread if you like; I have no such inclination.
And this post of yours is well into the catigory of same ole crap.
For the sake of the new kid's on the block, I'm going to summerize a responce.
I have no agenda.
I am not assocated with Any ed con or referal agancy.
I have never (not once) refered a parent or family to any ed con or referal agency.
I have on a few occassions refered to Lon's site and educationoptions.org, for informational purposes only; As in, "Read this artical".
The only programs I have mentioned as options to consider are YMCA shelter house; YMCA Summer camps and Outward Bound. On the very few occassions, when I was speaking with a Christian Family whos son had a drug and alcahol problem, I have mentioned they might want to consider ALA.
I am compensated by none of these and actually have No idea if the suggestion was even considered.
As for my assocation with ALA; It is the program I transfered my son to from wwasp's Dundee ranch some two years ago. I have had no complaints; and found a degree of compassion, understanding and apropreate counseling with ALA that I will always be greatful for; and more to the point, so is my son.
For a brife time I took the volentary position of family advocate; which consisted of taking calls and email and IM from parents of students; and listening to their concerns; trying to help find solutions. It was temporary; I no longer am invloved; altho I am still happy to talk with whomever might want to call.
I stand in staunch oposition to abusive and neglectful programs;Weather they be privately owned or state operated; weather they be Christian or Mormon or Scientologist; What ever, Where ever they are.
My personal experaince is with WWASP.
This is the one I know; the one I feel I can speak with some actual knowledge of.
As for Escorts/ Transporting: I have mixed feelings. I do understand the oposition to it; I do understand how tramatic it can be; and even how the process plays into the overall goal of *some* programs to brain wash their students. I am Now aware that this process has often times been abusive and that some "transporters" behave like sadist.
This was not our experaince. It just wasn't. I can't say it was something it wasn't just to make some of you happy.
As for Rick Strawn, who was th escort I hired; He did tell me he was a recovered alcaholic. I have no problem with that. Lots of fine people are.
If its true about his step daughter, it would shift my opinion significantly. I do still maintain we, none of us here, know the truth of that situation. It is however something to be considered by anyone when thinking of hiring him to escort.
All this having been acknowledged; I am still not able to say there is no situation that justifies hireing an escort. I felt I needed to; and I still feel I needed to. Many other families face the same delima.
For now, I feel the thing to do is advocate for regulations; legislation; that will make the job very unattractive to sadist and pedofiles; by virture of extreamly sever consequences for anyone who breaches the trust put in them and the ethics involved with escorting.
I may in time, should this prove impossible; join the rising tide of voices in total oposition.
And lastly, as for your lack of respect toward me: I'm certainly not the kind of person everyone likes and respects and I'm OK with that.
I find some do respect me; and I find these are the people who know me best; So thats enough for me.
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Thanks Karen, it does help to know where you are coming from with respect to key issues involving the teen help industry, rather than speculating what your M.O. is. Knowing what you now know about the teen transport business, I still do not see how you can endorse the practice of parents using these services to FORCE their child into a specialized program. There are other ways to ensure that teens get the help they need, not the least of which is for parents to escort their own children to a program. If you are going to offer advice to parents, you really should consider solutions that are in the BEST INTERESTS of the child, not the parent. Clearly, kidnapping kids if not criminally wrong, is ethically and morally repugnant and it needs to stop!
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Hey, my name is Brian.
I wrote the website with a friend of mine for a school project.
I ended up at both programs against my will and Karen had nothing to do with it.
Thanks,
brian.salazar@gmail.com
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You guys are totally losing it. Karen has no relationship with Casa, ALA, is not a parent rep for ANY program and is NOT on this board. What is your deal? Her son went to wilderness and then to an academic TBS in VA for not even a year. She posts on strugglingteens but otherwise has nothing to do with the industry.
What is this obsession and people pretending to be Karen when they post? Are you guys trying to incite each other? Get a life.
Ben's Dad
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If you had read the thread, you might have discerned that this is a different Karen being discussed here, Ben's Dad.
Same mistake made in the BC forum. Someone assumed that the Karen discussed in that thread (KareninDallas) was the one being discussed in this thread (BuzzKill).
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =40#121641 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11137&forum=37&start=40#121641)
This parent's kid did attend Casa and ALA.
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Hey Brian!
How ya doing?!
So good to hear from you :smokin:
Karen in Ky
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//This parent's kid did attend Casa and ALA.//
No - If your talking about Ky Karen -
It wasn't Casa, but rather Dundee Ranch, and then ALA.
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Woops, wrong W program. Sorry to add to the confusion.