Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: outmama on February 19, 2004, 12:27:00 PM
-
Does anyone here know anything about this places history? My friend is considering sending her teenage child here. She has been having lost of troubles. Is this place safe? has anyone every been through there program? What can we expect to come out? Please..any information would be helpful. We are very scared, and don't know what else to do.
[ This Message was edited by: outmama on 2004-02-19 10:03 ]
-
http://www.isaccorp.com (http://www.isaccorp.com)
-
http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/ ... Docket.htm (http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/WvPURE/Docket.htm)
http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/WvPURE/ (http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/WvPURE/)
-
I saw your message/plea about Whitmore Academy. We were in the same situation as you last fall with our grandson--not knowing where to turn. He went there last fall and it was very hard for him to adjust at first. Now, he seems very happy there and seems to be doing okay. We keep hoping for a big turn-around, but we are still holding our breath. If nothing else, he seems safe and well-cared for--and it is a year where he won't be in trouble here.
Good Luck!
-
On 2004-04-09 10:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I saw your message/plea about Whitmore Academy. We were in the same situation as you last fall with our grandson--not knowing where to turn. He went there last fall and it was very hard for him to adjust at first. Now, he seems very happy there and seems to be doing okay. We keep hoping for a big turn-around, but we are still holding our breath. If nothing else, he seems safe and well-cared for--and it is a year where he won't be in trouble here.
Good Luck!"
Hey Grandma, who referred your grandson into Whitmore? And why in the world are you holding your breath for something that may or may not even happen? BREATHE!!! And bring your grandson home.
:eek:
-
On 2004-02-19 09:27:00, outmama wrote:
"Does anyone here know anything about this places history? My friend is considering sending her teenage child here. She has been having lost of troubles. Is this place safe? has anyone every been through there program? What can we expect to come out? Please..any information would be helpful. We are very scared, and don't know what else to do.
[ This Message was edited by: outmama on 2004-02-19 10:03 ]"
-
I don't know anything about them but what's on their web page. Take a look:
http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery/whitmore.html (http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery/whitmore.html)
Their banner graphic at the top of the page says "Freedom through discipline" Yikes :eek:
Is that like Arbeit Macht Frei?
I'd be interested to know about this place, though. Do they take involuntary placements? From the courts or only from parents? Are they licensed as a juvenile detention center? Do the students have normal, reasonable access to communications?
Who owns the place? Who works there? The web page only lists first names. http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery/staff.html (http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery/staff.html) That seems a little strange, don't you think?
Anybody know any of these things? If the person who started this thread is for real and doesn't know any of these very basic facts, then I hope to Christ they're not actually considering sending a loved one there. A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trust either of them
P.J. O'Rourke
-
http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery ... index.html (http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery/weblog/iblog/B1919985813/C2045108960/E424466084/index.html)
Is that a report by a student/counselor w/ authority over other students? Or am I reading this wrong?For the community to have 10% to 25% of its men unable to vote or unable to access credit or other privileges of citizenship for the rest of their lives in some states creates a permanently diminished
group within society.
Jeremy Travis, Urban Institute
-
I went through the program at the whitmore academy, and I will say this, it is very hard for them to follow through on what they say. I have had a bunch of my things up at there lodge in Canada for a few years, and I keep calling them only to hear over and over that they have not made it up there, it has been about two years since i have left and still none of my things have been returned. I would not recommend this place to a parent looking for a place to send their child. I have worked for them as well, and when i had they kept telling me stuff like my parents did not want me to come home, when i had called my family on my cell phone they informed me that they had said none of that and they would love for me to return. In my, and my familes opinion these are not trust worthy people.
-
Well I'm very glad to hear that your family came out of it intact. So many of us had to choose, or continually have to choose, between our families and the Program.
So, what's the deal w/ this place? Did you ever write reports like the one I linked to? (is the link still good?) If so, who writes those? What can you tell me about how the program works?If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb
-
http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery ... index.html (http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery/weblog/iblog/B1919985813/C381614193/index.html)
What the hell is a "subliminal"???
-
http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery ... index.html (http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery/Hannah/B624581687/C1757453608/E286340227/index.html)
and why can I access Hannah's report card?
-
http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm ... ID=1511629 (http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=584099&CategoryID=328871&startcat=1&ThreadID=1511629)
Check out the parent's forum. This whole link is about parents wondering why they are not receiving responses to e-mails they are sending to their kids. One parent goes on to ask if the school is censoring the emails. Now, wouldn't a responsible parent question any rules regarding communication with their kids prior to sending their kid to that school?
-
Do they have places in canada and the usa? What kind of discipline do they use?
-
This place I went to is very humane, they will also recommend someplace if you want.
http://65.108.236.215/referrals.htm (http://65.108.236.215/referrals.htm)
-
Im a former resident of the Whitmore Academy. too make a long story short this place needs to be closed down. there is a lot of abuse that goes on there... and even after being home for almost a year i still get nightmares about that place. the webiste is fake, when u call up to talk to the people abou the program they will tell some of the kids exactly what to say and if they dont say it the right way they will go in OP, that is when u lye face on the floor without moving a muscle or speaking for as long as they keep you there which can be up to a few days. if you move they will beat you. you get brainwashed and verbally abused all day long. Im trying to get cps to check this place out. Tthis is a very private and DISCRETE program that no one really knows anything about. The program is based on the mormon religion and you are forced to practice that and only that, every other religion and belief is forbidden. if you don't, there will be serious consequences. Everything is sugarcoated and kept very discrete... no one really knows anything about this place. but please do not send your child here..
-
Why didn't you tell your parents or go to the authorities? This place sounds bad. How can they get away with it and why doesn't anyone speak up?
-
stupid ppls dont know crap[ This Message was edited by: sk8kid511 on 2004-07-21 19:11 ]
-
to reply to your message this place is wonderful. they dont ever touch us. they love us like we were their own and none of the negative stuff is true. this place is the best place u can send your kids. i am a former student here and my life is completly changed because of this place. i love the way they help u go the right way and the extra mile in everything we do. we ride horses if we want and we get our education throughout the year. i love it here soo much
:wave:
-
On 2004-07-21 16:43:00, horselover116 wrote:
"to reply to your message this place is wonderful. they dont ever touch us. they love us like we were their own and none of the negative stuff is true. this place is the best place u can send your kids. i am a former student here and my life is completly changed because of this place. i love the way they help u go the right way and the extra mile in everything we do. we ride horses if we want and we get our education throughout the year. i love it here soo much
:wave: "
If you are a former student why are you using the present tense? Perhaps you are actually a "plant" from the school?
-
Dammed if i know
-
dont you guys have a life? I really cant believe you have this much time to be so negative. why dont you deal with your feelings and move on. I am so sorry that you got sent to such bad programs but no matter how hard you bash the whitmore... the truth will win. why dont you let the only good program focus on what they do like helping so many people have a life like you should try and get. this is so pathetic. sorry i just dont have time for this stupidity. yes i am at the whitmore. i quess you could say i am a plant because i am growing here. but the door is always open. dont you get freedom through dicipline? you are the ones that have no freedom, why do you stay up all night trying to get negative people to validate your negative feelings. Perry one of the negative people is one of the unhappiest negative people i have ever heard of. he was in alot of different programs, and has bashed all of them it is to bad that he turned on mark and cheryl like this after all they have done for him. the other crap it just that. they are just lies that someone who isnt in or has ever been in the program has made up. why i dont know and dont have time to figure out. there are so many other worthy things to focus on. please leave this people and what they do alone. why dont you go see for yourself. I agree there are some horrible places out there. but these people arent trying to take the kids lifes away from them they are trying to help them find their lifes. they always have there doors open and what you see is what you get they are real. and help people like you and me. Id tell you who i am but i dont need you to harras me like you do others.
-
Good Morning everyone,
Just wanted to share with you all about my visit with my son this past weekend. He has been at Whitmore since Feb. He had been suicidal and hospitalized for 2 months prior to his arrival. I truly believe that Cheryl and Mark saved my sons life. Not just in the physical sense but also in a higher sense.
My son has found purpose and joy in his life. He is healthy and more loving. Granted school work, as we traditionally know it, is not stressed, however, my son has never functioned in school at any level that mattered He never read, rarely wrote and was totally demotivated.
I watched my son write in his journal each night for 1/2 hour, and read as well. In his 14 years on earth..this was a first. I'm certain that this experience will help him long term in his academics and career. He knows what responsiblity is, hard work and the satisfaction of doing a good job.
Please rest assured, your children are in good hands. It's really important that we don't give our kids reasons to doubt them...they need to believe in the program, and so do we.
-
Thank you for your perspective and experience. My daughter has been at Whitmore for 5 months and I haven't been able to visit yet, but we are in contact every week when they aren't on a trip. She seems to be happy and learning about herself and trying to figure out what kind of person she wants to be. Anyway, in my gut I feel that she is in a place that can help her, but I always worry if we have done the right thing...
Anyway, thanks for your words.
Take Care
-
On 2004-07-19 15:39:00, fiero1718 wrote:
"Im a former resident of the Whitmore Academy. too make a long story short this place needs to be closed down. there is a lot of abuse that goes on there... and even after being home for almost a year i still get nightmares about that place. the webiste is fake, when u call up to talk to the people abou the program they will tell some of the kids exactly what to say and if they dont say it the right way they will go in OP, that is when u lye face on the floor without moving a muscle or speaking for as long as they keep you there which can be up to a few days. if you move they will beat you. you get brainwashed and verbally abused all day long. Im trying to get cps to check this place out. Tthis is a very private and DISCRETE program that no one really knows anything about. The program is based on the mormon religion and you are forced to practice that and only that, every other religion and belief is forbidden. if you don't, there will be serious consequences. Everything is sugarcoated and kept very discrete... no one really knows anything about this place. but please do not send your child here.."
I think this is one kid?s perspective. Our son is in his 7th month at Whitmore. We have seen him twice over the past two months (once for a weekend we took him out in Utah and the second just last month for four days with my daughters in Las Vegas). Both times we had incredible wonderful times with him completely away from the school. During the first visit we actually gave him the full choice of whether he wanted to stay or leave Whitmore right then and he chose to stay. We have regular and open communication with him and this is one of the most open and transparent programs I have ever seen. Concerning schooling, we know this is not a strength at Whitmore but after he got on track emotionally, he has now for the first time in his life started to put heart and soul into his schoolwork. He has done 7 packets (almost 2 credit hours out of 25 needed to graduate) in the past two weeks. Most of all we have a son whose attitude has completely changed towards our family, whose drug tendencies have been broken and who seems now to have a real sense of purpose and direction in his life. About 3 years ago we had him in a lock down program in Missouri for a year. That program was a nightmare for him and he surely knows the difference. This program has definitely helped put his life back on track.
I am a Christian minister and although I do not follow the Mormon faith, I have not found that my son has been brainwashed or forced to violate his Christian heritage. From my perspective, the folks at Whitmore recognize the value of faith in a person?s life and live their faith out the best they know how. He has been reading the Bible as his reading material recently and has only been encouraged in that. I hope this helps ? I am only trying to share some honest feedback as a parent.
-
I sure appreciate your words of reassurance! Our daughter has been at Whitmore since the end of March. We're going to 'Parents Weekend', but haven't seen her otherwise. Our daughter seems to be receiving what she needs at Whitmore, and seems to be growing as quickly as we could expect. We're trusting Cheryl and Mark based on our research and our gut feeling when we visited them and participated in group. I agree that we need to believe in the program. Thanks so much for sharing your experiences!
-
On 2004-07-22 07:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
but haven't seen her otherwise. Our daughter seems to be receiving what she needs at Whitmore,
Then... on what do you base your perception?
I have to tell you this. If, in my 5th (final) phase of "treatment" my own father had asked me privately if I wanted to stay or leave, I would have thought it was a set up and told him, entheusiastically and convincingly, that I just loved the Program and never wanted to leave.
Neither one of you has any firsthand knowledge of how your kids are doing or how they're being treated. Your mutual reassuarance is hollow and circular.
Were the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. Thus in France the emetic was once forbidden as a medicine, and the potato as an article of food. Government is just as infallible,[sic] too, when it fixes systems in physics. Galileo was sent to the Inquisition for affirming that the earth was a sphere.... It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
It is wrong to leave a stumbling block in the road once it has tripped you.
-
"dont you get freedom through dicipline." = "Arbeit Macht Frei"
Babylon in all its desolation is a sight not so awful as that of the human mind in ruins.
-- Scrope Davies: Letter to Thomas Raikes, May 25, 1835.
-
All of the following posts came from the same IP address:
2004-07-22 07:20:00 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#55474 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4457&forum=22&start=20#55474)
" yes i am at the whitmore. "
2004-07-22 07:26:00 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#55476 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4457&forum=22&start=20#55476)
"Just wanted to share with you all about my visit with my son this past weekend."
2004-07-22 07:33:00 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#55478 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4457&forum=22&start=20#55478)
" My daughter has been at Whitmore for 5 months and I haven't been able to visit yet,"
2004-07-22 07:36:00 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#55479 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4457&forum=22&start=20#55479)
" Our son is in his 7th month at Whitmore."
2004-07-22 07:39:00 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#55480 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4457&forum=22&start=20#55480)
" Our daughter has been at Whitmore since the end of March. We're going to 'Parents Weekend',"
So it's very, very unlikely that the poster(s) are both students and/or staff AND parents located in another state, isn't it? In fact, it sure seems likely to me that these people (if, indeed, there is more than one poster) are sitting in the same room, using the same computer. So then, you might ask, why are they posting to a public forum instead of just speaking directly to each other?
I can think of a couple of obvious reasons.
Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
It is wrong to leave a stumbling block in the road once it has tripped you.
-
This is pathetic. Seriously. If I was stuck in an awful abusive program for a year or two I'd definitely want to make the most of my time from then on after wasting a couple years.
Either you have a lot of time on your hands and are really bored with it, or you let this petty topic piss you off so bad you just must express your anger by wasting time tracking IPs.
Maybe they're posting that stuff all on this topic to prove a point. Maybe that point is YOU'RE WRONG. No matter how right you think you are, no matter what happened to you in your past, just chill out and accept the facts. Kids love it at that place. Parents love their kids being there.
In a world of programs full of hate, misery, and abuse, can't there be a light in the darkness? Just accept goodness for what it is.If you think yourself too wise to involve
yourself in government, you will be governed
by those too foolish to govern.
--Plato
-
On 2004-07-22 16:02:00, sk8kid511 wrote:
Kids love it at that place. Parents love their kids being there.
Then why aren't any real people posting truthfully to that effect? Why does someone have to pretend to be cheerful, grateful students and parents?
In a world of programs full of hate, misery, and abuse, can't there be a light in the darkness? Just accept goodness for what it is.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
[Note my signature]
A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement
Thomas Jefferson
-
You don't know that for certain. They could be letters from parents posted to prove their point and uphold the program's positive reputation. I have read your signature before, and that must've been awful. No one in the world deserves to go through that.
I do believe in your quote about the train, but I also believe that the light can also be a flicker of candlelight in a dark room. The candlelight is there for those to read their own manual to life, finding out who they really are, what kind of things they need to work on, and where their issues came from. It is near impossible to read the print in the darkness surrounding, so they must go to the light to see.
I'm not saying you have to believe me. I'm not going to even attempt to make anyone believe. I'm only speaking the truth and hoping for people to listen.
Antigen, I do wish you could look at the positive side of things and move on with your life. Not everything is bad. Some people get hit harder than others, but everyone can learn unconditional love and happiness. I've had my share of crap in my life, just like everyone else. Nobody has a perfect life, and I'm sure you know that just as well as we all do.
What I am trying to say is that life is how you look at it, not how it comes at you. There are always positive things no matter what situation you're in. If you choose to look at those positive things instead of focusing on the negative, you will live a much, much happier life. I used to focus on the negative. I used to hate so, so strongly and hold such a grudge against so many people. Now, I just look at the positive and I've learned unconditional love. Unconditional love means that no matter what happens, you will always love that person. It is seriously the strongest thing out there. Please, try to look at the positive. Hypothetical situation: There may be a tropical storm outside, the AC broken, no food in the fridge, no money, and no job, but you got your family beside you, a roof over your head, a cute little dog, and we need that rain.
No, I can't change the world by saying things like that. I'd like to think I'd at least change a few people, though, and maybe get a few more to just see it from that point of view. Please try it. Love is so much better than fear.
-
Well, it looks like a synanon, sounds like one, is reputed to be one. Can you show me some evidence to the contrary?
Even if these posts were made by seperate people (which is doubtful) why do they feel they have to be deceptive in pretending to talk to eachother in this forum? If there are so damned many happy campers, where the hell are they? And why can't you take at face value the viewpoints offered by some other posters (whom, btw, are not posting from the same computer [only takes me one click to find out]) and who tell a very different story?
For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet isn't half bad."
-- Newsweek, 2/27/95
-
Well, the program itself has changed since I have left there, but from what I hear it is still very unorganized. In fact I found out from my father this afternoon when we were discussing the buisness about the owners of the Whitmore Acedemy, he mentioned to me they had read what I wrote on this page earlier and sent my family an E-mail about it. My father had also read what i had written and agrees with everything I had said. My father is a very respectable man and also a very respectable doctor, and it also came out in the dicussion we had that they also owe my parents some money, a rather large sum, that has not been repayed in the last two years,I guess my family had payed them for a few months of me being there and then I had left the program and they had not been reimbursed. now like I mentioned earlier, I, and my family do not believe these people to be trustworthy.
-
i got out of a program and it was hell and it was one of the better programs! so people who have your kid or kids in one take em out before it is to late.your kids may sound,look or act better but have you ever thought that mabey they have just learned to hide it better? you learn so much from others in a program u usually come out knowing more than you wish to.some programs if your kids know about drugs and the program travels get your kids to help em' smuggle drugs in and out of countries and state lines. ive seen this before.Some programs like the one i was in put you in a circle and if try to run they kick you,and beat you till u bleed.the staff allowed this and said it was fine as long as you dont kick em in the face! and some programs use some kind of "mind game" itll make your kid think different for a while till he snaps out.Some girls in things are raped. programs will even set u up with drugs and bribe the parents to give the Academy somthing in exchange for yo kid not to do some time!MY sugestion,witch no one has to listen to,is dont give up on anything cause if you do and somthing happens how are you going to live with it?to know your son/daughter was raped,beat,or corrupted by a place YOU sent them!just plez be carefull! :exclaim:
-
After reading this bullshit i'm suprised i havent destroyed this so called "wonderful" place the Whitmore Academy. Yeah i went through the so called "treatment" program, and let me just tell you, these are the most euphemistic people you will ever meet. I could go on forever about whats wrong with them and the place. If you're looking to brainwash the shit out of your child and throw fear and pain into their lives then go right the fuck ahead and send them to lovely little Utah. Those mother fucking HYPOCRITES OVER THERE Are just so concerned about having a "positive reputation" so they could continue intaking $,4000 A MONTH FOR SITTING AROUND ON THEIR LAZY ASSES AND BITCHIGN AND COMPLAINING ALL FUCKING DAY AND BEING THE DEMENTED LITTLE HYPOCRITES THAT THEY ARE oh ands BLASTING AND I MEAN BLASTING THE DEAR SHIT OUT OF THE FUCKING KIDS THAT ARE IN THAT PROGRAM , MAKING US UR LITTLE NIGGER SLAVES !!. HYPOCRITES ! the kids there.. brainwashed... The owners and staff, liars. sick. animal abusers. they all make me want to fucking puke all fucking over them ! FUCK! OH MY GOD I JUST SAID A "CUSSS" WORD AM I GANNA BURN IN HELL FOREVER IF I DONT "REPENT" WELL FUCK YOU THERE IS NO HELL AND THERE IS NO HEAVEN ! WHO PROVED THAT TO YOU ASSHOLES?! YOUR NOT PROMISED TO LAY ON CLOUDS N STRUM HARPS AFTER YOU DIE IF U LIVE A SHITTY DULL BORING LIFE. FUTALITY ! IGNORANCE ! and since you SCUMBAGS so strongly believe in karma, what the FUCK makes you think that you won't get the karma with the destructiion you've done to so many lives, including my own. i appreciate the accusations and abuse i got there i really fuckign do ! and GO AHEAD AND STAY IN DENIAL , BUT I'M SURE YOU KNOW DOWN IN THOSE BLACK HEARTS OF YOURS, THAT YOU'RE NOT EXACTLY RIGHT IN THE HEAD. YOU KNOCKED ME DOWN AND SPIT ON ME WHEN I WAS THERE BUT OH BABY AM I STRONGER NOW !! AHAHA. Fucking SCUM OF THE EARTH. YEAH SOUND FIRMILIAR?! SCUM OF THE EARTH !? Ugh you make me SICK ! just wait for your KARMA to come :smile:
-
I wonder if you guys could give a little detail?
Anon second post back. Why do you think the program you were in was one of the better ones? Let me tell you, at The Seed, they told them they were lucky not to be in Synanon. At Straight, we were to be grateful we weren't in The Seed. In Sarasota and St. Pete Straight branches, clients were told they were damned lucky they weren't in the other location, till Atlanta opened. And so on and so on until, if you call up SAFE, Orlando or Growing Together in Lake Worth, they'll go on and on about how entirely different they are since the name change (from Straight, Inc and LIFE, Inc, respectively.
It would be helpful if you could give some detail about what goes on there. Not just the over-the-top abuses that occure, but in what kind of day-to-day environment they occured.
What were the rules? How were they enforced? How did you get there? How long? How did you get out? How hard to you have to work to keep from getting sent back "on warranty"? Those kinds of things.Do you support drug prohibition because it finances criminals at home or because it finances terrorists abroad?
--Anonymous
-
I think you're right on. These posts that are just too good to be true are from the industry!
-
Five months without yet seeing your child? And, you allow this? Even prisons allow visitors.
-
This message is to the person who was at the whitmore and left there stuff up in canada and it hasnt been returned....i might know something about it and is ur name Nate?
-
You say no to send our children there. WHY?
Can anyone tell me about this place. Do they use drugs? Do they medicate these kids, Can they call home anytime they want? The web site has no info at all on it. How come more boys than girls? Why is there only 30 plus kids? What is the religous practice. Do they force the mormon beliefs on these children? PLEASE REPLY
-
My daughter is there right now. Cheryl and
her family are wonderful people.
My daughter has turned around 100% - she is
cheerful, helpful, resourceful, and resiliant,
all of which she was not before she went.
All of the children there seemed to be
above average in terms of these qualities.
My wife and I spent the weekend there during
"Parents weekend", and if there was anything amis
I think that I would have been able to detect
it. One of the horses broke loose when I was
there earlier, because a train spooked it - one
of the kids confidantly walked up to the rearing
horse and calmed it down - I was really
impressed.
The school is a madhouse, though - there is so
much going on. I found it very hard
to get information out of them when we were
looking at schools - communicating with the
parents is the absolute last priority, and you
really have to work hard to get information.
They are an A+ in terms of their ability to
deal with the students in a way that helps
the students grow - but a D- in their ability
to communicate enough to the parents to make
the parents comfortable.
I think that the thing that makes the school work
is that they turned their disorganization into
a strength - they delegate a lot to the students
and the students benefit as a result.
I dont think that there is any physical dicipline.
Mainly the school is held together by the
formidible personality of Cheryl. The students
want to please her, so they work hard to get
positive feedback. The students work from
5 in the morning until 10 at night - they
clean the whole house every day, clean out
their horse stalls, build fences, ride horses,
cook meals, etc. I am really happy about the
work ethic and life skills that my daughter is
getting.
A particularly impressive part of the school
is the group therapy - whenever there is some
conflict among the students, they drop everything
and get to the bottom of it. When I was there
I saw a group session on "who took the computer
charger", and it turned out that one of the
students was spreading rumors that another one
took it, but you could not find that out until
you got everyone together. (the charger turned
out to just have been lost).
Maybe I will find out some "horrible truth"
when my daughter gets back, but I doubt it.
She is doing absolutely fantastically at
the school - I wish that I sent her a couple
of years ago, we could have avoided a really
hard time, and I would have had more "good
years" with her before she left for college.
It is hard to send your child away
for a year, but I think that any fears
that you have will be gone if you go to
visit the school. The magic of the school
is not really visible on the webpage, you
have to go there.
Cheers,
Eric
-
Hi Eric. Thanks for posting. Could you please answer these questions and one or two of mine?
"You say no to send our children there. WHY?
Can anyone tell me about this place. Do they use drugs? Do they medicate these kids, Can they call home anytime they want? The web site has no info at all on it. How come more boys than girls? Why is there only 30 plus kids? What is the religous practice. Do they force the mormon beliefs on these children? PLEASE REPLY"
My questions: When I looked at the website (a long while ago) it seems to me that Whitmore was part of a small network of schools/programs. How does that work? Do the kids start out at one facility then move to another? Also, I remember reading something about "subliminals" as a daily requirement. What's that about?
If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb
-
"You say no to send our children there. WHY?
I wasn't the one that said that... I think
that it is a great place.
"Can anyone tell me about this place. Do they use drugs? Do they medicate these kids"
No, not on a regular basis, which is what
I think that you mean. If they get sick,
I don't know what the policy is (antibiotics,
etc) - I imagine that they would call you
before any drugs are administered. There are
no narcotics or alchohol.
"Can they call home anytime they want?"
No - for the first month you have no phone
contact, because the kids have serious
homesickness. After that you get weekly
emails from kids (via the administrators),
and you can call your child for 10 minutes on
Sundays (if they are not travelling, which
they do about 30% of the time). The kids
also post a "weblog", where they evaluate
each other - and the kids don't pull any
punches ("so-and-so is not pulling his
weight, he is just lazy and needs to
get his attitude turned around", etc.).
The kids writing the weblogs are the ones
who have been there a while, and are the
group leaders.
"The web site has no info at all on it."
The web site is completely maintaned by
the kids. The kids all have laptop computers
and run the website, and they also make the
slideshows and movies. There are two
websites http://www.whitmoreacademy.com (http://www.whitmoreacademy.com) and
http://www.whoamidiscovery.com (http://www.whoamidiscovery.com). The first one
is the good one - read the weblogs.
"How come more boys than girls?"
I didn't do a headcount, but I would guess
that it is the other way around (more girls
than boys). Kids come and go every month -
so the balance changes all the time. The
boys have their own house, and it is smaller
than the girls house.
"Why is there only 30 plus kids"
The school is run like a large family - I think
that there are about 40 kids, and more would
be too many. If you go there you will understand,
it is a lovely madhouse. More than 40 kids
would be too much.
"What is the religous practice. Do they force the mormon beliefs on these children? PLEASE REPLY"
The kids go to Mormon church, or they can opt
out and write an essay instead on some aspect
of any religion. None of the kids opt for the
essay.
I am an athiest, and my wife is some kind of
new age faith healer, and neither of us are
uncomfortable with the level of religious
pressure. Mark and Cheryl
would be very happy if the kids became mormons,
I am sure, but there are kids of all faiths
there, and it is certainly not some brainwashing
center.
My questions: When I looked at the website (a long while ago) it seems to me that Whitmore was part of a small network of schools/programs. How does that work? Do the kids start out at one facility then move to another?
No - the only association that I know of was
with the local "Landmark school" for the
academics, but I think that Whitmore has
been acredited so they don't do that anymore.
Also, I remember reading something about "subliminals" as a daily requirement. What's that about?
Subliminals are recordings of positive
messages like "you are great, a powerful
person in the world, blah blah blah". They
kids put them on while they are getting
dressed, I think. They gave me a tape to
listen to, but I didn't get a chance while
I was there because the rental car didn't have
a tape player.
Other stuff to know about the school -
The make the kids remove all non-positive
songs from their computers, and computer
audits are done often (my daugter had to
remove "living dead girl", for example).
There is a subtle "pre-women's lib" vibe
going on at the school about the differences
between men and women (the boys are given
harder work to do, although the girls work
much harder than is usual - and the girls
diets are kept under firm control, in order
to keep them from getting fat). My daughter
has lost some weight there, and is happy about
it, but I didn't think she was overweight
before.
All of the kids seemed very healthy, as well
as physically sturdy and confident.
Horseback riding and travel are the two
primary focuses of activity.
They seem to eat quite a bit of junk food
on the road, but since they are physically
active for 16 hours a day, I am sure that
it does them no harm.
Once per year there is a parents weekend,
which was in Auguest.
You can visit whenever you like (probably not
in the first month or two, though).
Cheers,
Eric
-
PS
I read over the previous 5 pages of postings,
and one from fiero1718 must be talking about
a different school - I just can't imagine it
being true about Whitmore.
The fellow that still has his stuff in
Canada - I can see that happening. Attention
to details like picking up somebody's forgotten
stuff in Canada and sending it back could
easily be put on the back burner for a couple
of years. They have 1000 things to do, and
only 900 get done - if you really need something
you have to be persistent. This bothered me
more initially than it does now - if you send
them an email asking 10 questions, you will
get a very brief answer to one question.
The duplicate IP addresses are probably
the work of the students standing up for their
school.
The fellow who did the post about "N* slaves"
seems kind of disturbed - I think the post
reveals more about him than about Whitmore.
The grains of truth there are that the
children work *very* hard, and there is a
constant (but loving) pressure to behave well,
learn, and grow.
Social pressure is very strong at the
school, both from above and peer pressure.
I think that this is what makes the school
work with no physical dicipline.
Cheers,
Eric
-
Wait a second here. Are we talking about Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks?
This might explain why the former student is having a hard time retrieving their belongings from Canada.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=30#47014 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5248&forum=7&start=30#47014)
http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cg ... buse010227 (http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/02/27/animal_abuse010227)
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
--James Madison, U.S. President
-
Eric, can you explain how they get oppositional, troubled teenagers to work like Chinamen and love it? How do they get them to stay there? What stops them from simply walking away? How do the students arrive? Did you bring your kid there yourself or hire a "transport" service?
Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
-
"Eric, can you explain how they get oppositional, troubled teenagers to work like Chinamen and love it?"
"Work like Chinamen" is kind of offensive in
these modern days, btw. They work hard because
that is the culture there - everything reinforces
the values of hard work, and rewards it with
positive feedback.
"How do they get them to stay there? What stops them from simply walking away?"
Some of them run away, but they don't get that
far. One of the kids stole one of the school
cars and made it a couple of hundred miles, but
ran out of gas. If your child runs away, you
are responsible for any costs incurred while
trying to find them.
How do the students arrive? Did you bring your kid there yourself or hire a "transport" service?
We went there to look at the place with all
of our kids (we have 3), and then our daughter
went by herself on the plane to Salt lake city.
Mark and Cheryl picked her up from the airport,
because they were on their way to Yosemite
for a camping trip. They forgot to phone us to
tell us that she had arrived safely, so we
spent 48 hours in fear until we got ahold of
somebody at the school - since then I have gotten
more used to their MO, and I trust the system
that they have set up.
Between you guys in this forum and my Mormon-hating friends who just gave me the book
"Under the banner of Heaven" - I spent the day
questioning my own judgement and doubting
Cheryl and Mark. So I dug up everything
Google could find, and it amounts to this:
1. The SPCA charge about leaving the horses with
no food.
I read the court transcripts, and I think that
they screwed up severely. Since I have met
Trinity, Mark and Cheryl, I know for sure
that meant well, because they are nice, animal
loving people. The only thing I can think of
is that all the individuals involved must have
thought that the other person was on the job:
http://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL- ... dweeks.htm (http://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL-SEIZURES/Regina-v.Sudweeks.htm)
The end result is that they lost the horses,
dogs, $124,000 and Mark is never allowed to
own animals in BC again. Pretty severe
punishment, but it was a big mess up, and I
imagine that they learned their lesson. I
can't contact them right now, because they
are at a lake retreat.
2. Alleged co-ownership of "New Hope Academy",
a school in Somoa that was closed because
children were abused and abandoned:
Here is the allegation:
http://www.isaccorp.com/wwasp/documents/wwasplist.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.com/wwasp/documents/wwasplist.pdf)
Here is what appears to be the whole story - it
looks like Mark was not involved, he just
got ripped off by the bad guy:
http://www.teenliberty.org/Samoan.htm (http://www.teenliberty.org/Samoan.htm)
The perp, a scumbag named Steve Cartisano,
seems to have done this a number of times,
and is a slick con man.
Anyway, I am comfortable once again, and I
think that you will be too if you go visit
and see how things work there. We looked
at a second school (forget the name, but
the school was in Hurricane, UT) - it just
did not have the magic that Whitmore has.
The kids were kind of dead inside compared
to the Whitmore kids. Whitmore is a great
place.
Cheers,
Eric
-
On 2004-10-19 15:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How do they get them to stay there? What stops them from simply walking away?"
Some of them run away, but they don't get that
far. One of the kids stole one of the school
cars and made it a couple of hundred miles, but
ran out of gas. If your child runs away, you
are responsible for any costs incurred while
trying to find them.
So then, they actively look for kids who run? And what do they do when they find them? Just talk? What? How do they make them go back? How do they discourage them from running in the first place?
How do the students arrive? Did you bring your kid there yourself or hire a "transport" service?
We went there to look at the place with all
of our kids (we have 3), and then our daughter
went by herself on the plane to Salt lake city.
Mark and Cheryl picked her up from the airport,
because they were on their way to Yosemite
for a camping trip. They forgot to phone us to
tell us that she had arrived safely, so we
spent 48 hours in fear until we got ahold of
somebody at the school - since then I have gotten
more used to their MO, and I trust the system
that they have set up.
So then your daughter went voluntarily? Do they take involuntary placements?
Between you guys in this forum and my Mormon-hating friends who just gave me the book
"Under the banner of Heaven" - I spent the day
questioning my own judgement and doubting
Cheryl and Mark. So I dug up everything
Google could find, and it amounts to this:
1. The SPCA charge about leaving the horses with
no food.
I read the court transcripts, and I think that
they screwed up severely. Since I have met
Trinity, Mark and Cheryl, I know for sure
that meant well, because they are nice, animal
loving people. The only thing I can think of
is that all the individuals involved must have
thought that the other person was on the job:
http://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL- ... dweeks.htm (http://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL-SEIZURES/Regina-v.Sudweeks.htm)
The end result is that they lost the horses,
dogs, $124,000 and Mark is never allowed to
own animals in BC again. Pretty severe
punishment, but it was a big mess up, and I
imagine that they learned their lesson. I
can't contact them right now, because they
are at a lake retreat.
2. Alleged co-ownership of "New Hope Academy",
a school in Somoa that was closed because
children were abused and abandoned:
Here is the allegation:
http://www.isaccorp.com/wwasp/documents/wwasplist.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.com/wwasp/documents/wwasplist.pdf)
Here is what appears to be the whole story - it
looks like Mark was not involved, he just
got ripped off by the bad guy:
http://www.teenliberty.org/Samoan.htm (http://www.teenliberty.org/Samoan.htm)
The perp, a scumbag named Steve Cartisano,
seems to have done this a number of times,
and is a slick con man.
Anyway, I am comfortable once again, and I
think that you will be too if you go visit
and see how things work there. We looked
at a second school (forget the name, but
the school was in Hurricane, UT) - it just
did not have the magic that Whitmore has.
The kids were kind of dead inside compared
to the Whitmore kids. Whitmore is a great
place.
Cheers,
Eric
"
I sincerely hope you're right. But I can't fathom being so trusting of strangers w/ my own daughter. I have no reason to doubt the kid(s) who've posted here about verbal and physical abuse at Whitmore. And it seems that Mark and Cheryl's names come up pretty frequently in the context of typical troubled parent industry excesses.
Babylon in all its desolation is a sight not so awful as that of the human mind in ruins.
-- Scrope Davies: Letter to Thomas Raikes, May 25, 1835.
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
"So then, they actively look for kids who run? And what do they do when they find them? Just talk? What? How do they make them go back? How do they discourage them from running in the first place?"
I don't know the details on how runaways are
handled - basically it is a pleasent place,
and the kids don't want to run away for the
most part. The school is not for "hard case kids"
with serious drug problems and such like,
so they can afford to make it a pleasent (non
prision like) environment.
Would you prefer that they *don't* actively
look for kids that run away? That sounds
like crazy talk.
"I sincerely hope you're right. But I can't fathom being so trusting of strangers w/ my own daughter. I have no reason to doubt the kid(s) who've posted here about verbal and physical abuse at Whitmore. And it seems that Mark and Cheryl's names come up pretty frequently in the context of typical troubled parent industry excesses."
I never saw their name come up once, anywhere
but this thread. Can you give me some examples?
The International Survivors Action comittee
(http://www.isaccorp.org/ (http://www.isaccorp.org/)) does not list them
as one of the suspect schools.
The reason that I trust them is that I have
met them, and talked to my daughter (away
from the school, after two months). My
daughter would prefer to stay there for the
rest of high school, but we can't afford that,
so she will either home school or go back
to the Waldorf school when she gets back.
I think that I can tell when people have
been abused, and there is absolutely no way
that these kids could have been abused
at the school.
You have to trust others with your kids at
some point, if only when they go to college.
Cheers,
Eric
-
Ooops - I missed one of your questions, sorry.
"So then your daughter went voluntarily? Do they take involuntary placements?"
Yes, she was voluntary. My wife was all hot on
the school, and I was very against it, before
we went to see the school.
After we visited, she decided that she wanted to
go there, we gave her the choice of whatever
school she wanted to go to that we could
afford. She was going to be put back a grade
in her current school, which is why she was
willing to change, and Whitmore was her first
choice of schools to change to.
Visiting the school changed my mind. I don't
think much of religions, but I was won over by
the people (students and adults both). The
Waldorf school is also Christian, and it
hasn't seemed to hurt my kids.
They do take involentary placements, I would
guess about 25% of the students are involentary.
Cheers,
Eric
-
On 2004-10-19 18:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
You have to trust others with your kids at
some point, if only when they go to college.
Cheers,
Eric
"
No, when your kids go off to college, they're grown and responsible for themselves. You trust them, not someone else who has control over them.
What is the purpose of preventing communication w/ your daughter at first? Is that always for a set amount of time, or is communication w/ the outside world an earned priviledge?
"Would you prefer that they *don't* actively
look for kids that run away? That sounds
like crazy talk."
Normally, when a kid runs away, you either report them to the cops or you try and contact them yourself. But what I was asking is how they get the kid to go back.
Here are the things that worry me about Whittmore:
Im a former resident of the Whitmore Academy. too make a long story short this place needs to be closed down. there is a lot of abuse that goes on there... and even after being home for almost a year i still get nightmares about that place. the webiste is fake, when u call up to talk to the people abou the program they will tell some of the kids exactly what to say and if they dont say it the right way they will go in OP, that is when u lye face on the floor without moving a muscle or speaking for as long as they keep you there which can be up to a few days. if you move they will beat you. you get brainwashed and verbally abused all day long. Im trying to get cps to check this place out. Tthis is a very private and DISCRETE program that no one really knows anything about. The program is based on the mormon religion and you are forced to practice that and only that, every other religion and belief is forbidden. if you don't, there will be serious consequences. Everything is sugarcoated and kept very discrete... no one really knows anything about this place. but please do not send your child here..
This post:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#55500 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4457&forum=22&start=20#55500)
If you read the various messages coming in quick succession from the same location, you'll see that they claim to be a parent and a student and, I think, a former student, all claiming to be in different places. They're obviously not in different places. So, if Whitmore is so kind and gentle and pleasant, why would they have to use deception to make the point? Why not get actual happy students and former students who actually are in different parts of the country to post?
This anon post:
"YOU KNOCKED ME DOWN AND SPIT ON ME WHEN I WAS THERE BUT OH BABY AM I STRONGER NOW "
I have no more reason to believe you than this other stranger. I understand your motivations pretty well. Not casting any disparagement on you here. Everyone has motives for everything we do or we wouldn't do anything. Just that it's very easy to explain away all kinds of things, no matter what your gut tells you, if you really need to believe.
But the enforced non-communication is the big red flag. Why in the world would they prevent your kid from calling home? What do they say to them during the time that they're not allowed to talk to you?
(this just in)
They do take involentary placements, I would
guess about 25% of the students are involentary.
So, how do they keep involuntary kids there and get them to go along w/ the program? I'm not suggesting that they shackle them to the wall physically. It's so hard to articulate what I am trying to ask about here. Bear in mind that, after first phase (which could be anywhere from a month or two to many months) we were never physically restrained from leaving Straight. From third phase on, we even went to school or work and had physical access to phones and whatever. Even given all the true horror stories about what went on there, they didn't need to physically prevent us from leaving or from telling about what went one once they'd broken us down. We outnumbered staff onsite by roughly 20/1 most of the time, yet I can count the instances riots and walk-outs that occured over 16 years in over 20 locations on just one hand.
The thing that concerns me about these places is the psychological and emotional abuse that can and does occur under the right circumstances. Placing kids under the authority of other kids who, in turn, are under the authority of charismatic newage gurus and isolated even from their own families seems to set up just the right conditions for this kind of psyche abuse.
To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
I'm Eric's wife. I'm very sorry for your experience, but the Whitmore is not like what you describe or like what the "close it down" person implies. We went there and had a fabulous time. So much so that my middle daughter who is 9 really wants to go there when she comes of age, even though she has no problems, goes to a fantastic school, and is virtually perfect from a parental point of view. I asked the Whitmore if that would be possible and was given the answer that they do also accept students who have no struggles or problems - I was told that there are about 3 students like that currently. I see this experience as a brilliant rite of passage that suits the teenage transition well. Even though it costs so much money - about $45,000 for 1 year, we will seriously look at trying to afford it for my middle daughter. It is absolutely brilliant - my eldest daughter is amazingly redeemed. We are so impressed with their program. It seems so human yet stretches and heals these teenagers. We have not heard of anything that we would count as abuse. They have limits, not abuse.
It sounds as if you have had a terrible experience that would take some recovery. I hope that you get the good attention that you need to do that.
-
Look, Eric's wife, don't assume that my interest in the industry is nothing more than a personal grudge. It's not.
I'm interested to know how this school, or any other, goes about retaining students who are placed involuntarily. Do you know the answer? If not, then you should find out because, along with whatever else she's experiencing, your daughter is also wittnessing and/or participating in that.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The people who ran straight had the best of intentions. I hope they reached their destination.
James Lloyd
-
Who is this eric ? is it the same child abuser that was given free reign at cedu to do whatever his feelings tell him to do ? any melzer stories
-
On 2004-10-20 12:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who is this eric ? is it the same child abuser that was given free reign at cedu to do whatever his feelings tell him to do ? any melzer stories "
I have no idea what you are talking about,
sorry, mr/mrs Anonymous.
Anyway, Antigen - I will find out how they
retain their reluctant students and report
back. I'm feeling like you already have your
mind set, though.
What would be a school that would meet your
criteria as "good"? I think that any boarding
school would be a problem for you.
It looks to me like there is a system set up
here, where it is assumed that all of these
schools are abusive. Any information that
reinforces this is lauded, and anything that
does not reinforce it is disparaged as "part
of the conspiricy", or "must be someone from
the industry", or "don't know what you are
talking about, they are conning you".
The world is not so dark as that.
Cheers,
Eric
-
Is it true that they come and take the kids in the middle of the night and send them off?
-
They don't have to be. Escorts wake up kids in the early morning so the kid can't think to resist. (This is a good thing, btw.) However, parents do have the option of bringing the child themselves.
-
How is it a good thing to rope kids into these places w/o their informed consent?
There's only one party on Capital Hill and it's the bipartisan spending party.
Tom Schatz, president of Citizens Against Government Waste
-
I have been having some trouble in school and other things so my dad, looking for potential alternatives, went to whitmore and said it seemed very nice, but I looked into it and from all the stuff i'v read it seems a bit iffy. I looked on the website and on the kids personal schedules it says that they have a 17 hour day and the main activity seems to be cleaning. I dont wanna spend 4000 a month to help clean some families house. also, how can people say it doesnt seem very religeousley oriented. On every single childs personal page it started out saying "im a child of the heavenly father." and the stuff the right kindoff seems for lack of a better word, scripted. The vocabulary and use of language and spirituality seemed very advanced for a 16 year old.
-
Hello all,
Here is the answer to the multiple posts from the same IP address. There used to be a parents forum for the Whitmore. It was only up for a month or so. It was set up for parents of students at Whitmore to support each other and help with communications with the school. Several of us (yes - my daughter is a student there) began communicating and telling our stories and sharing some of our concerns and questions. One of the posts on this site was one that I had put on the parents site - but I did not put it here. I suspect someone decided to copy those posts from the parents forum and post them here to defend the school. For what it is worth, this is the answer to the multiple posts. Anyway, the site was closed down because of people that were not parents began entering the discussions and making things very unproductive - much like all the negative posts I have seen here from people that don't have any affiliation or experience with the Whitmore. I agree with Eric, in every statement he has made and know that my daughter is getting the help she needs from some very caring people.
-Christine
-
Sure you believe that. Just so long as you allow the people who are caring for your daughter now to insulate you from any unfavorable opinions or facts of the matter.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad.
-- Salvador Dali
-
My son now attends the Whitmore and is experiencing a new way to live his life. The group travels alot which gives him experiences that we, his parents, were unable to offer. Before going there 3 months ago, he was not interested at all in spending time with family. Honestly, before he chose Whitmore, I was unsure of his where abouts most of the time and paced the floors praying he was safe. With Mark and Cheryl, I know he is safe. We speak to our son on the phone twice a week and he says he's happy, learning and growing emotionally.
For the person having problems at school and home, this school is very expensive, this isn't a prestigious boarding school. Parents sacrifice alot to get help for their teens. Some kids have to go away to appreciate the love of their parents. Hopefully you can realize this while living at home. Good luck.
Karen
-
How can you know he is safe? Have you talked to the Child protctive services that are currently investigating them?
-
How I know he is safe is the open communication we have. I've spoken with him almost daily this last week since the false accusations made by a disgruntled troubled teen. My son called to fill us in on the actions of this drunken teen who was unruley with the police. I'm glad this has been investigated and this student has been permenantly removed. It's disturbing the way the investigation was done however. Our children were traumatized by protective agencies methods. The kids were hauled away and detained, forced to answer leading questions. Out of the nearly 40 kids who were interviewed and given the option to go home to their parents, only two chose to leave. My son is a strong boy and handled all this pretty good. The owners are helping him realize that he is developing tools to deal with his feelings. My son wants to complete the year long program if allowed.
I beleive the truth always comes to light. We have to remember how easy it is for a user who doesn't want to follow the program or rules to distort what is going on in order to escape having to face their own problems. I feel bad for these kid's parents who have nearly run out of options for helping their kids.
This Thanksgiving I am grateful for Mark and Cheryl's willingness to continue to minister even though they face false accusations.
-
Do you understand the dynamics of an abuse victim? They often defend and protect their abuser. It sometimes takes years before they can say it happened and even longer for them to truly believe they did not deserve it. If this were my child I would be investigating everything I could.
-
When I was at Straight, Inc., if my own father had taken me aside privately and asked me if I wanted to leave the program, I would have thought it was a trick and told him no, that I loved it there and never wanted to leave except by graduation. I would have been convincing, too, as the stakes were pretty high.
The people's right to change what does not work is one of the greatest
principles in our system of government
--Richard M. Nixon
-
Hi, I?d like to throw in my two cents. My name is Chris G, and I am currently enrolled at the Whitmore Academy. Previously, I was enrolled at Academy at Ivy Ridge. In 36 days I will turn eighteen years old. Before I get my message out I?d like to make sure that everyone knows that I?m writing this on my own personal laptop, on my own personal time. The past week has been absolutely horrible on Cheryl. Luckily, she has around 40 kids that care about her, and are there to support her through the hard times we?re all experiencing. Like I said earlier, I was enrolled at Academy at Ivy Ridge (WWASP) for 3 months. While at The Academy at Ivy Ridge I was often subjected to cruel treatment and physical abuse, as were many. As far as I am concerned, Mark and Cheryl saved my life when they took me from Ivy Ridge. There were many instances where the program director Jason Finlinson himself would ?put me on my face,? or give me the ?finlinson flop.? I?ve also been ?restrained? by the director of Tranquility Bay this past summer when he was in Ogdensburg for the annual director?s meeting. This is besides the issue I?m trying to address, but I think it?s important to realize that you can not compare the two.
Simply put, I can not understand why we must go through what we?re going through. At Ivy Ridge we?d break in to the computers we used for school so we could send letters to our congressmen. As you all know there are hundreds of complaints on the internet from kids and parents alike in regards to WWASP. Meanwhile, the State of Utah is too busy to investigate them because their harassing the Sudweeks. I honestly believe that the only reason why this is happening is because our doors are open and THEIRS are closed. Mark would gladly welcome in anyone at any time with open arms. Maybe that?s the problem? I sometimes think that Mark and Cheryl?s kindness leaves them vulnerable.
This message is particularly to Anonymous and Antigen. Antigen ? This is not Straight, Inc. I feel like I understand you because I?ve seen what can happen in a program, I?ve experienced it firsthand. I?ve experienced the bitterness, but the kindness and care I receive here has outweighed those feelings. I am no longer bitter to Jason Finlinson, and George Tulip, and Lucas Smith. I can live knowing that I will forget Ivy Ridge. I will never forget what Mark and Cheryl did for me. My life is now simple, and everything has fallen into place. I am now confident about my future, and secure about where I am going, in fact, I am enrolled to start college in Chicago this February. Most importantly, my relationship with my parents is getting better every day, and I no longer need drugs to feel high.
Chris G
P.S. I am open to any comments, I just ask that you be open-minded. Not all programs are carbon copies of Straight and WWASP. If you have any questions send me an email or even give me a call here at the mansion. Just ask for Chris.
-
On 2004-11-28 10:44:00, Antigen wrote:
"When I was at Straight, Inc., if my own father had taken me aside privately and asked me if I wanted to leave the program, I would have thought it was a trick and told him no, that I loved it there and never wanted to leave except by graduation. I would have been convincing, too, as the stakes were pretty high.The people's right to change what does not work is one of the greatest
principles in our system of government
--Richard M. Nixon
"
Also, I wanted to address this. Like I said in my last post this is not Straight, Inc. There are no levels or advancements of any kind. There are no stakes. To be completely honest, there is no "getting in trouble" here. When someone does something wrong we all get together and have a group meeting to find out what happened and why. If you want to call that punishment, then so be it.
-
I have a family member that was recently pulled out of the Whitmore. The stories about this place are so mixed, even in our individual instance, and I'm trying to understand them, but here are simply a few things that concern me...
1. In a state of self discovery and desire to grow, the focus is on the SELF, not the leaders of these kids. When all the talk(good or bad) is about Cheryl and Mark, from the kids AND parents, and the focus from the KIDS is how MARK AND CHERYL are doing, Its a red flag to me.
2. My relative who went there suffers from a very real and possibly very dangerous psychological condition. I haven't been able to find anything regarding Mark and Cheryl's crediations/education/qualifications. They were aware of her condition going in and said they had "dealt with it before." An entire group of professional mental health workers are still in debate as to have this disorder treated, yet these people with unknown qualifications can nip it in the bud? That seems a bit iffy to me. Yes, there was a psychologist on staff that has supposedly quit who was working on his dissertation. ONE person for 40 kids???
3. The lack of communication with parents and not passing on emails is absurd. I did have that problem where my communication was not passed on. Look, that seems like it could be a heck of a job, but if you can't do it, DONT offer it.
By and large, I can see that the place is simply unprofessional if nothing else. I have no doubt that a disciplined, rural family and faith driven environment really has worked for certain kids with certain problems, but they really need to be honest about what they can and can't produce and what they can and can't do.
A phone call to the local police office in the area will tell you something. They've been out there every day this past week and arrive to a whole group of kids supposedly in bed by 10 up at 2:30 am to run out and scream at them telling them to get the f%$# off the property. Ok, thats NOT what I would want from my kid. I can appreciate that they are obviously taking some ownership in the place BUT, first, why are they not in bed and second, I would want my kid to show some respect to local law enforcement.
-
For the one talking about the "unruly drunken teen" who got away, I urge you to make a phone call to the local police and hear their side of the story. It won't be easy to hear, but I think you need to know. Our family received a similar story at first and felt just like you did. Digging slightly deeper shed a whole new light on the matter.
-
Ok, I obviously have more to say on this...point being about my last post urging to dig deeper on the latest drunken teen story, a lot of the kids there have issues with lying. What are the owners showing as role models to kids about honesty and accountability?
-
It is true that some psychological problems are too extreme for even the most experienced parents/teachers and psychologists. As a parent, it is good to know that these extreme cases are removed from the Whitmore in order to allow the program to work for the rest of the teens as it is supposed to.
As for the police's efforts to escort concerned parents to retreive their noncompliant children, their assistance is appreciated by distant parents who can't wait for all this to settle down and for light to be shed on the truth.
It is understandable that these teens are passionate and protective of each other. I beleive if left to learn by example, these kids will develop a deeper respect for authority figures...remember, these kids are just learning, judging them does not make us any better.
My thoughts are with your family during this hard time. I hope things get better for this student.
Karen
-
I dont understand why you have to hide behind the anonymous title. Why not say who you are?
I am not hiding who I am...
-chris
-
These things that you guys are saying are stupid. I am aformer student at Whitmore Academy and I know for a fact that it a great place to send your kids. And for the people who have never been to the Whitmore and experinced it first hand, youy have no room to be talking. Yes, there was a teen that did cause some problems, but he has been removed, but before everything happened everybody and chryl and Mark did everything to help him get on the right track. There is nohing wrong going on at this school. People should stop harrassing Cheryl and Mark because they dedicate their lives to kids who need a little guidance. They love the kids like their own, and even though I am no longer there I know they love me just the same. I just encourage you to look at it from another perspective with open eyes.
Jourdan Craggs
-
This is so funny. I guess it's the American way to scructinize, nit pick, dissect, and criticize every single thing on the face of the earth. I was at the Whitmore Academy from Jul 03 to Jul 04 and the place is perfectly fine.
-
I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the fact of this kid's behavior on the few hours before he left the Whitmore Academy. He had spent time at a local boy's house drinking alcoholic beverages, and when he did return, he only acted like he was drunk after someone told him that they thought he was. Then, he exaggerated drunken behavior by falling all over the place. If he truly had been that messed up, he would have been acting like that from the time of his return to the Whitmore (at least 15 minutes before).
------------------
Here's something I believe we should pay some attention to; the boy left without permission, drank alcoholic beverages, and attempted to manipulate by making himself seem wasted (when it was obviously was not true).
------------------
Knowing of this local boy who drank with the kid, we called the police, hoping to find out what we could do about this underage drinking. When the cop arrived, the kid attacked him, swinging and just about going crazy, resulting in the police having to restrain him.
------------------
Okay, there's another thing everyone in the universe seems to have forgotten to include in their accusations and assumptions. The kid in question assulted a police officer, which if you do not know is a very serious thing.
------------------
That night, this same boy left again without permission for the final time by running away. We have not seen him since.
Something else interesting about this, by the way, is that the day before all this went down, this boy wrote us all a letter. In this letter, he described the games he plays with people's heads. It is quite ironic that only a day later, took it upon himself to give us a little display of what he was talking about. He knows what he did. He meant to do it. Yeah, he's messed up, and yeah, he's got his problems. However, there is still no excuse for that, and there is also no excuse for you all to feed into this little monopoly he thinks he?s running. You have your opinions, I have mine. Jourdan has hers, Chris has his, as does the other Chris. Want to believe us? Good, I encourage it. Want to continue to make false accusations? Sucks to be you, but you can think for yourself. It?s not like you?re still in diapers or anything (at least, I hope not).
By the way, for those of you with less common sense, I am currently enrolled in this school, and I like it just fine. If anyone has a problem with that, I am politely asking you to please refrain from assuming, criticizing, accusing, or judging any of us until you know the facts ? all the facts. Since this is very near to impossible unless you know us personally, I?d like to simply suggest the option of leaving us be.
Just a question, but how would you like it if someone came into your house and searched for anything from a piece of mouse poop to a set of boxing gear, or even a video camera used to make home movies? How would you like it if one day, cops came into your home, dragged your siblings to the station and interrogated them about things like abuse and neglect? What if several of your brothers and sisters were taken unwillingly from your home and put into another? How would you feel about that? What would you do ? what could you do ? if suddenly there were a bunch of people talking crap about your family, comparing them to others completely unlike it?
Testify of what you know is true, right? And that is just what we are doing.
Yeah, you?ve been through crap. BFD. Get over it. That was over twenty years ago. There are bad things going on now, but what is sitting at a computer talking about it with other ?victims? going to do but increase your anger towards the situation and people involved not to mention deepen self-pity and possibly depression? Writing articles like you do is a good idea. Writing to congressmen and such is also a good idea. Telling CPS or DCFS on those evil places is also a good idea. However, just make sure you?ve investigated, have firsthand experiences to prove something is up, and know what you?re doing.
I don?t doubt those things about you. I believe that all this crap-talk going down on this forum about the Whitmore is nothing but that; talk. Rumors, gossip, whatever you want to call it? it isn?t truth, and you have no proof it is. We do have the proof, however, that all these bad things being said about us are lies. Two witnesses make a fact, and we have just about twenty times that. You?ve seen a few of us tell you what?s up. Still, it seems you persist with your futile argument of what you so strongly believe is true, yet have never seen a bit of it with your own eyes, nor have any proof or evidence that it is real.
Must I go on? I think you see my point.
However ridiculous this ongoing, chaotic debate has been, you do put up a good argument with some things. There are good excuses behind your assumptions and insults on some things. It doesn?t fly, though. We?re a good place, no matter who believes us on that. I know it in my heart, and if you look in yours no matter how broken it may be, you too will see this.
Sorry, but the horrible things said about the Whitmore Academy are wrong. I?d know. I live there.
Peace. ::rainbow::
Caitlyn Loggins
-
Hitler thought his intentions were 'good' too.
Survivor stories are 'good'. They inform the public and they can be very cathartic for the victims... quiet contrary to your assumption that telling stories creates depression. 'Anger toward the situation' could also be just what the dr ordered !! You make some pretty wild assumptions in your attempt to silence the opposition.
-
On 2004-12-01 12:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Hitler thought his intentions were 'good' too.
Exactly. And so did good ol'e "Uncle" Joe Stalin. And so, I'm thoroughly convinced, did Art Barker and his merry band of cultic followers. And so do all of these people who run these programs.
Think about it. If they were only in it for the money, they could leave out all the mind bending and just, litterally, warehouse the kids and feed them bon bons while bilking the parents for big bucks.
But there's something else going on here. It might well be just as benign and even helpful as some participants say. But then again, there are some aspects of the program that raise some red flags. What's the story w/ the Canadian property and the animals? Who was it that talked about kids getting in trouble for showing kindness toward the animals? Any coroboration there? And what's with the daily reports written by students about other students? What's with the subliminals?
I asked a Whitmore proponant a couple of these questions before and I have never gotten any answers. Any of you care to respond to them now?
The most important question, though--the one I really would like for you to respond to--is this:
How does the program work? By what process or method do Mark and Cheryl convert unrully, troubled, "bad" kids into entheusiastically cooperative, positive influence type kids?
I'm not asking if the program has this effect or not. You've already said that it does. I want to know how that happens and if you understand how it happens.
I am married, not Buried !
-- Steve Webb
-
I agree with the most recent post. Those of us questioning the validity of certain aspects of the Whitmore are not, as you may say, sitting around looking for something to complaing and nitpick about. We are concerned about some red flags that have been raised regarding HOW the work is being done.
Look, based on what I've heard and dealt with regarding my sisters experience there, there are a lot of mixed messages. On the one hand, I can see that Mark and Cheryl do seem to have a heart for these kids and obviously there is a real sense of family about the place.
But self growth and self discovery also tend to include an aspect of critical thinking. Is that being taught? Those supporters of the program seem to accept it without question.
Also, if there are kids there with REAL psychological conditions, there should be someone there with REAL mental heath certification, education AND experience helping them. If the place only wants to take on teens that need a straight path, got caught up in the wrong crowd/wrong thing, maybe they are fully capable of that, but are they capable of dealing with a real disorder? I'm starting to wonder.
I also wonder why all of the support here comes from the students. Why aren't staff members talking or even more parents? I asked a mundane question recently to the "inquiry" link on the website only to get a very suspicious reply from a student. That again raises a flag for me regarding professionalism.
Please, don't take our critiques as any more than just that. I beleive that many of us on this site are truely concerned about making sure that our kids and families who find a need for such services are aware of the pros and cons of each place. We care about them and want the best for them. There is nothing at all wrong about that. Fortunately in this society we have the right to investigate and look at every aspect of the places that take care of our own. Its an important thing to do and a sign of just how much we love them. Thats not a bad thing. Its coming from the same place where students who feel the place is being attacked are coming from. A place of love, not fear and hate.
-
The problem is that in my sisters case they did NOT remove her from the program. They accepted her and acted as if they would be able to help her. I appreciate the desire to help, but if you don't have the training, please don't offer. I felt it was very unprofessional and unrealistic of them.
-
Jourdan, I urge the same of you. We are not stupid, we are very concerned people who love our own.
-
Here are some answers to your questions.
What's the story w/ the Canadian property and the animals?
---
That was a complete injustice that occured many years ago. The Canadian government is completely screwed up. They might as well be communists. It was as Eric said; everyone who was supposed to be caring for them thought someone else was. This was a horrible case of miscommunication.
Who was it that talked about kids getting in trouble for showing kindness toward the animals? Any coroboration there?
---
I don't know what you're talking about right there. Tell me what you mean, and I will answer your questions about it.
And what's with the daily reports written by students about other students?
---
This teaches the kids responsibility because they have to follow through with their specific job each week. They write a report each Sunday on their responsibility and send it in to be posted on the website for parents to read. A good example is the reading intern. This person makes sure no one talks during our reading time each morning, and also reads over book reports at the end of the week to make sure they meet standard qualifications like five paragraphs, at least five sentences per paragraph, etc. This does a lot because they learn to make sure responsibilities are filled; both theirs and that of the group. Life skills are taught by this because some time in life, most people have at least one job where they are over other employees, and they must know how to be a leader. So this is for responsibility and leadership skills.
What's with the subliminals?
---
Subliminals are positive affirmation tapes we listen to each morning by Karol Truman. These tapes include things like, "I choose to be happy. I feel happy. I am happy." It improves our attitude throughout the day, but doesn't 'make' us be that way. The choice at the beginning links together the thoughts and the feelings. It is not brainwashing, and we aren't forced to listen to them.
I asked a Whitmore proponant a couple of these questions before and I have never gotten any answers. Any of you care to respond to them now?
---
If I had seen your questions prior to this posting, I would have answered them right then and there.
How does the program work?
---
It is a family environment here. Everyone who comes to the Whitmore has family-related issues, so this helps to deal with things like that. We learn to work together as a family, and we respect Cheryl and Mark as our parents. This also develops unconditional love and acceptance for one another, which is desperately needed in a family environment. We love and respect each other here just like any other family.
By what process or method do Mark and Cheryl convert unrully, troubled, "bad" kids into entheusiastically cooperative, positive influence type kids?
---
Well, we don't have any punishments for one thing. We only have rewards. Some of our rewards are going on trips, to the movies, or out to eat. We learn responsibility and leadership through jobs as intern, prefect, or monitor. If someone has a problem, we have a meeting on it and everyone offers their input. When kids come here, they want to listen and they want to try because of all the love. Like I said before, we love each other unconditionally. That can't be stopped. We help out each other with everything we can because we care.
I'm not asking if the program has this effect or not. You've already said that it does. I want to know how that happens and if you understand how it happens.
---
I do understand. It happened to me.
If these answers are not what you were looking for, tell me and I will elaborate on the ones in question.
-
Anonymous, here are the answers to your questions, as well.
Look, based on what I've heard and dealt with regarding my sisters experience there, there are a lot of mixed messages. On the one hand, I can see that Mark and Cheryl do seem to have a heart for these kids and obviously there is a real sense of family about the place.
---
What is your sister's name? Chances are, I know her, and could reply to you more accurately if I know who the girl is you are talking about.
But self growth and self discovery also tend to include an aspect of critical thinking. Is that being taught? Those supporters of the program seem to accept it without question.
---
Are you asking if critical thinking is being taught? I don't quite understand your question, but yes, we do both teach and practice critical thinking here.
Also, if there are kids there with REAL psychological conditions, there should be someone there with REAL mental heath certification, education AND experience helping them. If the place only wants to take on teens that need a straight path, got caught up in the wrong crowd/wrong thing, maybe they are fully capable of that, but are they capable of dealing with a real disorder? I'm starting to wonder.
---
We do have therapists here. It is true that one does not work here anymore, but he was immediantly replaced and things remain this way. It is my belief (I am not representing the Whitmore Academy in this) that a lot of 'disorders' come from kids being kids, and psychologists/therapists/doctors wanting to make something out of it (like a bunch of money). Look at that woman in Texas who drowned her five kids in the bathtub a few years ago, for example. Her doctor prescribed her some crazy medication she didn't need, and look what ended up happening. Also, when someone is told they have a condition, they begin to act a lot more like this accusation is true. This is why we have disorders most of the time. However, I also believe there are some who do have disorders, and yes, I also believe that we are capable of dealing with them. We have before, several times.
I also wonder why all of the support here comes from the students. Why aren't staff members talking or even more parents?
---
The staff are busy dealing with other things. They really don't have the time for something like this right now. A lot of parents don't know about this forum, and I'm not going to be the one to spread the word. We don't want to bother them with something like this, anyway.
I asked a mundane question recently to the "inquiry" link on the website only to get a very suspicious reply from a student. That again raises a flag for me regarding professionalism.
---
Please further explain this to me. What question did you ask, and what did the reply say? How was it suspicious, and how do you know it was a student?
-
On 2004-12-01 18:29:00, caitlynloggins wrote:
A lot of parents don't know about this forum, and I'm not going to be the one to spread the word. We don't want to bother them with something like this, anyway.
Nah, wouldn't want to bother them with anything like legitimate questions that people raise about the manner in which their children are being "treated". :roll: Better to treat them like the proverbial mushroom and keep them in the dark and feed them a bunch of shit.
-
So how does this unconditional love for relative strangers come about? There's something missing here. You take a bunch of rebellious, self destructive kids--some brought there by paid 'escorts', obviously against their will--and.... what? What exactly happens to make them all love each other unconditionally and cooperate w/ this program?
And how do these bad kids become qualified to supervise other kids? Is it something in the water? Cause it just doesn't add up the way you're describing it.You say there is but one way to worship the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it?
--Chief Red Jacket, Seneca Indian Chieftain
-
On 2004-12-01 20:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
Nah, wouldn't want to bother them with anything like legitimate questions that people raise about the manner in which their children are being "treated". :roll: Better to treat them like the proverbial mushroom and keep them in the dark and feed them a bunch of shit. "
Actually, I don't believe they should have to deal with unneccesary worry and stress. They know their children are safe here. For that to be questioned as it is on this forum, it would cause them to be stressed and worried over untruths.
-
"So how does this unconditional love for relative strangers come about? There's something missing here. You take a bunch of rebellious, self destructive kids--some brought there by paid 'escorts', obviously against their will--and.... what? What exactly happens to make them all love each other unconditionally and cooperate w/ this program?
When kids first arrive, we love them because we see how they really can be; we can see their potential to be awesome people. It is at first unconditional acceptance for their true self, and they begin to want to work with us because of this. In teamwork, we understand each other a lot better and from this understanding comes love. If you adopted a kid, would you love him or her right off from the start, even if they didn't want to go with you?
By the way, less than half of the kids here were brought by escorts. Most came with their families, and some even by themselves.
And how do these bad kids become qualified to supervise other kids? Is it something in the water?
First off, please understand that there aren't any bad kids. There are only good kids who have made some bad choices. When someone becomes more responsible, accountable, etc., through fulfilling normal responsibilities like book reports, daily journal, etc., this person can have an intern or prefect job to kind of test them and through tests like that, they learn more.
Cause it just doesn't add up the way you're describing it.
I don't expect you to understand fully. It isn't something one really can't understand from words; it is more something one must experience firsthand to really 'get.'[ This Message was edited by: caitlynloggins on 2004-12-02 05:26 ]
-
Actually, I don't believe they should have to deal with unneccesary worry and stress. They know their children are safe here. For that to be questioned as it is on this forum, it would cause them to be stressed and worried over untruths."
It's for you to decide what they should and shouldn't hear???? Fucking AMAZING. If my kid was in one of those and there were people out there raising some serious questions about the manner in which these kids are being treated, I would want to hear EVERY opinion and then base my decision my own powers of observation and deduction. They're only getting one side of the story. They're hearing how wonderful it is but they're hearing that from PROGRAM PEOPLE. What is everyone so afraid of????
-
On 2004-12-02 05:25:00, caitlynloggins wrote:
First off, please understand that there aren't any bad kids. There are only good kids who have made some bad choices.
Believe me, she knows that.
I don't expect you to understand fully. It isn't something one really can't understand from words; it is more something one must experience firsthand to really 'get.
I think those of us who have been through this type of "treatment" "get it" sweetie. :roll: Once again the program people have something mystical and spiritual that we poor souls just can't understand. :roll: :roll:
-
When kids first arrive, we love them because we see how they really can be; we can see their potential to be awesome people. It is at first unconditional acceptance for their true self, and they begin to want to work with us because of this. In teamwork, we understand each other a lot better and from this understanding comes love. If you adopted a kid, would you love him or her right off from the start, even if they didn't want to go with you?
So you just "love" them. Gee, that explains EVERYTHING. How do you convince a child, who may not be all trusting of his/her parents and of adults/authority figures in general, that you "love" them? What do you do to get them to comply? You say that you just "love" them-- but that really doesn't mean much. What do you DO, exactly? You're avoiding the question.
By the way, less than half of the kids here were brought by escorts. Most came with their families, and some even by themselves.
It could be that some children were brought by their families, but I don't believe you that "less than half" of them have been kidnapped. It just doesn't sound believeable, especially coming from a program person.
First off, please understand that there aren't any bad kids. There are only good kids who have made some bad choices.
:roll: why is it that all program people use the same damn line?
When someone becomes more responsible, accountable, etc., through fulfilling normal responsibilities like book reports, daily journal, etc., this person can have an intern or prefect job to kind of test them and through tests like that, they learn more.
Could be. But do they learn enough to be able to handle the responsibility of supervising over other children? Another thing I find very hard to believe.
I don't expect you to understand fully. It isn't something one really can't understand from words; it is more something one must experience firsthand to really 'get.'
Oh, I get it all right. You offer some great spiritual change, taht only your Holy Program can provide, and no one can criticize the Holy Program, because we morons just can't "get it".
I've got news for you. We've all heard it before. We know who you are, we know what you're offering, and we know what you're doing to these children. And we will, eventually, shut you down. No matter how many excuses you make, no matter how much "love" babble you spew, no matter how many times you say that The Holy Program is a spiritual experience that we just "can't get".
I've heard enough of this shit to recognize it right away. You're not fooling anyone.
-
News item on Whitmore:
Troubled Teen Home Investigated for Abuse
Nov. 30, 2004
Samantha Hayes Reporting
It's often a last resort for some parents. But a facility for
troubled teens is under investigation tonight after strong
allegations from one boy.
Carol Sisco, Child and Family Services: "Our licensing office
notified them that we intend to revoke their license."
The state's decision to pull the license follows a teenage boy's
claims he was verbally and physically abused. KSL talked with many
of the same children interviewed by child and family services in
their investigation, children who have come from all over the
country to get help.
Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks own and operate the boarding school for 27
teenagers and a separate residential treatment facility for 12 boys.
Mark Sudweeks, Owner Whitmore Academy: "It's not working at home and
we feel we have a solution that can help kids turn their lives
around."
A teenage boy who was in the therapy group accused Whitmore Academy
of abuse.
Carol Sisco: "Allegations are of verbal abuse, physical abuse, lack
of supervision, bad sanitation, sub-standard food."
Victoria Degarmo, Counselor: "There is no verbal abuse. What goes on
here is nothing that doesn't go on in a family home."
The state and local police interviewed the teenagers in both
programs to find out if the accusations were true.
Carol Sisco: "We are still looking at it and we have the health
department looking at it too."
But the treatment facility's license is already being revoked.
Chris Gentile, Enrolled at Whitmore Academy: "One of the things I
love about this place is that I used to have the worst relationship
with my parents and now I feel like I can tell them anything."
Hannah Ruisi, Enrolled at Whitmore Academy: "They helped me believe
in myself and discover who I was."
The boarding school is not regulated by the state, and children in
that program live in Whitmore Mansion. But Sudweeks says they
interact with those in the treatment facility; that is another
concern for state investigators. The teenage boy who made the
allegations was pulled our of Whitmore Academy.
During the investigation, three others were removed by their
parents.
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
--Frank Lloyd Wright, American architect
-
Ok, so there are three kids who were pulled after this investigation? What's up w/ that?
We need cops.
We can't live without 'em.
But they need to start working for us....
That's no longer an option.
They've pushed it.
They've gone to far.
They've just gone to far.
Tom Crosslin
-
Those were obviously either disgruntled druggies or they just aren't capable of "getting it". Don't you understand that by now? :roll:
-
What? But, I thought the love was unconditional???
Truth in matters of religion is simply the opinion that has survived.
--Oscar Wilde
-
Hi,
first of all... in regards to anonymous not believing that over half of the kids here werent transported..
I myself came alone straight from a WWASP program. I was dropped off at the airport with a trash bag and a ticket to Utah. My mom had them give me a note telling me what was going on, and I trusted her. I flew from Syrracuse to Chicago, and to be honest I almost didn't get on the plane. After speaking to my mom from the airport in Chicago I decided that I needed to get on the plane and give it a chance. Sometimes kids can realize how important their decisions are. Lots are here to recieve the help they want. Thats why things are different around here.
In fact, the kid who started this whole thing came with his Grand Ma and his parents if I remember correctly. All of our most recent kids came with their parents.
In regards to the 3 kids who left. They did not leave by their own will. They wanted to stay, one girl in particular ran from her mother (whom has been subject to child abuse claims 3 times) Her mother drug her out by her hair and told her: "they dont care about you!"
Talk about free will.
Chris
-
To be more specific... the last 4 kids to enter all came with their parents.
I'm sorry, but this is not WWASP. Thre is no OP or isolation rooms or intervention/worksheets.
-
my friend carl, whom i was at ivy ridge with, asked me to post this message for those who are interested.
-----
My name is Carl Milliken and I am writing this to let you know what the Whitmore Academy is really like. In these past few weeks many people have been making many false accusations about us. I have been here in Utah with Mark and Cheryl for these past six months. In these six months I have not seen any cases of child abuse. Nobody here has been treated in anyway that would harmed the students in anyway. Not physically or emotionally. As a student here we have nothing but love for each other. For all of the parents that are posting or feeling anything negative about the Whitmore Academy I really wish that you guys would get your facts strait. You guys are only hearing what you want. Why don?t you listen to the 40 kids here that have nothing but the truth to say about this place? The accusations here about the child abuse are completely untrue. This all started because of a kid who acted like a complete idiot had the cops called on him. When the cops came he swung at them. Did you know that? And then the next night he runs to the cops claiming child abuse. Did you know that this kid?s father as well as mother is supporting us because he knows how his son is. Since then yes a few of the kids have been taken home by their parents. One of those kids parents want her back because they know what this place is about. Mark and Cheryl would also want her back. The state won?t allow it. The other two kids fought to stay here. One particular girl who was only 12 ran back into the house before getting drug out by her mother. The girl let us know in a group that we had to try to guide her and help her through her problems that her mother did abuse her. I really believe that her mother was so scared that she was letting the truth out, that she had to get her daughter out to make us look like the ?bad guys?. Her mother really does not know what she is talking about. I was a former student at a WWASP program, and I seen what abuse is. I did not talk to my parents for the 6 months that I was there. I did not get medical treatment that I needed. I still have a rash on my arm because they ignored my need there. I watched the kids there get restrained. I have seen the scars on the boys there. I watched several kids there abused physically as well as emotionally. I have been verbally abused as well as physically abused at Ivy Ridge myself. Though I was never restrained, I was not taken to the bathroom for long periods of time, when I was in intervention. As a result I had to grab 2 water bottles and pee in them in front of whoever cared to look in. I know what abuse is. I watched personally another student here at the Whitmore named Chris get abused physically while he was at Ivy Ridge with me. When I wrote letters to my parents about what happened they never got them. If you guys are so worried about kids at programs who are getting abused in any way why don?t you check out WWASP? Is this world so focused on people not succeeding that when they do, they want to bring them down? Is it hard for people to realize that there is actually a place that works? Does it bother you guys to know that these people who have given there lives to help children for the last 30 years are actually helping us. That there own personal kids have given up there childhood so that there parents could help other kids who need it. Why is the state involved here, when there is a WWASP program in the same state where I know kids are really being abused. I know they are, and I am saying it now. I am saying the same stuff that the kid who ran to the cops said about us about another place. Why are they not doing anything about my claims. Is it because the State building is located within walking distance to us, or because there is no magnetic doors to walk through. I really think that you guys should be in support of a place that is actually helping kids. If you are really that worried about kids you will do something about the WWASP programs. I know this place has changed my life for the positive. Why are you not listening to us who know what is going on. I am not assuming anything. These are the facts. I encourage you guys to get the facts before posting lies. This is all I have to say for now. I will continue to post more as the lies happen. Thank you for all of you guys who know the truth and are continuing to support us here at the Whitmore. We are thankful for you and hope that you will continue to stick with us as we go through this trial.
Carl Milliken
-
I don't think anyone's said that Whitmore is worse than, or even as bad as, WWASP. In fact, it sounds to me a whole lot like The Seed. Many former Seed group members have come away w/ little or no damage from all that, though some have been harmed profoundly.
I have to wonder about the other side of the story about the girl who refused to leave w/ her mother. I know a few people who The Seed (Art, Shelly and Libby) turned against their own families temporarily or permanently.
They didn't do it by way of violent physical punishment, but by emotional and psychological manipulation.
As for the kid who slugged the cop, I almost did that once too. Turned out I didn't have to. But I had left Straight and hitchhiked to my brother's house in Georgia. A few nights later, my mother showed up, uninvited, in the middle of the night at my bedside w/ a couple of other program parents. Essentially, they tried to kidnap me. So my brother called the cops. Turned out that, in Georgia, 17 is the default age of emancipation so he wasn't going to make me go w/ my mother and her 'friends'. But I was fully prepared to slug the nice officer w/ all my might in order to draw assault charges and force him to arrest me had he called it the other way.
I wasn't routinely physically abused at Straight, either. In fact, I had a very hard time for a number of years even articulating just what was so bad about the whole thing. It was all psyche/emotional stuff that any kid would have a hard time understanding or describing.
When he [Califano] claims that the voters of Arizona and California did not know what they were voting for when they supported the two initiatives, he reminds me of the way Serbia's President Slobodan Milosevic reacted to recent election results in that country.
-- George Soros -- Sunday, February 2 1997; Page C01 The Washington Post
-
As for the story regarding the 12 year old girl who was drug out by her mother, there is another side to that story as well. She has diagnosed RAD and has been prone to lying especially regarding abuse charges(the reason she went to the Whitmore in the first place!) and each of the charges mentioned have been cleared as FALSE CLAIMS. I'm afriad that these kids are getting as much misinformation as they think we are.
-
Thanks Mrs. Harris for your input. I'm glad to see that you are learning self control.
Is this a bipolar moment?
thanks!
Chris
-
wow. I hope you kids get the truth someday and find peace. I really do.
-
In regards to your last statement about finding peace, I don't think any of you understand what you are saying. Everyone who has something bad to say does not know what they are talking about, I have lived here for over a year and I CHOSE to stay here longer because I love these people. Look inside yourself for the answers rather than listening to come rampaging woman from Texas who doesn't know a thing about what she is saying. Why don't you realize that people out there in the WWASP programs are being killed and beaten and they can't say anything and people still send their children there. To know about the Whitmore and what we are about you have to experience for yourself, and I am sorry Mrs. Harris the only part that you experienced was coming here and taking your daughter away against her will and the only reason why she went with you was because she was scared, I hope that your daughter get's justice for what she has had to go through while living with you. Why don't you believe it when it is coming from the horse's mouth but you have to believe the police and the state who have no idea what they are talking about. You are ruining people's lives, we all love it here and if we didn't then we wouldn't be here. Think about what you are doing while writting these harmful things on the internet.
:silly: [ This Message was edited by: HannahRuisi on 2004-12-02 14:33 ]
-
This message is for Antigen. I have spoken to Cheryl in regards to your concerns. She asked me to personally invite you to come out to Utah. She is willing to give you complete access for as long as you'd like. Give me a call if you're interested. 1(435)623-2047 ask for chris!
Personally, I'd like to ask you if WWASP, or any other program for that matter, would even let you inside...She'll let you come in and check things out on your own and talk to anyone here one on one. I guess in a way, I am personally challenging you to do so. Shelby at ISAC is also invited. We're hoping for her support in this matter. I have corresponded with her in the past in regards to my ivy ridge experiences. Please don't just blow this off. I think this is a great opportunity for the doubtful to see what WA is really about. Can you imagine, for just a second, that what we're saying is true? There are people that DO need this type of help, and I can honestly say that most programs (almost all) are uneffective. Imagine if this is the one that can help those in a respectful and caring matter. Please be open to this and let me know.
- chris
-
I remain anymous for my own personal reasons and its not Ms. Harris. Sorry to disappoint. An ISP search will prove.
-
On 2004-12-02 14:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I remain anymous for my own personal reasons and its not Ms. Harris. Sorry to disappoint. An ISP search will prove."
I am a parent of a Whitmore child. I've commented before and have had the courtesy to sign my name. I don't know who Ms. Harris is but I can tell you that it would be much more helpful to everyone if these posts were not anonymous. Unless these comments are supported by a confident author willing to divulge their identity, I will have to assume the information unreliable and make the decision to no longer waste my time with these useless postings. It is great to see the open and honest comments by some of the students. Kudos to you! By the way, thank you for your warm welcome last weekend when I came to visit. I very much enjoyed getting to know some of you better. You should be proud of your work there at the Whitmore. We should all agree not to visit this site for it only breeds negativity which is an epidemic in our modern society. Keep on doing what you're doing. It's obviously working. As my son would say,
Peace Out,
Karen
-
Karen-
Ms. Harris is one of the parents who withdrew her daughter from the program. You know, the same woman who threw her daughter down the stairs when she took her. The same woman who is spiteful because her daughter isn't afraid of us like she is of her. The same woman who adopts a very young, innocent girl from a foreign country just for how kind it makes her seem.
Ms. Harris (I know you're around here somewhere)-
This is coming from me personally, by the way. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself, so don't try getting my friends into this, Ms. Harris. I've read your crap and what you're saying you can't prove. If you made your daughter say a single thing, it's because she's too afraid you'll beat the crap out of her if she doesn't. I know what it's like to be abused by a parent, so don't try pulling anything funny. You piss me off; I can't stand liars or child abusers, and you're both, probably more.
Everyone-
Once again, everything I say is coming from me personally and only me. If others want to post and agree, so be it, I encourage it.
-
Chrisgentile, I doubt I'll have the chance to travel anytime soon. And, if I do want to go for a weekend long sales pitch somewhere, there had better be a hot tub and a wet bar for my trouble.
But you're really telling me all I need to know. The simple statement that there are two sides to this story has brought out the attack animal in you. BTW, if Ms. Harris is reading, don't take this too seriously. Most of us have been on the receiving end of this kind of dead agenting effort before. Just hunker and watch. It only works if they can control the dialog. It has ever been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues
--Abraham Lincoln
-
many of you people posting topics have never even been to the whitmore. I was at the whitmore for 10 and a half months and nothing bad ever happened to the kids. regretfully many times i broke the rules but nothing bad ever happened to me. mark and cheryl gave me chance after chance. some other kids and myself ruined the cruise they took us on but they still forgave us. anyone who knows them can see that their nice people. people just gotta stop being idiots and making things up.
-Tim
-
Do not send your child there....They are currently under investigation for serious child abuse!!!!!!
-
Read the article "Who am I discovery and Chilanko Lodge"....the Sudweeks ALSO abuse helpless animals, not only children
-
Another way to control the kids mind, what do you think it is?
-
Staff:
Shayla is the Sudweeks daughter and she lives in Logan....she does not teach there!
Darlene is the Sudweeks daughter and she does not teach there!
The therapist Tim resigned and is not there.
The photos on the staff sheet are meaningless.
There are no teachers!!!!
Any students EVER seen the night person JOHN?
-
T
-
This young man is being HONEST! He needs to call and tell his story to the police and social workers TODAY!
-
You tell the TRUTH and your anger is totally justified. Call the authorities NOW and help them close this place NOW. It is not too late to tell your story to someone who will listen to your story of abuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
This kids at Whitmore can't write what they want to write, they are told what the fuck to write and I know it cause I was there!
If you run away they beat the shit out of you.
Ask Hannah. She knows, she knows!
-
You need to talk with more people. Ask your son about the "bunk room" Ask your son more questions. ASK QUESTIONS!!!!!
-
There is NO STRUCTURE at Whitmore. Cheryl Sudweeks leads the GROUP SESSIONS, many that she starts at all hours of the night...some go on as late as 3AM. Cheryl Sudweeks is NOT a therapist, she does not even have a college degree. Tim Lowe, the therapist left in Nov. A new therapist David was let go by Cheryl Sudweeks. ONE therapist could never meet the needs of 40 kids. These group sessions would mostly target ONE KID to humiliate that one kid.
These kids were sleep deprived daily.
These kids spend most of their day doing chores, and being punished if they do not do them properly. THIS IS A SHAME.
-
EXCUSE ME: When you have KIDS WATCHING KIDS and KIDS REPORTING ON KIDS and worst of all----KIDS PUNISHING KIDS......you have a great big problem. I MEAN A GREAT BIG PROBLEM!!!!!!!
-
Why Did Mary Sudweeks plead guilty to animal cruelty in Canada if it was just a "Mis communication issue?" COME ON PEOPLE!!!!!!
-
Well I Know a few of the kids there. They seem to be happy. I think its doing good for them. I hope if you have trouble with a child you would consider it.
Write me and let me know what you think.
Rach.
-
These kids are forced to administer punishment on each other. They are AFRAID to tell this to the authorities. Of course they are afraid. They need to tell their parents what is going on. If they refuse to administer the punishment, the others are forced to TURN ON THEM.
Parents---get out of denial!!!
Talk to your kids who are there.
Why are your kids on this site now....why aren't they in school?
Those who are the "PUNISHERS" are at as much risk, psychologically as the ones being injured.
-
That is an OUT RIGHT LIE...not one of the 4 kid withdrawn from Whitmore had a history of drug abuse. That is an OUTRIGHT LIE.
They were withdrawn to remove them from a place that was being investigated for CHILD ABUSE.
It is that simple, PEOPLE.
-
Whoa there, looks like someone is into assumptions... I hate assumptions. Assume = make an a** of u and me.
Don't try to say it like you know it if you really don't. :roll:
There is NO STRUCTURE at Whitmore.
Actually, we have a full schedule that goes from 4:30 in the morning all the way to bedtime. Everyone follows it with exceptions of group trips to town and our travel study. It's on the website if you don't believe me, and it's been there for quite some time. Go look at it. Right now. I dare you.
Cheryl Sudweeks leads the GROUP SESSIONS, many that she starts at all hours of the night...some go on as late as 3AM.
What's wrong with Cheryl leading group? I think she does a great job of it, actually.
All hours of the night? If you consider 7:00 or 8:00 'all hours,' then yeah, sure. Believe me, she loves sleep just as much as anyone else, and she is always at group, awake, the whole time that we are.
About the 3am thing, group ends around midnight at the very latest. I've seen a few go later than that, yes; a few. No more than that. If it goes too late, we sleep later the next morning and we just bump schedule up to fit that time.
Cheryl Sudweeks is NOT a therapist, she does not even have a college degree.
Like I said before, don't talk unless you know the facts. Cheryl graduated from Brigham Young University (BYU) of Utah. And why does she need to be a therapist in the first place? Albert Einstein failed math, but still turned out a genius. Someone doesn't need to have a degree or official education in an area to be completely awesome at it. She doesn't even conduct therapy, anyway. Our therapist does.
Tim Lowe, the therapist left in Nov. A new therapist David was let go by Cheryl Sudweeks. ONE therapist could never meet the needs of 40 kids.
You're right, those people do not work here anymore. However, something you obviously do not know is that we do have a therapist, and he does work here, and he does do a wonderful job.
These group sessions would mostly target ONE KID to humiliate that one kid.
We do focus on the issues of individual kids at times, but we by no means humiliate them. We confront them on what the problem is, discuss what could be causing it, and figure out how we can solve it. We do this by means of talking; that is, not cussing, yelling, screaming, or violence of any kind.
These kids were sleep deprived daily.
Sleep deprived? We get up early to get an early start on our day and for the self-discipline we learn from it. Bedtime is 10:00pm. I don't see what you're talking about right here, because that is plenty sleep for anyone.
These kids spend most of their day doing chores, and being punished if they do not do them properly.
We spend 15 minutes cleaning our rooms each morning, and then 30 to 45 minutes doing our chores. Is this all day to you? You must sleep a lot or something.
THIS IS A SHAME.
You're right, it is a shame. It's quite a shame that people assume so much without knowing the facts first. It's a shame that some people really do abuse their kids but have to accuse others of bs when they are obviously innocent (I'm talking about the people who do know us and have been here before).
It's also quite a shame that "Anonymous" was the only name I saw on this page, and it was almost full.
Yes, it really is a shame. :roll:
-
Personally, I am on this site because I have graduated high school. I'm done with school and have been accepted to college for spring semester starting in the first week of february. I have no reason to lie nor a reason to be afraid. I am going home for 3 weeks soon and then I'm coming back for one more month just to kind of say goodbye to everyone. I am particularly shocked at how immature anonymous is, all of them.. haha. The "former student" is acting like a 2 year old. I have no clue who you are, or what your problem is. I do, however, know Chris Corkalo, and Tim, and Jourdan. The students who HAVE experienced Whitmore, and know what they're talking about. FOR THE RECORD, Jourdan is one of the 3 kids you guys keep talking about. She is now permanantly at home, and only has nice things to say... I wonder why.
chris
-
This is an OUTRIGHT LIE....none of the 4 kids had a history of drug abuse.
The parents removed these kids because of the issue of CHILD ABUSE!!!!
-
On 2004-12-03 09:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That is an OUT RIGHT LIE...not one of the 4 kid withdrawn from Whitmore had a history of drug abuse. That is an OUTRIGHT LIE.
They were withdrawn to remove them from a place that was being investigated for CHILD ABUSE.
It is that simple, PEOPLE.
"
Yeah, since you know them personally and everything. :roll:
It's seems quite amusing that you keep bringing up child abuse, or CHILD ABUSE, when you've been accused of it three times. Am I right? We saw you abuse your daughter. We have so many witnesses. What (false) witnesses do you have, huh? I'd love to count them. Usually, there is much strength in numbers in case you didn't know.
Some people are such idiots.
Oh, excuse me... I meant PEOPLE. :lol:
-
This is an OUTRIGHT LIE....none of the 4 kids had a history of drug abuse.
The parents removed these kids because of the issue of CHILD ABUSE!!!!
Actually, two of them had a history of drug abuse; one of them a very serious one. I was good friends with most of those kids.
You know what, Harris? I don't at all doubt that you just got done abusing your child. I think I'll just leave this post at that.
I can't stand child abusers. :flame:
-
On 2004-12-03 07:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Do not send your child there....They are currently
under investigation for serious child abuse!!!!!!"
I would like to see where there is proof of "serious"
child abuse. One child was removed from the program
and claims he was abused. No abuse goes on in this
house at all
On 2004-12-03 08:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Read the article "Who am I discovery and Chilanko
Lodge"....the Sudweeks ALSO abuse helpless animals,
not only children"
On that note, I would like to say that the Sudweeks
have nothing to do with the animal abuse. There is a
man who takes care of the animals at Chilanko Lodge
who did not take care of them. How can you point that
to Mark and Cheryl?
Honestly, if you believe that we get abused here, then
come out here for yourselves and check it out. Our
door is always open so please stop by and talk to some
of us. We aren't told what to say, you can even come
with a police officer and talk to us one on one if
that makes you more conferrable. We don?t lie here; we
are not abused is any way at all. We eat plenty, if
not too much, food, sleep more than enough, and we
don?t fight with each other. We love each other too
much here to fight. The one bad apple in the group,
who is a known liar (from his parents), is no longer
here. So like Tim said, if you haven?t been out here
to see what really happens, then don?t bother posting
here with your useless opinions.
On 2004-12-02 14:30:00, HannahRuisi wrote:
"You are ruining people's lives, we all love it here
and if we didn't then we wouldn't be here. Think about
what you are doing while writing these harmful things
on the internet."
Like I said the door is always open, this isn't a
lockdown facility we are able to walk out of the door
whenever we feel pleased in doing so.
On 2004-12-02 14:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"wow. I hope you kids get the truth someday and find
peace. I really do."
I hope you sir/madam find the truth someday because
you have no idea what you are talking about here
because have you been out here? Probably not and more
than likely don't know what you are talking about so
please, be quiet.
Also Antigen, we have a nice hot tub you can come hang
out in and talk to some of us, or if you wish, spend
some alone time to think about what you've been saying
about our program. Let me quote something that the
"Nephi Times" has said
"The teens in the Utah program, at the Whitmore
Academy, have the benefit of the home, with 12
beautiful rooms, a swimming pool and Jacuzzi. In
addition, they can enjoy the majestic mountains and
the nearby beauty of Little Sahara Sand Dunes, Lake
Powell, Canyon Lands National Parks, Zions Park and
many other natural wonders."
I would like to thank all of the parents and former
students who have been here and our supporting us,
your voices count more than those who are hiding
behind a computer screen, or in Ms. Harris matter came
here for thirty minutes to take her child at 3 in the
morning, so of course she wouldnt know anything,
everyone was sleeping in there rooms. But according to
her everyone was up which makes no sense because if
they were then how were they AWAKEN by your loud
mouth?
Now, let me tell you something that I feel neccasry directed towards Ms. Harris. Joyce has been accused three times for Child Abuse and has even been proven once that she has. She also lost her job over this, she was a former middle school teacher and when the superintendent found out about these accusations, she was fired immeadeatly. The night that she came to get her daughter, her daughter was physically abused, and everyone who was awake (thanks to her) witnessed it, she grabbed her arm, tossed her around, and when they were leaving she tossed her down the stairs FACE FIRST! Then when the girl tries to come back to us for help her Joyce tells her that if she doesnt get in the car, she is sending her to jail. Who would send their own kid to jail for not getting in a car? I will tell you who, someone who does not care about there kid. Her daughter told us when she got her "Dad does the spankings, and Mom does the beatings" When the young girl finally gets in the car, Joyce slams the door, almost breaking the girls fingers, would she have cared if this happen? Proberbly not.
Also, one more thing to the person that posted about "Mary Sudweeks" there in no such person int he Sudweek family that has the name "Mary" at least not this Sudweek family.
-Mackey
P.S. Remember to any of you who want to come out here check out http://www.whitmoreacademy.com (http://www.whitmoreacademy.com) and look at the contact information. The doors always open, and there is nothing here to prove. Just stop by at some random time. If we are not there, we might be on a trip, but you will be able to contact us. Thanks!
-
On 2004-12-03 09:53:00, caitlynloggins wrote:
Assume = make an a** of u and me.
I'm sorry, but when you open your statement with programspeak I can read no further ::puke::
-
If by programspeak you mean appropriate language.
-
No, I mean simple minded cliches that are thrown out in the place of actual thoughts. :roll:
-
That is my actual thought. It is just written censored as to not scar the minds of any innocent audiences.
I don't expect you to understand that, though, especially if you were one of those cussing up a storm earlier.
-
On 2004-12-03 11:53:00, caitlynloggins wrote:
"That is my actual thought. It is just written censored as to not scar the minds of any innocent audiences.
I don't expect you to understand that, though, especially if you were one of those cussing up a storm earlier."
If that is your "actual thought", then that's very sad and I feel sorry for you.
How aggressive all you program(med) people became when someone spoke of a negative experience they had at Whitmore. It sure does sound like you're trying your best to prove to the whole wide world that Whitmore is not what it has already been proven to be-- another gulag. Your incessant attempts to discredit those who dared to speak out prove that you have a lot to hide.
It's a good thing they're investigating Whitmore. I hope the right thing will be done, and that Whitmore and all the other gulags will be shut down.
-
You know what, it just might be a good thing. It'll prove everyone wrong who says these terrible things about us, and they will see that we really are different from the others.
I'm sorry you feel so upset about these lies, and I just hope you'll eventually see the truth; the real truth.
-
Those brave students who have the wisdom and nerve to tell the truth do not need to speak in slogans. They are free from the mind-twisters who demand that they beat and punish their fellow students. They know that police officers are FRIENDS not "pigs" or "cops" as the Sudweeks allow their students to call them.
-
On 2004-12-03 11:53:00, caitlynloggins wrote:
"That is my actual thought. It is just written censored as to not scar the minds of any innocent audiences.
I don't expect you to understand that, though, especially if you were one of those cussing up a storm earlier."
I understand all too well. Lived it for many years. For the record I was not one of those that was cussing up a storm. When I saw you respond with such cult-speak I had to speak up. Opening your discussion with program cliches when debating with someone who believes the program is dangerous may not be the approach you want to take if you're seriously trying to discuss the issue. Then your haughty response of "I don't expect you to understand" speaks volumes about you.
-
Whitmore does not offer "LOVE" It is ruled through fear...through physical abuse STUDENT ON STUDENT....why do you think the Mission Statement refers to these students as "warriors?"
This is a crime....and thank goodness it is being investigated as SUCH!
-
How can parents expect professional help for their children at Whitmore when all the "GROUP SESSIONS" are led by Cheryl Sudweeks who IS NOT a therapist. She only has a high school education!!!!! (maybe)
-
CHILDREN: why are you letting someone use you to speak such anger at a person when you did not see the events of which you speak? Do you not recognize mind-control? Let's hope this person that is feeding your mind now never ever turns ON YOU!!!!!!!
-
Actually, the event that you speak of was personally witnessed by several students. AND the event that started everything was witnessed by the entire group.
- chris
p.s. I am not hateful to anyone, and I am certainly not programized. I can still honestly say that I would never send my child to a program, but if I had to, I'd send them to where I am right now. I also believe that almost all problems can be worked out in the home. I can, however, understand that some parents simply cant, or feel that they cant, just do it on their own. There will always be the need and demand for programs. Why not let the good ones stand?
Why are we talking about the Whitmore? Many students, including myself were beaten, tortured, and isolated at Ivy Ridge I think, if anything, this is a more worthy topic then talking about supposed abuse to us here.
Please focus your concerns on worthy causes. I can't stress this enough. While you waste your time on us, kids are being beaten and isolated in little rooms without their parents having a clue.
-
Mind control? Yeah, right. You're the one who sounds like the robot here. All you do is go on and on about how bad (you think) it is here, and what terrible things (you think) go on... aren't you 'programmed' to say/think anything else?
I think you're programmed. It didn't take a facility to do it, either; you programmed this stuff into your own mind.
It doesn't pay to focus on bad things.
And by the way... I saw the event or evidence of it in everything I've said to be truth here.
-a child :lol:
-
On 2004-12-03 14:33:00, chrisgentile wrote:
"p.s. I am not hateful to anyone, and I am certainly not programized. I can still honestly say that I would never send my child to a program, but if I had to, I'd send them to where I am right now. I also believe that almost all problems can be worked out in the home. I can, however, understand that some parents simply cant, or feel that they cant, just do it on their own. There will always be the need and demand for programs. Why not let the good ones stand?
Well said, Chris; I agree completely.
Most programs, I know, are horrible. They abuse kids physically, mentally, and sometimes even sexually. Kids are nothing but objects to them. I understand why you would assume this about all programs because of such a high percent of others being terrible. However, you must know that this one is different, and I will stand by that. I know my friends will, too.
I don't know why you're getting so fired up about your accusations towards us. We're getting defensive because it's like a second home to us; at least, that's how I feel. Why don't you just calm down, tell us who you are, and why you're so mad, offensive? Then maybe we could understand better where you're coming from. You've obviously had some misinformation, and we'd like to correct that, if that's all right.
-
Actually, you know what? I really don't want to waste any more time, energy, or thoughts on all this crap, so goodbye.
I am sorry I cannot say it was a pleasent experience. ::puke::
A bientot. :wave:
-
On 2004-12-03 09:53:00, caitlynloggins wrote:
About the 3am thing, group ends around midnight at the very latest. I've seen a few go later than that, yes; a few. No more than that.
then
Bedtime is 10:00pm.
So the last two hours (or more) of rap time consists of getting ready and going to bed?
Your story don't jive, madam. It just don't.
In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a trade unionist. Then they came for Catholics, and I didn?t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
--Protestant minister Martin Neimoller
-
On 2004-12-03 09:59:00, caitlynloggins wrote:
Yeah, since you know them personally and everything.
It's seems quite amusing that you keep bringing up child abuse, or CHILD ABUSE, when you've been accused of it three times. Am I right? We saw you abuse your daughter. We have so many witnesses. What (false) witnesses do you have, huh? I'd love to count them. Usually, there is much strength in numbers in case you didn't know.
Some people are such idiots.
Oh, excuse me... I meant PEOPLE.
You obviously have no idea who you're talking to. That was not the mother of the kid who got pulled recently. But, of course, you know what they say about assuming. Yeah, they said exactly the same thing in the various warehouses in Florida 20 and 30 years ago; word for word. Makes ya' wonder exactly what the connections are between these seemingly different programs, huh?
You assume that the people who are telling of subtle psyche abuse (sleep deprivation, involuntary group discussio of sensitive, personal matters, etc.) are outsiders. What if they're not? What if they're fairly recent former 'students' who want to remain anonymous because they're still scared shitless of you people? It's actually not at all uncomon for graduates to post anon because they don't want to disrupt their family relationships by telling their parent the truth about what happened to them.
It's an incredible con job when you think of it, to believe something now in exchange for life after death. Even corporations with all their reward systems don't try to make it posthumous.
--Gloria Steinam, women's rights activist
-
On 2004-12-03 10:47:00, KyleMcEvoy wrote:
or if you wish, spend
some alone time to think about what you've been saying
about our program.
Um, excuse me. You must have me mixed up w/ someone else. I haven't made any statements about Whitmore. I have asked questions. I know that may make some of you uncomfortable. But I'm not making any statements about the place because I don't have any firsthand experience with it. My whole aim here is to encourage meaningful discussion among those who do have firsthand information and those who are interested to know.
Truth in matters of religion is simply the opinion that has survived.
--Oscar Wilde
-
On 2004-12-03 10:47:00, KyleMcEvoy wrote:
Who would send their own kid to jail for not getting in a car?
Right. So much better to just hire a couple of thugs to come w/ handcuffs and drugs... :roll:
But we digress. I still would like to know how you go about getting rebellious, oppositional, defiant teens to melt into a shimmering pool of love as you say you do. What happens when a kid gets there who simply refuses to give or accept your love bombing? Do you kick them out after a time? Or do you have some method for convincing them to join in the love-fest?
Serious question. Note that I haven't made any statements about how you might go about this cause I don't know. I'm asking a question. Please answer. I'm dying to know how this is done.
History does not record anywhere or at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unkonwn without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
-
Hi Antigen,
You bring up a great point. Meaningful conversation from those with first hand knowledge. I must say, the only folks here that I've seen with this said knowledge would be the kids past and present, and the parents past and present. The only confirmed parent I've seen on this board is Karen, whom I've personally met. She came and visitied us earlier this week all the way from Michigan. Her son is a friend of mine.
I'm sorry, but in my books, you're information means nil if there's no name backing it up, especially when I know how things are.
chris
-
On 2004-12-03 14:33:00, chrisgentile wrote:
Why are we talking about the Whitmore? Many students, including myself were beaten, tortured, and isolated at Ivy Ridge I think, if anything, this is a more worthy topic then talking about supposed abuse to us here.
Though I think you were asking rhetorically, I'd like to answer litterally.
My reason? Because anytime I find out about a group of people who are in the practice of hiring professional kidnappers to take teenagers out of their beds and night and then promise to transform them (against their will) into .... something supposedly better, I ask questions.
Please understand that I don't think you kids are intentionally lying or covering anything up. I think you believe what you're saying 100% But I also know that you are fairly young and have just been through some really unusual changes and that Mark and Cheryl have been cloistered in what looks, for all the world, like a cult for a number of years. Don't take this the wrong way, but any or all of you might not be exactly in your right minds at this time. My own family went through the same thing. Seemed like a gift from Heaven at the time but it really did turn into a hellish nightmare.
I'd like to know more, that's all. That's why I'm asking.
All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
-
I've said many times you can contact me in any method you'd choose. I'd gladly tell you more. I spoke to Shelby @ ISAC all about this. If I were in a cult would I be able to contact an organization that watches for such places? Like I said earlier, if you want to know more I'll tell you more. I'll answer any question you can throw at me.
chris
-
This is fine and about all I have time for.
And yes, every cult has a PR operation. There are Scientologist who spend all their days talking to outsiders; either recruiting or trying to get some good publicity. And there are others who are not allowed contact even with their own families.
Can we hear from someone who just got there? Say, in the last 3 days to two weeks or so? If not, why not?The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
-
Instead of being so angry, why don't you contact the Nephi Police and tell them you about your abuse and help them with this investigation and stop THESE PEOPLE! That would help more than your cussing and ranting!
-
Who's cussing besides you??
-
You will never hear from students who have only been there a short while. The only students on this site are those totally immersed in the PROGRAM and totally brain-washed!
-
The owners would not know HONESTY if it was served to them on a silver platter.
What adult uses KIDS to dish out punishment for them? A chicken shit coward, that is WHO.
-
On 2004-12-03 17:03:00, Antigen wrote:
Can we hear from someone who just got there? Say, in the last 3 days to two weeks or so? If not, why not
Excellent question!!!!!! Caitlyn?? Chris??? Anyone???
-
If you really want the truth---you will not get it from the kids on this site. THEY ONLY WRITE what Cheryl Sudweeks tells them to write. Even their emails home are censored. You are very naive to think you will hear the truth here. These kids beat other kids for HER. These kids lie to the police for HER. The Nephi Police, The Provo Police. That boy's allegations are 100% TRUE. Those very kids bashing him most probably dished out his punishment for HER. Get real....you will never get the truth out of this pitiful, brain-washed kids.
-
OK, OK....I understand what you're saying. I still would like an answer from Chris or Caitlyn.
-
There is no structure at Whitmore...Cheryl Sudweeks has these Kids up all night having little GROUP SESSIONS that she leads...guess she like PLAYING THERAPIST---she is NOT a therapist. She just likes singling out a KID and having her GROUP torment him/her.
Since the first of Nov there has been 3 therapist in charge of 40 Kids...Tim quit to finish his PHd...Cheryl Sudweeeks fired Daivd (WHY?????) now some new woman is there.
Cheryl and Mark encourage the Kids to be disrepectful when the police make all the calls to Whitmore....it deflects attention away from THEM----anything to deflect attention away from them--THAT"S THEIR GAME! The Kids be damned!
Cheryl decides WHICH emails the kids get to read. She gives the word CENSORSHIP a whole new meaning!!!!!!!!!!!
All the Sudweeks are about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and control and some sad joy in tormenting kids who don't GET THEIR LITTLE SICK PROGRAM.
-
Do you think I'm not going to address that?
I'll do better then that. Call, ask for me, and Ill put you on with kids that have been here 2 weeks or less. They wont be able to tell you much about this incident, as they weren't there, but they can certainly tell you their experiences of the Whitmore since they arrived. Also, all of our new kids came with their parents. I might have said that earlier, but if not I think it's important for you to know.
You want answers? Come get them, I'm waiting.
-
Also, Caitlyn told me she will not be posting here anymore, but if anyone has any questions I'll address them.
I stand by this school the way I would a family. This is my second family, and I will not let them destroy the lives of the kids here and of Mark and Cheryl. I will, unfortunately have to leave for college at the beginning of the year, and this will be very hard for me to do. You must understand that I can not let anything happen to this place. If anything were to happen.. all of the kids here would probably end up in some other program where kids really DO get beat. To me, the existance of this programs keeps 40 kids out of Ivy Ridge, or Provo Canyon School, or Cross Creek, or TB and Casa.
-
Oh, if the kids go to another school, MIGHT one of the Sudweeks have to get a REAL JOB....Mark might qualify as a bus driver, and Cheryl might qualify as a prison guard!
Sure hope neither applies at a ZOO....they have a history of cruelty to animals.
-
KIDS really did get beat there at Whitmore and YOU KNOW IT CHRIS! YOU KNOW WHY TOO!
YOU SAW IT CHRIS!
DON'T PRETEND YOU DIDN'T!
-
Don't let it drive ya crazy. Most of us who read and post here have been through similar brainwashing. We know what we're looking at.
Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln
-
Whitmore is JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER SCHOOLS!
It has KIDS SUPERVISING KIDS and it has
KIDS PUNISHING KIDS!
No Kid just shows up and starts loving everybody, that is total bullshit!
They say all the "family" "love" crap in order to survive at Whitmore and to avoid having the shit beat out of them.
If you don't say you LOVE EVERYBODY, then the EVERYBODY beats you until you lie and say you do.
-
Anon, how do you know this? I'm not asking if it's true or not. But how do you come to know what goes on there?
Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author
-
Antigen,
Good objective question.
Anon (with all of the CAPITALIZATIONS),
How 'bout it?
-
Have any of the parents talked to their kids in the past few days? What is going on at Whitmore now? If this investigation continues, will we just be notified to pick up our kids or what?
-
some kids have talked to their parents every day, while others on their call day, or whenever theyre called. You can pretty much call your kid whenever you need them. My mom checks in almost every day now.
-
also to give you a feel for whats been going on...
This week we've done pretty well at maintaining our normal schedule. Our physics and chemistry teacher came for class on his normal days, and the equine kids went out with their horses. Last night we all went to Taco Time, and to play basketball down the street. Today we're going to Salt Lake City. Well I'm gonna go down for breakfast!
chris
-
What would cause you to NOT maintain your normal schedule? What would cause your teacher to NOT come on his regular days?
-
At this point the authorities don't have enough to shut the "boarding school" down. The parents have to decide for their own child. IF the place is shut down, it will take months. Also, it is really common for victims to protect their abusers, especially when they are groomed so well...
-
Well, when cops are coming asking questions every day, all day long, and news reporters come, it does affect a full day schedule atleast slightly.
You're not getting anywhere trying to pick out little things to turn in to issues.
-
I would like to see the former "anonymous" come clean and post their real name. Stop being a spinless coward and stand by your claims!
My comments will probably be blown off because after all I'm just an brainwashed abuse victim protecting my 'parents' after all.
I never was hit by anybody, well except by my good friend Brian Wright after I punched him because of a heated argument in the back of a suburban as to why a particular band he liked was depised by everyone else who actually had ears that worked. I never got beat for saying I didn't love everybody. I rarely said I loved any one to tell you the truth. I'm not emotional and I wasn't persecuted because of it either.
When I came home my head wasn't filled with stuff I didn't believe in or ideas I adapted to "survive" my year. I'm still an athiest. I still maintain a lot of the beliefs I had prior to my year there. I don't live my life according to the standards of others. I think and live for myself. If you don't believe, fine. Just keep investing more and more time into this dead end issue and rack up another 11 pages of garbage.
Have a nice day!
Chris Corkalo
-
I suppose all the kids are not as informed as you Chris. My child is not aware that the police are there every day. I understood that all the questioning was over.
What is going on there?
-
I think parents should call. It is one thing if the police are just clearing things up with Mark and Cheryl. But it is a totally different issue if the kids are still being drug into this.
-
I did not mean that the cops are presently coming every day. I said that to explain why we were not on normal schedule last week. I actually haven't seen the cops here in awhile.
-
The cops dont come here everyday anymore. The last time a cop came was when the young girl was taken away by Joyce, and he was only here to "keep the peace" we do stick to normal schedule, the teachers do come, and we do go to teachers. Unlike many of those who post on these forums, we are informed and educated. Once again, I don't believe you should be posting saying things that go on here, if you have never been here. Thank you!
-Mackey
-
Is Joyce a student there? Who did she take away with her? Did the police stop her?
-
Where are the adults that should be supervising these kids?
-
You students writing here might display your education there by respectfully referring to law enforcement personnel as policemen rather than "cops," don't you think?
Your parents might be a little more proud to read your comments.
-
Guess we're talking to ourselves.
-
I have not personally been disrespectful to any cop. I've only seen one person ever call one of the cops a pig. I naturally refer to cops as cops. I don't see anything disrespectful about that. We're about to go to Provo, UT... so I will not have access to my computer for awhile. Please leave any questions you may have.
-
Chris, are the the spokesperson for Whitmore, or are you just the only student there that is computer literate?
-
YEAH, we post questions, and no one who is there ever responds except CHRIS. Is this really a student, or perhaps we are being fooled and only get to hear what one person there at Whitmore wants parents and the public to hear. Sounds strange to me. YEAH! Who's really speaking to us?
-
Mackey was on line earlier talking about a gril there that took off with a younger girl. Runaways I suppose. But he never came back on line. ???????
-
YEAH! Who's watching these kids and keeping up with them? This is a real concern.
-
I'm starting to get confused. There havent been any runaways. Mackey was talking about the girl whose mother, Joyce, came in in the middle of the night with cops and drug her out. The girl didn't want to go. Its the same story as before. Also, I just want to say that I dont think I will be posting here anymore. No one here apparently cares about what we have to say, unless it has something to do with abuse. I'll end my postings by saying that I have never been abused at Whitmore Academy, nor have I seen anyone abused at Whitmore Academy. On a personal note, don't be fooled if anyone tells you otherwise. The people that are/were really here back their statements up with their name. Anyone with a computer can say whatever they feel. Where's the credibility if you cant place a name with a statement?
- Chris
-
On 2004-12-04 15:02:00, KyleMcEvoy wrote:
Unlike many of those who post on these forums, we are informed and educated.
-Mackey"
Ah, and there's that wonderful spirituality they're teaching you huh? :lol: :lol:
-
I am a member of the Nephi community and so have seen what has been going on at Whitmore. There are a lot of concerns. My question is, to those of you who have more information about this type of program, What is to be done in these situations? Are "cult" type programs illegal in any way? I have heard these kids defend Mark and Cheryl on the street. And I have seen Mark and Cheryl stand by while the kids verbally attack other people. I think it's sad, and someday, hopefully, they will realize the twisted control that Mark and Cheryl have used on them. But what is to be done when you can't identify a specific law that has been broken and the victims themselves WANT to continue to be involved in the situation? What is sad is parents who will stand back and allow Mark and Cheryl to raise their children for them, because, apparently, the abuse isn't "bad enough" to justify taking them home. Have other programs like this been shut down some other way? Just curious.
-
Chris is not the spokesperson for Whitmore, he is the only one who has time to spend some time posting on these forums. Everyother one of us has to go to school, and participate in school. To whomever was wanting to talk to someone who is new, I have only been here for a month, or you can call and talk to a girl named "Alana" who has only been here for a couple of weeks, two weeks tommorow. We also got a new boy today, so you could proberbly call and talk to him if you please, but I dont know if he would want his name posted. You may also call and talk to me and I will be more than happy to answer any questions that you have regarding the Whitmore Academy.
-Mackey
-
To the concerned citizen of NEPHI: Why isn't your local newspaper covering this story....two weeks now and the headlines are about "snowball fights etc.." How about some investigative reporting from your OWN NEWSPAPER?
Why didn't YOU call the authorities about the abuse you saw. We parents were fooled, and our brain-washed children lied for the Sudweeks and told the parents they were happy and "LOVED"
-
What about Chris? Doesn't she need to be in school too, or is she too busy just answering Whitmore questions for adults who are afraid to speak for themselves.
-
DEAR CONCERNED CITIZEN; IT IS NOT TOO LATE FOR YOU TO REPORT WHAT YOU OBSERVED TO THE AUTHORITIES. YOU SAW WHAT YOU SAW, AND NOW YOU HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO REPORT IT!
IF YOU DON'T THEN YOU ARE AT FAULT TOO! THESE KIDS ARE TOO SCARED, OR FOOLED TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES....REMEMBER IT TAKES A COMMUNITY TO RAISE A CHILD, AND THIS IS HAPPENING IN YOUR COMMUNITY.
-
Oh, did hannah just get the shit beat out of her because she just took a stroll down the street? Was Camille beat up for this same reason.
C'on those two girls ran away and got their butts kicked for it and you know it Chris.
-
why doesn't everybody shut the fuck up because the truth will come out eventually. think about it. nobody is getting the point or nobody cares. so if everybody is so right just leave it at that. this issue was dead a long time ago and all this arguing is going nowhere
-
what issue is dead a long time ago? This is just getting started! It is far from settled.
my my my---is that the fine language you learn under the care of Mr. and Mrs. Sudweeks?
-
WHAT EXACTLY IS THE POINT THAT EVERYONE SHOULD BE GETTING, CAN YOU TELL ME THAT?
-
To the concerned neighbor in Nephi,
First, thanks so much for taking an interest.
No, I don't think there's any law against cult practices exactly. There's a very fuzzy line between voluntary involvement in a group, such as a religion or club, and what the psyche field calls coercive persuasion. Here's some info on that:
http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html?FACTNet (http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html?FACTNet)
However, there are laws against some of the things that nearly always occure under those circumstances. For example, out in the real world where you livve, it's clearly wrong and illegal to verbally assault someone on the street as you describe. But, in an insular community, this kind of behavior comes to seem more than OK. If they'll do that to a critic out in public, can you just imagine what they might do to a 12 or 13 year old kid who tries to disagree w/ them behind closed doors?
And I'm not angry w/ you for not doing something already or whatever. This is just not something that most people readily recognize or have learned how to deal with. But I agree w/ the anon poster above. Local media investigation is important. Persistant local interest is important.
Don't be afraid to look at it from a purely self serving position, either. A high demand group in your area, making money, buying property, involving themselves in local politics, etc. is a direct threat to your community. Look into what happened w/ the Synanon Church leading up to the culmination of events when their leader, Chuck Dederich, was convicted of attempting to murder a lawyer who represented a former Synanon member.
I understand that Whitmore has a dozen or so corporate names. You might look into what they're doing under those names.
Finally, it was community interest and investigation that pushed The Seed out of Miami and, eventually, put a stop to their federal funding. So go for it. Ask your local papers and broadcasters, educators and mental health professional associations and regulatory boards to look into this place. That's what you pay them to do, after all.
If there's nothing to worry about, then I suppose Whitmore can stand some close scrutiny, right?
No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
-
To that person in Nephi. When do you consider abuse "bad enough?" If you saw any child being abused whether they are a Whitmore resident or not, don't you feel you should report it? This is crazy to me. Any type of abuse to a child is by far "enough." Call the police now! Every bit of information can help close this place. You have a duty to every child there.
-
First time I ever heard of Nephi, Utah was that crazy Green guy with all the wives, a few just young girls. Now this alleged abuse of kids at Whitmore. What the hell kind of town is this?
Where's the police, the mayor, somebody needs to look around and control some of these people.
-
IT TOOK NATIONAL TV, DATELINE AND ALL THAT TO PUT GREEN IN PRISON WHERE HE BELONGED. MAYBE WHITMORE NEEDS SOME NATIONAL ATTENTION!
-
yeah! none of the mrs.'s Greene's knew they were being abused either. Someone had to tell those women and young girls they were being abused. abuse victims are often the last to acknowledge and recogonize abuse. how can we expect a bunch of kids to recognize what is happening to them? Where are the parents of all these kids?
-
Hi..
I don't have much say in this, but one of my friends went to the Whitmore about 9 months ago. I have talked to them about 3 or 4 times, and they couldnt sound happier. It seems like the Whitmore has given him his life back, and changed him for the better.he would have been able to tell me anything he wanted because no one was around to listen to him talk....
However, reading all these posts is concerning me, and I would just like to know the truth about what is really going on, :sad:
Thanks.
-
My son is attending Whitmore now. He has been there for 5 weeks and I can already see changes. I was impressed from the first moment I arrived there.
good luck
-
http://home.ripway.com/2004-8/154813/Su ... ldings.jpg (http://home.ripway.com/2004-8/154813/Sudweeks_holdings.jpg)
I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
-
On 2004-12-06 10:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My son is attending Whitmore now. He has been there for 5 weeks and I can already see changes. I was impressed from the first moment I arrived there.
good luck"
I'm sure you were. :roll: Send the kiddies somewhere so they can fix what the parents broke in the first place.
You're beginning to see the TAME CHILD-CREATURE.
ZAPPA STRIKES AGAIN!!!!!!
The more BORING a child is, the more the parents,
when showing off the child, receive adulation for
being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME
CHILD-CREATURE in their house.
Frank Zappa
-
Change is always something new and different from whatever went before. But it's not always better. Our government first took interest in the thought reform tecniques practiced by Koreen POW camp operators because they couldn't understand how good American soldiers could become convinced of the superiority of Communist doctrine over good old American independence. But, by the time they were done studying the technique, our good veterens had figured it out for themselves. Read "Before Dishonor" by McDowell.
My dad gave me that book in the spring before the Enterprise reunion in Pensecola in summer where I met the author. He never did understand what they were trying to do to him. Didn't need to, he just resisted. And then came home. I thought of him often as I sat in group.On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
-
this is a dead issue. you immature people got to get a life. If you had one you wouldn't spend some much time on this issue
-
No, it's not dead yet. There's still an investigation going on, possibly charges to be filed, tried and decided. And, of course, there are still familys in the midst of this brawl and those who have gone through it and bounced off who may be interested in better understanding just WTF happened to them.
Patience, grasshopper! G: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do?"
EB: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."
-- Somewhere in No Man's Land, BA4
-
I've read everything posted here and whitmore sounds like an okay place. The only question that has not been answered is how do these changes occur? A child doesn't want to be there and runs away....comes back and instantly loves it and wants to stay. How does this happen? I think this was asked several times and has been avoided. If anyone can answer this simple question then maybe this could all end. It is a very valid question.
-
You've seen in this thread how one kid (staff?) thinks of Whitmore as family. But ask them how they feel about former members of this 'family' and see what happens.
From all I've read about Whitmore and the Sudweeks, they're running your garden variety therapy cult. So long as you go along w/ their directives, they'll continue to stroke you and tell you what a wonderful, strong and coragous parent you are for doing so. Try crossing them and see what happens.
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
-
"I've read everything posted here and whitmore sounds like an okay place. The only question that has not been answered is how do these changes occur? A child doesn't want to be there and runs away....comes back and instantly loves it and wants to stay. How does this happen? I think this was asked several times and has been avoided. If anyone can answer this simple question then maybe this could all end. It is a very valid question"
You are very right. This is an ok place.
I'm sure some kids think of running away...I'm wondering how many actually have run away. My feeling is that when they decide to stay, or come back, or whatever, they - usually young adults- somehow realize that they are almost adults and need to be responsible. I think some of the other kids have a way of communicating that the parents don't. There is no past just a fresh start. Maybe kids are happy because they deep down wanna fresh start and realize this is the best way mto try. So there is one answer to your question.
I wish those anon people and antigen would stop the negative and mean talk towards the parents. That is really mean and you should be more civil.
-
I'm still trying to figure you out antigen...who are you, a student, staff? You keep contradicting yourself, did you read about this or did you experience it. Why don't you get real here and quite dancing around the subject. My guess is you really haven't a clue.
-
My name is Joyce Harris and several parents called and referred me to this site since I have been discusssed several times. I picked up my daughterfrom Whitmore who is age 12 on Nov 27th. First, my husband and I were escourted by Officer Wright from Nephi Police Department, and since I have been represented as an abusive mother who threw her daughter down a fligt of stairs, hit her, and broke her fingers in a car door---anyone is welcome to call this officer and verify that is is a LIE. I was forced to try and locate my daughter's clothes in the dark, while being yelled at by unruly girls. There were only 2 girls sleeping in my daughter's room when we arrived at 2:30 AM, and there was a group of other girls awake in the room across the hall. This surprised me because I was told that Whitemore had a strick bedtime schedule. The kids who are "reporting" and spreading lies about me were NOT present when I came to pick up my daughter---Chris, Mackey, Caitlyn were not there---so they are just repeating untruths that were told to them. Also: I have never been report the Child Protective Services for abuse EVER. This too is a lie, and can be checked by anyone who cares to do so. I have never been fired from a teaching job ever, and this can be verified also, by anyone who cares to check it out. I can stand up to any scruity on my record with any agency that wants to verify any records that have anything to do with any alledged abuse against me, or any employment history I have. I have nothing to hide. If Mr. and Mr. Sudweeks have any problems with me withdrawing my daughter from their school amid charges of child abuse, then they need to contact me directly and not manipulate children to spread malicious lies. I have only responded to a personal email that Chris sent me, and that was to relay a message to my daughter that he and another student asked to say hello to her. I was happy to do that because I respected his seemingly sincerity. We had the right as parents to bring out daughter home. We were not even called by the police or the CPS in Utah about the incident at Whitmore. A mother of a student there called our home. So NO ONE from the authorities in Utah talked us into removing our daughter. And the statement that the 3 students who left Whitmore were all drug addicts is another LIE...our daughter has NEVER used any drugs. Telling lies about students who left does nothing to help solve the issues there at all. We are not accusing any students who stayed there of being horrible, or drug addicts, so why attack our little girl? She did nothing wrong. No one there even know where I teach school, so how could you possible know what my superintendent did or did not do. Why all the lies about me, a mother? I did not use a loud voice to wake up anyone...all those kids were up and about already. Why? I have no idea, and I certainly didn't just use my imagination to make up lies to try and explain it. Maybe it was a simple slumber party. You people are just making a very bad situation worse by slandering people. I would think you have enough to deal with as it is without writing lies about someone. I would suggest that you stop. You have absolutly nothing to gain by slandering me, and by using kids to do this. Remember it can be proved very very eaisly exactly where things are entered from a computer. Anyone can sign someone eleses name to comments. I honestly wonder if Chris, Mackey, Caitlyn really made these remarks about me or if some other person too gutless to use their real name is slandering me. I would strongly suggest you stop now. Joyce Harris
-
I have one other thing to say:
I will not respond to any other postings about me on this site.
It would serve no purpose. We made the decision to remove our daughter. We will trust the authorities in Utah to continue their investigation, to questions witnesses, and to do what is right for a group of kids that need to be protected. I know that I respect social worker, and police officials. I also respect children and their parents.
I do know what I know. I know that many misrepresentations have been made on this site. Our contract reads on page 13 that Cheryl Sudweeks "attended some classes at BYU." That hardly gives her a degree from BYU as stated on this site.
I KNOW that we were told that the group sessions would be lead by a licensed therapist, and they were not. They were led by Cheryl Sudweeks, who is a high school graduate.
I know that we were told that our daughter would be properly supervised at all times. We do not consider proper supervision to be that of other student. Our daughter was left supervised by another student, when the group went to Provo. This was an underage student....and he is a student there with his own problems, and is not qualified to be in charge of other students.
I know that my daughter is a minority, Hungarian Gypsy and that I never expected the owner Cheryl Sudweeks to call my daugher a "Sand Nigger," especially in the today's climate when many people hate terriorists that are referred to that horrendous term.
I know that I never expected my daughter to be exposed to illness by having to dispose of toliet tissue in an un-lined trash can because putting toliet tissue in the commodes would cause them to back up and overflow. The trash can in her bath room and others would be filled with toliet tissue covered with urine, fecus, and often blood, and would remain there until the young boy (whose job it was to empty these trash cans) came to empty them.
I know my daughter, who has never had a physical fight in her life, was forced to participate in punishing---hitting, punching, kicking---another student at the direction of Cheryl Sudweeks. This is depolorable!
So no one needs to try and point out lies about me throwing anyone down a stair case when a police offier was standing at this stair case and know this is a LIE.
Whoever is writing LIES about me needs to be spending time praying for their own forgiveness, and trying to clean up that filty mansion, and trying to explain their OWN ABUSIVE BEHAVIORS.
Joyce Harris
-
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 5&start=40 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&topic=4457&forum=35&start=40)
1. The SPCA charge about leaving the horses with
no food.
I read the court transcripts, and I think that
they screwed up severely. Since I have met
Trinity, Mark and Cheryl, I know for sure
that meant well, because they are nice, animal
loving people. The only thing I can think of
is that all the individuals involved must have
thought that the other person was on the job:
http://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL- ... dweeks.htm (http://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL-SEIZURES/Regina-v.Sudweeks.htm)
The end result is that they lost the horses,
dogs, $124,000 and Mark is never allowed to
own animals in BC again. Pretty severe
punishment, but it was a big mess up, and I
imagine that they learned their lesson. I
can't contact them right now, because they
are at a lake retreat.
2. Alleged co-ownership of "New Hope Academy",
a school in Somoa that was closed because
children were abused and abandoned:
Here is the allegation:
http://www.isaccorp.com/wwasp/documents/wwasplist.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.com/wwasp/documents/wwasplist.pdf)
Here is what appears to be the whole story - it
looks like Mark was not involved, he just
got ripped off by the bad guy:
http://www.teenliberty.org/Samoan.htm (http://www.teenliberty.org/Samoan.htm)
The perp, a scumbag named Steve Cartisano,
seems to have done this a number of times,
and is a slick con man.
Why is it that it's always someone else's fault with these people???
-
Mark Sudweeks plead GUILTY to Animal Cruelty in Canada AND he and Cheryl Sudweeks chose to have a business relationship with Stephan Cartisano....SO how can they plead ignorance and that none of this is their fault? Anyone supporting them on these two issues can not be thinking straight.
-
Thank you Joyce! Thank you for finally giving us some facts about what is really going on at Whitmore. These are things that I think the professionals cannot tell us parents because of fear of legal repercussions from the Sudweeks.
-
So I have heard Whitmore is the child of Provo Canyon School. Some of the most corrupt staff formed it after Provo was bought by Universal and wouldn't allow for Mormon guided rules. If anyone knows if Allison Beardall or Moe work there please let me know. I have some personal lawsuits to attend to.
-
Whitmore is not associated with Provo Canyon. It was moved from an earlier school in Canada. None of the names you mentioned work for the Whitmore either. They must have gone elsewhere. Good luck in locating them.
-
Yeah sure. And Straight had nothing to do w/ The Seed and SAFE is nothing like Straight and on and on. Anyone care to name a few (dozen) other programs that claim to not be anything like each other?
But where did the philosophy come from? How different is the culture now, with all the new faces and all, than how it was before?
You will not get any objective answers to that question from people w/ a vested interested in promoting the Program; vested much more deeply than cash can reach. The best way to answer that question is by comparing notes w/ people who were there back then.
That's what the FH for WWF is all about. (and the acronym is not exactly accidental, just coincidental and too apropos to pass up)They serve so that we don't have to. They offer to give up their lives so that we can be free. It is, remarkably, their gift to us. And all they ask for in return is that we never send them into harm's way unless it is absolutely necessary. Will they ever trust us again?
Michael More
-
No. Bethel Academy in Mississippi, boys and a girls is your best choice. My daughter has been to that school. Thriving now at Bethel. What a difference. Those other schools are too I feel
abusive emotionally.
-
If she's at Bethel now, then how do you know how she's doing?
The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
O'Brien, the apparatchik
-
On 2004-12-20 18:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No. Bethel Academy in Mississippi, boys and a girls is your best choice. My daughter has been to that school. Thriving now at Bethel. What a difference. Those other schools are too I feel abusive emotionally."
:rofl:
You're joking, right? Bethel is one of the most abusive facilities in the industry. It was notorious even before WWASP took it over.
-
YOU GOT THE ISH BEAT OUT OF YOU BY cASIE WILLIS FORGET TO mention that sweetie!!!!! She gave u a fat black eye........along with a kick in the head as well as Cammille!!! stop worrying bout thosae other people in the WWASP OR whatever programs that ARE GETTING BEAT....YOU WERE BEAT DUMB ASS!!!!! DEFINITION....BLOWS TO THE HEAD AND UPPER BODY AND YOU JUST SAT THERE AND ALLOWED IT TO SCAREED TO STEP UP FOR UR SELF!
-
I don't know who you are talking about with blows to the head but you need to get your facts straight sweety and why do you even care, you know what i don't know why people go on this so much, it is so boring and all you do is get pissed off and people like mrs. harris write a stupid long letter about what she did the night that she came and I was there so i know what happened, more than she would like to admit because she is trying to cover up something, i saw what she did and she can't take that back, Zitah is too scared to say anything anyway, so anonymous I don't know why you are focusing on the beating but why do you care so much??
-
People care about the beatings by Casie and other students because students beating other students is wrong! Especially when they are directed to beat each other by the Sudweeks. Also, Zita is not afraid to tell the truth about everything she observed at Whitmore. Whoever is saying she is afraid to tell the truth is also wrong. Who are you talking to? It is obvious you haven't talked to Zita yourself.
-
I was there and I saw Hannah and Camille get beat up by Casie and all because they ran away because Mark found out Hannah wrote an email home from the library. And the Sudweeks say those kids are free to write to whoever they want to and any time they want to. That is a lie.Cheryl let Casies beat up those two girls after she had yelled and cussed at them. That is the facts.
-
ur right i was there 2 and i am glad ur backing me up...... cause what i saw and heard...is what u saw and heard obviously if you were there...
-
You have told the truth about these girls---Now you need to tell the truth about what you saw happen to the "boy who was beat up there"...the one who filed the abuse charges against Mark and Cheryl. I have told the whole truth and will continue to tell the truth!
-
i have told the truth, everything bout what happened to him. When the police questioned me i finally felt safe telling an adult what they did to joey and how things were being handled at the Whitmore. Don worry about that because i have told EVERYTHING down to cheryl and the kids at the movies and i am glad i did.
Hopefully things will get better there and if it results in them getting shut down then let it be, cause everything happens for a reason.
-
Good for you! I know NOW that you told everything TOO! I know all about the movie in Provo too when Cheryl was involved in the fight with that boy and the Provo police were called. Then she used the Whitmore kids again and made them lie to the police when she told them to lie for her, saying " I need your help on this one kids."What kind of stupid adult woman gets involved in a fight with some kid, and then has kids she is in charge of lie for her?
I would like to talk to you in private off of this site. Would you send an email to Antigen so we could exchange email addresses?
-
P.S. Just go to "Private Messages" and send Antigen a message that you need to talk to the person on this site that is talking back and forth with you. I will send her a message too.
-
no thnnx....i would rather skip the private messaging . However i will answer any questions you may have regarding to the incident.
-
On 2005-01-08 21:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"no thnnx....i would rather skip the private messaging . However i will answer any questions you may have regarding to the incident."
Cool, thanks.
First, where you there? If not, give a little background on how you come by what you know. Not doubting you. Just trying to get the whole story. And, btw, this is like throwing chum to the waters. I don't care whether you read or respond to trolls or not. It's entirely up to you. But I hope you won't let them distract you from more serious conversation.
Please give us a rough sketch of what happened. A lot of readers might not know anything at all about it.
How did the fight start? What happened next? Who called the police? What happened next?
What was Cheryl's vresion? Of the Whitmore kids who were there, how many supported her version of events initially and later? What other witnesses were there? Does this sort of thing happen a lot, w/ town kids making fun of Whitmore?
He who laughs lasts
--Crazy Mac
-
yeah i was there...we all went to the movies in provo all together asd a group, or "family night" which happened every week or every other week where we all went to town and saw a movie or arte dinner, or just did something fun as a group. most of the times it was alot of fun.
that night we went to the movies and a fight broke out between our boys and two young minor males in the movie theatoer. At the theater was Trinity, Cheryl's daughter and her newly wed husband Jeff. Her daughter trin was having custody issues with Kathryn's father, her ex husband at the time..... and by coincidence trinity's ex-husband happened to be at the theater with a girl Leah who was supposedly dating Trevor at the time. The group was very 'HOT" ON the issue because Leah was there good friend and even cheryl couldn't understand why she would be trying to date a 30 year old man. A lot of the kids hated her and called her crude names out loud in front of cheryl and cheryl did as well.
anyways, back to the theater.....movie went on and on, then ended. Then as the group was headed out of the theater into the lobby i saw that a group of our boys was yelling and cussing , but not screaming, at these two boys who were leaving the theater. wHITMORE BOY'S WERE instigating the other two boys that started it all by calling trinity a bitch while in the theater and the movie was playing,... by following them and circling around them. Cheryl was not out of the movie at the time. By the time cheryl and mark got outside, the scene was led to the parking lot and when i saw that the boy's were attempting to get physical but were held back by other students; cussing and threats were made against eachother and plenty of punches were thrown...... i knew that someone wasw going to get hurt if things were stopped so i turned back and cheryl was walking out of the theater a little ways behind me. I told her that she really needed to get over there before someone was going to get hurt. I thought she would go over, take charge, and handle the situation like a mature adult would but guess not. Instead she ran over to the crowd of boys and was cussing and screaming ( very embarrassing actually, specially in public) she said stuff like "yeah! whats it like now to have 40 boys on ya'!!!? ha!!!!!!!!" And just went on cussing and yelling liikke a crazy woman.
I srtood back and just watched everything cause i was just shocked and everything, I did not know what to think or feel to tell u the truth. That's when i knew that things around the whitmore were getting sickly twisted into what 'family" and teaching by examples and good standards and morals really were meant to be.
Police came, came on the bus questioned sum of the students, then handed out police reports. Cheryl told everyone that if they didn't cover for her false actions, thean she would be charged with disorderly conduct. She should've been by the way she was handling it all.
Even some bystanders said to me..." man !!! who's that crazy lady!? is she actually in charge of the group????"
-
Ok, Trevor would be Trinity's ex, right? And I'm guessing Trinity is on good terms w/ Cheryl and the Program, right? Did Trinity go through the program or some other program? Would she be considered a member of the organization? Had Leah ever been affiliated w/ Whitmore?
Was this unusual behavior for Cheryl? I've heard from several people that she acts like that quite often. Is that not so?
Also, what was her version of the story?
You said "That's when i knew that things around the whitmore were getting sickly twisted into what 'family" and teaching by examples and good standards and morals really were meant to be."
If you don't mind my asking, how long had you been at Whitmore and what had changed over that time?
History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan
-
As a parent from Whitmore, I have a question: Can you explain the "subliminals that the students are required to listen to every morning for about an hour?" I understand that the students lose privileges if they do not participate in this "activity." What exactly is said in these subliminals? Is it a form of brainwashing? Why do the Sudweeks think it is so important? Is sounds sort of scary to me.
Thanks.
-
ok well as you alreqdy iknow I Was a student at the Whitmore, but now i am back home.
Subliminals were a way of starting off our day positively: WITH positive affirmations. We listened to them usually from 5 to 5:30 in the morning or even sometimes 4 to 4: 30 whch is i think what is on their schedule now according to the web site :wink:
It's funny u asked me the question because I was in charge of making sure that people had their subs on in the mornings { a.k.a. subliminal monitor} I arrived at the Whitmore June 18th and only two months after i was given the job of subliminal monitoring in the mornings. So i was sub. monitor for about 3 months.....and got alot out of it but also thought it was a little too brainwashing. It was always a must do and was required by all thre kids in the mornings if they wanted to go into town or do any of the following days or weeks spcial events. Now i understand that that was a way of discipline and just something we simply had to do to be able to do things with the group like movie, mall, etc... and i respected that but some things were jus takena little to seriously like subliminals.
I had to wake up extra early to do my hygiene and go through all three levels of the mansion to see if people had them on right at the time they were told by cheryl to be on, like i said,,,,,,, strictly to schedule.
When Cheryl asked me to give her daily reports,{ but not every day did she ask me}, i told her who had their subs on time and who didn't. The kids who didn't had to provide her with an explanation of why and that sounds normal to me because when we chose to act against the group or disagreed, like me, on some things in the group snd were confronted it was ALWAYS turned into this huge BIG deal cause one person thought differently than the rest of the group.
When kids there went against the rules and chose not to do what all the others were doing in the sch4dule they were punished...by either having group on them, getting v erbally attacked or just plain old reemed on simply cause they didn't believe in the subliinal messages._ and we all have our rights and diferent beliefs.
SOme kids there would say that they didn't get anything out of subliminals and to tell u the truth being subliminal monitor , people would always expect me too honor the idea of suliminals, but really i didn't. I REALLY didn't. However, even though they are a 45 minute recording on a computer streaming throught he speakers of ur computer at the crack of dawn, know that they are good r4cordings to listen to. But to listen to them every morningl......... had to be brain washing...atleast i felt it was for me.
For example in subliminal sayings in the morning....." I feel loving, I choose to be loving, I AM loving." I feel trustworthy, i choose to be trustworthy , I Am trustworthy." The whole recordings it is basically.......I AM, I CHOOSE , I FEEL __________ < and that blank is filled in with any positive charqcteristic SOMETHINg always telling you what you were [ AND MAYBE WEREN'T at that time in ur life] BUT THE WHOLE POINT OF SUBLIM INALS WAS TO REPeat into ur ears over and over again to u actually were convinced that u were loving, friendly, happy, etc...etc.........that is brainwashing to me and if ur opinion differs than that's perfectly fine. I respect ur opinion.
I don't know why subliminals were so important to cheryl, i don't know why she did the things she did in the manner she did. And it hurts me cause even though i have left the whitmore snd i told the truth and A"ruined" all their lives, it's a ashame cause i was ony doing it to help cheryl cause i think that she was covering up ALOT of pain in her life. pain she couldn't deal with ad what drove her to act the way she did... I don't want her to live her life miserably now, I just want her to understand the true meaning of HONESTY ANd HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS as well as the other kids there.
***If you have any other questions feel free to ask me.***
-
Thanks for going into such detail. It's very helpful.
I just want her to understand the true meaning of HONESTY ANd HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS as well as the other kids there.
I had to chuckle a little here. Been there! Believe it or not, this sounds a whole lot like The Seed or Straight at various times. And, at one point, I ran and was brought back some weeks later. That was the only time I was ever really physically punished. They kept demanding that I apologize to Group and I kept saying I couldn't because it wouldn't be honest (Honesty was the first and, allegedly, most important rule)
I actually meant it, too. I hadn't wanted to go back at all. I simply had no choice. But once I was there staring all these other kids in the face I realized that I owed it to some of them to stand my ground. I'd seen a whole lot of them broken to tears many times in front of group and some physically bullied and hurt. I knew I had an ass whoopin' coming if I kept on, but I really felt obliged to stick it out. It was the only way I could send a message to all those kids I'd yelled at or watched get it and done nothing to let them know I thought it was wrong.
I never was all that connected w/ them, though. I guess it's quite painful for you to be cut off from the group right now. But don't worry too much. Most people sort of shake it off and come to their senses. Your good friends will probably figure this all out eventually and it'll be ok.
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones
-
thank you for ur support. Thaank you so much cause i did have some really good friendships there
I agree with u and support you 100% on what u said about the groups n' stuff. That's just what it was liike for me, always witnessing stuff and strongly disagreeing with the bullying and physical fights that went on, but i would just keep quiet in group cause I knew that if i went against cheryl or even spoke oout differently than all their " paradyms" than i would get it bad.....my way of telling them they were wrong was just by giving the silent treatment when they confronted me on things... when i didn't talk in the groups on me which was usually never but only like twice, I didn't care cause i knew that they wouldn't pull me down. No one there ever made me think a certian way or feel a way they told me i should feel, i thought and felt my own way....from my heart instead of my head. and certainly not to please other's expectations like i was supposed to think like the other 40 of them 24/7....hell no.
i knew that things needed to get addressed whether they were "family" or not, and things were kept secret from the paretns and so on, I wasn't afraid to speak the truth and so i did, but to the police inst4ad of the group. and if that meant that cheryl and mark could lose their jobs than whatever.
When the whole group went to lake powell this past september they had a group on me , a big one on my attitude i pretty scared considering it was freezing outside and we were all huddled round the campfire ROUND 12 in the morning. ha! I hated that night. some crazy ish. anyways, yeah my attitude. They all dug into me with their , crude insults and words. Their words peirced me and only made me worse for the night. I was threatened by alot of them to get the ish beat out of me and called various crude names all the time, if i didn't speak or apologize.
just like you said, i wasn't going to apologize if i truly didn't feel sorry from my heart. Sometimies i was sorry for the way i acted towards the group and i did apologize in those circumstances, but most i didn't , since honesty came first right??? :grin:
I wasn't really involved with the whole family thing there, that was really scary and just a little too over doing it for me. Friends that's what some of them were. Friends that were there with most or all of the problems and reasons i had for being there.....defiance, depression, or whatever.
-
You always put the word "family" in quotation marks, and it seems that the Sudweeks tried to make you kids there think of them as YOUR FAMILY. Is this why the Sudweeks withheld mail that the parents sent, and listened in on telephone calls to the parents? Were the Sudweeks trying to replace the real parents in some ways? ALSO, what did you consider UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS about Cheryl Sudweeks? Did you ever get the feeling that Cheryl acted inappropriately sexually towards any of the girls? My daughter has hinted about this, but has not come out and actually said so for a fact. I think she is afraid to say what Cheryl really does.
-
You said"I wasn't too involved in the family thing there (at Whitmore) it was too scary."
What do you mean by that? The Sudweeks and some of the kids writing here talk about all the LOVE and FAMILY there. What did you find so "scary" about it? Its seems that the concept of "HONESTY" means that if you didn't think like the Sudweeks wanted you to think, then you were not being honest. Is that what you meant? I am just trying to understand the dynamics going on there.
-
In response to your statement that you thought "Cheryl was covering up a lot of pain in her life...." Did she confide her personal problems to you kids? Didn't you think this was sort of strange having an adult woman who was suppose to be in charge of group sessions, and who was suppose to be directing and leading kids with problems of their own sharing enough of her own problems to worry you kids? Sounds to me like she WANTED TO BE ONE OF THE GANG, and did not present herself as a mature, leader. And her outbursts and getting into physical confrontations with other town kids, and all the cursing and ranting. SURE seems like strange and out of control behavior to me.
-
Another question on the subliminals: How do you know that the subliminals take place about 4AM now according to the website? We who left Whitmore can not get into that website now because of the password thing.??????
Do you think the subliminals were bad, or do you just think that they were another activity that Cheryl used to control what the kids did each morning, just to show that she was in control of the kids from the minute they woke up until the minute they went to sleep at night?
Did you feel sleep deprived all the time, especially when you had duties, like the sub monitor that gave you even less sleep than the other kids? What seemed to be the purpose of keeping you kids up at all hours of the night,--like for group sessions that Cheryl would have, and not letting you kids have proper sleep at night?
-
On 2005-01-12 20:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You always put the word "family" in quotation marks, and it seems that the Sudweeks tried to make you kids there think of them as YOUR FAMILY. Is this why the Sudweeks withheld mail that the parents sent, and listened in on telephone calls to the parents? Were the Sudweeks trying to replace the real parents in some ways? ALSO, what did you consider UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS about Cheryl Sudweeks? Did you ever get the feeling that Cheryl acted inappropriately sexually towards any of the girls? My daughter has hinted about this, but has not come out and actually said so for a fact. I think she is afraid to say what Cheryl really does. "
If you have all of these doubt, maybe your daughter shouldn't be in there. There are other places to put her. Do some research on it, but why leave her in there with all of your suspicions? Is it for some reason out of your control?
-
It's obvious that you made some real friends at Whitmore. How did Cheryl manage to turn you kids against each other so easily, and make you call each other names, and beat each other up, and all that during these group sessions? Why did she seem to want to do this? What was her purpose, or reasoning as you saw it?
-
On 2005-01-12 18:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"thank you for ur support. Thaank you so much cause i did have some really good friendships there
Hey, so very glad to be of any help!
I wasn't really involved with the whole family thing there, that was really scary and just a little too over doing it for me. Friends that's what some of them were. Friends that were there with most or all of the problems and reasons i had for being there.....defiance, depression, or whatever.
Then they probably still are. This has all got to be pretty confusing for a lot of people. But just hang in there. It'll sort itself out somehow.
Honestly, the more I find out about Whitmore the more I think it's probably a whole lot more like The Seed than like a WWASP or Palmer program or something. And, just lately, there are a bunch of aging Seedlings w/ various viewpoints posting over to the Seed forum. You might be interested in reading some of that.
Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947
-
After reading several postings on the Seed site, there does not seem to be much difference to me between it and the Whitmore Academy----adults using humiliation, and fear in a cult-like setting to make money off a bunch of kids with problems by brainwashing them and their parents while serving them peanut butter-and jelly sandwhiches. Pretty much like the inadequate and substandard food at Whitmore. A bunch of talk about love and getting their lives straight while hero-worshipping some man who did not have the best interest of the kids in mind at all.Both present an abusive atmosphere that cause lots of damage to kids who need help, not this type of treatment.
-
Have any of you Whitmore parents talked to the Sudweeks lately about the status of Whitmore since they "surrendered their license to have a treatment facility" at either the boys' house or the mansion location? Last I heard, the Sudweeks were applying with the city of Nephi for a license for a private SCHOOL at the mansion location that definitely would not have any provisions for any type of treatment available for the kids. Personally, I could have a child in private school locally a lot cheaper, and without any provisions for treatment, then the question is WHY WHITMORE THEN? Guess their little referral person is in for some more big bucks now...she can just refer all these kids on to another place, huh?
-
Hannah: I am not a "raving woman"nor do I tell lies. I do not understand your anger towards me. But then--I have not been beaten up by a fellow student at the direction of Cheryl Sudweeks either, just because I used the library computer to send an email home. I think you need to talk to your parents honestly. I think that some of your behavior there at the Whitmore would shock and displease them...they certainly shocked my 12 year old daughter. And Cheryl Sudweeks was suppose to be "supervising you at the movies, wasn't she?" Now you have a nice day, and don't waste any more of your valuable computer time telling lies about me.
-
:lol: yeah i wanna know wuss going on with the Whitmore acdemy...too and i agree totally with u Mrs. Joyce because Hannah i think is very scared to even tell the truth to her own parents..and thas pretty sad in my opinon. Hannah u reely need come to ur senses and just talk with ur paretns honestly., instead of lying. Or maybe i'm wrong, maybe they do know that u got beat up by casie or did u just say ," i did not get beat up BY THE DIRECTION of cheryl sudweeks...{ whutever that means} u still got beat up sweetie..no difference and it doesn't make anything better. stop protecting that woman!!!Tell themeverything that happened. EVERYTHNIG. Do they even know anything about ur black eye that casie gave you? the movies and kyle ? and everything else.... it would help if you just told them. after all honesty is one of the ten virtues read every sunday there right?
She was beat up, maybe not by cheryl telling another student to beat her up but she was definately ok with it because it happened right in fron of her little thrown or 'chair' in the group room and seemed perfctly fine with it all. She didn't try and stop casie or hold her back , just sat there.
I am not sure who asked me the questions about the subs but u know i have been doing some thinking and i had the discussion with some other friends of mine. Why would brain washing good stuff and positive affirmations be a bad thing?? well it's good that they were positive things just i think that any type of brain washing taken to that extreme is unhealthy along with the sleep deprivation that went with it. It was terible. I remember being the sub monitor not being able to barely lift a finger in the morning because i was so tired my brain wasn't even functioning right.
I am just so happy that now i am home and have my own room all to myself and can get atleast 9, 10, or 11 hours of sleep at night and can go on the next day performing well at my work and classes. my REAL school.
And to put all the other postings in a nut shell i don't know why cheryl did the things she did, kept the kids up so late at night, i don't know why she encouraged the kids to act out violently and cuss at eachother
She sometimes made sexual and crude jokes bout whut the kids kid. Like about hannah and kyle in the movie theater where she was supposedly supposed to be supervising all of us. In regards to the fact that it was a house hold full of teengers with some but not all that had raging hormones, sexual activity among the kids was of course a huge action that would cause a lot of discipline for the person who chose to act out on that.
Also, about the 'family" thing there. I just think the reason why they listened to our phone conversations was because they were just straight up nosy and were afraid of any of the kids telling the paretns about the incidents that went on. When cheryl found out that one or two of the kids that had told about the movies, or Joey incident, she went crazy n jus yelled and said like why would u do such a thing. ppppssssssh! I told my parents everything cause i just could. I didn't keep anything from them and i told them that things were getting out of hand there and getting overlooked and i'm reeeeeaaaaaaallly happy i did!!!! hopefully some of the other kids will come forth and say the truth too.
And about the groups, Cheryl led them of course but would always begin them and they would like never end. Some groups went on till like 1 or sometimes 2 in the morning, following waking up n the mornings at the crack of dawn. She would sometimes share with us her personal emotional problems about her past as a child but would never get into too much detail. It was nice but half the times i had problems i wouldn't speak about them cause i knew i would be reemed on or just verbally attacked etc... and just because i wanted to get some rest. And that's pretty sad to look back on because i always had something bothering me and that i was encouraged to bring up in group but i didn't because i felt that if i didn't speak than we could all go to sleep.
-
On 2005-01-18 21:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
am not sure who asked me the questions about the subs but u know i have been doing some thinking and i had the discussion with some other friends of mine. Why would brain washing good stuff and positive affirmations be a bad thing?? well it's good that they were positive things just i think that any type of brain washing taken to that extreme is unhealthy along with the sleep deprivation that went with it. It was terible. I remember being the sub monitor not being able to barely lift a finger in the morning because i was so tired my brain wasn't even functioning right.
I've asked about it. Honestly, a couple of people have. Back when the whoamidiscovery.com website was wide open, I wandered around a bit and invited a few friends to do the same.
We read a bunch of the reports that you guys did on each other. To a lot of us, those looked just exactly like what we called OBs (observations). In our program, Straight, when we got to the highest level before graduation, we had to write obs on lower phasers every day.
The subliminals seemed suspicious for a couple of reasons. If you put together the timeframes that ya'll talk about, it's obvious that nobody was getting enough sleep. If you really want to addle someone's brain, the best way to do that is to mess w/ their sleep in the wee hours, early in the morning. That's when most people get their best REM sleep. The subs looked to me like a good way to intrude on that.
Another way to keep people well off balance is to press constant contradiction on them. In our program, whenever someone was getting an ass kicking--either right there in the room where we could see (if we broke the rule and looked) or in the next room where you could only hear the yelling and banging--staff would have us sing cheerful little nursery rhymes at the top of our lungs. There is nothing quite like a couple of group renditions of Zippety-Do-Dah sung fast and loud over the screams of a kid getting their ass kicked on the floor next to you.
Here's the creepy part. We pulled it off! Unlike Whitmore, our parents were at least as close as the parking lot twice a day and inside the building twice a week. They saw us every day once we made 2nd phase. And we had them, and in many cases ourselves, thoroughly convinced that there was just nothing goin' on in there but cheerfullness and positivity. It was against the rules to be negative! If you were negative, why you might get confronted by group (purely out of love, of course). And this could go on for hours and hours if you did't catch yourself and play it right!
The way the subs have been described in the context of some of what else has been described reminds me of that aspect of the thing.
The other thing that bothers me about it is that it's obvious that you kids are placed in authority over other kids and required to enforce these rather unusual (to say the least!) program policies on each other.
I hope everybody reading this understands that kids are kids and that there are damned good reasons why we don't allow them to vote, hold public office, enter into binding contracts, etc. And why we give everyone a clean slate, by default, at the age of majority.
If any of you are afraid to talk about what goes on there because you think you're responsible, think again. The adults are responsible. You kids are in the process of becoming adults. We all understand that. I'm not saying you're the same as 10 year olds or anything. But if Mark and Cheryl have you thinking that if you tell you'll all be in some trouble, that's just bull! They'll be in some deep shit because they're adults who ought to know better. You guys are just doing what you're told and conditioned to believe is right.
Oh, and BTW, I understand that the Whitmore is only licensed as a B&B at the moment and that your parents are paying good money for your stay there. I think you ought to tell the Sudweeks to rattle some pots and pans and bring you breakfast in your rooms! Emotions rule the world; Is it any wonder that it's so mucked up?!
Bill Warbis
-
Yea, and the Sudweeks "surrendered their license to have a treatment center at the Whitmore too" WONDER WHY???? So when Cheryl Sudweeks wants to have one of her late night little therapy group sessions, all you kids can use the fine language she encorages there, and just tell her to FUCK OFF and bring you a midnight snack instead!
-
Parents: Pull up the Whitmore Bed and Breakfast on the internet. The room rates are advertised at $55 to $85 per night. We were paying $3,750 per month to have our daughter at Whitmore. Now that there is no treatment available for kids at Whitmore...and we all know that education is of minor consideration there....JUST WHAT EXACTLY is your hard-earned money paying for? Divide that cheap Bed and Breakfast room rate by 3 to 4 guests....and guess what? You may need to ask the Sudweeks for a great big ole REFUND, people!Especially when your own kids do all the cooking and cleaning at that fine Bed and Breakfast.
Add in the fact that your own kids do their own teaching, what a deal. Maybe we all need to quit our jobs and open up a Bed and Breakfast for minor kids ourselves up there in Utah.
-
Thank you for explaining some of the things we had questions about at Whitmore. Also, thank you for being very kind to our daughter while she was there. She had very nice things to say about you, and knew that you really cared about her. You will never know how much we appreciate your goodness and sweetness, and I am happy that you are home and safe. I was very worried about you, and I am so glad that you are doing so well.
You are very brave, honest and I am proud of you.I am an adult, and the lies hurt---so I know you have been hurt too; but you have done the right thing.
-
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/let ... index.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/lettertoeditor/whitmoreindex.html)
-
On 2005-01-20 19:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/let ... index.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/lettertoeditor/whitmoreindex.html)"
First testimonial:
but we saw nothing that would be untoward in the average American household.
I suppose it depends on what you think is untoward in the average American household. Ok, say you're out at the movies w/ your kid and a dozen or two of their friends. One of the kids gets into a ruckus with your granddaughter's father and new girlfriend. Do you:
- Tell the kid in your charge to behave themselves.
- Take the kids out of the theatre because things are getting out of hand.
- Enter the frey, fight like a banchee and then get the kids to corroborate your story so as to avoid charges.
Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.
--
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
Hey, that was posted December 10, 2004. Here's more:
The Whitmore offers a unique solution for problem teens but it is by no means a not a panacea. It has a proven basic program that is augmented by spontaneous action and adaptive improvisation, an alien concept to most state agencies. Rather than trying to close down the Whitmore, the public would be better served by understanding the strengths of the program with a view to duplicating them elsewhere.
Was there something going on at Whitmore prior to that? Who's trying to close them down? Why?
Can anyone explain the "proven basic program that is augmented by spontaneous action and adaptive improvisation"? I'm not government, but this seems alien to me too. How, exactly, does it work?
A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of your unit.
-- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's magazine of preventive maintenance
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
anon: you referred to Struggling Teens website and a group of letters from parents supporting Cheryl and Mark Sudweeks. These letters were written the first part of December. Do these parents know that since their postings that the Sudweeks have surrendered their license to have a treatment facility at the boys' home and at the Mansion location to the State of Utah? So if these kids can not received treatment--what exactly is their money paying for? Just school? And, academic schooling does not seem to be a top priority at Whitmore, so why not just have these children in private school at home and send them to a good therapist at HOME? And please do not forget, the criminal investigation is still in progress. That promblem has not simply gone away, either. So right now it appears that all the Sudweeks have to offer the parents is some type of "school" with no provisions for therapy, and the only license they currently have is for a bed and breakfast. My choice would be to take my child home and get them therapy at home where I know they are safe. Then I would put them in a school where I knew they had qualified teachers and a curriculum that assured them of a quality education. People need to wake up, take responsibility for their own kids, and talk to a few authorities and figure this deal out!
-
In reference to the FIRST TESTIMONIAL: I wanted to respond and give examples of happenings at Whitmore that I consider to be "untoward in the average American family."
- Most American families have toliets that allow one to place soiled toliet paper in the commode and flush it away. At the Whitmore, soiled toilet paper can not be put in commodes, or they will overflow. So used toliet paper is put in un-lined trash cans, and is left there until the poor student, whose job it is to empty this mess comes around and hauls it away.
-Most American families with growing teenagers know that one bowl of cold cereal and a glass of water is NOT a wholesome, nutritious, adequate breakfast meal. But this is what is often served at the Whitmore, and kids know better than to ask for seconds!
Most American parents and caregivers of teenagers know teenagers need at least 7-8 hours of sleep to function academically the next day. Kids at Whitmore are sleep deprived because Cheryl Sudweeks has marathon group sessions, some going until 2 to 3am, and then the kids are REQUIRED to begin listening to recorded subliminals at 5am.
Most American families want and desire harmony and peace in their family, and would never direct or encourage one child to physically attack another family member. This happens at the Whitmore at the direction of Cheryl Sudweeks, and the ABUSER has no choice in the matter. Everyone knows the one being abused certainly has no choice.
Most American families would seek professional help if they knew a teenager under their care was acting out sexually in a public place---like a teenage girl "giving a hand job" to a teenage boy in a movie theatre. Once the adult in charge was aware of this behavior, a responsible adult would surely NOT SAY..."oh, well I can't take sex away from you guys, can I?"
These are just a few examples of things that have happened at Whitmore that I am certain the person giving the Testimonial must surely not be aware of. The person needs to talk with the minor child he/she is reponsible for, and reconsider just what his/her teenager is being exposed to at Whitmore.
I am certain they are caring parents, and these type of things do not go on in their family.
-
Some of these testimonials are pretty far out there!
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/let ... 41209.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/lettertoeditor/whitmore-milliken041209.html)
The weekend was a wonderful experience as we were then allowed to take XXXXX with us for several days and actually have time away from the academy to speak with him about the Whitmore without monitoring. Not once did he ever indicate to us any type of physical or emotional abuse. In fact we even took another young man (XXXXX) with us for an overnight, and between XXXXX and (XXXXX), only good things were spoke about the academy. (XXXXX) was getting ready to graduate the program and also graduate from high school. He would be leaving within the next week and was already enrolled at a community college in his home time. What a success story.
Emphasis added
What's with the extra kid? If I went to visit my daughter after 8 months of not seeing her face, why would I want to waste precious time hanging out with some other kid?
Anybody who's been to Whitmore, can you explain why they'd send another kid to hang out w/ this family over the weekend and what would have happened to his chances of graduating the next week if anything but good things about the academy had been spoken of?
XXXXX made sure that he was in constant contact with Cheryl (not per our request) with him calling her every several hours to let her know where he was.
What's with that? Why would this kid feel compelled to check in w/ Cheryl while he's supposed to be off spending quality time w/ his parents?
No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats---approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
--Lazlo's Chinese Relativity Axiom:
-
Cheryl: http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/whi ... 41202.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/whitmorestmt041202.html)
Let me ask you one thing that kind of sums up my feelings???. If your child that is here with us were being abused, do you not think that it could not be kept a secret?
Freudian slip?Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams
-
hi this is chris, i posted awhile ago while still at whitmore. maybe i can clear up a few questions being brought up. About graduation... there really is no graduation. You stay for a period of one year, and then simply go home. Often times some kids parents cant make it... which is why other parents often invite other kids to come with them. i check back here every now and then so if i see questions i'll try to address them. I've been home since dec 22, and opted not to go back to whitmore till college. I stand by supporting the Sudweeks and hope that everything works out for them
-
Welcome back Chris---I wondered why you quit posting. Glad you are going to college and hope you do well. Hope you have caught up from sleep deprivation, have had some good home-cooked meals, have not witnessed any abuse, and will have your mind ready for higher-learning. Good luck!
-
Chris, why do YOU think the Sudweeks volunteered to give up their license to have any type of treatment facility at the Whitmore? That is what they have always said they are all about! You were there. You know that therapy a big part of the program. What can be done there without therapy to help those kids now? They need more than just school classes. And, Cheryl is not qualified, or even allowed now, to hold her little group therapy sessions. Looks like you got out of there in the nick of time. Get on with your life, and leave the Sudweeks to their attorneys. Hopefully your conscience will kick in and your support will swing over to your fellow student that you saw abused there.
-
i never saw anyone abused there, and I was there 24 hours a day. To be honest, they didnt really have many options as far as the license goes. I highly doubt anything will change as far as the structure of the groups, etc... They'll become 'meetings' and I think you'll still get what you pay for. I keep seeing all this talk of abuse. Who was abused? Name one person that Mark or Cheryl abused. Also, how can you prevent two kids in an open environment from fighting. Should a public high school be charged with child abuse each time a fight breaks out in the hallways? It is true that Casie punched Hannah in the face, it was a situation that occured, and we had group on Casie for it. Other then that, I dont see what all the fuss is about. ~ chris
-
Also as far as sleep goes... sleep was probably the only legitimate issue at whitmore. when the winter season started we were waking up at around 7:30 everyday, however, some of the girls decided they wanted to wake up at 4:30 to work out in the other building. (it had to be that early because they had to do it before the radio shack below the school room opened) After that the 430 thing just turned into an everyday thing. The sleep sucked, but I find it funny that each time Erica talks about these marathon groups, and believe me they did happn, she fails to tell you that if a group ever went to even midnight we'd sleep in the next day. EVERY time. i think thats a pretty big detail to leave out.
-
On 2005-01-22 09:46:00, Anonymous wrote: To be honest, they didnt really have many options as far as the license goes.
Explain please.
-
On 2005-01-21 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
You stay for a period of one year, and then simply go home.
Do Cheryl and Mark and/or the other kids have anything to say about it? Can a kid who just got there (during the first month or two when they're not permitted to talk to their parents) simply decide to leave and go?
Anybody else, Erica or Joyce, have any insight here?
Often times some kids parents cant make it... which is why other parents often invite other kids to come with them.
That just doesn't make any sense! I'm tellin' ya, if I hadn't seen my kid for 8 months and had limited contact with her, there's no way in hell I'd give up that rare few hours between travel and group activities to have some other kid hanging around. Especially when you consider the nature of the past 8 months. First WWASP then another transport to another very unusual "school"? No way in hell I'd stand for that.
Know what I think? I think it's very similar to the way they did it at The Seed and Straight. Whenever an out of town kid got to go home for the weekend for the first couple of times, they'd always send another kid on a higher phase for "moral support". I was an out of town kid, so I was very often the one to do that. It was not stated outright, but the new kid knew very, very well that I was watching and would report any misstep.
So what about the frequent calls to Cheryl that this mother talks about? Why in the world would this kid check in w/ Cheryl every few hours while he's supposed to be spending quality time w/ his parents after 8 months seperation? Does Cheryl not trust the parents? What? That just doesn't make any kind of sense.With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
-
Hello Everyone,
I have been watching and reading this site for the past week. As a parent of a teen who just recently returned from his stay at the Whitmore, I have so many mixed feelings and emotions. Perhaps it is time I express some of what I am feeling.
How can I put the past year's emotions into a few paragraphs? Even more how do I describe the past 18 years with my son? I can only try to relate the past year my son spent at The Whitmore.
There is a part of me that feels very committed to The Whitmore, the kids and the "program." There is also a part of me with lots of questions. I made several visits to the Whitmore during the year he was there. Each visit was filled with an array of emotion and experiences. Fear, sadness, desperation, relief, joy, sorrow, and unbelievable guilt among many others.
There is also a part of me looking for more answers to explain some behavior and emotion my son is experiencing after his return home. He won't elaborate on much. He just simply says "you have no idea what it was like, you will never understand." He won't really condemn the Whitmore or defend them either. Maybe in time he will open up. I admit I am not sure I am prepared for what he may tell me.
I can honestly say our first contact and visit to the Whitmore was extremely warm, loving and in a way a relief. As a desperate parent not knowing where else to turn, you just need to see some light at the end of the tunnel. The Whitmore seemed to offer that. Testimonials from the other kids and their support to "come and join" made it even easier to stomach. We were sold, the papers signed and off I went holding my breath and praying all the way home.
His first 3 months were a tough adjustment. He was a spoiled, only child now in a home full of 30-40 teens. Not to mention they were all just like him! Talk about looking in the mirror every day.
My first visit was for Christmas. Probably a mistake in retrospect. It was too soon. He had not adjusted yet and was still extremely manipulative. It was a huge learning experience for all needless to say.
The second visit was 5 months later. It was a success. We had the best time we had had in years. He seemed to be on his way back to the person he used to be. Full of plans for the future and ready to face the world.
In the months that followed he seemed to be back-sliding. No one really knew why. It simply became a countdown period for him until he came home. To this day we still don't understand what happened. Maybe he just became a great actor and knew how to play the game. Maybe not.
The last visit was parent's weekend and time to come home! A moment filled with great anticipation and expectations. Big mistake. He looked the worst he had in nearly a year. He was not the same kid I saw in May. No motivation or even expression. He blew his part in the parent's weekend celebration. We still don't know why. I don't think it was personal towards us, but more a reflection on how he was feeling about himself.
To put an even stranger twist on the weekend, he had completely turned on Cheryl. In the previous months they appeared to be extremely close. He was even called her "favorite" by the others. He showed intense hatred and anger towards her. He called her a liar and a thief among other things. We were all in shock. It continues to baffle us to this day.
Since his return home he has been doing great. He passed his GED with honors. Finishing school in Utah was quite the issue and remains a mystery. We still don't know exactly how many credits he "earned." We were told it was up to Cheryl and we would have to see what she decided. We just assumed credits were credits. We finally gave up on getting his credits and decided to go for the GED. Long story short, he is now enrolled in college and doing great!
In response to some questions that have been raised previously:
1) Someone asked why a parent would allow another kid in the program to share their time with their kid. I can give some insight on that. During all of my visits I became very close to several of the kids. Many had not seen their own parents for months. When a parent comes to visit it is a big deal. I knew my son had also grown very close to most of the others there. He in fact invited several to join us for breakfast or a shopping trip to Provo.
I think it was more a support system for my son. It was comforting to have his friends with him and he wanted them to get out and have fun away from the Whitmore. Each visit I grew fonder of the kids. They truly were an amazing group and I enjoyed any time I spent with them. Saying good bye was almost as difficult for me when my son came home as it was for him. You can't imagine the bond that develops between all of them.
2) Sleep deprevation? All I know is when my son returned home he slept 10-12 hours a day for weeks. He kept saying "you don't understand what it was like. We only got 3-5 hours of sleep a night for almost a year." I thought he was exaggerating until I found this site.
3) Group therapy? He has also commented on the marathon sessions until early morning hours. He denied getting to sleep in later the next morning.
4) Getting beat up? He says it happened, even to him. He won't say any more. In fact he rarely says much. It is not something he feels comfortable discussing yet. He has no reason to lie now, he is home and safe.
5) Therapy with the Therapist? There wasn't any family therapy for months until I demanded we get it. He says he only had a handfull of one on one sessions in the last couple of months of his stay. We paid a monthly fee for "treatment." His therapist is no longer there and won't return my emails.
6) Flushing toilets? He confirmed that they were not allowed to "flush" the tissue and were instructed to put it in the trash. The trash person got the lucky job of disposing it! The reason is due to the septic system and not wanting to clean it out is what they were told. Who knows....
I know there have been more questions, some I am sure I can shed light on. I have taken up way to much space, but somehow feel relieved. What do I really think about the past year? All I know is my son is home and doing great. He is responsible, loving and mature. Was it the Whitmore and the program or was it just a matter of waking up and deciding to make something of his life. I don't know for sure. All I know is he is finally on the right track.
Do I think some questionable things happened during his stay? Yes, I am certain they did. Am I willing to persue it and condemn Mark and Cheryl for abusing my child? I doubt it. I think I will choose to thank God everyday for the son I have and the life we now share together. Do I believe Mark and Cheryl care about the kids in their program? Yes I do. It takes special people to live the lives they lead no matter what amount of money they might make. I saw what their lives were like and the hell one child can put them through-mine did! I also shared hugs, tears, laughter and joy. We may never know the whole truth. The bottom line is my child was saved and I am truly at peace for the first time in 18 years. Can I put a price on that? No.
Thank you for the opportunity to express myself.
A Whitmore Alumni Mom
Ps...Hi to any Whitmore kids that may read this, we love and miss you! (Rob and Eddie especially)
-
Hello Whitmore Alumni Mom: I am so happy your son is home and safe, and that he passed his GED, and is doing well. I pray he will open up and talk about what happened to him at Whitmore. Please offer him REAL therapy, because he needs to talk about it. My daughter is home and safe now too. Your son was NOT sent there to be beat up! The Sudweeks signed a contract with you that you son would NEVER be physically punished in any way. Your son should have never have been beat up PERIOD! Believe me, his anger at Cheryl was deserved. My daughter was forced to beat up others---at Cheryl' direction, and her guilt today is overwhelming. Of course the therapist will not return your emails---he has "lawyer-up"too. The criminal investigation is still active. Those kids all lied to the police when they were questioned because they were TOLD to lie. Perhaps, now your son would like to tell the truth. It is not too late. Do no give the Sudweeks credit for your son's turn around. Your son most probably was helped by his fellow students, and by reaching inside himself, and by realizing how much his parents loved him. Good luck....and I'd NEVER refer to myself as a Whitmore Alumni mom. I am just a loving MOM.
-
Hello I have been reading the comments on this site for weeks now and it is yours that is now bringing me to speak out. I am a father who recently removed my child from Whitmore. I am so glad to hear that your son is now home and safe. I assure from what I now know he was not safe at Whitmore!
You said he called Cheryl a "liar and thief" and you said "the Sudweeks care about the kids". Well first your son is telling the truth about Cheryl she is a liar and a thief and much more!!
The contract you signed with the Sudweeks said they would not allow or inflict any physical punishment on any child. THIS IS A BOLD FACE LIE!! Your own son admits to being beat up and I now know of other children who were physically beat at the direction of Cheryl Sudweek.
The contract also said that the children at Whitmore will recieve an accredited approved education. Another lie they are not an accredied school they do not even have any certified teachers. Be very proud of your son that he passed that GED all on his own despite the set backs in his education inflicted on him by the Sudweeks!
The Sudweeks care about children? A REAL LIE!!! What caring adult sleep deprives a child and will not provide them with working plumbing? I will tell you why my child and your son were sleep deprived, FOR CONTROL!!! These people are cult leaders after our money only!!!
Therapy!!! The ultimate theft!! of course your son as my child got no therapy they really needed. Why? It cost money. at $100 per week for a real therapist that adds up to $5200 per year per child THAT IS OVER $200,000 per year for 40 kids!!!!
You say the Sudweeks care about kids? ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS YOUR MONEY AND LINING THEIR POCKETS!!!
I must admit I was desperate when I found the Witmore and bought in to their line of lies and deception as you did. My child is troubled and now is getting professional loving help at home despite what the Sudweeks did.
These people lie, all they have is a business liscense to run a bed and breakfast not any kind of school. They have been made by the State of Utah to give up their Theraputic School License.
These people abuse children!!! It sounds like your son was one of many beat and abused by them. My child has told of other children who suffered horrible physical abuse at the direction of Cheryl.
These people must be stopped NOW!!! There are 40 other children at risk of the Sudweeks. Please I beg you to call the authorities in Utah and report the abuses your son suffered. You need to call Mr. Jarred Eldridge the county attorney for Juab county who is in charge of a crimminal investigation against the Sudweeks, his phone number is 435-623-3460. Remember we are the lucky parents we have our children home and safe. We must do all we can to save the 40 other children at the Whitmore.
-
Alumni Mom: if you are who I think you are---your son was tormented by Cheryl because she was really mad because your son kept insisting that he get his full credits from Whitmore, and she knew that that school was not accredited and that his education was a farce. Also Cheryl got him really upset when he told her he wanted to go home in Jan so he could start college. She had group on him and humiliated him badly. She yelled and screamed and told him she had a contract until March and she was going to get her damn money or else. She didn't care about him, she just wanted the money. She was really mean to him, lots of times. She made the others beat him up to show him she meant business. Then he just quit doing his school work and he really changed from the good student and hard worker he was. Everyone really felt sorry for him.
-
On 1/22 Anon wrote: "they didn't have any options as far as the license went."
What does that mean?
Of course the had "Options." They were in a meeting with their own attorney, and represenatives from the Attorney General's office, the County Attorney's office, the Utah case worker....they could have fought to retain their license. Why just "surrender it" without a fight? Why would a totally innocent person just "surrender" a license that is required to do the great service that they claim they perform? How do they hope to run a treatment center without a license to offer "treatment." Merely RE-NAMING group sessions "meetings" is not the answer. Group sessions need to be run by a licensed mental health worker, not some raving woman with hopefully a high school education--Cheryl Sudweeks. Group sessions need to be SCHEDULED at a time of the day when students can THINK...not in the middle of the night, when the insomniac Cherly is roaming about the ole mansion. It is bad enough that these kids are awakened at 5 AM to listen to Cheryl's hour long brain-washing sublimals everyday. Give me a break!
-
I guess these are the answers I am hoping for. You have told me more in one paragraph than he has told me in months. I appreciate your information. Perhaps this will help open the door for my son to tell his story. Maybe some of you out there can help him to help others. I know there are some horrible secrets he is keeping. As far as him getting REAL therapy, he won't go within 100 miles of a therapist!! Can you blame him? I know there are others who know his secrets. I am sure he is keeping some of yours as well. Again, thank you.
-
Though I don't know the Sudweeks and I only know you folks who post here as well as your posts reflect, I feel obliged to repeat what is becoming a mantra for me.
On 2005-01-22 16:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
You say the Sudweeks care about kids? ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS YOUR MONEY AND LINING THEIR POCKETS!!!
No, I don't think it's the money. Over and over again you folks describe Cheryl controling these kids. She directs them to be hostile to whoever she's upset with, messes with their sleep, etc. Mark doesn't seem to play into it that much, at least he doesn't get much mention. Cheryl seems to be the one in charge.
At the end of the day, if you ever get a good look at finances, you'll probably find quite a chunk of change going to lawyers and politicians. At least that's the way it usually plays out. They might intend to make a pile of money off of this, but those nagging legal and regulatory problems seem to always eat into profits; hence the constant poor-mouthing to "keep the doors of this wonderful and vitally important place open!"
There are just much easier ways to get money if that's what you're really after. It takes a "special" kind of person to get into the business of group thought reform.
Alumni Mom, I think I understand why your son doesn't want to give you a lot of detail. He probably has a strong sense of fidelity to these people. Evidently, most of the kids who were at the movie theatre the night of the fight felt enough fidelity to Cheryl to give false police reports. And I don't doubt that that kind of fidelity alone is enough to get them to brutalize one kid or another as a group because, when I was living under similar conditions, I'd have done the same.
I agree w/ the Anon dad who posted. Groups like this can be very dangerous. The kids involved are likely very addled and confused and absolutely need your support to handle this bizarre situation. The fact is the fact, the program is evil, and every attempt to make
chicken salad out of chicken shit has resulted in a Chicken shit
sandwich, No pickle on the side could ever change that.
BINGO!
-
On 2005-01-22 09:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i never saw anyone abused there, and I was there 24 hours a day. To be honest, they didnt really have many options as far as the license goes. I highly doubt anything will change as far as the structure of the groups, etc... They'll become 'meetings' and I think you'll still get what you pay for. I keep seeing all this talk of abuse. Who was abused? Name one person that Mark or Cheryl abused. Also, how can you prevent two kids in an open environment from fighting. Should a public high school be charged with child abuse each time a fight breaks out in the hallways? It is true that Casie punched Hannah in the face, it was a situation that occured, and we had group on Casie for it. Other then that, I dont see what all the fuss is about. ~ chris"
Chris, you left immediately after Ms. Harris posted. Could you please respond to her post now?? http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... =210&Sort= (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=4457&forum=35&start=210&Sort=)
Posted: 2004-12-08 14:12:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My name is Joyce Harris and several parents called and referred me to this site since I have been discusssed several times. I picked up my daughterfrom Whitmore who is age 12 on Nov 27th. First, my husband and I were escourted by Officer Wright from Nephi Police Department, and since I have been represented as an abusive mother who threw her daughter down a fligt of stairs, hit her, and broke her fingers in a car door---anyone is welcome to call this officer and verify that is is a LIE. I was forced to try and locate my daughter's clothes in the dark, while being yelled at by unruly girls. There were only 2 girls sleeping in my daughter's room when we arrived at 2:30 AM, and there was a group of other girls awake in the room across the hall. This surprised me because I was told that Whitemore had a strick bedtime schedule. The kids who are "reporting" and spreading lies about me were NOT present when I came to pick up my daughter---Chris, Mackey, Caitlyn were not there---so they are just repeating untruths that were told to them. Also: I have never been report the Child Protective Services for abuse EVER. This too is a lie, and can be checked by anyone who cares to do so. I have never been fired from a teaching job ever, and this can be verified also, by anyone who cares to check it out. I can stand up to any scruity on my record with any agency that wants to verify any records that have anything to do with any alledged abuse against me, or any employment history I have. I have nothing to hide. If Mr. and Mr. Sudweeks have any problems with me withdrawing my daughter from their school amid charges of child abuse, then they need to contact me directly and not manipulate children to spread malicious lies. I have only responded to a personal email that Chris sent me, and that was to relay a message to my daughter that he and another student asked to say hello to her. I was happy to do that because I respected his seemingly sincerity. We had the right as parents to bring out daughter home. We were not even called by the police or the CPS in Utah about the incident at Whitmore. A mother of a student there called our home. So NO ONE from the authorities in Utah talked us into removing our daughter. And the statement that the 3 students who left Whitmore were all drug addicts is another LIE...our daughter has NEVER used any drugs. Telling lies about students who left does nothing to help solve the issues there at all. We are not accusing any students who stayed there of being horrible, or drug addicts, so why attack our little girl? She did nothing wrong. No one there even know where I teach school, so how could you possible know what my superintendent did or did not do. Why all the lies about me, a mother? I did not use a loud voice to wake up anyone...all those kids were up and about already. Why? I have no idea, and I certainly didn't just use my imagination to make up lies to try and explain it. Maybe it was a simple slumber party. You people are just making a very bad situation worse by slandering people. I would think you have enough to deal with as it is without writing lies about someone. I would suggest that you stop. You have absolutly nothing to gain by slandering me, and by using kids to do this. Remember it can be proved very very eaisly exactly where things are entered from a computer. Anyone can sign someone eleses name to comments. I honestly wonder if Chris, Mackey, Caitlyn really made these remarks about me or if some other person too gutless to use their real name is slandering me. I would strongly suggest you stop now. Joyce Harris
I have one other thing to say:
I will not respond to any other postings about me on this site.
It would serve no purpose. We made the decision to remove our daughter. We will trust the authorities in Utah to continue their investigation, to questions witnesses, and to do what is right for a group of kids that need to be protected. I know that I respect social worker, and police officials. I also respect children and their parents.
I do know what I know. I know that many misrepresentations have been made on this site. Our contract reads on page 13 that Cheryl Sudweeks "attended some classes at BYU." That hardly gives her a degree from BYU as stated on this site.
I KNOW that we were told that the group sessions would be lead by a licensed therapist, and they were not. They were led by Cheryl Sudweeks, who is a high school graduate.
I know that we were told that our daughter would be properly supervised at all times. We do not consider proper supervision to be that of other student. Our daughter was left supervised by another student, when the group went to Provo. This was an underage student....and he is a student there with his own problems, and is not qualified to be in charge of other students.
I know that my daughter is a minority, Hungarian Gypsy and that I never expected the owner Cheryl Sudweeks to call my daugher a "Sand Nigger," especially in the today's climate when many people hate terriorists that are referred to that horrendous term.
I know that I never expected my daughter to be exposed to illness by having to dispose of toliet tissue in an un-lined trash can because putting toliet tissue in the commodes would cause them to back up and overflow. The trash can in her bath room and others would be filled with toliet tissue covered with urine, fecus, and often blood, and would remain there until the young boy (whose job it was to empty these trash cans) came to empty them.
I know my daughter, who has never had a physical fight in her life, was forced to participate in punishing---hitting, punching, kicking---another student at the direction of Cheryl Sudweeks. This is depolorable!
So no one needs to try and point out lies about me throwing anyone down a stair case when a police offier was standing at this stair case and know this is a LIE.
Whoever is writing LIES about me needs to be spending time praying for their own forgiveness, and trying to clean up that filty mansion, and trying to explain their OWN ABUSIVE BEHAVIORS.
Joyce Harris
-
Dear Whitmore Alumni Mom:
I am the father who wrote the earlier reply. I want you to know you do not need to worry about your son speaking to the authories about the abuse and beatings he suffered at the Whitmore. The police do not want to prosceute children they realize it is the adults who made the children committ these horrible acts. My own child was made to beat another at Whitmore. The full story has been told to the police in Utah and my child is immune from any prosceution.
I realize it may be difficult for your son to open up about the beatings he suffered. I believe I know from speaking with my own child who your son is. I suggest you ask him about the constant humiliation he suffered at Lake Powell in October. Also I suggest you ask him to tell you the complete truth about the abuse and beatings Joey suffered, and why he lied to the police about Joey to cover for the Sudweeks.
Again I am so glad to hear your son is home and safe, but please we have an obligation to help save the 40 kids still at the Whitmore and save any other desperate parents.
Please contact Mr. Jarred Eldridge.
-
I lived at the whitmore for a year. Sure there were some things there that werent right.I wouldnt go as far as to say kids got beat. The kids had no scars on them from it and there was no blood. how is that beat? not trying to be offensive but the bottom line is a lot of kids are just pussies that cry about every little thing that happens to them that they dont like. A lot of the kids there(not saying all) are to over protected and when they get a scratch they cry to mommy. I saw everything that happened in group when i lived there. I didnt agree with all of the things that went on but then again who does? some of the posts on here r true and others r lies. But nobodys kid is in danger for their life. bottom line is no one is gonna agree totally with the whitmore and this argument could go on forever. If a lot of the kids werent such pussies there would not be all this controversy. i will agree in that a few are justified
-
Antigen: Don't think Mark Sudweeks is the "good guy" in this mess. He is just more in control of himself and does not come off as a raving maniac as Cheryl Sudweeks does. He walks around naked with only a towel in front of those kids. HE has his own agenda and Cheryl is his little "recruiter" to meet his sick needs and wants. He flaunts his toys--boats, cycles,etc to entice these kids. Every once in awhile he will step in when the beatings get out of control and say "that's enough Cheryl." And let's not forget he did plead guilty to animal abuse in Canada and paid a $124,000 fine! This is not a kind man. They have an 11 year son who lives in the mess too. NOw what kind of parents raise their own child in a mess like this? To hear some of these parents talk, "loving, Christian, caring people." I THINK NOT! The kids under their care are not being educated. They are not getting proper therapy. And they are being mistreated. I know because my child tells me about what went on there. And it was terrible. Mark puts on a better face, and have a few more social graces than his wife---but he is just as much to blame as she is. He just has the gift of gab. The money deal: Hell they have to make a lot of money----you are right. Seems like they are constantly paying lawyers! And let's not forget. They ram that church down the kids throats too. Surely they are paying their 10% tithes!
-
Anon: you said "some things weren't right" what do you think was not "right?" Your parents had a contract with the Sudweeks that no physical punsishment whatsoever would be used against you kids. Don't you think they should have kept their word??????
Being hit is not acceptable at all. Just what makes a kid a "pussie" who cries when people who are suppose to be his friends hit on him just because Cheryl tells them to? What makes that OK?
People can be beat to death and NOT have blood flowing out of them. They could be bleeding internally. YOU are not a doctor. You do not know how injured a kid is who is being beat up by 5 or 6 kids at one time.
And there is mental and emotional damage being inflict too. Don't forget about that.
You are not there any longer. Tell us what you know that went on that you now know was not right.
You have a MOM on this site now who is trying to help her son, and she needs to know what happened to her son. Help her to understand what happened to him there. He is afraid to confide in her. Do the right thing, and quit covering for the Sudweeks. You don't owe them shit!
-
My son was not at the whitmore during the "movie incident" or for the incident that involved the boy who was beaten and went to the police. Thank God. He was at Lake Powell, but not this past fall.
I think the reason he choses to not talk about much is his desire to move on. He is putting all his effort into his future and not dwelling on the past. Ironically, the kids involved in the "toughen him up" session became his best friends. He holds no grudges and loves them unconditionally. This is where it all becomes complicated and twisted. So in a way they probably are protecting each other.
I am only interested in taking things further if he is. At one point I asked him specifally if he wanted to report what he knew. His response was "What good would it do?" We talked about that further and I think he feels he might not be believed. On a rare occasion he will start to open up, but will stop when things become too much to remember.
I am taking a risk with him by even being on this site. He doesn't know I have posted, only discoverd the site. If he still makes visits here he will surely know it is me. My only motive is to understand him better since he has been home. Let's just say my understanding of his behavior has increased since finding this site. This whole experience is a very delicate subject and I am treading lightly. Let's just say I am collecting data and deciding what to do with it.
Thanks again for all the responses. It has helped more than you can know.
Whitmore Alumni Mom(used as reference only)-and a very loving Mom!
-
Alumni Mom: I thought I knew your son, but I was talking about a boy I knew who just left in Jan. BUT isn't it amazing how similar all the stories are? I am glad your son was not there to witness even more horrid stuff. But if your son was at Lake Powell, HE DID WITNESS THE ABUSE of Joey, the boy who went to the police, because his abuse began at Lake Powell. Cheryl Sudweeks singled this boy out for abuse the day Mark delivered him to Lake Powell. It began that day and it never stopped! What happened to this boy at Lake Powell is abuse your son could not forget even if he wanted to.
-
Chris: when you come back on line I have a question.
Where did you received your training to be a School Registrar at Whitmore.
I understand that the kept up with the students'credits, and advised them which classes they needed to take to graduate etc.
This seems like a very important job.
Were you trained at home prior to placement, or were you trained at Ivy Ridge, or did your merely received on-the-job-training from Cheryl Sudweeks?
-
On 2005-01-23 11:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Alumni Mom: I thought I knew your son, but I was talking about a boy I knew who just left in Jan. BUT isn't it amazing how similar all the stories are? I am glad your son was not there to witness even more horrid stuff. But if your son was at Lake Powell, HE DID WITNESS THE ABUSE of Joey, the boy who went to the police, because his abuse began at Lake Powell. Cheryl Sudweeks singled this boy out for abuse the day Mark delivered him to Lake Powell. It began that day and it never stopped! What happened to this boy at Lake Powell is abuse your son could not forget even if he wanted to."
My son was at Powell in the fall of 2003 the first week he arrived. He left before the Powell trip in 2004. He wouldn't be able to help Joey in regards to Powell last fall. I am fairly certain my son did not meet Joey. When my son learned of what happened to Joey he said he hadn't met him. I know giving my son's name would be helpful for anyone wishing to help me, but I wish to protect his identity for many reasons.
-
i know who your son is anon mom. the whole time he spent there i pretty much did 2. Dont believe everything being said on this website because it truly is lies for the most part. just kids trying to cause trouble. i got in trouble with your son on more than one occasion back when we were new but we never really got abused. here and there some kids would get out of control a bit when emotions ran high but thats about it. i was good friends with your son and im glad he's doing well. As far as the things being said on this website it's just a bunch of teen kids looking for trouble by blowing stuff out of proportion.
-
Chris, what about you keeping up with the credits for the kids at Whitmore? How did you get to do that job? I'd like to know that too.
And, why were there so many groups on you about you downloading music on your computer. Man, you'd really get mad at Cheryl about that. Why didn't she want you to listen to anything but Country-Western? Why couldn't you kids just listen to your own music? Nothing's more depression than a bunch of CW shit.
-
To Alumni MOM: What is the deal? You started out your letter stating your son "recently returned home...and talking about the past year's events."
Then when the other parents started asking you questions, all of a sudden your kid was at Whitmore way back in the Summer of 2003.
LOOK, no one is going to make your kid talk to the cops. No one is going to make you say anything you don't want to say. You can stay committed to the Whitmore and the "program" all you want to. BUT, let's stay honest here, ok?
I know exactly who your son is, and I know exactly what he knows, and exactly what happened to him, and exactly who beat the shit out of him, and exactly why he got shit for an education at Whitmore. And that's why he will have a GED attached to him the rest of his life, and not a high school dipolma, and that's ok! He's a smart guy, and he passed the GED test. He begged to be given the right courses at Whitmore so he COULD graduate, but Lady, there is nothing to graduate FROM at Whitmore. Because there are no classes, there are no real teachers, there is no academic program. It is a bunch of "kids teaching kids" or "kids teaching themselvs." You were fed a bunch of lies, and that is what you paid for---NOTHING!
But, don't give a bunch of false dates, just so you feel like your identity can't be disclosed. No one is interested in pointing out who you are or who your son is. All we are trying to do here is find our what happened at that place and why.
No one wants your son, or mine, or anyone eles's to be hurt or humiliated or to be forced to do anything ever again against their will. They had enough of that at Whitmore and from the Sudweeks. But don't be a bullshiter either.
-
On 2005-01-24 10:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To Alumni MOM: What is the deal? You started out your letter stating your son "recently returned home...and talking about the past year's events."
Then when the other parents started asking you questions, all of a sudden your kid was at Whitmore way back in the Summer of 2003.
Actually, she said he WENT there in 2003 and returned home in the fall of 2004....fairly recent to me.
But don't be a bullshiter either.
There's no need for that.
Mom....don't worry about this. You don't have to give your name. The majority of us understand how difficult of a situation this is. It's going to take your son some time to process all of this. It's definitely a lot to deal with. Do it at your own, and his pace. We'll be here if and when you're ready. Best of luck!!!!
-
hey erica,
i helped out with files... no license or credentials of any kind were needed i also told other kids what courses i'd be taking if i were them.. but wait? i thought there was no education at whitmore. As far as music goes, she never gave me trouble about that. We had group on other people having rap and stuff like that. I kept my music till the day I left. After redownloading everything she never asked me to delete it again. Honestly, why does this matter to you anyway. What point are you trying to make?
-
Also, the real reason erica is so bitter to cheryl is because she was caught masturbating in the kitchen while preparing our food her last week. Thanks for that doll.
-
Hey Chris---so now you're a school counselor too. MY, my you sure had some important jobs there at Whitmore didn't you, young man. And BTW, I am not Erica, whoever that is.
-
Chris---don't get so angry. Just asked a question about the country western music. Everybody knows that teenagers have their OWN MUSIC. Why the control over what kind of music you kids want to listen to? I think the operative word is CONTROL. I listen to CW, and it is depressive, has some really down-beat story lines etc. Why not let kids be kids and listen to their own stuff? Granted a lot of rapp has some bad language, but Cherly Sudweeks cusses like a sailor herself, so she certainly couldn't be offended by a few "fucks" "bitches" and so forth. Why all the control? And, be honest, she had group on you about your music. She couldn't stand your defiance about that.
-
Erica: please disregard that crude remark about the kitchen.
Anon who made that irresponsible, and probably untrue remark. This is one of your former fellow-classmates-- how can you show such disrepect and lack of feelings as to attack someone like that? You need to learn now early in life to not refer to females as "doll." That type of verbage will not get you far in life.
We hear students remarking about: unconditional love, and the sense of FAMILY at Whitmore. What type of a loving family attacks one of its family members like this?
The important issue here, as always....where was a reponsible adult? Do kids just cook meals alone at Whitmore? Is there no dietian there? Is there no adult in charge anywhere at this place? Is there never any adult supervision ever? That is the important issue. Where was Mark? Where was Cheryl?
-
this is chris again i want to make sure everyone here knows that i in no way support programs. some of my other posts made me think iwas coming off that way. to be entirely honest, i think its unhealthy to pay someone else to raise your kid. if you cant deal with it then so be it. the only reason i post here is because i hate it when people lie, complain, and exagerrate. it started off with exageration and now its just out right lies. You make it sound like everyone at the whitmore is cheryl's mercenary waiting for her next order. she's not like that at all. i personally think shes very understanding. its funny you bring the music up, toward the last part of my stay she outright let me have it because i talked to her one on one about it and i was pretty much allowed to use aim and email for what i needed. the bottom line is is that the cheryl sudweeks i know is nothing like the cheryl sudweeks thats being protrayed here on these msg boards. theres really nothing more i can do anyways, im no longer there and i've started my life. and to be entirely honest, at the end it all comes down to you and what you to choose to do. for instance, i still do a lot of the things i used to do. thats not because of how the program is, but its down to me. i think im doing fine for myself, so i really dont think theres anything wrong with having fun. also i would never send my kid to any program, not even whitmore because i think not dealing with it yourself only makes it worse. thats all ive really got to say about that
-
yeah...uuh. Chris, i haven't been on this fora for a while , maybe like two weeks. This is erica by the way and it's good to here that you're doing well. I don't see why u had to make that nasty remark about me in the kitchen though, when that's not even true. Or maybe someone else posted it. Who knows.
By the way, I have nothing against you. Holding grudges has never got me n e where in my life, so why start now? I considered you one of my friends at the Whitmore and enjoyed your company. And i accept the fact that obviously our opinions greatly differ on the issue of the Whitmore. I won't argue or throw insults, however i will discuss things with u if you'd like.
I also have not been the one mentioning to you about ur music or school files or whutever at the Whitmore, i don't have any reason too. I haven't posted anything to you yet, except for this message.
I'm hoping for a friendly reply. :???:
-
On 2005-01-24 17:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
its funny you bring the music up, toward the last part of my stay she outright let me have it because i talked to her one on one about it and i was pretty much allowed to use aim and email for what i needed. the bottom line is is that the cheryl sudweeks i know is nothing like the cheryl sudweeks thats being protrayed here on these msg boards.
Chris, I think you're a decent and intelligent kid. I also think the Cheryl Sudweeks that's being portrayed here is the type of person who has you convinced that it's fittin' and proper for you to have to beg and take a lot of shit just to be allowed to listen to music or to communicate w/ friends.
I had a similar conversation w/ my daughter a couple of years ago. She had run away to live w/ her boyfriend just two blocks away from our house. She missed us, especially her baby sister, and wanted to come visit, maybe have dinner... something! We hadn't heard from her in weeks, we were all for it. In fact she was sneaking to make this phone call so that he wouldn't "get in a bad mood". And she tried to explain to me how she really could do whatever she wanted, but she just didn't want to see her sister or talk to her former best friend or anything because it just wasn't worth his reaction.
It took her awhile, and a lot more of this kind of control, before she started seriously questioning why in thee hell she should even be asking this psycho for permission to go hang out w/ her family for an afternoon or go to the beach w/ her (once) best friend.
But she did figure it out eventually. And I hope you do too.Black markets will always be with us. But they will recede in importance when our public morality is consistent with our private one.
Eric Schlosser, Reefer Madness
-
hi, im a kid that was previously at the whitmore about a year ago. if anything please send your child there. it is the best thing for them. Iput my parents through hell and back... i was heavily into many different drugs, i was a runaway, dropped out of school, fought cops u name it i have done it. If i kept going on the road i was on i would have been dead by now. my parents were very scared for me and had to take action. so they found the whitmore. as i said i have been out of the whitmore for nearly a year and have stablized a relationship with my parents, and brothers and my family is very proud of me. i have stayed clean ever since i left. i am now in school and am trying to lead a normal teenage life. if u have any questions you can email me at [email protected]
-
On 2005-01-23 19:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i know who your son is anon mom. the whole time he spent there i pretty much did 2. Dont believe everything being said on this website because it truly is lies for the most part. just kids trying to cause trouble. i got in trouble with your son on more than one occasion back when we were new but we never really got abused. here and there some kids would get out of control a bit when emotions ran high but thats about it. i was good friends with your son and im glad he's doing well. As far as the things being said on this website it's just a bunch of teen kids looking
for trouble by blowing stuff out of proportion."
Do you think the parents on this website are lying as well? and my son too? I don't have all the details, but enough to know he is not lying about what he has shared. You say that no one "really" got abused. That seems like you were questioning it to me or that you aren't quite sure if it would be considered abuse. Can you expand on what happened when things got out of control? During those times, do you think the parents of the kids involved would approve of what was being done to their child? Especially when tha parent spent the amount of money they did to make sure their child was safe and well cared for? Just out of curiosity, did I meet you during one of my visits? Lastly, are you still there or are you now home?
Thank you for your reply, I appreciate what you had to say. I hope things are going well for you too. Take care.
-
On 2005-01-24 10:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To Alumni MOM: What is the deal? You started out your letter stating your son "recently returned home...and talking about the past year's events."
Then when the other parents started asking you questions, all of a sudden your kid was at Whitmore way back in the Summer of 2003.
LOOK, no one is going to make your kid talk to the cops. No one is going to make you say anything you don't want to say. You can stay committed to the Whitmore and the "program" all you want to. BUT, let's stay honest here, ok?
I know exactly who your son is, and I know exactly what he knows, and exactly what happened to him, and exactly who beat the shit out of him, and exactly why he got shit for an education at Whitmore. And that's why he will have a GED attached to him the rest of his life, and not a high school dipolma, and that's ok! He's a smart guy, and he passed the GED test. He begged to be given the right courses at Whitmore so he COULD graduate, but Lady, there is nothing to graduate FROM at Whitmore. Because there are no classes, there are no real teachers, there is no academic program. It is a bunch of "kids teaching kids" or "kids teaching themselvs." You were fed a bunch of lies, and that is what you paid for---NOTHING!
But, don't give a bunch of false dates, just so you feel like your identity can't be disclosed. No one is interested in pointing out who you are or who your son is. All we are trying to do here is find our what happened at that place and why.
No one wants your son, or mine, or anyone eles's to be hurt or humiliated or to be forced to do anything ever again against their will. They had enough of that at Whitmore and from the Sudweeks. But don't be a bullshiter either.
"
If you go back and read carefully, you will see the dates given. Read very carefully. Make no mistake, I am no bullshiter. I did not give up my entire retirement and savings to send my child away for 1 year just to bullshit. If you want to work with me great, if not at least get your facts straight first. So out of curiosity, are you a past/present student or parent? You mentioned that "no one wants my son or yours or anyone elses to get hurt" ect... Please clarify so I don't misunderstand and go in the wrong direction. IF you have all this information regarding my son, and you seem to have an attitude towards the Whitmore are you willing to give more details?
-
why do all you "parents" post as anonymous? that pretty much goes for everyone as well. you guys must be scared of something
-
why do all you guys continue to discuss how bad the whitmore is? clearly it's not getting anyone anywhere and this topic could go on forever. let's all mature a little bit and go from there
-
It seems funny to me when anonymous posters complain about people who post anonymously :smile:. Always was a fan of the ironic.
-
On 2005-01-25 21:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"why do all you guys continue to discuss how bad the whitmore is? clearly it's not getting anyone anywhere and this topic could go on forever. let's all mature a little bit and go from there"
I dont know, I have gotten a fair amount of clarity and information from this discussion. I have seen everything from what is probably lies to what is probably the truth. When one looks at what is at stake from BOTH sides of this issue, I think this conversation is not without its merit. I appreciate the discussion very much.
-
i only post anonymous because im not positive in some of the stuff i say. they sure seem to be
-
by the way this conversation is shit so dont be so moronic
-
Is that is an example of the maturity you were saying we should have earlier?
-
Chris: glad to see that you don't think a place like Whitmore would be a place you'd want your own kid. Also glad you were not on the "receiving end of Cheryl Sudweek's wrath," so you can retain your positive feelings for her. Take care of yourself, and try to have good clean fun at college, and do well.
-
To the former student: you stated that you had a history of being violent with police officers. Well, the contract we signed with the Sudweeks clearly stated that the Whitmore Academy did not accept any students with any history of violence. Did your parents lie to the Sudweeks about your background in order to get you accepted into the Whitmore?
-
You asked why the parents post "anonymously," well some of our kids may have to be a witness when the on-going criminal investigation wraps up and the Sudweeks go to trial. It is as simple as that. It is not a matter of being scared.
-
Dear Alumn Mom: I totally misread the dates. When you said your son "recently came home...and later said your son was only at Lake Powell in 2003....I MISTAKENLY put it all together incorrectly as not being "recently." I am very sorry for my unkind words. You as a Mom most certainly did not need me to be unkind to you. I just brought my child home in Nov 2004, and have emotions running way too high---and felt wrongly that you were distancing yourself from the current problem of alleged abuse, and just did not want to become involved. I was wrong, and I do apologize. Please do not let my unkind words make you stop talking and expressing your views.
-
Mom who responded---my child has told me too that kids did "really get abused at Whitmore." Having 5-6 boys gang up on one kid and beat him up, including kicking him is "really being abused." Having one girl fist fight a girl, and black her eye, is "really abuse." Being slapped across the face is "really abuse." These are just a few examples. The emotional abuse was terrible too: Having personal emails from home read aloud in "group" to humilate the kids is WRONG! Telling the kids in "group" that their family hates them and approves of the abuse is WRONG! Monitoring telephone calls by listening in on a extension is demeaning to the kids. Withholding their emails is WRONG! This is all a form of abuse and control. Depriving kids of sleep night after night after night is abuse. Inadequate food for growing teens is abuse. Inadequate heat to save money is abuse. Rules about not speaking to new students is abuse. I have heard so much about abuse at Whitmore, that I am surprised my child is not filled with hatred for being placed at Whitmore. How do we as parents ever expain---"We thought we were doing the right thing." How very wrong we were.
-
thank you for the reply about y parents post anonymously. thats all i wanted to know
-
On 2005-01-26 13:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Dear Alumn Mom: I totally misread the dates. When you said your son "recently came home...and later said your son was only at Lake Powell in 2003....I MISTAKENLY put it all together incorrectly as not being "recently." I am very sorry for my unkind words. You as a Mom most certainly did not need me to be unkind to you. I just brought my child home in Nov 2004, and have emotions running way too high---and felt wrongly that you were distancing yourself from the current problem of alleged abuse, and just did not want to become involved. I was wrong, and I do apologize. Please do not let my unkind words make you stop talking and expressing your views."
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: The clergy know that I know that they know that they do not know.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
-
On 2005-01-26 13:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Dear Alumn Mom: I totally misread the dates. When you said your son "recently came home...and later said your son was only at Lake Powell in 2003....I MISTAKENLY put it all together incorrectly as not being "recently." I am very sorry for my unkind words. You as a Mom most certainly did not need me to be unkind to you. I just brought my child home in Nov 2004, and have emotions running way too high---and felt wrongly that you were distancing yourself from the current problem of alleged abuse, and just did not want to become involved. I was wrong, and I do apologize. Please do not let my unkind words make you stop talking and expressing your views."
Apology accepted. We all have a lot of issues we are dealing with, kids and parents alike. I certainly understand emotions running high. The guilt we felt leaving our children half way across the country was overwhelming by itself. Now we are compounding the added guilt with "making a mistake." Although a part of you just wants to pick up the pieces and move on, another part of you needs answers about what really happened. It is a whole new set of issues and emotions. You felt great anicipation and excitement when it was time for them to come home. You see the "changed person" but know there is something more going on inside of them. You see new behaviors that just don't seem quite right. (fear of next meal, seeing every comment as a verbal attack or criticism, freaking out if you cut them off mid-sentence, wearing the same clothes days on end, sleeping with every blanket in the house......too many to mention) Am I stiking a cord with any other parents out there? Fortunately after reading most of these responses I am starting to understand and not react or take things personally. I now know he is reacting to months of ridicule and humiliation. As parents we can only try to understand who they are now and love and support them with everything we have in us.
For those of you who think we are beating a dead horse, skip our responses or go to a different topic. The topic listed IS "The Whitmore." Unfortunately, there seem to be more issues arising daily and more PARENTS speaking up. I shudder to think what may lie ahead and what might be revealed. I am still waiting for more teens, now home, to share their stories. Personally, this information is invaluable.
Alum Mom-(guess that is my new shorter name:)
-
honestly lots of things happened at the whitmore that werent right. but dwelling on this subject is not really gonna change a thing. some people are happy with the whitmore and others are not. im not for the whitmore nor am i against it. theres simply no sense in dwelling on it. maybe your kids did get humilated or verbally attacked or whatever but there alive. the whitmore and cheryl did do some things that arent right but you guys talk like the whitmore is hell. it can be bad for some people but not nearly as bad as it is getting mad out to be. sure your kids got humilated sometimes and verbally attacked but you cant change what happened so just move on instead of remaining stuck. but i guess it doesnt matter what you say because im sure soon enough what i say is gonna be contradicted all over again.
-
I have a question for one of the "students" If for example, one of the kids talks on the phone to a parent and talks too much about their former school and former friends...and are punished by having to wear "the clothes," what does this mean? What are "the clothes?"
-
Of course I should have added: Why are teenager's private phone calls home to their parents "monitored and listened in on extensions by the Sudweeks to begin with." We were never told that if the Sudweeks disapproved of the private conversation between student and parents that the student would be forbidden to talk on the phone to the parents for a certain length of time, and could only write "approved letters home while wearing THE CLOTHES." What is this all about?
-
To the former student of Whitmore, you have posted before that "things happened at the Whitmore that weren't right. From your point of view what "things were not right?" Explain.
Yes, our kids are home and are alive---but we sent our kids to the Whitmore in good faith that they would be educated, safe, not physically harmed, not emotionally damaged, and not humiliated. We were promised and believed that they would be in a loving, Christian atmosphere, with professional therapy and an accredited academic program. We paid for and expected more than having a child returen who is merely ALIVE.
-
what has happened has happened and no one can change that. im sure you have broken promises yourself. stop dwelling on it.
-
LIFE IS UNFAIR SO DEAL WITH IT
-
On 2005-01-27 00:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"LIFE IS UNFAIR SO DEAL WITH IT"
Ya'll deserve better than that. And so do the kids who's parents might consider sending them off to the Sudweeks. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
-
Some parent's are grateful their children make it home alive. Maybe that is why they sent them there in the first place, to save their lives. Could it be the education they get is how to deal with conflicts, express their emotions and live life day to day without relying on drugs. Maybe they learn how to earn thier keep by taking on responsibility since alot of these kids never cooperated at home. Maybe they learn to be accountable for their words and actions. Could it be that something happened in their past that they had to bury and finally this is exposed. Maybe it is part of the process of healing.
Helping your kid adjust and move on should be your focus now, not searching reasons to blame others or the whitmore. You didn't send her there because everything was perfect in her life.
-
A few weeks ago there was a reference to Mark Sudweeks pleading guilty to animal abuse charges up in Canada at Chilanko Lodge---and it was said something to the effect: Oh, Mark didn't do anything wrong; some guy up there was suppose to feed the horses and dogs and Mark just got into trouble for no good reason.
I took the trouble to do some research.
Mark Sudweeks had a trial and was found GUILTY.
Mark Sudweeks also went back to court on "appeal" and LOST A SECOND TIME!
Mr. Sudweeks had his DAY IN COURT Twice, and both times he lost. This was not a "misunderstandig." He is never again allowed to own an animal in Canada. He was fined well over $100,000. And he was GUILTY!
The "guy up there" who was suppose to feed the horse and dogs---was actually The Sudweeks former foster son of many years.,,,not just some "guy who lived up in Canada." Mark Sudweeks left those horses and dogs UNATTENDED, knowing this foster son would not be going up to Canada for weeks to look after them.
Another thing: in court testimony Mark Sudweeks tried to place the blame on his own daughters, claiming these young women in their 20's at the time, were the owners of the horses, and not himself.
What type of man would blame his foster son, and his own daughters to try and escape reponsibility for his own criminal neglect of helpless animals?
The Sudweeks advertise that they have a school at the location in Canada. That is not true advertisement. At best, they have only take students there for "retreats." This is just a part of their glossy brouchures to lure parents into registering their kids at Whitmore.
The Sudweeks' representation that they have been in the SCHOOL TREATMENT BUSINESS FOR 25+ years is also false....they may have had kids in their possession for money, but for years it was simply as foster parents....not running a "school" as they represent.
Don't take my word for any of this---read the trial transcript for yourself:
htt://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL-S ... dweeks.htm (http://htt://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL-SEIZURES/Regina-v.Sudweeks.htm)
-
On 2005-01-27 14:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Some parent's are grateful their children make it home alive. Maybe that is why they sent them there in the first place, to save their lives.
Parents send their kids to these programs for a lot of different reasons. Some don't think their kids' lives are in danger at all, but just that they don't like their behavior or they're convinced that the kid needs some treatment or help that the program can provide.
Regardless of the specific reasons, though. Don't you think these parents have a right to know the truth about how these places go about delivering on whatever they promise? I don't remember anywhere on the whoamidiscovery.com web page where it said "Hey, at least we'll send the kid back to you still breathing." And I doubt very seriously that that's what they told any parent who's been forking over $4k/mo.
Helping your kid adjust and move on should be your focus now, not searching reasons to blame others or the whitmore. You didn't send her there because everything was perfect in her life. "
You have NO clue why this person sent their kid.Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams
-
humiliating really old holey clothes that are usually a hot pink or bright green, they are usually made to wear them for a couple of weeks, and with doing yard work or hauling hay they get real dirty after the second day, they are never washed either.
-
On 2005-01-21 17:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Chris, why do YOU think the Sudweeks volunteered to give up their license to have any type of treatment facility at the Whitmore? That is what they have always said they are all about! You were there. You know that therapy a big part of the program. What can be done there without therapy to help those kids now? They need more than just school classes. And, Cheryl is not qualified, or even allowed now, to hold her little group therapy sessions. Looks like you got out of there in the nick of time. Get on with your life, and leave the Sudweeks to their attorneys. Hopefully your conscience will kick in and your support will swing over to your fellow student that you saw abused there."
hi i used to go to the whitmore and i recently spoke the samantha hayes, the reporter for channel5 with the report on the whitmore, i told her my story and she told me that the Sudweeks didnt voulentarily give up their license, it was taken away from them.
-
Thank you for explaining about "the clothes." And THAT was the way Mrs. Cheryl Sudweeks made this girl dress until she wrote what was considered the "proper letter home to her mother" as punishment for talking about her old school and old friends back on on the telephone to her Mom. How disgusting and humiliating!
-
Anon: no one is blaming Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks for the problems our kids had, or for the reasons they were placed in a private treatment school to begin with. But, we are saying not one parent EVER believed we were sending a child to the Whitmore to be physically abused, to have their communication with their parents withheld or monitored, or to be publicly humiliated in any fashion,to be sleep deprived on a continual basis, to sleep on beds without any linens, to have their showers timed to two short minutes, to have their private journal entries read aloud in group sessions, to be denied the PROMISED academic education taught by qualified teachers, to have privated and group theapy from a licensed, professional therapist, NOT some raving unqualifed, self-assigned woman, Cheryl Sudweeks. Parents were promised and paid for professional therapists, certified teachers, clean quarters, adequate and wholesome food---and a safe, caring, atmosphere for our kids. And our kids DERSERVED it.
-
Can the parents take any legal action against the Sudweeks? It almost seems like it could be a class action suit. That is , if you could get many parents to go for it. Are any parents considering taking them to court? I'm not sure it would be worth it. Any thoughts?
-
This is something that has been on my mind for several months. There are numerous reasons, mainly, 75% of the things that were supposed to take place did not. For example, weekly counseling, spending a few months in Canada and a few months in Mexico -- never happened -- just for starters. Anyone interested in pursuing a Class Action suit sign in please. If there is enough response, I will contact an attorney. By the way, my granddaughter spent 15 months at the Whitmore.
-
leah is right about the clothes. they were pretty bad. a few kids had to wear them.
-
My son also wore the clothes for weeks after attempting to run away. He called his father from the dentist's office sobbing and pleading for us to come and get him. He tried to tell us the things that were happening. Shocked and concerned his Dad called the Whitmore to get answers. He was assured everything was fine and it was our son's attempt to "manipulate us into bringing him home." We were told they weren't pink clothes but might have pink flowers on them. They were like scrubs. The kids who posed the threat of running away were made to wear them so they would be recognized in the community easily and returned to the Whitmore. We accepted the explanation and moved on. Now that our son is home we know a lot more about the "pink" clothes. They also had their shoes taken away so they wouldn't run. That didn't stop our son, he ran in sock feet in December in the freezing cold and snow! He was also taken to the Provo mall in the "pink" clothes and humiliated by Cheryl in the middle of the mall when she announced loudly "isn't he cute in his PINK clothes?" Sounds like a very theraputic way of helping my son, don't you think?! Worth several hundreds of dollars per month for the so called "therapy."
-
I was at the Whitmore last summer and saw two boys being punished by being made to wear what appeared to be some sort of girl's night clothes while they worked outside not only the mansion, but also the boy's house. I observed this on two consecutive days. I really question what lesson this teaches. In my book, humilating teenagers does nothing but cause resentment and low self-esteem, exactly the reason probably most of the kids are there. Again, what is to be accomplished by making the problem worse????? From my observation on more than one occasion, Cheryl's control over the kids is gained by giving them the love they feel they are missing, befriending them and them cutting them to the quick by words and actions when they do something against "the rules." She just yanks the rug out from under them. The kids are there to learn trust, not to manipulate and to feel good about themselves so they make good choices in life. Some of the methods used by the Sudwicks seems very contrary to that goal. I think Cheryl turns the table on the kids by manipulating them to suit her own purose.
-
Gmom,
Please check your private messages.
Thanks
-
" From my observation on more than one occasion, Cheryl's control over the kids is gained by giving them the love they feel they are missing, befriending them and them cutting them to the quick by words and actions when they do something against "the rules." She just yanks the rug out from under them. The kids are there to learn trust, not to manipulate and to feel good about themselves so they make good choices in life. Some of the methods used by the Sudwicks seems very contrary to that goal."
That is a very important observation. It is my humble opinion that this is less about the money for them than you might think. It is about how it makes them feel, their standing, their egos. Yes the money is important to them, but they are getting more out of it than just money. As Ginger had posted one time, it takes a "special kind" of person to get into thought control.
I am about to tip my hand here as to why I hang out here. I see these brave kids posting and I was feeling guilty about what I wasnt saying.
I had an experience with the Sudweeks some 20 years ago. I worked for them and it was a nightmare. They hooked me by doing exactly what you said in your post. They were kind and loving and they filled a gap in my life. Once they had me isolated they were able to get me to the point where I was completly trusting. Then that proverbial rug was whipped out from under my feet.
I soon found I could not do anything right, I was always wrong, and each time it was twisted so that somehow I was hurting them and I was so messed up in the head by that point that I didnt know what to think.
The smallest of things was good for a manipulation. It alternated between me being the good dutiful daughter and the lowest scum on earth. Cheryl would freak out yelling and screaming, Mark would "save me" then lay guilt trips on me. I was afraid of Cheryl, and Mark, well that was probably worse because I looked to him as a father figure and his "disappointment" would cut me to the bone. I loved them both, they were not just employers, they told me I was like family, and I believed them.
It was so completely bizarre! In the end they betrayed me in a way that so completely broke my heart that it left me with emotional scars that to this day affect me in ways I cannot even articulate.
I was not a bad kid. I was not in trouble. I was just gullible and deeply in need of a father and mother figure. Sound familiar? For a long time I thought I was just a lousy employee and it was all my fault but years down the road and many accomplishments later I can see that it is not the case at all. I am probably but one of many former employees who got the treatment and live with the scars. By the way, I am not a "disgruntled employee" they will probably make it out as. I kept silent for 20 years. Few people know of my experience because I was so mortified by it I never put their employement on a single resume, never spoke of it except to family.
Please, continue to speak up. I spent a number of years trying to sort it out in my head as to what was them and what was my responsability. I had a difficult time getting to the point where I could say without reservation that these things were not my fault but rather the result of a psychological manipulation that was played out with cunning and purpose.
I hope for those of you dealing with this that you can sort it out by talking about it now so it doesnt take 20 years to acknowledge that you were not to blame. Trust in people is a hard thing to relearn when it has been so completely destroyed as it has been for most of you.
-
Thank you for sharing. It is not the amount of time it takes to tell your story, but the amount of bravery you show by telling. Bless you for your courage. The most haunting thought comes to my mind: If they were this good at manipulation and mental abuse 20 years ago, imagine how practiced and perfected they must be in 2005, worst of all how many hundreds of broken souls are out there today?
Your story has knocked me off the fence on my waivering stance. This must stop. You have helped to change lives. I hope there is some comfort in that. Again, thank you!
-
To the former employee: Thank you so much for sharing, and I am so sorry for your pain. Read the case sited about Mark Sudweeks in the animal abuse case in Canada. THOSE TWO will turn on their own foster children, and their OWN biological children to save thier own skin. They do not know what the work love, or committment means. Manipulation of people, and the legal system is all they know or care about.
What was your job with the Sudweeks? I do believe that they lie and were not running schools that far back. What type of business were they in 20 years ago. I read the Canada transcript; and realize they took in foster kids for money, but it doesn't look like they were actually running a "SCHOOL."
Do you know anything about what the Sudweeks were doing down in Mexico? On the Who Am I Discovery website, they sucked all us parents in telling us they had all these "SCHOOLS" open to take our kids to visit. Well, these schools are not open at all. That was just glossy brochures to impress us that they have schools all over the place. The only school they have is the Whitmore.
My child, like you was totally confused too. It was "sometimes Cheryl loved me. But she would get so mad, and then stop loving me." That woman does not know what love is. She knows what control is. She knows what manipulation is. She know what she considers to be Power is. Her own kids don't even call her "Mom" they call her "Cheryl." Now, what is that about? I do pity that young son of their's. Who's around to "take him home?"
-
On 2005-01-29 07:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
The most haunting thought comes to my mind: If they were this good at manipulation and mental abuse 20 years ago, imagine how practiced and perfected they must be in 2005, worst of all how many hundreds of broken souls are out there today?
That is exactly what I keep wondering about.
When things were good with them, it was so very good. Lots of laughs and good times. If they had only stuck with that, they could have made such a difference for people. I would have followed them anywhere.
-
On 2005-01-29 17:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
" Read the case sited about Mark Sudweeks in the animal abuse case in Canada. THOSE TWO will turn on their own foster children, and their OWN biological children to save thier own skin.
Yah that kind of blew me away too. Mark would probably say that this was because he was being persicuted and that they would go easier on his children than they would on him. I cannot imagine doing that, putting your kids into a situation where they could face criminal records just to save your own bacon, but I am not Mark Sudweeks.
What was your job with the Sudweeks? I do believe that they lie and were not running schools that far back."
When I worked for them, there wasnt a teen program. I believe Mark worked with some programs in Wenatchee Washington. I believe they may have been through a municipality program however, I am not sure. I really got the feeling the programs were recreational and they had some kids there for "internships".
They were not running residential programs when I was with them, they were just talking about it. If there was something before that, I am not aware of it.
As to foster kids, there wernt any when I was there.
I am pretty sure they can safely say their experience with kids goes back pretty far, although I think to call what they did programs is stetching it. As to the school, I think the earliest a formal program could have been there was probably 1989. They should actually be able to prove a formal program if there indeed was one with business liscences etc. Something to find out isnt it? There has to be records. Perhaps there are other lurking former employees who could flesh this out?
Do you know anything about what the Sudweeks were doing down in Mexico?
I have no idea sorry. I didnt really keep tabs on them after I left. I became interested again only when the court case with the animals happened and it was brought to my attention by my mother. When I read they were running teen programs knowing what my experience was, I became concerned.
I just want to make sure I also say that I am so sorry about your son, I hope he comes through this ok. Maybe with more people talking about it he will see it wasnt just him and he can put the responsability where it belongs.
-
Mom2three
Can you please expand more on what your "job" was with the Sudweeks? Also, if you feel comfortable, a little more detail on the final and last betrayal that broke your heart.
This could give very helpful insight to those of us searching for answers. I spent many hours on the phone yesterday personally hearing stories from peoople off this site. Your future, as well as many children and parents could be altered by what you have to say.
You made reference to my last posting and my haunting thoughts. Keep thinking of how many children, young and grown, that are keeping secrets. Let that give you courage. You have our support and most of all you are not alone!
This goes for anyone else out there still suffering in silence. I spoke with a young lady yesterday that hadn't spoken of this to anyone except on this site. I also spoke with a mother who was relieved to have a live person to confide in. My heart is breaking, but as a mother I am on a mission to get answers!
I have to ask you Mother2three, what would you do if this had happened to one of your children?
Thank you again for joining in.
-
Momto3: You referred to checking to see if the Sudweeks had a license back then---that is the problem with Mark and Cheryl, having the proper license means nothing to them. Right now they only have a license for a Bed and Breakfast at the Whitmore, and they still have about 40 kids at the Whitmore. They could care less about having the proper license. Now they are applying for "accreditation " for a private school, and most of the parents who have their kids there THINK that place has full accreditation, when they only are in the "candidacy state of accreditation." They just play games with words and licenses. Anybody ever see a REAL teacher at that place? The Sudweeks had kids teaching themselve, and kids teaching kids. They get to pocket all the money, and don't have to pay anyone. Bet we parents could really get riled up if we compared what each of us paid for that program....I guarantee you that each of us paid exactly what the Sudweeks knew they could suck out of us....that there was no set fees. The more we had----the more we paid!!!!!! The more they knew we were willing to borrow, the more we paid. That's the way it worked.
-
There wasnt a set fee schedule? Wow, that does leave it wide open and by the time you invest the first amounts I imagine you just keep following through on it. What were they using for their school program? Was there a curiculum guide of any sort? Was it online?
To the previous poster regarding my work with the sudweeks, it was just general labor. I was never there with any of the kids in programs so I will not be of help to you in that way. I am just telling you so you can maybe understand that your kids may well be telling you the truth.
As to their final betrayal, it was just one more mind game that was so well played it left no doubt as to what they were really like at heart. Just one on the list of many, each like the one before but some of them more devastating than others. THis last one nearly destroyed me. They are very good at what they do.
It was also a long, long time ago. Each event just compounded the next and it wasnt what they did it was the fact they did it. It could be something as simple as not having enough of the right kind of cookies in a cookie jar that would set them off and suddenly you were the scum of the earth. Literally, it could be something that small and insignificant to trigger a major episode.
I just want to calrify however, I was never really concerned about physical harm or sexual abuse, it was just one big old mind game.I think it has had just as much effect and there are times I wish they had just beaten me and I would have KNOWN for sure that I was being abused and gotten the hell out of there faster.
-
I was in the whitmore last year as to the school schedule, there wasnt any. when the kids first get there they are set up with an e-mail address and classes online. you have to wait for a password from the school site, but for some kids that would take up to 5 months. we had a time to school, usually about 2 hours a day. we were able to sit around the mansion and do school, some kids did and others didnt. nobody ever checked to see if you were actually doing school. personally, i never did one single assignment. i would just tell cheryl that i was. She pretty much just gave me my credits. I was sort of like chris. like i wrote stuff for cheryl to make to program look good. i talked to parents, told them i loved it and it was a great place to send their kids, all sorts of stuff. if you get on her good side she has you do those sorts of things. but i never once believed anything i was made to tell others, i did it because i was afraid of getting in trouble by her. i hope this helps.
-
while i was in the whitmore the state would come eevry couple of months or so to check it out and to see if the program was run the way it was supposed to be. well we were allowed to have razors, shampoo, ect, all of the bathroom and cleaning supplies you would have in a home. well when mark and cheryl knew the state was coming they would make all of us kids take everything out of our rooms, such as razors, shampoo, windex, comet, all of the knives would be taken out of the kitchen, the laundry would be locked up, the detergeant, ect, also cheryl would lock her room and also the fruit room (thats where they would keep extra food and cleaning supplies. anyway, after they would search the mansion and also the boys house we were able to get everything back. also she made us thuroughly clean the whole entire mansion. when they left we had access to everything. in cheryl and marks room cheryl had a whole closet full of pills she would ask me all of the time to go into her room and get pills for her. if i wanted to i could have taken whatever i wanted out of there. also one time cheryl had a few of the girls clean her room for her, two of the girls stole pills and took them, cheryl knew about it and the girls were punished.
-
Mom2three,
You mentioned it would have been easier if they would have just beaten you... you would have gotten the HELL out of there!
Ironically, I had this same discussion with my son today. Mental abuse is so much harder to see, understand and prove. Internal scars don't show. It is really a worse kind of abuse because it can go years unnoticed or untreated. It is the second guessing, constantly wondering if you are causeing the abuse by something you said or did.
After awhile it becomes normal or an acceptable way of life. He kept saying today, "Mom, Cheryl never hit me, but it was the constant daily mental mind games. She would drive you crazy and make you second guess yourself." "I knew I hadn't done something she accused me of, but after awhile she would almost convince me I did." "I started to wonder if I had blackouts and just didn't remember doing it!"
I saw just a fraction of the mind games during a couple of my visits. I even experinced her mind games personally. She is very good, and almost convinced me I had said something I hadn't. It freaked me out how she twisted things around and messed with my mind. I am an adult, and it nearly worked on me! Imagine how well she could twist fragile, troubled minds.
Alum Mom
-
I was sort of like chris. like i wrote stuff for cheryl to make to program look good. i talked to parents, told them i loved it and it was a great place to send their kids, all sorts of stuff. if you get on her good side she has you do those sorts of things. but i never once believed anything i was made to tell others, i did it because i was afraid of getting in trouble by her. i hope this helps."
When I read "I never once believed anything I was made to tell othere" I wanted to stand up and cheer! That is so great you could come out of it with a sense of self and your own truth! That says a whole lot about your charactor and I think you are going to go far in life. Well done!
Kids are a whole lot smarter than adults like to give them credit for, so I want you to know, I give you a whole lot of credit!
Thanks for explaining the schooling. Now that you are "out" have you been tested as to your education level? Have you missed much? I dont imagine it will take you too long to catch up but still, I hope you arnt too far behind because of your "accredited education".
-
Have any parents talked to Tim Lowe the therapist since he left Whitmore? He checked a lot of our kids into Whitmore. Wonder why he REALLY left. Wonder if he go paid for his role as "Admissions Director" for the Sudweeks?
-
If you look at the site "Who AM I DISCOVERY" they still have him listed as Dr. Tim, Therapist, but I sure wouldn't send him an email, you know who would be reading that email, Cheryl of course. Just like she read all the emails we sent to our kids.
-
Another thing about the e-mail, Cheryl doesn't necessarily check the e-mail that got back and forth form you and your kids. When I was there she had me go through all of her e-mails. Kids talk and many of the e-mails are personal, would you want the whole "whitmore program" reading what you had to say to your kids or even to Cheryl about your kids?
-
to go on what leah said i think the only reason they made you send your emails through was so that... later on.. if anything came up they had a record of the email. that type of thing.
oh and hi leah! do you have aim?
-
New subject... food, what was/is the food like there?
-
On 2005-02-01 16:41:00, schacherer wrote:
"Another thing about the e-mail, Cheryl doesn't necessarily check the e-mail that got back and forth form you and your kids. When I was there she had me go through all of her e-mails. Kids talk and many of the e-mails are personal, would you want the whole "whitmore program" reading what you had to say to your kids or even to Cheryl about your kids?"
What were you looking for in the emails? Whether you were ever expressly told what to look for or not, what sort of content would make you feel obliged to let Cheryl know?
I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way.
--Robert Frost, American poet
-
Is this one of the programs that pays finders fee for kids?
:???:
-
Yes, I believe it does.
-
In my opinion as a mother, not adequate. My son had lost nearly 20 pounds by the end of his stay. This is an 18 year old boy who had nearly 0% bodyfat when he arrived and was still growing.
During my visits I witnessed several occasions where the kids had not been feed breakfast or lunch by late afternoon. On one occasion I took 4 other teens to "breakfast" with us at 2pm. They acted like they hadn't eaten in days. The thinest kid cleaned 2 other plates!
The second occassion was during a trip to the Provo mall. We arrived to the mall late afternoon around 4 or so. The kids who rode with me had not eaten anything prior to that time that day. All 4 boys were very hungry.
We were to meet the rest of the group for buffet around 6 or so. I bought the boys cheeseburgers to hold them over. When we got to the buffet I made a joking comment to one of the boys about his big plate of food after his cheeseburger. When Cheryl heard he had "eaten before the buffet" she got very angry. She made the boy stop eating. He was made to sit and watch the others eat and wasn't allowed to finish his. I was mortified and felt to blame for spilling the beans.
My son has food issues since he has been home. One of his favorite activities is grocery shopping! He likes to go to make sure our cabinets are full. In the early days of his return he couldn't get full. He ate constantly.
One day I was going to make a chicken dish in the crockpot. He nearly went bonkers! "If I smell chicken in a crockpot I will puke!" He then proceeded to inform me they had whole chickens in crock pots with water and seasoning. It was the main staple at the Whitmore. Usually the chicken was past the expiration date too. It was much cheaper nearly spoiled.
On his ride to the airport to come home he announced he couldn't wait to have a good home-cooked meal and a huge salad. He was craving vegetables! Something he rarely ate before the Whitmore. That tells me all I need to know! Hope this helps....
-
Does the Whitmore pay finder's fee? Ask Sue Scheff at PURE! Of course Whitmore pays. Almost every kid at Whitmore is referred by Sue Scheff. Whitmore is her gravy train! She even has her own escort service to drag kids to the Whitmore, whatever it takes to get them there. Some people call it a 'referral fee.' I call it a 'bounty fee.' Whatever you call it---Sue Scheff gets paid.
-
About the emails. Cheryl read emails from home aloud in the group sessions to humiliate my daughter, who still cries when she talks about it. She says she would have to just sit there and take it and take it. Says Cheryl would laugh like a crazy person while she read the email, making fun of what was said in the email...just absolute humiliation, destroying this girl's sense of family, sense of dignity. My daughter says she just sat there helpless, and hurt. All she can ask now is why? Why would Cheryl be so evil What was the purpose? I just tell her that no one can explain that woman, except may a really good shrink. She truly is a sick person.
-
I think there's more going on than that. One poster talked about someone getting into trouble for sneaking email to her parents w/o Cheryl's knowledge. Another talks about monitoring emails as one of the chores delegated to higher level kids and also about saving the material for future reference.
BTW, they used to read diaries and personal letters and such in Group at Straight. Same thing. Ridicule, anger, shouting and utter humiliation ensued. Very effective, if you're enough of a monster to carry it out.Real criminals walk free every day to rape, rob, and murder again because the courts are so busy finding consensual criminals guilty of hurting no one but themselves.... To free cells for consensual criminals, real criminals are put on the street every day.
Peter McWilliams
-
jhkhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhg
-
Chery Sudweeks was that monster. She read emails from parents to their kids, and the kids emails homes to humiliate the kids, and to show that the kids were being disloyal to the group to the Whitmore "family." If it was something Cheryl considered "bad enough" then she would take away privileges for the whole group, and make the whole group mad at this one kid. This way she could then eaisly get the group to gang up on this kid and have them yell and scream at the kid, and then it was easy to go to the next sick step and have them physically attack the kid. This is how she operates. She is a monster, and she loves this monsterous game she plays.
-
What is this? "jhkhhhhhhhhhhhhhhg" I know my kid said you guys wrote in codes. Does this mean something?
-
I know this is true as she is the person (Sue from PURE) who talked me into the Whitmore also. We lost a lot of money for nothing but damaging things done to our child. Stay away from this place, the owner (Cheryl) is not a normal, functioning person and does a lot of unhealthy things to children.
-
Hello everyone, I'm a former student of the Whitmore Academy. I've been reading this forum for the past week to see whats been said and I'd like to answer any questions anyone has.
-
Hi! Thanks for the opportunity. I'll get right to it.
Are communications between parents and children monitored in any fashion?
Are letters intercepted and read aloud in the group setting? Or used to humiliate and ridicule the child?
Is there any pressure with regards to religion? I know they state that there is not a religious preference, but is that really true?
Are the kids allowed any 'personal time'. Time alone with their own thoughts?
Are kids kept up late? I don't mean just a little late, but does it cross the line of sleep deprivation?
Is communication with their parents withheld as punishment?
I appreciate you taking the time to answer these.
Patient memoirs are a kind of protest literature like slave narratives or witness testimonies.
G.A.Hornstein
-
I'll be glad to answer these questions because i experienced some of these things myself.
Are communications between parents and children monitored in any fashion?
I never really knew for sure when they were listening in but I know for a fact that they do in fact listen in to certain conversations with the parents. In some cases when there were "new" kids there they would always listen in or have the speaker phone on to see whats being said to prevent new kids from trying to "manipulate" their parents in Cheryl's words.
Are letters intercepted and read aloud in the group setting? Or used to humiliate and ridicule the child?
If you are caught writing a letter to your parents about how you don't like it there or how much you want to be home, Cheryl has in several occassions read letters and emails out loud in group in order to humiliate whoever wrote it and to turn the rest of the group against that kid.
Is there any pressure with regards to religion? I know they state that there is not a religious preference, but is that really true?
I think there is a lot of religious pressure. We had to walk to Morman church every Sunday and attend Sunday school as well. If you choose not to go, which you just don't and usually can't do, you have to write essays all day instead. I never tried to get out of going to church only because like you're all saying, you want to be on Cheryl's good side, that even means pretending to understand the church, etc. It beyond me why they do this but several kids decide to convert to Morman in my opinion just to become one of Cheryl's favorites.
Are the kids allowed any 'personal time'. Time alone with their own thoughts?
You are allowed personal along time but it's rare. The only time I was allowed alone time was when I was told to go to my room after doing something wrong, which was usually total bullshit.
Are kids kept up late? I don't mean just a little late, but does it cross the line of sleep deprivation?
Not getting enough sleep is what probably pisses me off the most about the Whitmore. As it's been said here, group sometimes went on as late as 3 in the morning a few times. In those cases we maybe got to sleep until 7:30-8 depending on how group went. Group almost always ended around midnight unless there was a major issue. In that case we still had to wake up t 4:30. The whole point to this sleep deprivation shit is the gets a stronghold on the kids when they dont have sleep. I know that there were plenty of times where I knew I was right when she was yelling in my face, but couldn't really say anything because I was so out of it. Cheryl never needed to sleep because she was like a friggin vampire down in her basement all night. I don't know how much she slept but I know for a fact she was always an emotional wreck because she didnt get any sleep,and she usually took it out on US.
Is communication with their parents withheld as punishment?
There are certain circumstances that kids aren't allowed to talk to their parents at all. There was a point in time during my stay there in the beginning that I wasn't allowed to talk to my parents for a few weeks because they were afraid I would tell my parents what was going on and try to manipulate them to take me home. I usually didn't even want to speak to my parents because even when I could talk to them I couldn't really say how I was doing because I would have been punished.
I hope this helps you, let me know if you have anymore questions.
-
If anyone has any questions about the Joey incident I'd be glad to help you out I witnessed everything.
-
hey anon this is chris... im sure i know you really well, and now that we're both out you should IM me or call me if you have my number. My aim is chasingdogma50 ~ chris
-
On 2005-02-03 11:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If anyone has any questions about the Joey incident I'd be glad to help you out I witnessed everything."
Would you please just describe in your own words what you personally witnessed? It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
Thomas Jefferson
-
First off I just want to make it clear that no one just gets beat at the Whitmore like other programs and I never witnessed Cheryl or Mark hit anyone while I was there except for the time that two girls that were there for a long time ran away. The only abuse I ever saw was when Joey was hit by other kids for getting drunk.
-
youre full of crap- i followed schedule, really did work, and you did too you LIAR> stop lying stop lying nobodys gonna believe you anymore i hope. bye
-
YOUR RETARDED, THE REASON KNOW ONE SAIS ANYTHING IS CUZ NOTHING HAPPENS, GET A CLUE YOU STUPID IGNORANT PEOPLE.
-
Any kind of physical violence -- I repeat, ANY kind of physical violence -- committed by, either the adults that run Whitmore or the kids they are responsible for, is abuse. It appears to me that you witnessed, at least, three kids that were abused. Does that not lead you to believe that other instances of abuse happened, you just may not have witnessed it.
Kids are sent to Whitmore to learn how to handle themselves and make good choices when they return home. I fail to see that beating someone up, child or adult, does that. Obviously, assault and battery are against the law -- in or out of the Whitmore. Seems to me you did not get the correct message -- or did you? I'd like to hear what it is.
-
I titled this post 'sigh.' Do you know what sigh stands for?
Stupid.
Ignorant.
Grotesque.
Horrible.
...to perfectly describe this topic.
That is all.
-
Why are you so angry? Are you still there?
-
I am only angry because these people are my family, wouldnt you be abgry if someone wrongfully accused your family of something? i am only defending those that i love, you would do the same i think.
-
Aight grandma, let me get this straight...
I don't know who wrote that crap, but it wasn't me nor anyone else who knows what's up. So go tell your whore granddaughter to call of her dogs cuz we're tired of this bull.
And when I say dogs, I mean DOGS.
No one got beat. No one got hit. The only fighting that ever goes on is normal teenage bs but nothing serious. We always have group on it if someone does try to fight or provoke anyone else to, and people just don't get away with it. We're DISCOURAGED from fighting here, not told to do it under any cirsumstance nor does the staff ever do it! The only time I have ever seen physical contact in a fight-like scenario from staff is when a kid had to be restrained from trying to fight another kid!
Ugh. Shut UP with the bull, PLEASE. Can you say, 'tired of bs?' Cuz I am.
Peace
Anti-Idiocity Anonymous
What has this sad world come to... ?
-
If you are tired of it then stop coming here and looking at it. be peaceful in your kind family and let people here process things
-
aight stupid, are you dumb or something? we are defending our lives so think twice before you tell us to get off this sight,
inga
-
Why, thank you. My family is very kind, and just so you know my family is the Whitmore. I am glad someone agrees with us that these are indeed kind people.
:razz:
-
On 2005-02-03 16:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"and just so you know my family is the Whitmore.
Did someone say cult?? :scared:
-
WHO EVER WROTE THAT ABOUT CHERYL, YOU ARE SICK, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU KNOW? OBVIOUSLY NOTHING IF YOUR GOING TO SAY IGNORANT CRAP LIKE THAT, LETS GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR DUMB MOUTH, I WISH ALL YOU CRAP TALKERS WOULD SAY WHO YOU ARE, NAH YOU WOULDNT DO THAT WOULD YOU? PUSSY
INGA
-
On 2005-02-03 06:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Chery Sudweeks was that monster.
WHO EVER WROTE THAT ABOUT CHERYL, YOU ARE SICK, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU KNOW? OBVIOUSLY NOTHING IF YOUR GOING TO SAY IGNORANT CRAP LIKE THAT, LETS GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR DUMB MOUTH, I WISH ALL YOU CRAP TALKERS WOULD SAY WHO YOU ARE, NAH YOU WOULDNT DO THAT WOULD YOU? PUSSY
INGA
-
quote]
Did someone say cult?? :scared: "
[/quote]
WHO ARE YOU?? I GUESS IM WASTING MY TIME TRYING TO FIND OUT, DO YOU HAVE A LIFE OR DO YOU SPEND ALL DAY TRYING TO MAKE OTHERS DIFFICULT.
INGA
-
On 2005-02-03 16:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why, thank you. My family is very kind, and just so you know my family is the Whitmore. I am glad someone agrees with us that these are indeed kind people.
:razz: "
Don't you already have a family? Are you encouraged by the staff to refer to the Whitmore as your family? How do your parents feel about this?Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist
-
Actually, my mother considers the Whitmore as part of our family. I never said my biological family is not family, I only refered to the Whitmore as family.
If someone refers to someone else as family, it does not automatically exclude all others from being family.
-
I can see you are learning how to express your anger in a productive way. You jus haven't learned much of a vocabulary. I would suggest you make sure of your facts before you make accusations or defend what you don't know. Just like all of the kids there, hopefully, there will come a time when you will see the truth. I hope you become stronger and learn how to survive to live a productive life. By the way, I visited Whitmore on more than one occassion, and observed several things that I did not agree with, which I considered degrading to any human being. So, Sweetheart, when you have grown up, maybe we will have something to talk about. Right now focus on ways to express your anger like the intelligent person I know you must be. Good luck!
-
YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT YOU REFER TO THE WHITMORE AS YOUR FAMILY BECAUSE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THERE THEY HAVE GROUP ON YOU ASS KISSER
-
Inga, I know for one thing you are one of the biggest brown nosers at the Whitmore sweetie. Go tell someone who cares :wave:
-
Honey, if the life there needs defending, there is something wrong.
-
On 2005-02-03 16:34:00, Gmom wrote:
"I can see you are learning how to express your anger in a productive way. You jus haven't learned much of a vocabulary. I would suggest you make sure of your facts before you make accusations or defend what you don't know. Just like all of the kids there, hopefully, there will come a time when you will see the truth. I hope you become stronger and learn how to survive to live a productive life. By the way, I visited Whitmore on more than one occassion, and observed several things that I did not agree with, which I considered degrading to any human being. So, Sweetheart, when you have grown up, maybe we will have something to talk about. Right now focus on ways to express your anger like the intelligent person I know you must be. Good luck! "
Ill let you know one thing, you cant shut me down, my beliefs are strong and undying. Maybe you ought to experience what goes on here before you make a judgment . You are not god even though you appear to think you are. and about growing up, i ll bet you ive had a lot more "life experiences" than you have ever even known existed, so honey, before you try and make me look stupid you ought to know just a little bit about what you are saying.
pece
inga
-
and leah ill let you know your the biggest slut and bitch so shut yout mouth before you say something youll regret.
inga
-
Inga, Stop and think about why Cheryl has you and others come to her defense. She is the coward here, having kids do her "dirty work."
-
ignore inga.
-
ill have you know that i found this site on my own and i am talking to you at my own will.
-
On 2005-02-03 16:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT YOU REFER TO THE WHITMORE AS YOUR FAMILY BECAUSE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THERE THEY HAVE GROUP ON YOU ASS KISSER"
umm leah? who the hell are you? why dont you say who you are
-
I'd be careful what kind of threats you make in writing.
-
Im really sorry you can't see through whats happening. Im not trying to hurt anyone or make anything worse for anyone, all I am trying to do is help others so that they don't have to go through the things I went through while I was there. I believe that a lot that happened was wrong. You just need to "seek to understand." Wouldn't you be more believeable without calling people names? Don't let your anger make you sound so ignorant.
-
Yes, Im Leah. What do you mean by "why dont you say who you are?
-
On 2005-02-03 17:25:00, schacherer wrote:
"Im really sorry you can't see through whats happening. Im not trying to hurt anyone or make anything worse for anyone, all I am trying to do is help others so that they don't have to go through the things I went through while I was there. I believe that a lot that happened was wrong. You just need to "seek to understand." Wouldn't you be more believeable without calling people names? Don't let your anger make you sound so ignorant."
aight leah your right about the name calling. but will you try and understand that i am not brownnosing, i really do love it here, i might be a loser but this is all i have going for me.cheryl is the only mom i have. mines dead and my adopted mom doesnt really care so she is all i have
inga
-
And to comment on "there is group on when someone fights" how often does that occur? And Cheryl is usually the one who provokes most of the drama. I really just wish you guys could see what she does to you. Its almost like she uses your "problems" against you. She tells you to do one thing and yet when you do what you think she is asking you to do you get in trouble. I only speak the truth. I know Cheryl is making you write these things on here. And Inga, you need to get a clue. Remember what happened to you at the cabin? Do you honestly think that is how a REAL "family" would treat you? Just think a little more when you have something to say. Just think when you write, "would I actualy say this if I was standing in front of a judge?" Im sure the answer would be no. Im sorry you feel the way you do about me, I don't know what I have ever done to you, except for speak the truth so innocent kids won't go into a program with a few problems and come out with a whole new set.
-
And yes I do know a lot about Cheryl, Inga, if you remember I was always with her, I was the one who used to have to do all of her "dirty work." You are being put in a really bad situation by having to say these things. I don't blame you nor and I mad at you. These are just the things you have to do while you are under Cheryl's care. Its not like even if you didn't believe what you were saying you could say something different. I was always terriffied of group, so of course I would agree to Cheryl's face and do WHATEVER she told me to do. I'm just not the kind of person to live the rest of my life scared of her. When you get home I really hope you write again on this website and tell everyone how you feel then.
-
I believe that Cheryl should be in the position of teacher, counselor, but NEVER referred to as a mother. To me thats just degrating and putting down your real mother and adopted mother. I feel really bad that you had to go through this with you only having and adopted mother. I feel that if she didn't take care of you then you would be there. Im sure she loves you very much. I used to feel the same about my mom. But I think your teenage years are just really hard, and mothers and daughters do have peoblems. Now my mom and I are the best of friends. I know she loves me and cares about me a lot. Cheryl should never even have put you in the position to think of her as a mother. And yes, she does try and make it seem like, since you are all a family, then she is the mother mark is the father, etc. But the way they have it isn't like a family. I know that if I ever did any of the thing that I did while in the program, nobody in my family would have treated me like that. They would have helped me figure out another way to deal with it and then something I could do next time I was put in the situation. That is what a family is, they don't call you names, abuse you, manipulate you, set you up to fail, etc. You know what Im saying is true Inga. Please just think about how your real mother or adopted mother would feel if she read "Cheryl is the only mother I have." If I was you mother and there are a lot of other mother on this web site woould probably say, it would hurt them deeply.
-
i spent one fucking year at the whitmore and i know that most kids do not change. kids fake it till they leave the program. why do u think the kids that have been there a while do so well. they fake everything so they dont get into shit. about the fighting they dont try and stop it all the time. when cheryl gets mad enough she could give two fucks. group never solved shit either cause half the time no one knows what the fuck there talking about. like when a kid gets in trouble and they wont listen. they learn to listen real quick because they realize they can avoid a lot of shit that way. they just keep there anger supressed until they get out of the whitmore. they show parents a program that is sweet and loving but as soon as the parents are gone its over. i know because i fucking saw so i dont want anyone telling me that i dont know what im talking about. i saw all the shit that went on. kids werent clean there either. i knew tons of kids that had access to shit and got fucked up all the time off it. it's like you have to like the program cause if you dont or dont wanna be there u get hollered at right in ur face sorta screaming. or if you dont agree on her point of view. perhaps she's a little bi-polar loving one minute and a second later pissed as fuck. trust me when i say that that woman could make u feel worthless. i guess lots of practice. my question is does humiliation really help a kid?
-
I was also there ^^^^^ this is true
-
To: Anyone Who Has Something To Tell About Whitmore.
Please reply to me on "Private Messages" and tell me more about yourselves -- when you were there, etc. I promise to keep everything you tell me confidential unless you tell me otherwise.
Thanks.
-
Leah,
This is Hannah. I wrote something to you on another page please read it, this is stupid that you are saying the things that you are. I might have agreed with you then but after October when you brought me back I learned a lot and I finally started to get my life together around Christmas and I don't want it to change. We were good friends Leah but you lied to me all the time and you stabbed me in the back and I know that you did. Well then also please don't put me in any of your postings, I don't like being talked about online. Especially when people comment on things that weren't even there. If you are going to say something then please dont be anonymous say who you are, if you are home and you say those things then why do you care? Leah I really want to talk to you and I want things to be right between all of us, why do you have to go about it this way? I know that you wanted to change because we had a long talk about it after the cruise and I know that I did not change then but you know that Cheryl did help you and you can't deny that. For all the people who say that you shouldn't call Cheryl their Mother, but what you do not understand is that she has been a mother figure to me and has helped me so much in ways that I can't explain but you have to go through it to understand it. Yes I have gone through some hard times but she has never given up on me and has always been there for me. Please Leah stop talking about me and be real with me and stop calling my family because they don't need more crap in their lives, don't make them worry over nothing and you know it. I don't want to be anywhere but here right now and that is the truth. I came on here on my own without her telling me to because I feel like I have to defend myself and try to set my story straight. If you have any questions about what happened with me in anything then ask me and not post it up on a forum. And Joyce Harris I hate holding grudges but I think you are a terrible person and you know it inside of yourself and you are a very insecure person. I have a great relationship with my family right now and leave them alone because they don't need this crap right now. I have worked hard to get it back together so don't go accusing my relationship when you have no idea, only they do. So that is all I have to say and please leave me out of future conversations.
-Hannah
-
Inga, you are defending your lives? From whom? What the heck is going on there? Is Miss Cheryl on one of her rampages again? Does someone need to call the Nephi police again to protect you kids?
-
A reply to Hannah.
I know we had a long talk after the incident on the curise. But the only reason I said all of that stuff was because I thought you would tell Cheryl, yes, I did lie to you, but it was because of Cheryl. We had many long talks when you weren't around. She told me how to act towards you, the same as she tells you to act towards me now. If you don't ever want to talk to me then that's fine. The only reason I called your family was because I was worried. I care about you. You were my best friend. We confided to eachother. The only thing thats different between you and I is the fact that Cheryl got through to you and I was just strong enough to know what was right. I never believed anything Cheryl told me. I would only go along with it so that there wasn't group on me. And you know as well as I do and as well as everyone else, that I am telling the truth everything I have posted is true. I know Cheryl has put you up to this, or maybe she didn't need to because she "got you." She has sucked you into her deep hole. I just wish you could realize that what she is doing, not only to you but the rest of the kids in the program is wrong. I know when I was there the things that happened became normal, and I thought for a while that a family was like that, but now that I am out, living on my own, having my own family, it is a lot different. Yes, in a way Cheryl did help me I guess you could say. I know now what I will never do to a child, or my own family. I know that I will never degrate or put anyone down in the ways she did to me and to others as well. I have also tried to call and talk to you and Cheryl won't let me speak with you. I have been trying to talk to you ever since you ran away. And I believe that Cheryl won't let us speak because before when we were friends in the program, I never let Cheryl get through to me. When we were friends I think I kind of got you on the right page, meaning not getting sucked into her vicious way of life. And just as I said before, when you get out of the program, write again on this website and tell all of us how you feel. I really hope you get to go home and be with your family in May. I hope to hear from you then.
Leah
-
Hannah, I have no idea why you would hold a grudge against me, or why you would think I am a terrible person. You do not even know me at all;
and I have no idea why you would think I am an insecure person. I have a wonderful family, and home and great security. The only negative in my life is the Sudweeks and the horrendous abuse they put my daughter though at Whitmore Academy, and the sadness my daughter feels when she worries about you kids at Whitmore. I do not know your family, but I would think from some of the things posted on this site, that they would be seriously worried about you. If you were my daughter I would be worried about you being viously beat up by Casie at the direction of the woman you refer to as "another mother figure" Cheryl Sudweeks. I would be worried about you observing your fellow students being humiliated in group sessions led by this "mother ffigure." I would be worried about you having inadequate food, and not being allowed to eat breakfast and lunch on the days the Sudweeks take you kids to "buffet" for dinner. I would be worried about your confessions in group about activties that your "mother figure" should help you with and not simply dismiss as she does.
So, you don't know anything about me except the lies your "mother figure" has told about me. And, as things stand---I most certainly am not being investigated for child abuse, and I have never had the health department criticize my mansion of a home.
And I have never written ugly things about you, until you attempted in your very un-nice way to attack me.
So, please keep me out of your little Whitmore cat fights.
Joyce Harris
-
Leah,
You are talking directly to Cheryl. You don't think for one minute that that evil woman is letting Hannah read and write on this site do you? You are smarter than that!
-
everyone just needs to chill the fuck out and get high. after everyone is stoned we can talk about this rationally.
-
WOW! What got Cheryl going tonight? Bet those poor kids won't get a wink of sleep tonight. Sure glad my child is home, safe, asleep and well-fed, and not subjected to her ranting and raving all night while she plays therapist and torments kids who are at her mercy. I hate to even think about who she will go after. Who she will decide is the "scum of the earth" tonight. Sure hope she doesn't decide to tell a group of those kids to "hey, get him out of here." Everyone knows what that means. WOW!
-
I know Im just talking and Cheryl is probably right there, but Im okay with that because maybe by me talking something will happen maybe someone is thinking of sending their child here and if they read this it will help them to choose. Im just trying to help innocent kids out.
And I do believe that Hannah wrote that but Im also sure that Cheryl read it before it was posted on the forum to make sure it is okay. And I also ahve another question. Cheryl, if you are reading this which you and I both know that you are, why don't you stand up, be a woman, and defend yourself instead of hiding behind these kids? Isn't that what a "mother" would do. She would protect her kids, what you are doing is wrong. So please why don't you do us all a favor and "get a clue."
-
On 2005-02-03 22:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"WOW! What got Cheryl going tonight? Bet those poor kids won't get a wink of sleep tonight. Sure glad my child is home, safe, asleep and well-fed, and not subjected to her ranting and raving all night while she plays therapist and torments kids who are at her mercy. I hate to even think about who she will go after. Who she will decide is the "scum of the earth" tonight. Sure hope she doesn't decide to tell a group of those kids to "hey, get him out of here." Everyone knows what that means. WOW!"
Smacks of what we went through in Straight right down to the core. Miller Newton "Get this girl the fuck outta my group" to some poor girl that dared to offend him in some way. Having "group ON someone"??? Someone please explain this to me. As Antigen said, sounds a lot like the 'come down' raps we used to have, no EXACTLY like them.
Cheryl!!! Please explain the therapeutic value in degrading and humiliating these kids!!! And please explain why you leave THEM to defend YOU!! Shouldn't it be the other way around????Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright
-
On 2005-02-04 10:19:00, Cayo Hueso wrote:
"
On 2005-02-03 22:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"WOW! What got Cheryl going tonight? Bet those poor kids won't get a wink of sleep tonight. Sure glad my child is home, safe, asleep and well-fed, and not subjected to her ranting and raving all night while she plays therapist and torments kids who are at her mercy. I hate to even think about who she will go after. Who she will decide is the "scum of the earth" tonight. Sure hope she doesn't decide to tell a group of those kids to "hey, get him out of here." Everyone knows what that means. WOW!"
Smacks of what we went through in Straight right down to the core. Miller Newton "Get this girl the fuck outta my group" to some poor girl that dared to offend him in some way. Having "group ON someone"??? Someone please explain this to me. As Antigen said, sounds a lot like the 'come down' raps we used to have, no EXACTLY like them.
Cheryl!!! Please explain the therapeutic value in degrading and humiliating these kids!!! And please explain why you leave THEM to defend YOU!! Shouldn't it be the other way around????Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright
"
Having "group on you" means everyone sits down in a room and Cheryl brings up what you did wrong, whatever it may be, and I mean anything. After you give a tiny explination she makes you give details of everything. Then all the kids "express themselves" to you, and its supposed to help you and the other kids. When group is on you, you can't really defend yourself because you have all the kids yelling in your face, calling you names, telling you how stupid you are. Also if Cheryl is really heated about what you did wrong, she is the one "expressing herself" to you. And for me once it was more than just her talking.
-
that pretty accurately describes group
-
I've decided not to post anything else on this forum, Im done with it. I have a great life drug free a loving and caring boyfriend. All of these kids threatening me doesn't scare me I just don't care to hear from them anymore. If anyone wants to talk to me in an adult, grown up, mature manner you can e-mail me or send a private message. So goodbye to everyone. I hope you all get the answers you are looking for and also I believe Cheryl and Mark will get their Karma sooner or later, we all just have to live our own lives and forget about the trash. Just take it out and leave it behind.
-
If you decide not to post any longer, I can not blame you, but as a parent I appreciate your honesty and your input. It has helped me to understand better what went on at Whitmore, and to understand why I rarely heard from my daughter, and why she seemed so distant, so scared, and so "different" in her phone calls and in her emails home. Thank you very much, and I hope that you so-called-past-friends from the Whitmore will get out from under the control of Cheryl Sudweeks, and realize the hurt they caused you on this site, and humbly apologize to you and your family. Take care.
-
Yep. "having a group on you" might result on Cheryl giving the order, "get him out of here." That means whoever the group was on is taken out of the group room and he or she gets the living hell beat out of him. Yep. You dont want to be the one who hears those words from the loving Cheryl.
-
I never saw Cheryl give the order for someone to be beat, but it might have happened before I got there
-
Leah's description of Group is identical to a Straight Come Down rap. Only difference is that rap is what we did all day every day, 9 - 9 or so (except open meeting nights, which went on till the wee hours)
No Straight staffer ever said "Beat his ass" either. But that's exactly what happened when they sayd "Who wants to take _____ to the Timeout Room!" Cops; you wake `em up you gotta dance with `em. They lead.
-- Jack McNulty
-
How did the kids know what "get him out of here" meant? Who decided who was going to do the beating? I'm a little confused. How did it all happen?
-
Cause they remember how it went last time. It's not hard to condition teenagers to do violence. Ask any drill sergent.
Save our planet; it's the only one with chocolate!
--Andi, domestic goddess
-
Have any of you parents seen the new STAFF PAGE on Whitmore site Who Am I Discovery????
Some quality Education offered there....so-called teachers only listed by first names, and 4 of them are the Sudweeks daughters, and one of them is a 17 year old...but they only teach "horsemanship or home economics."
There are two "students" serving as PROCTORS, whatever that may be. Then they offer real quality, academically challenging courses of Carpentery Skills, Mechanics,Wood Shop, Martial Arts....and OK, they have to give the son-in-law a job----so he gets to teach Aviation Science.
AVIATION SCIENCE???? Give me a BREAK!!!
How about a little English, Math, History, Science, Reading, just something that gives a little bit of trickery that Whitmores just might really be a Private Broading Academic School!!!
Maybe the Sudweeks need to get real and hand out FLYERS and stop spending money on those glossy brouchures advertising they are an ACCREDITED SCHOOL.
-
Hey: If Whitmore is just a Trade School, and they can't offer treatment since they "surrendered their license for a treatment center to the State of Utah," maybe all you parents who still see some need to leave your kids there, and don't think you should bring them home where they will be safe---should at least ask the Sudweeks for a great big reduction in tuition!!!
First of all: Your kids are not safe there.
Secondly the Sudweeks are not allowed to offer psychological therapy for your kids.
And lastly, from their own website, the kids surely are not being offered a quality education as promised.
Wake up folks!
-
well, Tori just got out of the program a few months ago, eddie went home a few weeks ago, trinity and laeysa(17) arent qualified to teach horsemanship, yeah they have ridden their whole lives but not anything else. Shayla lives four hours away, and also has no training or a license, john, well he worked at the hospital and rented a room at the whitmore because he lived two hours away and it was too hard to drive, so he doesnt and never did work there, ben knows martial arts but is not a trainer, ummm....those are all of the people i can think of so far.
-
Oh yeah not to mention, darlene, lives in salt lake and hasnt been here since last may, and susan who lives in alpine about two hours away and she probably comes once a month.
-
The lack of academics at Whitmore could be considered a joke, but it is not funny when these kids finally come home and either have to take a GED because their "CREDITS" are worthless; or the Sudweeks refuse to even furnish a "transcript."
The concern right now, is the safety of those kids!
I understand there's a new kid there now who for some reason---"just isn't getting the program, and isn't accepting all this FAMILY LOVE" and HE IS THE NEW JOEY!!!
If anybody out there knows how to reach AUSTIN's
parents---tell them to come and get that kid out of there RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
America is Mormon turf. anybody want to play Jepardy? :wstupid:
-
hey inga go shove it up your ass! I was a kid there and these people who are putting down the whitmore obviously don't have one clue what went on there. your a little suck up so go over to cheryl tell her to bend over and kiss her ass because thats all your doing. i think you're so fake and poor cheryl always falls into that trap. O yea and are you even allowed on this website? won't your get into major trouble? well consider yourself caught... Stupid fucking hoe
-
HELLO!!! nothing you just wrote made any sense whatsoever??????????????
Anyway: Happy Valentine's Day
-
Was one of the courses taught at Whitmore titled "how to use crude stupid cuss words?"
Can you spell any other 4 letter words?
You kids need to stop!
-
FUCK
-
Cute!
-
On 2005-02-14 13:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Was one of the courses taught at Whitmore titled "how to use crude stupid cuss words?"
Can you spell any other 4 letter words?
You kids need to stop!"
Pathetic. You need to stop. Now you're going to pin fould language on the Whitmore? I hear 13 year olds at the mall that swear more than me.
-
who gives a FUCKING FUCK
-
by the way FUCK
-
Guess the word of the day is "fuck."
Has anybody noticed that the web site:
Who Am I Discovery is not around any longer?
Wonder Why???
Think maybe SOMEONE told the Sudweeks it's not "cool" to have a website that says they have schools in Canada and Mexico when they DON'T?
Or it's not "cool" to say they have an Equine Therapy Horse Program with an employee trained by Monty Roberts, "The Horse Whisperer?"
Or it's not "cool" to say they are FULLY ACCRETITED when they're NOT?
Maybe the Sudweeks are just re-writing it to state what kind of kids they really enroll---those that DO have a history of violence...drug addicts...gang members.
Just a little more information to really inform parents what Whitmore is all about.
Maybe they will delete all that part that says they DON'T USE PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT...
Just wondering.
-
screw you. seriously, I mean come on! Were you even there? and if you were then you would know that there was absolutely no physical abuse. I don't hear you people bitching at your child's public school every time that a fight breaks out there. Why is that? Do you people have no lives because if you did then why would you take the time out of your day to complain about the Whitmore? and for you ignorant people out there who don't know what a "residential treatment center" or a "behavior modification facility" is then let me try and educate you. The Whitmore is there to help kids in need and have trouble, are there substance abusers there??? The answer is yes. Why??? because you want your kids to be healthy and happy they in one way or another they are doing these things because there is something in there life that they might not want to deal with.
Are there gang members there?
The answer is no. Honestly people, lets think about this here. If gang members have only friends as there family then there has got to be no parents or parents that don't care so who would even think about bringing them there?
Are there people with a history of violence?
The answer is yes, and no. Do you really think that Mark and Cheryl would put their childeren's lives let alone their own and other kids' lives on the line? Heres where the word "behavior modification" comes in. This modifies the behavior of some of the kids. Yea some of them go in there angry and may want to flip but it doesn't get to that point. So before you people criticize any one else take a second to look at yourself and realize your flaws and try to fix them because the kids at the Whitmore are doing there best to fix themselves for the better and all you people are doing is trying to distract them with stupid nonesense. your kids are safe! I went there!!! I was a kid there! my parnets love the way i am now and if your parents have concerns about your child going there, or people have a problem with this letter then you can email me at [email protected]
-
I'm sorry, but there are those that have opinions and experiences different than yours. There is a gang memeber there. There are violent kids there. the whole point that you are missing is that the Sudweeks advertised and contracted certain things that they did not provide. Plain and simple. I really don't think you know how each and every contract reads, and maybe you're not aware of what other people experienced. You have a right to your opinion, but so does everyone else. Sounds to me like the behavior modification didn't work too well for you. I detect a lot of anger.
-
One thing I want to tell you guys, you angry ppl making threats. You probably don't have any real idea what the Sudweeks and the edcons tell the parents. I understand that you probably either take their word for it or pretend to. Been there and I did and would do just exactly the same. No blame there.
But I've heard the same complaint from numerous families now over the years. Not just the families of Whitmore kids, but from a lot of the programs going all the way back to The Seed in 1971.
While we were unable to communicate w/ our families, we were told that whatever they did to us was our own fault. "You did the necessary things...." was a mantra which was often followed by just exactly the type of language and disparagment that I've seen you kids use against each other. It's hard to watch, but I think I understand.
What I didn't know then, not for many, many years later when I finally had an itch to look up other program people, is that they were not telling the parents exactly the same thing. They were telling the parents whatever they wanted to hear until they could gain enough influence over them to get them to go along w/ the program.
So when one after another of these parents come along and tell us that they were told something vastly different from what was going on, I tend to believe them. And when you kids respond w/ such rage and indignation, I understand that too. But you can't all be right and you can't all be wrong. I would suggest that you figure out a way to speak privately w/ your parents and ask them what they've been told and sold and you see for yourself whether or not the stories add up.
Faith is believing something you know ain't true.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
-
On 2005-02-16 10:36:00, Gmom wrote:
"I'm sorry, but there are those that have opinions and experiences different than yours. There is a gang memeber there. There are violent kids there. the whole point that you are missing is that the Sudweeks advertised and contracted certain things that they did not provide. Plain and simple. I really don't think you know how each and every contract reads, and maybe you're not aware of what other people experienced. You have a right to your opinion, but so does everyone else. Sounds to me like the behavior modification didn't work too well for you. I detect a lot of anger."
You're sweet granddaughter was trying to have sex with that gangmember for months.
-
That is really not what I am concerned about. What I am concerned about is that he is there at all. Didn't you say in your last post that there weren't any gang members, and now you're saying my granddaughter was "trying to have sex with that gang member"?
I know that there were opportunities for kids to have sex. Why is that, if, as stated in the contract, the kids were supposed to have adult supervision? There was one of the girls that got pregnant, while under this so-called supervision.
I think you are still missing the point! My granddaughter was a minor in the care, supposedly, of qualified adults. I do not believe that was true. That is part of what we paid for. Tell me again who the liars are.
-
On 2005-02-16 11:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
You're sweet granddaughter was trying to have sex with that gangmember for months."
Oh dear God NOOOO! A teenaged girl away from home and family trying to attract romanic attention from a tough young guy? Raise the terror alert! Call out the national guard! Run for cover, this is Trouble w/ a capital T that rhymes w/ P that stands for .....
PuhleeeeZ!! :roll:
Instead of giving money to fund colleges to promote learning, why don't they pass a Constitutional Amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as good as the Prohibition one did, why, in five years we would have the smartest race of people on earth.
--Will Rogers
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
ok this is the person who wrote idiocy. the thing is yea some things aren't right there but other things were. who is perfect??? and you know what i am a lot more calm than i used to be I dont use intimidation anymore and everyone gets angry here and there so i think im entitled to be angry. It's just the kids are trying to help themselves and figure out what went wrong but the parents keep interfering and I think it's wrong. I totally understand that parents want to talk to their children but nagging them and trying to talk to mark and cheryl when they have other things to tend to is unreasonable. 40 kids and one or 2 parents each... thats 75-80 parents they talk to. did they send there kid to the whitmore to get help? if so... and they all talk to mark or cheryl... where is the time for the kids??? and who is this "gangmember" you all are talking about i went there almost a year ago and to this day i know exactly what is going on. there is no "gang member"
sincerely ~whitmore alumni
-
Every parent is entitled to periodic reports on their child's "progress" from Mark or Cheryl, NOT some made-up report by some other kid. We were told there were only 16 kids there. In fact, it's in our contract. But, in fact, there ended up being 40.
-
about the gang member...i went there and i have something to say.
first off you should never always assume that what someone is telling you is true, before you really know the facts.
during my stay there i knew and heard two boys that said they had gang problems back home. the kids and cheryl would often talk about their problems back home with gngs , in group that is, except with one qnd he was the one who supposedly killed someone. i won't say names. one of them left a couple of months ago and the other is still there and has been there for almost two years i think....
later in my stay, some girls there told me that one of them had actually killed someone in a gang fight. and then another girl also told me the same thing. i never confronted him, but have always wondered about that. I know the guy there, but to keep things calm , i shouldn't say his name.
:???:
-
well i went there and i know who your talking about he was a good friend of mine and he didnt kill anyone he wasnt even in a gang. you dont have to believe me but the gang member killing spree isnt true and the girls there probably lied to you just to look cool. and what girls told you this? i know some kids there know gang members when they were home but who doesn't? a lot of kids these days know at least one or two depending where they are from. maybe the kid would talk about what he has witnessed it and was tramatized by it and needed someone to confide in about it. i know a few people he would talk to like Whalen and Annie but did he ever talk to you about it? please dont take offense to it. and when did you go there? i might know you.
~Whitmore Alumni
-
Your contract said there could only be 16 and there were 40 kids there? Well, my my....guess the Sudweeks are just miracle workers!!!
What two adults would even begin to think they could watch over 40 kids spread out over 3 living spaces....the mansion (yea, right a MANSION)..the boys house and now they have them sleeping at the school house.
What parent can even begin to imagine that any of those kids are being supervised?
It's simply "kids watching kids."
-
Alumni person--I beg your pardon. I don't know where you are from, but you mis-speak. Not every person knows a gang member or two.
Most people do not live in a world where they just happen to run into gang members in their everyday life.
Maybe since you are a graduate of Whitmore you will be able to better yourself and upgrade and move somewhere that is not infested with gang members.
-
It is simple. The contract reads that no students with a history of violence will be accepted at the Whitmore.
Not "just a little bit of violence," it says NO HISTORY OF VIOLENCE.
It is the Sudweeks' contract with the parents, and the Sudweeks need to live up to it.
-
Whitmore Alumni, why are you saying other kids names, Whalen & Annie yet you don't use your own name. Think that's fair?
-
On 2005-02-16 19:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
" you dont have to believe me but the gang member killing spree isnt true and the girls there probably lied to you just to look cool. and what girls told you this? i know some kids there know gang members when they were home but who doesn't?
This is an interesting point, Alum.
Kids do brag and tell big stories. Parents too, because they're scared; they don't know what's really going on and so they sometimes use their imaginations. But the worst part? The schoolpeople, the cops, the people who produce public service announcement and (especially) those who make their living selling 'cures' also play at building up these various scary specters.
I believe that some of the kids who wind up in these places have very real issues. And I see little evidence to suggest that those kids get often what they need. But most of these kids don't need anything close to the radical cures offered by the troubled parent industry.
I think the best thing to do is for everyone to just ignore the rediculous restrictions on communication. Talk to each other. Talk to your parents. Talk to your kids. You don't need permission in America to talk to whoever you want, far less to talk to your own friends and family. If the Sudweeks tell you different, show them a copy of the Bill of Rights and tell them to ehf off!
And, btw, since you've picked a name to sign your posts, why not register a username? It doesn't raise your liability at all. You don't even have to give valid information when you register. It only makes it easier for people to know who's saying what and protects you against anyone who may try to pretend to be you.
...to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them...
-- George Mason
-
You guys probably dont know who Whalen and Annie are so it doesnt matter unless your have heard things about them.
I agree that kids go there because they have real issues. there is no dout in my mind. But the thing is why can't the parents just leave the whitmore alone and let them do there own thing. I'm angry at the parents because when i was a kid at the whitmore parents would stick their noses in everything and it got really annoying. Some parents that we would talk to were really cool they were understanding and didn't judge the other kids there. I do think communication is important but some parents would pressure their kids do be a better person and go to a totally different level than the one that they were woking on. This probably caused a lot of pressure and totally screws the kid up. It's annoying when parents tell us kids to follow the rules yet they don't themselves
-
Dear Alumni,
Parents will not and should not back off and let the "Sudweeks do their own thing."
That is why we signed contracts with them.
We have expectations that we pay for and that must be met.
There are rules that must be followed.
There are laws that the Sudweeks must not break.
There are educational, psychological, and moral standards that must be upheld.
Not one parent sent their child to Whitmore to abused in any manner--physically, emotionally, psychologically, or spiritually.
The Sudweeks have "done their own thing" way way too long.
It was and is wrong.
It must stop now.
-
get this straight. THERE IS NO PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL AND OR PSYCHOLOGICAL DAMAGE DONE TO ANYONE OF YOUR KIDS THERE. Have you been there? If you have... have you witnessed anything that has happened? I highly dout it. have you seen bruises and marks or anything like that on your child? I bet you guys have watched the movies on the website when it was up and running. didnt you see all the great things your child has experienced? didnt you see the smiles on their faces? I said a little futher back on a different reply that ther was 40 kids. When i went there and it was the end of my time there were. there are probably about 18 kids there now. And yes, parents do break the rules. when you have once a week to talk to your children its supposed to be 10 minutes no longer no shorter. What my point is, is that when your child talks to you and your 10 minutes is up you know you dont want to get off the phone with them so you put them on a guilt trip and then they say on a little longer. Whats happens next? they get into trouble because its not fair to the rest of the kids. and it isn't . and i will state one more time that there is no abuse going on there this program actually helps. it has helped me and a couple other kids like aaron, rob, jordan, whalen, brandon and a lot of other kids.
email: [email protected]
-
Alumni, you don't consider it abusive to have a student's personal emails, letters and journals read aloud in GROUP for the purpose of having Cheryl Sudweeks to humilate and demean that student?
You don't consider it abusive to have Cheryl Sudweeks to tell a student in group that a student's parents do not love them, do not want them and do not care about them?
You don't consider it abusive when Cheryl Sudweeks gives the order "Get him out of here," and several boys take one student outside and begin beating the heck out of him as the rest of the students watch out the windows?
Guess you come from some really really bad backgroung if you can just write these examples off as NON-ABUSIVE.
Cheryl Sudweeks is not a therapist, and is not qualified to lead a group session. Her methods of doing so are emotionally, psychologically, and even at times, physically abusive.
Parents do have the RIGHT to be involved, and to ask questions, and to intervene. Parents have a contract with the Sudweeks that should assure that no abuse goes on period. But the Sudweeks do not honor their end of the contract...they think they can do as they please, as abusive as it may be.
But many parents have said--ENOUGH. This must stop.
-
What's with the number count at Whitmore?
One post there are 40 students.
Next post there are 16 students.
Then there are 18 students.
What's the deal?
Someone better come up with an accurate count out there.
What if there are students just not accounted for? That sounds sort of scary to me.
-
I echo your thoughts exactly. My daughter will come home after over a year in the Spring. I am and will be thankful everyday for the change. She was on a downward spiral and abusive to herself and her family.
The Whitmore has been our saving grace. As bad as things were, I can't expect any completely positive, happy clappy situation to have turned her around. She so needed a wake up call in a huge way. Now her huge potential can be realized. If one hasn't walked in those exact shoes, one can never know.
-
I don't understand: What "thoughts are you echoing?"
When did you last visit your daughter at Whitmore?
What real changes have you seen in her.
These parents posting are saying they too thought their sons daughters were better. But once they were home awhile, they began telling the parents what actually went on at Whitmore, and the stories are far from pretty.
Many of these parents discovered the school credits are useless, and their child had to take the GED or make up a whole year of "missed school."
Some students are in therapy to deal with the guilt of mistreating fellow students, or to deal with their own personal abuse.
Some are saying the problems they sent their child to Whitmore to be addressed has only been magnified if not extended.
Good luck---I hope you are right.
-
The posting on this site that states that the Attorney General has dropped the investigation against the Sudweeks IS NOT TRUE!!!!
The Attorney General only handles civil matters and is STILL investigating the Sudweeks for FRAUD etc.
The Sudweeks are still being investigated for child abuse and for sexual abuse.
The Attorney General can be reached at
801-812-5206 to verify that the investigation against the Sudweeks has not been dropped!!!!!
-
OK WHERE THE HELL DID SEXUAL ABUSE COME INTO THIS??? there was no sexual abuse there!!!!! what are you people thinking? and abuse?!!! there was no abuse!! and about the journal thing... the kids aren't allowed to write anythin negative in there and when they see an attitude change in the kids then they think that something is wrong and look into their journals. The journals validate negative feelings so they tell the kids not to write anything negative in there. seriously and for some of the boys that went there were spoiled rotten so if they didnt get what they wanted they would cry to mommy. and some of the kids there have an attitude problem so no one is quite fond of them who would want to hang out with a little snot? for real get a fuckin reality check. and dont try to twist my words around because you all know what i mean
-
On 2005-02-18 12:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Alumni, you don't consider it abusive to have a student's personal emails, letters and journals read aloud in GROUP for the purpose of having Cheryl Sudweeks to humilate and demean that student?
You don't consider it abusive to have Cheryl Sudweeks to tell a student in group that a student's parents do not love them, do not want them and do not care about them?
You don't consider it abusive when Cheryl Sudweeks gives the order "Get him out of here," and several boys take one student outside and begin beating the heck out of him as the rest of the students watch out the windows?
Guess you come from some really really bad backgroung if you can just write these examples off as NON-ABUSIVE.
Cheryl Sudweeks is not a therapist, and is not qualified to lead a group session. Her methods of doing so are emotionally, psychologically, and even at times, physically abusive.
Parents do have the RIGHT to be involved, and to ask questions, and to intervene. Parents have a contract with the Sudweeks that should assure that no abuse goes on period. But the Sudweeks do not honor their end of the contract...they think they can do as they please, as abusive as it may be.
But many parents have said--ENOUGH. This must stop."
I'd like to see Whitmore Alumni respond to these.T'is an ill wind that blows no minds.
--Syadasti
-
Whitmore Alumni, what do you mean "the kids weren't ALLOWED to write anything negative" in their journals?
Since when does anyone dictate what a person, even a student, writes in their own personal journals?
Do these kids at Whitmore have absolutley no rights to privacy whatsoever.
I can not even imagine anyone thinking they have the right to read someone elses journal, much less dictating what they can or can not write in a journal.
As for sexual abuse. You are surely old enough and bright enough to know that sexual abuse takes place in privacy. Not even the Sudweeks would be stupid enough to sexually abuse anyone in front of an audience. So of course you did not see that.
So you can not say that it happened or did not happen except that it did or did not happen to YOU.
-
youre a dumbfuck whitmore alumni. i spent over a year there and throughout my stay i was in groups when cheryl read kids journals allowed. for example lori. anyone remember lori's first journal entry? for those of u that dont we had group on it in the t.v room at the mansion. lori tried to get up and leave but cheryl made her stay. Her journal entry was read aloud while she had to sit in front of the whole group. she got the living fuck embarrassed out of her. i know that some of you know what im talking about. so when you get on here next whitmore alumni dont try an argue it because I WAS THERE. u must just have forgotten to mention the incident you fucking bitch.
-
Former student, I know you are very upset. My daughter's journal and her personal emails from home were read by Cheryl Sudweeks. The purpose: to humiliate her, to hurt her, and to make her cry.
The other purpose was for Cherly Sudweeks to tell her that her own parents didn't like her, so how did she expect anyone else to? We never wrote anything in an email to make our daughter think we didn't like her. So, we don't even know where that type of email would even come from. Any idea???????
Journals are private. Emails from parents are privae. Personal letters are private.
Where does this woman get off thinking she has the right to read anyone's private mail?
Think there might be a law against THAT too.
-
What I read you describing is so similar to the other "schools" out of UTAH.
The verbal humiliation referred to as theraphy.
The isolation rooms. Where do these people get off.Hoe dare they.
There are multilple lawsuits being filed against the Utah abusers for the fraud and harmed caused by the professionals in this Teen Help Industry.. Never ending it seems.
-
You said "lawsuits against......these professionals..."
I don't see a whole lot that would classify them as being professional at all.
What is professional about a woman like Cherly Sudweeks thinking she is qualified to run group therapy sessions? Nothing professional about that!
What is professional about opening other people's mail and emails? Nothing professional about that!
There's nothing professional about ordering a group of kids to beat up one kid.
There's nothing professional about making a kid, male or female wear "the clothes" as punishment and then taunting them out in a public place.
There's nothing professional about a grown woman getting into a fight, verbal and physical with town kids to the point the Provo Police are called to the scene.
There's nothing professional about calling a teenage girl a whore, slut, and spitting in her face--and Cheryl Sudweeks has done that.
I can't think of a whole bunch that could be considered professional that has gone on under the great leadership of Ms. Sudweeks and her husband.
-
NAME SOME OF THESE LAWSUITS.'
Maybe we could join in.
-
I was being sarcastic when I called the abusers professionals. So sorry.
I know as well as any one they are NOT professionals. They may sell themselves as such. Their NOT.
Sorry to upset you. If they abuse your child for money. Hold them accoutable.
As they pay and pay they may start to change the abusive practices so prevelant in this sick industry.
Utah's attorney general know what is happening within the "schools" in their state .They are slow to make changes.
Write to Senators and Congressman demand reform and legislation of their industry.It's a start.
They've allowed the New Begginings adoption business.
-
Yes! I am happy to talk to you. They saved my daughter and she loves them! You can call me any time at (407) 242-6187. If I miss your call, I will be happy to call you back!
-
Still believing that "poor me" victim story crap, huh?
Seems like a few parents need to go to The Whitmore.
-
I do not believe that the Sudweeks could control the minds of parents.
And I think that the last thing the parents would want is to face the parents of these children that they have mentally, emotionally, physically, and sexually abused.
What could they possibly say?
We didn't mean to abuse your kids?
Sorry?
No. We will just let the authorities in Utah deal with these people.
And this is not a "poor me" situation.
This is a "why aren't these Sudweeks in jail YET" situation.
And I do have a question.
Why can't any of you Sudweeks followers ever speak without using curse words?
Guess you have all been trained well by your great Christian leaders, huh?
-
I meant to say:
The last thing the Sudweeks would want to face would be the parents......
-
On 2005-02-23 09:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"youre a dumbfuck whitmore alumni. i spent over a year there and throughout my stay i was in groups when cheryl read kids journals allowed. for example lori. anyone remember lori's first journal entry? for those of u that dont we had group on it in the t.v room at the mansion. lori tried to get up and leave but cheryl made her stay. Her journal entry was read aloud while she had to sit in front of the whole group. she got the living fuck embarrassed out of her. i know that some of you know what im talking about. so when you get on here next whitmore alumni dont try an argue it because I WAS THERE. u must just have forgotten to mention the incident you fucking bitch."
your a dumbfuck i was there when lori's journal was read. who are you to say anything. fuck you. i bet if you knew who i was you wouldnt say jack shit. yea i was one of the kids there, and there was nothing to be afriad of so go suck a dick stupid hoe
-
To Whitmore Alumni:
After deleting all the horrific curse words---
your comments boil down to one major statement:
Cheryl Sueweeks was leading a group therapy session and read from a student's private journal.
First of all: Cheryl Sudweeks is not a licensed therapist. We parents were told and PAID FOR group therapy for our chidlren, and expected these sessions to be led by a licensed therapist.
Secondly: NO ONE has the right to read anyone's private thoughts and writings in their journals, NO ONE.
Whatever, Cheryl Sudweeks' reasoning may be--Lori had and deserved the right to privacy and should not have had her journal read aloud to the group.
No more than Cheryl Sudweeks should have read my 12 year old daughter's personal emails from her parents aloud in a group session.
This is just wrong, and no explanation from you can make it right.
And anyway-- why should you have to defend this woman anyway? You did nothing wrong.
Would you humiliate someone by reading their personal mail or personal journals aloud to a bunch of people just to humiliate them? I am sure you would not. So why defend someone who would and did?
And please, if you reply to me---try to not curse at me. Show respect.
-
Ms Harris,
Hope you don't expect much, since it seems Whitmore Alumni can't distinguish the difference between a fancywoman and a garden tool.If we had been born in Constantinople, then most of us would have said: "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet." If our parents had lived on the banks of the Ganges, we would have been worshipers of Siva, longing for the heaven of Nirvana.
--
-
Ms Harris,
Hope you don't expect much, since it seems Whitmore Alumni can't distinguish the difference between a fancywoman and a garden tool.The government is much more interested in preserving the purity of its ideology than it is in allowing patients to get effective medicine.
-- Ethan B. Russo, neurologist at Western Montana Clinic
-
On 2005-02-24 09:09:00, Whitmore Alumni wrote:
******* i was there when lori's journal was read. ... yea i was one of the kids there, and there was nothing to be afriad of so *****.
So then you think it's OK to read a kid's journal in front of their peers?
Alum, you've stated over and over again that no abuse ever happened at Whitmore. I'll remind you again that that's just what my daughter said when she was with the ex boyfriend who used to literally pimp slap her around in public. She honestly thought she deserved it or he was 'special' and needed understanding or some such. She wasn't lying and I don't think you're lying. But I don't think you're being any more objective than she was at the time, either.
No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
-
I almost find the postings from the two former student comical....
One calls the other a "hoe"
The other calls the other a "bitch"
Wonder what they would think if they knew it is actually two guys cursing each other??????
-
Oooooh! That would be even more cussworthy! It's just turble vulgar for a man to be refered to out of gender! Sorta on the level of making a boy wear a dress. Are girls upset if they dressed in pants? Not that I've noticed.
It's just that the feminine is still considered somehow a "lower status" state of humanity. A very important tool of some kinds of politics.
PS Vulgar translates as "common" To wit, nothin special 'bout it. Grows everywhere like weeds. Get out yer hoe.Those who control the past, control the future; and those who control the present, control the past.
--George Orwell
-
Erinys? RU sure? Or Erisian? :nworthy:
I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
-
It 's a fit .
:wave: The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.
--John Gilmour
-
It appears Cheryl and Mark's finishing school failed.
Girls you sound terrible. Clean up your act.
If I was your parents I'd want my money back!
Be nice.Dont swear. So tacky!!!!
-
To the parent that wants to chat: Do you accept collect calls? We are all broke after giving the Sudweeks all our money to pay them to abuse our kids.... when what we THOUGHT we were paying for was a quality education, and therapy!
Can we call you collect for little more talk about how well our money was spent?
-
joyce harris your an evil woman your probably going to end up in hell which i hope you do. your just a bitch that probably needs some dick but can't get any because no one wants you.
-
first off i as i said in the very first letter i wrote in here is that you people send your children there for behavior modification not to get treated like kings and queens. come on. be for real shut you mouths. you dont do anything about it so just shut the fuck up and get over it your kids who complain are just little pussies
-
Another shining example of the kind of Christian values you're being taught there, not to mention the complete lack of education you display. What exactly is it that these people are giving and teaching you and your parents for the money they're spending? :eek: Are there any credentialed or accredited teachers or therapists employed by the Sudweeks?
Its sad because you display so much of what is done to you and these other kids in group. Many of us have said that we recongnize so much of our respective programs in these "schools". It was going on 20 or so years ago when I went through it and its obviously still going on now. The similarities are just unbelievable. He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
--Albert Einstein
-
On 2005-02-25 09:17:00, Whitmore Alumni wrote:
"first off i as i said in the very first letter i wrote in here is that you people send your children there for behavior modification not to get treated like kings and queens. come on. be for real shut you mouths. you dont do anything about it so just shut the fuck up and get over it your kids who complain are just little pussies"
OK, so explain to me how the change in behavior is brought about. Specifically please. How do you forcibly change someones behavior and way of thinking? Surely you're not telling me that these kids go willingly, right? So then how do you accomplish this change? Is this what "having group on someone" who's been deemed to be not doing well in some area is about?Bigot: One fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ.
Webster's
-
Dear Anon,
Oh my goodness---seems like you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, didn't you?
I do not know how you, whoever you are, could possible know that I am an "evil woman." I do not know who you are---so I assume you do not know me. Evil? Wow.
I guess I should be grateful that you are concerned about my sex life and the possiblity that I might possibly be lacking in that area of my life. Well, I don't discuss my sex life on a public forum--but I assure you I have a lot of class, and I certainly do not refer to it as "dick..." and if that is your perception of sex, then perhaps you should take a really nice course in Human Sexuality and learn some self-repect for yourself.
And I most certainly am not locked away somewhere where the only way I feee "wanted" is by some cult-like FAMILY who controls my mind, body and soul.
But, if you do feel I am evil---since you seem to support such a loving, caring, Christian based program; shouldn't you be praying for me instead of attacking me?
-
You are so brave to attack my wife under the umbrella of an anom posting. You are obviously a graduate or current member of the sick Whitmore/Sudweek World, who has learned their cherished value of disrespect. It amazes me how crude and vulgar each of you sick supporters become as Joyce and I state the facts that show the Sudweeks to be the true cult, child abusing, sick people they are.
-
Whitmore Alumni:
How many times must it be stated that we parents sent our children to Whitmore Academy to be provided a quality educated at what the Sudweeks advertised as a FULLY ACCREDITED SCHOOL, which offered THERAPY by a licensed THERAPIST...and we did not bargain for Group Therapy to be led by a raving woman with only a high school education.
You show exactly what was taught there by referring to your "fellow students as PUSSIES" and by your consistent use of the the word "fuck"
Your anger and rage is apparent....doesn't seem like your time at Whitmore got a whole lot of your problems under control to me.
A student disclosing abuse is not a "pussie."
And you have your right to speak, and so does everyone else. I don't see anyone telling you to "shut the fuck up." So, respect everyone else's right to speak, too.
It appears to me, that everyone has respected, and responded to your comments.
-
Anon I would like to thank you for your posting. It just serves as a reminder to me how thankful I am for having Joyce in my life. Your posting reminds how grateful I am to have such a courageous, hororable, beautiful woman in my life. A woman of good values and judgements willing to stand against injustice.
I pity you and your worship of the "Sudweek Religion". One thing can be said for you, you certainly got the Whitmore Program.
-
Cayo: You asked about "certified, accredited Teachers at Whitmore."
The Staff page on the website, which shows pictures and lists teachers by first name only shows the following...FIRST NAME AND CLASS THEY "TEACH"
Mark Administration & PE Not Certified
Cheryl Administration & Dance High School
Venice Home Economic Mark's Mother
Tom Administration ?
John Admin. "heard he worked in a hospital
and rented a room at Whitmore"
Susan Adminsitration ?
Callie Eng & History Kids go to Provo
library to meet with her.
Pam Music/Piano Some kids say she was
only there 2 days long ago.
Darlene Home Eco Girls the Sudweeks "CLAIM"
they adopted. She lives in
Salt Lake City..has new baby
Mark S. Wood Shop Certified?
Ben Martial Arts Cetified ?
Jeff Aviation Sci. Sudweeks son-in-law
Not Certified
Trinity Horsemanship Sudweeks' daughter
"CLAIMS" she was trained under
Monty Robert,"The Horse Whisperer"
Laeysa Horsemanship Sudweeks'daughter,
age 17
Shayla Horsemanship Sudweeks' daughter
lives in Logan, Utah
Verne Carpentry Certified ????
Terry Mechanics Certified ????
Counselor Bernie Degree????
Proctor Eddie Former Student
Proctor Tori Former Student
Please NOTE: only one person, Callie "teaches what could be considered academic, or core classes" and this is done at a Public Library.
The Librarian in a telephone call stated that no formal classes are held at the Provo Library, and that the Whitmore students are simply regarded as "patrons of the library, and that she did not know a person by the name of CALLIE."
From the classes listed on the Whitmore site:
Carpentry, Mechanics, horsemanship, Martial Arts, Music/Piana, Dance, PE, and Home Economics, ---- this hardly seems like a "SCHOOL" that is focusing on quality ACADEMICS to me.
The Utah Office of Education has awarded Whitmore Academy "candidacy status" of accreditation. The accreditation is being audited at this time under the direction of the Superintendent of the Utah Office of Education, Dr. Patti Harrington.
I assume that she can answer any questions of who the teachers are at Whitmore, and what their creditials are.
-
On 2005-02-25 09:17:00, Whitmore Alumni wrote:
you people send your children there for behavior modification not to get treated like kings and queens.
I agree with you on this. The kind of people who usually fall for the EdCon pitch are people who really don't want to know the truth. You might make a comparison to some spoiled rich brat who cries to her rich daddy when she doesn't get her way and Daddy "fixes" it. Never mind how or who got hurt in the process. The little princess never has to think about those things.
However, not all of these parents are that crass. Just take a look at how the edcons advertise. Ask your parents (if you don't already know) who referred them to Whitmore and go look at the advertising. I guarantee nobody ever told them what it would really be like. Fact is, any of us parents could do just the same things to you that the Sudweeks do all for free right at home. But we don't because we know it would be wrong and illegal.
The only way they can get away w/ the deception is if we never talk about it. I'm not about punishing anybody. I just want parents who are worried about their kids to get the message that there really isn't any magical, mysterious cure out there. Shipping your kids off so you can't see what's done to them is no better, and in many ways far worse, than doing it to them yourself.
First management had plans and then strategic plans. Now we have vision, and we're only one small step from hallucination.
-- Ansley Throckmorton upon assuming the presidency of Bangor Theological Seminary in Bangor, Main per Information World 8-4-`97
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
youre still a dumbfuck whitmore alumni. talking tough like ur such a badass. i was there and u cant tell me what i saw. you would understand if you were a bit smarter but since you so stupid and nieve ill just let it go. but either way you cant justify shit like your trying to. so go suck a fucking dick asshole
-
Antigen, I looked at the advertising today of the person who referred us to Whitmore, Sue Scheff of P.U.R.E.---and the advertisement still offers no idea of what goes on at Whitmore or any treatment center.
Read it at:
http://www.helpyourteens.com/about_us.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/about_us.html)
What is amazisng is Scheff continues to promote herself "with a background in business and finance, combined with years experience in the medical field."
In the posting on this site on 12-27-2003 19:44:00---in An Excerpt from Sue Scheff's Deposition:
She admits that she lied when she said she held a degree in business and finance; and her so-called "medical training" was "special services in telecommunications, cafetria/kitchen" at a hospital where she worked.
I most certainly am not an attorney---but I can read. She admits in this deposition that she has no medical training. And as of today, Scheff continues to promote herself in this way.
One thing did catch my attention and that was Scheff's statement that "P.U.R.E. was created for a need of PARENT AWARENESS, or BUYER'S BEWARE in a DESPERATE situation."
NOw, if only we as parents had taken that statement literally when we first talked to Sue Scheff--- we would have never have stepped foot in Whitmore Academy!!!!
-
To the former student:
You are getting nowhere with Whitmore Alumni, who will continue to support the Sudweeks and curse and try to ridicule anyone who speaks against them. Ignore the remarks---
I believe you. I have heard the same things from my daughter and from other students who are home now.
We parents would appreciate more if you would not fight with someone who just wants to make you angry, and if you would try to help us understand what went on at Whitmore, and give us, and if you are willing, the authorities details that can help in the investigation.
You can send a private message if you prefer.
I understand you anger, and why it is difficult to control striking back. But don't. That is their game, and you don't have to play it anymore.
-
Could any of the former students explain this situation that happened to my child at Whitmore?
She took a framed photograph of her parents. Cheryl Sudweeks made her remove, and throw away the picture, but made her keep the empty frame on the desk.
Cheryl told her, that this was to remind her that her parents were absent, did not love her, and had signed a contract giving Cheryl total control over her.
Our daughter said that every day when she looked at this empty frame she was scared that she would never get to come home, and that we had left her there forever, and that we had signed papers giving the people there permission to do anything bad they wanted to do to her.
Did anything about photographs happen to any of you other students?
-
That's odd. I had a picture frame on my nighstand the entire time I was there, with pictures of my parents, pets, and friends on them.
I know for a fact Cheryl told some kids to put their pictures away but I never heard her tell a kid to toss them out. She told a few kids to put away thier pictures until it sunk in that they were in Utah and not at home anymore. I'm not calling your kid a liar, but I think she could be stretching the truth a taaad bit.
I know how it is out there, it gets really tough but from what I observed from a lot of the kids I lived with was that they tended to exagerate on how bad they had it. I did it myself for the longest time.
A lot of people on here have been going on and on about this "unconditional love" and "second family" type thing. I think you guys(critics and opposition) are taking the phrases a bit too literally. During my year, I honestly couldn't stand a lot of the kids I lived with. I wasn't punished or persecuted because of it either. I really only was close with a little more than 1/3 of the group. I didn't feel pressure to adopt this "second family" because I already have one I appreciate. The Whitmore for me was BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION, not a foster home.
Alright I'll end this right now, because I feel like I'm just rambling.
Anyways, I'm not here to launch into any arguments or namecalling. I've been reading these forums for a while now and I respect others opinions. I'm not here to fight.
-
Former student:
Thank you for your kind reply.
No, my daughter was not exaggerating. The empty frame was on the desk when we picked her up from Whtimore. I asked what happened to our picture,& that that is when she told her father and me what had happened to the photograph and WHY.
I appreciate your comments, tho. You are the first former student who has posted here that writes without using foul language. Thank you.
-
On 2005-02-26 08:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
Alright I'll end this right now, because I feel like I'm just rambling.
No you're not. Welcome. Thanks for the level, reasoned input. And please feel free to "ramble" as much as you want to.Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
-
I have a question for the "polite" former student:
You said you had been reading these forums for awhile. What is your take on the students' name-calling and very hostile attitude towards the former students?
Does this surprize you at all?
-
I totally think it's the wrong way to go about this "debate". Threats and swearing don't do a lot for your cause except strip you of your credibility and make you amd your cause look foolish. To tell you the truth, it doesn't suprise me at all. A lot of the kids were a bit on the dramatic side while I was there.
-
To the student, you said some of the students "had a dramatic side." From all the postings from the students at Whitmore and those home now. It seems obvious that Cheryl sets the tone and stage for most of the dramatics.
Don't you think that Cheryl targeting a particular kid to have "group on," or reading from their mail, or journals is what generates a lot of DRAMA?
The parents are very upset that they paid for professional therapy, not to have a woman with a high school education "playing therapist."
Parents, including yours, paid for a private school education---and it just does not happen at Whitmore...there are no REAL teachers there.
The Sudweeks signed contacts that no kids with a history of violence would be enrolled at Whitmore--and there were and are kids there who are very violent.
That is why parents are very upset.
-
I realize that. But I'm really not referring to the groups and what not. I'm just talking about how the kids acted period. A lot of kids blew up the stupidest, most inane situations for reasons I can't fathom.
-
You seemed to have survived your stay at Whitmore with a very objective view of things. So, you could just incorporate the injustices that you had to be seeing, and accept it all and with such a ho-hum attitude?
Sounds like you might have been "mis-placed" at Whitmore to begin with to me.
-
On 2005-02-26 20:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
A lot of kids blew up the stupidest, most inane situations for reasons I can't fathom. "
A reaction to being locked up with a bunch of crazy people who are constantly professing their "love" for the kid while summarily humiliating and degrading them in front of their "loving new family". Sounds like a typical reaction to an insane situation.Bigot: One fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ.
Webster's
-
[ This Message was edited by: Joyce Harris on 2006-04-01 11:10 ]
-
i think the former polite student is justin
-
Why would you think the "polite" student is Justin?
I'd think Justin would be calling a few people a few choice names myself, no spouting off a bunch of "middle of the road crap."
-
Were any of you parents ever "invited" to join a parents chat site while you kids were at Whitmore? I understand that this is a site where parents share information, pictures, and talk to each other to lend support and talk about how they feel about Whitmore and how their kids are doing. Were you ever invited to join this site? If you were ever a member what happened on this site--did you exchange email addresses, phone numbers? What was the purpose of this site? We were never invited to join. What was the criteria to be "invited?" Wasn't just being a PARENT criteria enough?
-
ok maybe i have gone about this all wrong. i am going to try to act in a more positive form. Yea i was there for anger issues major ones. and i have calmed down a lot. i dont even have half the anger that i had wen i went there. yes i lose my temper, who doesn't? yes i believe that there werent things that are right at the whitmore but yet there were things that weren't wrong and kids exagerate. and joyce i heard that your daughter wanted to stay but you took her by her hair and threw her out the door. the cops came and you lied to them. thats abuse, i don't see anyone investigating you about you abusing your daughter. and secondly why waste your time with the whitmore, no one was abused, no one died, no one went to the hospital for any injury caused by anyone there. leave it alone. a lot of parents are proud of their kids when they came back from the whitmore. mine are. and i put them through hell and back.leave them alone... for the sake of other parents who are trapped between losing their kid or sending them to the whitmore
-
Whitmore Alumni,
I do not want to argue with you, because we parents like your postings.
But you need to read the topic: The Truth Will Prevail.
This is posted by ISAC which firmly states that Mark Sudweeks lied, and stated that he was reading from a police report, which did not exist at the time....stating that I pulled my daughter down the stairs at the Whitmore the night we picked her up to bring her home.
The police offier wrote the report on February 15,2005 about him escorting us to the Whitmore on Nov 25th---and he tells exactly what happened, and I ABSOLUTELY did not pull my daughter's hair. Mark Sudweeks told a complete LIE.
I have not been investigated for abusing my daughter for ONE SIMPLE REASON: I have not, and do no abuse her.
IF you are going to use my name on your postings, the you need to go back and read what has been written completely. Only the Sudweeks have accused me of child abusek, and they use kids at the Whitmore to post these accusations.
Whoever YOU are---you do not know me, and you have absolutely no right to be asking questions about allegations that I abuse my daughter.
Mark Sudweeks lied about me, and he has been proven to be a liar.
I am happy for you that you gained some positive results from your time at Whitmore.
But as an Alumni--you need to know that you should only post things about other people that you YOURSELF know to be facts.
Thank you,
Joyce Harris
-
Whitmore Alumni,
You do not speak for our daughter.
You do not have the right, or knowledge, to decide what was or was not abuse directed at our daughter while she was enrolled at Whitmore Academy.
The authorities in Utah have been provided with statements, and are doing their investigation.
-
We were never invited to join this Parent Chat Group while our daughter was enrolled at Whitmore. Guess we weren't to be included in this "elite group." Perhaps we didn't come across as being Sudweeks Supporters---think maybe we "questioned the program too much from the get-go."
-
On 2005-02-28 10:08:00, Whitmore Alumni wrote:
and joyce i heard that your daughter wanted to stay but you took her by her hair and threw her out the door. the cops came and you lied to them. thats abuse, i don't see anyone investigating you about you abusing your daughter.
You heard[/b] wrong. But that's not surprising. Go and read what Joyce posted about this. Call the cops and ask them as I believe she's suggested (if you havn't Joyce, apologies).
So we shouldn't believe what we hear but it's perfectly OK for you to do that? Did you witness Joyce abusing her daughter?? Didn't think so.They know that it is human nature to take up causes whereby a man may oppress his neighbor, no matter how unjustly. ... Hence they have had no trouble in finding men who would preach the damnability and heresy of the new doctrine from the very pulpit.
--Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer
-
Sure, call the police officer: Nephi Police Department--- Officer Wright.
435 623-1626
Or just read the posting:
The Truth Will Prevail
Shelby Earnhart from ISAC checked it out and posted clearly that Mark Sudweeks lied when he said I pulled my daughter by the hair.
The story changed "a bit here."Whitmore Alumni says I was pulled her hair as I pulled her out the door. I think Mark Sudweeks said I pulled her down the stairs by the hair. Guess it's just hard to keep the lies straight.
-
Whitmore Alumni:
Just one other little fact that you need to have correct:
You said "the cops came and I lied to them."
Well, the cops did not come...we actually called the Nephi Police Department and asked for a police escort, and Officer Wright went with us to the Whitmore Academy at our request.
He was not called by anyone from the Whitmore to come there.
Joyce Harris
-
so why are you defending yourself so much? covering something up?
anger is a sign of weakness.
-
I am not angry at all.
It just takes a lot of effort to follow around behind Mark Sudweeks' lying ass, and the other Sudweeks' liars to keep the story straight.
That is all.
I do not have to "defend" myself, because I did NOTHING wrong.
It just takes a bit of typing to correct the lies. But I don't mind doing that.
When the Sudweeks' and their loyals tell so many many lies, it just takes a lot of TRUTH TELLING to counter it all.
Now if they would just follow their professed Christian faith and stop lying, I wouldn't have to do this, now would I?
And if they hadn't abused my daughter, and Joey I wouldn't have to be on this site at all, would I?
Now you have a nice, wonderful day.
-
Why are you using ANON?
I use my name, why don't you?
-
On 2005-03-02 10:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"so why are you defending yourself so much? covering something up?
anger is a sign of weakness."
Well FUCK!!! If someone attacks me, especially with accusations that I abused my own child, I sure as shit would defend myself!!!!!!!
Why are you so desperate to believe she's covering something up? Wow, that sure would shake your little world if Joyce's accusations are true now wouldn't it?The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst.
--Andrew Dickson White (1832-1918)
-
The charges we filed on behalf of our daughter are absolutely TRUE.
Making an explanation of LIES told about me that were expained explicitly by Shelby at ISAC under the topic "The Truth Will Prevail" which exposes Mark Sudweeks as a LIAR gives no one the right to say I am "covering up something" or that I am an angry person.
If I react with a "Why the fuck haven't these people been arrested for meantally, emotionally, physicall, verbally, and sexually abusing my daughter?" Then I am accused of being an irrational, mean, angry woman.
If I ask a logical question---I'm told I am dealing with idealist, unreasonable, illogical people.
If I ask a moral question--I'm told I am dealing with people who have the morals of a slug.
Well--I am dealing with people--Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks-- who my daughter reports abused her and made her abuse another child at Whitmore Academy. I choose to believe her.
I AM NOT being investigated for anything.
I do not mind explaining things, over and over to ANON who seems to lack basic reading skills---but I have nothing to defend.
-
Wouldn't it be interesting to hear Cheryl Sudweeks try and defend a few of her actions that some of these kids on this site have accused her of?
-
On 2005-03-02 20:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wouldn't it be interesting to hear Cheryl Sudweeks try and defend a few of her actions that some of these kids on this site have accused her of?"
Yes it would but it seems she feels its appropriate to allow the kids still under her control to come and defend her instead.
-
that's because she is nothing but a huuuuuuuge PuSsY! ha ha!
-
No, she is a coward and her behaviors are not defendable.
-
I love Whitmore!
I had the best time of my life and my birthday was fantastic. Cake, ice cream, clowns, and everything!
Once I hit puberty there, I was amazed at my progress and my Mom took me home.
...She no longer gets after me for eating my spagetti too fast.
:smile:
-
girl yo be so stupidz they be moromonz az whitmore11
-
Oh yeah? You don't believe me?
Hamburgers, ice cream, apple sauce and the whole ten yards!
Photo(s) here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/ ... itmore.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/BradBarron/birthdayatwhitmore.jpg)
-
gurl yo bee tripinn
-
o ye tis be meh
http://media.tsumeter.com/vimages/share ... tamika.jpg (http://media.tsumeter.com/vimages/shared/vnews/profiles/tamika.jpg)
-
Hello, my name is James Sadat.
I've been reading most of the posts listed in this topic and I've come to the conclusion that the white race is doomed and the Jews will once again rule the Earth under the sign of David.
For more information, check back later.
http://home.xnet.com/~jkelley/Turmenist ... dat423.jpg (http://home.xnet.com/~jkelley/Turmenistan.fldr/Turkmenistan.Images/James-Sadat423.jpg)
-
im jewish so don be messing with mah people
we will put jesuss on da cros agian!1
-
you people dont know her. SHE'S A GOOD PERSON! and shes not a coward. just leave her alone if you guys want answers ill be glad enough to give them to you. email me at
[email protected]
-
Shame on you, James Sadat!
Go play with your dradel in the corner.
Let's talk about Joyce Harris' pussy.
It's nice and fluffy and comes in assorted colors.
If I had a chance to suck on that slab of dead meat again, I'd pass and ejaculate on a frying pan and make pancakes.
-
On 2005-03-04 09:40:00, Whitmore Alumni wrote:
"you people dont know her. SHE'S A GOOD PERSON! and shes not a coward. just leave her alone if you guys want answers ill be glad enough to give them to you. email me at
[email protected]"
Why would we want answers from you[/i] to questions we have for Cheryl?
Why is she allowing the kids in her care right now to defend her instead of defending herself????To seek out the best through the whole Union, we must resort to the information which from the best of men, acting disinterestedly and with the purest motives, is sometimes incorrect.
Thomas Jefferson Letter to Elias Shipman and others of New Haven, July 12, 1801.
-
Reguarding the ignorant bastard who flamed Joyce Harris.
You made a mistake.
You'd rather make Tuna Helper than eat from her decaying reproductive sack.
-
http://www.mcdonalds.com (http://www.mcdonalds.com)
http://www.burgerking.com (http://www.burgerking.com)
http://www.jackinthebox.com (http://www.jackinthebox.com)
http://www.wendys.com (http://www.wendys.com)
http://www.arbys.com/images/ovenmitt.jpeg (http://www.arbys.com/images/ovenmitt.jpeg)
-
Dear Subway,
I'd like to complain about the progress I'm making using your diet program named after, well, me.
The sweet onion teriyaki gives me a bloated sensation in my rectile region and I'd like an explaination.
Yours truly,
Jared Foggle.
Oh shit, wrong website.
-
I can't believe you actually put food in that mouth
-
state says no case so now what?
-
I'M not in HER care... Thank you very much.
so as i said. If anyone has questions that would like to know what goes on at the whitmore
email me at [email protected][ This Message was edited by: Whitmore Alumni on 2005-03-04 13:47 ]
-
Thanks. So why do you think the Nephi PD hates Whitmore. Meant both ways; what leads you to believe it and why would they hate Whitmore?
Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce
-
SO WHAT NOW?: The police finish their investigation, there is a trial, and the good citizens of Juab County hopefully find the Sudweek couple guilty and they go to jail!
-
How can you answer for Cheryl Sudweeks? She is not a good non-cowardly person or she would not have kids talking for her.
And she would not have kids beating up kids for her.
And she would not have kids calling other kids on her cell phone threatening former students. This is 2005 you know, and people do have caller ID!!
And she would not have people on this site talking filthy about Mrs. Harris, who never uses cuss words when she posts.
Don't you people ever get tired of the word "pussy?" You over use it a whole lot.
It sure does help your cause of promoting this place as a loving Christain school in my book.
-
In reference to the posts made on:
3-4-05 at 9:42:00 and 9:47:00
The ANON poster(s) making the absurd, crude, mindless remarks--- that have no reference to an issues:
I can only hope that these postings did not come from the Whitmore Academy. If they did, it only cause absolute alarm that those children are in the care of even more mind-twisted, more dangerous people than I even imagined.
-
//It sure does help your cause of promoting this place as a loving Christain school in my book.//
They aren't Christian, they are Mormon. Mormons may call themselves Christian, but only to avoid the Cult label and gain some main stream acceptance. Mormons are not Christian and are actually quite repelled by the Cross of Christ.
This does make a difference. It is an important distinction. For Mormons, it is alright to lie if it will get the desired result. Also, the accumulation of wealth is considered evidence of their god's favor and so a wealthy man is considered a godly man. If he is wealthy as a result of lies, then god must approve the lies - or he wouldn't be wealthy - is pretty much how the thinking goes.
It must be admitted that such false doctrine is also now rampant in groups that could be called Christian. Also, some of the worst abuses in these private programs have taken place in programs that say they are Christian - often Baptist.
I would argue these are the Christians who will be turned away by Christ, as having used His name, but never known Him.
But the Mormon thing is something quite different. The Christian message of Salvation is entirely absent from Mormon teaching and the Christ they speak of is not at all the Christ of the Old and New Testaments.
I know lots of people don't care about this and I'm not trying to insist they should. However, others might care. I know I would.
-
Thank you for your posting. I am not a religious person, but I am interested in what is taught by the Mormons. I would be interested in anything else you know about them.
-
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 05-5361616 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565077172/qid=1110048369/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-4266105-5361616)
Not for Everyone, December 1, 1999
Reviewer: A reader
Being a Mormon for 27 years; I can tell you it is not easy for a Mormon to find out the fallacies of their religion. The Mormon people need to realize it is not the writings of people like Ed Drecker, but their so called prophets that continally contradict the bible and their own teachings.
I do not agree with many of these reviews that claim the book is full of lies--quite the contrary. However, I would not recommend anyone suggest this book to a "True Believing Mormon." True believers tend to be very narrow minded (take it from me I was one; and so are many in my hometown of Rexburg, Idaho, which is an extremely large population of Mormons). This is why I recommend a more loving approach to these true believers. "Mormonism, Mama, and Me" is a book that exposes the corruption in the foundation of the church in a much more loving approach for the "true believer." I was only able to read The God Makers after I had completely left the church--which was a long process and not something that happened over night.
This book is abbrasive; but after many years of research, I belive the truth can withstand scrutiny (it took me many years to come to this realization). Read this book for yourself if you so desire; I did enjoy it. But as I stated earlier do not use this book to witness to true believing Mormons; it is too abbrasive for people who have devoted their lives to not just a religion, but a lifestyle. I pray everyday for Mormons to open their minds and hearts so they may too see the lies in the foundation of the organization they belong to.
God Bless.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 05-5361616 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451401522/qid=1110048647/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-4266105-5361616)
Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
As part of a scathing depiction of a deceitful, materialistic Mormon Church, lawyers Naifeh and Smith (co-editors of the biennial directory The Best Lawyers in America , etc.) point out that the 1985 Salt Lake City scandals and bombings that convulsed the community had a precedent in certain dubious practices of the church's prophet and founder Joseph Smith. The suspenseful plot, involving a series of murders and a large cast of Mormons and police investigators, centers on the purchase and suppression by church officials of authentic and forged documents that cast doubts on basic tenets of their faith and attested to the cover-up of Smith's unsavory past. Under the threat of blackmail, the church bought many of these documents from the dealer-bomber Mark Hofmann; according to the authors, Hoffmann, after confessing the murders and forgeries, was allowed, thanks to the church's political influence, to plea bargain the murder indictment into a manslaughter charge thereby sparing the church an embarrassing trial that could have revealed its complicity.
Copyright 1988 Reed Business Information, Inc.--This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 05-5361616 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764227440/qid=1110048837/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/002-4266105-5361616)
Editorial Reviews
About the Author
Dr. Walter Martin held four earned degrees, having received his doctorate from California Coast University in the field of Comparative Religions. Author of a dozen books and a half-dozen booklets and many articles, Dr. Martin died in 1989.
Product Description:
The Leading Cult Reference Tool Now Completely Updated!
Major cults & religions covered: Jehovah?s Witnesses, Mormonism, New Age Cults, The Unification Church, Rajneeshism, Baha?i Faith, ISKCON, Hinduism, Transcendental Meditation, Buddhism, World Faith movement, The Theosophical Society, Apocalyptic Cults, Islam, Christian Science, and Unitarian-Universalism.
In an era of rapid cult growth worldwide, Christians today more than ever need the trustworthy information contained in The Kingdom of the Cults. This comprehensive new edition equips readers from every walk of life to use biblical truth to counter the efforts of cults to masquerade as mainstream Christians.
Included is all the authoritative data of previous editions as well as an analysis of the latest ideological and organizational developments of cults old and new. Updated statistics and references detail the alarming spread of the cults, particularly on the mission fields of the world. This edition also recounts the startling yet welcome embrace of orthodox Christian faith by the Worldwide Church of God. Readable and reliable to a wide cross-section of Christians?from teachers and pastors to lay believers trying to understand and witness to their neighbors, The Kingdom of the Cults is certain to set the standard for cult reference texts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.utlm.org/index.htm (http://www.utlm.org/index.htm)
comprehensive sorce of info
-
The above site above is a Christian ministry.
A variety of opinions on Mormons and Mormonism is here.
http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/ ... b_recovery (http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/index.php?site=exmobb&bn=exmobb_recovery)
-
Beloved Whitmore Academy
How I love you so
How we were all on the go
Doin' drugs and smiling, ho!
I wasn't doing good, but I found you
I smiled and you grabbed me with your firm grip
My breast itched with love for the dice
I didn't desire Vanilla Ice
Cheese, Beef, and Sandwhich meat
The Jewish Jesus smiled and hopped
Hopped and played with me and Barbie
Drove her in her limo, gave her a beer
Gave her everything she wanted, everything and more
I love you Whitmore,
I found Jesus and split-pea soup.
-
The abuse, rough and raw
The religion, strict and pointless
The beef stew, odd and cold
The sexual misconduct, pleasing and changing
The outcome of the staying, a smile on my cripped face
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
It does not seem fair to blame the religion of thousands of people for the criminal and immoral behavior of two people who seem to choose to make their living by conning desperate parents, and then by abusing their children once they get access to these parents' children.
This just does not seem fair.
People can say any religion is cult-like when people hide behind a religion to gain access to children for thier own criminal, and sexually deviant behaviors. This happens in many religions. Look at the Catholic Church today and all its problems, and no one calls it a "CULT." The Baptist religion has been attacked on this site, and no one calls it a "cult."
The Sudweeks seem to HIDE behind religion, and this is just one more area where they seem to be able to "not be questioned," because ONE DOESN'T QUESTIONS A PERSON'S RELIGION, NOW DO THEY?
The Sudweeks seem to make a mockery of religion, but that does not seem to make it fair game for criticism of every other person who goes to the same church that they hypocrite claim as their church.
-
The Parent's of WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR should feel happy that their approximately $50,000 for a year at Whitmore Academy's finest was so well-spent!
The student makes reference to the cruel abuse that takes place at the Whitmore, the horrible food, and illicit sexual activities that go on at the Whitmore,...and if taken literally, the "cripped face" may be making reference to the POETS gang affilations to the gang organization, The CRIPS.
Hope this kid is safe back home, and that he didn't just pick up where he left off.
-
Has anyone informed Sue Scheff at P.U.R.E. that she might need to inform any new referrals to Whitmore that the parents might need to send along a tent, sleeping bags, and portable toliets since approximately 42 people are packed in the "Mansion" now days. Seems the Sudweeks have been made to quit housing the kids down at the BOYS HOUSE and the "sleeping quarters" at the SCHOOL HOUSE. That's just allowed without a permit, and someone finally let the Sudweeks know that....Sure they already knew that...just didn't seem to care.
-
You're right, it isn't fair, especially since Karen Burnett (Buzzkill) is as guilty of psuedo-christianity as those she accuses in her post.
Bottom line is anybody who has read Karen's posts on Fornits will remember her filthy language and venomous attacks against a certain poster -- all the while working hard to sell Jesus as the answer to straightening out wayward teens (ALA).
IMO, she is a first-class hypocrite and I really wish she would get a life and stop using Fornits seemingly as her personal bully pulpit.
IMO
-
Where have I used filthy language?
You are entitled to think what you will of me - but you don't get to judge me - nor I you - and believe you this, thats lucky for you.
-
Pig to Bacon
Egg to food
Tears to joy
Hero to Jesus
Licks to beatings
I'm scared, my food is cold
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Truly wish Whitmore's Shining Star would talk to us, because I do not understand the message trying to be expressed in the poetry.
-
LOL Buzzkill ... guess you forgot about all those posts of yours which were deleted, presumably by yourself?
:roll:
-
To ANON who seems to post behind Buzzkill:
Do you think it was really fair to disclose Buzzkill's full name, IF that is really who Buzzkill is?
That just really seemed like a low, low blow to me. Why did you do that?
-
There's a lot in that poetry. Almost spells out the abuse, lack of food, the horrible conditions of that place and the twisted condition of the kids' minds after being there.
-
I never used filthy language.
I have refered to the Bock Bitch, and the WWASP whore; all very apt phrases for the anon ass hole who sold her hard drive to wwasp for 12,500.00; thus provideding wwasp with thousands of personal and private emails, from dozens of people, who had been nothing but helpful and supportive of her efforts on
behalf of her sons.
I don't think this rises to the level of filthy language.
If you feel differently anon, you might want to take your extream sensitivites elsewhere.
-
Poet: are you a former student of Whitmore?
-
On 2005-03-07 11:59:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"I never used filthy language.
I have refered to the Bock Bitch, and the WWASP whore; all very apt phrases for the anon ass hole who sold her hard drive to wwasp for 12,500.00; thus provideding wwasp with thousands of personal and private emails, from dozens of people, who had been nothing but helpful and supportive of her efforts on
behalf of her sons.
I don't think this rises to the level of filthy language.
If you feel differently anon, you might want to take your extream sensitivites elsewhere.
"
Careful now Buzzkill, IMO your ignorance AND your ugly, mean-spirited persona are beginning to surface again .... before you know it, you will be erasing all your posts and using another nic.
:wave:
-
Idiot anon -
Its not my ignorance, but rather your rude, self absorption showing.
This forum and this thread are not about me, you, or any of the things you want to harp on about.
It is rude and selfish for you to try and turn every thread I post on, into a debate about who I am, who I am friends with, and deleted posts. It's also very weird.
Why do you care so much if anyone edits or deletes a post? What possible difference does it make to you? Why does it eat at you so? It's really very strange the way to are so obsessed with someone else's posts.
Seems a bit unbalanced.
I am not a mean spirited person - but I do hold you in contempt - and I have a lot of company.
-
Anon who follows Buzzkill: I wish you would read the issues here, and use the energy you put forth on dogging this person into to help parents understand some of the Whitmore mess. From you posts it seems you have been around this teen industry business awhile. We parents are trying to understand how we got sucked in, what we can do about the harrassment we and our kid are getting now that we have them home, what are our options to help make sure not more kids are referred there again.
There has to be something productive you can do rather than all this name-calling to buzzkill. If you have some kind of problem with this person, and you definently seem to know who it is since you revealed her name--call her and talk about it!
-
On 2005-03-08 06:54:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"Idiot anon -
Why do you care so much if anyone edits or deletes a post? What possible difference does it make to you? Why does it eat at you so? It's really very strange the way to are so obsessed with someone else's posts.
I'm not the anon who you were speaking to, but I can venture an opinion as to why people get upset when posts are deleted. The only way they CAN be deleted is by the original author. If you go around deleting a bunch of your previous posts, it makes people wonder what it is you said that you feel you can't stand behind now.
My 2 cents.
-
I agree with the other ANON and think the person who just wants to fight with Buzzkill needs to take his/her fight somewhere else. It does get a bit boring and silly. It is almost like stalking someone. I would say, get a life, or find a new subject to chat about, myself; or give some input here if you have some real interest in these kids at Whitmore Academy.
-
Go back and read some of this poetry. If this is written by a current, or former student at Whitmore, it is telling us a whole lot about this place, and some of it is pretty scary. And some of the issues need to be discussed.
-
//I'm not the anon who you were speaking to,//
Really? And we're just to take your word for it are we? No thanks. I'll continue to believe as I please about you anon.
//but I can venture an opinion as to why people get upset when posts are deleted. //
Oh - I am Sure you can.
//The only way they CAN be deleted is by the original author. If you go around deleting a bunch of your previous posts, it makes people wonder what it is you said that you feel you can't stand behind now.//
If it makes you so crazy wondering - get the bag off your head and fire me off an email, or PM, or give me a call - and we'll talk about it.
I venture to guess, I'll not be bothered by you - b/c you haven't got the intestinal fortitude to stand behind your own words. :roll:
-
Damn lady. Settle down. I'm not the anon who has been posting after you. I wasn't even speaking necessarily about you. I don't know who the hell you are (other than the name that was posted in this thread but that doesn't mean anything to me). I was just making a point about deleted posts.
Chill. Not everyone here is out to get you. I can't say that I disagree with much of anything you've posted.
-
The thirsty begger collects my tears
Drinks them to survive
Jesus looks down at them angered
He is not happy with us
Cold food, moldy bread
Oh I wish I could be fed
My tears are gone and it's alright
I'll be gone before my flight
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Hamburgers cold with mold
Salad a distasteful delight
Jello warm with maggots
Water full of lead
Will their savior prevent their crimes?
I do not know him
With his golden crucifix in the sky
I will not fly
I will not die
Because I must survive this camp
Like the Jewish did
I'm cold, the porkchops are ready
-
Momma, she made me call her
I couldn't help the buckled whip in your hand
Red marks on my cheeks
Red marks on my nose
Pancakes with no butter
Pancakes not warm, but cold
I'm dyin' for some peach cobbler
I'm dyin' for something warm
Kellog's Corn Flakes even, maybe
I couldn't care at all
The place of tainted wisdom scarred me
I will never be the same
I'm in the grass now
Holding tight
Because this evening, the dreams will fright
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Guess some people don't know a snake in the grass when they see one ... or the proverbial sheep in wolve's clothing (yes, talking about Buzzkill again). :roll:
Look, why do you think parents send their kids to "troubled" programs? Spend thousands of dollars on abusive care and treatment all the while drinking the koolaid and recruiting more parents to abuse their kids?
Because they are stupid? I don't think so.
Beware of the program apologists and the snakeoil salesman who dispense advice (or sermons) on Fornits. They are not here to help you or your kids. They are here to sell their "brand" of teen help programs by bashing and trashing their competition and sometimes, quoting scripture ad nauseum.
Get you and your kids some real therapy ... not the kind that comes with glossy pictures, testimonials and a "parental agreement" demanding that you sign away the basic rights of your own child.
Be especially careful of programs that sell Jesus as the way to straighten out wayward teens. In my opinion, faith-based locked boarding schools are a breeding ground for abuse of the worst kind.
imo
-
I hope that any parents who are reading this forum to help them make a decision about whether or not to place their child in any treatment program will heed your advice, and seek treatment at home, and keep their child away from these programs. The MORE religion they spout, the MORE you should BEWARE. The more "caring and nice the referring person appears" the more you should BEWARE. These people are thinking about YOUR MONEY....not YOUR CHILD.
-
anonymous writing those poems sounds like a "trapped soul" at the Whitmore.... :???: :???:
-
I do not believed that the "poet" is from Whitmore because Cheryl Sudweeks controls all communications that come in and go out of Whitmore Academy. I do not think that she would allow this type of poetry to be posted from there that criticizes the school--not at all.
-
Dried bacon on a grill
Potato skins, oh what a thrill
Fertile babies of chicken kin deep in my skin
Kellog's Fruit Loops save me from the stone grub
Peach cobbler no where in sight
I'm thirsty for some Juicy Juice
Stuff my Momma forbids
No I'm no longer here anymore
But I still feel the effects
Frozen burritos old with age
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
The delicate taste of a strawberry popsicle reminds me of summers at home
The taste of soap pleases me against my will instead
No chicken nuggets or hot pockets, just stale meats and dry rocks
I want a popsicle, Momma, I say
But she is the caretaker of this tainted place
Sweet corn and yams
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Papa Sudweeks holds a warm, frosted cinnamon bun
Momma Sudweeks laughs as I am treated like their dog
I beg and beg for the hot bakery treat
I beg and beg and wallow in defeat
Both sharing the treat that should've been mine
I could've weeped, but I didn't I will not wine
Because the Sudweek caretakers will never be mine
Their rooms sell like hot cakes in a cold town made cozy by a small flame in a fireplace
-
I have a splinter in my finger and I don't know what to do
I have a splinter in my finger and I don't know what to do
I have a splinter in my finger and I don't know what to do
Get the tweazers, get the tweazers
Get the tweazers, get the tweazers
Pull it out, pull it out
Pull it out, pull it out
Cover it with a bandaid, cover it with a bandaid
Cover it with a bandaid, cover it with a bandaid
Do I get a lollipop?
Do I get a lollipop?
No Mamma says, no Mamma says
No Mamma says, no Mamma says
Keep building my bench, keep building my bench
Keep building my bench, keep building my bench
Do what I say and you won't get hurt, do what I say and you won't get hurt
Do what I say and you won't get hurt, do what I say and you won't get hurt
Say you love me, girl, say you love me, girl
Say you love me, girl, say you love me, girl
I love you Mamma, I love you Mamma...
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
I am a potato in a bowl
Waiting for my mashing
Waiting for my butter to soothe the horrid crushing
I become fluffy
Oh so very fluffy
Mold me into what you want, Momma
I'm ready for my feeding
Rotten mice and uterus lips
Moth balls and pain killers
Mashed potatos are hurting in their bowl
They're hurting because of you
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Whitmore's Shining Star email me at [email protected] and tell me who you are.
-
Of course parents don't send their kids to treament centers because parents are "stupid," and kids aren't sent there because most of them are "bad." Everyone is looking for answers, education, and psychological treament.
Sure, after the fact, parents know they should have kept the kid home and worked it out through out-patient care etc etc.
BUT, why can't a place like Whitmore deliever what it promises? At about $4,000 a head X 40 kids---why can't they really hires certified teachers? Hire a few licensed therapists? Hire a cook or two and furnish real nutritious meals---public schools do it every day! Hire a cleaning lady or two--hotels do it every day! There, there you have it: A real school, a real therapy program, a clean place, good meals. And guess what? The Sudweeks still have a nice fat pay check!!!! OH, and if you remove all that stress out of the UNQUALIFIED Cheryl trying to be a TEACHER, A HOUSE MOM, A PSYCHOLOGIST, A CHAIN GANG LEADER THAT DISHES OUT ABUSE CONSTANTLY...maybe she can calm down and not abuse kids all day long; and her husband Mark can quit his abusive activities too. They could just be what they should be: little Head Master and Head Mistress of a Private School
-
whalen has a bag on her head lolz1
-
omg she doz?
-
brads got a little winky
-
whalen gotz preggnantz @ whitmore
u suk1
-
The Hot Pocket has worms
The lemon merange pie is sour
The tuna casaroll is ridden with rats
Oh, I wish nelahw could tell you
Momma, can I please have a cupcake?
Oh, Momma, can I please have a slice of Kraft cheese?
Oh, Pappa, put the belt down.
-
okay i cant sit here and listen to this so called poets sob story any longer. oh papa put the belt down??
wtf is all this about... ohhh please give me a cupcake? You sound like a baby to me. This is nothing but propaganda.. suggesting that mama is cheryl and papa is mark. Stop writing 'poems' and starting writing facts.
When did Mark Sudweeks ever hit you or threaten to hit you with a belt? The real Mark is too tired and washed out to even care
I'll state this as a fact.
YES! The food sucked.
YES mice poop was found in rice once.
YES we had chicken all the time.
NO we're not at the RItz Carlton.
Now, the real question is whether or not its abuse to serve bad food. I think not...
chris
-
Well, Hello Chris,
Welcome back. It is nice to see a well-spoken,intelligent, former student of Whitmore back on the forum, again.
Now, you KNOW, none of us parents could directly speak to this "poet" the way you just did. We would be accused to attacking a young Whitmore student who is trying to speak his/her mind in a creative, self-expressive manner, and we would be called all sorts of terrible names.
Was there REALLY rat shit in the rice?
Chris--that is a bit beyond "sucky food." That is a major health risk. Visible rat shit is a pretty good "sign" that there are other serious health problems lurking in the kitchen there. And the temperature required to cook chicken to meet health standards is a health issue too...that is a problem Chef Cheryl needs to read up on for the "Crock Pot Room."
If you haven't read all this "poetry," it is a bit much....and some of it is scary. You did a good job ob interpreting this one. Perhaps you could tackle a few of the other poems too--and tell this reading audience what the "poems" might mean... like what other abuses is the poet trying to point out?
-
On 2005-03-10 10:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
Now, the real question is whether or not its abuse to serve bad food. I think not...
chris"
No, the more basic question is who's f***in who and where'd the money go.Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
--Thomas Paine, American revolutionary
-
I have to ask:
You stated that Mark "is tired and washed out."
What exactly does that mean? My dictionary defines "washed out" as "complete failure; fiasco" Oxford American Desk Dictionary
Are you the official spokesperson for Mark Sudweeks these days? IF SO, I could not agree with your assessment of him more.
Just asking.
-
Chris you say MARK IS TOO TIRED AND WASHED OUT TO CARE. Now when have you ever heard anyone accusing Mark Sudweeks of caring? Now that IS a joke.
-
seems like the money went to buy rice for the f***ing rats.
-
personally i am not surprised at all that there are mice in the mansion. It is, after all, a very old building. Also, rice can be stored long term.. If a big bag of rice is stored for 6 months its likely some mice will get in to it. When I say Mark is washed out, and I stand by this, I'm saying that he's just straight up tired. I could never run a house with 40 teenagers. I'd be miserable.
The poet is blatantly lying in her poems and bringing up issues that were never of concern. Who has ever accused Mark Sudweeks of absue, mustless taking out a belt. What I want to know is if this poet is trying to accuse Mark of beating her with a belt. That is a SERIOUS allegation. I think the poet is ignoring the more minor issues that actually do exist, and taking the poems as an oppurtunity to flat out lie. And like I usually say, I am not trying to defend anyone... I just know the environment I was living in, and I dont buy into the poets sob story.
chris
-
So.... you know the poet is female?
Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
-
waiting for my mashing?
oh how i wish i could tell you?
Guess what buddy, I talked to my friends everyday at the whitmore. There are phones everywhere, and two pay phones within sight of whitmore. You can tell anyone whatever you want. And if you were Whitmore's shining star, which I'll interpret as someone who pretended to be happy, etc... then you'd obviously have unmonitored phone calls just like everyone else. During my stay at Whitmore only a small handful of kids had monitored calls, and it was very informal.
I'd like to say that I've seen a few legitimate issues brought up, however, the majority of what I've seen just isn't true. This "poet" is completely bizzare. She compares Whitmore to the holocaust prison camps in Europe... I think its safe to say that you obviously haven't seen much of the world.
-
also, i wanted to clear something up in regards to censorship, etc.. Like I said in my last post I talked to friends back home everyday. Its not very hard to walk out the door, go across the street, and dial collect. In fact, its just as easy to do this at the whimore as it is to do it from home. The point I am tryin to make is that it is extremely easy to contact whoever you want whenever you want. What about when the whitmore is at the mall, movies, cosco, etc..
-
No one would dispute how easy it is to have phone access. It is the consequences you face after making the call if it got back to Mark or Cheryl. Sending emails was the same way. They could definitely be sent, but you better hope and pray Cheryl did not find out! It is also easy to run away,open door policy, but when you got back...look out!
-
PHONE CALLS, EMAILS, MAIL was/is monitored. That is a dead issue. Cheryl Sudweeks monitors it all.
And if you do get caught--it is trouble. Everyone there saw what happened to Hannah and Camille. All Hannah did was send and email, and Mark caught her. She got the hell beat out of her.
Austin got caught making a phone call home while at Sundance, and everyone knows what happened to him, TOO.
YOU JUST DON'T DO THAT.
No parent agreed to have their phone calls monitored by Cheryl Sudweeks. NOT ONE PARENT AGREED TO THAT!
-
HOw do you know the poet is female? Could be a guy. Most poets are male--look at a few English books, very few ladies there.
About the mice: many people live in restored homes in magnificent neighborhoods across the United States, and I guarantee you they do not have MICE running about their homes. OLD does not EQUAL nasty and unkept, and unsanitary and unsafe!
And most people have the common sense to store food in airtight, containers with lids on them. That doesn't require a high IQ to figure out. The Sudweeks do CLAIM to have a couple of Home Economics TEACHERS on the payroll--they should know about THAT! Food Safety is probably taught in Home Economics 1301
-
Cheryl, why can't kids call home without you monitoring and listening in on the calls? What are you scared of? These families have money. Why can't they just have cell phones, and call anyone they want to?
-
are you kidding. what are you people after? im hearing different stories. i thouht you were concerned about not enough monitoring now im hearing why are you monitoring them so close. i am looking for a good program. what are you saying.
-
i forgot. the part you are saying about money. is money the motivation here. gmom are you out of money and you see an opportunity to sue the sudweeks. you seem like a very ungrateful person to me. not the sweet grandma you are trying to come off as. i dont get why you would leave your daughter with these HORRIBLE PEOPLE for almost 2 years. she graduates, goes to college, and months later you are upset, about some of the things, your daughter( who happened to have a HUGE problem with manipulation, and lieing) is Claiming to have happened. Wasnt her problem bad enough that you didnt even take her to the academy. Didnt you have her escorted at a very early time in the morning with only a few minutes to pack. sounds like the problem was pretty serious at home. by the way how come mom isnt saying anything? you are a bit off on your perspective. is there no issue around the abuse she recieved from you. STRANGE
-
guess what! alot of kids have cell phones. most kids arent monitored. and when i was in the program nobody was monitored. its kind of obvious why people like joey and leah have to be monitored and have no freedom. i quess you could answer your own question with this question. why dont you give a killer a gun. why dont prisoners have any freedom? freedom through dicipline
-
Weren't these kids STUDENTS? Now you are calling them "killers" and "prisoners." come on.
-
shouldve known you wouldnt get the message. are you smoking pot this early.
-
i think this is where we have all been getting jerked around by these choice people antigen and joyce and gmom. they are changing what everybody is saying to paint a false picture. i will not come to this website any longer it is EVIL
-
we all have our differences. and im pretty aggrivated with the log in. it wont let me!!!!
-
On 2005-03-11 07:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i think this is where we have all been getting jerked around by these choice people antigen and joyce and gmom.
And let's not forget Leah, Erica, Joey, the Nephi PD, at least one licensing agency, the Canadian courts (twice!) a few parents and various and sundry occasional anon posters. Hell, one of these folks hasn't had anything to do w/ you people for something close to 20 years now. What's THAT all about? And who else is out ta' getchya? The Mexicans, I hear? Any truth to that?
But, somehow, you have convinced yourself that none of that is happening, none of those people exist and all your trouble goes back to me? What the hell have I got to do w/ any of this? I'm just asking questions about what you're selling over there. If you're going to sell a service, don't you expect people to ask questions about it?
With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
On 2005-03-11 13:30:00, Whitmore Alumni wrote:
"we all have our differences. and im pretty aggrivated with the log in. it wont let me!!!!"
What sort of trouble are you having w/ it? It does depend on cookies to retain state (stay logged in). W/o allowing cookies, you just have to log in each time you want to post. Please let me know if that doesn't clear up this issue.Come the millennium,
month 12,
in the home of greatest power,
the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
--Nostradamus
-
the thing is I have to post something for me to log in
-
Hello everyone Im a former student of the whitmore and I need to put my two cents in. I see a lot of parents come on here because they are mad the whitmore wasn't what they thought it would be. All that shit parents see in their brochures is bullshit. You all need to understand that Cheryl dictates EVERYTHING. If she is in a bad mood that day (which she usually is because she never sleeps) all plans are cancelled. I'm just trying to clear that up with you concerned parents because I think a lot of you had the impression that this was going to be a year long getaway for your kids.It's nothing like that at all because it's a PROGRAM. A lot of you parents say "we had no choice". I think that is bullshit. Go and get some real help if your kid has problems. Don't send your children to that hell-hole.
PS- Fuck You Cheryl
-
Former Student: thank you for your two cents worth. It's worth more than that! Parents aren't mad because "it wasn't what we thought it would be." We are mad because we bought into something we THOUGHT WOULD HELP YOU KIDS. We were so very wrong, and you kids paid a big price for our errors. We pray you can forgive us.
We are trying to assure that no other kid, like you has to ever again write these words.
-
who are you? its terrible that youve become such a belittled person.
-
So, this former student is "belittled" if he/she says something negative about Whitmore, or uses the "f" word, but it is OK for students from Whitmore to cuss like drunken sailors? Double standard here? I think the former student sounds a bit more "well."
-
ok some how I fixed my logging in problem.
For all those people who love drama and arguments.... please, get a life.
::argue::
-
The funny thing is the kids from the whitmore are not allowed to curse but they can say PUSSY. I always found that funny when I was there ...
-
On 2005-03-13 10:19:00, Whitmore Alumni wrote:
"the thing is I have to post something for me to log in"
That's one way, but you should be able to use the login link near the top of the page. Please let me know if you're still having any trouble. But please either email me or post to the "web forum hosting" forum. I'm not at all sure I can keep up w/ the spamming we've been taking lately and I don't want to miss any legit tech support requests.
ThanksIt is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
Thomas Jefferson
-
On 2005-03-13 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"who are you? its terrible that youve become such a belittled person."
That's an odd usage of the word "belittled". Is that part of Whitmore lingo?That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.
--Thomas Henry Huxley, English biologist
-
Ranch dressing is all I have
To cover the cold bacon instead
Orange Juice is cranberry, cause they said so
Pappa and Momma are eatin' english muffins
While I mop the floor with my dress
I mean a rest
Can I pretty please have a cupcake?
Momma, can I please have a cupcake?
I'm french
You don't care
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
I was bakin' Mah some eggs one day, when I heard the chicken cry about her life
She told me she was pregnant and that she wasn't a wife
I told her to be quiet about it, and say it was a lie, but Mah found out and cracked at me, the belt hit my lip
nelahw told the students, they thought I was alive
But when Santa Claus came down that year, I sat down and cried
The stocking was filled with condoms, I was called a whore
nelahw is the cause of the rumors and I hope she bakes my eggs someday
Oh, I hope she bakes my eggs someday
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
P.S. I'm going to overdose of drugs.
-
Salad Dressing, Perfect Blessing by Whitmore's Shining Star
Salad Dressing was a perfect blessing when I was in the stable. Clenching my stomach in famished humor, I could use a bowl. A bowl of oatmeal, bowl of General Mills Wheaties, bowl of anything- hot or cold.
Salad Dressing was a perfect blessing when I came home from the lake. I was cold, my legs were a hurtin' and words I was a blurtin'. The sweet, sour, thick, creamy, dream of the bottle came into my mouth with a packaged titled. Paul Newman, Ranch, or Kraft. I don't really care.
My eggs have been baked, my eggs have been fried, now Mamma, I've come to die.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
P.S. Catie Whalen was my friend. :cry2:
-
O so whalen was your friend?
anyone else in this frickin forum know her too???
-
I knew Whalen she is a wacko!
She pulled a knife on P.J
She always tried to beat leah up.
and if you pissed her off she would go after you when no one was looking.
she was intimidating
-
On 2005-03-15 09:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
P.S. I'm going to overdose of drugs.
Please don't. I won't lie to you and tell you it gets better. But you do get better at it. Hang in there, ok? :cry: In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."
--Thomas Jefferson 1798
-
We are to assume Whalen is another ex-student at Whitmore??? So this is just more un-conditional love spuring out towards her? Wonderful, just wonderful.
-
Oh mama oh mama
Why do I cry and complain like a baby?
Where is my cupcake oh please where is my cupcake
While the kids in Jamaica eat old fish and rice all day
My steak at Golden Corral has no sauce
So now I must die
I wrote your next one for you :smile:
~ Chris
-
oh no! Chris crawled down your throat POET last time.
-
Chris wants his chicken
Chris wants his rice
Chris wants his pancakes all fluff and nice
There is no syrup, Mamma says
There is no syrup, Chris begs
Hungry Jack has given Chris a glimpse at god
Glimpse at god in that scary place
Mamma and Papa hides the batter under their bed
Oh, Chris dares not go there
Oh boy, he won't go there.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
What exactly is this supposed to mean?
~~ chris
-
Chris, are you taking English at college? Maybe you should take this to your English 1301 professor and ask him/her, "What do you think?"
NOT EVERYONE gets a poem dedicated to them. Sort of scary, isn't it? And from one of your Whitmore Alumni it seems.
-
whitmores shining star is pathetic and thats all there is to it. they cry like a baby everytime. just shut the fuck up. chris is right though that this kid is pathetic
-
On 2005-03-17 09:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What exactly is this supposed to mean?
~~ chris
"
Honestly, I'm really not sure. I think it's sort of an inside joke that I'm not privy to.None of Nature's landscapes are ugly so long as they are wild.
-- John Muir
-
Can always tell when it's one of Whitmore's "finest.".....bad words, bad words.
-
Once I made a BLT...
Crispy with bacon, lettuce, and tomato.
Momma wanted one too, so I made her one.
Pappa wanted me too, so I made him one.
The bacon wasn't crisp, she said.
The lettuce wasn't crisp, he said.
The tomato wasn't ripe, they both said.
I'm not making you another, I replied.
The belt was not used, but they smiled.
That smile followed me like an aimless ghost.
I want some Kellog's Corn Flakes, because my throat hurts.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
crying again u bitch
-
Assume a Whitmore student is back! Calling names, so the assumption must be correct! Cherly's influence survives! This student/poet has a LOT to cry about, you know.
-
then let them cry about it to a counselor not a forum
-
We are here to read and listen. If it bothers you, then go away.
-
Maybe the poet's parents spent all their money for counselors at Whitmore, ever think about that?
-
I had a popsicle for the first time in a long time.
It was cherry, I think. I forget such a delightful taste.
I don't eat cold hamburgers and false fries anymore.
Mamma and Papa Sudweeks can't hide the ketchup anymore.
Chris stole the pudding once and P apa spanked him.
Doritos are good, but messy.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Chris says no hitting went on, Poet. Are you sure Papa Sudweeks spanked Chris?
-
I heard my voice for the first time today.
It has been over a year.
A year of fear and torment.
A year eating cold hot dogs and gravey rice.
I don't have to make BLTs anymore and I can hear myself sing.
Pickles for pleasure, not for punishment.
Whalen met me at the park today.
We played fetch with her dog Marksie.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
im not for or against the whitmore, whitmore's shining star is just a bad poet and its fucking pathetic. so dont tell me to go away because ur not the only one with a fucking opinion douche
-
Maybe it's just over your head...
Fear believes--courage doubts. Fear falls up the earth and prays--- courage stands erect and thinks. Fear is barbarism---courage is civilization. Fear believes in witchcraft, devils and ghosts. Fear is religion, courage is science.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
-
And you need to not cuss me, OK.
-
The poet is making things up. I never stole pudding, I was never "spanked."
I'm a little creeped out that she's using my name in her poems.
-
Have we established that this poet is a SHE? Most poets aren't you know?
-
I think Annie needs to shut her mouth.
-
Who is ANNIE?
-
that was rather fast
-
Just reading along. Who is Annie?
-
Ick, these pickles are sour.
Can I please finish it in an half an hour?
Give me that time to run away.
Cross the bridge into the sea.
Get out of here.
Far away.
Beyond the dawn of day, and dusk of night.
I can live with the fish and wolves.
I can live without these rules.
Spagetti noodles are slippery when fresh.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Whitmore's Shining Star: your poetry really makes Whitmore students angry when you include names. Do you know who ANNIE is?
-
I don't want anyone to be mad.
I don't want to be had.
I don't see the mad.
I don't mind the cat.
I have cheeseburgers in the fridge.
Ann is fate.
No thank you, I've already ate.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Your poems are completely pointless.
-
No poetry is pointless. Ever taken an English course?
-
the poet is trying to sound good but just isnt
-
On 2005-03-29 18:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Your poems are completely pointless."
I disagree, I think there is much more there than you give credit. I also think they bother you for the same reason. No one else appears to have the same irritation as you. Why is that? There have been many more distasteful things posted than the little quips by anon. If they bother you so much just scroll, scroll, scroll and move on. Or maybe...think about "why" the poet bothers you so much. I would rather read why it bothers you so much than, "Shut your trap!" We are all here to express, even "the poet". So tell us...Why do the poems irritate you so much?
-
I wasn't talking to the poet. I know who the poet is and vise versa. but she knows who im talking to.
on another subject: Annie is a girl at the whitmore who always sucked up to Rob and Whalen and craved attention.
-
Whalen likes bacon bits and so do I.
She likes them on her salads, as do I.
She doesn't like fish sticks, because they're hard.
I like them because they're soft.
Remember the park, Whalen?
Remember the random chick looking for its mother hen?
I'd like a bowl of soup if you wouldn't mind...
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
The bathroom is taken.
I can't go in.
Mamma and Pappa are doin' somethin' naughty.
Mamma and Pappa are doin' somethin' naughty.
It's not the french toast.
It's not the french toast.
Get the butter, I'll get the syrup.
I'll eat before they come out.
It smells of sweat and cooking oil.
I'm done.
Sausage is a treat only given to the dogs of a family.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Whitmore is a place for hens to nest eggs and eat bird seed.
Whitmore is a place where horse meat is sold as brownies and sugar cookies.
Whitmore is a place where teenagers get pregnant and eat hard boiled eggs as if they like it.
The Sudweeks are Mormonic followers who enjoy the thrist of Jesus.
Please give him a Coca-Cola, Momma once joked.
He looked sad on the cross. I thought he might want some water thanks to Mamma's sick joke.
Blueberry muffins are a dark color visable with small blueberries. I eat them at airports when awaiting a flight.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
Once I had a chicken salad sandwich...
The combination of pickle and chicken scared me.
Pappa had mayo and chicken on his lip.
I didn't laugh or the belt would come off.
Whalen ate one with Pappa, too.
But there was no chicken mayo on her lip.
She used a napkin.
We had pumpkin pie that night.
We watched Harry Potter and ate poppin' corn.
Peter Pan is a good book.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR
-
I danced all night.
Oh, I danced all night.
At the party.
Whalen's got a baby with a fried pork and steak fetish.
I danced all night.
Oh, I danced all night.
-WHITMORE'S MOVIE STAR
-
The passion and emotion expressed in these poems is pure genius.
I only wish the poet would reveal her identity.
I'd e-mail her and ask her to help me with my own poetry.
I'm a crappy poet who's seeking help!
-- Ronald Keegan
-
Has "Annie" been posting here? If so she is not using her name. How do you know? And why does she need to shut up? Is this "Annalisa" (sp) that students are so rude and mean to?
-
who is Whalen and Rob? Haven't seen them posting.
-
Whalen is a girl who went to the whitmore and Rob is a guy who went to the whitmore. They were best friends and Annie would always follow them around and stick her nose in their business because she was jealous that Whalen was close to Rob and she wasn't. She liked him.
-
I have a blask mask around my eyes
I have apple sauce in my mouth
I have a rugged towel over my shoulder
I have an old GameBoy and I know how to work it
The hamburgers are new and refridgerated.
Whalen likes pickles more than the common relish mother.
Remember when Rob danced naked while eating oatmeal? Lol.
-
your so fucking retarded
-
AND YOU ARE SO INTELLIGENT FOR USING THAT LANGUAGE. GIVE YOURSELF A PAT ON THE BACK- BET YOU ARE ONE OF CHERYL'S PIECES OF WORK.
-
Again, it is "you're" if you mean "you are."
But if you are merely signing yourself, guess you may be correct, as in:
Your,
Fucking Retarded _________?
-
You must be from the Whitmore because you make NO sense.
-
No, YOU must be from Whitmore. Damn. The contraction "you're" is actually the TWO WORDS "you & are" combined or shortened. Get it? As in "you're" a moron. I'm not saying that you actually are[/i] a moron, I'm just using the sentence as an example. :grin: "Your" job now is to learn from this. :wink:
"Yours" truly,
Grammar Police
-
your fucking retarded.
-
Oh Boy- here we go again- trash mouths. Can't you express yourselves without using profanity? or speaking malicious about people who are mentally challenged? If you can then DO IT- because the people on this site that do not speak that way - DON'T WANT TO SEE OT HEAR IT. And NO we will not get off the site just because you want to degrade humanity.
-
The Whitmore crowd is back posting:
Inga, during the trip to Mexico: did you get to sleep on TOP OF...IN...or UNDER the big bus?
How was this decided?
What exactly happened in Las Vegas...who was doing all the fighting?
How did you kids feel about "sneaking into the Resort" by wearing the All-inclusive-wrist-bands when you were not registered at this hotel??????
-
It's time for me to fess up and reveal my true identity.
The pork chops are ready and so am I.
The kittens are in the trash can looking for Fig Newtons.
It's me, Chris.
I've had to hide behind this fake identity for too long to disclose my true feelings for the Whitmore. I will no longer conceal myself from others. I now feel compassion for those who have read my poetry and have undestood it.
I will be publishing a nic compilation of my poetry next year. It will be availible online.
-WHITMORE'S SHINING STAR, Chris Corkalo XOXO
-
Chris - you are the poet? You had me fooled. How's school in Michigan... Seen any good shows lately?
~ Chris G
(guess i should start using the G)
-
Chris C.
So you are the Poet? Think you DID have everyone fooled about your identity. Now maybe your poems can be re-read and make more sense, now that former students know who wrote them?
Or, you may just get more flack.
Hi Chris G....How's college going? Well I hope.
-
Pardon my language... but baaaaaaaaaack the fuck up. I am NOT the Whitmore's Shining Star. Have Antigen check the IPs out. And while you're at it could you delete my last name from these posts? That bothers me. Damn, I'm pretty pissed someone is trying to attach my name to such horrid poetry. I'm racking my brain right now as to who would try to pin my name on their ramblings but I'm coming up empty. I guess it's someone who didn't like me too much.
howbizarre chris c
-
Chris G.......what's up man. College is good, I might finish out this semester with a B average. Haven't been to any shows since last fall...mainly because I've been procrastinating like whoa.
-
Wow I am confused now.
Chris C is Howbizarre? I thought there could be no way Chris C would be the poet. Personally, I feel that the poet is confirmed liar. Chris do you have AIM?
Chris G
-
Ok, now I'm in sort of a fix. I'd like to oblique that last name, but how do I know who actually owns it? Would WSS please contact me and OK the edit and/or Chris C. contact me and somehow confirm identity?
Thanks,No citizen of a liberal and democratic nation profits from a victorious war.
--Ludwig von Mises
-
Thought "HOW BIZARRE" was Elliot. Strange we haven't heard from How Bizarre in awhile,?
So, just wonder who came on line and "exposed Chris C as the poet, Whitmore's Shining Star?"
Chris C: have you done anything to make the Whitmore crowd mad at you for any reason?
How confusing.
-
From the postings: Mr. Bean showed his site, and his picture, and he says he is Elliot. But he has not posted since the Sudweeks took the kids to "Mexico."
-
Chris C: send a Private Message to Whitmore Alumni who claims to know exactly who the poet is. That might help you out.
-
Chris Corkalo is howbizarre.
-
But Chris C. is NOT the Whitmore Shining Star Poet, RIGHT? so we have that straight.
-
Chris Corkalo is not WSS nobody knows this person personally. and besides why does everyone want to know who everyone is all of a sudden?
-
Whitmore Alumni,
You posted previously that you knew who the Whitmore Shining Star was.
People are just curious---I don't care exactly WHO the poet is. Just: is this poet a former student at Whitmore? IF not, where did this person acquire so much inside information about the goings on at Whitmore. That sort of thing.
Everyone has the right to post anonymously if they choose. A former student using the name CORTURE posted here--and once she criticized Cherly Sudweeks, Inga from Whitmore posted: she was very rude to this former student, and posted her name. That is not right! But that is just another example of various people at Whitmore not respecting confidentiality, and that is dead wrong.
People do have the right to privacy.
-
where's the criticism for WSS trying to impersonate me and plaster my name all over?
chris c
-
I have been critical of WHOEVER used your name. Whitmore Alumni said he/she knew who the real poet was. I asked "Who is this poet?", and then he/she wrote back asking why????
It got very confusing...and I restated that:
Chris C. is NOT THE POET, so everyone would know you had been mistakenly identified.
I think it was very wrong...and you have the right to not be blamed for what you consider "very bad poetry."
-
we have useless topics were no one replies someone needs to delete them
-
No topics posted are useless--they all speak the TRUTH about the Sudweeks, the allegations of abuse...the investigations of abuse,and the anticipation of the upcoming trial to hold the Sudweeks accountable. What do YOU find useless about them, Whitmore Alumni?