Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Deborah on January 12, 2004, 03:09:00 PM
-
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/2 ... -4985r.htm (http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040109-104725-4985r.htm)
Justice refuses child welfare probe
By Thomas Houlahan
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
WASHINGTON, Jan. 9 (UPI) -- The Justice Department has declined a request from a California congressman for an investigation of a controversial program designed to modify the behavior of troubled teenagers.
On Nov. 3, Rep. George Miller, senior Democrat on the House Committee on Education and the Workforce, asked the department to launch a formal investigation of the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools and its founders.
WWASPS is an umbrella organization based in St. George, Utah, that oversees seven behavior modification facilities in the United States and two abroad. Many of the facilities are owned or run by family members of the corporation's founders. An estimated 2,400 children are enrolled in these residential programs at a yearly cost of between $30,000 and $54,000 per child in tuition and fees. The program's first facility was opened in 1987.
On Tuesday, Miller's office received formal notification of the department's decision not to investigate WWASPS. Assistant Attorney General William E. Moschella said while the Justice Department has the authority to investigate complaints concerning conditions in public institutions, "this authority does not extend to facilities outside the United States or purely privately owned facilities."
"I find the Justice Department's decision puzzling," said a congressional staff member on Thursday, speaking on condition of anonymity. "Congressman Miller asked the DOJ (Department of Justice) to investigate a number of allegations, including fraudulent and deceptive advertising, fraud and unjust enrichment under the Internal Revenue Code, and violations of other federal civil or criminal laws. These are allegations that the Justice Department clearly has the authority to investigate. It seems that DOJ has chosen one narrow area over which it has no authority and is using it to justify sidestepping the problem." Moschella declined to comment in response.
In his letter to Attorney General John Ashcroft, Miller said "there have been serious allegations that hundreds of children have been mistreated or neglected," and that there are "hundreds of parents who assert that they were drawn into the program by misleading advertising."
Miller cited an "extensive and consistent pattern of abuse," and said that he was "very concerned that the health and welfare of hundreds of children may be in jeopardy."
"WWASPS, formerly known as Teen Help, has had problems with the law since its inception," Miller wrote. He said since 1996, seven WWASPS/Teen Help facilities (two in the United States, five abroad) have closed after running afoul of the law.
In May last year, a facility called Dundee Ranch Academy in Costa Rica closed after authorities there charged the facility with violating the children's civil rights and the health code. A Costa Rican government inquiry found that:
-- Many of the youth appeared to be ill;
-- The levels of nutrition and food provided were limited;
-- The hygiene of the facilities was inadequate;
-- Living quarters were overcrowded;
-- Medical care was inadequate, and
-- The punishments given were considered physical abuse and psychological abuse and were prohibited under Costa Rican law.
"The Federal Government must take greater action and initiative to safeguard American youth in WWASPS programs in the United States and overseas," Miller wrote.
"There is a laundry list of abuse of children at WWASPS schools: deprivation of food, deprivation of contact with their peers, physical abuse, mental abuse, sexual abuse, and parents are paying big money for services not rendered," Miller added in a Nov. 6 news release.
A written response to Miller from Ken Kay, president of WWASPS, said the organization had been unfairly portrayed in the news media.
"We feel strongly that WWASPS and its schools have been distorted by the media," Kay wrote. Kay invited Miller to visit WWASPS' facilities. Miller declined, contending that such visits should be undertaken by trained investigators with law enforcement powers.
-
Maybe some of you might like to tell the White House what you think about this.
Contacting the White House
Mailing Address
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Phone Numbers
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: 202-456-2461
-
This wasn't unexpected.
There is a process to go threw and this was step one. Now that the J.D. has declined, as was expected, they'll move to step two.
There is a methoid to the maddness.
But by all means, tell the White House how disapointing it is that the Justice Department hasn't got the gumption to tackel this.
-
What qualifies as purely private? How many of these programs in the industry accept FEDERAL and STATE money (i.e.g School district paying tuition under Idea Act (IEP's)? Don't know if WWASPS does it, but Elan does and I'm sure there are others. What about wilderness programs? I thought some of these programs qualify for insurance payments toward enrollment cost?
:???:
-
In my mind it shouldn't matter if it is purely private. Shouldn't the civil rights extend into private institutions. If they are going to use that arguement where does the line begin and end?
Come in the evening, or come in the morning; Come when you 're looked for, or come without warning.
-- Thomas O. Davis (1814-1845): The Welcome.
-
Don't know if they receive funds, but here's a situation in which a parent requested to be reimbursed after enrolling their child... and was denied.
http://www.ode.state.or.us/sped/spedleg ... 98-143.pdf (http://www.ode.state.or.us/sped/spedlegal/dueprocess/1998orders/DP-98-143.pdf)
FINAL ORDER A.B. v West Linn-Wilsonville S.D.,
Page 13 ?If a child with a disability has FAPE available and the parents choose to place the child in a private school or facility, the public agency is not required by this part to pay for the child?s education at the private school or facility. . . .? (emphasis added) 34 CFR Sec. 300.403(a)
Because:
a. No notice was provided by the parents to the District which would have afforded the opportunity to reconsider, and if appropriate change A.B.?s IEP; and
b. The District IEP was reasonably calculated to provide educational benefit in the least restrictive environment; and
c. The private school placement was not for educational purposes, did not utilize any IEP, and, at best, provided minimal education of any kind: The request for reimbursement is denied.
ORDER: The parents of A.B. are not entitled to be reimbursed for the expenses they incurred in placing her at Cross Creek. Their request is denied.
Date: April 6, 1999
Thomas B. Hebert, Hearing Officer TBH:jeo NOTICE
TO ALL PARTIES: If you are dissatisfied with this Order you may, within 120 days after the mailing date on this Order, commence a nonjury civil action in any state court of competent jurisdiction, ORS 343.175, or in the United States District Court, 20 U.S.C. ยง 1415(e)(2). Failure to request review within the time allowed will result in LOSS OF YOUR RIGHT TO APPEAL FROM THIS ORDER.
------------------------------------------
Page 14
FINAL ORDER A.B. v West Linn-Wilsonville S.D., Page 14 ENTERED at Salem, Oregon this 6th day of April, 1999 with copies mailed to: Judie Lane, Oregon Department of Education, Public Service Building, 255 Capitol St. N.E., Salem, OR 97310-0203
-
http://www.cde.ca.gov/board/agenda/yr20 ... da1102.pdf (http://www.cde.ca.gov/board/agenda/yr2002/agenda1102.pdf)
ITEM W-13 Request by Pacific Grove Unified School District to waive Education Code (EC) Section 56366.1(a), certification for an uncertified
nonpublic school, Cross Creek Manor located in LaVerkin, Utah, to provide services to one special education student, Wendy D.
CDSIS-11-8-2002
(Recommended for APPROVAL)
ACTION
-
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... ancing.htm (http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/creative_financing.htm)
-
On 2004-01-12 12:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Maybe some of you might like to tell the White House what you think about this.
Contacting the White House
<
Considering Pres. Bush supports National Families in Action, good luck! Rep Miller was not given accurate information and by now he is aware of the scheme and agenda of the "nameless" You know who you are . ::mecry::
-
Why would Rep. Miller even ask for a DOJ investigation unless he felt confident about the source(s) of his information? Does not make sense.
:???:
-
That's too bad. WWASPS welcomes an investigation. That can certainly be a plus and the truth would finally be told. :nworthy:
-
On 2004-01-12 20:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That's too bad. WWASPS welcomes an investigation. That can certainly be a plus and the truth would finally be told. :nworthy: "
Thats a real joke.....WWASP would have them see what they want to see which is a far cry from the truth of the situation. How easy it is to set up an appt and make things look pretty.
If a drug house or criminal was given a heads up before the police came I am sure it would no longer look like a drug house and the evidence needed to convict a criminal would vanish. Does that mean someone didn't die, get raped, or buy crack? UMMMMMMMMMMMM NOT!
The only truth that would be told is what you want the truth to look like. Seems to me there are plenty of parents that have been telling the truth (not manipulation of their angels (Pun intended)).
-
The last poster doesn't think an investigation would be worthwhile because of what? Do investigations need an appointment?
Betcha Ashcroft knows about the agenda of the competition and is smart enough not to get sucked in.
The only purpose it would serve is to show the kids are safe and are not having the same kind of fun they did before they went. Boohoo ::boohoo:: I'm sure HE views it as a waste of time. I wish he would do it just to spite some of you all.
-
I wish he would enforce federal postal laws and send in cops with letters, pens, papers, envelopes, and a postman with the inmates mail--hand-deliver their mail to them. Stand there and let them write to anybody they friggin' want with no staff looking over their shoulders as they write, take the addressed envelopes on the way out the door, and come right back next week with mail call again.
Give 'em the letter of family and children's services every time. Show periodic videos of what constitutes abuse and is actionable so the staff can't brainwash the kids that so-and-so isn't *really* abuse.
Then investigate every single allegation, refuse to take the crap line "they all lie," question the kid separate from the staff---and wherever the kid maintains he/she is being abused, yank him or her right out and put him or her in foster care.
Let the parents go through family court where a judge can order a shrink to look at the parents as well as the kids, and if the parents are loopy and the kid is within the reasonable ranges of normal, then don't let the loopy parents have the kid back.
The worst of the schools would shut down for lack of enrollment inside of a year, and after the shakeout, what was left would be the better places that were able to adapt to *not* inducing Stockholm Syndrome---after the kids were all guaranteed mail call, the facilities would no longer be able to.
That particular abuse, at least, would be out of their arsenal.
Anyplace that keeps a kid from sending and recieving his/her own mail is committing federal offenses with every single instance.
Strictly enforcing just that one, single, existing law would do a world of good.
-
"Anyplace that keeps a kid from sending and recieving his/her own mail is committing federal offenses with every single instance.
Strictly enforcing just that one, single, existing law would do a world of good. "
:question:
don't know what program you were in, but it wasn't wwasps! I agree that any program that would keep a kid from writing or getting mail from their parents is wrong. Who does that?
-
You might also add that they are not allowed access to a public phone. All calls are made with supervision and the conversation is ended if the teen states anything negative, labeled "manipulation".
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ture2.html (http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/02/cov_23feature2.html)
And on the last page of the 12-page contract, parents are also required to give Tranquility Bay the right to "monitor all outgoing and incoming mail."
http://www.rickross.com/reference/teenb ... sitor.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/teenboot/teenbootvisitor.html)
The program bothered me the moment they told me I could have no contact with my daughter, except through the mail, which they read. They told the children over and over that 'your parent's don't care about you and that's why you are here!'
http://www.sociopranos.com/forums/threa ... 5&posts=41 (http://www.sociopranos.com/forums/thread-view.asp?threadid=65&posts=41)
They are mislead about how long they will go with out talking to their child. They are not told All mail, in and out is screened. They don't realize what this means is the kids have no way to ask for help or explain the truth.
By the time the kid is on a level were they can call home - the parents have been to a seminar or two. They are well indoctrinated into the manipulative tactic the kids use and so don't believe a word the kid says or might write home about. The kids know this. They know too, they will pay for it if they are negative or manipulating.
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/May/05252003/Utah/Utah.asp (http://www.sltrib.com/2003/May/05252003/Utah/Utah.asp)
Stateside or abroad, there is no access to television, videos, popular music or the Internet. Books are chosen for wholesome content. Telephone use is controlled and mail monitored. Rooms are spartan.
And World Wide has adopted its own tough-love approach to its critics. It has filed two defamation lawsuits in the past year against two parents, including one who started a competing program, for spreading what it sees as false and misleading information about its schools.
"Parent dissenters," Kay said, "have been very, very vicious."
-
On 2004-01-13 22:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Anyplace that keeps a kid from sending and recieving his/her own mail is committing federal offenses with every single instance.
Strictly enforcing just that one, single, existing law would do a world of good. "
:question:
don't know what program you were in, but it wasn't wwasps! I agree that any program that would keep a kid from writing or getting mail from their parents is wrong. Who does that?
"
Academy at Swift River in Massachusetts does that.
And they don't tell the kids before they get there, either.
-
On 2004-01-13 22:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Anyplace that keeps a kid from sending and recieving his/her own mail is committing federal offenses with every single instance.
Strictly enforcing just that one, single, existing law would do a world of good. "
:question:
don't know what program you were in, but it wasn't wwasps! I agree that any program that would keep a kid from writing or getting mail from their parents is wrong. Who does that?
"
Kids have a right to write or get mail from *anybody*---not just their parents.
The Federal laws against interfering with the mail to any person don't have any kind of age limit.
It's as illegal to stop a letter from a kid's best friend as it is to stop a letter from her parents.
You may not think it *should* be illegal, but the bald fact is, it *is* illegal. You keep a kid from getting a letter from her best friend, or sending one out, because you don't like the content, or just have a general policy against it, and you break federal law.
-
On 2004-01-14 08:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2004-01-13 22:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Anyplace that keeps a kid from sending and recieving his/her own mail is committing federal offenses with every single instance.
Strictly enforcing just that one, single, existing law would do a world of good. "
:question:
don't know what program you were in, but it wasn't wwasps! I agree that any program that would keep a kid from writing or getting mail from their parents is wrong. Who does that?
"
Academy at Swift River in Massachusetts does that.
And they don't tell the kids before they get there, either."
Oh, correction---I don't know if they stop mail from parents, but they stop mail from others, and don't allow the kid to write to others.
And that's a violation of federal law for every single instance.
If Ashcroft strictly enforced that one federal law, these places would be shut down, because grandparents, aunts, uncles, grown cousins or siblings, or neighbors, or parents of friends, would have the kids allegations of abuse in hand, and the kid's request to be under guardianship of that other adult, and those letters would give the other adult standing to sue for custody on the basis of the kid's request.
Enforce that one law strictly, and the rest of the whole rotten system crashes and burns.
-
As does Hidden Lake Academy.
It appears to be consistent throughout the industry and that the reason behind this is to monitor and intervene in communication between parent and child. Parents are advised to team up with staff by reporting all "complaints" to staff that go unnoticed, so the manipulation can be addressed immediately.. ya know, part of the "treatment". Parents are advised "not to go there with the teen", to hang up if complaints are made; while the teen is being told that the parent doesn't care about him/her and doesn't want to hear the "manipulation".
Very litte contact is allowed while this dynamic is being set up. Both parent and child are being conditioned. They tend to loosen up when both are fully conditioned and conversations are remaining within the imposed boundaries.
How can these programs- that would prefer state regulatory agencies to think they are boarding schools with structure but advertise to the public as therapeutic facilities-get away with this? Mail isn't censored in bonifide psych facilities or any other institution, without substantial proof that it is not in the person's best interest. It is a blanket policy with programs. The teen has no advocate, no access to a phone and could not report abuse to anyone but their parent, who unfortunately has been assured that it is an attempt to manipulate their way out.
-
Tell Ascroft to get with the program (no pun intended). If he doesn't, then a case could be made that the DOJ is in effect violating federal law by their refusal to enforce it.
:scared:
-
I can list 10 so called "facts" that I have read on this board that are short parts of the truth taken and twisted around to make it HORRIBLE!
Number one: This is the biggest bullshit on the board. "kids are told thier parents hate them"
That is the farthest thing from the truth that there is.. Kids are told your parents want a better life for you- your parents are trying to save you from where you were headed.. Give me a break! Your parents hate you?? Yeah- your parents hate you that's why they are spending more on this program then on their mortgage!
Number two: Kids can't mail their friends.. Hello? Do you know who their friends were?? Don't you know that that is why they are there, partly because of their poor choice of friends?
So- they should let the kids communicate with the frieds they did drugs with- or the friends they snuck out of the house with- yeah- that would be a good idea! Do you people have kids?
Number three: Kids can say whatever they want in letters to their parents. I can tell you for a fact that letters are not read by staff, incoming or outgoing, they are just opened in front of a staff member to make sure there is nothing in them (drugs or weapons-yes, we are allowed to send packages as much as we want)
My daughter was the biggest liar in the world before I sent her to cross creek and I completely expected all the lies to come in the letters of how they are mistreated- how they are beaten and locked in a room naked- never happened. My daughter has only said wonderful things about the staff- even when My idiot ex husband sent the sherriffs department to the school to make sure she was okay (he is one of you) she got to speak with them privately and could have said anything she wanted to. She told them she was fine and not being abused.
I have been to Cross Creek- It is a wonderful place- my daughter and I were able to talk to six of the resident girls in the program WITHOUT A STAFF MEMBER IN THE ROOM FOR PART OF THE TIME- the girls could have said anything they wanted to- and they said Cross Creek has changed their lives- most of the graduates of the program go off to college, which is the last place my daughter ever had dreams of going.
Unless you have been there- Unless your child has graduated the program- Unless you even had a child that was putting her life in danger by doing things that a teenager should not even begin to think of doing- Don't post your crap based on what you have read on the internet.
My ex is one of you who gets all his info from the internet- GIVE ME A BREAK PEOPLE! Do you think though, that my ex is so concerned that he would go there and check it out- it's only a 7 hour drive from here... No- too much trouble- lets just take what we read on the net - and not get the facts for yourself-
Id like to say that later in the program the kids can get mail from other family members- the reason they only allow mom and dad to mail initially is becuase they want the kids focused on their work- not distracted from the purpose of them being there. There is a lot of work to be done and if my daughter got 10 letters a day it would certainly be a distraction.
And I do talk to my daughter for one hour every other week in therapy with my husband and a licensed therapist at the program. For the first 6 weeks there were not phone calls- then they earn the phone calls. My ex called demanding to speak with her- after only two weeks- and they let her speak to him (the program will let the parents do what they want- they just have guidelines on how they "like" things done) and my ex told my daughter if she said they were abusing her , or even if she is being held there against her will that he would get a court order to have her released- she said "they do not abuse us- where did you hear that". He practically begged her to say something negative but she didn't.
The comment about no access to television and radio and popular music- DUH- all the crap that is on TV- I question all the time whether I should even let my kids at home watch all that crap you can see on TV these days. The world would be a better place if kids didn't get all the crap they get from TV.
If my daughter told me once that there was abuse there I would go and pick her up. I am doing the best thing I could possibly do for her- I want a bright future for her and she was drinking/having sexual encounters and putting her life in serious danger before she left. Now , after only 4 months , she sees the mistakes she has made and thanks me for saving her life. She is starting to dream about her future- and has goals to be a wonderful young lady. She didn't have that before. Her dead beat dad abandoned her and doesn't give her the time of day- she has a lot of self esteem issues she is dealing with. That , in part, is why kids go through these things. They think they and their bodies aren't worth anything. I had to change that.
One more thing- when a place is investigated- there are no appointments.. Get real people! When the DEA is investigating a drug ring do they make an appointment for a bust?? No- of course they don't. Cross Creek encourages anyone to tour the facility and speak to the residents any time- any day.
If anyone is intersted in hearing from Graduates of the program- which I have talked to met many of them and begged for information- anything at all negative you can tell me about the school. Never - only positive experiences. Yes, the program is hard! Of course it's hard! But it's hard for a reason and it works.
If you haven't been part of the program and you are posting based on crap you have read on the internet - keep your crap to yourself- I don't even want to hear it. But if you have ligitimate questions you would like answered- I will answer them.
Just post back and I will check when I can.
-
On 2004-01-17 08:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I can list 10 so called "facts" that I have read on this board that are short parts of the truth taken and twisted around to make it HORRIBLE!
Number one: This is the biggest bullshit on the board. "kids are told thier parents hate them"
That is the farthest thing from the truth that there is.. Kids are told your parents want a better life for you- your parents are trying to save you from where you were headed.. Give me a break! Your parents hate you?? Yeah- your parents hate you that's why they are spending more on this program then on their mortgage!
Number two: Kids can't mail their friends.. Hello? Do you know who their friends were?? Don't you know that that is why they are there, partly because of their poor choice of friends?
So- they should let the kids communicate with the frieds they did drugs with- or the friends they snuck out of the house with- yeah- that would be a good idea! Do you people have kids?
Number three: Kids can say whatever they want in letters to their parents. I can tell you for a fact that letters are not read by staff, incoming or outgoing, they are just opened in front of a staff member to make sure there is nothing in them (drugs or weapons-yes, we are allowed to send packages as much as we want)
My daughter was the biggest liar in the world before I sent her to cross creek and I completely expected all the lies to come in the letters of how they are mistreated- how they are beaten and locked in a room naked- never happened. My daughter has only said wonderful things about the staff- even when My idiot ex husband sent the sherriffs department to the school to make sure she was okay (he is one of you) she got to speak with them privately and could have said anything she wanted to. She told them she was fine and not being abused.
I have been to Cross Creek- It is a wonderful place- my daughter and I were able to talk to six of the resident girls in the program WITHOUT A STAFF MEMBER IN THE ROOM FOR PART OF THE TIME- the girls could have said anything they wanted to- and they said Cross Creek has changed their lives- most of the graduates of the program go off to college, which is the last place my daughter ever had dreams of going.
Unless you have been there- Unless your child has graduated the program- Unless you even had a child that was putting her life in danger by doing things that a teenager should not even begin to think of doing- Don't post your crap based on what you have read on the internet.
My ex is one of you who gets all his info from the internet- GIVE ME A BREAK PEOPLE! Do you think though, that my ex is so concerned that he would go there and check it out- it's only a 7 hour drive from here... No- too much trouble- lets just take what we read on the net - and not get the facts for yourself-
Id like to say that later in the program the kids can get mail from other family members- the reason they only allow mom and dad to mail initially is becuase they want the kids focused on their work- not distracted from the purpose of them being there. There is a lot of work to be done and if my daughter got 10 letters a day it would certainly be a distraction.
And I do talk to my daughter for one hour every other week in therapy with my husband and a licensed therapist at the program. For the first 6 weeks there were not phone calls- then they earn the phone calls. My ex called demanding to speak with her- after only two weeks- and they let her speak to him (the program will let the parents do what they want- they just have guidelines on how they "like" things done) and my ex told my daughter if she said they were abusing her , or even if she is being held there against her will that he would get a court order to have her released- she said "they do not abuse us- where did you hear that". He practically begged her to say something negative but she didn't.
The comment about no access to television and radio and popular music- DUH- all the crap that is on TV- I question all the time whether I should even let my kids at home watch all that crap you can see on TV these days. The world would be a better place if kids didn't get all the crap they get from TV.
If my daughter told me once that there was abuse there I would go and pick her up. I am doing the best thing I could possibly do for her- I want a bright future for her and she was drinking/having sexual encounters and putting her life in serious danger before she left. Now , after only 4 months , she sees the mistakes she has made and thanks me for saving her life. She is starting to dream about her future- and has goals to be a wonderful young lady. She didn't have that before. Her dead beat dad abandoned her and doesn't give her the time of day- she has a lot of self esteem issues she is dealing with. That , in part, is why kids go through these things. They think they and their bodies aren't worth anything. I had to change that.
One more thing- when a place is investigated- there are no appointments.. Get real people! When the DEA is investigating a drug ring do they make an appointment for a bust?? No- of course they don't. Cross Creek encourages anyone to tour the facility and speak to the residents any time- any day.
If anyone is intersted in hearing from Graduates of the program- which I have talked to met many of them and begged for information- anything at all negative you can tell me about the school. Never - only positive experiences. Yes, the program is hard! Of course it's hard! But it's hard for a reason and it works.
If you haven't been part of the program and you are posting based on crap you have read on the internet - keep your crap to yourself- I don't even want to hear it. But if you have ligitimate questions you would like answered- I will answer them.
Just post back and I will check when I can.
"
WWASPER DUH to you. I have had a child in CCM....What I know of the program I know first hand....there isn't one of you or one of them or any of that type of crap you are slaying. When your child returns and the honeymoon period ends perhaps then you will open your eyes. If things on this board are not in alingment with you move on as no one needs WWASPers gospal bull crap shoved down their throats. You are all a dime a dozen for the "program" if you think differently you are only kidding yourself. Fact is wwaspers do not want to read anything that isn't praise for the programs even when it is ones experience, which is why you should keep your crap at the BBS where they allow only the untruths be told.
WWASPers are just like puppetssssss period!
-
Ha ha ha ha 4 months give me a break.....you are still fresh into the beliefs....You do not have the first clue. Continue to justify the program and see where you end up. How comical you are trying to tell every one off that has a different belief than yours.
You are a woman that needs to believe in this at this time as you feel you have no other hope. You have bought into all they have told you and are replacing you anger towards your daughters behavior with trying to breathe new light into everyone else that doesn't believe. You spend hours a day looking and giving feedback to others on the bbs because you feel the need to give back what you received. The absence of your daughter has turned into the need of the BBS for other parents to reach out to that will support you in your crap because they are all breathing in the same fumes. The BBS will give you all the support you need in believing you did the right thing. ha ha ha it is a joke!
-
At this stage of your program....if your daughter told you she was being abused you would tell yourself it is her manipulation to exit the program.....you wouldn't go get her.....your not fooling anyone with that crap.
-
I can list 10 so called "facts" that I have read on this board that are short parts of the truth taken and twisted around to make it HORRIBLE!
Number one: This is the biggest bullshit on the board. "kids are told thier parents hate them"
To the anon that posted this message, please contact me. I would like to talk to you and possibly your ex husband.
Careycbock@aol.com
-
Thank you for telling me what i WOULD do..
-
Okay- so all the graduates I talk to must be wrong.. Hmmmm.
-
So, anonymous that had a child in the program. Your complaint about the program is what? They couldn't watch TV?
Let me guess- your child didn't graduate the program, right??
-
On 2004-01-17 11:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So, anonymous that had a child in the program. Your complaint about the program is what? They couldn't watch TV?
Let me guess- your child didn't graduate the program, right??
"
No I have no complaint about the not watching TV. My complaints with the program is much deeper than that and I have stated that in other posts within this thread. My dealings with WWASP was over a 3 year period not 4 quickie months to judge others or try to change their experience. I can see that there is both good things and bad things within the program. There are things within the program that require change in order to stop all the things that have gone wrong.
Did my daughter graduate....ha ha ha....that seems to be the first place you all jump at. Okay the answer to your question is......according to the Director at CCM....she had completed their teachings after 20 months in their program.
I am not disgruntled towards the program however I am disgruntled of the activists it creates. Number one lesson from the seminars is not to judge however that is what I experienced within over and over. I also understand that the experience a child has at CCM is much different than one at CASA, Dundee, or TB.
-
"I can list 10 so called "facts" that I have read on this board that are short parts of the truth taken and twisted around to make it HORRIBLE!"
I am interested to know what 10 things you found to be short parts of the truth.
-
Try to change their experience?? Isn't that what you are doing for my and supporters of the program? Trying to tell us that what we think is bullshit? and even if the program is working for us- because it didn't work for you then somehow we are not educated.. Or we haven't been exposed enough?
You didn't answer my question about what your problem with Cross Creek is. I am suppose to go back through all the posts and try to figure out who said what? Everyone is posting anonymous so that clearly makes it difficult for me to figure out exactly what your upset about within the program.
Can you take 5 minutes and tell me why CC is so horrible?
I'm not trying to change anyone's experience. I got on this board this morning and it just drove me crazy to read things like "they tell you your parents hate you".. If you are familiar with the program you know they don't do that.
-
For the person asking for the 10 things.. Did you not read my novel of a post??
Please go back and read it. There are a number of things I point out that are good examples of how a little truth is twisted around to become a big lie.
-
Okay did you know that sometimes during therapy sessions the kids are told their parents don't want them? Yes I understand this is hard to believe however As stated in my other post I witnessed the session as I sat in. I remember sitting there (this is after 10 months and all three seminars in the program)not wanting to say anything in front of my daughter as I didn't want her to use it to manipulate me later however addressed it with the director directly after. Not all therapists have an education to be working with people as a therapist. I once did not believe this either however it was my experience.
I did get her therapist changed after this and the next one was much better however that doesn't stop the fact that the first one was such and idiot in her rantings. Later the FR admitted knowing the relationship between my daughter and the therapist was not a working one. Why was that not addressed with the morning meetings with the Director? Why let a kid sit the first 10 months in a non working relationship and do nothing until the parent steps up? I was told from the beginning they never let a kid get comfortable and sit like this however it happens. It was a waste of the tuition for that time as it only pushed her farther the other way. It was not beneficial nor was it giving what they say it would. In fact every girl within this particular group was having the same issues with the therapist. That to me is a big red flag. Things like this if addressed will make the program different than what it is.
Group sessions: Well they have those every day. It was my experience that in order to move to the upper levels some girls would manipulate a "story" about another girl. This would advance them as "looking like" they were working their program and the other girl would recieve the consequences for her lies. I witnessed this behavior during a group session I attended.
Different staff members gave different cats. Most the time the kids know the rules better than the staffers. CCM had a large overturn of staffers during the 2 years my daughter attended. Also FR's are not made to attend the seminars and neither is the staff. It is my feeling that they should be required to do so as you can not preach what you do not know.
Yes I do think my daughter gained tools from the program however I know it is not a perfect situation and if things were addressed vs. sweeping it under the carpet or calling it a disgruntled parent things could change. Until then things will continue to happen over and over and the teen and parent will suffer.
Change is good no matter if your a teen, a parent, or a WWASP employee/school.
-
Anon program supporter,
Are you seriously worried that another person will be able to brainwash you into believing ?what you think is bullshit??
You don?t have the power to change other?s experiences, but you did jump on this forum this morning and accuse other posters of lying:
?I can list 10 so called "facts" that I have read on this board that are short parts of the truth taken and twisted around to make it HORRIBLE!
Number one: This is the biggest bullshit on the board. "kids are told thier parents hate them" That is the farthest thing from the truth that there is???
You accuse others of lying then whine that they are trying to change your experience, when they rebut what you have stated as truth.
Many parents/family with experience speak out on this forum, and would be speaking on the BBS if they weren?t banned. They are speaking their truth, and have a right to do so, even if it threatens your current beliefs.
Then you said: I got on this board this morning and it just drove me crazy to read things like "they tell you your parents hate you.***
If it drives you crazy reading that it might be possible, imagine how you might feel to later find out that it IS true. You can not say with absolute certainty that is doesn?t happen. The fact is, you are not there 24/7 and do not have a clue what is or isn?t said to your child.
And this is the best and most revealing thing you said: ?If you haven't been part of the program and you are posting based on crap you have read on the internet - keep your crap to yourself- I don't even want to hear it. But if you have ligitimate questions you would like answered- I will answer them.?
First, It?s pretty damned arrogant of you to come to a public forum and tell others to keep their ?crap? to themselves, because ?you don?t want to hear it?. Change your browser. No one is force feeding you information. Your child IS being force fed. No one is trying to ?change your experience?. Only you can do that.
Second, Four months in the program and you are an expert? How are you qualified to answer all questions about the program posed by the public? Will you refer to your parent manual for answers? Or zip over to the BBS and ask how you should respond? Or are you a staff member posing as a parent? Hard to know? as you too post anonymously.
I think this is more program ::spam::
-
Deb Says:
If it drives you crazy reading that it might be possible, imagine how you might feel to later find out that it IS true. You can not say with absolute certainty that is doesn?t happen. The fact is, you are not there 24/7 and do not have a clue what is or isn?t said to your child.
Anon Friend, it is true. It happens a lot. They are told worse things than that you don't want them around and that you hate them. I've talked to a lot of the kids who've been in the program; and they commonly explain that they were told their parents didn't want anything to do with them; hated them; even signed documents allowing the staff to break their bones.
Its all part of disolving their identity to make them more readily brainwashed. Do a little reading on brain washing; mind controll, and behavior modivication.
You have no idea what your up against. You have a right to know. Educate yourself; they are not going to tell you the truth and if you stick with it; you will soon enough lose all ability to descern the truth even when it smacks you in the face.
Are they still advising you newbies to take a vacation and send a post card telling the kid how glad you are they aren't there? Why do you suppose they want you to do this? Hummm?
Its all part of the process.
-
Deborah, others, etc., please! Why the attacks on a new parent? You know, it gets better and better everytime I read this board. A parent comes on this board because her ex actually thought it was fact that kids are abused! You all are hurting more kids, not physically, but for the parents that need help and won't do it because of the agenda of a few and the fear you put in parents. Must be a proud moment for ya'all that this dad actually got sucked into it. Didn't go anywhere did it? He should ask you for reimbursement for the time it took to check it out.
My relative has been home for well over 2 YEARS and he is the same kid, minus the attitude and the drugs, not perfect, and still says it was the best thing for him at the time if he's asked. 2 YEARS!
Imagine the brainwashing really worked, huh? LOL!!
WWASPS mom - if you don't agree with the activitist or the disgruntled on this board, get ready for your buttons to be pushed, or better yet, go read a good book.
-
By all means, read a book. Heres a good list to start with:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/li ... 74-3303030 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/3KL7TH8HSRS9J/ref=cm_lm_dp_l_1/103-5808374-3303030)
-
All I can say about these programs is I've heard a hell of a lot of satisfied parents----and damned few satisfied young adults five years down the line.
The satisfied parents mostly come across as control freaks---and no control freak ever thinks he or she is a control freak---but the people around him or her do.
The only program kid I have close knowledge of was lied to to get her there, and has two adult sisters who won't even talk the mother (custodial parent) and stepdad anymore.
Estrangement predates shipping this daugher off---but looks to be building just fine towards ultimate permanent estrangement of that basically normal kid from her basically loopy mom.
The only reason her real dad didn't object was because the program would at least get the kid out from living immediately under the loopy mom---and he thought that just might be an improvement.
Mom's rich, dad's poor, no way dad can get custody.
And she is not allowed to send or receive mail.
It's not WWASPS, it's a different program.
Oh, and I don't give a good goddam if an individuals friends are "druggie"---federal law says you can't stop US mail from one person to another person, regardless of whether the recipient is a minor or not. Once there's a stamp on that letter and it's mailed, anyone who obstructs that mail from getting to the addressee is in violation of federal law.
I don't give a good goddam what you think you "ought" to be able to do to your kid. Federal law says you can't do that. The law needs to be enforced.
-
Mail not getting to the recipient? So how did the friends get the address to send that mail? If they don't have an address, they don't get the mail...duh! Doubt the parents gave the friends an address and directions to their kid! Think about it.
Satisfied parents, satisfied teens. I don't get the "satisfaction thing anyway. I do get that the kids NEVER wanted to be there, not even when things were going good inside the program. They wanted to be home, which is change, cuz most of them didn't want to be at home when they were "home." Go figure!
I don't experience the satisfied parents as being controllers, I experience the negative posters on this board as controllers. Obviously if a dad believed the crap enough to really
think his kid was being abused, then you've done a good job in your own form of brainwashing and mind control. :rofl:
-
We don't know
1) that the poster is indeed a new parent.
2) that she actually has an ex and he did what she alleges.
3) that you have a realtive and he is fine.
What we do know
Everytime a program parents feet are held to the fire- is engaged in debate, there is an organized front signing on to scream "attack".
There are no rules of engagement here- don't imagine that you can come on board and impose yours. No one is required to be nice- whatever that means to you. I thought it rude of her to call others liars. And inappropriate to present herself as an authority with 4 months experience in the organization.
This is a survivor site. It is not mandatory reading for anyone. I thought your advice to her was excellent.
-
Okay did you know that sometimes during therapy sessions the kids are told their parents don't want them? Yes I understand this is hard to believe however As stated in my other post I witnessed the session as I sat in. I remember sitting there (this is after 10 months and all three seminars in the program)not wanting to say anything in front of my daughter as I didn't want her to use it to manipulate me later however addressed it with the director directly after. Not all therapists have an education to be working with people as a therapist. I once did not believe this either however it was my experience.
Okay- finally a civilized conversation. So, you had a problem with your therapist and that is the reason you are upset with the program (or the biggest reason, anyway) But my question to you - without being in your shoes- you got to talk to the therapist approx. 20 times during that first 10 months, right? And you had therapy sessions with your daughter/son on at least half of those - didn't you see it? Our therapist is Norm T. and I believe he communicates with my daughter better than I've been able to in two years- and so far everything that he says has really been right on. She has said how much respect she has for him and I feel like (when I talk to him) that he only has her best interest in mind. He gets excited about rewarding her when she has a good week- and he calls her on her crap when she is having a bad day. If I didn't feel comfortable with him- or if I felt my daughter wasn't "getting" anything from her sessions with him- I would explore changing therapists. Its not unheard of. Sometimes therapists recommend a change because they feel it just isn't working- kids change groups, therapists, whatever.
I am not saying I'm an expert in any way- all I'm saying is people who come on forums like this and give opinions on what they have "read on the internet" or even parents with kids in a different school like Dundee or TB- you can't compare those schools to CC and you cant take one situation that happened in another country and hold it against CC.
All I know is we were fighting a loosing battle with my daughter. My husband and I want only the best for her, as Im sure you want the best for your child which is why you sent him/her to CC. Nothing we were doing would make her see that she was ruining her life- digging herself into a whole that soon she wouldn't be able to pull herself out of. Getting addicted to Alcohol and giving her body away to anyone and everyone- even a 22 y/o stranger when she was camping with my ex. You feel helpless and you just can't stop her from all of this- and we tried counseling- she didn't work in the sessions, just looked at the floor and when she has to answer she would just grunt.
Thank you for giving me your feed back about the program- I do appreciate it. But what you are saying is a far cry from abuse like some of the other people alleg.(sp?)
My daughter is happy and we have a relationship again- she writes me every other day, as I do her. She can't wait to get back to the family, nor can we. We only want happiness for her. Its very difficult to have her away- you know that. But it was very difficult to have her here when she was distroying her life and all we could do is sit back and watch.
So- again I thank you. I hope your child is living a good and productive life and that she took some good things from the program that she can use in her life.
So far, it's working for us and the second I feel like its not- I'll be there to bring her home.
Michelle
-
Deborah from Texas
I am a new parent.. I am not presenting myself as an authority- or at least I didn't mean to.
I am very familiar with the program- I live it, breath it and it consumes my entire life. Four months maybe doesn't seem like a long time- but when your kids is away from you it is a life time. There is not a question I haven't asked and when I do have a question I hadn't thought of asking I ask my daughter-
You don't have to believe that I have an ex who sent the sherrifs department to the school. If you think that is too hard for you to imagine that a child had an opportunity to leave and didn't take it- you can believe what you want.
By the way, my daughter chose to at Cross Creek. We went there together- we toured the place= talked to some residents and some staff members- and when we had an opportunity to talk to six of the resident kids we were left alone with them for at least 30 minutes and they could have said anything they wanted to say to us. After talking with those girls and seeing the changes that they making in their attitudes and in their lives, my daughter decided that she wanted to change too. I could not have left here there kicking and screaming like some parents have to do. I tried to talk her into coming home and giving it one last chance and she said she wanted to stay- that she knows she will go back to the same stuff if she came home.
She thanks me for cross creek all the time in her letters. She has made friends that she loves.
I miss her terribly, but she will be home some day in the hopefully not too far away future and we will all be thankful for the experience.
Michelle
-
On 2004-01-18 07:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Deborah from Texas
I am a new parent.. I am not presenting myself as an authority- or at least I didn't mean to.
I am very familiar with the program- I live it, breath it and it consumes my entire life. Four months maybe doesn't seem like a long time- but when your kids is away from you it is a life time. There is not a question I haven't asked and when I do have a question I hadn't thought of asking I ask my daughter-
You don't have to believe that I have an ex who sent the sherrifs department to the school. If you think that is too hard for you to imagine that a child had an opportunity to leave and didn't take it- you can believe what you want.
By the way, my daughter chose to at Cross Creek. We went there together- we toured the place= talked to some residents and some staff members- and when we had an opportunity to talk to six of the resident kids we were left alone with them for at least 30 minutes and they could have said anything they wanted to say to us. After talking with those girls and seeing the changes that they making in their attitudes and in their lives, my daughter decided that she wanted to change too. I could not have left here there kicking and screaming like some parents have to do. I tried to talk her into coming home and giving it one last chance and she said she wanted to stay- that she knows she will go back to the same stuff if she came home.
She thanks me for cross creek all the time in her letters. She has made friends that she loves.
I miss her terribly, but she will be home some day in the hopefully not too far away future and we will all be thankful for the experience.
Michelle
"
Stockholm Syndrome only takes 3 days to set in.
And any group that "consumes your whole life" scores a sinificant hit, iirc, on the Bonewitz' Cult Danger Evaluation Frame, just on that. The money is also a significant hit, as is WWASP parents' "circle the wagons" reaction to outsiders, and hostile reactions to group-leavers, and predictions of statistically improbable disaster (death of a child) for group-leavers.
Not interested in drinking the koolaid, thanks.
-
I'm still friends with two parents who "left" the program. Not once have I questioned their decisions to "choose out." It's a personal choice and I'd be lying if I said I thought something was wrong with them or they were bad, etc., for this choice. In both cases, we don't discuss wwasp. We became friends during seminar and maintain that friendship on that level. In one family the girl is doing great. In the other, son is struggling and they are searching for "free" alternatives. It really is about what the "take away" was and how they choose to use it. Even graduates struggle, we all struggle with certain situations whether or not we've been IN a program. That's called life.
I understand what the ANON parent was saying when she said it consumes her life. It's not cultie to want to live and breath the new things we've learned. It takes practice to change a habit. She sounds committed to living this, not because she is told to, but because she wants to...on her own terms. She sounds committed to supporting her daughter and herself to live a different way that what she was prior to the admission. That's what I'm reading, but I tend to read positive, not negative.
-
Yes, friend.. My child consumes my life.. What a concept for some to get ahold of...
-
On 2004-01-17 19:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Mail not getting to the recipient? So how did the friends get the address to send that mail? If they don't have an address, they don't get the mail...duh! Doubt the parents gave the friends an address and directions to their kid! Think about it.
Satisfied parents, satisfied teens. I don't get the "satisfaction thing anyway. I do get that the kids NEVER wanted to be there, not even when things were going good inside the program. They wanted to be home, which is change, cuz most of them didn't want to be at home when they were "home." Go figure!
I don't experience the satisfied parents as being controllers, I experience the negative posters on this board as controllers. Obviously if a dad believed the crap enough to really
think his kid was being abused, then you've done a good job in your own form of brainwashing and mind control. :rofl: "
You're a real moron, aren't you? If you know the name of the school, there's this wonderful thing called "Google" that gives you the address.
And you know what? I don't care about your weird "experience" program jargon. There is fact, and there are things that are factually incorrect. Specific individuals either have pathological drives to control other people, or they do not.
Posting opinions to an open, uncensored board is not a controlling behavior. That you can mistake it for one shows that you can't tell the difference between behaviors to control another person and behaviors that control ones' self---you can't tell the difference between behaviors within the limit of yourself and who you are, and behaviors that impinge within someone else's self and who that person is.
You think that just because you perceive something within yourself, your "experience", has some special value that trumps objective reality.
That mental disconnect from what's outside you--from objective reality--is unhealthy as hell.
It separates you from being able to notice when you're doing things that the group defines as okay but people outside the group would define as monstrous----it renders you totally defenseless against something called "groupthink."
Remember the EF Hutton scandal? Anderson Consulting? Enron?---those are business scandals, but the principle is the same---people get caught up in a group, the group decides certain behaviors are normal and okay----that the outside world would say were definitely not okay.
And they were able to go a long, long way down that road doing things the group decided were okay, and along the way they forgot, or lost touch with, the standards of the outside world that said those things weren't okay to do----until they got caught and the whole groupthink delusion came tumbling down in one big huge scandal.
Even though the group had decided internally that what they did at EF Hutton, Anderson, Enron was okay, when it all came apart, they had to face the consequences of what their groupthink said was okay, and society said was criminal. There were huge losses of money, losses of jobs, and in some cases jail time involved.
Your loss is setting up to be a 25 year old grown kid who will either not have anything to do with you, or will carefully restrict time with you and your part in that grown kid's life---at best.
This isn't going to persuade you, because you're unhooked from reality and stuck in the cult-induced phobia---you probably really believe your kid will die if you go get her and put her back in your local school system.
But other people on the outside looking in, undecided people, might read this and decide *not* to become unhooked from outside reality the way you have.
You don't seem to be a bad person. Then again, most of the people at Jonestown who fed cyanide to their babies weren't bad people, either.
I don't think you'll get as far as killing babies, but you've already gotten as far as unwisely placing your child in an institution whose leaders have a bad reputation for abuse.
If objective reality is that your child gets abused, and you leave her there until "graduation," the history of program relationships is that five to ten years after she leaves, she will probably severely curtail her relationship with you, and you probably won't get it back.
And it won't matter whether you "experienced" what was done to her as abuse.
For others who have not yet unhooked their line to reality and decided to free solo on the slopes of grave moral hazard, maybe they can take you as an object lesson and not go there.
I'm sorry there's nothing I can do to help you.
-
Does that go for e-mail too? I work for a company that intercepts mail they "deem" potentially hazardous :rofl:
-
On 2004-01-18 10:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
In both cases, we don't discuss wwasp.
Sounds like you've found a couple of wise friends. We took the same tack w/ our daughter while she was involved in a very controling, abusive romantic relationship (often called a "cult of one"). We simply didn't discuss it unless she brought it up, and even then we pitched soft balls most of the time. By doing this, we were able to maintain contact with her, avoid conflict and frustrate the boyfriend's attempts to demonize us and blame us for problems in their relationship until she was ready to call it quits and come home.
It's hard to do sometimes, especially w/ someone you love so much you feel it yourself every time the asshole pimp-slaps her upside the head for anything or nothing. But it really is sound advice.
A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement
Thomas Jefferson
-
On 2004-01-18 10:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes, friend.. My child consumes my life.. What a concept for some to get ahold of... "
--Joan Crawford
Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947
-
On 2004-01-18 10:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes, friend.. My child consumes my life.. What a concept for some to get ahold of... "
Mine doesn't. Nor does my husband. I love them both, but when your relationship with one person "consumes your life" that's when you feel the need to control them---because them having a life you don't control becomes a threat--because you don't have a life.
When my child was a newborn baby she "consumed my life" for a few months, just because newborns are so inherently needy.
But generally speaking, even if your kid or spouse has terminal cancer having them "consume your life" is bad for you and bad for them.
As any *competent* family therapist or clinical psychologist would tell you.
I can't diagnose you over the internet, and I wouldn't try, but I can tell you that letting any one person or thing "consume your life" is a very, very self-destructive life coping strategy.
If you haven't already done so, get an independent second opinion.
I would urge you, separate from the program or its people, to go see a licensed family therapist---and pick one that doesn't look so much for deep dark roots, but that focuses on day to day problems in living---and the first problem you lay on the table is the feeling that your child "consumes your life" and that people you've spoken to have suggested you might have a problem with controlling behavior.
Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But with your child's welfare at stake, you should at least get that independent second opinion.
If possible (and I know you're going to hate this)---you should schedule your intake session with the independent therapist when your ex-husband can go, and let him know that you've listened to his concerns about your daughter and are respecting them enough to get an independent second opinion on what's going on in your family---particularly, what *your* family coping "issues" are. Tell him you both will get a more accurate opinion from the therapist if he/she can talk to someone who knows you well, rather than just you, and that you don't expect him to go to counseling with you forever--just a one time independent second opinion, partly in response to his own parenting concerns.
If you can't or won't take him, take your mom, your dad, your sister, your brother---someone close to you who knows you inside out, preferably has lived under the same roof for an extended period sometime in your life. Preferably someone who is not your biggest and best cheerleader.
This will let you get the most out of a second opinion---your therapist could, over time, winkle out whatever's going on with you. Taking someone else to give an outside opinion of you---even if you and your ex hate each other (a good therapist will be able to weed through that) it would help some---it lets the therapist figure you out fast so he/she can give you a read on what problems in living, coping, and interacting with people you need to work on.
*Everybody* has some interpersonal thing they could do better. A solid, independent second opinion can give you a good reality check.
If your child "consumes your life," isn't she worth that much?
-
In the beginning of a child being in a program, no matter what else in your life is important, that child is on your mind night and day. It does get better, life goes on and a balance is soon created.
With only 4 months for this mom, this is absolutely normal and has nothing to do with control. It's instinct and love, just like an infant. As the weeks pass, more than likely, she'll focus in other areas of her life, but still miss her daughter.
Who here as a parent can say those first months weren't tough and thought consuming?
-
On 2004-01-18 20:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"In the beginning of a child being in a program, no matter what else in your life is important, that child is on your mind night and day. It does get better, life goes on and a balance is soon created.
With only 4 months for this mom, this is absolutely normal and has nothing to do with control. It's instinct and love, just like an infant. As the weeks pass, more than likely, she'll focus in other areas of her life, but still miss her daughter.
Who here as a parent can say those first months weren't tough and thought consuming?"
Involuntary commitment with no meaningful safeguards has been tried before. It led to the same problems in the adult population that the survivors of unjustifiable teen involuntary commitments are reporting now.
I wouldn't argue that there aren't some mental or behavioral conditions that merit involuntary commitment or incarceration.
I would argue that the present system, having no safeguards against, "parent loopy, kid sane" is just as bad as the 1950's, which basically had few safeguards against a husband claiming his wife was loopy and having her involuntarily committed.
Same patterns, same abuses, and the present abusive and unregulated system will ultimately fall the same way.
As it should.
There have to be standards defining the kid who is *not* a candidate for involuntary commitment, no matter how much his or her parents want to commit him/her. And there will be. It's just going to take the right high-profile case to get the safeguards in place.
Patience and tenacity will succeed in reforming almost any corrupt and abusive system, in time.
I don't want to eliminate involuntary commitment.
I *do* want to ensure that the child's mental health is evaluated by a totally independent expert before he/she is committed against his/her will; that the parents' or guardians' mental health is evaluated; that the child is placed with the least restrictive effective treatment option if ill--say, in foster care under sane parents and in outpatient treatment; and that in cases where involuntary commitment is justified, the patient has the same rights as an involuntarily committed adult, and a system is not only in effect to enforce those rights, but that it actually does so.
I am confident that we will get those reforms.
Patience and tenacity.
Too bad there's no badger emoticon. :wave:
-
The therapy session was only one example of the reasons I do not agree with all WWASP does nor is it the only reason I would not offer information to other parents to send their child there. It was simply a short answer to your questions. You think it works for you.....great for you.....will it work till the end......only time will tell....will you get things from your daughter you sent her there for.....again only time will tell. You are letting it consume your life.....very easy to do.....once your breathe outside the box they are putting you in.....perhaps you will change your mind or not.
There are many reasons I see things I do about WWASP.
-
On 2004-01-19 05:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The therapy session was only one example of the reasons I do not agree with all WWASP does nor is it the only reason I would not offer information to other parents to send their child there. It was simply a short answer to your questions. You think it works for you.....great for you.....will it work till the end......only time will tell....will you get things from your daughter you sent her there for.....again only time will tell. You are letting it consume your life.....very easy to do.....once your breathe outside the box they are putting you in.....perhaps you will change your mind or not.
There are many reasons I see things I do about WWASP. "
There's your problem. You expected "them" to do it for your daughter. There will never be positive results unless the kid, and for that matter, the whole family, is open and willing to make changes. No one could do it for your daughter, she had to do it herself. There's some good articles in The Source this month that are from kids that sound like your daughter, but decided to get real with themselves and really put into practice what was offered. You are not a victim unless you choose to be.
-
The problem with program parents is they are overly enmeshed in their child's emotional growth. So overly involved, one has to wonder who is the parent and who is the child.
:smokin:
-
On 2004-01-24 11:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The problem with program parents is they are overly enmeshed in their child's emotional growth. So overly involved, one has to wonder who is the parent and who is the child.
:smokin: "
:tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup:
-
***There's your problem. You expected "them" to do it for your daughter. There will never be positive results unless the kid, and for that matter, the whole family, is open and willing to make changes. No one could do it for your daughter, she had to do it herself.***
They offer a "guarentee". That implies that "sucess" is primarily determined by the "method". How do you offer a guarentee if success is dependent solely on the teens willingness to change. Unless of course, your "method" is pretty heavy on brainwashing/ BM conditioning- whatever you choose to call it- which is being forced upon unwilling participants to begin with?
So, if constant "conditioning" for a year or two doesn't "take" the first time around, they'll take a kid back who is not "doing it for themselves"? If they didn't buy into the conditioning the first time around, what is going to magically change the second go-round?
How does the "treatment" change? More drastic and austere BM torture techniques? Less contact with family, more time in the torture chamber? Less eye contact with peers? Less food to eat? What techniques will be employed to "guarentee success" with an unwilling participant?
Not that I believe anyone posting here is qualified to answer these questions honestly or accurately.
-
Who offers a guarantee? WWASP does not offer a guarantee. Any program that does would be red flag for sure.
-
Warrenty...same,same.
-
Wouldn't a guarantee be that they "guarantee" they will heal your child?
A warranty just means that if they go back to their old behaviors after graduation they can go back w/o paying tuition for a couple of months.
BIG DIFFERENCE.
-
On 2004-01-24 11:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The problem with program parents is they are overly enmeshed in their child's emotional growth. So overly involved, one has to wonder who is the parent and who is the child.
:smokin: "
Not all program parents are that involved in their kid's emotional growth. Just the ones that expected the program to help their child and decided it wasn't fast enough or good enough to suit them and continue to blame someone. I agree, who is the parent and who is the child? The child gets what they want one way or the other. The parent becomes a victim once again. Round and round we go...
-
***Not all program parents are that involved in their kid's emotional growth.***
This is so true. Impossible when the teen is hundreds or thousands of miles away.
***The child gets what they want one way or the other. The parent becomes a victim once again. Round and round we go..***
I'm beginning to get the picture.
Parents feelings of being "victimized" by their all-powerful teen are validated and worked.
They are conditioned to believe that being "at cause in the lives"- the solution to this unequal power dynamic with their teen- is resolved by enrolling them in a program. In fact, the "only solution".
I would think that this approach certainly elimates the uncomfortable feelings of being a victim for all parents who subscribe to it.