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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: surfdal on January 04, 2004, 06:44:00 PM

Title: edmund muskie
Post by: surfdal on January 04, 2004, 06:44:00 PM
while i was being held captive by the seed in ft lauderdale on andrews ave, had to be 1971, i'm thinking , there came a time when presidential candidate edmund muskie came to visit to see the seed show for himself. as usual art came out to escort the influential guest and to put the seed monkeys thru their paces..usually by a show of hands that indicated agreement with or emphasized whatever particular bullshit point art was trying to make with his prospective mark and he asked.. " does anyone here think that marijuana should be legal?" ..my lone hand went up high..a gasp blew thru the crowd..ruroh..i had done it now.."ok dal stand up and tell us just what you mean" says art.."well i just dont believe possession of a flower justifies imprisoning a human being " i said..or there abouts..lol "thanks dal...i see no one else agrees. sit down"..
art and muskie leave and OMFUGGINGOD da shit hits the fan..."ok dal ..stand up.."WHERE DO YOU GET OFF???"(always wondered what that meant)...etc etc etc ..yall know what happened next..same old crap.. but i did wonder..afterward..something happened out in front of the seed with reporters and ed muskie that envolved him crying on camera and ultimately was the beginning of the end for his presidential candicacy ..does anyone remember what this incident intailed??? just curious on anyones take on any of this..strike any chords?
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: GregFL on January 07, 2004, 12:03:00 PM
I have a newspaper article somewhere on Muskie's visit. I think he called the Seed Remarkable or something. I am going to dig it up and reread it.

It was Idiots like Muskie that helped pushed our parents into believing the con. All types of authority figures, politicians, law enforcement members and celebrities helped put up the smoke screen of legitimacy in front of the dangerous cult of the Seed.

Innocence implies the ability to restrain from the initiation of aggression, and to question those who don't.
Sorin Cucerai

Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2004, 10:00:00 PM
That was a hell of a story dude.  

Congrats on having the awareness of the truth at that age, and to having the guts to say it.

 :exclaim:  :exclaim:
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: echothis on February 14, 2005, 10:18:00 PM
I was there when Muskie came through.  He and Art were sitting on stools.  We were at the old white house in Fort Lauderdale sitting outside (as usual) as they were seated in front of us.  I was maybe 3 rows back but in line with them.  
Art had a select few Seedlings stand up and tell their stories about past drug use and how the Seed Saved them.  The cameras were rolling and Muskie got emotional ::mecry:: because of these stories.  The place was packed with kids.     I think the only thing you could see with the finished product was up close shots of Art and Muskie.  

Do we know each other?????? :wave:
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Thom on February 15, 2005, 10:54:00 AM
What I remember about the Muskie thing was that he was accused of making reference to a comment he had made during his '68 VP bid w/Humphrey while visiting The Seed during the next campain. [The ironic thing was that Muskie's outburst was provoked by one of Nixon's dirty tricks?a letter in the Union Leader alleging he called French Canadians "Canucks"?a derogatory term to some?plus an article saying his wife drank, smoked, and cursed in an "unladylike" way.] (taken from http://www.goodbyemag.com/mar/muskie.htm (http://www.goodbyemag.com/mar/muskie.htm))
in '72, while running for Pres., this stuff was dragged up again, and Muskie got emotional. ::mecry:: This was viewed as (or presented by his detractors as) a sign of weakness, and not very 'Presidential' sort of like Howard Dean last year saying "yipee!"

When the story broke, Art flew up to Maine to defend Muskie against the attacks by the press. There was another emotional scene  :cry2:  which pretty much ended his bid as he was viewed as unstable. Just goes to show how screwed up our society has become when it is viewed as weakness when a person, especially a man, emotes in public. It's like we want non-feeling robots filling our leadership spots.

_________________
later, Thom

I think I know where I got off track! I thought the 11th step said 'Sought through beer and medication to remove our conscious contact w/ God...I plead lysdexia!
Who wants to say why we sing jingle bells?[ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-02-15 08:08 ]

Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Ft. Lauderdale on February 15, 2005, 11:01:00 AM
Thom- thats about how I heard it, saw it in magazines and newspaper articals.
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Antigen on February 15, 2005, 01:22:00 PM
Or maybe we want strong leaders w/ enough discretion to not make themselves vulnerable or lay open their private affairs in inapropriate, public situations.

But that would be contrary to Program dogma about the virtue of powerlessness and habitual confession to relative strangers.
 :roll:

668: The Neighbor of the Beast
--Anonymous Postman

Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Ft. Lauderdale on February 15, 2005, 03:16:00 PM
Antigen- If your husband cries at a sad or moving movie- do you laugh at him?  I don't get your response??? :???:
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Ft. Lauderdale on February 15, 2005, 03:18:00 PM
The guy was moved by his experience at the seed.
I think anyone would be lying if they wern't touched by an event or something happening there.
In fact I bet everyone on this site shed a tear or two while they were there. ::mecry::
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Antigen on February 15, 2005, 04:04:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-02-15 12:16:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Antigen- If your husband cries at a sad or moving movie- do you laugh at him?  I don't get your response??? :???: "


No, but he's not running for public office. And I'm pretty certain that if he did he'd run on a solid platform, not tear jerking emotional manipulation.

We do shake our heads and mutter, though, every time a yenzer gets on TV and starts the waterworks. Happens every damned time, too! That Joe Schmo guy, where the guy thought it was reality tv but he was the only one who wasn't a hired actor? He cried. So did some football star when he had the spotlight. I tell ya, just about the only famous yenzer not to cry on national tv, given the chance of course, was Fred Rogers. I wish I'd given him more respect when he was around.

Black markets will always be with us. But they will recede in importance when our public morality is consistent with our private one.


Eric Schlosser, Reefer Madness

Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Antigen on February 15, 2005, 04:05:00 PM
Quote

On 2005-02-15 12:18:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"The guy was moved by his experience at the seed.

I think anyone would be lying if they wern't touched by an event or something happening there.

In fact I bet everyone on this site shed a tear or two while they were there. ::noway::  

Necessity never made a good bargain
--Benjamin Franklin Apr. 1734

Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Thom on February 16, 2005, 12:09:00 AM
Ginger, what 'phase' did you make at the Seed?
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Thom on February 16, 2005, 12:15:00 AM
yenzer? Google wouldn't tell me what that means :cry:
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Antigen on February 16, 2005, 01:08:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-02-15 21:09:00, Thom wrote:

"Ginger, what 'phase' did you make at the Seed?
"


chicklet

You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.
--Aldous Huxley, author

Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Antigen on February 16, 2005, 01:16:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-02-15 21:15:00, Thom wrote:

"yenzer? Google wouldn't tell me what that means :cry: "


Ah, sorry. I thought that would come up pretty easy, but it doesn't.

http://www.pitt.edu/utimes/issues/29/030697/16.html (http://www.pitt.edu/utimes/issues/29/030697/16.html)

Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)

Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Thom on February 16, 2005, 01:28:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-02-15 22:16:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-02-15 21:15:00, Thom wrote:


"yenzer? Google wouldn't tell me what that means :cry: "




Ah, sorry. I thought that would come up pretty easy, but it doesn't.



http://www.pitt.edu/utimes/issues/29/030697/16.html (http://www.pitt.edu/utimes/issues/29/030697/16.html)

Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)


"


I'm a little hard-headed, granite, but I didn't see that word there. Is it 'you all are'? If that's the case, does it include all Y'all?
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Antigen on February 16, 2005, 12:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-02-15 22:28:00, Thom wrote:


I'm a little hard-headed, granite, but I didn't see that word there. Is it 'you all are'? If that's the case, does it include all Y'all?
"


Yeah. The professor spells it "yunz". But it usually sounds more like "yenz". It's kind of a compliment when someone calls you yenz. People here really do have sort of a mass low self esteem complex and that one distinctive word is like an emblem of all that they think is shameful about the local culture. So if someone uses it around you, it may mean they sort of trust you a little.

I think it's sort of funny because it's by no means the worst gramatical error in common speech. Shakespeare would be lost here because the words "to be" are not used. The road "needs salted" or the dog "needs worshed", but nothing at all is to be. A guy from So. Africa who moved here a few years ago actually looked up the reason why. It's because of the German culure. In German, there is no form of "to be" and that's carried over into the local language.

Anyway, aside from that the men tend to cry whenever you put a camera in their faces, I like the local culture a lot! It's not unlike how Lyons Park was when we were kids, except that there's a much more enduring and solid claim to history. So I'm hoping it'll keep on not progressing and getting with the times in some ways.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

--Thomas Jefferson

Title: edmund muskie
Post by: cleveland on February 16, 2005, 01:46:00 PM
I never cried at the Seed. I wanted to, as it was a sign of being authentic or real, but could not shed a tear. I was completely emotionally shut down, and I had been for a number of years prior to entering the Seed. This was a symptom of the depression that I felt, and that continued on through my Seed experience for a number of years after.

Today I am very emotional, and as my wife likes to point out, I cry way more than she does. This is a tremendous release to me, and I usually cry when something moves me. It's part of being authentic and human.

There was a lot of tears and some sobbing at the Seed, and I'm sure it was well-intentioned, but I am also sure a lot of it was forced.

I remember Art defending Muskie on this, to his credit, but on the other hand, since all my emotions were subject to intense self-editing, how could I be authentic at the Seed?

I refuse to subject my emotions to anyone's expectations - I will laugh, cry, and get outraged when I feel that way. Damn good feeling too.
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: wtaylorg on February 16, 2005, 02:11:00 PM
I cried at the Seed when I was originally sent there in '78. I cried everytime I was called on in raps. I think because I was 14 and afraid, they kept telling me I was a punk from the suburbs, that if I had ever been in their "streets" they would have had me for lunch or something like that. I think because of that and because they kept telling me my family didn't care about me, the furthest thing from the truth. My Mom was so worried about me getting raped in Youth Commission, she sold her antique to get the $3000.00 that it cost to send me to the Seed in '78.
I just sort of bought into the whole thing. I can remember having to "testify in the group with tears streaming down my face that Art saved my life. Which is funny because I had only seen him once.
After moving to Ft. Lauderdale in '82, I never cried again at the Seed. I think inside I must have known it wasn't a place that I felt like I could be myself at. I know I pretended to be somebody I wasn't. Whether it was trying to pick up a bit of a southern accent, because of guys like Phil S. or Brad B. I always felt like they wanted more from me than just me. Which is ironic, because they always said you can be yourself at the Seed, and you are loved and wanted.
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: echothis on February 16, 2005, 09:26:00 PM
I wasn't implying he lost his presidential aspirations due to his meltdown at the Seed.  I was telling what I remembered.
 :silly:
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: surfdal on February 23, 2005, 10:07:00 AM
thanks for all the response yall.somehow ive managed to block a good bit of my seed experiences out..dispised  the seed and everything it stood for..but was trapped and had to dance the dance in order to find the correct time to make the change.. knew many others who were also dancin their asses off...lol only part i fondly remember was the entertaining times whenhuman dramas erupted and staff's would split over romantic entanglements or truth's divulged. remember a very popular staff named "charlie" who caused extreme drama to erupt by driving thru the lil warehouses behind the meeting site on andrews ave.. raising fuggin hell over this or that..was the only relief from the deadly boredom that truely was the basis of Art's mysterious techniques.. bore 'em to death  they'll dance the dance just to survive..  oh by the way ...jack mcn was my friend..even knew him in tallahassee after we both had ende our mutual seed ordeal
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: surfdal on February 23, 2005, 10:19:00 AM
dunno if we know each other but personally ive never been able to keep any kind of a low profile anywhere ive ever been  ..but, my name is dal i have brothers  doug and dave all 3 of us were in the seed at andrews ave '71-'72. i was 17-18 then i think,   our step father was an asst states atty at the time and therefor a valuble ally to art in the respect that he gained clients(grant money) by referral from the courts.. any way i split after a newcomer came in who happened to know just what kind of up to no good i had really been in.. and i didnt wanna go thru the sheer torture of over again ...lol..yet again..ohno.. was there by way of court and my charges had been dropped.. so into the wind i went.. my brothers tho , continued to be under the hammer and moved on to the sr 84 seed phase. glad i missed it.
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Thom on February 23, 2005, 12:15:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-02-23 07:07:00, surfdal wrote:

"oh by the way ...jack mcn was my friend..even knew him in tallahassee after we both had ende our mutual seed ordeal"


HEY Dal, I'm Jack's little brother. I can't say I recognize your name, but always nice to hear from a friend of Jack's!
Title: edmund muskie
Post by: Anonymous on May 06, 2005, 10:59:00 PM
Yeah...  like Bill Clinton....the democrate :smokin: