Fornits
General Interest => Tacitus' Realm => Topic started by: Maximilian on September 14, 2010, 01:24:30 PM
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Do you believe in God?
Why, or why not?
I've never been able to believe there isn't some sort of God, since I was a small child. To me the idea of Atheism doesn't make any sense, I believe we are surrounded by evidence that the Universe exists for a reason. I don't think it's possible to comprehend what God really is, or the reasons or explanations why things the way they are, I think these are our own human interpretations of the Universe, and I think our viewpoint is somewhat limited to come to a conclusion on what we are currently experiencing while alive. I believe there is much more to the world than we know or see. When I get in trouble I ask God for help and forgiveness when necessary, I believe in the power of prayer. Various religions have formed their own interpretations of what they believe God is, and how we must obey God. In the long history of human beings, spirituality has played an important role, and all civilizations have some sort of God or Gods that they worship. I believe in a single, all powerful, and united God force, my best way of describing how I feel is that God is everything, and anything that ever will be. I have read several books on near death experiences, after one of my parents explained their own near death experience and decided to share this information with me. Their sincerity in the experience, and learning about all the people who have similar experiences is what I view as solid proof that there is life after death, and that we are in fact immortal souls.
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:nods:
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Definitely not in a traditional, biblical sense. But the world is a magical, awe inspiring, pattern driven place. And fucked up, too.
Still, there is no way I can believe there is an omnipotent, all loving God up there on a perch. Definitely not an interventionist one. I'm kind of with Bill Maher on that one. Or George Carlin.
I am comfortable with uncertainty and don't believe in Jesus as a "get out of jail for free card."
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Yes,
What I don't believe is humans can explain why, conclusively.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ25Ai__FYU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ25Ai__FYU)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ25Ai__FYU
Mr. Jung makes my point.
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I was brought up in a strict catholic family, knelt every night beside my bed to say prayers, was an altar boy who served 6:30 am mass and 9:15 mass every Sunday starting at age 9 or 10 for many years, catholic school. Had family members who were nuns so we visited convents on weekends. We took a family vacation to Canada to see the shrines and even visited a bridge supported by Rosary beads. I carried rosary beads around with me. But my parents were cool but I knew my mom really wanted me to become a priest. They saw I didn’t buy into the whole religious thing by the time I was in high school, and they didn’t push me (I tried, I really did). I was too horny to become a priest when I was growing up so that was taken off the table and not to be disrespectful to other people of faith but I just couldn’t believe that there was some guy up there watching over us making the rules. Life was just too unorganized to believe that crap.
I believe Religion evolved out of need. People are thinkers and need answers to questions in order to sleep at night and religion filled that void. All the stories of Moses and the apostles etc. were probably true stories but with a biased twist to suit or support a core belief.
I believe our DNA arrived via an asteroid or meteor a billion years ago and has spread onto a million or more other planets some of the DNA survived (like here on earth). There are billions of other earths. What it all means I don’t know.
...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ25Ai__FYU
Mr. Jung makes my point.
That's Doctor Jung, Danny.
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It's impossible to know. I'll find out when I die. Until then it's kind of irrelevant.
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It's impossible to know. I'll find out when I die. Until then it's kind of irrelevant.
Why?
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It's impossible to know. I'll find out when I die. Until then it's kind of irrelevant.
Why?
Because if god exists and merely pretends not to exist he might as well not exist at all for all intents and purposes.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
— Epicurus, philosopher (c. 341-270 BCE)
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That Epicurus quote is exactly why I can't buy in the idea of an Omnipotent, all-loving God. My problem with religion is the people. :)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ25Ai__FYU
Mr. Jung makes my point.
That's Doctor Jung, Danny.
I am very well aware that Mr. Jung is a Doctor of Medicine, he actually interned quite literally during WW1. His relationship with Sigmund Freud was a interesting one up until they split over the "unconscious". Mr.Jung believed in a deeper unconscious dealing with mythology. Mr. Jung, is well known for his psychoanalytic movement.
I am not a scholar by no means but I have been reading Jung for some time. Freud, was a great read for his interpretation of dreams.
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That Epicurus quote is exactly why I can't buy in the idea of an Omnipotent, all-loving God. My problem with religion is the people. :)
and for millenniums it has been the people, thanks Psy and Samara.
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There is no choice at the the top to accommodate the optomistic agnostics among us.And though I havn't seen any evedence to the contrary I still simply Hope there is a GOD.
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There is no choice at the the top to accommodate the optomistic agnostics among us.And though I havn't seen any evedence to the contrary I still simply Hope there is a GOD.
Yeah. I suppose at times i'm an optimistic agnostic at times. It would suck if it all ended at death. I'm not sure if I would call it optimism. I expect nothing, but it would be cool to be pleasantly surprised... If there is nothing, at least i'll miss nothing.
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AMEN!
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I fully believe in God, and I believe after my accident I believe more. My son would not of survived if it was not for God's will. His brain injuries were so bad. They told me it would take 6 to 9 months for him to be able to be almost back to normal, let alone walk or talk. But he is already doing almost everything. Of course walking is still in practice and his fine motor skills need some work, but you know what that kid is a miracle fully. Yes, there is a God.
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Sharon, I am so happy for your son and your family. That is truly incredible!
But so many good people do not have this luck. Does that mean God comes through selectively? If so, that seems wrong. (And again, there is no snark in my tone. This has genuinely been a BIG question for me that makes no sense.
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God is 100% arbitrary. No doubt about that.
It might seem wrong, but it isn't.
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I believe Religion evolved out of need. People are thinkers and need answers to questions in order to sleep at night and religion filled that void. All the stories of Moses and the apostles etc. were probably true stories but with a biased twist to suit or support a core belief.
I think this is absolutely true. We're the only ones aware of our own mortality and it's truly frightening to think that life just ends and that's it (used to absolutely terrify me as a small child), so we've come up with ways to comfort ourselves. It's always been a way to explain the unexplainable (thunder, lightening way back when), but it's also for the sheer comfort that "someone" is looking out for us (hence the parental/paternal terms) and that somehow our lives, or some form of them, will continue after death.
I believe our DNA arrived via an asteroid or meteor a billion years ago and has spread onto a million or more other planets some of the DNA survived (like here on earth). There are billions of other earths. What it all means I don’t know.
Interesting.
Sharon, I am so happy for your son and your family. That is truly incredible!
But so many good people do not have this luck. Does that mean God comes through selectively? If so, that seems wrong. (And again, there is no snark in my tone. This has genuinely been a BIG question for me that makes no sense.
Also with zero snark intended, I wonder the exact same thing......which brings up the Epicurus quote that Psy referenced.
(http://http://evolinium.com/images/Robs%20pics/epicurus-quote.jpg)
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I know this isn't the lyrics topic , but I thought it would be just as appropriate here.
God's not doin' so good in the polls
"My God" - Ian Anderson
People -- what have you done --
locked Him in His golden cage.
Made Him bend to your religion --
Him resurrected from the grave.
He is the god of nothing --
if that's all that you can see.
You are the god of everything --
He's inside you and me.
So lean upon Him gently
and don't call on Him to save you
from your social graces
and the sins you used to waive.
The bloody Church of England --
in chains of history --
requests your earthly presence at
the vicarage for tea.
And the graven image you-know-who --
with His plastic crucifix --
he's got him fixed --
confuses me as to who and where and why --
as to how he gets his kicks.
Confessing to the endless sin --
the endless whining sounds.
You'll be praying till next Thursday to
all the gods that you can count.
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Sharon, I am so happy for your son and your family. That is truly incredible!
But so many good people do not have this luck. Does that mean God comes through selectively? If so, that seems wrong. (And again, there is no snark in my tone. This has genuinely been a BIG question for me that makes no sense.
I can completely understand the doubt, I really can....so many things bad happen...such as Tim dying, and the kids hurt so bad...then of course the road to recovery. I asked this question of my pastor, "Why does God not answer my prayers" It was explained to me like this...like parents, God has got to say no to things that can maybe effect our years down the line. The purpose we originally came to exsist for. For example: If a child wants chocolate, why do parents say not to much or no?? Because they can get sick, it is not that we do not want our children to have it but it is for there own good. OK so maybe we ask God for that jo or to keep the relationship going strong or simply to save someone's life...He has to say no to things once in awhile, not that he wants to see us hurting, what parent (God), wants to see that. But he can forsee into the future as to where that realstionship or job, etc...just is not good for us as we may think it is. There are other reasons our prayers get ignored.
Lack of Faith in God - MATT 21:22 (NLT) You can pray for anything, and if you have faith, you will receive it.
Ok so we see that verse and say, well I believe in God why am I being ignored....Well maybe our hearts are not pure enough and maybe just maybe we are still doing the bad stuff such as Gossip, lying, hurting others, etc...therefore we are not walking totally with him....see my point??
another reason- wrong motives- James 4:2-3 (NLT) Yet you don't have what you want because you don't ask God for it> And even when you ask, you don't get it because your motives are all wrong-you want only what will give you pleasure.
Ok so we look at this, and actually it makes sense, How many times have we said"God if you help me through this, I will give myself to you..I'll come to church, I'll be better person, just please see me threw this? I can admit I do it all the time...along those lines. Well God is trying to tell us something here, those promises to change just are not cutting it. God is waiting for us to show him the unselfish heart.To show him we rely on him fully and except he is in control of everything period. We are not in control of things he is.
For example: We I was holding Tim and Tim was dying I begged God to take me instead...well obviously that did not happen. It was Tim's time to go, and God needed me to remain here, I am still figuring out why, but you know there is a reason. If God listened to my prayers in sadness and confusion and desperation, then if I did die, where would that have left my children? Ok so then I also same day within minutes prayed, God save my kids please...well ok...he did, eventhough the injuries were so horrible in Mason, look at how fast and fully almost that little boy pulled threw. Honestly, he by all rights with that degree of brain injuries could of died, for 12 days he laid in a coma..12. That brings us to the date of 08-13-2010...now a month later look at the young boy, he is almost recovered. I believe it is because so many I mean many are unselfishly praying for this baby. Just look at his facebook page. Tons of people heard about this accident and were so sad by it. Ok so back on track, how many times did we say, you know what God please let so and so be in my life, and let it work out?? Ok well maybe so and so was not for us eventhough wereally loved that person..Ok so why did God allow me and Tim to be together just to take him from me....well honestly I do not fully know, but my heart says this...I would of not pasted the chance at a minute of true love then to never experience it ever. The love we had was so intense and beautiful, I believe it will carry thru me the rest of my life. He made an impact on who I am and what I will do in the future. He also opened my eyes to how to freely love. That was Tim's gift to me. So, you see maybe that was Tim's purpose, some may say thats nothing, but is it??
Ok so am I angry with God, heck yeah, what kid is not mad at their parents (God), and am I hurt by his choices???Yes, deeply. But who am I to question the big guy. I am one of many whom have had the pain and horrifying decisions and consequences.
Ok back on track...
ISA 59:1-2 (NLT) Listen! The Lord's arm is not weak to save you, nor is his ear too deaf to hear your call,.It's your sins that have cut you off from God. Because of your sons, he has turned away and will not listen anymore.
Wow pretty heavy there..Yes, we all sin, but are we changing it or remaining on the same pattern of life? I do not know if any of this helped you. I actually have been finding comfort lately in God, because the experience I went thru was so horrific for me to even understand, but honestly...the church has been helping understand the why's. Now if I can sit here and tell you Yes there is a God, and you know first hand the horror I just went threw in my life, then please take it into consideration a bit. Read the verses for yourself, and believe it or not call a pastor..I got an awesome one so if you want his number let me know. People can help you reconnect with God, but you got to be ready. But you got to have an open mind too...ok so about now there will be a few to make fun of me, and you know something It will not bother me at all..Hey, I got lucky as ever. That is a miracle fully. I saw it for myself so I got my proof, maybe you all's proof is next in different ways, but if you close yours eyes to tight you will miss the messages and the chances God is trying to show you.
OK hopes this helps some..
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It's impossible to know. I'll find out when I die. Until then it's kind of irrelevant.
Hi PSY, yes I deeply understand and respect this statement....however have you ever I mean ever looked around and saw something totally impossible happen for the good? or see something that just put a feeling all through your body of peacefulness. Even something little like a sunset or sunrise? Well, I think that is God trying to say something. But if you keep your ears and eyes closed and question everything with science or an explaination....well it distracts you from seeing and hearing. You are right in a way though, guess we find out when the big day does arrive. :peace:
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I know this isn't the lyrics topic , but I thought it would be just as appropriate here.
God's not doin' so good in the polls
"My God" - Ian Anderson
People -- what have you done --
locked Him in His golden cage.
Made Him bend to your religion --
Him resurrected from the grave.
He is the god of nothing --
if that's all that you can see.
You are the god of everything --
He's inside you and me.
So lean upon Him gently
and don't call on Him to save you
from your social graces
and the sins you used to waive.
The bloody Church of England --
in chains of history --
requests your earthly presence at
the vicarage for tea.
And the graven image you-know-who --
with His plastic crucifix --
he's got him fixed --
confuses me as to who and where and why --
as to how he gets his kicks.
Confessing to the endless sin --
the endless whining sounds.
You'll be praying till next Thursday to
all the gods that you can count.
You totally have place a exceelent example here...great lyrics...Yes, the religions did twist the words to suit thier purposes. Like for example the Catholic church placed extra books into the Bible. Ok wel those book were not written from the direction of God, they were fully admitted to be written by people. The problem is God did not say, hey pay me and you will go to Heaven..The Cathoilc Church use to in the olden years make people pay to pray for souls to go to Heaven and to get penance. Now that is not happening. Once you die, you die and end up where your suppose to be...either good side or the bad side....no in between. How are we going to think hey I can go to Hell, and aunt Suzi can pray for my soul and pay the church 100.00, and hey I'll make to Heaven after all. No, that is twisted beliefs. The Catholic Church created Pergatory. (however you spell it). I believe they did the creation of Pergatory to scare people into their ways and beliefs. Heck Pergatory is a nasty scarry place, who wants to be stuck there???? I rather go straight to Heaven personally.
2 TIM 3:16a (NLT) All Scripture is inspired by God..
OK so the 14 boook extra that the Catholics placed in are public knowledge to be man created and inspired so why even bother with them?? And why did they wait till 1946 to adopt them and slap them in a Bible?? Seems pretty fishy to me there. And I am not bashing Catholics either.. I was raised Catholic. I just am questioning their teachings.
Different Religions from begining of time have twisted things to suit. We see it everywhere..Fighting about religions. The killing, the hurting of each other. Do we honestly think God is really enjoying all this death we are letting happen? No not at all. UNless the directions come fully straight from him, noone has a right to kill or murder. I think that is pretty simple. However, there are exceptions for example: when he says Thou shall not kill, that means to plan it or to kill on purpose...not to protect one's self or family from danger...OK so some idiot breaks into your home with a gun..we all know his intent right..ok so you got a knife and stab him to protect your family...Umm well, you had a right to protect, that was instigated by the guy breaking in to begin with. To kill or murder with mailous in your heart is a sin.
Ok so we got churches left and right and we got diffrent views left and right, but what it all boils down to is this...One God. This one God has many different names per every different Bible or religion..but all the same it generally is one..unless your into Wicca which is a totally different angle. OK so we got One Superior Being....well maybe we all need to note that...One. Call him whatever you wish but honor the One. In the Bible it says nothing of paying tribute to anyone but God, nothing at all about praying to saints or anyone else but God...I think people need to remember that one fully. If anything....God wiped out a whole city praying to a calf.....EX 32: 25-28 (NLT)
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No, but I still curse him and beg him for things.
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If there is such thing as an agnostic Jewish person, then that is me. I don't think anyone believes in G-d all the time. Judaism allows for debate and I love that. The Rabbi's sermon addressed that tonight. He had to be nearing retirement to address it, but he did. I fall into the category of being an agnostic Jewish person. I am comfortable with that too. The Rabbi knows that, too, and he is comfortable with that.