Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => News Items => Topic started by: wdtony on August 19, 2010, 05:18:06 AM
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http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/0 ... -hill.html (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/06/12/1496598/teenager-found-dead-at-rock-hill.html)
Teenager found dead at Rock Hill psychiatric center
By Cleve R. Wootson Jr.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/0 ... z0x2eD4utj (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/06/12/1496598/teenager-found-dead-at-rock-hill.html#ixzz0x2eD4utj)
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New hope website:
http://www.newhopetreatment.com/home.htm (http://www.newhopetreatment.com/home.htm)
Do you think the staff restrained him for complaining about chest pain?
This is a "so-called" psychiatric treatment center but..... read who they won't accept:
New Hope is generally able to admit and treat adolescents whose behaviors are such that they do not require excessive restraint or seclusion for their assaultive or destructive behaviors. Although in some cases we do accept and treat youth with histories of documented physical aggression, we cannot serve extremely aggressive residents who are likely to put other residents or staff at risk or who regularly disrupt the treatment of others.
Adolescents who are actively psychotic or have an Axis II personality disorder, autism, or pervasive developmental disorders are generally not appropriate for our programs.
http://www.newhopetreatment.com/admissions/criteria.htm (http://www.newhopetreatment.com/admissions/criteria.htm)
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Charlotte Observer
Teenager found dead at Rock Hill psychiatric center (http://http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/06/12/1496598/teenager-found-dead-at-rock-hill.html)
By Cleve R. Wootson Jr.
cwootson@charlotteobserver.com
Posted: Saturday, Jun. 12, 2010
Geez... From the above article:
Editor's note: Comments have been removed for this story due to multiple abusive reports.[/list]
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Charlotte Observer
Teenager found dead at Rock Hill psychiatric center (http://http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/06/12/1496598/teenager-found-dead-at-rock-hill.html)
By Cleve R. Wootson Jr.
cwootson@charlotteobserver.com
Posted: Saturday, Jun. 12, 2010
Geez... From the above article:
Editor's note: Comments have been removed for this story due to multiple abusive reports.[/list]
Geez, that is usually what happens when posters abuse their privilege to post. They will be removed. Bravo, more editors should do the same.
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WMBFNEWS.com
Police investigate death of NC teen at SC facility (http://http://www.wmbfnews.com/global/story.asp?s=12641427)
Associated Press - June 13, 2010 12:25 PM ET
ROCK HILL, S.C. (AP) - Police are investigating the death of a North Carolina teenager at a South Carolina psychiatric treatment facility.
The Charlotte Observer reported that 17-year-old Levi Snyder of Lenoir, N.C., died Saturday morning at the New Hope Carolinas treatment center.
Rock Hill police Detective Kathy Harveston said the early investigation turned up no evidence of foul play. The teen was a patient at the center that treats emotionally disturbed adolescents. Harveston said Snyder had been treated for chest congestion last week and was on antibiotics.
The York County coroner is expected to conduct an autopsy this week.
Information from: The Charlotte Observer, http://www.charlotteobserver.com (http://www.charlotteobserver.com)
Copyright 2010 The Associated Press.
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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 59350.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7159350.html) "Teen who collapsed at residential treatment facility dies"
By TERRI LANGFORD
Copyright 2010 Houston Chronicle
Aug. 19, 2010, 8:52AM
The last line of the article: "Two months ago, the Chronicle and Tribune detailed how more than 250 confirmed incidents of abuse or neglect had occurred since 2008 at residential treatment facilities, where the state's most troubled foster care children are placed.
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Yet another death from nobody stopping to check if it was serious.
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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7159350.html "Teen who collapsed at residential treatment facility dies"
By TERRI LANGFORD
Copyright 2010 Houston Chronicle
Aug. 19, 2010, 8:52AM
The last line of the article: "Two months ago, the Chronicle and Tribune detailed how more than 250 confirmed incidents of abuse or neglect had occurred since 2008 at residential treatment facilities, where the state's most troubled foster care children are placed.
So is this supposed to be out of line with Hospitals, Senior Living centers, Public Schools, DayCare Centers ect.......The record for well loved people with responsible parents going to hospitals, public schools and Day care centers is even worse for neglect and abuse. Just read the threads and posts from a month or two ago.
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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 59350.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7159350.html)
"Teen who collapsed at residential treatment facility dies"
By TERRI LANGFORD
Copyright 2010 Houston Chronicle
Aug. 19, 2010, 8:52AM
The last line of the article: "Two months ago, the Chronicle and Tribune detailed how more than 250 confirmed incidents of abuse or neglect had occurred since 2008 at residential treatment facilities, where the state's most troubled foster care children are placed.
So is this supposed to be out of line with Hospitals, Senior Living centers, Public Schools, DayCare Centers ect.......The record for well loved people with responsible parents going to hospitals, public schools and Day care centers is even worse for neglect and abuse. Just read the threads and posts from a month or two ago.
Those >250 abuse case are discussed in the following thread, which starts off with a pertinent article by Terri Langford and Emily Ramshaw, of the Houston Chronicle and Texas Tribune, respectively:
KIDS CHOKED, STRIPPED, BEATEN AT FACILITIES
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30651 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30651)[/list]
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So is this supposed to be out of line with Hospitals, Senior Living centers, Public Schools, DayCare Centers ect.......The record for well loved people with responsible parents going to hospitals, public schools and Day care centers is even worse for neglect and abuse. Just read the threads and posts from a month or two ago.
We looked at this a couple of years ago, I believe……If we looked at abuse with the consideration of “all” reported instances programs would be considered extremely safe (which they are) and occurrences of abuse would be considered extremely rare in programs in comparison to other settings.
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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 59350.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7159350.html)
"Teen who collapsed at residential treatment facility dies"
By TERRI LANGFORD
Copyright 2010 Houston Chronicle
Aug. 19, 2010, 8:52AM
The last line of the article: "Two months ago, the Chronicle and Tribune detailed how more than 250 confirmed incidents of abuse or neglect had occurred since 2008 at residential treatment facilities, where the state's most troubled foster care children are placed.
So is this supposed to be out of line with Hospitals, Senior Living centers, Public Schools, DayCare Centers ect.......The record for well loved people with responsible parents going to hospitals, public schools and Day care centers is even worse for neglect and abuse. Just read the threads and posts from a month or two ago.
Those >250 abuse case are discussed in the following thread, which starts off with a pertinent article by Terri Langford and Emily Ramshaw, of the Houston Chronicle and Texas Tribune, respectively:
KIDS CHOKED, STRIPPED, BEATEN AT FACILITIES
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30651 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30651)[/list]
We looked at this a couple of years ago, I believe……If we looked at abuse with the consideration of "all" reported instances programs would be considered extremely safe (which they are) and occurrences of abuse would be considered extremely rare in programs in comparison to other settings.
Well, I guess ya musta just "overlooked" the pertinent details in this investigation, eh? :D
According to the database (http://http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-residential-treatment-center-violations/) in question,
The database includes violations that were confirmed at Texas' licensed residential treatment centers over the last two years by inspectors from the Department of Family and Protective Services. Not all violations in that time period are included — just those Tribune researchers found to include abuse, neglect or serious mistreatment. The records analyzed come from the agency's licensing website. Incidents are not included on the website until the RTC has had its due process, or waived its rights.[/list]
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I was not referring to this specific case or occurrence. I was referring to abuse in general and in response to DannyII's question. If we stepped back and looked at the larger picture programs would be among the safest.
In 2006, approximately 3.3 million reports involving 6 million children were made to Child Protective Services (CPS) agencies. Of these, 61.7% were accepted as needing further investigation, and, once evaluated, the investigations concluded that child abuse and neglect had affected approximately 905,000 children, with 16% of this total representing cases of substantiated physical abuse. The most common form of substantiated abuse in 2006 was child neglect, which accounted for 64.1% of cases, followed by child sexual abuse (8.8% of cases) and emotional maltreatment (6.6% of cases).
Link (http://http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/915664-overview)
Ursus if we documented and posted the abuse which occurs outside of programs we would need to post 2,480 occurrences per day, seven days a week 52 weeks a year to document them here on fornits
Thats 5 posts a minute every day 7 days a week at 8 hours a day. If we added elderly abuse we would have to document another 3 posts per minute every day 7 days a week at 8 hours a day. This would not include the time needed to research each occurrence and format them to appear properly here on the forum.
My point being not to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs but merely to place it into perspective and to caution not give the false impression that programs are unsafe.
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My point being not to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs but merely to place it into perspective and to caution not give the false impression that programs are unsafe.
Oh, but your point *IS* to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs. The "impression" that PROGRAMS ARE UNSAFE is a true one!
Anytime you practice coercion as a form of behavior modification, not to mention put kids in control of other kids' progress or punishment, you're gonna have some "unintended consequences." And that is assuming the best of circumstances.
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@Whooter: If you are going by the numbers you will not have accurate data. This is because children in residential treatment mostly have no complaint procedure and don't have access to lodge complaints. If they achieve a level or progress they would not file a complaint due to the fact that they would be punished or set back, not to mention that most are brainwashed by that point and unable to understand the abuse they have suffered. Therefore, thousands of potential complaints are never heard or counted. The few that do get a complaint through are lucky to have gotten away or in other cases, unlucky to have died.
I don't have proof of this. Residential treatment programs refuse my requests to "see what they are doing inside" by speaking with the kids. Anyone can obviously see the problem with how these programs keep information from escaping to the public. But I know it happens, it happened in all Straight programs and from reports, the majority of residential treatment programs.
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@Whooter: If you are going by the numbers you will not have accurate data. This is because children in residential treatment mostly have no complaint procedure and don't have access to lodge complaints. If they achieve a level or progress they would not file a complaint due to the fact that they would be punished or set back, not to mention that most are brainwashed by that point and unable to understand the abuse they have suffered. Therefore, thousands of potential complaints are never heard or counted. The few that do get a complaint through are lucky to have gotten away or in other cases, unlucky to have died.
I don't have proof of this. Residential treatment programs refuse my requests to "see what they are doing inside" by speaking with the kids. Anyone can obviously see the problem with how these programs keep information from escaping to the public. But I know it happens, it happened in all Straight programs and from reports, the majority of residential treatment programs.
If a child is being abused they can tell their teacher or therapist the same as any other school. They can report this to their parents also when they speak. I don’t think that the numbers could be suppressed at all. But I do understand your thinking this way if you base your conclusion on program experiences like straight. I have spoken to kids inside of programs and they are nothing like straight, they don’t brainwash the kids and they have conduits to the outside via therapists and teachers who are bound to report abuse. They have parents and family on the outside who they can speak to and visit with.
Unlike programs of the past programs today have open doors and allow researchers and writers to come and go and follow students progress and report their findings in the form of study results, editorials and books. If there were evidence of brainwashing or abuse this would be uncovered.
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My point being not to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs but merely to place it into perspective and to caution not give the false impression that programs are unsafe.
Oh, but your point *IS* to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs.
I supplied facts and figures. If you feel this minimizes the abuse which occurred within residential treatment centers then this is your personal take. But it is not my intent. I think it is important to look at and post as much information as is available so the reader can make an informed decision themselves.
The "impression" that PROGRAMS ARE UNSAFE is a true one!
I guess we can see it is a relative term. To the kid who is abused at home by his parents and ends up in a program which doesnt abuse him then programs are defined as a safe haven for him. To the kid who is abused in a program the programs can be defined as abusive. So anyone could research and supply a news article to support their own position by siting individual examples. But this is not any more accurate or effective then providing articles of Columbine High school to try to persuade someone that all Public schools are dangerous for a child to attend, (as I demonstrated in another thread). For awhile I was posting an article each day which showed a different public school employee being arrested for child abuse. I did this to demonstrate that I could easily just provide negative information about public schools to give the impression that child predators overrun the public school system. But if you step back you can see that the school system is much safer than the individual articles that I posted. This is the point I am making with the posts you have placed out there. You are intentionally misleading the readers.
What I did was to step back and look at the larger picture which shows an overwhelming number of abuses occurring in this country outside of programs and I think it is important to look at all the data not just the few occurrences inside of programs.
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Once again Whooter you're wasting everyone's time and Ginger's bandwidth. This questions was settled years ago. When comparring the TBS side by side with Public Schools, no matter how you try and spin the numbers the Public Schools come out safer. Now you're attempting to do what you attempted several years ago. The obligation for a childs safety ends for the public schools the moment the child leaves to go home. Something that happens to a child at home, on the weekend, during summer vacation has nothing to do with public school safety. TBS however lock kids down 24 hours per day, and are therefore respondsible for their safety 24 hours a day.
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My point being not to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs but merely to place it into perspective and to caution not give the false impression that programs are unsafe.
Oh, but your point *IS* to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs. The "impression" that PROGRAMS ARE UNSAFE is a true one!
Anytime you practice coercion as a form of behavior modification, not to mention put kids in control of other kids' progress or punishment, you're gonna have some "unintended consequences." And that is assuming the best of circumstances.[/b]
Ok, I have held back for a long time Ursus, reading your unsubstantiated, always outdated rubbish you throw up on these pages, your like looking at a "time warp of useless information" as to what is going on now, present time. Most of you here constantly regurgitate old info and try to correlate it to today. Never taking into consideration that the "new programs today", have learned from there outdated abusive ancestors. The programs that refuse to abandon the methodologies of the past are falling by the wayside, along with there abusive practices.
This whole concept that peer pressure is bad, Bla Bla Bla!!!!!, well get over it. Peer pressure is through out the entire working and social environment. For any of you who work for a living, try getting away from peer pressure. Try to skirt around being coerced by either your boss or fellow workers. Though it maybe subtle when it comes from workers, it is not by the boss. Your families practice a certain degree of coercion and punish you for unfulfilled chores/responsibilities.
Kids dealing with other kids, unless you were a only child and lived in a bubble, kids have been running a good deal of your adolescent life. If you played sports, boys scouts, any school drama, music, theater, debate team, political science teams, you would know about peer pressure and coercion, it is a part of adolescent life.
Most of these kids were talking about today have checked out of society, their suffering depression, there not going to school, some are taking drugs, acting out in a hostile manner.
Placing them in a setting where they will face peer pressure and coercion from other kids in a structured setting that is over seen by qualified staff is not a destructive measure.
Many kids need to be able to deal with these pressures to make it in society. Then begin to learn social skills, learn to stay engaged even when they feel like wanting to run away, learn that there self esteem does not need to be attached to how many kids like you or how they look at you, begin to believe that through hard work and working with others relationships are forged. They ascertain that they need people in order to discover knew ideas, they begin to trust there fellow workers/students.
WTNY said it well, he has no proof, he can not get inside and witness. What I have to ask myself, does anyone here have the credentials, schooling and practice to honor such a invitation. No company in there right mind would let just anybody wonder around their entity. You may ask, "well if they have nothing to hide", that is irresponsible and anyone with common sense knows this.
I suggest if you want into a certain program, go undercover, become a staff member. Find a way to get hired. It has been done before. Become a "whistle blower", take your case to the proper authorities.
Come on Ursus, DJ, Paul, None-Ya, Anne, Frodie, Buzz Kill, Che and the rest of you freedom fighters. Go get them, infiltrate. Put your ass where your mouth is.
I reckon that between all of you folks here, if you were to get hired on, could have at least 1/2 dozen programs shut down by this time next year. I say this because according to all you folks, every program out there is abusive.
So come on, get to work. I would surmise that in 3 maybe 4 years you folks should have all the major Corps. shut down and who knows how many independents.
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I suggest if you want into a certain program, go undercover, become a staff member. Find a way to get hired. It has been done before. Become a "whistle blower", take your case to the proper authorities.
Come on Ursus, DJ, Paul, None-Ya, Anne, Frodie, Buzz Kill, Che and the rest of you freedom fighters. Go get them, infiltrate. Put your ass where your mouth is.
I've been telling these faggots to do this for years! It's a lack of testicular fortitude, lack of willingness to put time into it (most of us have well, y'know, real jobs), general apathy, and the fact that a couple of them would probably psychologically snap, stop playing "infiltration", and start playing "FPS". BTW, at least two of the people in that list (DJ and Che) have worked in them, although they were just working and not infiltrating properly with hidden recording equipment and flash drives.
Hey chuckleheads, even fucking Danny told you to do it. Go do it.
(in b4 "no you go do it Pile")
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My point being not to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs but merely to place it into perspective and to caution not give the false impression that programs are unsafe.
Oh, but your point *IS* to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs. The "impression" that PROGRAMS ARE UNSAFE is a true one!
Anytime you practice coercion as a form of behavior modification, not to mention put kids in control of other kids' progress or punishment, you're gonna have some "unintended consequences." And that is assuming the best of circumstances.[/b]
Ok, I have held back for a long time Ursus, reading your unsubstantiated, always outdated rubbish you throw up on these pages, your like looking at a "time warp of useless information" as to what is going on now, present time. Most of you here constantly regurgitate old info and try to correlate it to today. Never taking into consideration that the "new programs today", have learned from there outdated abusive ancestors. The programs that refuse to abandon the methodologies of the past are falling by the wayside, along with there abusive practices.
This whole concept that peer pressure is bad, Bla Bla Bla!!!!!, well get over it. Peer pressure is through out the entire working and social environment. For any of you who work for a living, try getting away from peer pressure. Try to skirt around being coerced by either your boss or fellow workers. Though it maybe subtle when it comes from workers, it is not by the boss. Your families practice a certain degree of coercion and punish you for unfulfilled chores/responsibilities.
Kids dealing with other kids, unless you were a only child and lived in a bubble, kids have been running a good deal of your adolescent life. If you played sports, boys scouts, any school drama, music, theater, debate team, political science teams, you would know about peer pressure and coercion, it is a part of adolescent life.
Most of these kids were talking about today have checked out of society, their suffering depression, there not going to school, some are taking drugs, acting out in a hostile manner.
Placing them in a setting where they will face peer pressure and coercion from other kids in a structured setting that is over seen by qualified staff is not a destructive measure.
Many kids need to be able to deal with these pressures to make it in society. Then begin to learn social skills, learn to stay engaged even when they feel like wanting to run away, learn that there self esteem does not need to be attached to how many kids like you or how they look at you, begin to believe that through hard work and working with others relationships are forged. They ascertain that they need people in order to discover knew ideas, they begin to trust there fellow workers/students.
WTNY said it well, he has no proof, he can not get inside and witness. What I have to ask myself, does anyone here have the credentials, schooling and practice to honor such a invitation. No company in there right mind would let just anybody wonder around their entity. You may ask, "well if they have nothing to hide", that is irresponsible and anyone with common sense knows this.
I suggest if you want into a certain program, go undercover, become a staff member. Find a way to get hired. It has been done before. Become a "whistle blower", take your case to the proper authorities.
Come on Ursus, DJ, Paul, None-Ya, Anne, Frodie, Buzz Kill, Che and the rest of you freedom fighters. Go get them, infiltrate. Put your ass where your mouth is.
I reckon that between all of you folks here, if you were to get hired on, could have at least 1/2 dozen programs shut down by this time next year. I say this because according to all you folks, every program out there is abusive.
So come on, get to work. I would surmise that in 3 maybe 4 years you folks should have all the major Corps. shut down and who knows how many independents.
Most of the "new programs today" use pretty much the exact same modalities that the old programs did, they're just a lil slicker in their application and certainly so ... as far as their marketing is concerned (oh, and let's not forget that there's always new lingo that can be layered in). Using the group to force conformity onto potentially errant individuals is nothing new, which I imagine you would know given how much a fan you are of TC modalities. And while one might think that personal suffering at the hands of abusers in that "therapeutic milieu" would make a person more sensitive to just how damaging that system can be, apparently not so, in your case.
Your simplistic interpretation of "peer pressure" and "coercion" would be laughable save that it appears you really believe it. It reminds of me of how GGI and PPC used to be described in the literature, giving corny examples of "the way it works," leaving out all evidence of just how easy it is to game that system ... if you are a pathologically-minded abusive manipulator of others, just the sort of person that is supposed to be most "helped" by such a system. Lol.
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My point being not to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs but merely to place it into perspective and to caution not give the false impression that programs are unsafe.
Oh, but your point *IS* to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs. The "impression" that PROGRAMS ARE UNSAFE is a true one!
Anytime you practice coercion as a form of behavior modification, not to mention put kids in control of other kids' progress or punishment, you're gonna have some "unintended consequences." And that is assuming the best of circumstances.[/b]
Ok, I have held back for a long time Ursus, reading your unsubstantiated, always outdated rubbish you throw up on these pages, your like looking at a "time warp of useless information" as to what is going on now, present time. Most of you here constantly regurgitate old info and try to correlate it to today. Never taking into consideration that the "new programs today", have learned from there outdated abusive ancestors. The programs that refuse to abandon the methodologies of the past are falling by the wayside, along with there abusive practices.
This whole concept that peer pressure is bad, Bla Bla Bla!!!!!, well get over it. Peer pressure is through out the entire working and social environment. For any of you who work for a living, try getting away from peer pressure. Try to skirt around being coerced by either your boss or fellow workers. Though it maybe subtle when it comes from workers, it is not by the boss. Your families practice a certain degree of coercion and punish you for unfulfilled chores/responsibilities.
Kids dealing with other kids, unless you were a only child and lived in a bubble, kids have been running a good deal of your adolescent life. If you played sports, boys scouts, any school drama, music, theater, debate team, political science teams, you would know about peer pressure and coercion, it is a part of adolescent life.
Most of these kids were talking about today have checked out of society, their suffering depression, there not going to school, some are taking drugs, acting out in a hostile manner.
Placing them in a setting where they will face peer pressure and coercion from other kids in a structured setting that is over seen by qualified staff is not a destructive measure.
Many kids need to be able to deal with these pressures to make it in society. Then begin to learn social skills, learn to stay engaged even when they feel like wanting to run away, learn that there self esteem does not need to be attached to how many kids like you or how they look at you, begin to believe that through hard work and working with others relationships are forged. They ascertain that they need people in order to discover knew ideas, they begin to trust there fellow workers/students.
WTNY said it well, he has no proof, he can not get inside and witness. What I have to ask myself, does anyone here have the credentials, schooling and practice to honor such a invitation. No company in there right mind would let just anybody wonder around their entity. You may ask, "well if they have nothing to hide", that is irresponsible and anyone with common sense knows this.
I suggest if you want into a certain program, go undercover, become a staff member. Find a way to get hired. It has been done before. Become a "whistle blower", take your case to the proper authorities.
Come on Ursus, DJ, Paul, None-Ya, Anne, Frodie, Buzz Kill, Che and the rest of you freedom fighters. Go get them, infiltrate. Put your ass where your mouth is.
I reckon that between all of you folks here, if you were to get hired on, could have at least 1/2 dozen programs shut down by this time next year. I say this because according to all you folks, every program out there is abusive.
So come on, get to work. I would surmise that in 3 maybe 4 years you folks should have all the major Corps. shut down and who knows how many independents.
Most of the "new programs today" use pretty much the exact same modalities that the old programs did, they're just a lil slicker in their application and certainly so ... as far as their marketing is concerned (oh, and let's not forget that there's always new lingo that can be layered in). Using the group to force conformity onto potentially errant individuals is nothing new, which I imagine you would know given how much a fan you are of TC modalities. And while one might think that personal suffering at the hands of abusers in that "therapeutic milieu" would make a person more sensitive to just how damaging that system can be, apparently not so, in your case.
Your full of crap. All this dramatic milieu does not make it true. Stop projecting your experience of 30 years ago on everyone else. Jeesh, ever heard of "latent tendencies", paranoia and pathologies, Ursus get some help.
Your simplistic interpretation of "peer pressure" and "coercion" would be laughable save that it appears you really believe it. It reminds of me of how GGI and PPC used to be described in the literature, giving corny examples of "the way it works," leaving out all evidence of just how easy it is to game that system ... if you are a pathologically-minded abusive manipulator of others, just the sort of person that is supposed to be most "helped" by such a system. Lol.
Well if laughing help you then laugh, please have a good ole belly breaker on me. Because I am sick and tired of hearing your rubbish. Your old, your ideas are old and you are the problem with this industry. Ursus I would take you seriously, I really would if you could just get out of your own "experiences".
Yes, Ursus, I do believe in what I am saying because I know it first hand to be true. Where as in your case you don't. You have not one iota of proof of anything your saying concerning new programs today. Nothing I have read shows where you have gotten off your butt and gone out on done some real investigating. The only time you know anything is if someone comes on here an posts or if a incident happens at a program and it is written about or a investigative journalist provides a article. Otherwise you know nothing.
Oh, you want to dazzle the crowd with your so called "sources", well everyone has folks who either still work in the TC community, works for a Gov't agency, Social services, Court employees, PO's, Lawyers, Journalists, Regulators for the Licensing of such programs ect.......As I said everyone has sources but most of us also do the grunt work.
From what I've read here, that you have posted, shows that you don't have many sources, you are what we call a "reactionary poster" you make your living feeding off of other anonymous, information.
Something unconditional or in most cases conditional happens and you react, almost like " Ivan Pavlov's Theory",
"The theory of Pavlov",
The dogs he used showed a salivation response when they where offered food (unconditional stimulus). The food was offered a number of time with the sound of a buzzer (conditional stimulus). After this, the sound of the buzzer alone could produce the salivation response".
Are the horns blowing Ursus, are you salivating. Just because your salivating Ursus, does not mean your hungry. Just because the article says a child was hurt does not mean it was abuse.
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My point being not to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs but merely to place it into perspective and to caution not give the false impression that programs are unsafe.
Oh, but your point *IS* to minimize any abuse that occurs in programs. The "impression" that PROGRAMS ARE UNSAFE is a true one!
Anytime you practice coercion as a form of behavior modification, not to mention put kids in control of other kids' progress or punishment, you're gonna have some "unintended consequences." And that is assuming the best of circumstances.[/b]
Ok, I have held back for a long time Ursus, reading your unsubstantiated, always outdated rubbish you throw up on these pages, your like looking at a "time warp of useless information" as to what is going on now, present time. Most of you here constantly regurgitate old info and try to correlate it to today. Never taking into consideration that the "new programs today", have learned from there outdated abusive ancestors. The programs that refuse to abandon the methodologies of the past are falling by the wayside, along with there abusive practices.
This whole concept that peer pressure is bad, Bla Bla Bla!!!!!, well get over it. Peer pressure is through out the entire working and social environment. For any of you who work for a living, try getting away from peer pressure. Try to skirt around being coerced by either your boss or fellow workers. Though it maybe subtle when it comes from workers, it is not by the boss. Your families practice a certain degree of coercion and punish you for unfulfilled chores/responsibilities.
Kids dealing with other kids, unless you were a only child and lived in a bubble, kids have been running a good deal of your adolescent life. If you played sports, boys scouts, any school drama, music, theater, debate team, political science teams, you would know about peer pressure and coercion, it is a part of adolescent life.
Most of these kids were talking about today have checked out of society, their suffering depression, there not going to school, some are taking drugs, acting out in a hostile manner.
Placing them in a setting where they will face peer pressure and coercion from other kids in a structured setting that is over seen by qualified staff is not a destructive measure.
Many kids need to be able to deal with these pressures to make it in society. Then begin to learn social skills, learn to stay engaged even when they feel like wanting to run away, learn that there self esteem does not need to be attached to how many kids like you or how they look at you, begin to believe that through hard work and working with others relationships are forged. They ascertain that they need people in order to discover knew ideas, they begin to trust there fellow workers/students.
WTNY said it well, he has no proof, he can not get inside and witness. What I have to ask myself, does anyone here have the credentials, schooling and practice to honor such a invitation. No company in there right mind would let just anybody wonder around their entity. You may ask, "well if they have nothing to hide", that is irresponsible and anyone with common sense knows this.
I suggest if you want into a certain program, go undercover, become a staff member. Find a way to get hired. It has been done before. Become a "whistle blower", take your case to the proper authorities.
Come on Ursus, DJ, Paul, None-Ya, Anne, Frodie, Buzz Kill, Che and the rest of you freedom fighters. Go get them, infiltrate. Put your ass where your mouth is.
I reckon that between all of you folks here, if you were to get hired on, could have at least 1/2 dozen programs shut down by this time next year. I say this because according to all you folks, every program out there is abusive.
So come on, get to work. I would surmise that in 3 maybe 4 years you folks should have all the major Corps. shut down and who knows how many independents.
Most of the "new programs today" use pretty much the exact same modalities that the old programs did, they're just a lil slicker in their application and certainly so ... as far as their marketing is concerned (oh, and let's not forget that there's always new lingo that can be layered in). Using the group to force conformity onto potentially errant individuals is nothing new, which I imagine you would know given how much a fan you are of TC modalities. And while one might think that personal suffering at the hands of abusers in that "therapeutic milieu" would make a person more sensitive to just how damaging that system can be, apparently not so, in your case.
Your full of crap. All this dramatic milieu does not make it true. Stop projecting your experience of 30 years ago on everyone else. Jeesh, ever heard of "latent tendencies", paranoia and pathologies, Ursus get some help.
Your simplistic interpretation of "peer pressure" and "coercion" would be laughable save that it appears you really believe it. It reminds of me of how GGI and PPC used to be described in the literature, giving corny examples of "the way it works," leaving out all evidence of just how easy it is to game that system ... if you are a pathologically-minded abusive manipulator of others, just the sort of person that is supposed to be most "helped" by such a system. Lol.
Well if laughing help you then laugh, please have a good ole belly breaker on me. Because I am sick and tired of hearing your rubbish. Your old, your ideas are old and you are the problem with this industry. Ursus I would take you seriously, I really would if you could just get out of your own "experiences".
Yes, Ursus, I do believe in what I am saying because I know it first hand to be true. Where as in your case you don't. You have not one iota of proof of anything your saying concerning new programs today. Nothing I have read shows where you have gotten off your butt and gone out on done some real investigating. The only time you know anything is if someone comes on here an posts or if a incident happens at a program and it is written about or a investigative journalist provides a article. Otherwise you know nothing.
Oh, you want to dazzle the crowd with your so called "sources", well everyone has folks who either still work in the TC community, works for a Gov't agency, Social services, Court employees, PO's, Lawyers, Journalists, Regulators for the Licensing of such programs ect.......As I said everyone has sources but most of us also do the grunt work.
From what I've read here, that you have posted, shows that you don't have many sources, you are what we call a "reactionary poster" you make your living feeding off of other anonymous, information.
Something unconditional or in most cases conditional happens and you react, almost like " Ivan Pavlov's Theory",
"The theory of Pavlov",
The dogs he used showed a salivation response when they where offered food (unconditional stimulus). The food was offered a number of time with the sound of a buzzer (conditional stimulus). After this, the sound of the buzzer alone could produce the salivation response".
Are the horns blowing Ursus, are you salivating. Just because your salivating Ursus, does not mean your hungry. Just because the article says a child was hurt does not mean it was abuse.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Keep wasting your time, Danny. Ya have not even a clue.
Speaking of Pavlovian reactionaries, however, I've noticed that you spend considerable time and effort on posting some rather wretched rants in response to several posters here, whether or not you even understand what folks are talking about. One could well ask: do you salivate at opportunities to indiscriminately trash others?
:seg:
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Ursus wrote:
Keep wasting your time, Danny. Ya have not even a clue.
Speaking of Pavlovian reactionaries, however, I've noticed that you spend considerable time and effort on posting some rather wretched rants in response to several posters here, whether or not you even understand what folks are talking about. One could well ask: do you salivate at opportunities to indiscriminately trash others?
Ursie, I love it when you call me stupid. Thank you. I've had your number, baby, since the year you got here.
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Ursus wrote:
Keep wasting your time, Danny. Ya have not even a clue.
Speaking of Pavlovian reactionaries, however, I've noticed that you spend considerable time and effort on posting some rather wretched rants in response to several posters here, whether or not you even understand what folks are talking about. One could well ask: do you salivate at opportunities to indiscriminately trash others?
Ursie, I love it when you call me stupid. Thank you. I've had your number, baby, since the year you got here.
Ah... but I didn't call you "stupid," Danny, nor was I thinking along those lines. There are many reasons for not being able to understand something ... that have nothing to do with native intelligence. You must have someone else's number in your Rolodex. ;D
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New hope website:
http://www.newhopetreatment.com/home.htm (http://www.newhopetreatment.com/home.htm)
Do you think the staff restrained him for complaining about chest pain?
This is a "so-called" psychiatric treatment center but..... read who they won't accept:
New Hope is generally able to admit and treat adolescents whose behaviors are such that they do not require excessive restraint or seclusion for their assaultive or destructive behaviors. Although in some cases we do accept and treat youth with histories of documented physical aggression, we cannot serve extremely aggressive residents who are likely to put other residents or staff at risk or who regularly disrupt the treatment of others.
Adolescents who are actively psychotic or have an Axis II personality disorder, autism, or pervasive developmental disorders are generally not appropriate for our programs.
http://www.newhopetreatment.com/admissions/criteria.htm (http://www.newhopetreatment.com/admissions/criteria.htm)
Such a very amazing link!
Thanks you for the post.
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