Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Aspen Ranch Victim on June 21, 2010, 09:53:53 PM
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What happened to ISACorp?
When is it coming back?
Is it?
Can we donate to help?
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What happened to ISACorp?
When is it coming back?
Is it?
Can we donate to help?
What are we talking about here......
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According to Joan, who wrote with one of them, the person holding the website have issues to deal with during these times where the economy has more focus than normal. I know that we have offered to help - even host it in Denmark until things get better, but we have not gotten any answer yet.
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The band Kansas said it best:
Dust in the Wind
I close my eyes
Only for a moment, then the momen't gone
All my dreams
Pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind Same old song
Just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do
Crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind, ohh Now, don't hang on
Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away
And all your money won't another minute buy
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind Dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
The wind
ISAC Corporation 3/18/2003-12/31/09 :peace:
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Pretty please?
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Tiz just awful to go searching for some info you need and have Google direct you to CaCa over and over - just awful -
I hang my head and cry.
Not really - but I feel like it some times.
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It's a shame that ISAC Corporation has gone away. The huge resource helped a lot of people.
Can ISAC Corporation someday make a comeback. We can only hope.
And hopefully I will be here to aggravate them :ftard:
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Well Tony, at least now I don't have to bait all them mousetraps anymore, :roflmao:
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:heartbreak: :cry:
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Guess what, http://isaccorp.org/ (http://isaccorp.org/) :notworthy:
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Guess what, http://isaccorp.org/ (http://isaccorp.org/) :notworthy:
:jamin: :notworthy: :rocker: :notworthy: :rocker: :notworthy: :jamin:
THANK YOU to all responsible parties!!!
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Absolutely Great!
The site is a lot different but I am assuming the links will make a comeback too. Rock on ISAC!
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Guess what, http://isaccorp.org/ (http://isaccorp.org/) :notworthy:
:jamin: :notworthy: :rocker: :notworthy: :rocker: :notworthy: :jamin:
THANK YOU to all responsible parties!!!
Ditto.
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:notworthy: :cheers: :rocker: :tup:
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Awesome :) a lot of the content is not there yet, but it'll probably get there later.
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tha :notworthy: nk you
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:timeout: :timeout: :timeout: :timeout: :timeout:
As the former registered agent of ISAC Corporation, I am mortified that someone actually bought the isaccorp.org domain and put up that outdated and copyrighted website online, as if ISAC was still open for business. This is a very serious mistake on behalf of the responsible party. I strongly suggest that this OLD rendition of isaccorp.org be taken offline within the next 24 hours.
Thank you.
William Earnshaw, Sr.
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Interesting:
WHOIS Results for isaccorp.org (http://http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/isaccorp.org)
Domain ID:D104496808-LROR
Domain Name:ISACCORP.ORG
Created On:04-Jun-2004 21:55:48 UTC
Last Updated On:16-Jul-2010 23:43:17 UTC
Expiration Date:04-Jun-2011 21:55:48 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)
Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:CR52132017
Registrant Name:ANDREY AHIEZER
Registrant Street1:Kolontaevskaya 8
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Odessa
Registrant State/Province:Odes'ka
Registrant Postal Code:65091
Registrant Country:UA
Registrant Phone:+380.048375306
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:[email protected]
Admin ID:CR52132020
Admin Name:ANDREY AHIEZER
Admin Street1:Kolontaevskaya 8
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Odessa
Admin State/Province:Odes'ka
Admin Postal Code:65091
Admin Country:UA
Admin Phone:+380.048375306
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:[email protected]
Tech ID:CR52132018
Tech Name:ANDREY AHIEZER
Tech Street1:Kolontaevskaya 8
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Odessa
Tech State/Province:Odes'ka
Tech Postal Code:65091
Tech Country:UA
Tech Phone:+380.048375306
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:[email protected]
Name Server:NS37.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server:NS38.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned
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Russian?
Somebody was posting in russian and using russian references a while back on Fornits. Find out who they are and maybe find out who registered the ISAC domain.
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:timeout: :timeout: :timeout: :timeout: :timeout:
As the former registered agent of ISAC Corporation, I am mortified that someone actually bought the isaccorp.org domain and put up that outdated and copyrighted website online, as if ISAC was still open for business. This is a very serious mistake on behalf of the responsible party. I strongly suggest that this OLD rendition of isaccorp.org be taken offline within the next 24 hours.
Thank you.
William Earnshaw, Sr.
My comment was meant to be a joke but I think my timing was off a little. Sorry guys.
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Sickening. Just sickening.
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I guess that is one way to make sure ISAC stays off line.
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Now it says "temporarily Unavailable" when I go to isaccorp.org.............awwww shucks.
But you can still buy an ISAC golf shirt here for 20 bucks:
http://www.cafepress.com/+golf_shirt,17314210 (http://www.cafepress.com/+golf_shirt,17314210)
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Odessa is in Ukraina, not Russia.
Of all the various factions that want ISAC offline (programs/ ed cons/etc.), which ones have any contact to Ukraina?... (and why?...)
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I'm fairly sure the Russian that took it over was an opportunistic spam house, not a programmie.
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Odessa is in Ukraina, not Russia.
Of all the various factions that want ISAC offline (programs/ ed cons/etc.), which ones have any contact to Ukraina?... (and why?...)
I think you mis-understand. It's ISAC that wants the http://www.ISACcorp.org (http://www.ISACcorp.org) site off-line. Your correct that those who have desperately wanted the ISAC site down are various abusive programs and unethical ed cons. That "ISAC" themselves, for their own reasons, now feel the same way about the site is just - well I don't know - what would you call it?. Ironic?
Bill - I don't know how this situation (the domain name purchase and all) has come about, but I don't know that there is anything that can be done at this point, as far as the domain name goes. I recall when Lee Colburn allowed the Intrepid Net Reporter domain name and site to lapse, WWASP swooped in and bought it and overnight had it back up as a Program support site full of glowing testimony about how wonderful WWASP was/is. It looks as if whom ever made the purchase had no idea you would mind, as they now have it down at your request; for this you should be thankful and count what ever lucky stars you have it wasn't Robert or Willa or Sue who bought the ISAC domain name.
*sigh*
Well, I suppose it is as you said once on facebook, basically "be thankful you had it for awhile".
My response (as is often the case when feeling morose) is to have snippets of poetry running through my head. . .
. . .we have lived enough to know
That what we never have, remains;
It is the things we have that go.
Sara Teasdale
Might as well ad:
. . .'Tis not love's going hurt my days,
But that it went in little ways.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Karen, Nobody here seems to know who is behind the latest attempt at reincarnating the ISAC website. We'll just wait and see if it comes back up... Wonders never cease in this line of work. Heads up meantime, even if we had put something back up, it would never have looked like that totally outdated page. Come on now... :roflmao: Irony is a bitch sometimes.
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I don't know what was out dated about the page Bill. It looked like ISAC's most current home page to me. I assumed, as did others, that the site was coming back up and the missing material would be forth coming. Your post was there-fore a truly unpleasant surprise; not unlike a sucker punch to the face.
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Bill: I hope you don't mind but I'm more comfortable continuing the Face-Book conversation over here. I know a lot of people on facebook know nothing about all this, but here there is no mystery. I hope this might save you (and me) lots of questions from the clueless.
Bill Earnshaw
I'm just as sad as everyone else. To make it easier to process, there are WAY more positive results than negative, people still talk about it, groups, websites, etc... were molded around it, people try to imitate it, lawyers reap $$$ from it, I mean come on now, don't fret... Maybe the heydays of hard line exposure are gone for now but who knows, maybe someone will come to bat one day and this will all be water under the bridge!
Me: I just don't see it this way. My POV is so opposit yours I find yours incomprehensible. I assume "it" is the web site. Yes, people are talking about it, but there's nothing much positive being said. Yes there have been attempts to copy it - but there is nothing else like it. Lawyers reep dollars from it? I really do not get this. Seems to me at least one lawyer has spent tons of dollars (as time is money) protecting it and you. Maybe you mean the lawyers billing the Bundys for trying to get your hard-drives? As to someone one day - well maybe so. There are a lot of super smart and tenacious people in the world that one program or another has chewed up. Honestly tho - this is of little comfort. Its a little like loosing a valuable gem-stone and being told don't fret - theres lots of rocks in the earth. Water under the bridge. . . Well Bill, seems more like time, effort and money down the drain to me. I am amazed you and Shelby don't feel the same way. Thats what I just don't understand.
Bill Earnshaw: losing friends is never easy, but were they ever really friends? I suppose it depends on how foolish prone we are...
Me: This is hard and it does hurt. I can empathize. Food for thought tho - When a friend is repeatedly given the impression they have been deemed disposable; or worse, like shit that needs scraping off your shoe - they will tend to move on. They'd be insufferably foolish not to.
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Nobody's asking me any questions on FB. They probably don't give a damn about this. LOL. A sucker punch? LOL... yeah, like when I see a former ISAC confidant plugging pro-program agenda? OK, yeah, I got it... If you can't beat em, join em, right? BTW, hey former FB friend, you better burn that hat!!! :flame: You know, WHO INCORPORATED an ISAC CORP IN THEIR STATE? WHO????? HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! NOBODY?????????? That's what I thought. All this other stuff is just nonsense at this point, you know, a waste of time and energy. :suicide:
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Nobody's asking me any questions on FB. They probably don't give a damn about this. LOL. A sucker punch? LOL... yeah, like when I see a former ISAC confidant plugging pro-program agenda? OK, yeah, I got it... If you can't beat em, join em, right? BTW, hey former FB friend, you better burn that hat!!! :flame: You know, WHO INCORPORATED an ISAC CORP IN THEIR STATE? WHO????? HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! NOBODY?????????? That's what I thought. All this other stuff is just nonsense at this point, you know, a waste of time and energy. :suicide:
Former ISAC confidant plugging a pro-program agenda?
Are you referring to HR 911? I know you oppose it but there is no way you can frame it as pro-program, as the programs oppose it with nearly as much energy as you. I can't think they'd be so energetically opposing something that would be in their favor. I realize you don't think it will cure the problem; but they don't seem to think it's going to help business. But if this isn't what your talking about, I can't imagine what is.
As to this ^ being comparable to the sucker punch of learning it wasn't you guys resurrecting the web site, and that you where instead demanding it down - I hardly know how to respond. My support of that bill has never been a secrete. I've debated it several times with a number of people - you and Shelby included. You can't possibly have been unaware I support that bill.
About the Hat/Hats. I'd be grateful if you wouldn't tell people to burn them. I spent a good bit having them made and getting them mailed. I was happy to do it, even if I did have to put up with some spousal grumbling. I would be upset for them to be burnt. Please just send them back if you don't want them.
They probably don't give a damn about this. LOL.
Probably not.
You know, WHO INCORPORATED an ISAC CORP IN THEIR STATE? WHO????? HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! NOBODY??????????
I have no idea -
All this other stuff is just nonsense at this point, you know, a waste of time and energy.
I think I disagree, but I can't be sure.
One thing I am sure of - this is so sad and frustrating I can hardly stand it.
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Whatever is going on, it is irresponsible for isac to simply let their site dissapear from the net.
Other advocacy groups could/would easility archive the site. Or, isac/advocates, in conjunction, could make efforts to archive the domain and site so it remains independant from other groups. Or, isac could send their info to other groups to record without archiving their site exactly.
Since isac is not interested in protecting teens, or making the effort to allow the material they housed to empower teens, perhaps it is time for someone who knows how to internet to record the material they housed, independant of thier assistance...Anyone...? isac material still has to be available via cache or wayback..yeah?(Hint, hint).
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ARV and everyone else... be responsible when using wayback or other cache related wells as outdated, copyrighted and legally liable information abounds.
:cheers:
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Ugggh.. days like this make me glad I buried the YLF deep into a hole out in the back 40. Not that I'd ever compare a shitbird org like the YLF to something as useful as ISAC, but the feelings of watching something useful be consumed by drama are there.
Sad.
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I just have to say that we at Spft are sorry that ISAC is gone. The world needs a database over programs and the website was a good foundation. On the wiki we used the website as source and the disappearance meant that we have a lot of datasheets in need of an update.
Regarding outdated information we feel that it is a problem that a lot of websites are removed over time. The newspapers come and go. They are not that good to maintain an archive everyone can access online. It doesn't matter if information is outdated. It can still be online but of course aided with information explaining that it is historical information. There are staff out there who based on their own naive opinion believed that they did something good and took responsibility once they discovered that they were wrong and changed their way. It doesn't change the fact that something took place but we all learn from our mistakes and if the mistakes are not accessible online how will new staff entering the business young and naive be prevented from making more mistakes and possible add entries to the victim lists.
People are quick to criticize the wiki database because of our choice of language but because no one else seems to be willing to create an alternative people have to settle with that. ISAC had such an alternative and we would like to see a replacement.
We also believe that some of the people here should create websites outside Fornits. Important sites have been gone. Beside ISAC we are talking antiwwasp and TBfight. Historically there have been some tensions between the various sites but still they provided useful information.
Our information is not intended to be copyrighted. People are welcome to pick whatever they find useful on the website of Spft and use it on their own website. If they want to create a website fighting a fraction of the industry then it is good. We don't care.
As for the HR911 it is a start. It is like trafic safety. Here in Denmark they first demanded that new cars had seatbelts on the front seat. Then it became mandatory for old cars to have them installed too. In the 1980's at least two seat in the back had to have them installed and 5 years ago every passenger had to wear a seatbelt. Banning corporal punishment of children in Denmark started with a ban in public school, then in private schools also and finally a total ban. It has really moved the thinking among parents and no sane parent would hit their child today. So the HR911 will be a start regardless of the fact that it miss a lot. Once the industry are in the soft restraints, it is easier to change to leather and later to steel.
We would like that homepage of ISAC to be put with a notice that the information is historical because the activities stopped at a certain day. If it was a question of paying to host it, we would find a solution where it was hosted outside the United States. However we will never move to make it happened without the approval of the original owners.
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I agree with Oscar and I think a lot of others agree with him also.
Although it might not matter now depending upon who now owns the domain.
Why all the silence about why the site was taken down altogether? I mean, you're still here posting on Fornits RG, why can't someone else run the ISAC site? Were you sued? Were you afraid of being sued? Did a program pay you to take the site down? Is your proprietary information (much sent to you from outside parties) too valuable to allow someone else to get their hands on and more important than informing people of the dangers and truths of the TTI?
Are you angry that the site didn't bring in the dough you had expected, isn't exposing programs a priority?
I am sorry for assuming, but I just don't get it, something doesn't jive, doesn't add up.
If you couldn't afford it, someone else could have taken over and funded it. Did you try that?
RG, you can post unimportant shit on here, how about posting some truth about this, I think we can handle it.
I am sorry if I am missing something big here, but without any answers, there is a lot to be missed.
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When talk of taking ISAC off line first began, I made all the same suggestions Oscar has made. I still feel that archiving the site is probably the best answer.
I'm not sure what Bill is talking about when he says the material is copyrighted; or maybe he means the name of the organization: International Survivors Action Committee is copyrighted. I think maybe this name is part of the problem. When the Trekker support was pulled, after the hostility began with Sue Scheff, that meant the cash flow stopped, which caused a halt to anything like Action in the way it was originally planned. But for years after this, a lot of important work was done and information was gathered and cataloged and made available to the public. So, action was still going on - just not of the sort originally planned.
As I understand the situation - basically - things have changed in the "ISAC" household that have made it difficult to find the time to work on the site or deal with the issues involved. Consequently, there was no time for any kind of action. As best as I can understand, this is why there is an objection to archiving the site - even with a banner posted explaining it is an historical site and not being updated.
As to the question of allowing someone else to take over, as I understand it (and I do have some sympathy for this POV) the site was not unlike a work of art, in that it was a creation the owners had personal pride in; A creation their reputation was built upon. To allow someone else to take it on would be similar to, lets say, Picasso allowing me to touch up his work. Because I do understand such feelings I have argued for the archived site.
My feelings are mirrored by Oscar's. Keep the information up. As others come along and build new sites they can use it as an invaluable research tool and add what new information there is to the new site. There is a lot of information on ISAC that is now no where else - and the thought of all those dead links all over many other fine and worthwhile sites is just not a laughing matter.
Maybe even dissolve ISAC and rename the site something more suitable, tho I suppose that might mean a lot of work removing the ISAC water mark from a lot of documents, and that would take time that just isn't available. Anyway, I lost the argument. I've know from the day it went off line it wasn't coming back. I had been clearly told so. I did hope however that minds might change. That now seems much less likely.
For those with links to ISAC pages, I can only suggest you remove them. Look for what information they linked to elsewhere. This may mean you'll have to resort to using CACA or some other less reputable site - but at least some of this information is still on line somewhere. Jordan Riak has a great many newspaper articles on the topic of abuse in programs. http://www.nospank.net/ (http://www.nospank.net/) ; http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm (http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm) ; http://www.nospank.net/victims.htm (http://www.nospank.net/victims.htm)
With regard to WWASP - I have some documents saved anyone can have the use of at request.
Oscar: you and I have never had much interaction but I'll take this opportunity to say I appreciate what your doing.
*sigh*
Now, I am going to wade into dangerous waters here. I have always kept my thoughts to myself on this issue, because I felt it was none of my business - or at least I felt sure and certain those concerned would feel strongly this is so.
I want to have a word with the Straight type program survivors. I know I can't possibly understand what you all shared. I know I am a member of the enemy camp. I hope most of you realize that I regret this and wish it were otherwise - and that I have done what I can to show it. I hope you realize I have friendly feelings for you, even if you feel something quit the opposite for me. Anyway - here are my thoughts: you guys are your own worst enemy. You rip and tear at each others best efforts, which no doubt causes a lot of pain and confusion and disappointment and anger - which errods those efforts to the point they become far less effective or vanish all together.
All the carping, harping, baiting and back-biting has [IMO] played a part in the decision to yank the ISAC site. I was never told so. This is just my opinion based on what I have seen and heard going on in the survivor community.
People get tired. They get discouraged. This is the kind of effort that wears on a person even when they have a lot of validation and support. I think maybe the various tensions in the survivor community got to be to much - making it all seem just so not worth it. I'm not absolving Bill and Shelby of equal responsibility here. Being survivors of the same program, it is to be expected they have the same tendencies and inclinations to judge others efforts harshly.
You all seem to know this. You seem to have a good deal of self awareness about this tendency you share and an understanding of why. This ought to help you gain more control of your impulse to tear each other down. I'm asking you to try harder for your own sakes to pause and reflect before hitting the key-board or telephone or someone else's best effort.
Now if it will help you feel better, pile on and tell me what I can go do with myself - I don't mind. Just also think about what I am saying.
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Tony says... "Is your proprietary information (much sent to you from outside parties) too valuable to allow someone else to get their hands on and more important than informing people of the dangers and truths of the TTI?"
MOST of the information deemed proprietary at ISAC was paid for through money spent making trips to programs across the country and to foreign countries, paying for administrative costs incurred by FOIA requests, and the like... You really sound stupid and condescending now.
I agree as well, with some of what Oscar says however, I believe that when a business closes, its CLOSED. The website was an extension of the corporation. Do your math Tony... real life, even 501c3, corporations cost money. Without sufficient amounts of money, corporations dissolve. It was kept alive for a couple years on fumes from oxidizing pennies. Be grateful for how long it lasted. I believe that if someone wants to use information from an archived page, they should get permission to do so. At the very least, the site should not be called isaccorp.org, unless you incorporate and call yourself isaccorp.org. Think of what ISAC did as a picture in time... a stepping stone to the future of exposing the teen help industry, a foundation like Oscar says, a lesson, and a wake up call. With very few exceptions, ISAC was always in the crosshairs of sue happy program owners, registered agents and lawyers. Surely there's at least ONE person out there who could make a similar effort. Ya'll can talk and 2nd guess till you turn blue in the face but it aint gonna bring back ISAC.
Bring in the dough? WDTONY thinks that ISAC was out there to bring in dough? Man, well, let me clarify that the best I can. :twofinger:
WDTONY says: "I am sorry for assuming, but I just don't get it, something doesn't jive, doesn't add up.
If you couldn't afford it, someone else could have taken over and funded it. Did you try that?
RG, you can post unimportant shit on here, how about posting some truth about this, I think we can handle it.
I am sorry if I am missing something big here, but without any answers, there is a lot to be missed."
The unimportant shit I post here is damn sure important to me. So much so that I deem it necessary to post it in this UNIMPORTANT venue! :roflmao:
You know WDTONY, if I had thought you could handle ISAC, Id've flown to KY and handed you the keys but I didn't so I didn't. Other folks didn't have the $$ to incorporate, and if you think really hard and long about it, nobody could replace Shelby. The fact of the matter is that ISAC is done. ::deadhorse::
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BUZZKILL SAYS: "As to the question of allowing someone else to take over, as I understand it (and I do have some sympathy for this POV) the site was not unlike a work of art, in that it was a creation the owners had personal pride in; A creation their reputation was built upon. To allow someone else to take it on would be similar to, lets say, Picasso allowing me to touch up his work. Because I do understand such feelings I have argued for the archived site."
Now, this is probably the best thing I've heard you say in a long time... :cheers:
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Bill, you write: Without sufficient amounts of money, corporations dissolve. It was kept alive for a couple years on fumes from oxidizing pennies.
I don't know how many times I told you guys if you need help with ISAC just say so, but it was frequent - and I know others felt and expressed the same. I know people did in fact help fund the operation of the site far beyond a few oxidizing pennies. My understanding is there was enough provided by DP as a result of her birthday campaign last year to keep the site on line for a long time to come. I understand there wasn't the funding to make cross country trips to dig through program garbage - but you had people willing to dig around the net all over the world.
I drove for 2 hours and spent another two or three digging through public records for you; and hours more scanning and burning onto cds documents you obtained from public officials and police departments. I wrote stuff up and encouraged countless kids to write accounts up, trusting their effort and mine would be a resource for informing the public. When I had spare cash I made that available too. Rightly or wrongly, I can't help but feel I have a stake in what happens to all that information.
I have been puzzled by your comments concerning money. The suggestion you made that if someone wanted to start up an ISAC clone they'd need 100,000.00 in the bank. . .the complaints no money was coming in. . . that the parents didn't pony up amounts equal to program tuition. . .
Did you ever imagine that any of this was likely? I understand why you'd be offended by the suggestion this whole effort was about money - but can't you understand comments like this make people wonder? I personally never got that impression and don't believe it now - but I do get why some might think so as a consequence of your comments.
You seem open to the idea of an archive - others offer to fund it - wouldn't cost you another dime or much time - why not work something out along those lines?
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You have a wealth of useful information, and you intentionally made it proprietary to a corporation that no longer exists?
Instead of, say, openly posting it on a website that can be hosted for ten bucks a month, and using the domain name to leave it open to the public?
Which do you think would be more beneficial in the long run?
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Well, RG, I do appreciate your presenting your point of view about it. I don't quite understand everything that has happened but it is good to have some answers.
If you don't understand that it is possible to revere/respect what someone has done while still disagreeing with them on many points, then you will never understand a person like me.
I would never request that someone ask permission to use anything I had worked to put online for the purposes of fighting programs. I want it to be as available as possible.
And Buzz is right, we do tear each other down.... with a lot of help from a few trolls who like to instigate. I am unsure if there is any solution to this. But, many are still here and a lot is happening against the TTI. Despite the in-fighting here, exposing programs for what they truly are is happening at an accelerated rate.
I agree with the ISACcorp archive idea set forth by previous posters.
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The costly part is to move around and get records in person. At Spft we have a policy about personal meetings (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/about_us.htm) for two reasons:
1) We can be targeted with lawsuits if we enter the country a specific program is located in.
2) The risk of being accused of taking avantage of a minor exist.
It puts some limits on our work. We will never be able to have exclusive records - not on our own site. A number of suck-puppet accounts exist which can host documents so a court order will close the suckpuppets accounts only and we advice people to write their blogs about their experiences instead.
But it does mean that running Spft is cheap. We are talking around 40 dollars per year. (1 Gb dataspace, SQL/php support, unlimited traffic). 2 of our volunteers have shadow account with duplicated contents they maintain for their own money. You can access the copies by use of IP-number only. They also have a written permission to move the domain name in a envelope if something should happen for Covergaard (Unfortunately necessary, but that's another story). I guess that they pay 30 dollars just to be ready.
As I see it we have to accept that ISAC is closed and respect the reasons the organization gave.
We have to move on from here and one way is to get starting on new webpages with information on what people find important. The target information for each site can be focusing on a smaller area inside the behavior modification industry and then we could use the wiki as a datacenter. It could be a way to fill all the gaps. What do you say?
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The costly part is to move around and get records in person. At Spft we have a policy about personal meetings (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/about_us.htm) for two reasons:
1) We can be targeted with lawsuits if we enter the country a specific program is located in.
2) The risk of being accused of taking avantage of a minor exist.
It puts some limits on our work. We will never be able to have exclusive records - not on our own site. A number of suck-puppet accounts exist which can host documents so a court order will close the suckpuppets accounts only and we advice people to write their blogs about their experiences instead.
But it does mean that running Spft is cheap. We are talking around 40 dollars per year. (1 Gb dataspace, SQL/php support, unlimited traffic). 2 of our volunteers have shadow account with duplicated contents they maintain for their own money. You can access the copies by use of IP-number only. They also have a written permission to move the domain name in a envelope if something should happen for Covergaard (Unfortunately necessary, but that's another story). I guess that they pay 30 dollars just to be ready.
As I see it we have to accept that ISAC is closed and respect the reasons the organization gave.
We have to move on from here and one way is to get starting on new webpages with information on what people find important. The target information for each site can be focusing on a smaller area inside the behavior modification industry and then we could use the wiki as a datacenter. It could be a way to fill all the gaps. What do you say?
Sounds like a good plan. I think it is a good idea to keep a few hubs for information and then have a lot spread around on the net also. Blogs would be good for personal statements which could be linked to hub sites.
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OK Karen, for starters, ISAC was built and set up as a non-profit organization, not a website. The website was an extension of the corporation. Please put that into perspective at this time. One compliments the other. Without the corporation, there is no site. If someone wants to use the info, they'll have to have a place set up for it and we will have to spend the time it takes getting everything sorted out, transferred, etc... It's already almost August...
A bio of sorts:
The corporation always needed funds to effectively carry out its mission statement. Early on, sufficient funds were being made available by people who had kids in programs who wanted them out and needed evidence, etc... even personal witnesses and all sorts of things. Trips were taken, conferences sponsored, reports needed to be written, published, copied, distributed, thousands of dollars were spent in this regard. A whole new era was born. ISAC was the horses mouth. The ball was rolling like a tank through soda cans. People took notice, programs threatened legal actions trying to thwart the onslaught of the truth... others caved, programs changed names, sites, owners quit, kids were streaming out of programs, the media started covering the issues etc. Others, mainly survivors and at least one self proclaimed advocate, started sites of their own wanting to link to ISAC. They didn't want to join ISAC, they just wanted their sites linked and use of all of the information. We even created the REFERRAL FREE ZONE for folks in exposure land. Slowly but surely, instead of folks referring to ISAC anymore they did their own thing. Then, lo and behold, SUE SCHEFF got put on the watch list along with IZZY and before you knew it, the budget disappeared. Sure, you can fling out $200 here, $10 there but how can someone spend 40 or 60 hours a week doing investigations and reports, plus pay for all the necessary things needed? Oxidizing pennies, that's how, LOL... Seriously though, the LEAST amount of money it would take to run an org like ISAC halfway effectively for a year would be no less than $15,000. It doesn't matter if you think otherwise, it's not a matter of what you think, it's how much it would cost. Nobody here or anywhere else that I know of was willing to donate anywhere near that kind of money. In fact, back in 2005, a wealthy survivor actually said they'd donate $10,000 to help with being sued by ROBERT LICHFIELD, owner of WWASP, but then they recanted stating they were afraid they'd get dragged into the lawsuit. You know, that was never going to happen since Phil was on the scene, but whatever... Well, easy come easy go, right? Not only that, but I'd be willing to bet that if half of the folks who claimed they were writing grants for ISAC actually got them, we'd still be open. Nobody got a grant, btw... OK, so enough about that for now.
I apologize for the $100,000 comment on FB, but it's the truth. Just think of the possibilities.
PDK, I have no idea what you're gettin at but let's hope you aren't worried too much. The info is safe and sound for now, OK? ;) Looks like Oscar is on the right track.
oscar @info.com ???
Remember when Lichfield got stifled in MO? That was classic!!
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OK Karen, for starters, ISAC was built and set up as a non-profit organization, not a website. The website was an extension of the corporation. Please put that into perspective at this time. One compliments the other. Without the corporation, there is no site. If someone wants to use the info, they'll have to have a place set up for it and we will have to spend the time it takes getting everything sorted out, transferred, etc... It's already almost August...
I know how ISAC was began Bill. I remember the history. I also know about the impressive budget in the early days, where it came from and what was accomplished with it. I know why it dried up. I know that since then, the Action part of the corp had to be drastically scaled back. I am perfectly aware that 200 here and 100 there and 20 or 10 now and again can not begin to replace what was originally available. I am also sensible of the fact that Shelby needs to be paid for her time. I understand this and would never suggest otherwise. I realize that unfortunately, getting paid for her time means working at something besides ISAC b/c ISAC just doesn't pay. I'm also aware that various dynamics shift and change adding extra pressure on time and resources. I understand. I really do.
I also get that being as ISAC was set up to be an Action group, maintaining an in-active web site strikes you guys as a no go situation. This is the part I have trouble understanding. I view this as being needlessly rigid. If there is some insurmountable reason why the web site has to go off-line b/c ISAC is no longer an active 501-C3, I am unaware of it.
It seems to me this is mostly about wanting perfection and not being able to settle for what can actually be instead - and so having nothing. In my view, what you had was an invaluable resource and an achievement to be seriously proud of, even if you never touched it for up-dating again. I find it baffling - bizarre even - that you could want all that work just gone. I'll never understand this Bill, no matter how you or Shelby try to explain it. This I just don't understand.
Still, it is up to you guys.You were ISAC - and the web site was the product you produced - so it is yours. I respect this fact more than you might imagine.
If I have been a nuisance with my BMW like behavior, all I can do is ask you to try and understand its the result of the great value I place on what you had accomplished and my grif that it is gone. I am trying to get back into the mind set of accepting it is no more and I won't be bothering you about it any further.
Clearly I need to get myself a life of some sort so this shit doesn't bother me so bad. I'll work on that.
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The following is just an opinion from an outsider. I have no knowledge of how ISAC got started, what their business plan was or how they were financed.
I think that it is possible it may be a sign of the times. There would be no argument from anyone that the world slowly evolves and life gets better. Your work may be done. ISAC was able to accomplish shinning a huge spotlight onto the industry and it has responded. Many of the abusive programs have closed. The ones that stayed open have improved…there was a federal investigation into the industry which opened people’s eyes to the abuse that has and can occur within the confines of the industry……on the flip side studies have immerged showing that kids are responding to their stay there and doing well.
ISAC has educated many people on the abuse the industry can deal out and the industry has watched what was being said. Like any industry they are going to respond to the customer’s feedback. If we have learned anything from history we know that if you hold people’s feet to the fire long enough then you will get a response that you want and that is, in part, what ISAC did.
If you look at the number of programs that are in existence now vs 20 years ago and what the government investigation found I think we can conclude that the industry has reached a point where it is thriving and is an integral and useful part of society. Like any industry it has its group of people who feel it has a negative affect and they will always be a part of its challenge and is necessary to keep them honest.
So don’t feel bad that ISAC is no more, rather reflect on what it has accomplished and celebrate that it has made a huge difference in how kids are treated in programs around the country.
As an aside: The huge database of responses, accounts and information that Isac amassed over the years is surely in the hands of the owners of the website and could not possibly be lost (unless it was erased intentionally) and could be piggy backed onto another site like fornits or maintained and linked to a new site for very short money.
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The following is just an opinion from an outsider. I have no knowledge of how ISAC got started, what their business plan was or how they were financed.
I think that it is possible it may be a sign of the times. There would be no argument from anyone that the world slowly evolves and life gets better. Your work may be done. ISAC was able to accomplish shinning a huge spotlight onto the industry and it has responded. Many of the abusive programs have closed. The ones that stayed open have improved…there was a federal investigation into the industry which opened people’s eyes to the abuse that has and can occur within the confines of the industry……on the flip side studies have immerged showing that kids are responding to their stay there and doing well.
ISAC has educated many people on the abuse the industry can deal out and the industry has watched what was being said. Like any industry they are going to respond to the customer’s feedback. If we have learned anything from history we know that if you hold people’s feet to the fire long enough then you will get a response that you want and that is, in part, what ISAC did.
If you look at the number of programs that are in existence now vs 20 years ago and what the government investigation found I think we can conclude that the industry has reached a point where it is thriving and is an integral and useful part of society. Like any industry it has its group of people who feel it has a negative affect and they will always be a part of its challenge and is necessary to keep them honest.
So don’t feel bad that ISAC is no more, rather reflect on what it has accomplished and celebrate that it has made a huge difference in how kids are treated in programs around the country.
As an aside: The huge database of responses, accounts and information that Isac amassed over the years is surely in the hands of the owners of the website and could not possibly be lost (unless it was erased intentionally) and could be piggy backed onto another site like fornits or maintained and linked to a new site for very short money.
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Thanks Whooter. It does not take a lot of money to accomplish this, I would be willing to finance a "piggy back" to fornits, if ISAC and fornits would like this to happen. If not fornits then another or for that matter what would it cost just to buy the lot, stock and barrel.