Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 07:31:00 PM
Post by: Deborah on September 23, 2003, 07:56:00 PM
How clever to go in as an interested parent.
What I noticed was Narv's response regarding allegations of abuse.
Paraphrase: No kid has ever acused me of abuse.
Well, hell no. It's his hired hands that carry out the abuse. Remaining distant allows him to be deceptive and makes lying without showing guilt easier. What do you want to bet he pleads that he was not aware of the abuse, when the rubber meets the road?
And how bout all those parents who have never visited the facilty? Wonder what they thought when they got a look at the facilty. Looked like a prisoner of war camp to me. I know what these places are capable of and I was even surprised.
Those that support this are just out of their minds. That clip needs to be sent to any parent who goes to a message board looking for a program.
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 08:11:00 PM
No way was Ryan even close to being believable! What a crock! He didn't even look convincing when he was talking - he saw what everyone, including parents see, when they go to Casa and he denied it! :???: Might just burst the bubble on his film career?
The concentration camp thing wasn't even a wwasps place - what's up with that?
Dundee is closed, so ... it means nothing to me to see it after the chaos other than it probably looked a lot better prior to the destruction.
The motivation is clear....let's shut them down and send them to other schools that have the same allegations that just aren't reported on.
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 08:20:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 08:21:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 08:22:00 PM
Post by: Deborah on September 23, 2003, 08:47:00 PM
What he, and we, saw through the hidden camera was what prospective parents see. It's been alledged numerous times that there is a big clean up before a parent arrives. What he said was that it was bullshit. He may have never seen it that good. It's unfortunate that they didn't do more of an interview with him.
Depends on what your looking and listening for. How bout the concern regarding how many bunks were crammed into that small space? 15 beds. Narv said they only ever had 12, max. Then why not take out the extra beds and make some more breathing room for the 12? Use that sq footage for chest of drawers.
I would guess that one of the reasons they don't want to be licensed in Ca. (or anywhere for that matter)- there are minimum requirements for space, so many sq ft per participant, storage space for clothes and personal items, etc. That cuts into profit.
This guy is raking in the dough. Parents may pay less for WWASP programs, and now we see why.
Ghetto conditions, untrained staff= less "tuition".
Do any of the brochures show pictures of the inside of the facilty?
**The concentratin camp thing wasn't even a wwasps place - what's up with that?
How do you know this? Who are you and why should anyone believe you?
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 09:34:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 09:38:00 PM
Deborah - my take is that Narvin showed the reporter around after all the destruction. He said they normally have 12 bunks, so it's possible they moved beds from another area while they were repairing...just a thought.
It's common knowledge that parents are at Casa by the Sea on a daily basis, so whatever Ryan was talking about - for the parents - seems to be a desperate attempt to discredit what the "parent" filmed. I do agree that they need to lower the enrollment to be crowded looking.
I would have liked to have heard from parents and graduates of Casa, and also from some others from Dundee Ranch on their experiences. It wasn't enough to convince me the girl from Texas was truthful. Her mother obviously was distraught and made for a convincing story. Tears have a way of doing that sometimes.
It's also common knowledge that High Impact was never wwasps, but they sent kids there for a wake up call - and it mostly worked...bad call, though. High Impact was open to everyone, not just wwasps kids from what I've read in the past, true or not?
I don't know...maybe never will, but I think the story did more good than harm - thanks to Ryan. :wink:
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 09:59:00 PM
I will agree Ryan is not a good candidate for either side. I hate to say he isnt credible but IMHO, he isn't. I agree with Anon, he didnt have much to say either. Is that why he has just a cameo shot in his movie? I didnt hear a word about lead plaintiff, just he maybe part of a lawsuit. He tried. He is young.
Post by: MelissaR on September 23, 2003, 10:10:00 PM
I hate to say it...but I TOLDJA SOOOOO
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 10:22:00 PM
Get the transcript. The interviewer commented on how crowded it was, pointing out that there were 15 beds. Narv didn't say they had extras in there. He said that yes, there were 15, but they never had over 12 kids in there at a time.
***It's common knowledge that parents are at Casa by the Sea on a daily basis
It's common knowledge to Who? How many parents drive or fly to Mexico everyday to see their teen? How many ever even visit except perhaps for graduation? How many enroll their teens without viewing the facility, like the Houston woman in the piece? I don't believe parents are in there everyday unless they are volunteers working there who support the status quo.
Bet there's a few making airlines reservations tonight.
Yep, mothers and fathers can be distraught when they learn that they *ucked up and sent their kids to be abused.
RE: The Hi Impact/WWASP Connection
Another of the Illusions
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2001/8/np4.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2001/8/np4.html)
Aug 2001 HIGH IMPACT BOOT CAMP Baja California, Mexico
Dwayne Lee, Admissions Coordinator ? Parent Resources Hotline
Hurricane, Utah 800-793-5156
[I called their web site number to ask some questions about the Parent Resources Hotline, identifying myself as an educational consultant. The person answering the phone informed me he was only authorized to send a packet of information and did not answer any of my questions. The packet I received included a photocopy of a letter from Dwayne Lee of Parent Resources Hotline, a Sample Daily Schedule for WWASP Programs, a brochure for High Impact, a Video Tape and a brochure for the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs: Casa by the Sea, Carolina Springs Academy, Cross Creek Academy, Spring Creek Lodge and Tranquility Bay. Apparently Parent Resources Hotline exclusively markets High Impact and WWASP programs.-Lon]
The audiotape sent with the promotional packet consisted of a number of testimonials by parents and ex-students, mostly, however, apparently referring to the long-term WWASP programs rather than High Impact. A price list was included for the various WWASP programs, but none for High Impact.
***************************
And the HI website. There is no link to "About Us". No mention of staff, who they are, or anything... all that's there is a little about HI and links to all the WWASP programs.
http://www.parentresources.net/bootcamp ... tCamp.html (http://www.parentresources.net/bootcamps/highimpact/BootCamp.html)
28 Day High Impact Program
90 Day Boot Camp
Tranquility Bay
Renowned Specialty Boarding Schools
Casa by the Sea
Carolina Springs Academy
Spring Creek Lodge
Cross Creek Manor
Streaming Videos
Parent Resource Video
World Wide Association Video
Parent Resource Booklets
How to deal with defient teens
How to tell if your teen is using drugs
Copyright © 2001 Parent Recources Hotline
_________________
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 10:43:00 PM
You haven't convinced me that High Impact was wwasps. You've stated that Parent Resources exclusively marketed High Impact, along with wwasps programs. Why didn't the other marketing companies..Teen Help, etc., market High Impact if it was wwasps. It wasn't.
Mom was crying because she believed her troubled teen yet again.
It just doesn't wash...too one sided, but good for the cause anyway. Maybe we can get other to believe it ...dunno! We can sure give it a shot!
And, yes I do believe there are parents at Casa by the Sea everyday. It's only a short drive from San Diego. So, why not.
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 10:46:00 PM
Post by: Deborah on September 23, 2003, 11:04:00 PM
Too one-sided? Narv declined. I'm sure they would've given him equal time and probably put on some of his groupies had he responded. Perhaps he was afraid he'd have to answer difficult questions on national TV?
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 12:22:00 AM
Deborah - you make no sense to me at all! Personal effects, etc? They clearly shot that video AFTER the place was destroyed by the renegade teens. WHY would there be any personal effects? So what if there were 12 or 15 kids in the room? They chose to not appreciate what they had at home, so...too bad, so,sad. Your filters look for the negative. Is it fun being you? Though it would be hard to find anything positive in that story,you've taken it levels lower in your own mind.
Back to Ryan. :rofl: I truly hope he's NOT the lead plantiff...for the cause will crash and burn.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 01:02:00 AM
Quote
On 2003-09-23 21:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Did I read somewhere that Ryan Friedenburg is the LEAD plantiff in the class action? :rofl:
Deborah - you make no sense to me at all! Personal effects, etc? They clearly shot that video AFTER the place was destroyed by the renegade teens. WHY would there be any personal effects? So what if there were 12 or 15 kids in the room? They chose to not appreciate what they had at home, so...too bad, so,sad. Your filters look for the negative. Is it fun being you? Though it would be hard to find anything positive in that story,you've taken it levels lower in your own mind.
Back to Ryan. :rofl: I truly hope he's NOT the lead plantiff...for the cause will crash and burn. "
Speaking of the class-action-lawsuit, what is the REAL REASON it has yet to be filed? ISAC has been promoting it on their website for awhile now and there have been many posts on this forum urging parents and former students to "get on board" since the announcement of this soon-to-be-filed lawsuit was made 4 months ago.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 04:26:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My son was in Casa by the Sea for 7 months. Dace Goulding manufactured a lie about my son and true to the form and purpose of WWASP manipulated me into agreeing to send my boy to High Impact. He said that he oversaw the place and that it was a camping experience for those who go and that it covered a beautiful vast area and was very secluded and secure. My son got in an altercation there when the staff who was supposed to watch the boys 24/7 left them alone. My son suffered a broken thumb. He was thrown into a dog kennel cage (I have a video of High Impact provided to me by a detective who investigated it for me.) He was in this cage for 8 days. The first 3 days, he was made to lay on his stomach in the hog tied position with his chin out and supporting his head. He was told not to move lest he be electroucted with a cattle prod. The prod was discharged inches from his face so that he would know it worked. Now before he was trown into the cage, he was beaten by the staff. Efren Hernandez Garcia, grabbed my son by his ears and slammed his face into the dirt until the teeth in his lower jaw broke through to the outside of his lower lip. He was thrown into the cage and his clothes were removed and he lay in a pool of blood from his injury. This is is how he spent his nights. Each night he prayed to go numb from the cold by the numbness never came. He had to lay still as insects crawled over him. At sunrise, he was made to put on thermal underwear and then a heavy woolen sweat suit of navy blue. The temperatures in the day were over 100. He was forced to march. He would fight to not put the sweats on. The staff would grab his broken thumb and twist it to force him to put the clothes on. He complained constantly that his thumb was broken. He was never treated or given medical attention. He was fed only bread and water for 3 days. During the forced marches in the desert heat wearing clothes designed to provoke a heat stroke, he was given an ounce of water every hour. He should have been given a quart. When I finally got him out of there, he was taken to an emergency room. He was immediately scheduled for emergency orthopaedic surgery. He had a bone broken in three places that needed to be put back together with two screws. It was my reports to Mexican authorities that led to the shut down of High Impact. Dace Goulding lies to this day about his knowledge and involvement in High Impact. It was his idea, he oversaw it. The first director, Efren Hernandez, said that Dace Goulding was his boss. The initial calls to High Impact were handled by Casa by the Sea. I am a member in Jeff Berryman's group and am still trying to get a good lawyer. I had one, Tom Burton, but everyone told me to drop him. My son turned 18 this past April. My son sank deeply into hell, the whole year after he was removed from WWASP. I was a program parent until I realized it was the program manipulating me, not my son.
Post by: FaceKhan on September 24, 2003, 04:30:00 AM
Post by: Deborah on September 24, 2003, 07:08:00 AM
The sleeping quarters were not destroyed, the beds were made and there was nothing on the floor. There were only bunk beds that looked like they were constructed of used lumber. The kids were packed in like sardines with a small walkway. No pictures on the wall, no personal space or personal effects. There was no place for personal effects if they had any, no storage. That might be okay in your mind, but those conditions would not fly with any reasonable state regulator, or any reasonable parent. BTW, the teens shown leaving Dundee were not carrying anything.
**So what if there were 12 or 15 kids in the room?
So what? You obviously have been duped regarding what is and is not humane treatment. Seems to me that you are "choosing" not to acknowledge what is blatantly wrong with this scenerio. 12-15 in a larger room may not be so bad, although I think there are limits on that as well. The issue was the size of space they had 12-15 in. It wouldn't fly here. It violates Safety and Health codes.
**They chose to not appreciate what they had at home, so...too bad, so,sad. Your filters look for the negative.
And you perceive a hell-hole concentration camp for teens as acceptable, positive. You apparently have bought the party line that says teens deserve to be treated inhumanely because they "CHOSE to not appreciate what they had at home". Is that what all you program parents are really pissed about? So after 2 years in a concentration camp they'll certainly return and "appreciate" what you have to offer. Is that how it works?
And the use of the word CHOSE. Very cleverly designed propoganda for turning parents against their kids. It implies that the child is totally conscious of the "choices" they are making and at fault. This is wrong thinking, but does serve the purpose of dividing and conquering, and justifying "extreme austere measures". Hold the child accountable and let the parent off the hook. Cause after all, if they are consciously choosing to be inappreciative, they deserve to be banished to hell for a reality check. Right?
**Is it fun being you?
It is. Is that something that is drilled into ya'll in seminar? Seems you or another anon has asked that same question before. Everytime I hear it I envision a nine yr old asking it. I interpret it as an indirect communication. I think you resent me and just don't know how to express it.
***Though it would be hard to find anything positive in that story,you've taken it levels lower in your own mind.
Levels lower, no, just viewing it and comparing it to what is considered reasonable, sane, and humane treatment by state regulators and the majority of Americans who don't hate teens. It may be hard to find anything positive because there isn't anything. I know you and others would prefer that they just interview parents and grads without going inside the facility.
I for one, would prefer to "see" their BM techniques in action. I would like to see how they restrain and for what reasons, what actually happens in OP, etc. I don't believe a parent could watch it happening to their child and decide it was appropriate treatment. As long as it's out-of-sight-out-of-mind, and there are other program parents repeating the mantra, "trust the program", parents won't know unless it is exposed. In that regard, the piece was extremely positive.
If the torture techniques work so well, and the "success rate" is so high, why not let the world in on the technique. Perhaps others would be supportive when they saw the technique being applied. Perhaps scholars would do extensive research and raise BM to a new level...beyond punishment and reward to actual torture. If there's nothing to hide and everything's above board, then let an outsider in to document this "revolutionary" treatment for so-called defiant, struggling, unapprecitive teens.
There is nothing revolutionary about torture, and anyone who knows anything about the methods knows why "it works".
Post by: Deborah on September 24, 2003, 07:34:00 AM
The parents, mom particularly, was extremely remorseful. She said she went to the internet and found WWASP, sent her "out of control" daughter there based on a website and video- didn't check out the facility. She cried and said she was sorry. I think she genuinely regretted her decision.
Her daughter told a little about her experience and showed the OP position. Said that her arm was twisted until it popped out of the socket.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 08:07:00 AM
Post by: Carey on September 24, 2003, 10:17:00 AM
Ryan, on the other hand, has managed to cast a shadow of doubt upon the real truth and the real problems and issues with these programs.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 10:24:00 AM
Of coarse it was.
Narvin was well on his way to his own High Impact when Dundee went down. Its were they held the kids who wouldn't sign the 'I love it here' document after the raid.
Why do you want to keep making excuses for such hateful brutality?
Why aren't you outraged at how you've been lied to and manipulated by these obscenely greedy, callous and sadistic profiteering pirates?
Ask yourself, Why am I defending them? Why aren't I angry? Why can't I even consider the possibility that I've been taken advantage of and my teen assaulted both mentally and physically?
There is a reason why.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 12:30:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-09-24 07:17:00, Carey wrote:
Ryan, on the other hand, has managed to cast a shadow of doubt upon the real truth and the real problems and issues with these programs. "
Seems kind of biased to me Carey. What did Ryan say or do differently than the girl? She said the place mistreated her, etc. Her parents regreated sending her there. Same with Ryan and his mother. Hhhmmm, I don't see much of a difference.
You've had a chip on your shoulder for him and Coldwater for some time now. Get over it, geez - he's certainly NOT saying those places where good. But I guess he didn't come across properly in your eyes. What would YOU have him do differently? You seem to always be critical of what others are doing, yet you never offer a suggestion or solution.
But honestly, I don't think anything he does will be "good enough" for you. Kinda pathetic. So are a lot of you on this board, all you do is complain about others. At least Ryan is out there trying to make a difference. Sure, he may not be perfect in his means, but he's learning, and we can't expect a 16y/o kid to carry himself like a 35y/o adult might. (although based on the behavior of some adults that post here, he's doing pretty well). We all make mistakes in our lives, and we learn from them.
It's kind of like the person that always complains about how much they hate their job, or is unhappy in their marrieage, but never does anything about it.
My feeling is, do something positive or shut the F*$# up!
Post by: FaceKhan on September 24, 2003, 01:19:00 PM
Of course when the someone else is more than just a strict relative who lives in the middle of nowhere, and turns out to be a cult where torture sessions are measured in months the parents get all regretful and want sympathy.
The other thing that bugs me is that almost all the parents always say that sending their kid away was the hardest thing they ever did. I would take that to mean that they did not feel good about it when they did it and a parent who does not feel comfortable leaving their kid in someone else's care should not have done it.
People need to be a little more independent and parents need to resist peer pressure a bit.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 01:27:00 PM
Just as you have made no mistakes, neither has anyone else. Every person's actions have been exactly what you have needed to bring you into this moment. Blame and victim consciousness drain your power and personal energy.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 01:35:00 PM
Quote
At least Ryan is out there trying to make a difference.
Ryan is out there trying to sell himself and his movie, Coldwater. He has not done anything to help others. He is only hurting those who are still in these "programs". He can't keep his story straight from one moment to the next. I wish that Inside Edition would have asked him about his movie and the "bribe/ransom".
He is not creditable in my eyes. I am sure he will not be creditable in the eyes of many.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 01:36:00 PM
Post by: Carey on September 24, 2003, 01:37:00 PM
Quote
At least Ryan is out there trying to make a difference.
Ryan is out there trying to sell himself and his movie, Coldwater. He has not done anything to help others. He is only hurting those who are still in these "programs". He can't keep his story straight from one moment to the next. I wish that Inside Edition would have asked him about his movie and the "bribe/ransom".
He is not creditable in my eyes. I am sure he will not be creditable in the eyes of many. He nor his mother seemed at all sincere or troubled by what they claimed to have experienced. They seemed to me to be self promoting more than anything.
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-24 10:40 ]
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 02:01:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-09-24 10:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
Ryan is out there trying to sell himself and his movie, Coldwater. He has not done anything to help others. He is only hurting those who are still in these "programs". He can't keep his story straight from one moment to the next. I wish that Inside Edition would have asked him about his movie and the "bribe/ransom".
He is not creditable in my eyes. I am sure he will not be creditable in the eyes of many. "
Considering you weren't at his inside edition interview, then how do you KNOW what they asked and didn't ask. Apparently you aren't aware that news documentary shows such as this ask many many questions during the interivews and then edit it down to fit the television format in which they work.
And as for changing "bribe" to "ransom" is purely semantics. It's called presenting things properly. Perhaps they felt the use of bribe sounded wrong, who knows.
But once again, you all attack, yet really don't say anything. I'm really wasting my time even responding, I just find what you all say as almost amusing.
What I find REALLY funny is how much you all follow his website and the revisions to it. Just like you all will be there on opening night of Coldwater whether or not you'll actually admit is another story.
So keep on complaining about Ryan and Coldwater - all you're doing is promoting his cause and the film.
BTW: If you'd like the names of the kids that Ryan HAS helped, let me know and I'll send that to you. Just cuz it isn't all over the web or in the media, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Some day, you'll all eat your acusatory words!
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 02:14:00 PM
You're back- maybe you can answer the question posed to you about what you are doin to help kids besides bashing others who are trying to help?
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 02:23:00 PM
lesley_cameron@cbc.ca
Post by: Deborah on September 24, 2003, 02:28:00 PM
Just as you have made no mistakes, neither has anyone else. Every person's actions have been exactly what you have needed to bring you into this moment. Blame and victim consciousness drain your power and personal energy.
*************
Your seminar bablled is unwelcomed unless you want to rephrase it as an I statement. No one here volunteered to be in your peer group assessment or requested your wisdom quote of the day. There most certainly are victims, and realizing one has been victimized can often revitalize their personal power and energy. I suppose you are also suggesting that justice has no place in a world where no one ever does anything wrong, because everything is as it should be. Bah-loney.
Furthermore, if you believed this, you wouldn't support teens being warehoused in programs, you wouldn't feel victim to your lying, manipulating teen, you would simply allow them to live their life as you have prepared (or not) them to do. The program has convinced you that seeking their "help" is an action to take so you aren't stuck in the victim consciousness. Wake up. You have been victimized.
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-09-24 11:30 ]
Post by: Carey on September 24, 2003, 02:30:00 PM
You don't have to agree with me on how see things. It is ok for you to have your thoughts and opinions separate and apart from mine. I don't hold that against you.
Quote
And as for changing "bribe" to "ransom" is purely semantics. It's called presenting things properly. Perhaps they felt the use of bribe sounded wrong, who knows.
Calling it what it is I would think to be a pretty important issue. What Ryan did was make an accusations and then retract it because of critisism.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 03:09:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 03:42:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 03:57:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-09-24 12:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ouch this will hurt, but I agree with Carey on this one. Ryan is not consistent and not creditable, that TX family was. WWAPS is bad, no doubt, but Ryan is not helping the situation. I cant believe no one picked up that they didnt mention him as a lead plaintiff or a plaintiff at all! His website promotes him as lead plaintiff, Inside Edition stated he hopes to be able to join. Wonder what is going on here. Truth or Fiction."
I agree, something is definitly not right here. Maybe Berryman or someone else from "his" group can enlighten us on what's really going on????
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 06:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-09-24 12:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ouch this will hurt, but I agree with Carey on this one. Ryan is not consistent and not creditable, that TX family was. WWAPS is bad, no doubt, but Ryan is not helping the situation. I cant believe no one picked up that they didnt mention him as a lead plaintiff or a plaintiff at all! His website promotes him as lead plaintiff, Inside Edition stated he hopes to be able to join. Wonder what is going on here. Truth or Fiction."
You and Carey "both" need to locate a dictionary. I think the word you are wanting to use is "credible".
Post by: Carey on September 24, 2003, 06:47:00 PM
Anyway, attack what you can about our spelling, because you surely have no argument about the real issue. If you did, that would have been what you would have addressed.
Now lets go back to what I said:
Quote
He is not creditable in my eyes. I am sure he will not be creditable in the eyes of many. "
The dictionary, Webster's, defines creditable as "meriting praise." In my opinion, Ryan merits no praise!
But you know, now that you mention it, he is less than credible, likewise. He deserves no praise and he is not deserving of anyones confidence as he has no credibility either.
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-24 15:49 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-24 15:52 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-24 15:55 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-24 15:56 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-24 16:00 ]
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 07:00:00 PM
your point? you got the jest of the point. the boy is not credible or creditable. probably not a lead plaintiff either.
Post by: Carey on September 24, 2003, 07:02:00 PM
Anyway, attack what you can about our spelling, because you surely have no argument about the real issue. If you did, that would have been what you would have addressed.
Now lets go back to what I said:
Quote
He is not creditable in my eyes. I am sure he will not be creditable in the eyes of many. "
The dictionary, Webster's, defines creditable as "meriting praise." In my opinion, Ryan merits no praise!
But you know, now that you mention it, he is less than credible, likewise. He deserves no praise and he is not deserving of anyones confidence as he has no credibility either.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 07:02:00 PM
Post by: Carey on September 24, 2003, 07:17:00 PM
I think it is a shame that you can not discuss the subject with statments that might make a difference instead of your paranoid comments like " The point was you can always track Carey's posts whether she uses her name or not." How lame can you be?
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-24 16:20 ]
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 07:28:00 PM
Do teens really say this stuff? Wouldn't that get government officials to come and investigate only to find everything was acceptable?
From what I've heard, they say this stuff on a daily basis at all these types of schools. And the parents don't believe it because they've either been to the schools or know other teens that had been and know the tactics? What about crying wolf??
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 07:56:00 PM
Post by: Deborah on September 24, 2003, 09:33:00 PM
You're kidding right? You're either new to the industry or baiting?
Consistent throughout the industry is the same MO for ensuring that the parents don't hear about abuse.
First, there are no phone calls for months while they are busy convincing the teen that their parents don't give a shit about them and conditioning them to fear consequences for "being out of agreement" (or whatever their particular term might be). Out of agreement would be reporting anything negative about the facility to their parent, or even uttering a complaint to a peer.
The teen has no access to a public phone, all calls are monitored. Any negative comment made after calls are finally allowed, is labeled manipulation. The call is immediately terminated and the teen is consequenced. While they have been brainwashing the teen, they are working on the parents, telling them to ignore what their teen says, and to report it to a counselor right away so their "manipulation" can be handled "appropriately". The parents nark on their kids because they want to believe the BS program line.
Incoming and outgoing mail is read by staff. The teen will never get anything out that hints of abuse. They might attempt a couple of times, but after limited calories, extra work detail, no interaction with their peers, etc. etc. they give up.
You can be assured there will be no visits for months, until they know the kid has been sufficiently brainwashed. They will loose their privelege for a home visit for minor infractions.
It's a closed-loop system. No access to the outside world. They come to believe that the program has ultimate authority over their lives, that their parents couldn't care less what's happening. Parents don't usually hear about abuse until much later, if ever.
My son told me, but he didn't tell his dad, and hasn't to this day, because he knows his dad is in his own lala land of make believe. I think his dad is representative of most program parents.
Post by: Antigen on September 24, 2003, 09:53:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-09-24 10:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No One Has Wronged You.
Just as you have made no mistakes, neither has anyone else. Every person's actions have been exactly what you have needed to bring you into this moment. Blame and victim consciousness drain your power and personal energy.
"
Now, why can't WASPies take that attitude with the kids in their care instead of beating them down all the time?
Photo from a recent RR seminar.
We are a one party country. Half of them call themselves Democrats and the other half call themselves Republicans. All the good ideas come from the Libertarians.
--Hugh Downs
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 10:25:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2003, 10:28:00 PM
Post by: Deborah on September 24, 2003, 10:44:00 PM
Can we say ANAL?
Can we assume desperate?
FYI....
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde inervtisy,
it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a
wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the
frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.
The rset can be a totla mses adn you can sitll
raed it wouthit porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed
ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Post by: Deborah on September 25, 2003, 12:00:00 AM
Brainwashing tends to have that effect.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2001/8/np4.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2001/8/np4.html)
New Perspectives - August, 2001 Issue #84
HIGH IMPACT BOOT CAMP
Baja California, Mexico
Dwayne Lee, Admissions Coordinator ?
Parent Resources Hotline
Hurricane, Utah
800-793-5156
That phone number is for Parent Resources.
Parent Resource video contains live footage of parents of teens in a special group of schools and programs. These parent express their appreciation for the schools and programs that have changed their teens life for the better.
http://www.parentresources.net/JL/booklet_htdwdt.html (http://www.parentresources.net/JL/booklet_htdwdt.html)
| Tranquility Bay | Renowned Specialty Boarding Schools |
| Casa by the Sea | Carolina Springs Academy | Spring Creek Lodge | Cross Creek Manor | Streaming Videos |
| Parent Resource Video | World Wide Association Video | Parent Resource Booklets |
| How to deal with defient teens | How to tell if your teen is using drugs |
CURIOUS. THE WEBSITE DOESN'T MENTION HIGH IMPACT. IT DOES MENTION ALL THE OTHER WWASP PROGRAMS.
AND LOOKY HERE...
http://www.strugglingteens.com/lr/Inter ... Treatment/ (http://www.strugglingteens.com/lr/International/Mexico/Residential_Treatment/)
(Ensenda)
Casa By The Sea 800-793-5156
I'LL BE DARN. THE SAME PHONE NUMBER. GOLLY GEE...
YA THINK THAT WAS A TYPO? DO YOU PEOPLE THINK THE REST OF US ARE JUST PODUNK IDIOTS?
AND,
http://www.ticotimes.net/archive/03_20_03_2.htm (http://www.ticotimes.net/archive/03_20_03_2.htm)
Lichfield said the sites were erroneously published by Parent Resources, a Utah-based marketing firm that handles enrollment and admissions for the WWASP's nine programs in the U.S. and abroad.
And,
http://pub57.ezboard.com/fwevebeenthere ... D=41.topic (http://pub57.ezboard.com/fwevebeentherefrm7.showMessage?topicID=41.topic)
My son was in Casa by the Sea for 7 months. Dace Goulding manufactured a lie about my son and true to the form and purpose of WWASP manipulated me into agreeing to send my boy to High Impact. He said that he oversaw the place and that it was a camping experience for those who go and that it covered a beautiful vast area and was very secluded and secure. My son got in an altercation there when the staff who was supposed to watch the boys 24/7 left them alone. My son suffered a broken thumb. He was thrown into a dog kennel cage (I have a video of High Impact provided to me by a detective who investigated it for me.) He was in this cage for 8 days. The first 3 days, he was made to lay on his stomach in the hog tied position with his chin out and supporting his head. He was told not to move lest he be electroucted with a cattle prod. The prod was discharged inches from his face so that he would know it worked. Now before he was trown into the cage, he was beaten by the staff. Efren Hernandez Garcia, grabbed my son by his ears and slammed his face into the dirt until the teeth in his lower jaw broke through to the outside of his lower lip. He was thrown into the cage and his clothes were removed and he lay in a pool of blood from his injury. This is is how he spent his nights. Each night he prayed to go numb from the cold by the numbness never came. He had to lay still as insects crawled over him. At sunrise, he was made to put on thermal underwear and then a heavy woolen sweat suit of navy blue. The temperatures in the day were over 100. He was forced to march. He would fight to not put the sweats on. The staff would grab his broken thumb and twist it to force him to put the clothes on. He complained constantly that his thumb was broken. He was never treated or given medical attention. He was fed only bread and water for 3 days. During the forced marches in the desert heat wearing clothes designed to provoke a heat stroke, he was given an ounce of water every hour. He should have been given a quart. When I finally got him out of there, he was taken to an emergency room. He was immediately scheduled for emergency orthopaedic surgery. He had a bone broken in three places that needed to be put back together with two screws. It was my reports to Mexican authorities that led to the shut down of High Impact. Dace Goulding lies to this day about his knowledge and involvement in High Impact. It was his idea, he oversaw it. The first director, Efren Hernandez, said that Dace Goulding was his boss. The initial calls to High Impact were handled by Casa by the Sea. I am a member in Jeff Berryman's group and am still trying to get a good lawyer. I had one, Tom Burton, but everyone told me to drop him. My son turned 18 this past April. My son sank deeply into hell, the whole year after he was removed from WWASP. I was a program parent until I realized it was the program manipulating me, not my son.
***********************
The truth eventually come out. How do you people sleep at night? You have such high expectations of your children- to function with integrity and honesty. It certainly appears to be a case of "Do as I say, Not as I do." You're just creepy.
Post by: Anonymous on September 25, 2003, 01:21:00 AM
Parent Resources markets wwasps.
Parent Resources also markets other programs - including, at one time, High Impact. PR was the only one that had permission to do so since the other marketing companies are restricted to wwasps PERIOD.
A former employee of Casa by the Sea opened High Impact. High Impact was suggested when a teen was violent and was no longer welcome at a wwasps school.
It wasn't owned by or operated by WWASPS.
There were other kids there that were never in a wwasps school.
I've done my homework. :wink:
Post by: Anonymous on September 25, 2003, 02:24:00 AM
That Tico Times article looks like it's full of "holes" as most newspaper articles are.
And you're quoting something from another forum as fact?? Funny
Post by: Deborah on September 25, 2003, 07:52:00 AM
***It wasn't owned by or operated by WWASPS.
Isn't that what WWASP says about all the programs-they don't own or operate them, only "lend support to"?
The High Impact site gives no information about about the administration or owner, only the phone number to PR. Why didn't HI market their program?
http://www.teenbootcamps.com/highimpact/ (http://www.teenbootcamps.com/highimpact/)
Struggling Teens reported that Dwayne Lee was the Adm Coordinator for High Impact. He's also the contact for Parent Resources. Who was the owner?
Who is William Turner?
1-800-793-5156
Ask For Dwayne
Referred By: William Turner
http://www.parentshelpingteens.com/will ... _s_f_p.php (http://www.parentshelpingteens.com/williamtu/booklet_s_f_p.php)
The phone number at the HI site is for PR, yet when ST requested information--
"The audiotape sent with the promotional packet consisted of a number of testimonials by parents and ex-students, mostly, however, apparently referring to the long-term WWASP programs rather than High Impact. A price list was included for the various WWASP programs, but none for High Impact. "
***Parent Resources also markets other programs - including, at one time, High Impact. PR was the only one that had permission to do so since the other marketing companies are restricted to wwasps PERIOD.
Which programs, other than WWASP and HI, does PR market? If you've done your homework you should be able to provide a link to substantiate that?
Post by: Antigen on September 25, 2003, 12:40:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-09-24 21:00:00, Deborah wrote:
"***You haven't convinced me that High Impact was wwasps.
Brainwashing tends to have that effect.
Yes, it does. So don't get too distracted with the fools errand of trying to deprogram brainwashed people. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig. Instead, let's just concentrate on getting the word out to the sane people in this country to restrain the crazies.
Quote
The truth eventually come out. How do you people sleep at night? You have such high expectations of your children- to function with integrity and honesty. It certainly appears to be a case of "Do as I say, Not as I do." You're just creepy.
"
Tell me about it! When I got out of Straight I had to fight my mother tooth and nail through the courts to stay out. Even after I turned of age, she tried to force me into the other Straight, LIFE in Osprey just down the road from Sarasota. I was vaguely aware of some investigations and lawsuites at the time. But I really wasn't interested in that. I was tired, didn't want to fight, never did want to fight my parents to begin with and just wanted to get on with my life.
Years later, I found some of the news articles that were all over the papers at the time. And I talked to people who were involved in the investigations and building the indictment against the Program. I found that there is absolutely no way that my mother could not have known what she was trying to force me into.
It was a strange feeling. I felt vindicated because this was pretty much solid evidence of those subtle and difficult to explain reasons why I couldn't have anything to do with her. But, at the same time, it was crushing. In some ways, I liked it better when it was an unsettled question, maybe I was just an asshole daughter asking too much from my mother.
A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
about it.
--GW Büsh, Business Week, July 30, 2001
Post by: Anonymous on September 25, 2003, 05:31:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-09-24 22:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Deborah - get your facts straight.
Parent Resources markets wwasps.
Parent Resources also markets other programs - including, at one time, High Impact. PR was the only one that had permission to do so since the other marketing companies are restricted to wwasps PERIOD.
A former employee of Casa by the Sea opened High Impact. High Impact was suggested when a teen was violent and was no longer welcome at a wwasps school.
It wasn't owned by or operated by WWASPS.
There were other kids there that were never in a wwasps school.
I've done my homework. :wink:
"
MOST of the marketing for HI was done internally since MOST of the teens were sent from a wwasp program to HI then back to another wwasp program. Not much need for marketing outside of wwasp. The facility made the travel arrangements and the billing didn't change while the child was at HI.
Are you suggesting that only violent teens were sent to HI? Jay Kay suggested sending my son to HI because he was too comfortable and was not progressing. He was never violent. Not welcome at other schools? When I chose not to send my son to HI there was no talk of him not being welcome at TB.
There may have been others at HI that were not from a wwasp school but I am willing to bet they were referred to another wwasp facility before leaving HI. And there is no question that the vast majority were sent there from a wwasp facility on the recommendation of someone at the child's program.
I suggest your homework is incomplete.
Judy
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2003, 01:20:00 AM
Post by: anon on September 26, 2003, 11:55:00 AM
Weather you buy it or not - its the truth. However, to be clear 'no books' in this case means very very few. For instance - as I recall the photos of the library at the time - a shelf that could hold say 100 books, had maybe 3.
[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-09-26 08:59 ]
Post by: Carey on September 26, 2003, 12:21:00 PM
Quote
clear 'no books' in this case means very very few.
Karen, you sound just like Clinton...depends on what your definition of 'no books' "is".
Quote
and I imagine thats what was spoken of
That is what you seem to be good at...imagining.
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2003, 01:21:00 PM
If you went in to a library, and they have a mear 10 books to what should be hundreds or even thousands - don't you think you might say to someone - that darn library hasn't got any books!
And if the comment in question is about school books - then there weren't any of those either.
Post by: Carey on September 26, 2003, 03:34:00 PM
Quote
If you went in to a library, and they have a mear 10 books to what should be hundreds or even thousands - don't you think you might say to someone - that darn library hasn't got any books!
No, accuracy is important to me! If I only saw 10 books on the shelf, then I would say there were only 10 books on the shelf in the library. (By the way, and everyone knows how much I hate Dundee, Litchfiled, Joe and the others who hurt my boys, however, one thing my boys did do at Dundee that was good was to read. They read paper backs, but none the less, they read.)
It is kinda of like saying "I was beaten" verses "I was restrained." There is a difference if accuracy is important to you. Both in my opinion are abusive given the individuals (those Dundee employees who had no training) who were doing the "restraining" and/or "beating."
So as far as Karen's Clinton statement, attempting to define "no books", it is another testament to her inability to provide any worthwhile creditable/credible information.
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2003, 04:42:00 PM
This whole thing is confusing. Doesn't PURE refer to behavior programs that may or may not be "good" programs? Who knows for sure?
Is it your feeling PURE was the one that got Inside Edition to report this story?
I'm sure if that good or bad since they refer to the same types of programs, but just aren't in the news.
Post by: Carey on September 26, 2003, 05:14:00 PM
I do know how Inside Edition found out about the video, and it was not through PURE. It was because I knew of its exisitence and I knew who owned it. I put Inside Edition in touch with the owner. I know that there is another news agency that also has a copy of the video.
No, PURE persay, is not to receive credit for the airing of this story. However, there are some individuals who are on her listserv, including the owner of the video tape, that can be credited with this story being aired.
The Times Picayune and The Tico Times and two other TV broadcast shows (20/20 and a German TV station) are the only media outlets that wrote on this story without being tipped on to it by my professional contact.
After my original trip and story in the local news paper here, I met an individual who's company works very close with the various media outlets. This individual read my story and offered to help me to focus the media's attention on Dundee first, and then on these programs in general.
You see my contact would put the word out on the Associated Press Wire and all of the other news media outlets picked up on it. He would then give them my contact name and I would in turn give the contact information out on others who were willing to talk to the press.Anyway, that is how and why the media became interested in these types of programs.
Evidently, the owner of the tape decided to release it to Inside Edition instead of saving it for the "class action." That is what I said he should have done all along. Evidence is evidence. It can still be used in court. Why keep it from the public? I guess he understands that now.
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-26 14:30 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-26 14:32 ]
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2003, 05:28:00 PM
Yes, Carey we credit you. NOT. Idiot - this is not about you, your story is old news. Inside Edition was new. Your problem is your 15 minutes of fame is up. Yes,I am anon, so what.
Post by: Carey on September 26, 2003, 05:31:00 PM
Quote
blah blah blah
Yes, Carey we credit you. NOT. Idiot - this is not about you, your story is old news. Inside Edition was new. Your problem is your 15 minutes of fame is up. Yes,I am anon, so what.
Can't you do better than that? I just want to set the truth straight. Don't you?
I don't need anon's, those with bags over their heads, to give me credit. My boys give me credit. That is all I need!
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-26 14:36 ]
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2003, 05:33:00 PM
Post by: Carey on September 26, 2003, 05:41:00 PM
I thought the owner may have come to his senses, my mistake. I did not realize he had been passing out copies. Well someone did the right thing with the video, anyway.
Quote
atleast it was productive
How do you define productive? Like Karen defines 'no books.'
Quote
i hope the owner has some recourse
Why, was it sold to Inside Edition? Is that what you mean by recourse?
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-26 14:44 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-26 14:46 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-26 14:48 ]
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2003, 05:57:00 PM
recourse? hopefully the owner had copyrights and has some legal recourse.
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2003, 06:05:00 PM
Post by: Carey on September 26, 2003, 06:07:00 PM
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-26 15:08 ]
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2003, 06:40:00 PM
Post by: Carey on September 27, 2003, 01:33:00 PM
Quote
That was me. What a joke, recourse on a tape that shows children being abused. What kind of recourse? Money? What? Could you please explain that?
Come on, answer Anon. What kind of recouse could one have on a video that is released that shows children being abused?
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-27 10:34 ]
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2003, 02:22:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2003, 02:55:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-09-26 14:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"the video was not released by the owner. it was released by a self serving person that thought they had rights. take a break scary, it was better here without you. atleast it was productive. i hope the owner has some recourse."
Anon, you seem to know who released the video to Inside Edition. If it wasn't the "owner" but some self-serving individual, how did they get a copy of the video to give to Inside Edition?
Post by: Carey on September 28, 2003, 07:44:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-09-26 14:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"the video was not released by the owner. it was released by a self serving person that thought they had rights. take a break scary, it was better here without you. atleast it was productive. i hope the owner has some recourse."
Anon, you seem to know who released the video to Inside Edition. If it wasn't the "owner" but some self-serving individual, how did they get a copy of the video to give to Inside Edition?
Anon, how did they get a copy, since you seem to know so much?
Again, your statement about " the video was not released by the owner. it was released by a self serving person that thought they had rights," tell me who in this world has "rights" to a video that shows children being abused? What rights does anyone have to a video that shows children being abused. :wstupid:
Anon, how do you see releasing that video by the indvidual who released it to be "self-serving?" That person let the world know by releasing that video that there are evil people out there who will take children in for money and abuse them in an attempt to "straighten" them out. Information like that is not to be kept hidden. It should be given to all of the media. It should be broadcast over and over again.
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-28 16:50 ]
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2003, 11:59:00 PM
http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/perrymichael.htm (http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/perrymichael.htm)
Post by: Anonymous on September 29, 2003, 02:03:00 PM
"the video was not released by the owner. it was released by a self serving person that thought they had rights. take a break scary, it was better here without you. atleast it was productive. i hope the owner has some recourse."
Anon, you seem to know who released the video to Inside Edition. If it wasn't the "owner" but some self-serving individual, how did they get a copy of the video to give to Inside Edition?
Anon, how did they get a copy, since you seem to know so much?
Again, your statement about " the video was not released by the owner. it was released by a self serving person that thought they had rights," tell me who in this world has "rights" to a video that shows children being abused? What rights does anyone have to a video that shows children being abused.
Anon, how do you see releasing that video by the indvidual who released it to be "self-serving?" That person let the world know by releasing that video that there are evil people out there who will take children in for money and abuse them in an attempt to "straighten" them out. Information like that is not to be kept hidden. It should be given to all of the media. It should be broadcast over and over again.
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2003, 03:31:00 AM
:lol: he's so full of shit!
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2003, 09:44:00 PM
This kid is far from "full of shit". Hes most likely touched more lives then most people do in a lifetime. Success is what most people including myself see in him. Hes changed a horrible nightmare into a life changing good one. It takes a thousand voices for 1 story to be told. So wut if hes makin $$$$, it goes to show those who make false assumptions never got anywhere in life from the start. :tup: