Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Troll Control on August 14, 2009, 11:02:29 AM
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Ridge Creek School's website claims that it is academically accredited by SACS and GAC, but a search of those entities reveals that RCS is in fact not accredited by either agency.
It appears the blatant fraudulent advertising continues from Buccellato. Where would a false advertising complaint be properly made in the state of Georgia?
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It's true. I looked it up on both sites and it's nowhere to be found. Just another massive lie from ol' Lenny boy.
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Ridge Creek School's website claims that it is academically accredited by SACS and GAC, but a search of those entities reveals that RCS is in fact not accredited by either agency.
It appears the blatant fraudulent advertising continues from Buccellato. Where would a false advertising complaint be properly made in the state of Georgia?
I know this is crazy and useless but on the ORS web-site there is a complaint form. Otherwise just send an email to Carol Winstead, and Nina Edidin. I wouldn't doubt that the ORS is going to piggy back everything with Ridge Creek/Mountain Brook or whichever entity is left. On the ORS web-site, "Find A Facility" if you type in Ridge Creek, Inc. you will bring up RC reports, but curiously look at the top of the form...it does not say RIDGE CREEK, INC. it says Hidden Lake Academy, Inc. Otherwise, a complaint has to go Federal, to the FTC... If anyone wants to meet me in Gainesville to see Federal Attorney General Nahmias, let me know. We have enough, the State is dirty. You know where to find me.
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I know everyone is chomping at the bit to start finding something wrong with Ridge Creek School. One error I see here over and over again is the lack of follow through when searching for the truth. A quick scan of a web site doesn’t constitute a search in my opinion. I have seen many a profession deemed “working without a license” with their photo posted all over this site when if given a little more effort reveled that these professionals were in fact licensed in almost every case that I followed thru with and investigated.
Before making up your minds and wasting time on a ton of posts Give this a try:
Call (770) 429-0040 and ask for Elizabeth (Liz) Law at the Georgia office (of SACS) in Kennasaw. She is very nice and will answer all your questions or get back to you if she doesn’t have the answer at hand.
Web sites are not real time information and you need to understand the time frame of when they complete their updates before making your decision.
This is the same if you are looking to see if a professional is licensed in the state database or if a licensed has expired. If a professional completes a higher level of training and moves up then he/she would allow their old license to expire and then be relicensed within the new area. So a non thorough search may show up as a person is working under an “expired license” when this in fact not true.
Hope this save you some time and grief.
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Sort of like the time we proved that HLA had been operating without a license for eleven years?
Sure didnt seem like wasted effort.
Seriously, John, is there anything this industry could do that you would view as being a problem? Any law they could circumvent that might make you raise an eyebrow? I mean you've already established that when they murder kids you don't see it being an issue, but is there anything else that might upset you?
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Re: Call Liz at Sacs... They are another useless agency. We have been that route and last I heard years ago were that the SACS attorneys were looking into it. Prior to the lawsuit when are children attended HLA, the teachers were not all certified as marketed, they were teaching in fieds to which they had no degree and it was covered up. Teachers were cross utitilzed in different fields without contacting SACS for permission which was required. An entity can choose/request who reviews the schools for accreditation from SACS and the 4 people that reviewed the school during "our time" were Buccellato's friends, one his brother's employee from St. Francis. There was and is no science lab, there was no mobile lab purchased, which SACS itself states their must be for accreditation. At that time, SACS was told HLA brings in outside lab for biology and chemistry. A bold face lie. The 4 SACS surveyors went out to HLA, commiserated, were treated like royalty, never inspected anything and left. End of story. And yes, there is paper and electronic copy on this.
So, you can call anyone in the State of Georgia and you will get placated, they will do their dance, panic when you get off the phone and scramble to cover their asses..
Their accrediatation means nothing, they are a bunch of bureaucrats pushing more papers. Research? You have no clue. Research? Go have tea with Liz.
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This is the same song and dance routine that Shh gave years ago.
Someone would mention a question about licensure and she would start ranting and raving about accredidation. No one cared then anymore then they do now. Being properly licensed is the bigger deal.
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Someone should clue in Dysfunction Junction. He thinks accreditation is a big deal, he wrote the OP. So everyone can agree that there is no need for these places to be accredited?
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ORS only seems to care about this issue during election years. The fact that the status has already changed on the website would seem to suggest they already know what the parents don't. I guess what happens in the next two weeks will tell us if Buchi is planning on just moving all his few remaining eggs into the RC basket. Interesting that Hollowhead was telling parents that RC and HLA weren't owned by the same company. I think it's definitely worth giving BB&T a call over.
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Someone should clue in Dysfunction Junction. He thinks accreditation is a big deal, he wrote the OP. So everyone can agree that there is no need for these places to be accredited?
What an absurd idiot. He spends years saying everything RB says is a lie then as soon as he sees something useful he is holding up RB as wise, not to mention ascribing group agreement unilaterally as a blanket statement. TheWho, you are a fucking dope.
Anyway, RB happens to be right. Licensure is far more important than accreditation, however, claiming to be accredited when you're not is called "fraud" and many of these places do it, like HLA did and like the new HLA clone does. If it's so unnecessary, TheWho, then why do they tout it as a selling point?
And I guess we can all agree that The Who thinks fraud is just fine and not a problem of any kind.
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If you read back thru the thread you will see that DJ was making a big deal about Ridge Creek school not showing up on the SACS web site as being accredited and jumped to the conclusion that the place wasn’t accredited (like many times before). When I stated that the web site may not be current and to call Liz Law for details all of a sudden she became the focus of the attacks and stating how useless the SACS org is Ha,Ha,Ha… so you see the truth isn’t what is being pursued here. No one really cares if they are accredited or not as long as they can find something to make the place look bad. If Ridge Creek was licensed then everyone would be attacking the poor person answering the phone at the licensing bureau. If they are accredited then its not a big deal if they are not accredited then it is an outrage!!!
You don’t see the irony because you are immersed in the mayhem. But from this side it is Funny to watch.
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So then the question remains. Is RC properly licensed? Are they meeting their accrededation standards? Are they accredited at all?
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You are wrong John Reuben. It is an unethical system that was implemented by SACS/SACS CASI in procuring surveyors and their findings at the facilities which is faulty. It is not ethical to allow facilities up for accreditation to choose friends, colleagues, employees or any individual that could benefit financially or otherwise as the facility surveyors. It is not objective, therefore not reliable, not to mention preposterous. The 4 goons (surveyors) that came out were Buccellato's 'friend's and one female employee of his brother at St. Francis and yes, I have their names, paper and elecronic copy. According to staff interviews and emails, the SACS surveyors did not even tour the facility, but stayed in the office having a wonderful time being placated. The surveyor deck was always stacked in Buccellato's favor. "Wined and dined and maybe if we keep them in the office area, they won't notice there is no science lab "- a running joke amongst the staff. Buccellato chose his accreditation team, whether SACS/CASI has changed the way surveyors are assigned, with no accomodation to the facility requests for certain surveyors in 2009 lies with them. Yes, I was told SACS attorney's were looking into the complaints.. Three years later, they must be still looking. That is what transpired. That is why to the lot of us, SACS/CASI accreditation means nothing and with good reason. You did not deal with SACS, their song and dance like I did, along with several other parents over the years. Like the ORS, it was not the underlings in these agencies, they did their job. It was the upper echelon of these agencies that dug their heads in the sand to protect themselves as this all went down on their watch. It was also the fear of Buccellato's wrath and arm that extends far beyond Dahlonega. As I have stated before, I stand by everything that was in the class action suit, as it was just a lone pit of a cherry, beside hundreds of others not yet bloomed. Buccellato is poison personified, period; who he screwed on the way up, he will see on the way down. You are out of your league regarding HLA and Buccellato. You are part of an estimated 50-60 billion dollar industry that exploits children and their families in distress, novices that are preyed upon. We are no longer novices John. You chose to align yourself with unethical people in this horrific industry, that is your cross to carry not ours. Every time you make a deposit at the bank, along with all the rest of your low life cronies, you are depositing blood money.
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Chris Grimwwod, now gone was listed as the Program Director, with Hollowhead, now gone, as the Exec. Director. Doesn't make sense to FAX to Human Resource Director that is no longer there. http://natwc.org/job-postings/southeast-job-postings/ (http://natwc.org/job-postings/southeast-job-postings/)
RIDGE CREEK
Program Director
RIDGE CREEK, an outdoor therapeutic 26 day program for 13-17 year old oppositional adolescents in North Georgia, approximately one hour north of Atlanta, is now accepting applications for Program Director. Year-round, Full-Time position. Applicant should have bachelor degree or above and have experience supervising at least 20 staff in an outdoor setting. Live-in not required for this position. Salary commensurate with candidate’s qualifications and experience. Full Benefits package.
FAX/mail/e-mail cover letter and resume/cv: Human Resources Director, Ridge Creek, 830 Hidden Lake Rd., Dahlonega, GA 30533, FAX (706) 864-9109.
e-mail:[email protected]
www.ridgecreek.org (http://www.ridgecreek.org)
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It is an unethical system that was implemented by SACS/SACS CASI in procuring surveyors and their findings at the facilities which is faulty. It is not ethical to allow facilities up for accreditation to choose friends, colleagues, employees or any individual that could benefit financially or otherwise as the facility surveyors.
I am not familiar with SACS at all, actually. If they are corrupt and useless then shouldn’t they be the focus? The schools being accredited by them should not be admonished because the accreditation has no teeth. It weakens your position, in my opinion, when schools are attacked for not being accredited and schools are being attacked for being accredited, still other schools are being attacked because the accrediting agency failed to update their web site or because the agency itself is faulty. I think you would admit if HLA wasn’t accredited at all then many posters (maybe yourself) would attack them for not utilizing an admitted faulty agency. It just makes the argument look weak when you attack a school because of a federal agency which is forced upon them.
You are part of an estimated 50-60 billion dollar industry that exploits children and their families in distress, novices that are preyed upon. We are no longer novices John. You chose to align yourself with unethical people in this horrific industry, that is your cross to carry not ours. Every time you make a deposit at the bank, along with all the rest of your low life cronies, you are depositing blood money.
Not sure who you have been listening to but I dont work for the industry, never have. I am a program parent. A few years ago I was named Alan, then someone thought I was some guy named Bill on the board of NATSAP, a few months ago I was Peter and then just recently they think I am this guy John Reuben an EdCon. I am not on the side of HLA or Ridge Creek School. It appears that way to some because I sometimes take the side of the devils advocate in discussions because there is no one here typically to fill that roll, but I have never recommended the schools.
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Who, mind your own business. Nobody here cares what you think or what you say. You probably should know that by now.
As far as accreditation is concerned HLA uses SACS because they have the inside skinny. Len's people work for SACS and rubber stamp whatever shithole he is currently pimping. SACS is weak and ineffective and breaks their own rules regularly for Len. Len is corrupt and seeks out SACS because he knows he can get what he wants due to their corruption. It reflects poorly on both Len and SACS and whatever school gets the B.S. accreditation. The ones who get hurt, as usual, are the kids.
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Who, mind your own business. Nobody here cares what you think or what you say. You probably should know that by now.
What I do know is that you would like to control the thoughts and speech here so that only your own opinions are expressed. Trying to intimidate people into thinking the way you do or suppress peoples thoughts or censure people isnt going to work on this forum. People should be able to express their opinions openly, even yours.
I thought that was one of the things everyone here is fighting for.
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:beat: :beat: :beat: :beat: :beat:
Come on, man. You're not fighting for anything. Give it a rest. You wouldn't know what a fight was, silver spoon. I read somewhere that you dodged the draft, too. Not much of a fighter I guess.
And I do agree with the previous poster. The only person who cares about what you think or say is you. That's it. Back to the garbage depot with you!
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:beat: :beat: :beat: :beat: :beat:
Come on, man. You're not fighting for anything. Give it a rest. You wouldn't know what a fight was, silver spoon. I read somewhere that you dodged the draft, too. Not much of a fighter I guess.
And I do agree with the previous poster. The only person who cares about what you think or say is you. That's it. Back to the garbage depot with you!
So you attack people personally because of their opinion and rely on hearsay to load on more attacks. How could anyone know if another person avoided the draft or not if they dont even know them? and how does that relate to accreditation of HLA? You should be smarter than that DJ especially coming from someone who proclaims himself to be in the mental health profession. Why not support what you believe to be true by staying on the topic at hand and focusing on a healthy debate instead of resorting to derailing yet another thread with personal attacks because you disagree with me or lack a valid argument?
We were talking about SACS and HLA prior to the derailment if you are interested in contributing. Jill had indicated that the SACS agency was useless and in bed with HLA thereby rendering their accreditation worthless... my argument was whether that is HLA's fault or SACS?
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Another way to look at it is if you had a local Department of motor Vehicles which was not properly testing our drivers prior to licensing them. The crime would be on the DMV not the drivers. The ones that got their license under those people may be good drivers or they may be bad drivers. We wouldn’t know unless they were retested under the proper procedures.
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...lack a valid argument...
This describes every one of your "arguments." Why wonder why nobody wants to have a "dialog" with you? The reason is because you never make a valid argu,ment and that wears thin after a few weeks. You've been an "invalid" here for over five years, bro. Nobody wants to hear your stupid "people are like cars" nonsense anymore. This is why you get short shrift.
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...lack a valid argument...
This describes every one of your "arguments." Why wonder why nobody wants to have a "dialog" with you? The reason is because you never make a valid argu,ment and that wears thin after a few weeks. You've been an "invalid" here for over five years, bro. Nobody wants to hear your stupid "people are like cars" nonsense anymore. This is why you get short shrift.
One option is to just skip over my posts instead of derailing the thread with your personal opinions and attacks on other people. If I took the time to comment on everyone that I disagreed with or thought their ideas were useless my post count would be way over 50,000. Use a little restraint and just accept that there are going to be some people that you will never agree with and just dont listen to them... it works for me.
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...my post count would be way over 50,000.
Would be? It is. I wonder why you can't take your own advice and just "skip over" my posts? See, douchebag, you do all the things you tell others not to do. These mixed messages and "Do as I say not as I do" is likely what fucked up your kids and this is why nobody here takes you seriously.
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Would be? It is. I wonder why you can't take your own advice and just "skip over" my posts? See, douchebag, you do all the things you tell others not to do. These mixed messages and "Do as I say not as I do" is likely what fucked up your kids and this is why nobody here takes you seriously.
Pleeease, take it to another thread and quit trolling this one.
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Robert - This thread is really important..please ignore the jackass.
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Being a little self depreciating today John? Eh, that's alright, its good to see you can acknowledge the fact that you are a jackass.
Now onto something that matters being discussed with someone who is capable of rationale thought.
Looking at the RC website I thought this was an interesting point on their FAQ's:
Is RIDGE CREEK licensed or accredited?
RIDGE CREEK is licensed with the State of Georgia Department of Human Resources as an
outdoor therapeutic camp.
That licensure is a little suspect to say the least, but they're ignoring part of their own question. Licensed or accredidted, like it's a choice between the two? Shouldnt both be done without question. It's a little more then the choice between paper or plastic.
So then the question remains, are they accredidted at all, and is anything but the x-ray machine actually licensed?
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Robert - This thread is really important..please ignore the jackass.
Being a little self depreciating today John? Eh, that's alright, its good to see you can acknowledge the fact that you are a jackass.
Now onto something that matters being discussed with someone who is capable of rationale thought.
RB, why do you have to continue to hijack the discussion with your own personal vendetta? Please take it to the depot to started. Like I said this is important.
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Yes, John, we all know that, hence why it would be best if you not muck up the conversation. You've got your own litter box just for that. Go have fun for awhile, I'll come see you when I'm wanting some comic relief.
Again focusing on real issues. Reading over the website I found these other nuggets I thought to be very interesting:
Every student is strip-searched for the safety
of the program (body cavity searches are not conducted).
RIDGE CREEK does not believe in depriving students of meals. We recognize that food
deprivation could lead to serious injury or illness and that diet and nutrition are important for
maintaining health. Therefore, we feed our students three meals, and two snacks a day. Your
child will eat a combination of hot and cold meals that constitute a nutritionally balanced diet of
approximately 3,000-5,000 calories per day
On the one hand they suddenly feel like being honest, and on the other they're criticizing their own record without acknowleding it. I guess fornits has an effect afterall.
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Doesn't make sense to FAX to Human Resource Director that is no longer there.
I wouldn’t worry about the faxes getting through to the right person, this is fairly standard. They will continue to utilize the same fax number and someone will collect the faxes and send them to whoever is doing the hiring for the position. The cover letters and resumes will get to the right person. The letters should still be addressed to the "Human Resource Director" as the person doing the hiring will also being wearing this hat (albeit even if it is temporary).
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Yes, John, we all know that, hence why it would be best if you not muck up the conversation. You've got your own litter box just for that. Go have fun for awhile, I'll come see you when I'm wanting some comic relief.
I am not, John, RB. Please take your personal attacks elsewhere?
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Then by all means John, don't answer the question. You don't have anything of value to add anyway, so again, please don't muck up the conversation. We're interested in the status of RC, not your usual games.
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Any word back from SACS or Keith and the gang?
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I know everyone is chomping at the bit to start finding something wrong with Ridge Creek School. One error I see here over and over again is the lack of follow through when searching for the truth. A quick scan of a web site doesn’t constitute a search in my opinion. I have seen many a profession deemed “working without a license” with their photo posted all over this site when if given a little more effort reveled that these professionals were in fact licensed in almost every case that I followed thru with and investigated.
Before making up your minds and wasting time on a ton of posts Give this a try:
Call (770) 429-0040 and ask for Elizabeth (Liz) Law at the Georgia office (of SACS) in Kennasaw. She is very nice and will answer all your questions or get back to you if she doesn’t have the answer at hand.
Web sites are not real time information and you need to understand the time frame of when they complete their updates before making your decision.
This is the same if you are looking to see if a professional is licensed in the state database or if a licensed has expired. If a professional completes a higher level of training and moves up then he/she would allow their old license to expire and then be relicensed within the new area. So a non thorough search may show up as a person is working under an “expired license” when this in fact not true.
Hope this save you some time and grief.
THe WHO absolutely said SACS ACCREDITATION.
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I know everyone is chomping at the bit to start finding something wrong with Ridge Creek School. One error I see here over and over again is the lack of follow through when searching for the truth. A quick scan of a web site doesn’t constitute a search in my opinion. I have seen many a profession deemed “working without a license” with their photo posted all over this site when if given a little more effort reveled that these professionals were in fact licensed in almost every case that I followed thru with and investigated.
Before making up your minds and wasting time on a ton of posts Give this a try:
Call (770) 429-0040 and ask for Elizabeth (Liz) Law at the Georgia office (of SACS) in Kennasaw. She is very nice and will answer all your questions or get back to you if she doesn’t have the answer at hand.
Web sites are not real time information and you need to understand the time frame of when they complete their updates before making your decision.
This is the same if you are looking to see if a professional is licensed in the state database or if a licensed has expired. If a professional completes a higher level of training and moves up then he/she would allow their old license to expire and then be relicensed within the new area. So a non thorough search may show up as a person is working under an “expired license” when this in fact not true.
Hope this save you some time and grief.
THe WHO absolutely said SACS ACCREDITATION.
I read thru it twice and it doesnt say that they were accredited. Come on, Bruce, you look like a fool. Thewho was providing the name and person to contact so you could get you facts straight. A lesson you seem to need to learn over and over again.
Another thing is you should always link to the original just in case there is any question.
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RB just give it up and move on. Thewho was right. You should have provided links to support yourself.
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It amazes me still that despite a complete and total lack of evidence you still assume I guest post. No basis whatsoever. Yet despite that fact you chide others for holding you accountable or not providing more evidence than you ever do. John, I havent been on here at all today, yet you still somehow continue to not only cheer yourself on, but attack yourself just so you can do so. In the end all you accomplish is ensuring that you look like an idiot.
You're so hung up on this accrededation issue, why don't you email them and post what you find on here. You seem to already know the people over there anyway. That would settle that question, albeit licensure still remains an unanswered and more important question.
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It amazes me still that despite a complete and total lack of evidence you still assume I guest post. No basis whatsoever. Yet despite that fact you chide others for holding you accountable or not providing more evidence than you ever do. John, I havent been on here at all today, yet you still somehow continue to not only cheer yourself on, but attack yourself just so you can do so. In the end all you accomplish is ensuring that you look like an idiot.
You're so hung up on this accrededation issue, why don't you email them and post what you find on here. You seem to already know the people over there anyway. That would settle that question, albeit licensure still remains an unanswered and more important question.
Sorry, been gone all day. It looks like you have been talking to someone pretending to be me. If you logged in more often it would be easier to keep track of your own posts. But back on topic, I posted a link a few times that indicated that Ridge Creek has earned and acquired accreditation despite denials. If you read the links I provided it would save embarrassment on your end. I will pull that link up again for you and anyone else that missed it. Try to read back thru the thread next time. It may save you some time.
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It would have been far easier to ask him to call the GAC acknowledging right off that Ridge Creek School was now accredited by GAC. Instead you stated to call SACS, which infers SACS accreditation. Can we move on, this is ridiculous.
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It would have been far easier to ask him to call the GAC acknowledging right off that Ridge Creek School was now accredited by GAC. Instead you stated to call SACS, which infers SACS accreditation. Can we move on, this is ridiculous.
Your right, guest 9, and maybe I should have done that and appologize if I seemed like I side tracked at all, but if I remember correctly the conversation had gone in the directions of the ORS and SACS (I may be wrong). So I recommended calling them first before concluding that they were not accredited by them and posted the contact information. I jumped in at that point because Dysfunction Junction typically makes wide sweeping judgements without first looking at the facts which raises a red flag with me. This is a hallmark of his that he shared with XXXXXXX (who was an admin here) and Bruce which in my opinion went a long way in discrediting fornits as a source of reliable information. As an ex employee DJ has such a large axe to grind with HLA that he hasnt been able to move along with his career and it often clouds his judgment, to the detriment of his own and fornits credibility.
There are countless times where doctors were named to be unlicensed and teachers to outed as unlicensed where I spent a few extra hours investigating to find that they were in fact licensed. So you just need to be careful with any information from these people especially. Just ask for a link or back up documentation of some sort before believing the information, is what I would suggest, and also before making up your own mind.
Posters like Jill Ryan for example appears to be willing to call it the way it is and deals with facts in her fight against HLA here on fornits.
Its best to read a little here and get to know the various people posting and what is driving them before you place your trust in what they say. Then ask yourself: “Are they seeking the truth or just out to discredit a program or the people running it?”
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I'm actually always logged in as it saves me the trouble. You might try it someday. Again though you're confused, look to the comments made by RobertBruce, as those are the only ones I've made regarding this or any other topic in the past year (minus of course the verification guest post from the other week. When are you going to get on that by the way?). If you have questions or comments about those posts, by all means bring them to my attention, otherwise I suggest directing your comments towards the people who actually made them John. This will save you the trouble of speaking to the wrong person and continuing to look stupid.
Are there any comments you can point to that you know I've made that definitively state what RC is or is not accreditted/licensed as?
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I'm actually always logged in as it saves me the trouble. You might try it someday. Again though you're confused, look to the comments made by RobertBruce, as those are the only ones I've made regarding this or any other topic in the past year (minus of course the verification guest post from the other week. When are you going to get on that by the way?). If you have questions or comments about those posts, by all means bring them to my attention, otherwise I suggest directing your comments towards the people who actually made them John. This will save you the trouble of speaking to the wrong person and continuing to look stupid.
Are there any comments you can point to that you know I've made that definitively state what RC is or is not accreditted/licensed as?
RB, I Redirected this post in an effort to keep the discussion on topic.
Redirect (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=342409&sid=d2928433cf0ed024a319bbbfa1b42a23&sid=d2928433cf0ed024a319bbbfa1b42a23#p342409)
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"There are countless times where doctors were named to be unlicensed and teachers to outed as unlicensed where I spent a few extra hours investigating to find that they were in fact licensed".
Covering the years prior to and through 2006, HLA adverised licensed counselors and certified teachers, which was not the case. As it was only a private school with special purpose, operating under the radar, they got away with it, until we contacted the agencies and forced licensing. Had HLA not advertised "licensed and certified" and as a "Therapeutic School" along with all the complaints over the years, they would still be in business. The State confirmed the majority of teachers were not certified; only Joe Stapp, Buccellato and Chris Allen were licensed counselors. Later on Chris Grimwood is hired but he cannot be licensed as "Farington Diploma Mill" is not accepted by the State of Georgia. Dr. Sisk was not a doctor, but that was before our time and Clayton Erickson was no longer an M.D. All facts.. Nothing stated does not have basis and everything I have stated can be backed up by electronic or paper copy.
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"There are countless times where doctors were named to be unlicensed and teachers to outed as unlicensed where I spent a few extra hours investigating to find that they were in fact licensed".
Covering the years prior to and through 2006, HLA adverised licensed counselors and certified teachers, which was not the case. As it was only a private school with special purpose, operating under the radar, they got away with it, until we contacted the agencies and forced licensing. Had HLA not advertised "licensed and certified" and as a "Therapeutic School" along with all the complaints over the years, they would still be in business. The State confirmed the majority of teachers were not certified; only Joe Stapp, Buccellato and Chris Allen were licensed counselors. Later on Chris Grimwood is hired but he cannot be licensed as "Farington Diploma Mill" is not accepted by the State of Georgia. Dr. Sisk was not a doctor, but that was before our time and Clayton Erickson was no longer an M.D. All facts.. Nothing stated does not have basis and everything I have stated can be backed up by electronic or paper copy.
I wasnt talking about you, Jill. This was before your time here on fronits.
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He's refering to ASR, actually well after Jill began posting here. ASR was doing (probably thanks to John's good friend, murderer Rudy Bentz) the same thing HLA did. Claiming everyone was certified when across the board when it turned out only a single staff member was actually licensed as they claimed to be, and he was apparently never there. John didnt prove any arguments that day, he just stuck his head in the sand again and denied the truth.
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It's like Ringley Brothers re-naming themselves Acme Circus Company - it's still the same group of clowns putting on a show.
Ridge Creek School should not be allowed to operate and rip off more parents; but most important is the fact that these kids are NOT getting the help or treatment they require.
The "counselors" and "teachers" are not licensed. You can look this information up on Georgia's web page, which is what we did and subsequently Charles sent out an email to the parents listing all the staffs' qualifications. It was done in response to the fact that we exposed what an absolute sham the place was and is. I suppose this was Bucci's brilliant idea of damage control. The funny part is that the email only served to show we were correct.
In answer to this question: Then ask yourself: “Are they seeking the truth or just out to discredit a program or the people running it?”
The people running the problem LIED to us, thereby discrediting the program and the people running it by THEIR actions. When we sought the truth we were lied to even further. It wasn't until we confronted them with the TRUTH did we realized just how deep and calculated all the lies were. We sought the truth, but we had every right to expect that from the beginning. We're not attempting to discredit the people running the program and/or the program - again, they did that themselves. Our goal is to make sure no other child and parent(s) have to go through the absolute Hell and lies we went through. We want the truth to remain the truth. Bucci had so many years and opportunities to do the right thing, but he thumbed his nose at it everytime. He won't change, he hasn't changed, and he's never once apologized for what he's done. Unless you were there, you wouldn't understand and that's why people on here who have lived through it are so determined not to allow it to continue. Enough is enough.
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Sorry, meant to say "The people running the program LIED to us,"
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He's refering to ASR, actually well after Jill began posting here. ASR was doing (probably thanks to John's good friend, murderer Rudy Bentz) the same thing HLA did. Claiming everyone was certified when across the board when it turned out only a single staff member was actually licensed as they claimed to be, and he was apparently never there. John didnt prove any arguments that day, he just stuck his head in the sand again and denied the truth.
Well lets look recently:
Dysfunction Junction started this thread with the comment:
"Ridge Creek School's website claims that it is academically accredited by SACS and GAC, but a search of those entities reveals that RCS is in fact not accredited by either agency.
It appears the blatant fraudulent advertising continues from Buccellato. Where would a false advertising complaint be properly made in the state of Georgia?"
So DJ was trying to make everyone believe that he investigated Ridge Creek School and found them to be unaccredited (wanted to file petitions and complaints to the state to make it look like he really looked into it) and if I had not challenged that (like I have done many times before) everyone would have assumed that they were not accredited. But the red flags go up every time DJ makes a comment like this and almost every time he is proven to be wrong so finally the truth comes out and wala!!! We find out that Ridge Creek is Accredited and once again we need to dig for the truth to overturn a baseless smear campaign by DJ.
Why not fight agianst these places using the truth and facts? Do you have such little to go on that you need to fabicate stories to attack these places?
Here is a link to facts : (this is how it is done, Bruce)
Link (http://http://www.coe.uga.edu/gac/members/EASP_fy2010.pdf)
Ridge Creek/Mountain Brook Academy ACC 7-12 2011
830 Hidden Lake Road
Dahlonega, Georgia 30533
706-867-1720[/quote][/quote]
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It may be before my time on Fornits to which you are referring , however, our research went back to the inception of HLA to seek the truth and there was a clear pattern of unlicensed counselors, uncertified teachers, two unlicensed doctors, etc. which was marketed from HLA's beginning. There were a handful throughout the years, but that was about it.
In the Congressional record, working with the GAO, submitting ALL my documents to back up my statements, you will find starting at page 86 Hidden Lake Academy... other families submitted for Congressional review. The GAO requested report in letter form to Congressman Miller and the Committee, this is my testimony re: Hidden Lake Academy. Again, I stand by my statements, under oath.
[PDF] CHILD ABUSE AND DECEPTIVE MARKETING BY RESIDENTIAL PROGRAMS FOR ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
JILL OHANESIAN-RYAN,. Jupiter, FL. Plano, TX, April 28, 2008. Hon. GEORGE MILLER, Chairman,. Committee on Education and Labor, Rayburn House Office Building ...
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG.../CH ... 041839.pdf (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG.../CHRG-110hhrg11041839.pdf)
All documentation was submitted ahead of time to the GAO agents and nothing, repeat nothing, was left out. The rest of it went to the IRS.
Now, let me tell you this, whomever you are, that hides behind The Who, John Reuben and various other names.
No children should be subjected to what transpired at HLA... or on the premises. No owner of any academy or spouse that carries themselves the way Buccellato and Spooner did, belong on the premises of any school. Their personal life is their own, but when 'it' starts hopping over to sexually accosting staff(5 that we know of), pay-offs out of school funds or the now defunct Chapel Fund for Buccellato's indiscretions, bragging of $1,000. male hookers on the premises(alleged by staff, emails, letters) that is a huge problem. "Quirk and Quirk" handled the settlements(payoffs) as they did all his dirty work. Could everyone be lying? Understanding that they could have been called for a deposition with what they turned over, it is highly unlikely. Checks and bank statements don't lie. Do I know their names? Yes. Have I spoken with these people? Two of the victims, numerous staff in areas that could confirm the settlements. All staff stated they would confirm by subpeona, not just in this area, but all other areas, but they feared him and felt they needed to protect their families. The same fear was related to the GAO agents.
Again,the GAO did interview former staff, families confirming what was alleged in the lawsuit and beyond. To quote one agent, "I have handcuffs burning a hole in my pocket". Now again, whether the GAO made recommendations to the justice department, they will not disclose.
Any 'ace' that was sent them, will not be disclosed here either to protect the families.
As I have stated before, where HLA and Buccellato are concerned, you are out of your league and I state this with no disrespect. It is more important that we move forward to assure this does not happen again. As long as I breathe, I will be there watching, as I stated before, "For the Children to Come".
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Jill, Like Bruce said it wasnt just HLA it was other programs like ASR etc..... A prime example was the original post which started this thread . All I am saying is be careful what is stated and ask for and check the links and facts that are provided. Dont just take people word for it if they say "so and so" is unlicensed or unaccredited.
Check the facts of what these people are telling and dont take them at face value.
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As I have stated before, where HLA and Buccellato are concerned, you are out of your league and I state this with no disrespect. It is more important that we move forward to assure this does not happen again. As long as I breathe, I will be there watching, as I stated before, "For the Children to Come".
The original post, the inception of this thread, was based on a lie intended to deceive the readers we have all seen that. When you were pursuing the truth about HLA and their lawyers told you that you were out of your league (with no disrespect) would you have backed off? Do you expect the readers to accept deception and lies here on fornits? Should I run away and not continue to expose the truth after you tell me I am out of my league?
I think it is great to move forward with your information but if you are going to base it on lies and deceit (or turn a blind eye towards them) then I cannot agree with you and you are no better than HLA and the lawyers they hired. Just be careful that in your pursuit and “As long as you breathe” you dont become one of them.
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You have routinely spouted off over the year how HLA was above reproach and how nothing was amiss there. You rambled on and on about how HLA would bounce back from this current down turn, and emerge stronger. Now like Buchi you're trying to put all your eggs (future referals/kick backs) into RC. I've yet to contact or even view the GAO or SACS regarding verification for the accredidation, so at this point I do not know what the situation is. I do however know that DJ has a great deal more credibility than you have, and you are a known liar. That being the case I'll hold off until I can verify the information for myself and move forward from there. In the meantime I wonder why proper licensure hasnt been an issue for you as it still remains a greater issue than accredidation. Furthermore I've yet to hear an explination as to how Mountain Brook can be accredited since it does not actually exist.
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I've yet to contact or even view the GAO or SACS regarding verification for the accredidation, so at this point I do not know what the situation is. I do however know that DJ has a great deal more credibility than you have, and you are a known liar. That being the case I'll hold off until I can verify the information for myself and move forward from there.
Here it is, I'll save you a phone call.
Link (http://http://www.coe.uga.edu/gac/members/EASP_fy2010.pdf)
DJ never looked into it.......period.
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As I have stated before, where HLA and Buccellato are concerned, you are out of your league and I state this with no disrespect. It is more important that we move forward to assure this does not happen again. As long as I breathe, I will be there watching, as I stated before, "For the Children to Come".
The original post, the inception of this thread, was based on a lie intended to deceive the readers we have all seen that. When you were pursuing the truth about HLA and their lawyers told you that you were out of your league (with no disrespect) would you have backed off? Do you expect the readers to accept deception and lies here on fornits? Should I run away and not continue to expose the truth after you tell me I am out of my league?
I think it is great to move forward with your information but if you are going to base it on lies and deceit (or turn a blind eye towards them) then I cannot agree with you and you are no better than HLA and the lawyers they hired. Just be careful that in your pursuit and “As long as you breathe” you dont become one of them.
I don't know who you are but don't you EVER fucking compare Jill to HLA and their scumbag attornyes. YOU have no idea what Jill has sacrificed over the past several years in pursuit of the truth. Jill has never based anything on lies and/or deceit.
Rarely do I get this pissed, but you have crossed the line.
What is your deal on here anyway? Do you care about the kids or is your goal just to discredit the people who post on here for your own personal gain? Have you been hired by Bucci to try to discredit the posters on Fornits? Are you an investor in Ridge Creek? Answer the questions if you're so into the "truth" as you state.
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I don't know who you are but don't you EVER fucking compare Jill to HLA and their scumbag attornyes. YOU have no idea what Jill has sacrificed over the past several years in pursuit of the truth. Jill has never based anything on lies and/or deceit.
Guest99, sorry your pissed....but that is exactly my point. She would not be disuaded by the lawyers telling her she was out of her league. So why should I not pursue the truth? No one is comparing her to HLA or their lawyers.
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I don't know who you are but don't you EVER fucking compare Jill to HLA and their scumbag attornyes. YOU have no idea what Jill has sacrificed over the past several years in pursuit of the truth. Jill has never based anything on lies and/or deceit.
Guest99, sorry your pissed....but that is exactly my point. She would not be disuaded by the lawyers telling her she was out of her league. So why should I not pursue the truth? No one is comparing her to HLA or their lawyers.
You did compare her to HLA and her attorneys. Perhaps you made a mistake in your choice of words. Don't do it again.
You should pursue the truth. So again, while we're on the subject of truth please truthfully answer the questions that were posed to you. If you choose or don't choose to answer the questions it will speak volumes on your motive.
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What is your deal on here anyway? Do you care about the kids or is your goal just to discredit the people who post on here for your own personal gain?
I care about getting murderers, thieves and rapists off the street, but I dont believe in unlawful wiretaps or searching a person’s premises without a warrant to achieve that goal. I care about the kids and believe many programs scam parents and accept kids for the wrong reasons but I dont believe in making up lies in pursuant to achieve damaging a programs’ reputation or the people who work there. They deserve the same chance as you and I do to defend ourselves and should be held accountable for what they do. But it should be done honestly.
Have you been hired by Bucci to try to discredit the posters on Fornits?
No
Are you an investor in Ridge Creek?
No, I believe it is privately owned
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What is your deal on here anyway? Do you care about the kids or is your goal just to discredit the people who post on here for your own personal gain?
I care about getting murderers, thieves and rapists off the street, but I dont believe in unlawful wiretaps or searching a person’s premises without a warrant to achieve that goal. I care about the kids and believe many programs scam parents and accept kids for the wrong reasons but I dont believe in making up lies in pursuant to achieve damaging a programs’ reputation or the people who work there. They deserve the same chance as you and I do to defend ourselves and should be held accountable for what they do. But it should be done honestly.
Have you been hired by Bucci to try to discredit the posters on Fornits?
No
Are you an investor in Ridge Creek?
No, I believe it is privately owned
C'mon - A place can be privately owned with an investor(s).
Some more questions: Are you an Educational Consultant? Are you working with a group to send kids to Ridge Creek? Are you a marketer for Therapeutic-type boarding schools?
I'm sorry but your reasoning doesn't make sense. What does makes sense is that you have a vested interest in promoting these types of schools.
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Remember the good old days when Quirk and Quirk used to send letters trying to indimidate people to prevent them from Posting on Fornits?
"You falsely stated that Charles Cates is a monkey"? Holy Crap! That's the best they had??? :roflmao:
http://www.123people.com/ext/frm?ti=per ... wrt_id=257 (http://www.123people.com/ext/frm?ti=person%20finder&search_term=leonard%20buccellato&search_country=US&st=person%20finder&target_url=http%3A%2F%2Flrd.yahooapis.com%2F_ylc%3DX3oDMTVnZ2EyNXRqBF9TAzIwMjMxNTI3MDIEYXBwaWQDc1k3Wlo2clYzNEhSZm5ZdGVmcmkzRUx4VG5makpERG5QOWVKV1NGSkJHcTJ1V1dFa0xVdm5IYnNBeUNyVkd5Y2REVElUX2tlBGNsaWVudANib3NzBHNlcnZpY2UDQk9TUwRzbGsDdGl0bGUEc3JjcHZpZANmc21Ra0dLSWNyclQ0ZlJ3YmtJMVdOdF9XODV4M2txUUpQSUFDZ1dT%2FSIG%3D11esmblk4%2F**http%253A%2F%2Ffornits.com%2Fdchfans%2FJoeFarrell.doc§ion=document&wrt_id=257)
QUIRK & QUIRK, P.C.
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
450 BUCKHEAD CENTRE
2964 PEACHTREE ROAD, N.W.
ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30305-4903
Telephone Number
(404) 237-5595
JOSEPH P. FARRELL Facsimile Number
E-Mail Address: [email protected] (404) 237-7996
January 17, 2006
********
c/o ********
************
************
********
c/o ********
************
************
Re: Hidden Lake Academy. Inc. (the “School”)
Dear Mr. *******:
This Firm represents Hidden Lake Academy. It has come to our attention that derogatory remarks have emanated from you regarding the School, its students and its staff In postings on the ww.fornits.com website, you falsely state that Bill Gray is an embezzler and an inbred and make perverted comments regarding his ex-wife and him personally. You also falsely state that Charles Cates is a monkey and implied that he made statements to your father just so that you would not be withdrawn from HLA. You make sick and perverse comments about Dr. Leonard Buccellato in addition to false and untrue statements about Hidden Lake Academy itself These statements represent just a few of the untrue and derogatory remarks you have made regarding the School, its students and its employees.
Those untrue remarks could potentially negatively affect the School’s work with its students and employees, thereby interfering with the business of Hidden Lake Academy. If you continue to make these kinds of remarks, the School will consider appropriate legal action including possible claims of libel and defamation. We demand that you immediately cease and desist making further negative and untrue comments about Hidden Lake Academy and any of its staff or employees. We also demand that you retract the remarks you have made in the forum. in which they were made.
S.
LL
P.
PLEASE GOVERN YOURSELF ACCORDINGLY.
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It's like Ringley Brothers re-naming themselves Acme Circus Company - it's still the same group of clowns putting on a show.
Ridge Creek School should not be allowed to operate and rip off more parents; but most important is the fact that these kids are NOT getting the help or treatment they require.
The "counselors" and "teachers" are not licensed. You can look this information up on Georgia's web page, which is what we did and subsequently Charles sent out an email to the parents listing all the staffs' qualifications. It was done in response to the fact that we exposed what an absolute sham the place was and is. I suppose this was Bucci's brilliant idea of damage control. The funny part is that the email only served to show we were correct.
In answer to this question: Then ask yourself: “Are they seeking the truth or just out to discredit a program or the people running it?”
The people running the problem LIED to us, thereby discrediting the program and the people running it by THEIR actions. When we sought the truth we were lied to even further. It wasn't until we confronted them with the TRUTH did we realized just how deep and calculated all the lies were. We sought the truth, but we had every right to expect that from the beginning. We're not attempting to discredit the people running the program and/or the program - again, they did that themselves. Our goal is to make sure no other child and parent(s) have to go through the absolute Hell and lies we went through. We want the truth to remain the truth. Bucci had so many years and opportunities to do the right thing, but he thumbed his nose at it everytime. He won't change, he hasn't changed, and he's never once apologized for what he's done. Unless you were there, you wouldn't understand and that's why people on here who have lived through it are so determined not to allow it to continue. Enough is enough.
Boy was 99 on the mark...circus indeed! search.php?fid (http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?fid)[]=41
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C'mon - A place can be privately owned with an investor(s).
True, but I am not one of them.
Some more questions:
Are you an Educational Consultant?
No
Are you working with a group to send kids to Ridge Creek?
No
Are you a marketer for Therapeutic-type boarding schools?
No
I'm sorry but your reasoning doesn't make sense. What does makes sense is that you have a vested interest in promoting these types of schools.
I have never profited from this industry.
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I thought Cates was on loan from the Atlanta zoo. Damn! Another lie!
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I care about getting murderers, thieves and rapists off the street, but I dont believe in unlawful wiretaps or searching a person’s premises without a warrant to achieve that goal. I care about the kids and believe many programs scam parents and accept kids for the wrong reasons but I dont believe in making up lies in pursuant to achieve damaging a programs’ reputation or the people who work there. They deserve the same chance as you and I do to defend ourselves and should be held accountable for what they do. But it should be done honestly.
Again, you are in fact a liar. You don't care about these kids, you dismiss their claims of abuse as a matter of habit. You stated openly that in 30 + years of operation, less than 1% had ever been abused. You made this claim without any basis, or facts to support your claim. You consistently dismissed and made fun of the kids who were murdered and abused at these places. Here, take a look:
3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
No I don?t, at 300lbs he might have sat down and then not been able to get up because of his weight issues, I wasn?t there, there could be reasonable doubt. I think the person feeding him should be charged, if its McDonalds then they should take responsibility. ?.after all this is America.
You chided posters on for exposing the employees of these places for not being licensed, yet you were estatic upon believing you were exposing any of us, or hearing news of threats and harrassment we recieved. Despite that you somehow felt it was unfair when you yourself were exposed, and you cried about it to no end. I'm amazed you even know the meaning of the word 'honest'.
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php? ... ds#p247570 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=247570&hilit=McDonalds#p247570)
C. (at least I think so) take nothing this bufoon says as being forth right. His bread and butter come directly from locking kids up. He runs an organization that targets impoverished teens to be locked up in these places because he knows such families lack the resources to sue him or the gulags their children are locked up in after being abused, or far worse.
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3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
No I don?t, at 300lbs he might have sat down and then not been able to get up because of his weight issues, I wasn?t there, there could be reasonable doubt. I think the person feeding him should be charged, if its McDonalds then they should take responsibility. ?.after all this is America.
Let me jump in and respond:
The above seems like a reasonable response.... what was the outcome of the investigation? Does anyone know? Maybe the counselor couldn’t get up without assistance. Maybe he didn’t realize that his weight was enough to kill the boy. Maybe he had an eating disorder..... Maybe the food he was eating wasn’t properly marked indicating the calorie intake. If he was eating at McDonalds he may be able to sue them or the boy’s parents could sue.
These may all seem outrageous but this is how the courts work in America. The reason charges were not brought upon this boy shows that there were other circumstances like pointed out above which deemed this not to be criminal. Does anyone know if he intended to kill him? These are the questions that need to be asked to get to the "Truth"
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"thieves and rapists off the street"......well then HLA should have provided an appropriate venue for you...
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And yet still you seek to absolve any program of respondsibility. The grand jury disagreed with you. Thank you for proving my point though, you've never cared about these kids.
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Recap:
Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
I responded:
No I don?t,
RobertBruce responds:
The grand jury disagreed with you. Thank you for proving my point though, you've never cared about these kids.
Bruce, again, do you have a link of some sort to back up your claim?
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http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/Remembe ... ltsie.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/RememberingMichaelWiltsie.html)
http://www.ocala.com/article/20051201/N ... ld-s-death (http://www.ocala.com/article/20051201/NEWS/212010407?Title=Mom-never-the-same-after-child-s-death)
http://www.isaccorp.org/documents/micha ... 24.00.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/documents/michael-wiltsie.02.24.00.html)
This is beyond sad..The mother took her own life and that of her 7 year old son.
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Thanks Jill. The whole story is sad and it affected the entire family and I would guess the counsellor and his family also. This shows again why I post here. If it were left to Bruces posts people would think the counselor was indicted by the grand jury and was guilty of doing something wrong.... but the posts reveal:
"A grand jury cleared the counselor of wrongdoing, saying he was following proper restraint procedures."
If I recall correctly the family of the boy still went after him and tried to sue him. But the Grand jury never believed he was libel.
What puzzles me is why posters like DJ and RobertBruce cannot stick with facts and just come out and state the truth. This really hurts the forums credibility and it is a continuous struggle to hold them both accountable. This is why I insist on links from the 2 of them especially.
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I've got to say John, I love that you no longer have the ability to edit your post, or blame your edits on others. Take a look:
The above seems like a reasonable response.... what was the outcome of the investigation?
You didn't ask if the counselor was brought up on charges John, what you asked was what the outcome of the investigation ended up being. The outcome being that both the program and the Juvenile Justice department were found to be at fault. The counselor, Joseph Cooley, followed the restraint procedures as he'd been trained, or in your own terms, he followed the porper procedure for killing a child. The DJJ later stated that the method used was actually improper. Despite what I'm sure you believe to be your expert opinion, McDonald's was never brought up on charges, or sued in civil court.
Thanks again for playing though, and again confirming for everyone you do not care about these children.
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Sorry Bruce, you try to wiggle out of every lieyou tell. We all read it and now you are trying to change your story. You and DJ have a long history of doing this and I catch you every time. Show us a link where the grand jury disagrees with me when I said the counselor should not be criminally charged. I will tell you again and again. Every time you open your mouth I am going to ask you for a link to back up what you say... and this is why I ask:
RobertBruce:
The grand jury disagreed with you. Thank you for proving my point though, you've never cared about these kids.
The facts:
"A grand jury cleared the counselor of wrongdoing, saying he was following proper restraint procedures."
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No problem John, here you go.
I think the person feeding him should be charged, if its McDonalds then they should take responsibility. ?.after all this is America.
Then here I go:
The grand jury disagreed with you
Again, neither McDonald's nor Mr. Cooley's wife or mother, or any other resturant was either brought up on charges or sued by the victims mother. Hence the grand jury disagreed with you. How this escapes you is baffling.
You can't escape your own words John. You're trying to avoid accountablilty and run away but your own record speaks for itself.
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Robertbruce wrote:
3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
Link (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=247561&sid=94e5f5e2f0ff3fd715d2b1eaf20b9635#p247561)
TheWho Wrote:
No I don’t,.......
Link (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=247570&sid=94e5f5e2f0ff3fd715d2b1eaf20b9635#p247570)
RobertBruce Wrote:
The grand jury disagreed with you. Thank you for proving my point though, you've never cared about these kids.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=342535&sid=2005e666a9227e4c1302f70ee0f73eeb&sid=2005e666a9227e4c1302f70ee0f73eeb#p342535)
The facts:
“A grand jury cleared the counselor of wrongdoing, saying he was following proper restraint procedures.”
Link (http://http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:s88VwNSVV7kJ:www.caica.org/NEWS%2520DEATH%2520Lorenzo.htm+eckert+Joseph+Cooley+grand+jury&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
So again, RB,you said the grand jury disagreed with me. I provided facts and a link to back up my words. Do you have a link to what the Grand jury said to support your post and your words? (I know the answer but I need to ask).
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Do you have a link proving McDonald's was brought up on charges. Cause otherwise it appears as if they disagreed with you.
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Do you have a link proving McDonald's was brought up on charges. Cause otherwise it appears as if they disagreed with you.
Why do you continue to lie? Bruce, Support your post with what you claimed the grand Jury said. I have provided links which proves you to be a liar... what do you have to say for yourself! Show us the links which support your words.
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:roflmao: :roflmao:
I'll tell you what John, I will do just that, the second you can provide me with a link showing where I claimed the counselor was brought up on charges.
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RB and "Guest" - please take your personal feud to your own topic. Allowing Ridge Creek School to exist is to allo kids to endure the same horror kids at HLA had to endure. Disclosing RCS for what it truly is, is far too important than to be derailed by your personal feud and I'm sure the posters on Fornits would agree. Take your feud somewhere else and stick to the facts.
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Robertbruce wrote:
3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
Link (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=247561&sid=94e5f5e2f0ff3fd715d2b1eaf20b9635#p247561)
TheWho Wrote:
No I don’t,.......
Link (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=247570&sid=94e5f5e2f0ff3fd715d2b1eaf20b9635#p247570)
RobertBruce Wrote:
The grand jury disagreed with you. Thank you for proving my point though, you've never cared about these kids.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=342535&sid=be4f59f242615499f1c606a1eea54276&sid=be4f59f242615499f1c606a1eea54276#p342535)
The facts:
“A grand jury cleared the counselor of wrongdoing, saying he was following proper restraint procedures.”
Link (http://http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:s88VwNSVV7kJ:www.caica.org/NEWS%2520DEATH%2520Lorenzo.htm+eckert+Joseph+Cooley+grand+jury&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
So again, RB,you said the grand jury disagreed with me. I provided facts and a link to back up my words. Do you have a link to what the Grand jury said to support your post and your words? (I know the answer but I need to ask).
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It's amazing what happens when you include the entire post John. You arent allowed to edit anymore remember? You abused that privledge. The guest however is right, let's take this back to your garbage dump where you normally spew off your nonsense. I'll see you over there where I will look forward to embarrassing you further.
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It's amazing what happens when you include the entire post John. You arent allowed to edit anymore remember? You abused that privledge. The guest however is right, let's take this back to your garbage dump where you normally spew off your nonsense. I'll see you over there where I will look forward to embarrassing you further.
It would have never gotten derailed if you would just back up your statements with links instead of having everyone going off and proving you wrong. It wastes a lot of space. Remember the links lead to the facts which back up a posters statements. If you look back over the past several posts I use them, Jill Ryan and Guest99 have used them but yourself and DJ always avoid backing up your words and run or change the subject when asked for proof.
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My links were provided right from the beginning John, just go back a page, I'm sure even you can find them. The only one who was proven wrong in this conversation, was you. But again, keep your garbage where it belongs in your garbage depot, no one takes you seriously anyway, so no point in mucking up the forum in your effort to bury pertinant issues.
Oh just for the record though, don't ever compare yourself to Jill again. You have no idea what she's been through because of your friends and people like you. You are nothing like here in any regard.
So then back on topic:
I wonder if we get the criteria for accredidation posted up here. Also I'd be interested to see who was actually the one who signed off on it We know that Buchi used friends, co workers, and family members to get around it in the past. Let's see if he's still doing that.
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Sorry, Bruce, you are lying again. Show us the link to the Grand Jury statement that supports your statements.
Here are mine again:
Robertbruce wrote:
3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
Link (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=247561&sid=94e5f5e2f0ff3fd715d2b1eaf20b9635#p247561)
TheWho Wrote:
No I don’t,.......
Link (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=247570&sid=94e5f5e2f0ff3fd715d2b1eaf20b9635#p247570)
RobertBruce Wrote:
The grand jury disagreed with you. Thank you for proving my point though, you've never cared about these kids.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=342535&sid=9bbe8a42474665395a18cfae62eff99a&sid=9bbe8a42474665395a18cfae62eff99a#p342535)
The facts:
“A grand jury cleared the counselor of wrongdoing, saying he was following proper restraint procedures.”
Link (http://http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:s88VwNSVV7kJ:www.caica.org/NEWS%2520DEATH%2520Lorenzo.htm+eckert+Joseph+Cooley+grand+jury&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
So again, RB,you said the grand jury disagreed with me. I provided facts and a link to back up my words. Do you have a link to what the Grand jury said to support your post and your words? (I know the answer but I need to ask).
We can continue in your garbage dump if you like.
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No more derailing John, everyone here knows you'd that you're desperate to bury any truth which might hurt your future referals after you got burned on HLA, but none of us care. Stay focused on the topic at hand which is RC accredidation/licensure or stop talking.
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Sorry, Bruce, you are lying again. Show us the link to the Grand Jury statement that supports your statements.
Here are mine again:
Robertbruce wrote:
3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
Link (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=247561&sid=94e5f5e2f0ff3fd715d2b1eaf20b9635#p247561)
TheWho Wrote:
No I don’t,.......
Link (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=247570&sid=94e5f5e2f0ff3fd715d2b1eaf20b9635#p247570)
RobertBruce Wrote:
The grand jury disagreed with you. Thank you for proving my point though, you've never cared about these kids.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=342535&sid=b3476627a43a5c939fe00095ca695c40&sid=b3476627a43a5c939fe00095ca695c40#p342535)
The facts:
“A grand jury cleared the counselor of wrongdoing, saying he was following proper restraint procedures.”
Link (http://http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:s88VwNSVV7kJ:www.caica.org/NEWS%2520DEATH%2520Lorenzo.htm+eckert+Joseph+Cooley+grand+jury&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
So again, RB,you said the grand jury disagreed with me. I provided facts and a link to back up my words. Do you have a link to what the Grand jury said to support your post and your words? (I know the answer but I need to ask).
Real simple.. just like I provided links to support my posts. How about providing a link to your grand jury statement?
We can continue in your garbage dump if you like.
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Guest, I can assure you that everyone knows that RobertBruce lied. Now stop posting that over and over again.
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John, again stop trying to derail the conversation. No one believes you. Anyone who wants is welcome to view the comments where you claim charges should be brought against McDonalds for the death of the child in question. If you continue to jump off topic or cheer yourself on you'll be placed on bans.
Now, we were discussing earlier who was involved with the accredidation process and any possible connections to Buch.
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Instead of you all fighting, can you please use your energies to inform parents the Ridgecreek School is just HLA. And that the whole website is a lie. If I knew how I would but I'll leave it up to those of you that are posting.
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John, again stop trying to derail the conversation. No one believes you. Anyone who wants is welcome to view the comments where you claim charges should be brought against McDonalds for the death of the child in question. If you continue to jump off topic or cheer yourself on you'll be placed on bans.
Now, we were discussing earlier who was involved with the accredidation process and any possible connections to Buch.
Well Mc Donalds is killing more then kids, they are killing anyone that eats that crap.