Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 05, 2009, 09:02:01 PM
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http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ ... ty-members (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academics/faculty-members)
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Oops, sorry.
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ ... ty-members (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academics/faculty-members)
•Baker, Jim
•Bell, Kristin
•Brown, Trey
•Buccellato, Len
•Klein, Matt
•Smith, Scott
•Stapp, Joe
•Stevens, Hawley
•Sumpter, Walter
•Tanner, Sam
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10 little, nine little, eight little indians...
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Thats it? Well I guess with that huge student population, they need a ton of staff to keep an eye on all those kids.
^-^
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Hey has anyone ever clicked on their profile? They all have a Bachelors of Science, Masters degeree except Walter. Are all their Staff this well qualified? I remember when you couldnt find a degree in the whole place. Looks like Len is starting to step it up a little.
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10 employees? Including Bucchi? That's it? The whole lot of them? Unbefuckingleiveable. How the mighty hath fallen. I wonder how many students they have.
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Len Buccellato
President and Founder
B.S. Psychology - Fordham University,
M.A. Educational Psychology - University of Georgia, Ph.D. Counseling and Psychological Services - Georgia State University.
Licensed Psychologist in Georgia since 1975
Hopefully not for much longer
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Okay so where is the ORS now? SACS? There are still children there..???
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This is good news. Buccellato can now take responsibility according to the Psychology Board and the ORS docs for the guidance of 3 unlicensed people instead of the 12 ,which placed him in ethical violation according to Georgia's Psychology Board statutes.
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This is good news. Buccellato can now take responsibility according to the Psychology Board and the ORS docs for the guidance of 3 unlicensed people instead of the 12 ,which placed him in ethical violation according to Georgia's Psychology Board statutes.
Each organization gives a period of time (up to a year) to bring their team to within compliance of ORS and Board requirements. The ORS and Psych boards dont exist to shut places down they are there to report, consult and insure compliance to standards. If HLA were the only ones to fall out of compliance then there wouldnt be a need for any of these organizations.
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It is not HLA, it is Buccellato, who committed ethical violations.
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Each organization gives a period of time (up to a year) to bring their team to within compliance of ORS and Board requirements.
Can you cite this for us? Further can you explain if this would still apply given that HLA was already on a probationary license to begin with, and they failed to meet the terms not only of their license, but the corrective plan of action as well?
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Ever notice the name they choose, hidden ranch, why does anyone have to hide?
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Ever notice the name they choose, hidden ranch, why does anyone have to hide?
Hmm, come to think of it. That is kind of creepy.
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That to me right there as a parent would warn me of something. But I guess most parents do not observe. They just respond.
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That to me right there as a parent would warn me of something. But I guess most parents do not observe. They just respond.
Nah, its a nice name. It has that organic feel to it and sounds like a salad dressing or something doesnt it?
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Just wait one somebody will open a program called Hidden Valley Ranch
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...and whooter will deny the Crudités
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...and whooter will deny the Crudités
......and people will cry foul and abuse because they were forced to eat vegetables with no meat. Go figure, you cant please everyone.....
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Shut up who. "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat you meat? You yes you just deal with it
...We don't need no thoughts control"
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Shut up who. "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat you meat? You yes you just deal with it
...We don't need no thoughts control"
Hey!!! ...No dark sarcasm in the classroom....At Hidden Valley Ranch you need to finish your veggies before you get dessert!!
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But at Hidden Lake Academy, you get meat in your mouth all day long.
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HLA is shoving something down kids throats sure enough but it aint meat
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But at Hidden Lake Academy, you get meat in your mouth all day long.
Yes, but all it takes is one "veggie kid" who doesnt like meat and they cry Starvation diet!!! Go figure.
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Troll,Thanks for pointing out the discriminatory practices of HLA and the fact that food is used for punishment.
and,That was good smuckers but with a name like that it has to be good.
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KiUL
Troll,Thanks for pointing out the discriminatory practices of HLA and the fact that food is used for punishment.
and,That was good smuckers but with a name like that it has to be good.
Everyone uses food, even your mother!! If you dont finish your dinner there is no dessert sonny!! If you hit your sister again you will go to bed without supper!!! ......... How about all those starving people in india!! I dont think DSS will remove mother from the home for that.
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Many schools are moving away from using food as a reward/punishment and are trying to focus on non-food reward systems. 5 years ago 81% of grammar and middle used food as a reward for behavior, attendance, or academic achievement.
We will probably start seeing the same trend in programs as well. Personally I think moving towards a creative finance system where the kids earn points or credits that can be traded in for non-food items… time in the pool, time alone, phone a friend (life line), blunt etc.
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cite the source for your numbers, Troll
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Oops, sorry.
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ ... ty-members (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academics/faculty-members)
•Baker, Jim
•Bell, Kristin
•Brown, Trey
•Buccellato, Len
•Klein, Matt
•Smith, Scott
•Stapp, Joe
•Stevens, Hawley
•Sumpter, Walter
•Tanner, Sam
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But at Hidden Lake Academy, you get meat in your mouth all day long.
Yes, but all it takes is one "veggie kid" who doesnt like meat and they cry Starvation diet!!! Go figure.
HLA has a vegetarian option at the cafeteria. at least when i was there.
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Perfect, advertise all the 'dressing' sans the 'meat'.
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that list is definitely incomplete.
HLA has an infrastructure that must be maintained. Who cooks the food? who does maintenance? night supervision? i know theres no more night staff at the dorms, but surely there has to be at least one person on campus at all times... How about washing sheets? it's illegal for the kids to do it themselves, if they are still washing the entire campus at once. they used to have hick woman w/ a beard sitting around washing the sheets all week. how about administration? finances? coaching?
how exactly are these kids getting a high school education? i see only one person that could be considered a teacher - hawley. sam tanner maybe, but my 11th grade geometry with sam was just a review of 6th grade arithmetic with shapes. and i got to sleep on the floor when i was done with my two minute worksheet every day.
where is the so called "supervision" and "accountability" HLA loves to talk about?
one of these two are true:
1. HLA is lying about their staff, and omitting anyone non-essential, unqualified, or hick-looking.
2. thats really all the staff they have, and the kids are tearing each other to pieces. massive anal hemorrhaging caused by mansausage rape is occurring at night to the weakest links. HLA was bad enough with at least two staff for every fifteen or so kids in any given location. when i was there, there were almost 200 kids and nearly that many staff. are there like five kids left or something? i hope so.
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But at Hidden Lake Academy, you get meat in your mouth all day long.
Especially with all the stories of molestation and sodomy...
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that list is definitely incomplete.
HLA has an infrastructure that must be maintained. Who cooks the food? who does maintenance? night supervision? i know theres no more night staff at the dorms, but surely there has to be at least one person on campus at all times... How about washing sheets? it's illegal for the kids to do it themselves, if they are still washing the entire campus at once. they used to have hick woman w/ a beard sitting around washing the sheets all week. how about administration? finances? coaching?
how exactly are these kids getting a high school education? i see only one person that could be considered a teacher - hawley. sam tanner maybe, but my 11th grade geometry with sam was just a review of 6th grade arithmetic with shapes. and i got to sleep on the floor when i was done with my two minute worksheet every day.
where is the so called "supervision" and "accountability" HLA loves to talk about?
one of these two are true:
1. HLA is lying about their staff, and omitting anyone non-essential, unqualified, or hick-looking.
2. thats really all the staff they have, and the kids are tearing each other to pieces. massive anal hemorrhaging caused by mansausage rape is occurring at night to the weakest links. HLA was bad enough with at least two staff for every fifteen or so kids in any given location. when i was there, there were almost 200 kids and nearly that many staff. are there like five kids left or something? i hope so.
and how about the mail room? a NURSE? (for giving out the meds and other necessary tasks, duh). how about the dentists office in the back of the gym? or did they sell that equipment? in that case, who drives the kids on medical visits? how exactly do they manage to teach both 8th and 9th graders, along with seniors and post-seniors with that many staff? do they put 8th and 12th graders in the same english class? math class? is there even any schooling going on there? is there even a librarian left? a registrar?
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that list is definitely incomplete.
HLA has an infrastructure that must be maintained. Who cooks the food? who does maintenance? night supervision? i know theres no more night staff at the dorms, but surely there has to be at least one person on campus at all times... How about washing sheets? it's illegal for the kids to do it themselves, if they are still washing the entire campus at once. they used to have hick woman w/ a beard sitting around washing the sheets all week. how about administration? finances? coaching?
I am sure you are right there must be more employees, some places just list their professional staff members. As far as kids not being allowed to wash sheets that must be a Georgia law. We always did laundry when we were growing up and general cleaning. Is there a health hazard associated with doing sheets specifically? Can kids wash other items like their own clothes?
how exactly are these kids getting a high school education? i see only one person that could be considered a teacher - hawley. sam tanner maybe, but my 11th grade geometry with sam was just a review of 6th grade arithmetic with shapes. and i got to sleep on the floor when i was done with my two minute worksheet every day.
where is the so called "supervision" and "accountability" HLA loves to talk about?
You have to remember that most of these kids had access to a very good education system prior to HLA and refused to even show up. So any parent would be happy to have their kid in a class room even if they just slept on the floor. It has to be better than not being there at all.
one of these two are true:
1. HLA is lying about their staff, and omitting anyone non-essential, unqualified, or hick-looking.
2. thats really all the staff they have, and the kids are tearing each other to pieces. massive anal hemorrhaging caused by mansausage rape is occurring at night to the weakest links. HLA was bad enough with at least two staff for every fifteen or so kids in any given location. when i was there, there were almost 200 kids and nearly that many staff. are there like five kids left or something? i hope so.
I would guess they are not listing all the employees, plus with the turnover rate it would be a task to keep the web site current. I cant figure out from your post whether you think having a hick (as you call it) doing the sheets and food or having the kids doing it is preferable.
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I am sure you are right there must be more employees, some places just list their professional staff members. As far as kids not being allowed to wash sheets that must be a Georgia law. We always did laundry when we were growing up and general cleaning. Is there a health hazard associated with doing sheets specifically? Can kids wash other items like their own clothes?
Except they always listed all the staff in the past. There really isnt a reason to list maintenance staff for the school as the kids are forced to do all the work anyway. As for sheets, during my own incarceration there we always did our own. Not sure why the policy changed, unless some kids just weren't doing it.
You have to remember that most of these kids had access to a very good education system prior to HLA and refused to even show up. So any parent would be happy to have their kid in a class room even if they just slept on the floor. It has to be better than not being there at all.
Most of them? I'd like to see a basis for that claim. Further how is the "no fail" in place at HLA conducive to a higher education? How is a kid who leaves and returns to public or private school by any means prepared since he's already so far behind. Even better, how is such a kid prepared for college? Two minute work sheets and then nap time? Not at the college I went to.
I would guess they are not listing all the employees, plus with the turnover rate it would be a task to keep the web site current. I cant figure out from your post whether you think having a hick (as you call it) doing the sheets and food or having the kids doing it is preferable.
So what are your thoughts on them not having a nurse now? Still not an issue?
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about the sheets:
it's not illegal to do your own sheets. it's illegal to make kids handle other people's sheets as they are biohazard - kids being kids would wack off all week into their sheets. when i was there, every saturday you would dump all the sheets in the common room and restrictions would pick them up in big bins, and carry them down to the maintenance shack by the SAC. there they would pick up bins of clean sheets and carry them to the dorms. there were two sets of sheets for every bed in each dorm, and they would rotate every week.
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about the sheets:
it's not illegal to do your own sheets. it's illegal to make kids handle other people's sheets as they are biohazard - kids being kids would wack off all week into their sheets. when i was there, every saturday you would dump all the sheets in the common room and restrictions would pick them up in big bins, and carry them down to the maintenance shack by the SAC. there they would pick up bins of clean sheets and carry them to the dorms. there were two sets of sheets for every bed in each dorm, and they would rotate every week.
Interesting, if it is a bio-hazard issue then the kids really should not be doing any of the laundry that isnt their own, not just sheets. Who did the laundry in the maintenance shack? Was it kids on restriction? How did the kids clothes get cleaned?
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there were laundry rooms in each of the dorms, around ten washers and ten dryers. kids washed all their own clothing.
the sheets and towels were done by a maintenance staff in a separate laundry room in the maintenance shack, in bigger heavy-duty commercial machines. the staff wore gloves, aprons, and surgical masks when handling the dirty sheets.
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I wonder why they changed it? When I was there we all did our own. If a kid didnt do it, or didnt do his own laundry he was placed on restrictions.
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probably beacuse it was a burden on everyone.
1. they had to pay for extra staff to do it.
2. from my understanding, the maintenance shack by the sac/lake was turned into a pool?
3. restrictions had to carry the sheets up the hill. given the load is 100+lb per bin, even with two kids per bin the load was tremendous considering they had to walk up that hill and the bins barely had handles.
4. doesnt it just make more sense for kids to wash their own shit?
i guess they have streamlined their operations. with the legal expenses and low attendance, they cant afford the same cushy and superfluous extras they had circa 2004 anymore. having 120 staff doesn't make sense when you have 15 kids on campus. i bet things are all sloooooooowwwwww on campus now, like things used to be over the breaks but worse.
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there were laundry rooms in each of the dorms, around ten washers and ten dryers. kids washed all their own clothing.
the sheets and towels were done by a maintenance staff in a separate laundry room in the maintenance shack, in bigger heavy-duty commercial machines. the staff wore gloves, aprons, and surgical masks when handling the dirty sheets.
Maybe it has to do with the sheets being interchangable where as your clothes are just worn by you so there is no cross contamination. Or maybe they need to insure the sheets are clean so they do them separately, maybe there is a state requirement that kids need clean sheets periodically and this is the only way to insure this by having them strip their beds.
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When has Buchi ever cared about state requirements? The only reason he would have changed the policy was if he was forced to, or if it somehow benefited his bottom line. When I was locked up we had washing machines all in the dorms. I'm not sure what was later refered to as "the restriction shack", but we definitely didnt have a pool. There was a tennis court that no one was ever allowed to use. Right next to it was a converted green house that had been used for restrictions until it was decided that was too comfortable, so an open air pavilion was built on the opposite side of the lack where the kids could be kept out in the elements, regardless of weather. Somehow this too was deemed more theraputic.
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when i was there, there were two buildings down at the lake.
one was a larger building (~2000sqft) which was originally a dorm, then converted to an indoor pool, then back to a regular building again because the pool was too high maintenance. that building was called the SAC (Student Activity Center) and had a tv, some game tables, some arcade machines, and a jukebox. there was a shack next to it (~300-500 sqft) closer to the tennis court which housed landscaping equipment, tennis equipment, fishing equipment, and the sheets laundry. the pavilion at the lake there was never really used for restrictions, it was used as a lounge area on weekends for the student body, and for events like a watermelon-eating contest. the current pool was built somewhere near the lake where the SAC was, but i'm not sure whether or not and which buildings the pool replaced.
there were three other areas that were used more extensively by restrictions: lower left field, where the stream diversion was built and the kids gradually cleared the field further to the "left" of trees to make room for more field space. problem was they didnt count on the field swamping up sans the trees eleven months out of the year. There was a shack with no insulation - just a plywood box with a roof and windows along with a fireplace, that was located by lower left when taking the trail up to RCI, but making a right around the lake. further down that trail was a pavillion in the woods that was used for restrictions also; both structures were there for isolating the bad kids during grandparents day, graduation, dogwood fest, and any other events or emergencies where members of the 'public' were on campus.
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The problem with HLA is unlicensed persons dispensing narcotic drugs to minors.
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one was a larger building (~2000sqft) which was originally a dorm, then converted to an indoor pool, then back to a regular building again because the pool was too high maintenance. that building was called the SAC (Student Activity Center) and had a tv, some game tables, some arcade machines, and a jukebox. there was a shack next to it (~300-500 sqft) closer to the tennis court which housed landscaping equipment, tennis equipment, fishing equipment, and the sheets laundry. the pavilion at the lake there was never really used for restrictions, it was used as a lounge area on weekends for the student body, and for events like a watermelon-eating contest. the current pool was built somewhere near the lake where the SAC was, but i'm not sure whether or not and which buildings the pool replaced.
The building you're talking about was dorm 5 was I was locked up. The shack next to it must be what we called the green house, unless they tore that down and replaced with a shack. At the time there was nothing in there but some benches and a table, it was only used for restrictions. I'm not sure if we're talking about the same pavillion. Unless they moved it, you wouldnt want this place as a lounge area. I know there was a gazebo right on the lake across from the dorm, maybe that's it. This thing was an actual pavillion and it was on the far side of the lake from the buildings and pushed way back in the woods far from the lake. It was where we were all kept while on restrictions.
As to a non licensed person dispensing meds, this has always been the norm at HLA.
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oh yeah the pavillion is the same one i was talking about...on the trail around the lake. it sucked being there...it was always dark and dreary there and infested with problem creatures like mice, rats, ants, cockroaches and scorpions for some reason.
they built up the area around the gazebo. from what i saw in old pictures there was just the gazebo once....now theres like 2-6 levels of decking around the gazebo built like tall steps. that entire corner of the lake had a deck wrapped around it. that little area was probably one of the most enjoyable on campus. on a nice weekend you could just lay back on that deck, play an instrument or some cards, chill and enjoy the scenery.
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Oh no, nothing like that existed in my time. I wonder what Buchi's motivation for putting it in was. More window treatment?
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These are questions that should be directed to the managing attonery Nina Edidin at the ORS. Her email: Nina J Edidin < [email protected]>
These questions should also go to the Director his email: Keith Bostick" <[email protected]>
Also the infamous Program Director of Residential Child Care, Carol Winstead. Her email is: Carol Winstead <[email protected]>
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Oh no, nothing like that existed in my time. I wonder what Buchi's motivation for putting it in was. More window treatment?
yup. window treatment.
what peer group were you in/ what years did you attend?
belive it or not, HLA got very luxurious for a period.
they built 3 new dorms, each with the capacity for around 70 kids. you might have seen the first one, which was a few hundred feet past the academic building. the girl's dorm was pretty luxurious. HUGE common room with twin-story windows and skylights, three floors, and to be honest it beats any college dorm i have ever seen in most categories. one of your old dorms were turned into a counselor building, and the bottom floor of the old academic building which once housed kids was renovated for classrooms. of course, that whole building along with the Admin building burned down, leaving the new academic building which was also a nice facility. they also added a section to the lodge at some point. I dont know how old the gym is, you might have been there for it, was a pretty nice facility compared to the older buildings. it also used to have a rug floor, they replaced that with polished concrete. they also added a bathroom to lower left, and two new dorms at ridge creek. they also built horse stables.
they also built a small townhouse-style development with around 20 housing units where staff lived a few hundred yards down the road. a funny observation: despite being within very easy walking distance from campus, the staff who lived there would still drive their cars to school and park in the parking lot by the gym. wouldn't even carpool.
they accomplished that because for a while HLA had up to 200 students at a time + up to a hundred at ridge creek. even with an almost 1:1 staff/student ratio they were amassing huge amounts of capital. they idiotically dumped all that capital into making the school look nice and handle more students. unfortunately for them they didnt realize that first of all, the land itself cant handle that many people. every summer the water would dry up, we only got to shower once every few days for a timed amount sometimes, and only flush the toilet when we #2. the septic system would overflow even with a hundred or so students, and spill over into the lake. on some days you could smell the septic overflow all over campus, particularly in the mornings. that and the way they were running the school, the type of school it is, doesn't work with that many people. you cant have therapy, immaculate supervision and accountability with that many people no matter how many staff you hire.
alas, STILL no chapel.
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The gym was still carpeted in my time. The admin building you're talking about was classrooms on the top floor/girls dorms on the bottom. One new dorm had been built a few months before I left, and I know they had plans to build additional ones later on. I'm not surprised Buchi would invest so much in sprucing the place up. Parents come by see what a nice place it is, and buy right into it. Too bad the place is rotten to the core, and full of abusive and illegal practices.
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The sewage was spilling over into the tennis courts for a long time. Notice was given to fix the sewage problem. It would have remained that way.
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Oh no, nothing like that existed in my time. I wonder what Buchi's motivation for putting it in was. More window treatment?
what peer group were you in/ what years did you attend?
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the above "sssdfsdrhsdrh" is an imposter. he is not the same as the first one. likely HLA cronie trying to zero-in on who you are.
you dont have to reveal when you were there if you dont want to.
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Oh no, nothing like that existed in my time. I wonder what Buchi's motivation for putting it in was. More window treatment?
what peer group were you in/ what years did you attend?
Its not that he wont answer it. It that he cannot answer it. If you reworded the question to say: "What weeks did you attend" then he could answer it honestly. But I understand why he would avoid the questions.
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so you are saying you ARE an HLA cronie, and you already know who RB is?
what a lame strategy to discredit someone. you dont need years to know somethings rotten. with HLA, you need just a few hours.
but i do find it kinda pathetic that someone who was only there for a few weeks a decade ago would waste their time here. it's a noble cause; getting abusive schools shut down; but crying about abuse that you barely experienced (compared to others) a long time ago is kinda sad.
i also must admit that due to the length of time that has passed since RB's stay at HLA, he is no longer a qualified witness as to what goes on there now. not that HLA is no longer accountable for their past actions, they very much are, but RB is of no use now. the only way to punish HLA now is by exposing abuses that happened in the recent past, taking away their famous excuse: "we have reformed, we have changed our ways, we are nice to kids now".
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Oh John isn't an HLA cronie, he just locks kids up there. See he got tired of consistently being owned on the fact that he has no basis or first hand experience to discuss this abusive industry, so rather that accept facts and take respondsibility, he counters by trying to bring others down to his level.
He made up this claim that I had only attended HLA for a few weeks some time ago. He has no basis for his claim, but when has that ever stopped him?
In reality I was incarcerated in HLA for just shy of a year. He and everyone else already know this. I know exactly what went on there, and can have attested to it many, many times. Regardless of whether or not things have drastically changed there (they apparently haven't) it in no way negates the abuse that went on there then.
John Whooter Reuben can't stand anyone else to have an inside track he doesn't, he's obsessed with credibility he doesnt have, so he continually tries to claim that no one has more insight or experience then him. Given that he has none, you see what he's forced to work with. Couple this with his hatred of being held accountable and this is what you get.
This is the same reason he claims I guest post. He has no basis for such a claim, but because he does, and because he consistently plays games pretending to be various people, he has to assume others do as well.
HLA has been trying to ascertain who I am for years, if they werent staffed by such absolute morons they would have figured it out long ago. I'm not helping them though.
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but i do find it kinda pathetic that someone who was only there for a few weeks a decade ago would waste their time here. it's a noble cause; getting abusive schools shut down; but crying about abuse that you barely experienced (compared to others) a long time ago is kinda sad.
i also must admit that due to the length of time that has passed since RB's stay at HLA, he is no longer a qualified witness as to what goes on there now. not that HLA is no longer accountable for their past actions, they very much are, but RB is of no use now. the only way to punish HLA now is by exposing abuses that happened in the recent past, taking away their famous excuse: "we have reformed, we have changed our ways, we are nice to kids now".
The little guy is fun to have around, though, look at the previous post. You have to give him credit for trying to avoid facing his guest posts.
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thewho you still haven't explained why he would ask psy to link up his guest post if he really had something to hide. I think I worded my other question you incorrectly. What Im wondering is on what do you base your claim that he is guest posting? Ive watched the two of you go at it for years. From where Im sitting it doesnt seem to accomplish much. You seem like an intelligent guy thewho. Why dont you take him up on his offer and have a conversation about the issues minus all the wasted personal attacks?
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thewho you still haven't explained why he would ask psy to link up his guest post if he really had something to hide. I think I worded my other question you incorrectly. What Im wondering is on what do you base your claim that he is guest posting? Ive watched the two of you go at it for years. From where Im sitting it doesnt seem to accomplish much. You seem like an intelligent guy thewho. Why dont you take him up on his offer and have a conversation about the issues minus all the wasted personal attacks?
Bruce stated himself that he had guest posts. Bruce and I already had this conversation and we are waiting for him to string his guest posts together before moving forward. He needs to focus and get the job done. Fairly straight foward.
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he also said he hadnt guest posted in about a year and he asked the admins to link up his posting on more then one occasion. I guess I just still see it as you only being willing to accept a single answer and not considering any other. I just dont buy what youre saying it just doesnt jive. if hes telling the truth and only has five guest posts to add its not going to make a noticable difference in his posts number. if hes lying and running away from it why would he ask the admins on the board to link up the posts? plus if his guest posts were all that old and they were suddenly added to his total how would you even know? they arent suddenly going to be moved up just because the admins added them. you also still havent answered the question about what youre basing your claim on. what makes you think he is guest posting? to be honest with you thewho i think it makes you lose credibility. i take you to be a smart man but you back down and focus on pointless issues when people try to strike up a real conversation with you about the topic at hand. at this point it doesnt look like theres much to go on with thinking he is guest posting. why not move on and prove your case about what you feel are the benefits of these programs with a genuine conversation? stop wasting time with this silliness that helps no one.
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The easiest and simplest approach is for Bruce to just get his guest posts linked together. Then all the other questions and answers will just fall into place. This hard resistance and running away from the truth is so telling. Can you think of any other reason why he doesnt want to do this besides that he has something to hide and is lying about his trolling fornits as multiple people? The more he digs his heels in the more he exposes himself as a troll.
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thewho you still haven't explained why he would ask psy to link up his guest post if he really had something to hide. I think I worded my other question you incorrectly. What Im wondering is on what do you base your claim that he is guest posting? Ive watched the two of you go at it for years. From where Im sitting it doesnt seem to accomplish much. You seem like an intelligent guy thewho. Why dont you take him up on his offer and have a conversation about the issues minus all the wasted personal attacks?
Because we're talking about TheWho here, guest. He doesn't do substantive dialogue.
He's still trying to say I 'altered' his posts five years ago when I don't have, didn't have and never have had any moderator privileges and thus his assertion is impossible (and B.S.). He just doesn't like getting caught in bald-faced lies, which he does very often. For a month or so he was saying RB is actually TheWho, another totally false allegation. He's just trying to shift the focus off of his +/- 10,000 anonymous guest posts which he refuses to have linked to his username, so he just flips the script and says "RB won't have his posts linked," which, of course is also false, as RB has asked the mods several times to do just that.
TheWho (John D. Reuben of "SavingTeens") is a cretin and you won't get him to play it straight. He's got too much money riding on the industry. ASR led his son to suicide and still pimps it. Go figure.
Forget trying to engage the "Joggernaut."
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Took you long enough to come to your little buddies rescue. Sorry to have to prove you wrong one more time DJ (seems to be a trend with you). You should really read thru the posts before you jump in and make a fool of yourself. I have had my guest posts strung to gether at least twice and the second time I had about 350 posts in 2 years. Check it out with psy if you doubt it. Bruce was the one who stated he was TheWho.........Secondly it was Bruce who brought up the stringing of guest posts together. I suggested that he go first and he has been heading for the hills ever since........ My deal is that he needs to get that done before we can move forward.
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But you've been posting anon for a couple of years now and you only got your posts strung together from the first few MONTHS of posting at Fornits. You're FOS, Whootie. Get ALL of your posts strung together and everyone will see what a huge liar you are. Therefore, you won't do it. Give the word now, tough guy. Stand on your moral certitude. Request ALL your posts be linked to our username.
I'll bet you that you have over 15,000 posts under your name when it gets done. But, of course, you won't, because like RB says, you're a coward.
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Of course he's a coward. He's also an idiot determined to type out all of what poops into his who head. He's got shame in his game
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But you've been posting anon for a couple of years now and you only got your posts strung together from the first few MONTHS of posting at Fornits. You're FOS, Whootie. Get ALL of your posts strung together and everyone will see what a huge liar you are. Therefore, you won't do it. Give the word now, tough guy. Stand on your moral certitude. Request ALL your posts be linked to our username.
I'll bet you that you have over 15,000 posts under your name when it gets done. But, of course, you won't, because like RB says, you're a coward.
Wrong again. I had my posts strung together after a few months of first posting here which created my name TheWho and then 2 years later I had my anon posts strung together again (and attached to my user name TheWho) when everyone was saying I had 1,000's of anon posts. Once again I had proven my critics wrong.
I gave my user name up for auction several months ago and have been posting as a guest ever since.
So now, Robert( oh so quick to call others a coward)Bruce it is your turn..... we are waiting. Let us know when it is done.
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But you've been posting anon for a couple of years now and you only got your posts strung together from the first few MONTHS of posting at Fornits. You're FOS, Whootie. Get ALL of your posts strung together and everyone will see what a huge liar you are. Therefore, you won't do it. Give the word now, tough guy. Stand on your moral certitude. Request ALL your posts be linked to our username.
I'll bet you that you have over 15,000 posts under your name when it gets done. But, of course, you won't, because like RB says, you're a coward.
Wrong again. I had my posts strung together after a few months of first posting here which created my name TheWho and then 2 years later I had my anon posts strung together again (and attached to my user name TheWho) when everyone was saying I had 1,000's of anon posts. Once again I had proven my critics wrong.
I gave my user name up for auction several months ago and have been posting as a guest ever since.
So now, Robert( oh so quick to call others a coward)Bruce it is your turn..... we are waiting. Let us know when it is done.
First iof all, you're lying. You never strung together any posts past the first few months. And what about the next 10,000 or so anon posts? Why not have those strung together? RB has maybe 5 or 10, but you have 5 or 10 THOUSAND. That's the difference. And you are afraid to own them. I would be too if I wrote some of the garbage you did!
So why cower in the shadows, Whootie? Be a man for once in your pathetic draft-dodging, trust-fund spending life. Get your posts linked up. Until you do, I think everyone should ignore you completely. Why be so cowardly when demanding better from others? You're not only a coward, but also a hypocrite. Your credibility is nil, my man. The more you run from it, the worse you look. And it's already very bad.
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First iof all, you're lying. You never strung together any posts past the first few months.
Well, first off I started posting in the spring of 2005 and had my posts strung together under the name "TheWho" in August of 2005. Then in august 2007 I had my post strung together again. Here is the post and link: TheWhos anon posts (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=278562&sid=af5d10db2c91f9e1040c75175000d4e5&sid=af5d10db2c91f9e1040c75175000d4e5#p278562) I guess I it wasnt 350 but 272 guest posts in 2 years. That means I averaged less than 3 guest posts per week.
summary:
Psy stated: Well. TheWho emailed me confirming his identity. With his permission, I post the following:.......
So. 156+116 = a total of 272 posts as a Guest. The who is correct in that it is below his posts under his username, however it is much greater than 50. I expect a photo!
DJ, RobertBruce and company are always so eager to peg me as a liar and each time the facts come back to haunt them. Read the facts and weep......
So, Bruce, I ask you again are you ready to have all your posts strung together under one user name? or are you going to continue to run and hide? If you dont want to do it just say so like a man. you can log in and tell me or just guest post me. Which ever you are more comfortable with.
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make peace and then sexytime?
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Whooter, You hit a home run you fucking bugger you. I hate you but I gotta admit that when your right your right. Shame on those guys for lying like that.
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Can you think of any other reason why he doesnt want to do this besides that he has something to hide and is lying about his trolling fornits as multiple people?
yes that he might be telling the truth. i still say youre stuck on this accepting only one answer thing. if he hasnt been guest posting then he wouldnt have a thing to add. you still havent explained what youre basing your claim about him guest posting even on. you also havent explained why if he really did have something to hide he would ask the admins to link up his posts on more than one occasion. i said before you struck as a man who seems to know his stuff even if i dont always agree with you but honestly thewho im starting to wonder if some of these other posters might be right about you.
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yes that he might be telling the truth.
Well then great, he should get his posts strung together
i still say youre stuck on this accepting only one answer thing. if he hasnt been guest posting then he wouldnt have a thing to add.
Well sure he would he could show us the 5 guest posts he says he has.
you still havent explained what youre basing your claim about him guest posting even on.
I am not guessing, Bruce said himself he has guest posted.
you also havent explained why if he really did have something to hide he would ask the admins to link up his posts on more than one occasion. i said before you struck as a man who seems to know his stuff even if i dont always agree with you but honestly thewho im starting to wonder if some of these other posters might be right about you.
Oh, I am sure the other posters are right about me and others are not right about me. There were some who said I had thousands of guest posts and then I decided (since I have nothing to hide) to ask psy to string them all together and count them. It turned out to be only 272 posts in 2 years which showed that I posted under 3 guest posts per week. Now we are looking at RobertBruces guest posts and he is trying to hide them... just curious as to why. No big deal, he can come on here and just say he wants to keep his guest posting private and that’s okay and we will move on.
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Whooter, You hit a home run you fucking bugger you. I hate you but I gotta admit that when your right your right. Shame on those guys for lying like that.
The strange thing is that all the history resides in the data base. I dont understand why DJ and Bruce keep trying to call me a liar when I can easily provide a link to what really occured (like I did a few posts back). It baffles my mind. DysfunctionJunction claims to be a professional, I would at least expect him to know that all my posts (and everyone elses) is documented here in the data base for easy reference. How does he continue to expect to get away with lying about what transpired in the past? I nail him on it everytime. Bruce, I am not so sure about, hes not the sharpest guy in the group and that is why I am giving him a wider girth to figure out which way he wants to procede with this guest posting thing. If he wants out I will let him walk away, he just needs to come clean.
But thanks for the thumbs up!!!
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There were some who said I had thousands of guest posts and then I decided (since I have nothing to hide) to ask psy to string them all together and count them. It turned out to be only 272 posts in 2 years which showed that I posted under 3 guest posts per week.
Actually John at the time I don't believe Psy was a mod. It was actually Deborah who linked your posts together, and lets not mince words, you didnt ask for anything, she tricked you into doing it. Plain and simple. You cried and cried about it later on, claiming posts that weren't yours had been attached to you, claiming your posts had been altered without your permission, blah blah blah. No one bought it, you were just owned time and time again. In addition the fact remains that what you're refering to now was only the first link up, at which point you had only been posting a few months, not two years. You're a liar John Reuben, and you're just upset at being held accountable.
The strange thing is that all the history resides in the data base. I dont understand why DJ and Bruce keep trying to call me a liar when I can easily provide a link to what really occured (like I did a few posts back). It baffles my mind. DysfunctionJunction claims to be a professional, I would at least expect him to know that all my posts (and everyone elses) is documented here in the data base for easy reference.
That's suggesting that all of your previous guest posts have been linked up John. Are you going to tell us that's the case?
How does he continue to expect to get away with lying about what transpired in the past? I nail him on it everytime
Really? When? I personally have challenged you on multiple occasions to cite a single example of an argument you won, or a point you've proven definitively on here. You come up empty handed every single time. As hilarious as it is I'd like to see you actually try for once. I off the top of my head can name several instances where you were severly trounced. Ask me for them John, you know how I love embarrassing you.
Bruce, I am not so sure about, hes not the sharpest guy in the group and that is why I am giving him a wider girth to figure out which way he wants to procede with this guest posting thing. If he wants out I will let him walk away, he just needs to come clean.
But thanks for the thumbs up!!!
If you can't cheer for yourself who can you cheer for right John? The only supporters you've ever had on here and in your day to day life (which is predominantly spent on here) have been in your head. Let me ask you something Johnny, if what you claim is true, then why have I schooled you time and time again? Why have you lost so many arguments to me and virtually every other person you've come up against on here? If you're so much smarter, why do you keep losing? And why is this industry you so ardently believe in dying? Again, ask me for specific examples if need be. I'd love to rehash the school nurse issue, or the time you couldnt quite grasp what a referendum was. Or how about the time you insisted there were 10,000 psychologist in the US. THe time you claimed an institute that was barred from issuing diplomas fit the legal definition of a high school. Or how you swore up and down I had made up the starvation diet, only to have HLA staff confirm it and tell you to shut up. Good times. You let me know Johnny. I'll look forward to you being a coward and ducking the issues as always.
Hey, before I let you go, have you gotten a chance to read up on those five guest posts I had linked up? The class is still waiting on you Johnny.
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Actually John at the time I don't believe Psy was a mod. It was actually Deborah who linked your posts together, and lets not mince words, you didnt ask for anything, she tricked you into doing it. Plain and simple. You cried and cried about it later on, claiming posts that weren't yours had been attached to you, claiming your posts had been altered without your permission, blah blah blah. No one bought it, you were just owned time and time again. In addition the fact remains that what you're refering to now was only the first link up, at which point you had only been posting a few months, not two years. You're a liar John Reuben, and you're just upset at being held accountable.
Well lets take a look then shall we?
Oh here is a link to when I had my posts strung together Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=278562&sid=9ff91d1b02f14dd65db96d87d13f6808&sid=9ff91d1b02f14dd65db96d87d13f6808#p278562)
So you see Psy was a mod at the time and I emailed him confirming that he could string my guest posts together and psy did the work not Deborah (tsk,tsk,tsk cant you tell the truth about anything, Bruce?). You guys really need to start utilizing the database more. You make yourselves look so foolish when you just keep making things up and expecting everyone to believe it.
So, Bruce, now it is your turn. Get your guest posts strung together. Why does this frighten you so much? Its a very curious reaction for someone who claims they only have 5 guest posts. Hmmmm...
I will be glade to discuss any other topic with you once we resolve this one.
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Please don't respond to TheWho until he has his posts strung together. He's been posting for a few years anon since he last was forced to link up his posts. He has some 10,000 posts anon that he is scared to have linked to his username.
It's time for this alleged "adult" to come clean. Why is he so scared?
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TheWho never had his posts linked, only counted. Interestingly, he only claimed about one fifth of what was really there. Now we just needs to have all those posts show up under his username so we can see who he's been posing as for the last two or three years.
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Well lets take a look then shall we?
Oh here is a link to when I had my posts strung together Link
So you see Psy was a mod at the time and I emailed him confirming that he could string my guest posts together and psy did the work not Deborah (tsk,tsk,tsk cant you tell the truth about anything, Bruce?). You guys really need to start utilizing the database more. You make yourselves look so foolish when you just keep making things up and expecting everyone to believe it.
Yes let's take a look. Try this link:
http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&p=167786&hilit=littlecats#p167786
See John the thing is, your post is from 2007, mine is from 2006. Now I didn't major in math or anything but something tells me that in our current method of time keeping 2006 came first. In the 2006 post you not only claim your posts were strung together (which you incorrectly blame DJ for), but you cry about it as well. You really should start using the database John, you make yourself look so foolish when you just keep making things up and expecting everyone to believe it. :twofinger:
So, Bruce, now it is your turn. Get your guest posts strung together. Why does this frighten you so much? Its a very curious reaction for someone who claims they only have 5 guest posts. Hmmmm...
I will be glade to discuss any other topic with you once we resolve this one.
No you won't, you're a coward who hates being held accountable by anyone. Too bad I'm not letting you off the hook John. You can easily confim for yourself that all five of my guest posts have been linked up. I'm not doing your homework for you. But you won't either because you're a coward who's either too stupid to accept the truth, or has too great a vested interest in your continued kick backs.
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Here is what the results look like when they are done:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=278562&sid=4875847a954b6dba506c70df3ea3cd85&sid=4875847a954b6dba506c70df3ea3cd85#p278562).
Bruce insists that Deborah did the work yet the evidence says something different (makes us all wonder what other stories Bruce has made up and posted here Hmmm….). The fact remains that Psy strung the posts together and found I had 272 posts in 2 years which is an average of less than 3 posts per week. Lets see what RobertBruces history looks like.
On a lighter note (sort of a bonus for all of us):
At the end of all this we will see that when Bruce uses he favorite word “coward” it will forever take on a new flavor for him, he will be reminded that he is running from accountability for his guest posts… Keep running Bruce but remember….. we are not moving forward until it is done.
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thewho im the same guest youve been conversing with over this issue the past few days. i have to say your actions have fully swayed me into believing the negative things other posters have said about you. i have asked you several times what makes you think mr. bruce is afraid to link up his guest postings since he asked the admins to do so on more then one occasion. you have been unwilling or unable to answer me. i asked you what you were basing your claim of mr. bruce guest posting on. you claimed it was because mr. bruce had said he guest posted. ive been reading this forum off and on for the past few months and ive gotten i believe the entire conversation. the whole thing began after you attempted to pin your own postings on him by pretending you were the same person. he beat you at your own game so you switched tactics. you began consistently claiming that any guest poster who attacked you or your position was mr bruce. he at that point told you he hadnt guest posted in the past year and had only ever done so about five times. you then began insisting otherwise. you continue to believe that he as you claim "attacks from teh shadows'. my repeated question to has been what do you base this claim on? i dont understand why its so hard for you to answer these questions. it really is a shame mr. bruce has offered to have a legitimate debate with you without all the silliness and all you want to focus on is this pointless issue. pointless because you yourself have acknowledged you have often guest posted or "attacked from the shadows". you have no reason not to take mr bruce at face value and you have no basis to call him a liar. he has repeated his suggestion that you confirm the link up for yourself which you seem uninterested in doing. again i stand by my claim that youre only interested in one answer and not the truth. the truly sad part about it all is that because you seem to believe in this system so strongly you could undoubtedly present an interesting argument with those like mr. bruce who are opposed to it. in doing so and having positive discourse i think youd see a lot more useful information come to the surface. instead though you seem more interested in this silliness and all you do is waste time. good night thewho.
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I understand what you are saying. I have many questions myself as do other people. But most of our questions will be answered once all his posts are strung together.
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thewho im the same guest youve been conversing with over this issue the past few days. i have to say your actions have fully swayed me into believing the negative things other posters have said about you. i have asked you several times what makes you think mr. bruce is afraid to link up his guest postings since he asked the admins to do so on more then one occasion. you have been unwilling or unable to answer me. i asked you what you were basing your claim of mr. bruce guest posting on. you claimed it was because mr. bruce had said he guest posted. ive been reading this forum off and on for the past few months and ive gotten i believe the entire conversation. the whole thing began after you attempted to pin your own postings on him by pretending you were the same person. he beat you at your own game so you switched tactics. you began consistently claiming that any guest poster who attacked you or your position was mr bruce. he at that point told you he hadnt guest posted in the past year and had only ever done so about five times. you then began insisting otherwise. you continue to believe that he as you claim "attacks from teh shadows'. my repeated question to has been what do you base this claim on? i dont understand why its so hard for you to answer these questions. it really is a shame mr. bruce has offered to have a legitimate debate with you without all the silliness and all you want to focus on is this pointless issue. pointless because you yourself have acknowledged you have often guest posted or "attacked from the shadows". you have no reason not to take mr bruce at face value and you have no basis to call him a liar. he has repeated his suggestion that you confirm the link up for yourself which you seem uninterested in doing. again i stand by my claim that youre only interested in one answer and not the truth. the truly sad part about it all is that because you seem to believe in this system so strongly you could undoubtedly present an interesting argument with those like mr. bruce who are opposed to it. in doing so and having positive discourse i think youd see a lot more useful information come to the surface. instead though you seem more interested in this silliness and all you do is waste time. good night thewho.
Well, that sums up five years of TheWho lying, blaming others, impersonating people, etc. It only took you a month or so to see the full story. TheWho is not interested in debate. Every debate he tries to have he gets fully owned by the more educated and logical posters (mostly anyone from Fornits fits this bill) and he quickly devolves to posting as various people supporting his side of the argument and eventually to just claiming "RobertBruce did it, not me!" There you have it. Troll is fully owned by newbie.
BTW, did you notice in the link TheWho provided that he caught himself posing as RB by just adding a "." to the end of "RobertBruce" and trying to pass himself off as RB? He's done that a lot more since his posts were identified, but NOT LINKED TO HIS USERNAME, several years ago. He easily has 10,000 anonymous posts here that he's too chicken to have married to his user account.
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Well, that sums up five years of TheWho lying, blaming others, impersonating people, etc. It only took you a month or so to see the full story. TheWho is not interested in debate. Every debate he tries to have he gets fully owned by the more educated and logical posters (mostly anyone from Fornits fits this bill) and he quickly devolves to posting as various people supporting his side of the argument and eventually to just claiming "RobertBruce did it, not me!" There you have it. Troll is fully owned by newbie.
BTW, did you notice in the link TheWho provided that he caught himself posing as RB by just adding a "." to the end of "RobertBruce" and trying to pass himself off as RB? He's done that a lot more since his posts were identified, but NOT LINKED TO HIS USERNAME, several years ago. He easily has 10,000 anonymous posts here that he's too chicken to have married to his user account.
Sorry, Bruce, this "stringing the posts together" was your idea, remember? So you can wiggle, squirm and say what you will but until you get "your" posts strung together we dont move forward.
Sorry Buddy
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thewho im the same guest youve been conversing with over this issue the past few days. i have to say your actions have fully swayed me into believing the negative things other posters have said about you. i have asked you several times what makes you think mr. bruce is afraid to link up his guest postings since he asked the admins to do so on more then one occasion. you have been unwilling or unable to answer me. i asked you what you were basing your claim of mr. bruce guest posting on. you claimed it was because mr. bruce had said he guest posted. ive been reading this forum off and on for the past few months and ive gotten i believe the entire conversation. the whole thing began after you attempted to pin your own postings on him by pretending you were the same person. he beat you at your own game so you switched tactics. you began consistently claiming that any guest poster who attacked you or your position was mr bruce. he at that point told you he hadnt guest posted in the past year and had only ever done so about five times. you then began insisting otherwise. you continue to believe that he as you claim "attacks from teh shadows'. my repeated question to has been what do you base this claim on? i dont understand why its so hard for you to answer these questions. it really is a shame mr. bruce has offered to have a legitimate debate with you without all the silliness and all you want to focus on is this pointless issue. pointless because you yourself have acknowledged you have often guest posted or "attacked from the shadows". you have no reason not to take mr bruce at face value and you have no basis to call him a liar. he has repeated his suggestion that you confirm the link up for yourself which you seem uninterested in doing. again i stand by my claim that youre only interested in one answer and not the truth. the truly sad part about it all is that because you seem to believe in this system so strongly you could undoubtedly present an interesting argument with those like mr. bruce who are opposed to it. in doing so and having positive discourse i think youd see a lot more useful information come to the surface. instead though you seem more interested in this silliness and all you do is waste time. good night thewho.
Well, that sums up five years of TheWho lying, blaming others, impersonating people, etc. It only took you a month or so to see the full story. TheWho is not interested in debate. Every debate he tries to have he gets fully owned by the more educated and logical posters (mostly anyone from Fornits fits this bill) and he quickly devolves to posting as various people supporting his side of the argument and eventually to just claiming "RobertBruce did it, not me!" There you have it. Troll is fully owned by newbie.
BTW, did you notice in the link TheWho provided that he caught himself posing as RB by just adding a "." to the end of "RobertBruce" and trying to pass himself off as RB? He's done that a lot more since his posts were identified, but NOT LINKED TO HIS USERNAME, several years ago. He easily has 10,000 anonymous posts here that he's too chicken to have married to his user account.
Well, I'm not "Bruce" so you got that one wrong again. I'm just another poster who sees you for what you are: a liar and a troll. It seems like any new reader here sees right through TheWho's BS, which is good to know. Now we can all be assured he has no impact here and just wastes his pathetic life posting day and night posing as "Bruce." Pathetic.
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Sorry, Bruce, dont get mad (not all your posts need to be linked!!! Ha,Ha,Ha), but you are very transparent... here lets take another look and get back on topic:
Here is what the results look like when they are done:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=278562&sid=4a251ad2f07afbaac37cbc585e8d061b&sid=4a251ad2f07afbaac37cbc585e8d061b#p278562).
Bruce insists that Deborah did the work yet the evidence says something different (makes us all wonder what other stories Bruce has made up and posted here Hmmm….). The fact remains that Psy strung the posts together and found I had 272 posts in 2 years which is an average of less than 3 posts per week. Lets see what RobertBruces history looks like.
On a lighter note (sort of a bonus for all of us):
At the end of all this we will see that when Bruce uses he favorite word “coward” it will forever take on a new flavor for him, he will be reminded that he is running from accountability for his guest posts… Keep running Bruce but remember….. we are not moving forward until it is done.
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In the link you provided it only shows a post count, but none are linked to your account, Who. Why is that? Also, why did you create a username "RobertBruce." (period at the end)? Why were you pretending to be RobertBruce? How many other usernames do you have? I'd like to see those posts linked to your username along with the rest since 2007. Until you do that, you have no credibility. How can anyone believe you when right in the link you provide you were logged in as "RobertBruce."? It really looks like you are the one trying to jerk people around, not RB. After all, you're pretending to be him.
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In the link you provided it only shows a post count, but none are linked to your account, Who. Why is that? Also, why did you create a username "RobertBruce." (period at the end)? Why were you pretending to be RobertBruce? How many other usernames do you have? I'd like to see those posts linked to your username along with the rest since 2007. Until you do that, you have no credibility. How can anyone believe you when right in the link you provide you were logged in as "RobertBruce."? It really looks like you are the one trying to jerk people around, not RB. After all, you're pretending to be him.
Nice try, but we dont move forward until your posts are strung together. Sorry
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In the link you provided it only shows a post count, but none are linked to your account, Who. Why is that? Also, why did you create a username "RobertBruce." (period at the end)? Why were you pretending to be RobertBruce? How many other usernames do you have? I'd like to see those posts linked to your username along with the rest since 2007. Until you do that, you have no credibility. How can anyone believe you when right in the link you provide you were logged in as "RobertBruce."? It really looks like you are the one trying to jerk people around, not RB. After all, you're pretending to be him.
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Hmmmmm...Why was TheWho trying to pose as RB by creating this login? Makes me wonder about who else he's impersonating and what else he's lying about. Doesn't look good for that guy at all. He's a troll for sure. People interested in "balanced discussion" don't have logins to impersonate others.
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Gotta give thewho credit. He did have all his posts laid out for open criticism. I wonder how many names the bruce has posted under. I cant wait to see how this turns out.
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Credit? For what? He only had a count done and accidentally told on himself. This makes him stupid, not 'credit-worthy'. Now just tell us why you tried to pose as RB, Who.
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Credit? For what? He only had a count done and accidentally told on himself. This makes him stupid, not 'credit-worthy'. Now just tell us why you tried to pose as RB, Who.
At least he is taking accountability for what he has written and places it all out there for others to see. Bruce on the other hand is like the kid in school who picks apart everyones elses speech, makes fun of their flaws and then when its his day to stand up and speak he calls in sick.
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Now just tell us why you tried to pose as RB, Who.
Well, why did you do this, Who? Also, why weren't your posts linked up as you said? They were just counted.
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Credit? For what? He only had a count done and accidentally told on himself. This makes him stupid, not 'credit-worthy'. Now just tell us why you tried to pose as RB, Who.
At least he is taking accountability for what he has written and places it all out there for others to see. Bruce on the other hand is like the kid in school who picks apart everyones elses speech, makes fun of their flaws and then when its his day to stand up and speak he calls in sick.
Good analogy! I dont really expect Bruce to come clean. He is really stuck if he doesnt so he will have to try to somehow get the focus off of himself and onto me buy posting as a guest... oh wait!! Ha,Ha,Ha
Bruce you are too funny. You should log in..... start calling me a coward and then when I ask you to link up all your posts you can start to run away again. One option is you could pretend that you are going on a trip and hope this all blows over in a few weeks.
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Credit? For what? He only had a count done and accidentally told on himself. This makes him stupid, not 'credit-worthy'. Now just tell us why you tried to pose as RB, Who.
Why did you create this login to pose as RobertBruce? What was your thinking there?
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Credit? For what? He only had a count done and accidentally told on himself. This makes him stupid, not 'credit-worthy'. Now just tell us why you tried to pose as RB, Who.
Why did you create this login to pose as RobertBruce? What was your thinking there?
Perfect timing... did you see my last post? I couldnt have called it better!!..."I dont really expect Bruce to come clean. He is really stuck if he doesnt so he will have to try to somehow get the focus off of himself and onto me buy posting as a guest... oh wait!! Ha,Ha,Ha"
Like I said, once we get all of Bruces posts strung together we can move on with other questions and topics.
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Credit? For what? He only had a count done and accidentally told on himself. This makes him stupid, not 'credit-worthy'. Now just tell us why you tried to pose as RB, Who.
Why did you create this login to pose as RobertBruce? What was your thinking there?
He won't answer this. He's caught lying yet again and just simply won't answer. He won't deny it, because it's already proven, but he'll avoid answering it at any cost, even if it makes him look worse, which it does.
FACT: TheWho created a login called "RobertBruce." and used it to try to pose as RobertBruce and make him look bad rather than engage in debate and dialogue. He's a troll. Plain and simple. He has also posted under several other usernames, but is too cowardly to admit what he's done. Robert got the coward part right.
Anyway, there's bigger fish to fry today. TheWho's beloved HLA is shutting its doors.
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Actually I have to give Thewho credit for putting all his posts out there like that for everyone to see and dissect. It shows that he has nothing to hide in his postings.
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Ha, ha, ha. Then why is he hiding if he has nothing to hide?
TheWho posed as RB. Why did you do that, Who? DJ knows you well. You obviously won't answer. But you did it and everyone knows you did! That's good enough for me. You can never be believed about anything after this.
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Too funny. TheWho created three different "RobertBruce" knock-off accounts. Obsessed a bit with this boy, Whootie? Why would anyone obsess like this over some kid on the internet?
TheWho's Three Fake RoberBruce Accounts (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?sk=a&sd=a&first_char=r&start=120) :roflmao: What a pathetic person. No wonder his kids are so fucked up! The live ones anyway. :waaaa: :rose: :heartbreak:
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"Psy wrote:
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Look this guy is nuts...He's a fifty some year old mess.. Please ignore the imbecile.. he has totally derailed the threads..accomplishing what he set out to do.
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Seems I was right about trying to take the focus off getting your posts strung together. I can see why you wouldnt want to do it Bruce. When you open yourself up like I did you have to have some pretty thick skin to stand up to what you wrote in the past.
Someone created 3 knock offs of RobertBruce and 4 knock offs of TheWho .... I wonder who created TheWho knock offs? My past is exposed and out there, I had/ have nothing to hide...
So I ask you again are you up to the task? Do you have something to hide?
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Actually John at the time I don't believe Psy was a mod. It was actually Deborah who linked your posts together, and lets not mince words, you didnt ask for anything, she tricked you into doing it. Plain and simple. You cried and cried about it later on, claiming posts that weren't yours had been attached to you, claiming your posts had been altered without your permission, blah blah blah. No one bought it, you were just owned time and time again. In addition the fact remains that what you're refering to now was only the first link up, at which point you had only been posting a few months, not two years. You're a liar John Reuben, and you're just upset at being held accountable.
Well lets take a look then shall we?
Oh here is a link to when I had my posts strung together Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=278562&sid=1865709764787aee12acd4973fb027ac&sid=1865709764787aee12acd4973fb027ac#p278562)
So you see Psy was a mod at the time and I emailed him confirming that he could string my guest posts together and psy did the work not Deborah (tsk,tsk,tsk cant you tell the truth about anything, Bruce?). You guys really need to start utilizing the database more. You make yourselves look so foolish when you just keep making things up and expecting everyone to believe it.
So, Bruce, now it is your turn. Get your guest posts strung together. Why does this frighten you so much? Its a very curious reaction for someone who claims they only have 5 guest posts. Hmmmm...
I will be glade to discuss any other topic with you once we resolve this one.
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Too funny. TheWho created three different "RobertBruce" knock-off accounts. Obsessed a bit with this boy, Whootie? Why would anyone obsess like this over some kid on the internet?
TheWho's Three Fake RoberBruce Accounts (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?sk=a&sd=a&first_char=r&start=120) :roflmao: What a pathetic person. No wonder his kids are so fucked up! The live ones anyway. :waaaa: :rose: :heartbreak:
Can't hide from this, Whootie. Too bad you weren't smart enough to think things through before you went and did something like this. Tsk, tsk, tsk. A fifty-something year old guy impersonating some teen on the internet to try to make the kid look bad. When you can't come out on top based on wits (grownup vs. teen) I guess you resort to this. This looks really bad for TheWho and other program parents. This is the type of people that send their kids away to be "fixed." One's that aren't smart enough to deal with a smart-alecky teen on the up and up.
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Too funny. TheWho created three different "RobertBruce" knock-off accounts. Obsessed a bit with this boy, Whootie? Why would anyone obsess like this over some kid on the internet?
TheWho's Three Fake RoberBruce Accounts (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?sk=a&sd=a&first_char=r&start=120) :roflmao: What a pathetic person. No wonder his kids are so fucked up! The live ones anyway. :waaaa: :rose: :heartbreak:
Can't hide from this, Whootie. Too bad you weren't smart enough to think things through before you went and did something like this. Tsk, tsk, tsk. A fifty-something year old guy impersonating some teen on the internet to try to make the kid look bad. When you can't come out on top based on wits (grownup vs. teen) I guess you resort to this. This looks really bad for TheWho and other program parents. This is the type of people that send their kids away to be "fixed." One's that aren't smart enough to deal with a smart-alecky teen on the up and up.
Sorry all of that upsets you so much, Bruce, but we need to stick to the deal. We cant go off-topic until you get your post strung together. After that we can discuss the topics you are interested in. There is plenty of time... but the longer you wait the worse it looks for you.
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Too funny. TheWho created three different "RobertBruce" knock-off accounts. Obsessed a bit with this boy, Whootie? Why would anyone obsess like this over some kid on the internet?
TheWho's Three Fake RoberBruce Accounts (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?sk=a&sd=a&first_char=r&start=120) :roflmao: What a pathetic person. No wonder his kids are so fucked up! The live ones anyway. :waaaa: :rose: :heartbreak:
Can't hide from this, Whootie. Too bad you weren't smart enough to think things through before you went and did something like this. Tsk, tsk, tsk. A fifty-something year old guy impersonating some teen on the internet to try to make the kid look bad. When you can't come out on top based on wits (grownup vs. teen) I guess you resort to this. This looks really bad for TheWho and other program parents. This is the type of people that send their kids away to be "fixed." One's that aren't smart enough to deal with a smart-alecky teen on the up and up.
Is RobertBruce really a teenager? I thought he went to HLA like 10 years ago,in the 1990's.
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Something like that, and no I haven't been a teenager in years.
You know if it were anyone else it would be almost sad, as it's John "thewho" Reuben, it's hilarious.
John, I work in a government office. I deal with sensitive information so internet access is highly restricted and heavily monitered. I can't access fornits from my office, even if I had the time. You spent all day arguing with me (and losing) when I wasn't even here.
It's apparent now that you believe the universe and fornits in particular revolve around you. "We aren't moving forward until you say what I want to hear." What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John? You've made this attempt with me before, and just like last time you ended up looking a mess. Clean yourself up son. You've been owned, utterly and completly. No one, not one single person is on your side, regarding this or anything else. You look like a fool. You're welcome to stay obsessed with me and this topic, the more you do the dumber you look. The more you look like the coward you are. The fact that you can't answer a simple question when a guest asked you a multitude of times speaks volumes. Here, watch you'll dodge it again:
John, if I was afraid to link up my guest posts, why did I ask Psy to do it on two seperate occasions?
..........
We're waiting on you Johnny. My posts have been linked up, the issue is resolved and done. Just because it didn't turn out the way you wanted to is irrellavent. As I illustrated to you the other day, you've lost every argument you've ever had on here. Why act surprised now?
I have to wonder if you really are this spineless and stupid, or if its just because you're desperate to protect your livlihood of kickbacks. Tell me something Johnny, how is that you can have your own testimony staring you right in the face, and still deny the truth. Your attempt to claim that Psy was the first to link up your post in 2007 is a lie. I proved it to you with your own post from 2006. There's no way around it. Are you really this dumb?
Probably. No matter though, onward and upward, stay on this if you want to, no one expected you to link up your post again, besides its always obvious when you post anyway.
So then the next question is, what if the closure rumor is true? Where will you start shipping kids off to next John? Any spoilers?
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It is true..he will send them to Ridge Creek School, via Leslie Goldberg, Lon Woodbury, etc, etc..
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I have to wonder if you really are this spineless and stupid, or if its just because you're desperate to protect your livlihood of kickbacks. Tell me something Johnny, how is that you can have your own testimony staring you right in the face, and still deny the truth. Your attempt to claim that Psy was the first to link up your post in 2007 is a lie. I proved it to you with your own post from 2006. There's no way around it. Are you really this dumb?
Probably. No matter though, onward and upward, stay on this if you want to, no one expected you to link up your post again, besides its always obvious when you post anyway.
So then the next question is, what if the closure rumor is true? Where will you start shipping kids off to next John? Any spoilers?
Like I said I had my posts linked up a couple of times, but never by Deborah (show us the link that says that). The first time was by Ginger and the second time was by Psy... so that still makes you a liar... gotta come up with the evidence Bruce if you want to make your point. The database supports me everytime.
So, I was hoping you would use the “Coward” word again. Let me know the next time you use it while you are on the run from having your guest posts strung together (I am sure you will always get a little tinge). Whenever you want to show us the post (like I have) that shows the breakdown of your 5 guest posts(lol), just post it up on the forum. I’ll be waiting....in the mean time the conversation stays right here... maybe you can use the time to actually have a conversation with other posters instead of myself. It might be good for you to branch out a little, maybe lick your wounds and try to forget about having your posts exposed. Just stay away from using the “Coward” word because that will always bring up memories that you turned and ran away.
Sorry I had to expose your weakness (or one of them) like this but remember that you started it with the guest posts dialog, not me. I am just holding you to the same standard.... its my job, remember!!! Ha,Ha,Ha
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:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Coward.
How many times is that? I'll run a search just as soon as I'm done with this post. Johnny, seriously, I just got done watching Conan, who I find to be hilarious, but laughing at you is somehow more fun.
So now your claim is that Ginger originally linked your posts up? Before you claimed that Psy was the first to do it. So which is it? Oh wait, let me rephrase; you in your forgotten posts claimed Ginger and Dysfunction linked up your posts. It's somehow taken you years to finally come to grips with the fact that Dysfunction is not now, nor has he ever been a moderator. Guess who was though? Deborah, the person who linked up your posts. I'll see what I can do to embarrass you on that one. Gotta love how you lost that editing ability don't you Whooter?
In the meantime for verification regarding my posts being linked up you'll have to speak to Psy, the same way you did the last time concerning your own posts. I'm sure he'd be glad to verify things for you, despite the fact that you're still too stupid to understand the truth. While you're at it though, please enlighten us all as to what you believe you exposed. Please stay away from your fond memories of the brief period you worked as a camp counselor and found yourself in the pool with a group of eleven year old boys. Save those stories for your next NAMBLA confrence. Focus on any points about other people you believe you've proven on here. I mean you keep claiming I'm running away from having my posts linked but you still (thanks again for proving me right) can't answer the question as to why I would repeatedly ask Psy to do that very thing. Watch, I'll do it again:
John, if I was afraid to link up my guest posts, why did I ask Psy to do it on two seperate occasions?
While you're dodging that due to the fact that you're a coward, work on accepting the fact that you're still not nearly as important as you think you are. The conversation goes where it goes, you're refusal to accept the 2+2 always equals 4 is irrellavent. You can kick and stomp as much as like Johnny, no one respects your opinion. You don't have any credibility here remember?
Fume about that while I go find those numbers for you.
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Only 66 posts with the word 'coward' in it, most of them directed towards you of course. That won't do at all. I'm really going to have to step it up here to highlight more of your cowardice.
Let's get started:
John, if I was afraid to link up my guest posts, why did I ask Psy to do it on two seperate occasions?
?
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Sorry, Bruce, first of all the truth is in the database for all to see.... I have had my posts linked together by Ginger and psy. Nothing you can do or say can get you out from under your lies. No matter how hard you try you cannot change history and make everyone believe Deborah strung together my posts. You were caught in a lie (as usual) and I exposed it (as Usual). So just try to make peace with that again.
Secondly... sting!!! all I can picture is you running away looking over your shoulder yelling... "Coward".... lol This will be forever associated with that word for you. You were that kid, robert, in school who had no problem making fun of others when they stood up to speak but called in sick when it was your turn. You prove it to us every day.
Third... I saw that question mark again. tsk.tsk Remember no more questions until you man up and expose your posts, Robert. All this crying over having to expose your posts you would think you had something to hide...oh wait!!!
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Lols. Rifle-dropping, draft-dodging, program parent advises someone to "man up.". What the hell do you know about manning up??
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Is there some point to the ridiculous, childish game that a handful, or less, of you are playing here? It's banal shit like this that gives fornits a bad name with adults and teens with an IQ anything over 80. For Christ's sake, grow up. Post something here that's meaningful or just shut up.
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Still the coward then Johnny? It's amazing to me how you believe me proving you wrong is somehow you exposing a lie. I guess in Whoville that makes sense. Whatever helps you sleep at night Johnny, no one else here buys it.
I actually quite enjoyed public speaking in school so time once again for you to face the music.
John, if I was afraid to link up my guest posts, why did I ask Psy to do it on two seperate occasions?
?
We aren't moving forward till you answer that question John.
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Still the coward then Johnny? It's amazing to me how you believe me proving you wrong is somehow you exposing a lie. I guess in Whoville that makes sense. Whatever helps you sleep at night Johnny, no one else here buys it.
I actually quite enjoyed public speaking in school so time once again for you to face the music.
John, if I was afraid to link up my guest posts, why did I ask Psy to do it on two seperate occasions?
?
We aren't moving forward till you answer that question John.
Sting!!! I know what thought that word brought to your head!!
Trying is noble in some parts of the world, Bruce, but we are Still waiting for you to get the job done like I did. Why is this so painful for you? Keep running if you will, but we will still be here waiting when you come back.........Sorry buddy.
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i dont understand thewho. why dont you just answer his question? it would seem to make sense that he isnt afraid of something if he volunteered for it several times.
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i dont understand thewho. why dont you just answer his question? it would seem to make sense that he isnt afraid of something if he volunteered for it several times.
Volunteering and actually showing up to do the work are two different things. Nobody is rushing you, being passive and sitting next to the phone for weeks on end waiting for a phone call doesn’t help the cause to move forward. Eventually a person has to become proactive, advocate for himself and make things happen (if he really wants them to).
When you get your posts strung together and stop running from it then we can move forward. Sitting by the phone, waiting for something to happen doesnt insure results. We will let you figure out for yourself how you want to proceed. If you are afraid of what you posted in the past then I suspect the work will not get done. Either way over time we will get the answer.
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thewho mr. bruce asking twice is being proactive. he can't link the post up himself but he can ask the admins to do it for him. you claiming hes afraid of having his posts linked up still doesnt jive with the fact that he asked the admins to do it weeks ago on more then one occasion. you keep avoiding that point. if he was afraid to do it why would he ask for it to be done?
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Robert could you start a new thread just for you and John Reuben?
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Sorry Bruce, the results are what we are looking for. If you want to ask a couple of times and then sit back and say it cant be done your not fooling anyone. I have had it done twice. If you want to keep running that is fine.... if you dont want to have your past posts revealed just say so. This postponement just makes it look a lot worse for you.
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What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
Scream it from the heavens, put it on every AM and FM channel, put it in the META tags of every page on the Internet, crop circle it so it's visible from space, tattoo it on your forehead in mirror writing so you read it every time you brush your teeth, THIS is the final message that all of the multi-thousand posts made by TheWho or any other whing troll ultimately result in.
What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
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What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
Scream it from the heavens, put it on every AM and FM channel, put it in the META tags of every page on the Internet, crop circle it so it's visible from space, tattoo it on your forehead in mirror writing so you read it every time you brush your teeth, THIS is the final message that all of the multi-thousand posts made by TheWho or any other whing troll ultimately result in.
What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
Exactly, this is the classic walk away line from someone who has lost. I had warned you you earlier on that it would have been easier on you to just say you didnt want to reveal your posts and you wanted to keep them private. That would have been okay, I told you this. If you had just been up front and honest we could have avoided all this. Now it seems obvious that you are hiding something that you are afraid to expose to the readers.
You brought this on yourself, Bruce. I tried to help you out.
I like the "writing it on the forehead" the best. Thats pretty funny.
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*YAWN*
Are you seriously still at this? Are you really this obsessed with me? Still talking to me when I'm not here? If you did kill your wife at least we all know why.
You keep avoiding the single question John. You do because you are a coward (70?)
John, if I was afraid to link up my guest posts, why did I ask Psy to do it on two seperate occasions?
Let us know, then we can move forward.
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What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
Scream it from the heavens, put it on every AM and FM channel, put it in the META tags of every page on the Internet, crop circle it so it's visible from space, tattoo it on your forehead in mirror writing so you read it every time you brush your teeth, THIS is the final message that all of the multi-thousand posts made by TheWho or any other whing troll ultimately result in.
What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
What makes you think I or anyone else gives a shit what you want John?
Exactly, this is the classic walk away line from someone who has lost. I had warned you you earlier on that it would have been easier on you to just say you didnt want to reveal your posts and you wanted to keep them private. That would have been okay, I told you this. If you had just been up front and honest we could have avoided all this. Now it seems obvious that you are hiding something that you are afraid to expose to the readers.
You brought this on yourself, Bruce. I tried to help you out.
I like the "writing it on the forehead" the best. Thats pretty funny.
Robert just send all his rantings to his colleagues. This is ridiculous.
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you are a coward (70?)
Sting!!! (A little self-conscious when you say this now?) Sorry, Bruce, I can see you looking over your shoulder now. You can run, but we all know that you will come back. But you will have to face the music at some point. either you will have your posts strung together or you will not... just choose one... easy one. lol
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Robert just send all his rantings to his colleagues. This is ridiculous.
This is ridiculous and nuts, I wonder why Robert is digging in his heals so far? If I were him I would just have my posts strung together. Whats the big deal anyway?
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Robert just send all his rantings to his colleagues. This is ridiculous.
This is ridiculous and nuts, I wonder why Robert is digging in his heals so far? If I were him I would just have my posts strung together. Whats the big deal anyway?
Its obvious he has something to hide. Now I am curious myself on how many "user names" he had. I wonder if he has more guest posts than thewho?
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if he had something to hide it doesnt seem like he'd repeatedly ask the admins to link his posts. if hes telling the truth and the few guest posts he claims to have were all very old there wouldnt be a way to see them right away. it seems more that thewho isnt interested in the truth instead he just wants to deflect from other issues namely his own.
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Look give it up who. There is no way in hell Bruce is going to show us his guest posts, if he was he would have done it by now. Even though I cannot stand what you write I have to give you credit for exposing you guest posts each time you were asked. It shows you stand behind what you post.
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if he had something to hide it doesnt seem like he'd repeatedly ask the admins to link his posts. if hes telling the truth and the few guest posts he claims to have were all very old there wouldnt be a way to see them right away. it seems more that thewho isnt interested in the truth instead he just wants to deflect from other issues namely his own.
Maybe the problem is that Bruce never presented the post that shows the breakdown of his guest postings like thewho was able to show us. Bruce says the work was done but we havent seen posts from any of the admins. I think a link to the results would help settle this.
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that would seem to then be a question to post to the admins. thewhos confirmation came from the mods its not like he did it himself. but the fact remains that mr. bruce did ask the admins on more then one occasion to link up his guest posts. thewhos claims that mr. bruce is somehow afraid to have it done or hes hiding something have no basis in reality. if he was afraid of it why would he keep asking?
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that would seem to then be a question to post to the admins. thewhos confirmation came from the mods its not like he did it himself. but the fact remains that mr. bruce did ask the admins on more then one occasion to link up his guest posts. thewhos claims that mr. bruce is somehow afraid to have it done or hes hiding something have no basis in reality. if he was afraid of it why would he keep asking?
Well I think we all believe this because in one post he says he already had his posts strung together... then when we ask for confirmation he changes his answer to.. well I asked but its not done yet... So you can see that either way he is lying. He isnt being sincere and is avoiding having his posts exposed the same way thewho did. Thewho might be an ass but at least he produced the evidence of his postings and didnt give us this run around like Bruce is doing to us.
We all know this is pretty basic..... get your posts strung together and produce the results.
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that would seem to then be a question to post to the admins. thewhos confirmation came from the mods its not like he did it himself. but the fact remains that mr. bruce did ask the admins on more then one occasion to link up his guest posts. thewhos claims that mr. bruce is somehow afraid to have it done or hes hiding something have no basis in reality. if he was afraid of it why would he keep asking?
Well I think we all believe this because in one post he says he already had his posts strung together... then when we ask for confirmation he changes his answer to.. well I asked but its not done yet... So you can see that either way he is lying. He isnt being sincere and is avoiding having his posts exposed the same way thewho did. Thewho might be an ass but at least he produced the evidence of his postings and didnt give us this run around like Bruce is doing to us.
We all know this is pretty basic..... get your posts strung together and produce the results.
Well, that is a good point. I guess he has his reasons for not wanting everyone to see them. Maybe we should just leave him alone.
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Let me see if I can clear this up. He asked. Repeatedly. I haven't done it for a couple of reasons.
First, even if I do link all the posts from a particular address that doesn't prove that the same person isn't posting through a proxy or from some other location. Not that I personally would expect RB to be dodgy that way. Just that linking some posts doesn't prove the absence of others.
Second, even if it were possible to prove the above, the whooter would just call us all liars.
Third, 1+3 = feeding the troll.... and I try not to do that. I'd just wind up getting wrapped up into whooterland crazieness and I really, really don't need that.
Just ignore the asshole!
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Ginger, that's a little bit difficult when he spams up entire pages with endless self-replies.
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Well John, there you have it. Proof positive that I have nothing to hide. Whatever claims you have about my being a coward or trying to hide something have just been blown out of the water. Anyone who so ardently pursues having something exposed obviously isnt afraid of the truth.
What does still remain is the fact that you are a coward, you're still afraid of the truth, and you're still a moron. Once again you've lost. Whenever you clean the mud off your face a little bit get back to me and I'll be glad to put you in your place once again.
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Let me see if I can clear this up. He asked. Repeatedly. I haven't done it for a couple of reasons.
First, even if I do link all the posts from a particular address that doesn't prove that the same person isn't posting through a proxy or from some other location. Not that I personally would expect RB to be dodgy that way. Just that linking some posts doesn't prove the absence of others.
Second, even if it were possible to prove the above, the whooter would just call us all liars.
Third, 1+3 = feeding the troll.... and I try not to do that. I'd just wind up getting wrapped up into whooterland crazieness and I really, really don't need that.
Just ignore the asshole!
Bull, It was easy enough to do mine!
Ask Psy then:
1) Run a query which lists all the ips which are attached to the user name RobertBruce.
2) Those ips will identify all the posts which belong to Bruce.
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coward,
Sting!!! It has to still hurt!! Mine were done Bruce. The deal still stands. Ginger was right about one thing, if it isnt done and done right it will be a lie. Ginger knows that it is easy to recognize a persons style whether they are logged in or not.
Your still running Bruce... seems you just asked for help to get you out of your lies... keep running.
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No, it was easy back then with the old software. Things are much more complicated now. I can easily identify posts made from the same IP address. Reasigning authorship is another matter.
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You are pathetic. Ginger, please get this freak off here. This has been weeks of garbage, enough already.
-
I realize that John is a little older then some of us, but they still had to have aptitude test when he was in school. Couldn't they have recognized then how retarded this man is and just put an end to it then?
John, you've been proven definitevly wrong. If I really was guest posting, and really had so much to hide, why would I repeatedly ask Psy and Ginger to link up my five guest posts from years ago? Repeatedly John, on the board, in PM's, over phone calls even, just because I love proving you wrong so much. Now you have Ginger here publically stating to you that I have indeed made many requests, and you still somehow keep missing it.
John, the fact that you're afraid of the truth is what makes you a coward. It doesn't "sting" me at all, because not only do I know the truth, not only am I unafraid of it, not only do I embrace it, but the veracity of my statements has been verified for you. You are so beyond brainwashed into this industry you don't recognize anything but what you want to see.
Stay on this if you want to, but there's nothing left to talk about. No one expected you to ever own up to your comments anyway, even if you were never any good at hiding them.
You can't get around that simple unalienable truth that I dogged Ginger and Psy to link up those posts. By your own statement I've proven my case, look:
Eventually a person has to become proactive, advocate for himself and make things happen (if he really wants them to).
It doesnt get anymore proactive John. By your own standards I surpassed the bar, I never had anything to hide. You have once again been owned, even if you are too stupid to see it.
So again, stay focused on this if you want, you're the only one who looks the fool. For someone so obsessed with credibility you sure do burn through it. If you have anymore questions, you know how to reach me, and I you. Unless of course you're so ashamed you have to tuck tail and pretend to run away to Russia again. :seg:
-
No one asked you to attempt to get your posts strung together. We need to wait for it to be done. You have been lying to us all along. Why is that, Bruce. Why did you tell us that you already had your posts strung together when this wasnt true?
I have a post from Ginger that says this isnt so and supports my statement that you were lying to us... Do I need to show you the link? Why would you lie to us if you didnt have anything to hide? You have not been truthful through out this whole thread. Clean yourself up and get this resolved, okay?
-
There you go John, you've accepted one point, understood you were wrong, and now you're moving forward. Good job! This shows real progress. As a reward I will answer your question. Keep up the good work!
Why is that, Bruce. Why did you tell us that you already had your posts strung together when this wasnt true?
Because I was telling the truth all along John. When the whole conversation started several weeks ago I told you that I had probably five guest posts, none more recent then the past year. I told you there wasn't anything worth linking up, and even if they were linked up, I wouldnt have any idea of where they might be. All 100% true, I still don't guest post, as I don't have the need to do so. After asking repeatedly, Ginger and Psy both told me that linking up guest posts is no longer as simple as it once was, plus they both think you're a huge waste of time. Couple that with Ginger's statement last night commenting on the fact that even if they did add my five, and confirm it on the board, you wouldn't accept it anyway. You would claim that because Ginger and I are friends, that she was just covering for me. So honestly, if you're afraid of the truth, and don't believe it when it's given to you, what's the next step?
I have a post from Ginger that says this isnt so and supports my statement that you were lying to us... Do I need to show you the link? Why would you lie to us if you didnt have anything to hide?
Well what you actually have is a post from Ginger confirming that you were wrong the whole time. You continued to believe that not only was I reguarly guest posting, and as you claim, "attacking from the shadows", but was afraid to have those posts exposed. You claimed I was running from the truth, and that if I really wanted my guest post linked up I would be "proactive" in getting the job done. You claimed that otherwise it looked like I had something to hide. Well Ginger shut you down. She explained to you that I had been asking over and over again to have my five guest posts linked up. She proved you wrong using your own standards. A man suspected of murder doesnt offer a DNA sample, or volunteer for a polygraph test John. She saw your argument and proved me right by using it against you.
So then, now that the issue has been resolved, do you have any further questions? If you'd like to remain on the subject of lies, I have several of yours I'd be interested to hear your motivation on. Let me know John.
-
No one asked you to attempt to get your posts strung together. We need to wait for it to be done
My apologies John, I didnt catch this until after I posted my previous comment. Allow me to respond:
You wait,the rest of us are moving on. I tried to explain to you weeks ago there was nothing worth linking up, but you refused to accept the truth. You were only willing to accept your preconcieved notions which you had no basis for. You had the same question put you over and over again, which you were unable to answer. Over and over again I asked why if I was afraid of the truth, would I ask psy to link up my guest posts on multiple occasions? Each time you came up empty for an answer. Finally yesterday afternoon you came up with what you thought was a definitive response. You claimed that if I really had nothing to hide, and wanted the job done, I'd be more proactive then just asking twice.
Ginger caught your comment and again, used your own standards against you. She stated publically that I had been after her and Psy for weeks to "get the job done" The response I got from them over and over again was that because there were so few, and the posts were so old, it was too much trouble. It wouldnt be the same situation for you, as you have always guest posted, but for me who doesn't guest posts, the task was a little more arduous and pointless.
I'm not sure if I can make it any more clear John, there's nothing to link up. The five guest posts I have are from years ago, and I don't believe any of them involve conversations with you. I've never had any other usernames then this one. I've never posted under any other guises but who I actually am, and what my connection to this industry is. Can you truthfully say those same things about yourself? Ginger knows I'm telling the truth, heard my repeated request, and used your own argument against you.
-
Exactly when did this conversation become about supposed guest posts made by a forum member?
The labeled topic is "Current HLA Staff", of which there are a sharply decreasing number (hopefully, soon to be zero).
Congratulations. You've let it derail yet another thread with its infinite whining.
Can't you ban its IP in Apache or something so it gets nothing but "Server not found"?
-
Exactly when did this conversation become about supposed guest posts made by a forum member?
The labeled topic is "Current HLA Staff", of which there are a sharply decreasing number (hopefully, soon to be zero).
Congratulations. You've let it derail yet another thread with its infinite whining.
Can't you ban its IP in Apache or something so it gets nothing but "Server not found"?
AMEN
-
As much as we would all get a kick out of that Ginger wouldn't allow it. As much as people like John Reuben and all those like him who support child abuse sicken her, she doesnt believe in trying to silence them or control them the way they all tried to silence and control us.
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Nice try Bruce, but no go. First you stated that you asked to have you posts strung together and the admins told you “What posts? There are none to string together”. Then you told us that you asked to have your posts strung together but didn’t get a response. Then later you told us that you had 5 guest posts and that they have already been strung together.
Finally we were able to get Ginger to respond and tell us that your posts were never even looked at or strung together like you had claimed. She confirmed that you were lying all along. I have exposed your lies here at every turn and the admins here have confirmed it.
So we will wait until you can get the job done, Bruce. I think you should use your time a little more constructively and try to have conversations with other people instead of trolling. When you get the job done we can continue and I will answer any question you like, but until then try to be more constructive with your time and contribute more to the forum.
-
Exactly when did this conversation become about supposed guest posts made by a forum member?
The labeled topic is "Current HLA Staff", of which there are a sharply decreasing number (hopefully, soon to be zero).
Congratulations. You've let it derail yet another thread with its infinite whining.
Can't you ban its IP in Apache or something so it gets nothing but "Server not found"?
I agree with you that Bruce should have started a new thread instead of going after thewho again on this thread. But trying to ban him isnt the answer. Thewho has done alot worse and he is still posting here. I think if the admins ask Bruce to try to start separate threads in the future and troll him there it would be much less disruptive and those of us who dont want to read the crap wont be forced to wade thru it all to read the few posts which were on topic.
-
Pleeeeeaaaase don’t bring this up again, we went thru this with thewho in painful detail. First of all this is an open forum and no one should be banned. The trolling is difficult to put up with but is the price we all pay for keeping the forum open and unmoderated. Yes, it would be helpful if Robert would take his beef with thewho to another thread instead of destroying yet another topic. But we cant force him or threaten him with being banned.
To Bruce and thewho: please refrain from your bickering in the middle of topics of discussion. Take it elsewhere for the sake of others who post here besides your self.
-
Here is where we left off:
belive it or not, HLA got very luxurious for a period.
they built 3 new dorms, each with the capacity for around 70 kids. you might have seen the first one, which was a few hundred feet past the academic building. the girl's dorm was pretty luxurious. HUGE common room with twin-story windows and skylights, three floors, and to be honest it beats any college dorm i have ever seen in most categories. one of your old dorms were turned into a counselor building, and the bottom floor of the old academic building which once housed kids was renovated for classrooms. of course, that whole building along with the Admin building burned down, leaving the new academic building which was also a nice facility. they also added a section to the lodge at some point. I dont know how old the gym is, you might have been there for it, was a pretty nice facility compared to the older buildings. it also used to have a rug floor, they replaced that with polished concrete. they also added a bathroom to lower left, and two new dorms at ridge creek. they also built horse stables.
they also built a small townhouse-style development with around 20 housing units where staff lived a few hundred yards down the road. a funny observation: despite being within very easy walking distance from campus, the staff who lived there would still drive their cars to school and park in the parking lot by the gym. wouldn't even carpool.
they accomplished that because for a while HLA had up to 200 students at a time + up to a hundred at ridge creek. even with an almost 1:1 staff/student ratio they were amassing huge amounts of capital. they idiotically dumped all that capital into making the school look nice and handle more students. unfortunately for them they didnt realize that first of all, the land itself cant handle that many people. every summer the water would dry up, we only got to shower once every few days for a timed amount sometimes, and only flush the toilet when we #2. the septic system would overflow even with a hundred or so students, and spill over into the lake. on some days you could smell the septic overflow all over campus, particularly in the mornings. that and the way they were running the school, the type of school it is, doesn't work with that many people. you cant have therapy, immaculate supervision and accountability with that many people no matter how many staff you hire.
alas, STILL no chapel.
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Ridge Creek came after my time. When I was there they did something called "interventions" which meant basically that a kid was sent out in the woods for an indefinite amount of time, with a limited amount of supplies, depending on the infraction. The kid in question was completly pulled out of school. This was never deemed an issue because academics always came secondary anyway, and teachers were not allowed to fail the students. So then with Ridge Creek, I'm wondering if someone can go into what the educational components of it were.
-
Exactly when did this conversation become about supposed guest posts made by a forum member?
The labeled topic is "Current HLA Staff", of which there are a sharply decreasing number (hopefully, soon to be zero).
Congratulations. You've let it derail yet another thread with its infinite whining.
Can't you ban its IP in Apache or something so it gets nothing but "Server not found"?
AMEN
LOL
This is what Who does, he derails all serious, productive discussions.
It's sabotage.
Ginger banned him. Psy reinstated him. Ginger says ignore him.
LOL Doesn't work.
Try it. Ignore him when he starts derailing. See what happens.
He'll simply argue with himself or create a fictional character to argue with.
There is no "ignoring him". Not effective.
Ginger and Psy gave him free reign.
If he stalked and spammed either of them to the degree he spams the HLA forum or RB, they may have a
different reaction.
He has rendered Fornits all but useless. Look at this thread. It would be pointless to pick up with
the topic again because anyone coming here to gather information will have stopped reading pages
ago when it was derailed. Another wasted thread. And so it goes.
-
^Pessimist?
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ) ... ty-members
•Baker, Jim
•Bell, Kristin
•Brown, Trey
•Buccellato, Len
•Klein, Matt
•Smith, Scott
•Stapp, Joe
•Stevens, Hawley
•Sumpter, Walter
•Tanner, Sam
Jill Ryan
Len Buccellato
President and Founder
B.S. Psychology - Fordham University,
M.A. Educational Psychology - University of Georgia, Ph.D. Counseling and Psychological Services - Georgia State University.
Licensed Psychologist in Georgia since 1975
Hopefully not for much longer
This is good news. Buccellato can now take responsibility according to the Psychology Board and the ORS docs for the guidance of 3 unlicensed people instead of the 12 ,which placed him in ethical violation according to Georgia's Psychology Board statutes.
that list is definitely incomplete.
HLA has an infrastructure that must be maintained. Who cooks the food? who does maintenance? night supervision? i know theres no more night staff at the dorms, but surely there has to be at least one person on campus at all times... How about washing sheets? it's illegal for the kids to do it themselves, if they are still washing the entire campus at once. they used to have hick woman w/ a beard sitting around washing the sheets all week. how about administration? finances? coaching?
how exactly are these kids getting a high school education? i see only one person that could be considered a teacher - hawley. sam tanner maybe, but my 11th grade geometry with sam was just a review of 6th grade arithmetic with shapes. and i got to sleep on the floor when i was done with my two minute worksheet every day.
where is the so called "supervision" and "accountability" HLA loves to talk about?
one of these two are true:
1. HLA is lying about their staff, and omitting anyone non-essential, unqualified, or hick-looking.
2. thats really all the staff they have, and the kids are tearing each other to pieces. massive anal hemorrhaging caused by mansausage rape is occurring at night to the weakest links. HLA was bad enough with at least two staff for every fifteen or so kids in any given location. when i was there, there were almost 200 kids and nearly that many staff. are there like five kids left or something? i hope so.
and how about the mail room? a NURSE? (for giving out the meds and other necessary tasks, duh). how about the dentists office in the back of the gym? or did they sell that equipment? in that case, who drives the kids on medical visits? how exactly do they manage to teach both 8th and 9th graders, along with seniors and post-seniors with that many staff? do they put 8th and 12th graders in the same english class? math class? is there even any schooling going on there? is there even a librarian left? a registrar?
I am sure you are right there must be more employees, some places just list their professional staff members. As far as kids not being allowed to wash sheets that must be a Georgia law. We always did laundry when we were growing up and general cleaning. Is there a health hazard associated with doing sheets specifically? Can kids wash other items like their own clothes?
Except they always listed all the staff in the past. There really isnt a reason to list maintenance staff for the school as the kids are forced to do all the work anyway. As for sheets, during my own incarceration there we always did our own. Not sure why the policy changed, unless some kids just weren't doing it.
You have to remember that most of these kids had access to a very good education system prior to HLA and refused to even show up. So any parent would be happy to have their kid in a class room even if they just slept on the floor. It has to be better than not being there at all.
Most of them? I'd like to see a basis for that claim. Further how is the "no fail" in place at HLA conducive to a higher education? How is a kid who leaves and returns to public or private school by any means prepared since he's already so far behind. Even better, how is such a kid prepared for college? Two minute work sheets and then nap time? Not at the college I went to.
I would guess they are not listing all the employees, plus with the turnover rate it would be a task to keep the web site current. I cant figure out from your post whether you think having a hick (as you call it) doing the sheets and food or having the kids doing it is preferable.
So what are your thoughts on them not having a nurse now? Still not an issue?
When has Buchi ever cared about state requirements? The only reason he would have changed the policy was if he was forced to, or if it somehow benefited his bottom line. When I was locked up we had washing machines all in the dorms. I'm not sure what was later refered to as "the restriction shack", but we definitely didnt have a pool. There was a tennis court that no one was ever allowed to use. Right next to it was a converted green house that had been used for restrictions until it was decided that was too comfortable, so an open air pavilion was built on the opposite side of the lack where the kids could be kept out in the elements, regardless of weather. Somehow this too was deemed more theraputic.
when i was there, there were two buildings down at the lake.
one was a larger building (~2000sqft) which was originally a dorm, then converted to an indoor pool, then back to a regular building again because the pool was too high maintenance. that building was called the SAC (Student Activity Center) and had a tv, some game tables, some arcade machines, and a jukebox. there was a shack next to it (~300-500 sqft) closer to the tennis court which housed landscaping equipment, tennis equipment, fishing equipment, and the sheets laundry. the pavilion at the lake there was never really used for restrictions, it was used as a lounge area on weekends for the student body, and for events like a watermelon-eating contest. the current pool was built somewhere near the lake where the SAC was, but i'm not sure whether or not and which buildings the pool replaced.
there were three other areas that were used more extensively by restrictions: lower left field, where the stream diversion was built and the kids gradually cleared the field further to the "left" of trees to make room for more field space. problem was they didnt count on the field swamping up sans the trees eleven months out of the year. There was a shack with no insulation - just a plywood box with a roof and windows along with a fireplace, that was located by lower left when taking the trail up to RCI, but making a right around the lake. further down that trail was a pavillion in the woods that was used for restrictions also; both structures were there for isolating the bad kids during grandparents day, graduation, dogwood fest, and any other events or emergencies where members of the 'public' were on campus.
The problem with HLA is unlicensed persons dispensing narcotic drugs to minors.
one was a larger building (~2000sqft) which was originally a dorm, then converted to an indoor pool, then back to a regular building again because the pool was too high maintenance. that building was called the SAC (Student Activity Center) and had a tv, some game tables, some arcade machines, and a jukebox. there was a shack next to it (~300-500 sqft) closer to the tennis court which housed landscaping equipment, tennis equipment, fishing equipment, and the sheets laundry. the pavilion at the lake there was never really used for restrictions, it was used as a lounge area on weekends for the student body, and for events like a watermelon-eating contest. the current pool was built somewhere near the lake where the SAC was, but i'm not sure whether or not and which buildings the pool replaced.
The building you're talking about was dorm 5 was I was locked up. The shack next to it must be what we called the green house, unless they tore that down and replaced with a shack. At the time there was nothing in there but some benches and a table, it was only used for restrictions. I'm not sure if we're talking about the same pavillion. Unless they moved it, you wouldnt want this place as a lounge area. I know there was a gazebo right on the lake across from the dorm, maybe that's it. This thing was an actual pavillion and it was on the far side of the lake from the buildings and pushed way back in the woods far from the lake. It was where we were all kept while on restrictions.
As to a non licensed person dispensing meds, this has always been the norm at HLA.
These are questions that should be directed to the managing attonery Nina Edidin at the ORS. Her email: Nina J Edidin < http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ) ... ty-members
•Baker, Jim
•Bell, Kristin
•Brown, Trey
•Buccellato, Len
•Klein, Matt
•Smith, Scott
•Stapp, Joe
•Stevens, Hawley
•Sumpter, Walter
•Tanner, Sam
-
Ten little, nine little....
•Baker, Jim
•Brown, Trey
•Buccellato, Len
•Klein, Matt
•Smith, Scott
•Stapp, Joe
•Stevens, Hawley
•Sumpter, Walter
•Tanner, Sam
-
Exactly when did this conversation become about supposed guest posts made by a forum member?
The labeled topic is "Current HLA Staff", of which there are a sharply decreasing number (hopefully, soon to be zero).
Congratulations. You've let it derail yet another thread with its infinite whining.
Can't you ban its IP in Apache or something so it gets nothing but "Server not found"?
AMEN
LOL
This is what Who does, he derails all serious, productive discussions.
It's sabotage.
Ginger banned him. Psy reinstated him. Ginger says ignore him.
LOL Doesn't work.
Try it. Ignore him when he starts derailing. See what happens.
He'll simply argue with himself or create a fictional character to argue with.
There is no "ignoring him". Not effective.
Ginger and Psy gave him free reign.
If he stalked and spammed either of them to the degree he spams the HLA forum or RB, they may have a
different reaction.
He has rendered Fornits all but useless. Look at this thread. It would be pointless to pick up with
the topic again because anyone coming here to gather information will have stopped reading pages
ago when it was derailed. Another wasted thread. And so it goes.
Thewho was the one trying to ignore RB's trolling. Thewho attempted to get it back on topic several times.
Nice try though. Are you derailing too?
-
^No but you seem to be...
^Pessimist?
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ) ... ty-members
•Baker, Jim
•Bell, Kristin
•Brown, Trey
•Buccellato, Len
•Klein, Matt
•Smith, Scott
•Stapp, Joe
•Stevens, Hawley
•Sumpter, Walter
•Tanner, Sam
Jill Ryan
Len Buccellato
President and Founder
B.S. Psychology - Fordham University,
M.A. Educational Psychology - University of Georgia, Ph.D. Counseling and Psychological Services - Georgia State University.
Licensed Psychologist in Georgia since 1975
Hopefully not for much longer
This is good news. Buccellato can now take responsibility according to the Psychology Board and the ORS docs for the guidance of 3 unlicensed people instead of the 12 ,which placed him in ethical violation according to Georgia's Psychology Board statutes.
that list is definitely incomplete.
HLA has an infrastructure that must be maintained. Who cooks the food? who does maintenance? night supervision? i know theres no more night staff at the dorms, but surely there has to be at least one person on campus at all times... How about washing sheets? it's illegal for the kids to do it themselves, if they are still washing the entire campus at once. they used to have hick woman w/ a beard sitting around washing the sheets all week. how about administration? finances? coaching?
how exactly are these kids getting a high school education? i see only one person that could be considered a teacher - hawley. sam tanner maybe, but my 11th grade geometry with sam was just a review of 6th grade arithmetic with shapes. and i got to sleep on the floor when i was done with my two minute worksheet every day.
where is the so called "supervision" and "accountability" HLA loves to talk about?
one of these two are true:
1. HLA is lying about their staff, and omitting anyone non-essential, unqualified, or hick-looking.
2. thats really all the staff they have, and the kids are tearing each other to pieces. massive anal hemorrhaging caused by mansausage rape is occurring at night to the weakest links. HLA was bad enough with at least two staff for every fifteen or so kids in any given location. when i was there, there were almost 200 kids and nearly that many staff. are there like five kids left or something? i hope so.
and how about the mail room? a NURSE? (for giving out the meds and other necessary tasks, duh). how about the dentists office in the back of the gym? or did they sell that equipment? in that case, who drives the kids on medical visits? how exactly do they manage to teach both 8th and 9th graders, along with seniors and post-seniors with that many staff? do they put 8th and 12th graders in the same english class? math class? is there even any schooling going on there? is there even a librarian left? a registrar?
I am sure you are right there must be more employees, some places just list their professional staff members. As far as kids not being allowed to wash sheets that must be a Georgia law. We always did laundry when we were growing up and general cleaning. Is there a health hazard associated with doing sheets specifically? Can kids wash other items like their own clothes?
Except they always listed all the staff in the past. There really isnt a reason to list maintenance staff for the school as the kids are forced to do all the work anyway. As for sheets, during my own incarceration there we always did our own. Not sure why the policy changed, unless some kids just weren't doing it.
You have to remember that most of these kids had access to a very good education system prior to HLA and refused to even show up. So any parent would be happy to have their kid in a class room even if they just slept on the floor. It has to be better than not being there at all.
Most of them? I'd like to see a basis for that claim. Further how is the "no fail" in place at HLA conducive to a higher education? How is a kid who leaves and returns to public or private school by any means prepared since he's already so far behind. Even better, how is such a kid prepared for college? Two minute work sheets and then nap time? Not at the college I went to.
I would guess they are not listing all the employees, plus with the turnover rate it would be a task to keep the web site current. I cant figure out from your post whether you think having a hick (as you call it) doing the sheets and food or having the kids doing it is preferable.
So what are your thoughts on them not having a nurse now? Still not an issue?
When has Buchi ever cared about state requirements? The only reason he would have changed the policy was if he was forced to, or if it somehow benefited his bottom line. When I was locked up we had washing machines all in the dorms. I'm not sure what was later refered to as "the restriction shack", but we definitely didnt have a pool. There was a tennis court that no one was ever allowed to use. Right next to it was a converted green house that had been used for restrictions until it was decided that was too comfortable, so an open air pavilion was built on the opposite side of the lack where the kids could be kept out in the elements, regardless of weather. Somehow this too was deemed more theraputic.
when i was there, there were two buildings down at the lake.
one was a larger building (~2000sqft) which was originally a dorm, then converted to an indoor pool, then back to a regular building again because the pool was too high maintenance. that building was called the SAC (Student Activity Center) and had a tv, some game tables, some arcade machines, and a jukebox. there was a shack next to it (~300-500 sqft) closer to the tennis court which housed landscaping equipment, tennis equipment, fishing equipment, and the sheets laundry. the pavilion at the lake there was never really used for restrictions, it was used as a lounge area on weekends for the student body, and for events like a watermelon-eating contest. the current pool was built somewhere near the lake where the SAC was, but i'm not sure whether or not and which buildings the pool replaced.
there were three other areas that were used more extensively by restrictions: lower left field, where the stream diversion was built and the kids gradually cleared the field further to the "left" of trees to make room for more field space. problem was they didnt count on the field swamping up sans the trees eleven months out of the year. There was a shack with no insulation - just a plywood box with a roof and windows along with a fireplace, that was located by lower left when taking the trail up to RCI, but making a right around the lake. further down that trail was a pavillion in the woods that was used for restrictions also; both structures were there for isolating the bad kids during grandparents day, graduation, dogwood fest, and any other events or emergencies where members of the 'public' were on campus.
The problem with HLA is unlicensed persons dispensing narcotic drugs to minors.
one was a larger building (~2000sqft) which was originally a dorm, then converted to an indoor pool, then back to a regular building again because the pool was too high maintenance. that building was called the SAC (Student Activity Center) and had a tv, some game tables, some arcade machines, and a jukebox. there was a shack next to it (~300-500 sqft) closer to the tennis court which housed landscaping equipment, tennis equipment, fishing equipment, and the sheets laundry. the pavilion at the lake there was never really used for restrictions, it was used as a lounge area on weekends for the student body, and for events like a watermelon-eating contest. the current pool was built somewhere near the lake where the SAC was, but i'm not sure whether or not and which buildings the pool replaced.
The building you're talking about was dorm 5 was I was locked up. The shack next to it must be what we called the green house, unless they tore that down and replaced with a shack. At the time there was nothing in there but some benches and a table, it was only used for restrictions. I'm not sure if we're talking about the same pavillion. Unless they moved it, you wouldnt want this place as a lounge area. I know there was a gazebo right on the lake across from the dorm, maybe that's it. This thing was an actual pavillion and it was on the far side of the lake from the buildings and pushed way back in the woods far from the lake. It was where we were all kept while on restrictions.
As to a non licensed person dispensing meds, this has always been the norm at HLA.
These are questions that should be directed to the managing attonery Nina Edidin at the ORS. Her email: Nina J Edidin < http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/academ) ... ty-members
•Baker, Jim
•Bell, Kristin
•Brown, Trey
•Buccellato, Len
•Klein, Matt
•Smith, Scott
•Stapp, Joe
•Stevens, Hawley
•Sumpter, Walter
•Tanner, Sam
Ten little, nine little....
•Baker, Jim
•Brown, Trey
•Buccellato, Len
•Klein, Matt
•Smith, Scott
•Stapp, Joe
•Stevens, Hawley
•Sumpter, Walter
•Tanner, Sam
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So I'm still curious about the educational aspects of RC. How does that fit in with school? Or since its set up as such a short term program do they not worry about it? Not that they ever worried about it at HLA, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.
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The problem with HLA is unlicensed persons dispensing narcotic drugs to minors.
This question can apply to many different settings and schools. Does anyone know the law for this one? I dont believe a license is needed to dispense drugs in the state of Georgia. I believe you need to be under supervision of some sort but very little training is typically needed to be a dispenser.
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Lols. This is hardly the biggest problem with HLA's criminal enterprise. Plus the kids pretty much help themselves to whatever they want. Nobody's minding the store anymore.
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Lols. This is hardly the biggest problem with HLA's criminal enterprise. Plus the kids pretty much help themselves to whatever they want. Nobody's minding the store anymore.
Never said it was the biggest problem. Just sayin thats all.
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"I dont believe a license is needed to dispense drugs in the state of Georgia. " You are joking...
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No, that's thewho and he's not joking. He's deliberately lying to blunt the criticism, i.e. trolling.
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No, that's thewho and he's not joking. He's deliberately lying to blunt the criticism, i.e. trolling.
Again, you are the ones trolling. The rest of us are trying to have a conversation. Please try to contribute something constructive.
To get back on topic........This may help:
Certification is voluntary in most States, but is required by some States and employers. Some technicians are hired without formal training, but under the condition that they obtain certification within a specified period of time. To be eligible for either exam, candidates must have a high school diploma or GED, no felony convictions of any kind within 5 years of applying, and no drug or pharmacy related felony convictions at any point. Employers, often pharmacists, know that individuals who pass the exam have a standardized body of knowledge and skills. Many employers also will reimburse the costs of the exam.
In hospitals, nursing homes, and assisted-living facilities, technicians have added responsibilities, including reading patients’ charts and preparing the appropriate medication. After the pharmacist checks the prescription for accuracy, the pharmacy technician may deliver it to the patient. The technician then copies the information about the prescribed medication onto the patient’s profile. Technicians also may assemble a 24-hour supply of medicine for every patient. They package and label each dose separately. The packages are then placed in the medicine cabinets of patients until the supervising pharmacist checks them for accuracy, and only then is the medication given to the patients.
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This was actually discussed years ago. He was proven wrong then as well. The Georgia statutes allow for public schools non medical personell to dispense medication provided that the staff member in question is supervised by a licensed nurse within the district. What is not allowed is for unlicensed personell to dispense medications without supervision, and it is definitely not allowed for inmates at HLA to be dispensing meds. Both things that have gone on for years at HLA completly unchecked.
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This was actually discussed years ago. He was proven wrong then as well. The Georgia statutes allow for public schools non medical personell to dispense medication provided that the staff member in question is supervised by a licensed nurse within the district. What is not allowed is for unlicensed personell to dispense medications without supervision, and it is definitely not allowed for inmates at HLA to be dispensing meds. Both things that have gone on for years at HLA completly unchecked.
Do you have a link?
So as long as the person dispensing the medication is under the supervison of a licensed nurse then it is okay.. no training is needed?
So, as the article stated, a GED is okay. This is what the government standards say also and is what I thought.
The question was does Georgia have any law that trumps the Governement regulations which only requires a GED along with on-the-job-training to dispense drugs. If they dont then HLA was within their right to have someone on site deliver the medication to the students.
I think these are the questions that are being looked at.
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No HLA was not within their right to have untrained, unsupervised, staff members dispensing meds. Nor were they operating legally by having inmates dispense the meds. I look forward to hearing your attempted justification of that one.
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No HLA was not within their right to have untrained, unsupervised, staff members dispensing meds. Nor were they operating legally by having inmates dispense the meds. I look forward to hearing your attempted justification of that one.
again, do you have any type of link to support yout postion?
as I was researching for requirements for dispensing medications in hospitals and assisted living facilities I found that the person needed virtually no training and a minimum of a GED to get the job, which was surprising to me.
Link (http://http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos252.htm#training)
If you have something different lets take a look at it. It would be interesting to see how Georgia differs from the Government requirements. I know that parents dont have to go thru any training to give their kids medicine and they have the authority to transfer this responsibility to others ie. baby sitter, school counselor etc.
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Again, thewho is a fucking simple-minded idiot. A pharmacy tech filling pill bottles at the drug store is in no way the same as supervising the dispensation of psychotropic meds to kids in a child caring facility (HLA).
And he knows full well that HLA was already caught for and cited for ignoring the regulations about this.
This is old news and was settled long ago. Thewho is just trolling.
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Well he may be simple minded but the link he provided supports unlicensed people to dispense medications in hospitals, nursing homes and assisted living facilities. This goes beyond pharmacies as you can see if you read the link he provided.
Based on the government provisions anyone can dispense medication as long as they are under the supervision of someone who is licensed.
If you have anything besides personal attacks which supports your position please provide a link. How come the only one who can provide a link to their argument is considered the one trolling? Seems you should back up a few steps. The simple mindedness seems to be more and more a personal issue to do with yourself than an attack on thewho.
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Furthermore he ignores the fact that pharmacy tech is monitered, trained, and supervised by a board certified and licensed pharmacist. This is what I'm talking about when I say his ignorance helps our cause in the end. Because he's so brainwashed on believing in this industry, and anything it spews out, he affords us the opportunity to bring to light even greater and greater infractions.
The staff dispensing meds and working in the infirmary at HLA had no medical supervison whatsoever. The children working in there represented a flagrant legal violation. Can you justify either of these actions for me?
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Based on the government provisions anyone can dispense medication as long as they are under the supervision of someone who is licensed.
Exactly John, once again your own argument proves you wrong. HLA staff members working in the infirmary had no medical supervision. So by your own source they were in violation of the law. Thanks for doing our homework for us. :cheers:
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As usual you cannot provide any links. This was known from the onset but I offered the opportunity RB. You handled yourself much better this time...
So lets conclude without name calling:
Dispensing medications requires minimal training and only a GED... no license is needed.
If the people dispensing medications were not under some type of supervision from someone who was licensed then they were in violation. It doesn’t mention that the person has to be on the premises at the time.
I think that was a worthwhile discussion and cleared up a few misconceptions about licensing and dispensing.
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Based on the government provisions anyone can dispense medication as long as they are under the supervision of someone who is licensed.
Exactly John, once again your own argument proves you wrong. HLA staff members working in the infirmary had no medical supervision. So by your own source they were in violation of the law. Thanks for doing our homework for us. :cheers:
Not even just in the infirmary. Lee Parham used to have a tackle box of the kids meds, and he'd go to each dorm at night to dispense what they called "sleepy meds". It was the medication that was so powerful they had to bring it to the children in the dorm right before bed because it would have significant drowsiness that was a side effect.
Nurses would be LONG gone by this time of day on a week day, and did not work weekends. Medication was dispensed four times a day (morning, lunch, dinner, bedtime) 7 days a week. So there was a significant part of the day where there was no oversight whatsoever, and none on the weekends.
Wanna try again Who?
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Based on the government provisions anyone can dispense medication as long as they are under the supervision of someone who is licensed.
Exactly John, once again your own argument proves you wrong. HLA staff members working in the infirmary had no medical supervision. So by your own source they were in violation of the law. Thanks for doing our homework for us. :cheers:
Not even just in the infirmary. Lee Parham used to have a tackle box of the kids meds, and he'd go to each dorm at night to dispense what they called "sleepy meds". It was the medication that was so powerful they had to bring it to the children in the dorm right before bed because it would have significant drowsiness that was a side effect.
Nurses would be LONG gone by this time of day on a week day, and did not work weekends. Medication was dispensed four times a day (morning, lunch, dinner, bedtime) 7 days a week. So there was a significant part of the day where there was no oversight whatsoever, and none on the weekends.
Wanna try again Who?
Thanks Lacey, I think this is why they have the provision that a licensed person does not have to dispense the medications ( in the government procedures) . It is good to know they had a licensed nurse on site during the day, though, at HLA. Many here would have you believe they didnt have a licensed person on site at all. It makes perfect sense that they wouldn’t require he/she to work 24/7 and instead have someone else dispense the meds. I think this is why the provision was allowed by the state and government.
If you think about it it makes logical sense. giving out the medications is a routine job that requires very little training... parents do it...babysitters do it.. extended families do it.
The critical part is that a licensed person fill the prescription and insure the dosage and medication is correct and oversee the distribution of the substances.
Do you see what I am getting at?
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And when they fired the nurse and had no licensed medical person on staff and brought no one in to even supervise?
Were they still according to your own link (thanks again!) not in violation at that point?
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So we settled that when the nurse was there she handed off responsibility to someone to handle the times she wasn’t there. So she was off site. How long can she be off site for? 1 hour a day? a week? Are they required to even have a nurse? The government doesn’t define this time period or requirement. They only stipulate that the person needs to be overseen by a licensed person. So if she was fired then the dispensing oversight would fall onto the shoulders of the pharmacist like it does at home. So this would be handled over the phone by the one prescribing the meds or the pharmacists who filled the meds or in person.
If you take a little time to read the link I provided you will see this is covered. Like I said if at any time you have any outside link to support your personal believes feel free to post them and we can throw them into the conversation. Each state sometimes has local ordinances which trump the federal level so it is possible.
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They only stipulate that the person needs to be overseen by a licensed person.
And there you keep proving yourself wrong John. I have no need to provide a link, you've already done it for me. There was no supervision. A parent at home isnt dispensing meds to more than 100 kids at a time. Calling a pharmacist for a question isn't quite the same thing as having supervision to make sure the job is done correctly. You also still havent addressed the legality of having kids dispense meds.
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So lets go back to the original statement of this piece of discussion:
The problem with HLA is unlicensed persons dispensing narcotic drugs to minors.
A license is not required…. This we have established via government regulations.
The person dispensing the meds needs to be overseen by someone who is licensed.
so the law stipulates this not I... so there we have it.
If HLA is allowing someone to dispense meds without the oversight of a licensed professional then they are operating outside the law.
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If HLA is allowing someone to dispense meds without the oversight of a licensed professional then they are operating outside the law.
Then we agree that HLA has been operating outside of the law. Fantastic, I knew you'd figure it out eventually.
So my other question remains for anyone who actually experienced it. What is the educational program like at RC?
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I did not see where it was established that there was no oversight.
Do you have a link or some procedure we can look at?
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No nurse at HLA since 2006.
http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13982&p=192891&hilit=hla+nurse#p192891
Funny how TheWho 'forgets' this when he was making the same argument three years ago.
Also funny how he keeps demanding 'links' but when you ask him for one 'the website is difficult and time consuming to update.' Asshole.
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No nurse at HLA since 2006.
http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13982&p=192891&hilit=hla+nurse#p192891
Funny how TheWho 'forgets' this when he was making the same argument three years ago.
Also funny how he keeps demanding 'links' but when you ask him for one 'the website is difficult and time consuming to update.' Asshole.
We have established that the nurse was let go, but the governement procedures doesnt require a nurse to dispense the meds. A person with a GED could dispense them with little oversight from a licensed person.. ie pharmacist.
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John walk with me step by step through this. I'm determined that you understand this single point if nothing else.
Step 1. Your own link establishes, and you acknowledged, that while an unlicensed non medical staff member may dispense meds, supervision by a person who is licensed and certified in the field of medicine is required.
Step 2. HLA had no such staff member, either on the premises, or contracted through another organization to make routine visits as part of monitoring the situation.
Step 3. Having the phone number of a local pharmacist on hand to ask questions of is hardly the same thing as being supervised. The pharmacist is not going to come to HLA to ensure the receptionist, Assistiant Counselor, or student handing out meds is doing their job correctly. They aren't going to come by once a week and look over any reports taken, pointing out discrepancies, asking questions over why something was done a certain way, or certifing that things are being done properly.
Therefore, we can establish that since we know step one is true, and we know step two is true, it would then stand to reason that HLA was in violation of the law. Do you agree?
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John walk with me step by step through this. I'm determined that you understand this single point if nothing else.
Step 1. Your own link establishes, and you acknowledged, that while an unlicensed non medical staff member may dispense meds, supervision by a person who is licensed and certified in the field of medicine is required.
Step 2. HLA had no such staff member, either on the premises, or contracted through another organization to make routine visits as part of monitoring the situation.
Step 3. Having the phone number of a local pharmacist on hand to ask questions of is hardly the same thing as being supervised. The pharmacist is not going to come to HLA to ensure the receptionist, Assistiant Counselor, or student handing out meds is doing their job correctly. They aren't going to come by once a week and look over any reports taken, pointing out discrepancies, asking questions over why something was done a certain way, or certifing that things are being done properly.
Therefore, we can establish that since we know step one is true, and we know step two is true, it would then stand to reason that HLA was in violation of the law. Do you agree?
The government procedures doesnt mention that the person needs to have a phone number to a pharmacy or to stop by once a week to look over reports. The person needs to have a GED and to have oversight by a licensed person. You have not provided any proof that this wasnt being done and I havent seen any proof that this has been done. Like any other school in the US we need to look at the schools procedures and records to see how it was handled to know for sure. This may have been covered by the accredidation process and audits, but we would need to get a copy of what they cover during thier visits.
So at this point we just dont know if meds were being distributed correctly... maybe they were and maybe there were not. We need further facts to support a conclusion either way.
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John, follow this closely:
The person needs to have a GED and to have oversight by a licensed person
Once they fired the nurse there was no oversight John, no supervison whatsoever.
What is it you're looking for in terms of evidence John?
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John, follow this closely:
The person needs to have a GED and to have oversight by a licensed person
Once they fired the nurse there was no oversight John, no supervison whatsoever.
What is it you're looking for in terms of evidence John?
Unless you understood HLA procedures then you dont know what they did after the nurse left. The government doesnt require a nurse to be present for medication distribution. HLA never needed to hire a nurse to begin with as far as I can tell. If the med distribution was overseen by someone who was licensed...i.e the doctor prescribing the meds, the pharmacists, the doctors nurse or assistant etc. There is no requirement that this person needs to be on site.
If someone was sick (in any school across the country) it would be perfectly acceptable for a doctor to prescribe medication..... then to send someone to the pharmacy, speak to the pharmacist and then return with the medication and treat the child with it. This is done all the time, no one needs a license to do this. I think the difference is that there are many more kids involved so this would be a continuous process, not a one time event.
I would be interested to see what HLA's procedure was during this time period.
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If the med distribution was overseen by someone who was licensed...i.e the doctor prescribing the meds, the pharmacists, the doctors nurse or assistant etc. There is no requirement that this person needs to be on site.
It amazes me that you're still somehow missing it. By your own source and acknowledgement the person dispensing (not to mention running the infirmary) has to be supervised by someone who is licensed. How does having a magnet on a filing cabinet with the pharmacist phone number on it in your mind equate to supervision? The person is never on site John, ever. So then again, how is the non licensed staff member supervised?
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If the med distribution was overseen by someone who was licensed...i.e the doctor prescribing the meds, the pharmacists, the doctors nurse or assistant etc. There is no requirement that this person needs to be on site.
It amazes me that you're still somehow missing it. By your own source and acknowledgement the person dispensing (not to mention running the infirmary) has to be supervised by someone who is licensed. How does having a magnet on a filing cabinet with the pharmacist phone number on it in your mind equate to supervision? The person is never on site John, ever. So then again, how is the non licensed staff member supervised?
Show me where it states that a licensed person needs to be on site. I havent been able to find this requirement. If a doctor prescribes the medication and a pharmacist fills the prescription with instructions on its use and dispensing then a non licensed person can pick up this medication and bring it to the patient.
I am not saying you are wrong or HLA is right. I am just trying to understand if there were any laws broken and so far there isnt any evidence of that.
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John what in your mind constitutes supervison and oversight? Better yet, what's the legal standard?
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John what in your mind constitutes supervison and oversight? Better yet, what's the legal standard?
Those are the types of things that need to be defined. It is not up to you or I to define them. I have had people work for me who I have never met face to face and I have worked for people in other countries. I have also supervised people who are virtually joined at the hip so this would be an important piece to define before we determine if HLA was breaking any laws.
What level of supervision is needed in this particular area? Good question. We should take a closer look to see if this is defined anywhere.
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Alright, use your own example of people that you have supervised or worked for whom you never actually see. You would still have to submit or recieve reports and updates from them or to them correct?
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Alright, use your own example of people that you have supervised or worked for whom you never actually see. You would still have to submit or recieve reports and updates from them or to them correct?
Not if I was just providing oversight. But again we cant determine legality based on our own personal experiences.
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So you supervised people, that you never saw or spoke with, and never saw a single status update or report from? Did you have any actual authority over these people?
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So you supervised people, that you never saw or spoke with, and never saw a single status update or report from? Did you have any actual authority over these people?
Correct. They had a dotted line to someone local, but, in one of my cases, I provided oversight until something more permanent could be arranged. I think this is getting off topic. I dont think my practices would hold up in a court of law or help define something we are not familiar with.
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I'm just trying to understand your mindset as to how you can look at a situation where a non medically trained staff member is not just dispensing meds, but running the infirmary, without any supervision or oversight whatsoever, and as a parent who enrolled his child at HLA, be okay with it. All because a magnet has a local pharmacists number on it which you believe may constitute supervision.
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I'm just trying to understand your mindset as to how you can look at a situation where a non medically trained staff member is not just dispensing meds, but running the infirmary, without any supervision or oversight whatsoever, and as a parent who enrolled his child at HLA, be okay with it. All because a magnet has a local pharmacists number on it which you believe may constitute supervision.
First, I never had a child attend HLA and I never said I was okay with HLA's procedure or mentioned magnets of any kind. I dont endorse their procedures because neither one of us knows what they are. This is the open issue. We need to define what the law states and how HLA conforms or doesnt conform to it. This is where I am at right now.
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I dont endorse their procedures because neither one of us knows what they are. This is the open issue. We need to define what the law states and how HLA conforms or doesnt conform to it. This is where I am at right now
There's where you're wrong. Some of us do know what the procedures are because some of us, in this instance me, experienced this first hand. In my time there was no nurse, there was no on call nurse or visiting nurse, or anything that might constitute oversight by someone with a medical license. What there was, was a rotating string of baby sitters who sat in the infirmary for kids who were injured and/or sick. Depending on how visibly sick or injured the kid was, was the determining factor in whether or not the kid could recieve treatment, or if it was deemed the kid was just manipulating and punished. One girl when I was there went in repeatedly complaining of feeling feverish, nasuea, stomach pains, and a headache. As it was during the summer and hot outside the non medically trained or supervised person reported to her counselor the girl was just trying to get away with something and she was sent to work assignments. She later ran away in an effort according to her to "walk to to the fucking hospital". She didn't get very far though, as she collapsed on the side of Wahsega road. It turned out she had mono, and was finally after three days taken to the hospital. I personally suffered an injury while incarcerated, after two hours was taken to the ER. When the attending physican examined me his question to the AC who brought me to the hosptial was "Why did you wait so long to bring him? Don't you people know how serious this is?"
Untrained staff dispensing meds, students dispensing meds, all without the slightest degree of supervision, which again according to your own link is illegal. So how is this situation safe or okay?
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There's where you're wrong. Some of us do know what the procedures are because some of us, in this instance me, experienced this first hand. In my time there was no nurse, there was no on call nurse or visiting nurse, or anything that might constitute oversight by someone with a medical license. What there was, was a rotating string of baby sitters who sat in the infirmary for kids who were injured and/or sick. Depending on how visibly sick or injured the kid was, was the determining factor in whether or not the kid could recieve treatment, or if it was deemed the kid was just manipulating and punished. One girl when I was there went in repeatedly complaining of feeling feverish, nasuea, stomach pains, and a headache. As it was during the summer and hot outside the non medically trained or supervised person reported to her counselor the girl was just trying to get away with something and she was sent to work assignments. She later ran away in an effort according to her to "walk to to the fucking hospital". She didn't get very far though, as she collapsed on the side of Wahsega road. It turned out she had mono, and was finally after three days taken to the hospital. I personally suffered an injury while incarcerated, after two hours was taken to the ER. When the attending physican examined me his question to the AC who brought me to the hosptial was "Why did you wait so long to bring him? Don't you people know how serious this is?"
I hear ya there. From a parents perspective I would want a nurse on duty if my kid was there. When I was in grade school I asked to call home or go home because I was really sick and they told me no. IT turned out I had Scarlett fever and I ended up in the hospital overnight, wasn’t a good thing.
Untrained staff dispensing meds, students dispensing meds, all without the slightest degree of supervision, which again according to your own link is illegal. So how is this situation safe or okay?
I haven’t seen the procedure for this or how the meds were transported and who oversaw the movement of the meds. The legality of this has not been established. Personally I would like to see a nurse oversee the meds, but I don’t make the laws.
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According to your own link such a complete lack of supervision is illegal correct?
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According to your own link such a complete lack of supervision is illegal correct?
Lots of things are illegal. The person dispening meds does not need formal training and can do their work with oversight from someone who is licensed. If we can establish that a procedure exists supporting that HLA provided meds utilizing people who had no oversight then that would be illegal according to the link I provided.
I think that would be the smoking gun. Casual observation of the going ons inside the med office would not be good enough to support lack of oversight. There may be someone who is speaking to a doctor or pharmacist or licensed nurse that no one else is aware of.
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So you're saying here that if it were proven that HLA was dispensing meds, and operating an infirmary without any form of licensed medical supervision or oversight, you believe they would be operating illegally?
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So you're saying here that if it were proven that HLA was dispensing meds, and operating an infirmary without any form of licensed medical supervision or oversight, you believe they would be operating illegally?
Well the infirmary I havent looked at the laws. But according to the link I provided there needs to be a string back to a licensed person for the dispensing of meds.
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So again, you're saying it would be illegal.
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So again, you're saying it would be illegal.
Look at the link, see what you think. The way I read it is the meds would have to have a clear link back to a licensed person. If I worked at a nursing home and only had my GED and they sent me to the pharmacy to get the days meds (because they didnt have a nurse) and asked me to hand them out. Then I would have to get oversight from a licesned person either verbally or in writing. If the labels were clearly spelled out with a procedure on how to dispense them and that label was written by a licensed person then I could legally do the job because the label is a written procedure.
There needs to be some type of communication from a licensed person (either verbal or written) to be seen as oversight. As a minimum this is what I would like to see in order to be comfortable the job was being done correctly.
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According to agent Adrienne Baker who investigated for the ORS, HLA ,in order to have prescription meds on the property such Ritalin in the quantities that they were distributing, HLA should have had a DEA number. Now that was in 2006. Since HLA was forced into a CCI license there are clear regulatory laws regarding dispensing meds at a CCI. *See ORS/ DHR web-site.. Priot to licensing in DEC. OF 2006, whomever was available dispensed medication, which even without licensing was criminal. There were many errors and the children are who suffered.
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According to agent Adrienne Baker who investigated for the ORS, HLA ,in order to have prescription meds on the property such Ritalin in the quantities that they were distributing, HLA should have had a DEA number. Now that was in 2006. Since HLA was forced into a CCI license there are clear regulatory laws regarding dispensing meds at a CCI. *See ORS/ DHR web-site.. Priot to licensing in DEC. OF 2006, whomever was available dispensed medication, which even without licensing was criminal. There were many errors and the children are who suffered.
So if HLA was in non compliance the audits would have picked this up during the licensing phase and during the follow-up audits. I didnt see the original findings but the last 2 years they seem to be okay in this area.
I would like to get more detail about pre 2007 to see how they were operating during the times the nurse was there and after whe was let go. I am sure if it was a bitter split and HLA was in non-compliance then she would have blown the whistle on them. I'll check out the ORS/DHR site as you suggested...
Thanks Jill
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I can tell during my time there, there was no nurse. As to when she was let go I couldnt tell you. I know they hired someone back later on, but apparently that was the one they fired over email. So again by the standards you are citing HLA was and may currently be in violation.
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I can tell during my time there, there was no nurse. As to when she was let go I couldnt tell you. I know they hired someone back later on, but apparently that was the one they fired over email. So again by the standards you are citing HLA was and may currently be in violation.
so it seems we need some more detail to understand what they were doing pre 2007. We havent been able to get a handle on their procedures during this time or the chain of command of how the meds were handled.
Since 2007, If I am not mistake, HLA has been under the oversight of the ORS and had since been licensed.
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According to agent Adrienne Baker who investigated for the ORS, HLA ,in order to have prescription meds on the property such Ritalin in the quantities that they were distributing, HLA should have had a DEA number. Now that was in 2006. Since HLA was forced into a CCI license there are clear regulatory laws regarding dispensing meds at a CCI. *See ORS/ DHR web-site.. Priot to licensing in DEC. OF 2006, whomever was available dispensed medication, which even without licensing was criminal. There were many errors and the children are who suffered.
So if HLA was in non compliance the audits would have picked this up during the licensing phase and during the follow-up audits. I didnt see the original findings but the last 2 years they seem to be okay in this area.
I would like to get more detail about pre 2007 to see how they were operating during the times the nurse was there and after whe was let go. I am sure if it was a bitter split and HLA was in non-compliance then she would have blown the whistle on them. I'll check out the ORS/DHR site as you suggested...
Thanks Jill
No one blew the whistle on Buccellato ... You just don't get it. The fear level for their families and themselves was beyond anything I have ever encountered except in the movies.
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My son was given the wrong medications and/or the wrong dosages on several occasions. Fortunately, he pointed out the error to the person dispensing the meds - who by the way was not medically trained or licensed to dispense meds. Several of the kids ran out of medications and did not receive their meds for several days (this could also be due to the fact that HLA didn't pay its bill to the local pharmacy) or the bus driver who forgot to pick up the meds from WalMart and tried to blame it on the psychiatrist for failing to write a prescription.
The person they tried to have "oversee" the staff dispensing meds had his own medical license revoked for his own personal prescription drug abuse. Every nurse that was there while my son was there either quit or was fired.
The ORS specifially states that an individual dispensing meds must be a licensed to dispense meds. You can go to the ORS web site to look up this information.
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My son was given the wrong medications and/or the wrong dosages on several occasions. Fortunately, he pointed out the error to the person dispensing the meds - who by the way was not medically trained or licensed to dispense meds. Several of the kids ran out of medications and did not receive their meds for several days (this could also be due to the fact that HLA didn't pay its bill to the local pharmacy) or the bus driver who forgot to pick up the meds from WalMart and tried to blame it on the psychiatrist for failing to write a prescription.
The person they tried to have "oversee" the staff dispensing meds had his own medical license revoked for his own personal prescription drug abuse. Every nurse that was there while my son was there either quit or was fired.
The ORS specifially states that an individual dispensing meds must be a licensed to dispense meds. You can go to the ORS web site to look up this information.
I have read that the demand in various medical fields now for qualified nurses is staggering. I am sure HLA doesnt pay top dollar for nurses either. Even the public school systems are having a hard time keeping qualified people. I did find the form that needs to be filled out when there is an error in dosage made on the ORS site, But I couldnt find where it states the person must be licensed to dispense the medications. On the Federal level they specify that the person needs only a GED and some type of oversight but it is not very well defined. Do you happen to have a link to that page? I will keep poking around to see if I can find it.
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Subject: Dispensary Changes- Hidden Lake Academy
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:01:07 -0400
From: "Corrie Mishler" <[email protected]>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Dear Parents and Consultants:
Recently, we noticed an increase in the number of negative incidents in our medications dispensary. As we all know, degrees and certifications do not automatically make an organized, responsible employee. Personnel are consistently evaluated and staff changes made if we see no way of correcting the situation. All health-related organizations have negative incidents occur, but we always endeavor to address the issues and make changes in order to move forward.
Joe Stapp is now acting as the Dispensary supervisor. Joe is an Assistant Headmaster, clinical supervisor, and a former peer group counselor at Hidden Lake Academy .
In order to minimize errors and continue to provide quality care for the students, Joe is looking to implement the following changes:
1. Blister packaging medication in order to help with better medication management.
2. Acquiring delivery service from the pharmacy with whom HLA contracts.
3. Increasing communication among the dispensary staff in order to better coordinate dispensary duties.
4. Begin a more formal process of tracking dispensary activities to catch problems before they occur.
5. Begin cross-training assistant counselors on Dispensary duties to ensure adequate coverage in the Dispensary.
If you have any additional issues needing to be addressed involving the Dispensary, please feel free to contact Joe Stapp . We look forward to another great school year at HLA.
Sincerely,
Nicole Fuglsang , MA, NCC, LPC
Director of Admissions/ Public Relations
Hidden Lake Academy
[email protected]
phone (706) 864-4730
fax (706) 864-9109
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http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/FrequentQuestions.aspx (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/FrequentQuestions.aspx)
What happens if my child is not feeling well?
We have a full-time nurse on staff seven days a week. A pediatrician visits campus at least once a week to see students (twice a week when needed). For routine appointments/check-ups, we ask that parents try to schedule appointments during the student's home visits. If this is not possible, we are able to take students to appointments for an additional fee (if the visit is not local). Parents will need to let the nurse know what appointments are necessary. In most cases, the nurse will schedule the appointment and a staff member will escort the student to their appointment. If a student has a medical emergency, we will take them to Chestatee Medical Center 's Emergency Room (Dahlonega), or to Northside Hospital 's Emergency Room ( Atlanta ).
What if my chil d is on medication?
Upon enrollment, disclosure of any psychotropic medications a student is on must be declared in a written form. If a student is on psychotropic medications, they need to see a psychiatrist for medication management or to receive a weaning schedule. HLA has a "no medication" policy and prefers to wean the students off psychotropic medications whenever poss ible. The structure that we provide enables most students to succeed without being medicated while at HLA. Our consulting Psychiatrist meets with students on a weekly basis.
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-------------- Original message --------------
From: " Charles Cates " <[email protected]>
Let me respond to your questions.
Though information has been sent re; these questions, we are updating the Web site to include these changes.
1. There is a Practical nurse on campus in the Dispensary. Students in need of a doctor are scheduled for off campus appointments asap.< /SPAN>
2. Students who see a Psychiatrist are taken to an appointment off campus. There is a charge for transportation.
3. Meds are given by the Dispensary staff which includes a Pharmacy Technician.
4. Clay Erickson does not practice medicine and is not a Licensed Physician.
Please understand that we have and will continue to be diligent to provide for the medical needs of our students. Our new procedure better establishes a relationship between parent and physicians.
If you have specific questions, you may contact Clay Erickson directly.
Charles W Cates, Ph,
Headmaster
Hidden Lake Academy
-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: "Charles Cates" <[email protected]>
To:
Subject: RE: Clarification on Frequent Questions
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:34:55 +0000
LPN- Full time.
Charles W Cates, PhD
Headmaster
Hidden Lake Academy
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Clayton Erickson was the Director of Addiction Services at Hidden Lake Academy. Mr. Erickson was also dispensing children's medication at HLA. Mr. Erickson counseled the children re: addiction.
Addiction counselors in Georgia are certified by two agencies - the Alcohol and Drug Abuse Certification Board of Georgia and the Georgia Addictions Counselors Association
Neither agency ever issued any certification for Clayton Erickson.
Erickson was licensed to practice medicine in the state of Washington until 1993.
His licensed was suspended by the Washington State Medical Disciplinary Board.
The Disciplinary Board determined that Erickson "engaged in unprofessional conduct" and obtained Vicodin, Tylox, and morphine "for his own use and without authorization or prescription."
In 1998, Erickson petitioned to have the suspension lifted.
The Disciplinary Board denied the petition and determined that Erickson "failed to present evidence that he is currently capable of practicing medicine with reasonable skill and safety as required by the Agreed Order."
Erickson's license was revoked by the Medical Commission in May 1999.
Mr. Erickson was uncomfortable with Buccellato's insistance that M.D. be kept after Mr. Erikson's name on HLA's web-site. Buccellato was said to be insistant as it was good for marketing. The State intervened in 2006 after parents filed complaints. Mr. Buccellato was forced to remove the M.D. after Erickson's name.
Apparently, it depended on who was writing an email to which parent in disclosing exactly who was responsible for handing out medication. When the nurse was fired, the receptionists, night staff and anyone who was available handed out meds. Trust me, even after licensing if you are a wage earner, and the ORS even after licensing asks who hands out medication, it won't be them.
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What you don't seem to understand is that HLA was run under the premise "DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL". An example: Marla the Special Needs teacher was gone in Februaruy of 2005. HLA had IEP students specifically for Special Needs. Until Marla wrote her open letter(blowing the whistle) and was silenced by Buccellato's goons "Quirk and Quirk", parents did not even know there was no Special Ed. teacher. She was brave, paid dearly with Buccellato's wrath. It was now May of 2005. If it was not for Marla, no one would have known. Eight months later, HLA replaced her, under pressure. It was no different with the meds. As long as Buccellato remains on the thrown he will do as he wishes, unless he is caught with his hand in the cookie jar, no pun intended. Again, his staff are chosen for the most part because they are weak, needy or have/had a 'hidden past' like Clay which guarantees his leaverage over them and the odds are highly in Buccellato's favor that they wouldn't turn him in.
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Slavery is illegal, Jill. But you own TheWho. Well, partially own, anyway. Deborah, DJ, RB, and many others also own that idiot.
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Slavery is illegal, Jill. But you own TheWho. Well, partially own, anyway. Deborah, DJ, RB, and many others also own that idiot.
Ah, come-on Bruce, lets keep it in the garbage thread. You were doing really good up until now. Jill is trying to get the thread back on topic and push the subject of "drug dispensing" along a little faster, I think.
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I often wonder if you actually attack yourself from the shadows just so you can claim someone else is not only attacking you, but mucking up the thread as well. Either that or you really are so arrogant you don't understand how many people other than myself view you as a complete dooche.
Regardless of that fact though, lets try and stay on topic.
You brought up an interesting point that merits a response:
I am sure if it was a bitter split and HLA was in non-compliance then she would have blown the whistle on them.
About a year or so before you began posting here there was a poster by the name of Marla. Marla McGee had been a teacher at HLA for about six months, english I believe. She found it to be an abusive and intolerable situation and so quit, at which point she began talking. She shared her experiences and listed off things at HLA she found to be dangerous or abusive. Buchi and Joey from Q & Q dropped the hammer on her. Now the things she was talking about were all things she had witnessed first hand, and there wasnt a great deal of hyperbole, yet that didnt stop them from literally silencing her. They threatened to take everything she and her husband had, and bullied her into signing a non disclosure agreement. How ever many phone calls you've had with Buchi regarding your son, or referalls you've sent them, I can assure you, you do not know this "man". I'm not surprised at all to hear so few "blew the whistle", Buchi does his utmost to ensure the silence of everyone. He even tried the same thing with me. Job well done on that Buchi.
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I often wonder if you actually attack yourself from the shadows just so you can claim someone else is not only attacking you, but mucking up the thread as well. Either that or you really are so arrogant you don't understand how many people other than myself view you as a complete dooche.
Ah, come on Bruce, why start that here. Why the personal attacks in an attempt to derail the thread? You created a whole garbage thread dedicated to just those type of comments. Please lets keep the discussion on topic. Jill , myself and a few others have done well today exchanging information without the personal attacks. Please save it for the other thread.
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Yeah that's what I thought, you attack yourself so you can then try and blame it on others. Neat.
Anyway what are your thoughts on my comments regarding Marla? How does that coincide with your "whistle blower" theory?
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I often wonder if you actually attack yourself from the shadows just so you can claim someone else is not only attacking you, but mucking up the thread as well. Either that or you really are so arrogant you don't understand how many people other than myself view you as a complete dooche............ Yeah that's what I thought, you attack yourself so you can then try and blame it on others. Neat.
Bruce, please dont do this here, keep to the topic, no one is attacking except you. Look at your last post. Last warning, if you cant stay on topic or keep it in your garbage thread, I wont be responding to your posts any further. Jill offered some interesting insight into the dispensing of drugs at HLA, which was the topic, which raises some red flags in my opinion.
Another poster indicated that the ORS had some requirements on licensing requirements for the dispensing of drugs that I am looking into also.
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For the record...Marla was a Spec. Ed. Teacher.
Author Topic: Teacher Runs From HLA
marla posted 2/7/05 5:15 PM
I am a rare adult survivor of HLA - I got out IN FEBRUARY 2005,with a little sanity left. After teaching special education for nearly 20 years, I only survived 6 months at HLA. The kids don't feel they can talk to their counselors - maybe its manipulation - maybe not, so they told me things, but I was not in a position to do much except listen without criticizing them and then report safety concerns.ACTUALLY I REPORTED A SAFETY CONCERN TO A COUNSELOR (D.S.) THE DAY I LEFT. IT WAS ABOUT A GIRL WHO HAD JSUT RETURNED FROM A PSYCH HOSPITAL FOR TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE WHILE SHE WAS ON "clean air" _ where there is supposed to be extra supervision - THE GIRL HAD CUT SEVERAL MORE TIMES (mostly small stuff)DURING THE 24 - 36 HOURS SHE HAD BEEN BACK AT HLA AND TOLD ME SHE DIDN'T FEEL SAFE AND THOUGHT SHE NEEDED TO RETURN TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL - I TOLD DOUG S. - ONE OF HER COUNSEWLORS ABOUT IT AND HE SAID "WELL, TELL HER TO CUT AGAIN AND THEN WE'LL SEND HER BACK TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL." They certainly can't tell their parents their real feelings and experiences without being punished for being manipulative by those who are assigned to monitor their mail, email and phone calls. HLA is not the panacea for all teen problems - most of which kids grow out of or learn to use to their advantage in the business world. Some HLA kids need counseling, some need AA, some need psych hospitals; most need love and time to mature - most are there because their parents were MANIPULATED BY ED. CONSULTANTS AND HLA advertisements. Want a GREAT LAUGH? Go to "struggling teens.com/archives/2001/6/visit01.html" this is a site from "Woodbury Reports, Inc." some ed. consultant deal out of Idaho . This site, while only a few years old, certainly did not describe the HLA I just left. The article claimed the campus was attractive - that's about the only info. I can agree with in their entire review. All the "players" names have changed, except Len, who still owns it and seems like a decent guy, only he leaves the "Mice to play" while he does all his other business things and they do whatever they find most convenient (and maybe even sadistically fun). The article says all teachers are certified - try maybe 20%! The site claims all the kids have IEPs - not! Even if they come in with an IEP, HLA does not have to abide by it because they are a private institution. 100% do not attend college! The cafeteria does not over look the lake - maybe they visited on a rainy day! Restrictions kids get less food and water and are supervised by folks with questionable objectives. Most of the counselors are straight out of college with no experience, so they buy into what the administrators feed them about treating kids in a very punitive way and being constantly suspicious, not to mention telling them behavior modification works. It has been proven that behavior modification in humans is temporary at best.PARENTS - DO YOURSELF AND YOUR WALLET A FAVOR - BEFORE PICKING ANY BOARDING SCHOOL, VISIT UNANNOUNCED AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, AFTER PLACING YOUR KID IN ONE, VISIT UNANNOUNCED. Refuse to be treated like a mushroom- kept in the dark and fed crap! (Parents need to know when their son has been beaten up by a group of homophobic guys. (Some of the kids who came to tell me their problems were gay and felt they were being discriminated against because of this by their counselors and others.) Parents need to know when their daughter has stepped in big puddles of blood first thing in the morning that were left behind by her suicidal roomate. Parents need to know that group therapy has been shown to be more harmful than helpful for "cutters." THIS IS ALL SERIOUS AND FROM THE HEART BECAUSE I TRULY CARE ABOUT THESE KIDS.
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For the record...Marla was a Spec. Ed. Teacher.
Author Topic: Teacher Runs From HLA
marla posted 2/7/05 5:15 PM
I am a rare adult survivor of HLA - I got out IN FEBRUARY 2005,with a little sanity left. After teaching special education for nearly 20 years, I only survived 6 months at HLA. The kids don't feel they can talk to their counselors - maybe its manipulation - maybe not, so they told me things, but I was not in a position to do much except listen without criticizing them and then report safety concerns.ACTUALLY I REPORTED A SAFETY CONCERN TO A COUNSELOR (D.S.) THE DAY I LEFT. IT WAS ABOUT A GIRL WHO HAD JSUT RETURNED FROM A PSYCH HOSPITAL FOR TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE WHILE SHE WAS ON "clean air" _ where there is supposed to be extra supervision - THE GIRL HAD CUT SEVERAL MORE TIMES (mostly small stuff)DURING THE 24 - 36 HOURS SHE HAD BEEN BACK AT HLA AND TOLD ME SHE DIDN'T FEEL SAFE AND THOUGHT SHE NEEDED TO RETURN TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL - I TOLD DOUG S. - ONE OF HER COUNSEWLORS ABOUT IT AND HE SAID "WELL, TELL HER TO CUT AGAIN AND THEN WE'LL SEND HER BACK TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL." They certainly can't tell their parents their real feelings and experiences without being punished for being manipulative by those who are assigned to monitor their mail, email and phone calls. HLA is not the panacea for all teen problems - most of which kids grow out of or learn to use to their advantage in the business world. Some HLA kids need counseling, some need AA, some need psych hospitals; most need love and time to mature - most are there because their parents were MANIPULATED BY ED. CONSULTANTS AND HLA advertisements. Want a GREAT LAUGH? Go to "struggling teens.com/archives/2001/6/visit01.html" this is a site from "Woodbury Reports, Inc." some ed. consultant deal out of Idaho . This site, while only a few years old, certainly did not describe the HLA I just left. The article claimed the campus was attractive - that's about the only info. I can agree with in their entire review. All the "players" names have changed, except Len, who still owns it and seems like a decent guy, only he leaves the "Mice to play" while he does all his other business things and they do whatever they find most convenient (and maybe even sadistically fun). The article says all teachers are certified - try maybe 20%! The site claims all the kids have IEPs - not! Even if they come in with an IEP, HLA does not have to abide by it because they are a private institution. 100% do not attend college! The cafeteria does not over look the lake - maybe they visited on a rainy day! Restrictions kids get less food and water and are supervised by folks with questionable objectives. Most of the counselors are straight out of college with no experience, so they buy into what the administrators feed them about treating kids in a very punitive way and being constantly suspicious, not to mention telling them behavior modification works. It has been proven that behavior modification in humans is temporary at best.PARENTS - DO YOURSELF AND YOUR WALLET A FAVOR - BEFORE PICKING ANY BOARDING SCHOOL, VISIT UNANNOUNCED AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, AFTER PLACING YOUR KID IN ONE, VISIT UNANNOUNCED. Refuse to be treated like a mushroom- kept in the dark and fed crap! (Parents need to know when their son has been beaten up by a group of homophobic guys. (Some of the kids who came to tell me their problems were gay and felt they were being discriminated against because of this by their counselors and others.) Parents need to know when their daughter has stepped in big puddles of blood first thing in the morning that were left behind by her suicidal roomate. Parents need to know that group therapy has been shown to be more harmful than helpful for "cutters." THIS IS ALL SERIOUS AND FROM THE HEART BECAUSE I TRULY CARE ABOUT THESE KIDS.
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Then stay on topic Johnny, no one is attacking you. Stop being so sensitive, and accusatory. I've been trying to discuss with you your thoughts on whistle blowers at HLA given Buchi's penchance for bullying would be talkers. Now if you can stop trying to derail the thread long enough we can continue this conversation. If not you'll need to move on.
So again, given Buchi's record when it comes to former (or even ones who were current; see Clarke Poole) employees raising concerns or showing any signs of "disloyalty", do you feel the environment is one conducive to where a person could feel safe calling the authorities, parents, or ed cons, without serious repercussions?
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Thanks for the clarification Jill, it had been so long since she was here or emailed me I'd forgotten what it was she taught. I believe she was one of the last special ed teachers at HLA, after that they just pretended.
So how about it John. What are your thoughts on how she was treated?
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Thanks Jill, I noticed many red flags in your posts about how HLA's infirmary was run. But they seemed to just skim by and stay within the law as far as dispensing the medications. I wouldnt want my kid under HLA's care, but they couldnt be charged with anything that I can see as far as the dispensing of the meds.
Now that we finished with that let me catch up with how they handled kids on IEP's/ spec. ED. I have experience in this area from a parents perspective.
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Buccellato used her certification as a Spec. Needs Teacher to get the IEP children, the problem is he never informed anyone HLA did not have a Spec. Ed. teacher for 7-8 months. Just as he never informed new families the week and weekend prior to filing bankruptcy. Just as he neglected to tell the truth about Mr. Erickson and everything else in his den of iniquity. I had parents in shock calling me . He could have very well cross utilized her in English as he did with all the other staff, to that end I have no idea.
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Thanks Jill, I noticed many red flags in your posts about how HLA's infirmary was run. But they seemed to just skim by and stay within the law as far as dispensing the medications. I wouldnt want my kid under HLA's care, but they couldnt be charged with anything that I can see as far as the dispensing of the meds.
Now that we finished with that let me catch up with how they handled kids on IEP's/ spec. ED. I have experience in this area from a parents perspective.
You are misinformed, HLA did not operate within the laws dispensing medication when our children were there and all the way back to the mid to late 90's . Unsupervised, uneducated night staff, receptionists that didn't even go trade school were handing out meds...Do you not get it? Children were handed the wrong psychotropic drugs or the children didn't recieve them. Buccellatto only skimmed by with out of court settlements in so many areas it would make ones head spin. For Gods' sake the tending psychiatrist said Buccellato wanted him to take the kids off their meds a month before graduation, so they would go nuts and have to stay. His name Horwitz M.D. (a real M.D.) and he wouldn't do it because he feared for the children's health, he wouldn't take that responsibility, he cited his oath, he was fired, he wrote a letter to the parents, he spoke with attorneys and the saga went on with several more Psychiatrists.
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Definitely beating a dead horse here and apologize for my repetition but from what I read none of that is illegal, The guy hired several nurses, so it wasn’t like he was ignoring the laws. He had a pharmacy technician on site at one point so he was aware and working towards doing the right thing in that area (at least on paper) and the law typically allows for interim plans to cover employee loss maybe he exploited these loop holes in the law to get by. As far as I know the law only stipulates that the person dispensing meds have only a GED and some on the job training.
I am not sure why he kept hiring nurses in the first place and paying that salary when he could get away with a pharmacy tech with a GED for $10/hour. For short money he could have had a visiting nurse come in for a few hours to set things up for the week or on an as needed basis. That would have been much cheaper.
From a parents perspective, I would never send my kid there especially after reading pieces of the lawsuit and the blatant disregard for the kids safety.
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I remember when I sent those questions to Charles - he was quite annoyed with my persistence. We were told there was a full-time nurse on staff 7 days a week, which turned out not to be the case. As a matter of fact we were never even told when a nurse quit or was fired - we had to hear it from our children.
I will agree the term "Child Care Worker" is a loosely defined term and HLA may have been operating within the law IF they were licensed by ORS at the time. However, HLA wasn't licensed and we were told the monies we were paying for our children to attend HLA included a full-time nurse on staff. They staff dispensing medications weren't handing out a Tylenol or Tums - they were dispensing medications that the kids needed for psychological disorders, as well as serious physical conditions such as diabetes. Given the serious nature of the medications, and the impact on the kids' mental and physical health, the person dispensing those medications should have been trained to look at the medications to identify the medications to ensure the kids were receiving the correct medications, as well as to observe any mental or physical changes with the kids.
Again, we were sold one thing (a full-time nurse) and we received another (receptionist handing out meds).
http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/docs/290/2/5/12.pdf (http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/docs/290/2/5/12.pdf)
-------------- Original message --------------
From: " Charles Cates " <[email protected]>
Let me respond to your questions.
Though information has been sent re; these questions, we are updating the Web site to include these changes.
1. There is a Practical nurse on campus in the Dispensary. Students in need of a doctor are scheduled for off campus appointments asap.< /SPAN>
2. Students who see a Psychiatrist are taken to an appointment off campus. There is a charge for transportation.
3. Meds are given by the Dispensary staff which includes a Pharmacy Technician.
4. Clay Erickson does not practice medicine and is not a Licensed Physician.
Please understand that we have and will continue to be diligent to provide for the medical needs of our students. Our new procedure better establishes a relationship between parent and physicians.
If you have specific questions, you may contact Clay Erickson directly.
Charles W Cates, Ph,
Headmaster
Hidden Lake Academy
-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: "Charles Cates" <[email protected]>
To:
Subject: RE: Clarification on Frequent Questions
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:34:55 +0000
LPN- Full time.
Charles W Cates, PhD
Headmaster
Hidden Lake Academy
-
I believe there was confusion as well because the rules for Outdoor Therapeutic camps, such as Ridge Creek, have different rules. And Ridge Creek was found to be in violations of the rules regarding the administering and dispensing of medications. Still, it doesn't matter. Unqualified individuals were administering and dispending medications.
So the big question is now that Hidden Lake is really Ridge Creek which set of rules apply? I'd like the ORS to answer that question.
Here are the rules for OTCs:
http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/docs/290/2/7/10.pdf (http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/docs/290/2/7/10.pdf)
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Reading thru the documents it seems the rules are fairly wide open as far as the qualifications of the person dispensing the medication. Virtually anyone can dispense drugs. If RCS is licensed and overseen by a regulatory agency then they will be monitoring the process of medication control and distribution.
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Reading thru the documents it seems the rules are fairly wide open as far as the qualifications of the person dispensing the medication. Virtually anyone can dispense drugs. If RCS is licensed and overseen by a regulatory agency then they will be monitoring the process of medication control and distribution.
Wishful thinking.
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Reading thru the documents it seems the rules are fairly wide open as far as the qualifications of the person dispensing the medication. Virtually anyone can dispense drugs. If RCS is licensed and overseen by a regulatory agency then they will be monitoring the process of medication control and distribution.
Wishful thinking.
Yea, I hear ya, but we have to let the governement get in there and regulate the best they can if the schools are not following the rules. I am not a big fan of regulation but in some cases (like this one) I think it is neccessary.
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For the record...Marla was a Spec. Ed. Teacher.
Author Topic: Teacher Runs From HLA
marla posted 2/7/05 5:15 PM
I am a rare adult survivor of HLA - I got out IN FEBRUARY 2005,with a little sanity left. After teaching special education for nearly 20 years, I only survived 6 months at HLA. The kids don't feel they can talk to their counselors - maybe its manipulation - maybe not, so they told me things, but I was not in a position to do much except listen without criticizing them and then report safety concerns.ACTUALLY I REPORTED A SAFETY CONCERN TO A COUNSELOR (D.S.) THE DAY I LEFT. IT WAS ABOUT A GIRL WHO HAD JSUT RETURNED FROM A PSYCH HOSPITAL FOR TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE WHILE SHE WAS ON "clean air" _ where there is supposed to be extra supervision - THE GIRL HAD CUT SEVERAL MORE TIMES (mostly small stuff)DURING THE 24 - 36 HOURS SHE HAD BEEN BACK AT HLA AND TOLD ME SHE DIDN'T FEEL SAFE AND THOUGHT SHE NEEDED TO RETURN TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL - I TOLD DOUG S. - ONE OF HER COUNSEWLORS ABOUT IT AND HE SAID "WELL, TELL HER TO CUT AGAIN AND THEN WE'LL SEND HER BACK TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL." They certainly can't tell their parents their real feelings and experiences without being punished for being manipulative by those who are assigned to monitor their mail, email and phone calls. HLA is not the panacea for all teen problems - most of which kids grow out of or learn to use to their advantage in the business world. Some HLA kids need counseling, some need AA, some need psych hospitals; most need love and time to mature - most are there because their parents were MANIPULATED BY ED. CONSULTANTS AND HLA advertisements. Want a GREAT LAUGH? Go to "struggling teens.com/archives/2001/6/visit01.html" this is a site from "Woodbury Reports, Inc." some ed. consultant deal out of Idaho . This site, while only a few years old, certainly did not describe the HLA I just left. The article claimed the campus was attractive - that's about the only info. I can agree with in their entire review. All the "players" names have changed, except Len, who still owns it and seems like a decent guy, only he leaves the "Mice to play" while he does all his other business things and they do whatever they find most convenient (and maybe even sadistically fun). The article says all teachers are certified - try maybe 20%! The site claims all the kids have IEPs - not! Even if they come in with an IEP, HLA does not have to abide by it because they are a private institution. 100% do not attend college! The cafeteria does not over look the lake - maybe they visited on a rainy day! Restrictions kids get less food and water and are supervised by folks with questionable objectives. Most of the counselors are straight out of college with no experience, so they buy into what the administrators feed them about treating kids in a very punitive way and being constantly suspicious, not to mention telling them behavior modification works. It has been proven that behavior modification in humans is temporary at best.PARENTS - DO YOURSELF AND YOUR WALLET A FAVOR - BEFORE PICKING ANY BOARDING SCHOOL, VISIT UNANNOUNCED AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, AFTER PLACING YOUR KID IN ONE, VISIT UNANNOUNCED. Refuse to be treated like a mushroom- kept in the dark and fed crap! (Parents need to know when their son has been beaten up by a group of homophobic guys. (Some of the kids who came to tell me their problems were gay and felt they were being discriminated against because of this by their counselors and others.) Parents need to know when their daughter has stepped in big puddles of blood first thing in the morning that were left behind by her suicidal roomate. Parents need to know that group therapy has been shown to be more harmful than helpful for "cutters." THIS IS ALL SERIOUS AND FROM THE HEART BECAUSE I TRULY CARE ABOUT THESE KIDS.
Each time I hear a story like this I think of how the kids and families would benefit more and more from having a third/fourth party sign off on each placement....i.e. school counselor, childs therapist, local hospital etc. There are much better programs where the kids are treated better, parents can show up unannounced, take their kids off campus for the day, have sports teams which compete against local schools, therapists on site etc.
I dont think there is a doubt in most peoples minds that programs are effective. The ones that dont work receive most of the attention (which is how it should be) so we dont hear about the better programs as much on fornits.
CEDU and the seed seems to grab all the attention and then if a kid gets hurt or killed in a program somewhere in the country that gets the focus for awhile but for the most part it is a few programs that have a bad reputation and dirty up the industry.
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For the record...Marla was a Spec. Ed. Teacher.
Author Topic: Teacher Runs From HLA
marla posted 2/7/05 5:15 PM
I am a rare adult survivor of HLA - I got out IN FEBRUARY 2005,with a little sanity left. After teaching special education for nearly 20 years, I only survived 6 months at HLA. The kids don't feel they can talk to their counselors - maybe its manipulation - maybe not, so they told me things, but I was not in a position to do much except listen without criticizing them and then report safety concerns.ACTUALLY I REPORTED A SAFETY CONCERN TO A COUNSELOR (D.S.) THE DAY I LEFT. IT WAS ABOUT A GIRL WHO HAD JSUT RETURNED FROM A PSYCH HOSPITAL FOR TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE WHILE SHE WAS ON "clean air" _ where there is supposed to be extra supervision - THE GIRL HAD CUT SEVERAL MORE TIMES (mostly small stuff)DURING THE 24 - 36 HOURS SHE HAD BEEN BACK AT HLA AND TOLD ME SHE DIDN'T FEEL SAFE AND THOUGHT SHE NEEDED TO RETURN TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL - I TOLD DOUG S. - ONE OF HER COUNSEWLORS ABOUT IT AND HE SAID "WELL, TELL HER TO CUT AGAIN AND THEN WE'LL SEND HER BACK TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL." They certainly can't tell their parents their real feelings and experiences without being punished for being manipulative by those who are assigned to monitor their mail, email and phone calls. HLA is not the panacea for all teen problems - most of which kids grow out of or learn to use to their advantage in the business world. Some HLA kids need counseling, some need AA, some need psych hospitals; most need love and time to mature - most are there because their parents were MANIPULATED BY ED. CONSULTANTS AND HLA advertisements. Want a GREAT LAUGH? Go to "struggling teens.com/archives/2001/6/visit01.html" this is a site from "Woodbury Reports, Inc." some ed. consultant deal out of Idaho . This site, while only a few years old, certainly did not describe the HLA I just left. The article claimed the campus was attractive - that's about the only info. I can agree with in their entire review. All the "players" names have changed, except Len, who still owns it and seems like a decent guy, only he leaves the "Mice to play" while he does all his other business things and they do whatever they find most convenient (and maybe even sadistically fun). The article says all teachers are certified - try maybe 20%! The site claims all the kids have IEPs - not! Even if they come in with an IEP, HLA does not have to abide by it because they are a private institution. 100% do not attend college! The cafeteria does not over look the lake - maybe they visited on a rainy day! Restrictions kids get less food and water and are supervised by folks with questionable objectives. Most of the counselors are straight out of college with no experience, so they buy into what the administrators feed them about treating kids in a very punitive way and being constantly suspicious, not to mention telling them behavior modification works. It has been proven that behavior modification in humans is temporary at best.PARENTS - DO YOURSELF AND YOUR WALLET A FAVOR - BEFORE PICKING ANY BOARDING SCHOOL, VISIT UNANNOUNCED AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, AFTER PLACING YOUR KID IN ONE, VISIT UNANNOUNCED. Refuse to be treated like a mushroom- kept in the dark and fed crap! (Parents need to know when their son has been beaten up by a group of homophobic guys. (Some of the kids who came to tell me their problems were gay and felt they were being discriminated against because of this by their counselors and others.) Parents need to know when their daughter has stepped in big puddles of blood first thing in the morning that were left behind by her suicidal roomate. Parents need to know that group therapy has been shown to be more harmful than helpful for "cutters." THIS IS ALL SERIOUS AND FROM THE HEART BECAUSE I TRULY CARE ABOUT THESE KIDS.
Each time I hear a story like this I think of how the kids and families would benefit more and more from having a third/fourth party sign off on each placement....i.e. school counselor, childs therapist, local hospital etc. There are much better programs where the kids are treated better, parents can show up unannounced, take their kids off campus for the day, have sports teams which compete against local schools, therapists on site etc.
I dont think there is a doubt in most peoples minds that programs are effective. The ones that dont work receive most of the attention (which is how it should be) so we dont hear about the better programs as much on fornits.
CEDU and the seed seems to grab all the attention and then if a kid gets hurt or killed in a program somewhere in the country that gets the focus for awhile but for the most part it is a few programs that have a bad reputation and dirty up the industry.
A third party like your friend Leslie Goldberg who continued to send children to HLA, would sell her soul for the almighty dollar, I don't think so. OR maybe Sue Scheff, who refers children to foster care facilities, who touted the "renowned psychologist "Bernie Farrow, who didn't even have a degree. Please.
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A third party like your friend Leslie Goldberg who continued to send children to HLA, would sell her soul for the almighty dollar, I don't think so. OR maybe Sue Scheff, who refers children to foster care facilities, who touted the "renowned psychologist "Bernie Farrow, who didn't even have a degree. Please.
A very strange response The leslie person I am not familiar with and why would anyone seek Sue S. out for a signature? And how would this help reduce placements? I was talking about someone who knew the child. If the parents could get a third party and/or have the child tested at a local hospital prior to any program being able to take them would go a long way in eliminating unneeded placements in my opinion.
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Because Buchi and all those like him don't want it. These people aren't stupid, they know coercive therapy doesnt work, they know the majority of psychologist in the US are opposed to these places. Why would they open themselves up to a loss of customers like that?
Besides they've already got a bag of tricks to cover it. HLA will accept a recomendation from a pyschologist or an educational consultant. I never actually met or spoke to mine, but she sure was certain HLA was the place for me.
As for the meds dispensing issue, you're correct John, it is a dead horse. HLA violated the law by allowing non medical personell to dispense meds without any supervision whatsoever. Thank you again for providing the link proving that.
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Its okay, thewho, Bruce never read Jills posts and emails. Let him believe what he wants, he is happier that way.
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HLA WAS cited for this. Of course TheWho would know this if he weren't too lazy and stupid to read the ORS reports...
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HLA WAS cited for this. Of course TheWho would know this if he weren't too lazy and stupid to read the ORS reports...
Link?
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Its okay, thewho, Bruce never read Jills posts and emails. Let him believe what he wants, he is happier that way.
You don’t have to tell me, Bruce posts for an entirely different reason then the rest of us. Fact finding is not high on his list.
There are countless times that I have been on a similar path of discovery and when the facts begin to show that they are not going to support their particular agenda then they bailout or derail the thread. People ask why I spend time here and this is one of the reasons. I try to cut through all the hearsay, bs and axe grinding to get to the facts and some times they are supported and many times they are not. But I think it is important for fornits own credibility to pursue the facts as far as they lead and let the facts determine the outcome, not someone’s spin or a random anon posts out of the blue which will satisfy their need to make the program look bad.
Could someone find an instance when HLA was in noncompliance as far as the meds go? Of course I believe it has happened. If a nurse gets sick or gets a flat tire on the way to her job at a public school and when the bell rings at 8:15 then the school is without a nurse for awhile and they get by. No one goes to jail or gets written up. If a teacher gets sick and they call in a substitute teacher who is not certified do we light our torches and try to shut the school system down?
HLA showed they hired many nurses and pharmacy technicians. When there were changes and nurses were fired they notified the parents as was evident in the correspondences from HLA to the parents. I am not saying HLA is an ideal place but so far the evidence of medical distribution doesn’t seem to be criminal based on the facts to date.
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I believe my previous posts stated very clearly that my son was given the wrong medication and dosages.
I also know of several children who ran out of their psychotropic meds and did not get them for several days because HLA forgot to fill the prescriptions and/or because their account was in arrears with the local pharmacy and they had not yet switched over to WalMart.
Isn't Michael Jackson's doctor possibly facing homicide charges for given an improper dosage of medication? Why is this any different?
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There are countless times that I have been on a similar path of discovery and when the facts begin to show that they are not going to support their particular agenda then they bailout or derail the thread
I would sincerly love to see you provide a single instance of this. When have you ever be interested in the truth about these places John? You've got coroborating testimony from former inmates, parents, staff members, you have emails with outright lies, and yet you still somehow miss it.
Going a few hours or a few days isnt something to light torches over. Going six months or a year is. HLA willfully lied to parents about how their sick children were being treated and by whom. A receptionist can dispense meds provided she has adequete supervision by someone with a valid medical license. The pharmacist isnt supervising her, he isnt overseeing anything beyond his own work and the people working for him. You keep missing that because you arent interested in the truth.
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There are countless times that I have been on a similar path of discovery and when the facts begin to show that they are not going to support their particular agenda then they bailout or derail the thread
I would sincerly love to see you provide a single instance of this. When have you ever be interested in the truth about these places John? You've got coroborating testimony from former inmates, parents, staff members, you have emails with outright lies, and yet you still somehow miss it.
Going a few hours or a few days isnt something to light torches over. Going six months or a year is. HLA willfully lied to parents about how their sick children were being treated and by whom. A receptionist can dispense meds provided she has adequete supervision by someone with a valid medical license. The pharmacist isnt supervising her, he isnt overseeing anything beyond his own work and the people working for him. You keep missing that because you arent interested in the truth.
Link?
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What do you want a link to? Call Kit Wallace at DHR/ORS and asked her to send you a copy of the report.
There are reports from Ridge Creek as well in which the kids told the state officials exactly what was going on.
You have been given the POCs to obtain the data; either go get it and get the facts or stop wasting our time with the same moronic question - "Link?"
There are countless times that I have been on a similar path of discovery and when the facts begin to show that they are not going to support their particular agenda then they bailout or derail the thread
I would sincerly love to see you provide a single instance of this. When have you ever be interested in the truth about these places John? You've got coroborating testimony from former inmates, parents, staff members, you have emails with outright lies, and yet you still somehow miss it.
Going a few hours or a few days isnt something to light torches over. Going six months or a year is. HLA willfully lied to parents about how their sick children were being treated and by whom. A receptionist can dispense meds provided she has adequete supervision by someone with a valid medical license. The pharmacist isnt supervising her, he isnt overseeing anything beyond his own work and the people working for him. You keep missing that because you arent interested in the truth.
Link?
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What do you want a link to? Call Kit Wallace at DHR/ORS and asked her to send you a copy of the report.
There are reports from Ridge Creek as well in which the kids told the state officials exactly what was going on.
You have been given the POCs to obtain the data; either go get it and get the facts or stop wasting our time with the same moronic question - "Link?"
Guest99, I have been following your posts. I understand that you were told that a nurse would be distributing the meds and instead an unlicensed person was doing the job. As a parent I would be mad too. I may even pull my child if I had one there. That is why we have been having this conversation. We have researched the laws and found that there was no license required to dispense medication, which surprised me. You only needed a person with a GED with oversight which was not clearly defined. Does this mean a procedure for each med written by the pharmacist? A direct report to a licensed person? Or someone who can read labels off the medication jars? This is where we are at. HLA did have several nurses and a pharmacy technician at various times there.
Was HLA in violation at any one point? Probably, that is what inspections are for. They detect and uncover violations write them up and give the violators time to respond, resolve the issues and implement corrective action. If the school continues to ignore the laws than they lose their license.
But so far there doesnt seem to be any evidence that any laws were broken (on the issue of dispensing drugs).
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Tell us again what HLA was licensed as for the first eleven years, and how many inspections ORS did. You said it yourself oversight is required. Yet without any medical personell at all where was that oversight coming from?
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Tell us again what HLA was licensed as for the first eleven years, and how many inspections ORS did. You said it yourself oversight is required. Yet without any medical personell at all where was that oversight coming from?
Bruce, Read the post and then the link to the requirements (which was posted a few times by several people). I doesnt matter what I say or what anyone else says. Try to support your position using the law and facts. We are trying to determine what oversight is needed and how that is defined. Until we understand that (the Requirements)we cant determine if HLA was in violation. Do you see what we are saying?
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I believe we all expected that in this day and age Georgia would have strict laws governing who can dispense prescription medications in Residential Child Care Facilities. What we have discovered, quite painfully and at the expense of our children, is that Georgia is backwards and does not protect the children in their state with simple, concise laws and regulations. We've also discovered that people such as Bucci will exploit every weakness to his advantage to get his greedy paws on a dollar and it will be at the expense of your child's health and well-being.
I specifically asked about the medical staff and how medications were administered/dispensed and was told HLA had a full-time nurse on staff. I was led to believe the full-time nurse was a requirement because of some Georiga law. Boy were we wrong. Unfortunately we didn't find this out until AFTER incidents starting occuring and HLA was called out on the carpet for these incidents. Ah, but disclose an issue at HLA and all of sudden you're labeled as being difficult and not working with the program. What's even more unbelievable is staff there trying to deny medications were dispensed incorrectly or that kids ran out of medications and went without them for days. We were also led to believe that HLA was a LICENSED therapeutic boarding school - the state of Georgia does not license or recognize TBS's. Imagine the shock when we called the state to inquire about licensure and found out the only rules/laws/regulations that applied to HLA could be those that applied to say a tent & awning company because HLA was only registered as a regular business AND, most important to remember, is that HLA fought licensure for years until we all stepped in and threatened legal action against the state for failing to protect these children.
The bottom-line is HLA marketed themselves as having top-notch staff who would provide excellent care and treatment for our children. There was a high expectation from my perspective that HLA would provide what was promised, but they failed miserably. Did they break any laws? I would actually say no because those laws never applied to them because they were never licensed. If anything good has come from this it is the fact that we have helped put measures in place to ensure the safety and well-being of any child who may be placed in one of Bucci's programs. It won't stop there though - that I will promise you.
What do you want a link to? Call Kit Wallace at DHR/ORS and asked her to send you a copy of the report.
There are reports from Ridge Creek as well in which the kids told the state officials exactly what was going on.
You have been given the POCs to obtain the data; either go get it and get the facts or stop wasting our time with the same moronic question - "Link?"
Guest99, I have been following your posts. I understand that you were told that a nurse would be distributing the meds and instead an unlicensed person was doing the job. As a parent I would be mad too. I may even pull my child if I had one there. That is why we have been having this conversation. We have researched the laws and found that there was no license required to dispense medication, which surprised me. You only needed a person with a GED with oversight which was not clearly defined. Does this mean a procedure for each med written by the pharmacist? A direct report to a licensed person? Or someone who can read labels off the medication jars? This is where we are at. HLA did have several nurses and a pharmacy technician at various times there.
Was HLA in violation at any one point? Probably, that is what inspections are for. They detect and uncover violations write them up and give the violators time to respond, resolve the issues and implement corrective action. If the school continues to ignore the laws than they lose their license.
But so far there doesnt seem to be any evidence that any laws were broken (on the issue of dispensing drugs).
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Something else to think about: How corrupt must the state of Georgia and/or Lumpkin County be to allow a business who promoted itself as a Therapeutic Boarding School to operate without any oversight for so many years. Who was paid off in the state or in Lumpkin County to allow this to run status quo for so many years?
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Several people actually. A few years ago there was a list posted on here of various politicans who Buchi and his family members along with Spoonie had all made large contributions to. Not surprisingly HLA then "earned" (bought and paid for) a commendation from the Georgia Legislature. Maybe someone can dig that up. Shh used to blather on about it all the time.
Bruce, Read the post and then the link to the requirements (which was posted a few times by several people). I doesnt matter what I say or what anyone else says. Try to support your position using the law and facts. We are trying to determine what oversight is needed and how that is defined. Until we understand that (the Requirements)we cant determine if HLA was in violation. Do you see what we are saying?
First off there is no 'we', there is just you. Secondly whatever oversight is required (and I for once agree with you. It needs to be clearly defined for the discussion) I'm positive that zero oversight by anyone wouldnt meet the govt standards. Which is exactly what the situation was (or may still be) at HLA.
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Its okay, thewho, Bruce never read Jills posts and emails. Let him believe what he wants, he is happier that way.
You don’t have to tell me, Bruce posts for an entirely different reason then the rest of us. Fact finding is not high on his list.
There are countless times that I have been on a similar path of discovery and when the facts begin to show that they are not going to support their particular agenda then they bailout or derail the thread. People ask why I spend time here and this is one of the reasons. I try to cut through all the hearsay, bs and axe grinding to get to the facts and some times they are supported and many times they are not. But I think it is important for fornits own credibility to pursue the facts as far as they lead and let the facts determine the outcome, not someone’s spin or a random anon posts out of the blue which will satisfy their need to make the program look bad.
Could someone find an instance when HLA was in noncompliance as far as the meds go? Of course I believe it has happened. If a nurse gets sick or gets a flat tire on the way to her job at a public school and when the bell rings at 8:15 then the school is without a nurse for awhile and they get by. No one goes to jail or gets written up. If a teacher gets sick and they call in a substitute teacher who is not certified do we light our torches and try to shut the school system down?
HLA showed they hired many nurses and pharmacy technicians. When there were changes and nurses were fired they notified the parents as was evident in the correspondences from HLA to the parents. I am not saying HLA is an ideal place but so far the evidence of medical distribution doesn’t seem to be criminal based on the facts to date.
This is a bold faced lie as pertaining to when our children were there . We were not informed the nurse was fired. No one would have ever known. The letters were sent out because of all the EXPOSED mishaps with Meds, pressure from advocates and respective families - it was no different than what transpired with the Spec. Ed. teacher. The point of the letters was to inform people such as you, that it depended on who was writing them as to who was dispensing meds.
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What do you want a link to? Call Kit Wallace at DHR/ORS and asked her to send you a copy of the report.
There are reports from Ridge Creek as well in which the kids told the state officials exactly what was going on.
You have been given the POCs to obtain the data; either go get it and get the facts or stop wasting our time with the same moronic question - "Link?"
Guest99, I have been following your posts. I understand that you were told that a nurse would be distributing the meds and instead an unlicensed person was doing the job. As a parent I would be mad too. I may even pull my child if I had one there. That is why we have been having this conversation. We have researched the laws and found that there was no license required to dispense medication, which surprised me. You only needed a person with a GED with oversight which was not clearly defined. Does this mean a procedure for each med written by the pharmacist? A direct report to a licensed person? Or someone who can read labels off the medication jars? This is where we are at. HLA did have several nurses and a pharmacy technician at various times there.
Was HLA in violation at any one point? Probably, that is what inspections are for. They detect and uncover violations write them up and give the violators time to respond, resolve the issues and implement corrective action. If the school continues to ignore the laws than they lose their license.
But so far there doesnt seem to be any evidence that any laws were broken (on the issue of dispensing drugs).
AND IF YOU DID NOT HAVE A CHILD AT HLA, HOW DID YOU COME ABOUT YOUR FABRICATED KNOWLEDGE OF UMTEEN NURSES AND PHARMACY TECHS...
lET'S NOT FORGET THE NIGHT STAFF THAT HANDED OUT MEDS.... The ORS can write them up until the cows come home, nothing will be done until a child dies at one of Buccellato's 'camps'. We know his colors and his spots, he will continue on this path, until he is stopped and so will the ORS.
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I believe we all expected that in this day and age Georgia would have strict laws governing who can dispense prescription medications in Residential Child Care Facilities. What we have discovered, quite painfully and at the expense of our children, is that Georgia is backwards and does not protect the children in their state with simple, concise laws and regulations. We've also discovered that people such as Bucci will exploit every weakness to his advantage to get his greedy paws on a dollar and it will be at the expense of your child's health and well-being.
I specifically asked about the medical staff and how medications were administered/dispensed and was told HLA had a full-time nurse on staff. I was led to believe the full-time nurse was a requirement because of some Georiga law. Boy were we wrong. Unfortunately we didn't find this out until AFTER incidents starting occuring and HLA was called out on the carpet for these incidents. Ah, but disclose an issue at HLA and all of sudden you're labeled as being difficult and not working with the program. What's even more unbelievable is staff there trying to deny medications were dispensed incorrectly or that kids ran out of medications and went without them for days. We were also led to believe that HLA was a LICENSED therapeutic boarding school - the state of Georgia does not license or recognize TBS's. Imagine the shock when we called the state to inquire about licensure and found out the only rules/laws/regulations that applied to HLA could be those that applied to say a tent & awning company because HLA was only registered as a regular business AND, most important to remember, is that HLA fought licensure for years until we all stepped in and threatened legal action against the state for failing to protect these children.
The bottom-line is HLA marketed themselves as having top-notch staff who would provide excellent care and treatment for our children. There was a high expectation from my perspective that HLA would provide what was promised, but they failed miserably. Did they break any laws? I would actually say no because those laws never applied to them because they were never licensed. If anything good has come from this it is the fact that we have helped put measures in place to ensure the safety and well-being of any child who may be placed in one of Bucci's programs. It won't stop there though - that I will promise you.
I am sorry you had to go thru that 99, I was fortunate that my daughter received very good care at the program she attended. They lived up to what they marketed. If that was not the case and she was damaged in any way by I would be feeling the same way you do.
I tend to agree with you that no laws were broken, although they were not honest with the parents. There are enough people here on fornits ready to jump on them for the slightest infraction and if HLA did cross the line we would see the HLA board light up here. Like I mentioned I wouldn’t send my child to HLA after what I have learned about it here on fornits from hearing stories from people like yourself and Jill Ryan. I don’t think it does anyone any good to lie about what they experienced and stretch the truth in obvious desperation to discredit HLA at all costs like some posters here do (not mentioning any names).
What goes a long way in exposing damaging programs is being consistent and truthful in each person story and experiences. When the stories don’t match up it really throws doubt onto what to really believe, in my opinion. Getting the word out that HLA and their leadership staff has not been honest with the parents and treatment of their children will go a long way in raising the awareness needed to dissuade other parents who may be considering placement at HLA or Ridge Creek School.
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You bring up a good point John, it's important that in holding these places accountable honesty is always paramount. Other than the numerous ones you've told, what lies do you think were told on here concerning HLA really stand out the most to you?
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Hidden Lake Academy is a fine school made up of highly qualified personell who are there for one purpose: TO RAISE CHILDREN WHEN THE PARENTS HAVE FAILED TO DO SO. Anyone who thinks differently is an idiot. Plain and Simple.
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Hidden Lake Academy is a fine school made up of highly qualified personell who are there for one purpose: TO RAISE CHILDREN WHEN THE PARENTS HAVE FAILED TO DO SO. Anyone who thinks differently is an idiot. Plain and Simple.
Nicole, Hidden Lake Academy is no longer. Your 'hero' has re-opened as Ridge Creek School.
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Hidden Lake Academy is a fine school made up of highly qualified personell who are there for one purpose: TO RAISE CHILDREN WHEN THE PARENTS HAVE FAILED TO DO SO. Anyone who thinks differently is an idiot. Plain and Simple.
Did you mean to say: "highly qualified personnel"? It would help if you could spell, but that's probably from that "fine" education you received at HLA. :beat:
The "highly qualified personnel" you speak of are anything but. You can check the facts for yourself, but I guess that's just what we "idiots" do when we seek the truth.
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Can anyone give me some information on Anna Jones? In our past (in the past thank god) we have found her to be a dispicable lier and just a front "man" to cover up what is really going on. I am sure she is at Ridge Creek School since the name has changed only to protect the pocketbooks. Also, what steps can be taken to stop the lies about RCS, since they are using all the HLA photos and testimonials.
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Can anyone give me some information on Anna Jones? In our past (in the past thank god) we have found her to be a dispicable lier and just a front "man" to cover up what is really going on. I am sure she is at Ridge Creek School since the name has changed only to protect the pocketbooks. Also, what steps can be taken to stop the lies about RCS, since they are using all the HLA photos and testimonials.
I'm not sure where Anna Jones is these days...
Please write Mr. Keith Bostick, who runs ORS's Child Caring Institutions: https://secure.sos.state.ga.us/myverifi ... laint.aspx (https://secure.sos.state.ga.us/myverification/SubmitComplaint.aspx)
I would also recommend calling the Secretary of State's office directly and the Attorney General's office.