Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: ajax13 on July 05, 2009, 11:27:15 PM
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Today was slated for the Wiz's annual self-congratulatory church social. In the past, this was an opportunity for scum-bag politicians to pay homage to Calgary's version of the Unification church. AARC shills such as Ron Stevens and Paddy Meade could be counted on to show up, and the event was usually covered by the Sun and Herald social pages. What with the Wiz being exposed as an amateur masquerading as a health care professional on national television, the divulgence by CBC that AARC's principle sales gimmick, their 2005 study, is a fraud, and the questions arising about the millions of dollars sucked into AARC to provide daycare for 3 or 4 dozen people each year, can the love for the Wiz's rip-off continue?
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Any news coverage yet, of this dubiously feted event?
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Yes. Global covered the flap jack fest and accompaning protest. 'ocal news 6 and 11
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Drove by on my way to see my brother yesterday and I have to say...
EPIC FAIL!!
I counted maybe 6 protesters who had to put there signs on extra long twigs so they could be seen from the opposite side of the fence as the "protesters" were on the Glenmore side barely hanging on to the chain linked fence.
On my way back home - they had all left...
ROFLMFAO at the feeble attempt to protest the cult - maybe you should take some serious advise from Anonymous and WBM on how to protest properly - what a waste of a good Sunday...
Guest44431444
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I feel bad that I didn't go, but as a former client, I've been through enough humiliation on Forge Rd. I can't even drive down Glenmore without feeling like I'm going to puke.
I'm very grateful to everyone who went to AARC and the Hyatt to protest.
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I feel bad that I didn't go, but as a former client, I've been through enough humiliation on Forge Rd. I can't even drive down Glenmore without feeling like I'm going to puke.
I'm very grateful to everyone who went to AARC and the Hyatt to protest.
It is certainly intimidating once you cut ties with AARC. Way to go Tammi - saw you on the news, you did great.
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Drove by on my way to see my brother yesterday and I have to say...
EPIC FAIL!!
It's getting the message out there that counts, not the number of protesters. And we certainly got the message out there.
You should have joined us Guest, if it's numbers that count.
KHK Was closed down due to a small few dedicated protesters. If our protesting makes some people uncomfortable enough to make some changes then maybe there will be a few kids saved from being broken down by AARC.
No one can tell people what to do, but they need to have enough information to make an informed decision.
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It is certainly intimidating once you cut ties with AARC. Way to go Tammi - saw you on the news, you did great.
Thank you
:on phone: <------ AARC supporters at the pancake breakfast
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Drove by on my way to see my brother yesterday and I have to say...
EPIC FAIL!!
I counted maybe 6 protesters who had to put there signs on extra long twigs so they could be seen from the opposite side of the fence as the "protesters" were on the Glenmore side barely hanging on to the chain linked fence.
On my way back home - they had all left...
ROFLMFAO at the feeble attempt to protest the cult - maybe you should take some serious advise from Anonymous and WBM on how to protest properly - what a waste of a good Sunday...
Guest44431444
Now since you weren't out protesting at AARC, your former place of employment, why would you refer to the protest as a waste of a good Sunday? You just can't give up telling folks what they ought to do, can you AARColyte? I can't speak for the protesters, but I can't imagine that they viewed their effort as a waste. As for the protest being an epic fail, it made the television news. This is a monumental shift away from AARC's position in the public eye only one year ago. Last year, the society pages were giving AARC the usual hand-job after the Stampede breakfast, complete with accompanying photo of the narcissistic little conman himself. No more. So rather than an epic failure, the protest, having made the news, was in fact a tremendous success. There's no putting the pile of shit that is AARC back in the chamber pot. The pot is broken. While AARColytes can can continue to avow their loyalty to the leader and their belief in the wonders of belonging to the AARC sect, the public is no longer going to buy the utter lie that AARC provides legitimate medical treatment for people suffering from drug addiction. The days of AARC puff pieces being generated every few months in print and television news are long gone. So gnash your teeth little AARColyte boy, the Golden Age of the Calgary Synanon is over.
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Ajax13 - GFY...
Also - please, don't EVER e-mail me again with your useless BS, I waste enough time reading your dribble on this forum, I don't need your crap in my in-box too.
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Ajax13 - GFY...
Also - please, don't EVER e-mail me again with your useless BS, I waste enough time reading your dribble on this forum, I don't need your crap in my in-box too.
Why would anyone spend one fraction of a second reading or writing anything on this forum if they felt it was a waste of time? The socio-religious group that is a cornerstone of the AARColyte self-concept has been exposed as a fraud, as has it's leader, a person to whom AARColytes attributed a good deal of authority in their lives. The effort to expose and terminate AARC represents a real threat to them which is why we see examples such as Guest44431444 attempting to deceive and manipulate the readers of this forum, and having failed that, resorting to lashing out at them with the long-time AARC accusation of being relapsed druggies. Take heart though AARColytes. The last time the Wiz was involved with a cult that was exposed, he carried on ministering to a few of the faithful in people's basements. Perhaps he'll minister to you somewhere down in the Caribbean once he bolts from Calgary.
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If AARC has been exposed, as you put it, then apparently it is a good thing for them. Their latest fundraiser was up 22% from last year. So the “exposure” you are talking about has been positive for the bottom line. Keep up the good work, Ajax!! See if we can boost it up again for next year, by getting the word out.
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If AARC has been exposed, as you put it, then apparently it is a good thing for them. Their latest fundraiser was up 22% from last year. So the “exposure” you are talking about has been positive for the bottom line. Keep up the good work, Ajax!! See if we can boost it up again for next year, by getting the word out.
Ajax, you're delaing with a little sociopath we call "Whooter." He's just a troll whose life has collapsed upon him. Keep doing what you're doing and ignore this freakshow. Or pop in to the two "Who" threads we got going and trash him there where he belongs.
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AARC's corporate backers will have to withdraw quietly from this fiasco. With Paddy Meade's untimely demise at the Health Superboard, AARC will soon have to kiss their government stipend good-bye. The corporate community in Calgary will not tolerate another public shaming such as the one that resulted from Fifth Estate. A goodly sum of money is being diverted to lawyers by AARC of late, but so far, all for naught. The Wiz claimed they were suing everybody, but since the fundamental facts remained that he is a consummate fraud and con artist operating a cult that subjects initiates to a dangerous and entirely pseudoscientific regimen of rituals passed down from Synanon, he didn't have a leg to stand on. Lojek and pals took control of AARC's client records in an effort to stem the flow of evidence of AARC's criminal malpractise, and threatened CBC, but it was a bluff. The fact remains, the Wiz is a phys ed teacher/guidance counselor posing as a mental health practitioner. The entire program exists to create more members of the sect, increasing the Wiz's wealth and power. The clinical staff is composed of amateurs who have spent their entire adult lives in the sect, and the majority of "treatment", which consists of group behaviour coercion, is overseen by the peer counselors, who are entirely without qualification to provide mental health interventions. So, to sum up, there was no possible way for AARC to get into a court room standing on a slippery pile of shit, such as it is.
We have no idea how much money AARC garnered post-Fifth Estate. AARC's financial dealings have been misrepresented to the public since they were called Kids of the Canadian West. But there is no turning back the clock for AARC now.
By the by, the AARColyte posting here as Guest44431444 is not theWho, he is a former AARC staffer who concocted an ill-thought-out story in order to try to subvert the dissemination of real information about his cult. The Who has bigger problems on his plate today.
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Ajax13 - Again, GFY!
Sent to me via PM today by the wonder-kid himself - ajax13...
That's a very AARColyte method of lashing out that you used, little boy. Are you cognicent of it, or does it just come naturally to AARColytes? It's a standard operating procedure in totalist environments, where private communication is exposed to a group in order to undermine the individual's sense of security and to shame the individual before the group. The Chinese used it in their re-education camps, and here you are all these years later using it to defend your cult.
See you in the funny papers little boy. If you want, though, do feel free to leave your e-mail address. You're welcome to tell me to go fuck myself to my face any time you desire.
If you only knew who I really was - but please, have your little fun on this board entertaining random thoughts of just how great you think you are.
You can't even spell.
Guest44431444
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Ajax13 - Again, GFY!
Sent to me via PM today by the wonder-kid himself - ajax13...
That's a very AARColyte method of lashing out that you used, little boy. Are you cognicent of it, or does it just come naturally to AARColytes? It's a standard operating procedure in totalist environments, where private communication is exposed to a group in order to undermine the individual's sense of security and to shame the individual before the group. The Chinese used it in their re-education camps, and here you are all these years later using it to defend your cult.
See you in the funny papers little boy. If you want, though, do feel free to leave your e-mail address. You're welcome to tell me to go fuck myself to my face any time you desire.
If you only knew who I really was - but please, have your little fun on this board entertaining random thoughts of just how great you think you are.
You can't even spell.
Guest44431444
Funny thing is, what Ajax says makes a lot of sense.
The other thing that comes through, loud and clear I'm afraid, is what kind of person post someone's private message to them right on a message board? THAT says a lot to me about the kind of mindset that AARC probably supports and perpetrates.
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Yet another message from boy-wonder himself...
That tactic doesn't work, AARColyte. You've still got infantile egotism that makes you think you're smarter than other people, when in fact they know exactly what you're doing. You started posting pretending to empathize with the folks on here, but you were too stupid to walk the line between overtly expressing agreement while trying to backhandedly play down the fraudulent nature of AARC and and your relationship to it. When you fucked up, you lashed out at the people willing to stand up to AARC and called them relapsed addicts. Not only are you deceitful, you're stupid and cowardly. While you may have been a victim of AARC when you were young, now you're just a creep trying to antagonize people because your belief system is under threat. That and you derive the same pleasure other deviants do from manipulating and harming other folks. My offer still stands. And by all means, post this private message in the public forum. I've seen you do that before little boy.
I guess one day you'll grow up - until then, keep posting your BS.
At least this time, you spell checked your spew.
Guest44431444
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One of the biggest handicaps that plague AARColytes is their inability to empathize. Here's Guest44431444 lashing out after his bizarre attempt to spin AARC backfires:
"i guess why I have a differing opinion than most of you is that I chose to stay clean after I left AARC although my father stayed a corporate contributor and had his life royally screwed up and used to "cult-speak" me as well."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27646&p=333314#p333314 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27646&p=333314#p333314)
But now he just wants to share with the group:
"Wow, can I relate to the OP - I too am going through deprogramming after sixteen years...
I was not in Straight or Pathways but AARC in Calgary, what a way to completely mess up me, my family and all of my relationships I once had.
To this day, I still have no relationship with my father, my brother and I are coming around and a lot of my friends I had are starting to re-surface.
I too find it weird to interact with normal people after so many years of forcing myself to believe as that was the only way I'd be accepted by my family, turns out as I found out yesterday, they were against me for being a part of the program as AARC forced them to believe stuff they couldn't.
I hope one day to regain some sort or normality back in my life but I struggle everyday with serious depression and fear of what might happen - the old cult mantra keeps playing the fucking tape in my head day in and day out...
I am lucky that I have a supportive wife and kids to help keep me going as I am sure if it were just me forging through this mess, I just could not do it.
Guest44431444"
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26994&p=336044#p336044 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26994&p=336044#p336044)
Although he has already attacked the opponents of AARC by implying that they're simply relapsed addicts, and he's taken time from his busy schedule to call the AARC protest a waste of a day, here he is again unable to comprehend that others can see what he's doing.
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Ajax13 (your age no doubt)...
What you are missing here is that I never, ever suggested people here who are not part of AARC, or any other 12 step program, as relapsed addicts - I don't where the hell you got that...
What I did suggest was that a person who is know for their pro-pot movement protesting against AARC is ridiculous, or anyone still using drugs for that matter - it seems extremely hypocritical, that WAS my point.
It's like a heroin addict trying to sober up another heroin addict while still using - it's hypocritical!
So again, what exactly are you trying to prove ajax13?
Somebody so hell bent on attacking individuals must certainly have some pretty significant insecurities - do you need a teddy and a nap?
Guest44431444
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"i guess why I have a differing opinion than most of you is that I chose to stay clean after I left AARC"
Was there some ambiguity there that we missed regarding your intentions with this statement? Now you took the time to call everyone 16-year-olds, implied that they were against AARC because they didn't stay clean after leaving AARC, then you called the AARC protest an epic fail, even resorting to a bizarre petty description of their placards using the word twigs, called the protest a waste, and then whined about being attacked.
It's time to face facts AARColyte. Despite deviants like you trying to subvert the forum, despite your efforts to intimidate former clients who spoke out, despite the overwhelming exploitation of television and print media by AARC, despite the corruption of politicians used to sell AARC to the public, the truth is out. Whatever your agenda is, it's too late. Enough people were able to gain access to the proven facts related to AARC that the cat was let out of the bag.
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Ajax13 - your arguments are baseless.
You claim to be stating facts your not even certain about.
You have accused me of both being on staff or former staff - that could never be the farthest thing from the truth.
You have attacked me by twisting my words to say that I called everyone relapsed addicts - farthest from the truth. I simply stated that I stayed clean after I left AARC, where do you get the BS of calling everyone relapsed addicts.
Now I am deviant? Why, I feel like I just got promoted to some new level - perhaps I'm getting under your skin a little now and you'll finally get honest with who you really are.
Perhaps you may even out yourself as to when you went to AARC or did you? Perhaps all your arguments are useless as you have no idea what the hell goes on behind closed doors - maybe that is the truth about ajax13?
Just remember, I was one of the first 25, so if you retrieve the records, you'd be able to figure it out pretty quick. I was there when Brian was a "peer councilor" and Jocelyn Comeau was the coordinator. Even he saw the writing on the wall and bailed but unfortunately, it was to late for Brian (R.I.P).
Let me say for the record - As I was walking out the door of AARC, Dr. Clause told me I'd never get sober no matter where I went, well 16 years later and I'm still not drunk or drugged.
Guest44431444
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Get honest? You clearly stated that your opinion of AARC is different from those posting here because you stayed clean. It's not twisting your words. Whatever your agenda is now AARColyte, it just isn't going to fly.
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I'm sorry ajax13 - when did you say you attended AARC to make you such an expert on it?
Please, share...
Guest44431444
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How does me staying clean after walking out AARC make me invalidate everyone's opinion here? Please, explain.
Do I see things differently than you, yes, but that doesn't make me a target to attack me both publicly and via PM because I see things different than you.
Remember ajax13, there are ALWAYS two sides to EVERY story - you just like to see and hear your side only while twisting things around the way you see fit .
So again - when did you say you attended AARC, just for the record.
Guest44431444
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If anyone has links to any news coverage, video or photos concerning this protest, please post. Thanks.
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Here are the principle salient facts about AARC: the clients coming in are not assessesed by qualified medical personnel, yet they are diagnosed with a medical condition. This diagnosis is made by amateur staff. Thus many people are admitted to AARC who do not suffer from the medical condition with which they are diagnosed by AARC staff. Once admitted to AARC, the treatment regimen used in AARC is not based in any accepted legitimate medical practise. It is in fact, the identical group coercion system used in Synanon and the subsequently derived entities the Seed, Straight Inc., and Kids. The man who claims to have created this treatment system, Dean Vause, is not a mental health professional. He is a former phys ed teacher and school guidance counselor. He is also a former employee of Kids. The clinical staff is also made up of non-professionals. Colin Brown and Natalie Imbach are both former clients who have been in AARC for most of their adult lives, as has staffer Bryan Campbell.
The day to day treatment is conducted by peer counselors, who like Vause and the clinical staff are also amateurs. For many years, the clients in AARC were allowed to see only Dr. Allan Stanhope, who was and is again a board member of AARC. Many AARC clients were sent to AARC by Dr. Stanhope's wife, Judge Cooke-Stanhope. Additional conflicts of interest regarding AARC staff and representatives of agencies responsible for the welfare of their charges include Pete Sorkoff and his wife. AARC clients are deprived of a number of basic rights, and are held against their will illegally while in the initial stage of indoctrination in AARC. These Level 1 clients are forced to stay in unmonitored unregulated host homes until they progress to the next level of the sect. The program is set up with a Newcomer/Oldcomer system taken from Kids. This system gives Oldcomers power over Newcomers, who must obey the Oldcomers.
There is no medical evidence that the system used at AARC produces long-term abstinence in chemically dependent subjects.
A stay in AARC is not required to learn any of these facts, AARColyte.
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All well and good. But 85% of the people who get thru to graduation are still clean and sober after 4 years. No one has ever been held.. they all leave after graduation. If you want doctors and prescriptions drugs then go to a hospital and sit in AA meeting twice a week and sip coffee. If you want to live a clean and sober life and get back on track then go to AARC.
Everyone has a choice. Neither path makes you a bad person.
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I am absolutely in disbelief that you had the nerve to try and discredit me and my experience at AARC when you have not even been through the front door.
If you've never been put into AARC, Straight or Kids - why are you even here? To debate people's experiences and to accuse anyone who speaks up as a current / former staff member or cult member?
I am sorry - I had no idea I was being lead to believe that you were once a client and had loads of experience to fall back onto with your points, my bad for being naive.
If you've never been or don't have a problem - why are you hanging out in a recovery center forum?
Guest44431444
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A stay in AARCis not a prerequisite to point out your hamfisted attempt to defend your cult. AARColyte, one does not follow directly from the other. You weren't being led to believe anything. But you are still welcome to explain which of the aforementioned facts about AARC can only be learned by staying in AARC. Again, you betray your allegiance to the cult by implying the "sacred knowledge" that is only imparted to members.
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Ajax13 - your a pathetic excuse for an argument.
I am only sorry to have actually wasted my time debating facts with someone who doesn't know.
Enjoy the day!
Guest44431444
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As with all AARColytes who have posted here, you didn't debate any facts. You tried to legitimize AARC, insulted the people speaking out against it, cried that you were being attacked, and then resorted to the final desperate AARColyte gambit of assailing me, without addressing a single point related to AARC's practises. But just so you don't forget, the amateur staff employed by AARC use a method of behaviour modification that involves breaking down the individual through isolation, group coercion and an array of other control methods taken from Synanon and it's follow up phony drug treatment programs such as Kids. These methods, having never been scientifically proven to remedy drug addiction, have shown a tendency to cause long-term psychological harm to those exposed to them.
Bye bye AARcolyte, enjoy the day!
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ajax13 - Please, enlighten us all as to how you have become such an expert on AARC and recovery when you've never even been through the door?
I would love to sit here and watch you make even more of an ass out of yourself, but I think my job here is done, you have been outed as a troll who has nothing better to do than try and argue facts that you don't have any clue about and to make outrageous bullshit based accusations.
You have attempted to pin "staff" or "AARColyte" labels on anyone who cares to call your bullshit and tell you to your face you have no clue what you are talking about - you've never even seen the inside of the building!
You've never been to AARC, Straight or Kids - so what the hell opinion of yours should matter more than one who has.
Why don't you go and play around in the knitting forums - I am sure you'd have some great insight to knitting as well.
Care to take it offline - please, e-mail me again with more of your tirades and threats!
Guest44431444
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AARColyte, you are still welcome to present facts about AARC that contradict those that I have pointed out. None of them are opinions. As always, feel free to point out which of those facts could only be learned by being an AARC client. Now AARColyte, if you really wanted to take it offline, you would have sent me a PM, as I did you. So as with all disingenuous AARColytes, it's as hard for those of us reading your incoherencies to determine your agenda as it must be for you. By the by, why do you keep referring to time being wasted in this forum, yet you continue to post and continue to to make statements devoid of any pertinent facts or details. Critical thinking is a skill that is sorely lacking in all of you AARColytes.
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That should have read - wasting my time with you.
You are clueless - have absolutely no clue what you are even talking about outside what has been brought into these forums or hearsay.
You consistently bash Dr. Clause - but you've never even met the ass clown - so that makes your comments against him void.
See what I am getting at ajax13 - you don't even have a peg leg to stand on - your credibility just went down the toilet.
Facts;
- I was there - twice.
- Was one of the first 25
- Never was or will be a staff member
- Knew Brian, Peter, Jocelyn and Bill very well
- Watched Anthony struggle with delusions every day
- Know of only 3 people still sober after graduating during my time there
- Understand how the program runs
- Was part of several RAPS
- Can validate the claims about Oldcomers vs. Newcomers
- Can validate the claims of the power hunger that Dr. Clause has
- Can validate the policy about not allowing people to leave
- Can validate that the Stanhope's have a real policy for sending people there (addicted or not - I was admitted in by Dr. Stanhope)
and the list goes on and on....
Where are your facts ajax13 - might be a little difficult for you to come up with considering you've never been or even stepped foot in.
Again - why are you here? Why do you hang around a recovery center forum when you have no experience with any of the one's listed here?
Guest44431444
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Silly AARColyte, which of these facts regarding Dean Vause is made "void" if one has not met him?
Dean Vause has repeatedly presented himself as a mental health professional, when he is not.
Dean Vause claims to have devised the system used in AARC when in fact it came directly from Kids.
Dean Vause was an employee of Kids, a criminal entity that fraudulently diagnosed people with medical conditions they did not have, and subjected these people to an array of human and civil rights abuses.
Dean Vause became the Executive Director of AARC, which began as a branch of Kids.
Dean Vause called Christine Lunn and Rachael O'Neil liars on national television when they made public allegations regarding the abuse they suffered in AARC.
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All you had to do was watch the Fifth Estate special to disseminate that information.
Anyhow - if you have nothing better, then I best be on my way to more productive things with my day albeit this is kind of fun.
I still want to know - why are you on a recovery center forums speaking about AARC, Straight, Kids or recovery as to which you have no experience in any.
Guest44431444
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Well guest 44431444, I have met "the ass clown" in person, and dare I say that ajax knew more about him than I ever did. If Dr.Clause did in fact invent a miraculous treatment model for addiction, don't you think they'd be using it around the world, and teaching the AARC model in universities by now? I wonder why it's taking so long to catch on. Maybe it's because I just can't picture an educated professor teaching a room full of psychology students: "If you have a client who won't admit powerlessness, throw him against the wall. Try making fun of his appearance. Tell him that no one loves him and that he's a loser who has ruined the lives of everyone around him. Or if a client tells incidents that contradict your diagnosis of addiction, berate them and call them a liar until they admit to committing heinous acts in order to feed their addiction. And the most important thing to drill into their heads is that they would be dead without you. Then, if ever they decide that their experience at AARC was negative and damaging, hey - at least they're alive, right?"
When/if AARC gets shut down, I'm sure Dr.Clause will have a promising career as a psychic. It's truly amazing how he's able to predict the deaths of all of his inmates. Also remarkable how he called Christine a liar before Gillian Findlay had a chance to even tell him about her allegations. Quite remarkable indeed.
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AARcolyte, you said that my comments regarding Vause were void if I hadn't met him, and that's simply not the case. You claimed you were debating here, but you didn't present any facts contradicting those already presented here. And, lest we forget, you took the time to insult the people who went out to protest AARC on the week-end, calling the protest an epic fail, this after stating that those who were in disagreement with you were so because you stayed clean.
I sincerely doubt that you have anything more productive to do with your time.
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I'm not defending Dr. Clause - he's a loose cannon with fake credentials...
I just don't like when people who assume they know and make an insinuation. i.e I am staff member, AARColoyte, cult member, etc. when they don't even have a stitch of evidence to back up their claim.
It is obvious the ajax13 speaks from hearsay and not from experience that is fact.
One needs to look in the mirror and check the motives when speaking about something they have no experience with - it would be like speaking about being a heroin junkie when I've never even seen the stuff and / or only heard of what the high is like, etc.
Appreciate the input Guest.
Guest44431444
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AARcolyte, you said that my comments regarding Vause were void if I hadn't met him, and that's simply not the case. You claimed you were debating here, but you didn't present any facts contradicting those already presented here. And, lest we forget, you took the time to insult the people who went out to protest AARC on the week-end, calling the protest an epic fail, this after stating that those who were in disagreement with you were so because you stayed clean.
I sincerely doubt that you have anything more productive to do with your time.
How does it help anything to belittle this “guest” survivor?….
As you’ve never been victimized by these institutions, your denunciation of this person for not being “sincere” or "pure" enough in his abhorrence for AARC is especially unseemly.
What is your problem with the guy? That he thought the protest wasn’t handled well? That he doesn’t use the exact language you want him to in every medium? Your expectations, and reactions to people falling short of meeting them are not respectful. You exhibit the same transgressive behaviors associated with culticly indoctrinated people.
It’s OK for this guy to have an opinion on the protest, to use unclear language in personal emails, and even to see the AARC in shades of grey.
If you’d actually been victimized by one of these organizations, you might treat their survivors with compassion and respect, instead of demanding “purity” and trying to hurt them when they fail to exhibit it.
Your abusive manner might chase someone away from fornits who needs it.
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ajax13 - your comments are getting repetitive, are you running out of "facts"?
The protest on the weekend was at best, a way to piss off the "AARColytes" across the road - you have been asked to provide evidence of news coverage, etc and you did not - why?
I saw the protest and was embarrassed for those people that were there - why were you literally perched on the Glenmore instead of on the main AARC road? It's public property.
I do have much better things to do then argue with someone of your stature - but I want the facts out in the open, not just BS spewed from someone who hangs out on a recovery forum who a) Has never been to AARC, Straight or Kids and b) has no concept of recovery other than to take every opportunity to shove their ideology down people's throats...
Guest44431444
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I haven't been asked to provide anything, AARColyte. Perhaps WDTony was asking you to provide some video of the protest. As was stated earlier, you called the protest an epic fail even though it apparently made the local television news. There has never been any previous local television coverage of AARC indicating any of the serious problems inherent in the sect, so obviously the protest was not a failure. You haven't brought any facts pertaining to AARC out in the open. Your reference to my ideology is a complete non sequitor, unless you consider my opposition to the fraudulent and dangerous nature of AARC as ideology. You haven't argued anything. You insulted the people who oppose AARC, then you made two ridiculous claims that the facts about AARC and Vause can only be known by those who've been in AARC and met Vause.
Guess what AARColyte? I've never been to Yankee stadium, but I'm fairly certain that people play baseball there. But please, don't let me keep you from your busy schedule.
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Insulted people who oppose AARC - pardon?
You have been the one with the insulting demeanor towards people who have actually been there and yet, they are "staff" or "cult members".
Your only concern is defending public knowledge in a forum where you clearly have no experience outside of hearsay or media reports.
Again - ajax13, why are you here? What brought you here - just seem like a place you could bully people via threats via PM and attacking them on the forum?
There are enough people who have actually been to AARC / Straight and Kids that can shed enough light with fact not fiction.
Guest44431444
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Perhaps WDTony was asking you to provide some video of the protest.
But you are the AARC / Straight / Kids expert.
Guest44431444
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AARColyte, you've repeatedly stated that reading my posts was a waste of your time, referring to them as dribble twice, although I am sure you meant drivel. Yet you seem to hang on my every word. It's very confusing being an AARColyte I'm sure. Never quite sure what you want to say or do. You're itching to say and do something, but you're all befuddled. You made the ridiculous statement that one must have been in AARC and met Vause to make an accurate statement regarding either. That was patently silly. So now you're implying that what I've said about AARC is fiction. I will give you this, you are consistent. You have provided not one single fact related to AARC nor contradicing those that I have stated. But you stil imply that I'm using fiction. Think AARcolyte, what is it that you're trying to do?
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It seems pretty obvious to me why ajax is here. If someone you cared about was forced into a cult and abused, don't you think that would motivate you to do some research and try to expose the issue? Ajax has done his research and, in my opinion, can grasp what really goes on there more easily than some of us because he hasn't ever been brainwashed into thinking that he wouldn't be alive if not for the AARC family. Rather than criticizing how ajax exposes AARC, it would be more helpful if you debated specific facts that he points out.
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Ajax13 - No, you have made careless accusations about shit you don't know a damn thing about - that's what's got me going.
Again - you have NO experience in any program - so I am troubled as to why you post here? You don't even defend your position as to why you are here.
Like I said earlier, is it just easier for you to bully people behind a monitor - too scared to go out and face the real world?
Still awaiting your threatening PM - I didn't post the last one as it just wasn't quite threatening enough.
Guest44431444
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Rather than criticizing how ajax exposes AARC, it would be more helpful if you debated specific facts that he points out.
If he had not attacked me out of the gate and accused me of being "staff" or "former staff", "cult" or "AARColyte" - there may have been a possibility for a productive fact debate.
It has proven the it is incapable of handling a two sided debate - ajax13 is right no matter what anyone says.
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Rather than criticizing how ajax exposes AARC, it would be more helpful if you debated specific facts that he points out.
If he had not attacked me out of the gate and accused me of being "staff" or "former staff", "cult" or "AARColyte" - there may have been a possibility for a productive fact debate.
It has proven the it is incapable of handling a two sided debate - ajax13 is right no matter what anyone says.
From what I understand, guest, you are not supportive of aarc, just opposed to be being personally insulted. Is that correct? Do you feel people are systematically imprisoned and abused at the AARC?
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Poor confused AARColyte. If it's dribble and a waste of your time, it makes no sense to repeatedly post in your lame attempt to..well, I don't really know what you're trying to do, anymore than you seem to. Like all AARColytes, lying comes easily to you, but critical thinking does not. Do you feel that I've threatened you? If you did, I would have thought that you'd make a police complaint. AARColytes have tried that in the past, but sadly, since I haven't threatened you nor any other AARColyte, it all ended with a whimper rather than a bang. Now you suggested taking this offline, and because I find you particularly objectionable AARColyte, feel free to pursue that if you wish, but please use the PM if you're serious.
Aside from the fact that I think you're former staff, I haven't made any other accusations, careless or otherwise. You will have to forgive me if I've mistaken you for another one of your fellow sect members. As you've all demonsntrated deceitfulness, self-contradiction, an inability to act in a rational manner, and disdain for those who challenge the belief in your sect, it's difficult to tell one of you from another.
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Supportive - absolutely not!
I think AARC needs to be shuttered and Vause thrown in jail for the bullshit that goes on behind closed doors.
With what I experienced and witnessed while I was at AARC is nothing short of abuse, that's a fact.
RAPS were abusive, made to shame young kids into thinking that they were complete failures and without AARC, they'd never get anywhere in life.
We were kept from medications if needed, visits to the doctor if needed, were impossible to get and education was a reward that had to be earned after they broke you down.
I can remember plenty of RAPS where Dr. Clause would yell and scream while spitting his gob into peoples face - I still have visions of his yelling red face and the infamous water bottle tossing - it was the most demeaning and abusive form of recovery I ever saw.
He had girls talking about their prostitution experiences in gory details in front of group without any consideration to their feelings - and I remember Jana just sitting in the corner almost laughing while we spilt our guts. It almost felt like they got gratification from watching people turn from normal kids into absolute wrecks at 16, 17, 18, etc...
Bottom line - it's "legal" child abuse.
Guest44431444
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"If there are so called graduates of AARC and people who never really struggled with addiction but were forced to attend the center, then those people should be able to conduct themselves in such a way that there can be some insightful posts so that both sides are presented.
Enjoy the day!
Guest44431444"
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27646&p=333154#p333154 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27646&p=333154#p333154)
On one side, we have the fact that AARC is a cult that falsely diagnoses people as addicts, illegally keeps them against their will, subjects them to a dangerous quack treatment regimen that serves to break them down, in order to produce conformity to the will of the cult leader, thus garnering the leader money and power.
There is nothing legal about it.
What's the other side?
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Supportive - absolutely not!
I think AARC needs to be shuttered and Vause thrown in jail for the bullshit that goes on behind closed doors.
With what I experienced and witnessed while I was at AARC is nothing short of abuse, that's a fact.
RAPS were abusive, made to shame young kids into thinking that they were complete failures and without AARC, they'd never get anywhere in life.
We were kept from medications if needed, visits to the doctor if needed, were impossible to get and education was a reward that had to be earned after they broke you down.
I can remember plenty of RAPS where Dr. Clause would yell and scream while spitting his gob into peoples face - I still have visions of his yelling red face and the infamous water bottle tossing - it was the most demeaning and abusive form of recovery I ever saw.
He had girls talking about their prostitution experiences in gory details in front of group without any consideration to their feelings - and I remember Jana just sitting in the corner almost laughing while we spilt our guts. It almost felt like they got gratification from watching people turn from normal kids into absolute wrecks at 16, 17, 18, etc...
Bottom line - it's "legal" child abuse.
Guest44431444
Then why make fun of the few people who had the courage to stand outside of AARC with signs in an attempt to stop kids from having to go through that? What they did took guts, even more so considering that there was a small number of them. I have to say, it is a little hard to tell which team you're playing for. If you really understand that what happens at AARC is "legal" child abuse, it's black or white. You either love it or you're repulsed by it. Anyone who says that the truth is in the grey area just doesn't get it.
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I guess you'd have to let someone from the other side chime in ajax13
Guest44431444
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AARC is a socio-religious group falsely diagnosing people as addicts, using behaviour modification to make them compliant, as a means to garner power and wealth for the leader of the group. What takes place in AARC is not "recovery", it is thought reform as a tool for producing more cult members, both among parents and clients.
It is not legal and since the clients aren't addicts, it isn't addiction treatment.
What is the other side? You claimed that there was another side, just as you inferred that AARC could help some people, just not Anthony.
You very clearly stated that there is another side, since you stated that people had a different opinion than you because you stayed clean.
So what is that other side?
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Who made fun of them - I said I was embarrassed for them and questioned why the didn't stand on the opposite side of the chain link fence instead of hanging by finger tips with signs in hand.
Why did they not protest on the main drag where they would have cause a lot more friction and got cult members to second guess their affiliation? To me - it was a waste of time to protest to traffic flying by at 80 - 100km/hr...
Which side am I on? I am on the truth side, the abuse needs to stop, no question there - but the BS that goes on here with regards to the way individuals treat, accuse and chastise former AARC members. Because I chose to stay clean after I left AARC instantly put me in peoples' radar as a "staff" member or "former staff" member or "AARColyte".
You want to protest - I'd gladly join, without question, but the coordinator of the protests and stopaarc.org is the crusader for legalized pot, to me, that's just hypocritical - lends absolutely no credibility - but that is ONLY MY opinion.
You want to talk - I'd gladly talk about my time in AARC, what I saw, what I was subjected too, why I left, etc.
Guest44431444
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ajax13 - I am sure there are AARC trolls here that will tell you how great it was.
As for you - I am done.
Perhaps if you had a reason to be here, I'd gladly let you bull-bait me, but you don't.
Enjoy the day.
Guest44431444
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Regardless of what you folks are fighting about, I am just very happy that AARC has been protested and will be protested in the future.
This is really great. I just like to basque in the thought that AARC is being confronted with protestors, which is ironic since kids in the program are forced to confront one another. Maybe Vausy can dish it out but can't take it. He seems like a bully and a coward since I haven't heard a peep from him defending his precious AARC but he has no trouble bullying kids he has complete control over.
As far as my request, sometimes media about these events gets taken down quickly or changed. I would like to collect and preserve this information before it disappears, if it hasn't already. Also, the links may not be up yet, which in that case we will just have to wait.
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Supportive - absolutely not!
I think AARC needs to be shuttered and Vause thrown in jail for the bullshit that goes on behind closed doors.
With what I experienced and witnessed while I was at AARC is nothing short of abuse, that's a fact.
RAPS were abusive, made to shame young kids into thinking that they were complete failures and without AARC, they'd never get anywhere in life.
We were kept from medications if needed, visits to the doctor if needed, were impossible to get and education was a reward that had to be earned after they broke you down.
I can remember plenty of RAPS where Dr. Clause would yell and scream while spitting his gob into peoples face - I still have visions of his yelling red face and the infamous water bottle tossing - it was the most demeaning and abusive form of recovery I ever saw.
He had girls talking about their prostitution experiences in gory details in front of group without any consideration to their feelings - and I remember Jana just sitting in the corner almost laughing while we spilt our guts. It almost felt like they got gratification from watching people turn from normal kids into absolute wrecks at 16, 17, 18, etc...
Bottom line - it's "legal" child abuse.
Guest44431444
Then why make fun of the few people who had the courage to stand outside of AARC with signs in an attempt to stop kids from having to go through that? What they did took guts, even more so considering that there was a small number of them. I have to say, it is a little hard to tell which team you're playing for. If you really understand that what happens at AARC is "legal" child abuse, it's black or white. You either love it or you're repulsed by it. Anyone who says that the truth is in the grey area just doesn't get it.
It’s not ‘black or white’ for many teens who survive abuse of this magnitude. You should know that.
If this guy is willing to submit testimony of abuse, I cannot imagine why you would denounce him as the "other" because of the possibility he has a different view point on some of his own experiences than you want him to. Simply from a practical standpoint, doing so only alienates an ally. From a moral standpoint, you simply have no right to treat someone like that. Disagree, sure. But calling him stupid and an “AARColyte” and "staff" is disgraceful.
He has the right to his own mind, and you don't have the right to abuse him over it. Abuse is black and white issue, but survivors should not be viewed in "black or white" terms, in which they must either effuse over the effectiveness of protests, denounce every part of their past, or be termed "aarcolytes."
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What former AARC members are being chastised besides you? Now back to your claim that there is another side to this story besides a fraudulent cult illegally detaining and psychologically battering young people in order to enrich the leader. You weren't on anybody's radar asshole, you claimed that people disagreed with you because you stayed clean. It's an old AARColyte saw. Aside from the fact that you may not be former staff, although I am not convinced of that, the only BS I've seen is your claim that AARC is legal, your statements that I was using fiction, your claim that one can't make accurate statements about AARC or Vause without having been in AARC, and your claim that you're looking for some kind of debate.
So fill us in on the "other side".
Now you've already demonstrated that you're pretty stupid, but let's look at your objections to the hipocrisy of the pro-pot people's involvement in the protest. These people are not protesting to encourage people to get off drugs. Since AARC is by and large keeping kids who are not addicts, that issue is a non-starter. Your analogy with heroin addicts telling people to get straight is so stupid and irrelevent as to defy description. The pro-pot people are protesting the fact that AARC illegally holds people against their will, is run by amateurs, falsely diagnoses people as addicts and uses amateurs to perform serious mental health interventions.
So what's that other side? Try and stick with the subject at hand.
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It’s not ‘black or white’ for many teens who survive abuse of this magnitude. You should know that.
If this guy is willing to submit testimony of abuse, I cannot imagine why you would denounce him as the "other" because of the possibility he has a different view point on some of his own experiences than you want him to. Simply from a practical standpoint, doing so only alienates an ally. From a moral standpoint, you simply have no right to treat someone like that. Disagree, sure. But calling him stupid and an “AARColyte” and "staff" is disgraceful.
He has the right to his own mind, and you don't have the right to abuse him over it. Abuse is black and white issue, but survivors should not be viewed in "black or white" terms, in which they must either effuse over the effectiveness of protests, denounce every part of their past, or be termed "aarcolytes."
Let me be clear asshole, I called him stupid because I think what he said was stupid. If you don't like it, too bad. Don't you have your hands full on the Aspen forum?
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Calling him an "AARColyte" and "staff" is disgraceful? :roflmao: I'm sure that, as a former client, he's been called worse things than "staff."
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That's what I mean ajax13 - I try to keep it clean and refrain from calling you names and turn around calling me an asshole.
FACT - You have never been to AARC / Straight / Kids and / or recovery. Why the hell are you here?
FACT - The protests are organized by Keith and Debbie Fagin - Pro Pot Crusaders?! WTF!
FACT - You have repeatedly asked to meet me face to face so I can tell you to "fuck yourself" - what is your intention with the meeting?
FACT - You have repeatedly PM'd me DESPITE me asking you not too - your insecure, face it, you always want the last word.
FACT - I was in AARC, you weren't, that makes me a little more factual than you right out of the chute.
Like I said ajax13 - I am done with you, you have no credibility with me, no matter how much you try to antagonize me. - stop PM'ing me!
Guest44431444
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I said you were stupid, and you were right there to prove me right. Like a good AARColyte, you're not accountable for what you say. You suggested taking this offline. I'm more than willing to, but as I said, that's between you and me and ought to be arranged privately. The protests aren't organized by the propot people, although they have obviously taken it upon themselves to assume a central role. You claimed it's hypocritical, which shows that either you don't understand the concept of hipocrisy, or you're too stunned to see that people who oppose the current laws concerning pot are quite likely to oppose a phony drug treatment centre whose principle stock and trade is kids who smoke pot. So are you too dumb to understand hipocrisy, or too dumb to understand the pro pot people?
You're now resorting to the AARColyte tactic of whining when you're cornered. I haven't PM'd you since you last complained about it in this forum, so your intent now is obviously to try to garner support from what you perceive as a group here. This isn't AARC, dummy.
And, like a good AARColyte, you're incoherently babbling. You haven't presented any facts or evidence that contradicts anything I've said, yet you're claiming to be more credible? This after your foolish claim that people here disagreed with you because you stayed clean?
Silly, silly AARcolyte.