Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 17, 2009, 03:35:24 PM
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This show is on right now, looks like some kind of rehab show or something. but what's really funny is it's sponsored by the "drug free america foundation" and during commercials they run the laughable anti marijuana commercials. its run by a guy named drew , the guy from that radio show from way back when. should we go protest it and try go get on camera?
not sure if they use AA yet.
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DFAF? You mean Straight Inc, right. Call a spade a spade. Should we protest? Absolutely! Is it still filming? Got a contact for VH1? Maybe we should call em up and give em some information about DFAF.
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Dr. Drew Pinsky is the owner and operator of Pasadena Recovery Center. Pasadena of Rose Parade fame! Yes, they follow the AA model of indoctrination at his center. Yes, there are actively filming with scenes from a Venice "outing" just last week. He is a proponent of "disease concept" that Psy so detests. They are pretty mum on the shooting schedule so a protest would be hard to organize for the filming part, but his center in Pasadena is still fair game. I did hear that security there has been increased 10 fold since the first season of "celebrity rehab"
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Well, according to Peele, our lord and savior... blah, blah, blah.
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Instead of "Sober house" they should be in Peele's Residential Program:
THE LIFE PROCESS PROGRAM ©!
http://www.stgregoryctr.com/ (http://www.stgregoryctr.com/)
"Residential care is an important part of recovery" Is "it right for you or your loved ones"?
Prepare to be indoctrinated that you have a "dependancy" and a "disregard for consequences" and that you are unable to "recognize negetive consequences." You will be taught "life skills" and "behavior modification"
Use Stanton's 7 tools.
Values
Motivation
Rewards
Resources
Support
Maturity
Cause, Drugies don't have values.
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They are pretty mum on the shooting schedule so a protest would be hard to organize for the filming part, but his center in Pasadena is still fair game. I did hear that security there has been increased 10 fold since the first season of "celebrity rehab"
What exactly will you protesting, Pam?
That d-list celebtrities and people who want to be on T.V. sign up for a reality show?
Or that a doctor favors a scientific model of addiction that Psy doesn't like, however incoveniently supported by pathologists' research on the brain.
Anyone else feel people are kinda going off on a tangent, here, inspired by some good-ole-emotional bond derived indocrtination, themslves?
If you wanted to protest the DEAF people, wouldn't a good idea be to go outside of MTV's televised space in TImes Square?
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If you wanted to protest the DEAF people, wouldn't a good idea be to go outside of MTV's televised space in TImes Square?
It's DFAF. (Drug Free America Foundation). Which is the name Straight Inc. switched to. There is good reason to protest them. Among other things, they endorse programs such as Teen Challenge.
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Instead of "Sober house" they should be in Peele's Residential Program:
THE LIFE PROCESS PROGRAM ©!
http://www.stgregoryctr.com/ (http://www.stgregoryctr.com/)
"Residential care is an important part of recovery" Is "it right for you or your loved ones"?
Prepare to be indoctrinated that you have a "dependancy" and a "disregard for consequences" and that you are unable to "recognize negetive consequences." You will be taught "life skills" and "behavior modification"
Use Stanton's 7 tools.
Values
Motivation
Rewards
Resources
Support
Maturity
Cause, Drugies don't have values.
If you're trying to imply I've endorsed Peele's treatment center for adults, you're way off the mark. I don't endorse ANY treament center for adults or kids (not even Wellspring cult recovery center). I consider it a conflict of interest. Maybe Peele feels differently because his approach is "harm reduction", but then again, I doubt he's familiar with the story of Sue Scheff. The only thing I do is muckrake and encourage people to do research. I also could care less what Peele's views are on treatment that works (though he is also against forced treatment, even for kids). I'm only interested in his research into what doesn't work (12 step treament or any sort of forced treatment), which is hardly unique. I have cited other sources but the resident steppers seem to have problems with ANYBODY I cite, attacking them rather than their sound arguments or research. This is known as ad hominem (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem).
An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.
Just because I cite somebody's work hardly means I agree with him on all subjects. I've cited Vaillant's research too (among others), and I hardly agree with him on much of anything at all. If you want to discuss alcoholism and aa's disease concept, discuss it here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26586&start=90 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26586&start=90)
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They are pretty mum on the shooting schedule so a protest would be hard to organize for the filming part, but his center in Pasadena is still fair game. I did hear that security there has been increased 10 fold since the first season of "celebrity rehab"
What exactly will you protesting, Pam?
That d-list celebtrities and people who want to be on T.V. sign up for a reality show?
Or that a doctor favors a scientific model of addiction that Psy doesn't like, however incoveniently supported by pathologists' research on the brain.
Anyone else feel people are kinda going off on a tangent, here, inspired by some good-ole-emotional bond derived indocrtination, themslves?
If you wanted to protest the DEAF people, wouldn't a good idea be to go outside of MTV's televised space in TImes Square?
I was not suggesting anyone should protest. I was answering a question someone else raised. I have nothing to protest about at his center...I agree with you. They are there voluntarily. I oppose "forced treatment" ON adolescents.
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I oppose "forced treatment" and adolescents.
:roflmao:
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I oppose "forced treatment" and adolescents.
:roflmao:
I have CORRECTED my post..thank you
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I oppose "forced treatment" and adolescents.
:roflmao:
Hmmm...now that I think about it, I DO oppose SOME adolescents it depends on the person.
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If you guys are thinking about protesting a voluntary adult rehab, you need to start taking some medication or something because you are crazy. :clown: When has a program protest actually accomplished anything, other than give fornits bragging rights to the protestees? :soapbox: :twofinger: :roflmao:
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I agree if we are going to spend the time money and effort it takes to protest we need to protest the programs themselves not some ties of endorsement of a TV show.
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If you guys are thinking about protesting a voluntary adult rehab, you need to start taking some medication or something because you are crazy. :clown: When has a program protest actually accomplished anything, other than give fornits bragging rights to the protestees? :soapbox: :twofinger: :roflmao:
Well. It wouldn't be protesting the rehab at all. It would be protesting the show's sponsor (DFAF). If there was a protest, I imagine the signs would be quite clear to that effect (such as "DFAF = Straight Inc."... "Straight Inc. abused children") and so on and so forth. Maybe it wouldn't be the best place to do it, but if it caused the DFAF trouble, it might be worth it. If the show's producers or the participants themselves knew who was sponsoring the show (and what that entailed), maybe they would reconsider. Although that's unlikely, it's possible it might cost the DFAF some time, and thus, some money.
It is, however, probably more productive to protest programs directly, though.
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Instead of "Sober house" they should be in Peele's Residential Program:
THE LIFE PROCESS PROGRAM ©!
http://www.stgregoryctr.com/ (http://www.stgregoryctr.com/)
"Residential care is an important part of recovery" Is "it right for you or your loved ones"?
Prepare to be indoctrinated that you have a "dependancy" and a "disregard for consequences" and that you are unable to "recognize negetive consequences." You will be taught "life skills" and "behavior modification"
Use Stanton's 7 tools.
Values
Motivation
Rewards
Resources
Support
Maturity
Cause, Drugies don't have values.
If you're trying to imply I've endorsed Peele's treatment center for adults, you're way off the mark. I don't endorse ANY treament center for adults or kids (not even Wellspring cult recovery center). I consider it a conflict of interest. Maybe Peele feels differently because his approach is "harm reduction", but then again, I doubt he's familiar with the story of Sue Scheff. I have cited other sources but the resident steppers seem to have problems with ANYBODY I cite, attacking them rather than their sound arguments or research. This is known as ad hominem (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem).
An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.
I don’t see any “implications” and if there were that would constitute “accusation” not ad hominem.
Meanwhile, you call me, one person who find a lot of your “sources’” opinions meaningless, a “resident stepper.”
That would constitute as a “personal attack,” made weirder because you are insulting me on an off-subject thread, that I just happened to read while going through the forum.
Don't condescendingly, insultingly stereotype people who point out the words you post are absurd or inaccurate. If you don’t like disagreement, don’t post stuff that is obviously inflammatory. If you are going to call an organization cult-like that isn’t, in a forum for survivors of cultic abuse, thereby making light of that predicament, you’re going to get the some annoyed responses.
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If you are going to call an organization cult-like that isn’t,
That would be a matter of opinion now, wouldn't it?
in a forum for survivors of cultic abuse, thereby making light of that predicament, you’re going to get the some annoyed responses.
And he's also going to get some that say he's right on the money. I'm not telling anyone NOT to go to AA. I AM telling them that the Big Book, 12 & 12, sponsors and the rest of it are a bunch of crap and are VERY cult-like and to be informed if they're going to subject themselves to groupthink yet again as it could be dangerous to their psyche.
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No, not everything is just an “opinion.”
There is factual and untrue.
But, either way, people who happen to take the scientifically valid viewpoint and voice it, shouldn’t be denigrated as “resident steppers.” It’s gross.
You keep using terms like “group think.” I’m not going to argue about whether there is “group think” in A.A., but you are aware that “group-think” does not a cult-like make, right? Any social gathering has “group-think” within. There’s a lot of group-think here, right now, also.
i also find the endless postings about A.A. kinda obsessive and off topic. What was your program and what was your expereince with A.A.? I mean, as far as anything anyone says here is true.
If it wasn't for the fact that psy was using his avatar, i'd write off the aa is a cult! posts as trolls trying to make people on this site look uneducated and unreliable ..
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No, not everything is just an “opinion.”Not to take either side of this debate, but you are correct about differentiating between opinions and facts. People like to relegate facts to the "that's your opinion" department, which irritates me as a rational individual. It offends me; they are incorrect when they do this.
My 8th grade English teacher told the class if we used the words "I think" or "in my opinion" in a book report, it would mean an immediate F! No opinions, just what was the damn book about!! 'Don't mince words' was the idea he was purporting there. No beating around the bush; call a spade a spade. I think he had it right. I'm surrounded by morons and their "opinions."
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From a legal standpoint, an opinion is anything that can neither be proven objectively true (in which case it's a fact) nor false. In that sense, the term "cult-like" (as it depends on people's definitions and opinions on what is a cult, which differs) is opinion.
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Any group of people who worshipped outside of the orthodox religion would be considered a sect or cult in non English speaking countries. A Cult or sect isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It has taken on many meanings over the years from good to bad. Basically if you are outside of the “mainstream thinking” then you belong to a group that can be called a cult. You may not even know the other members. For example if you like to go to see “Rocky horror picture show” then you belong to its “Cult” following. Pyramid schemes which you may have seen via email is the building of a cult. Doesn’t mean you are evil, or think differently than others? No, not really. Fornits isn’t main stream so fornitcators would fall under the category or definition of a “Cult”. Many here think the same in regards to programs
The reason everyone sees it as bad is because we have witnessed the evils of cults splashed all over the television over the past decades, with mind control groups and mass suicide and the name “cult” took on a different meaning over time.
If you developed a “charter school” and invited 10 families to live together and educate your children together you would be a classic cult as defined today. Ten years from now this may be normal or mainstream.
So the word “Cult” has a broad width of meanings and can be stretched to describe almost any group of people. If you desire you could label almost any group as a cult.
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Religions are cults too, just widely accepted tax evading cults.
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I like Blue Öyster Cult.
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No, not everything is just an “opinion.”
There is factual and untrue.
Yes, but in this case its an opinion.
But, either way, people who happen to take the scientifically valid viewpoint and voice it, shouldn’t be denigrated as “resident steppers.” It’s gross.
Its gross? You sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "its not cult-like, its not cult-like" does not a scientifically valid viewpoint make. You're of the opinion AA is not cult-like, some of hold the opposite opinion of AA. Its really quite simple. Why do you people get so angry about any criticism? I asked before, but never did get an answer.
You keep using terms like “group think.” I’m not going to argue about whether there is “group think” in A.A., but you are aware that “group-think” does not a cult-like make, right? Any social gathering has “group-think” within. There’s a lot of group-think here, right now, also.
It's not just the groupthink. It's the confessionals, the black & white thinking, the rejection of critical thinking, the learned powerlessness. It's a collection of a lot of qualities that a few of us have explained to you a number of times. You just don't see it the way we do and that's fine. Why do you have such a problem with it?
i also find the endless postings about A.A. kinda obsessive and off topic.
Then skip them.
What was your program and what was your expereince with A.A.? I mean, as far as anything anyone says here is true.
You find the postings obsessive and off topic, but now you want to continue it? And what difference does it make?
If it wasn't for the fact that psy was using his avatar, i'd write off the aa is a cult! posts as trolls trying to make people on this site look uneducated and unreliable ..
I really don't think you get how much a lot of what you say smacks of program methods of dealing with dissenters. Insinuating that because I hold a different POV than you makes me appear somehow less educated than yourself is a typical program tactic. I guess you've just been living it for so long that you don't even see it.
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I like Blue Öyster Cult.
:roflmao: :rocker:
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This show is on right now, looks like some kind of rehab show or something. but what's really funny is it's sponsored by the "drug free america foundation" and during commercials they run the laughable anti marijuana commercials. its run by a guy named drew , the guy from that radio show from way back when. should we go protest it and try go get on camera?
not sure if they use AA yet.
You sure? All I could find was a reference to the "partnership for a drug free america", which isn't the Sembler/Straight one.