Fornits
General Interest => Tacitus' Realm => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 05, 2009, 09:46:48 PM
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Looks like the Israelis are doing what they do best...... war. ::puke::
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And just like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I predict this thread will never end. Let the fireworks begin!
:jerry:
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You don't mess with the Zohan.
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To put this in perspective, If Mexico launched two Qassam missiles at California, New Mexico, Arizona, or Texas, what do you think the U.S. would do? Would they sit idly by and wait for the 3rd to fall or would they retaliate? Be honest and real when you answer this.
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Millions of illegal mexicans stream across the border and nothing is done. Kidnappers regularly come into the US and take their hostages back into mexico for ransom or worse. The corrupt mexican army shoots at border patrol. You know how many illegals commit murder in the US? a hell of a lot more than die of rocket fire in israel. so your comparison doesn't work. more americans die from mexicans than israelis die from arabs and we haven't started the invasion yet. but any day now right... im sure the marines are stocking up the cluster bombs to go take out some mexican schools...
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Please limit your comparison to missiles that contain shrapnel and do permanent bodily injury. Qassam missiles are really not homemade per se. They come from other countries through a tunnel system. I would post links, but I know I will be shot down. So it is rather useless. Blame the genocide on the neighboring Arab countries that don't allow Palestinians in either. Hmmm, did that get your attention? Yes, they don't let them in. They all want Israel off the map. This is their way of accomplishing that. Pen up a bunch of Palestinians and call it genocide. No that does not work for me, I lost too many family members in the Holocausts concentration camps. Israelis no more like what is going on than anyone else, but they were fired on first. Go live in Sderot (http://http://www.sderotmedia.com/bin/content.cgi?ID=258&q=3), and then talk to me.
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Please limit your comparison to missiles that contain shrapnel and do permanent bodily injury. Qassam missiles are really not homemade per se. They come from other countries through a tunnel system. I would post links, but I know I will be shot down. So it is rather useless. Blame the genocide on the neighboring Arab countries that don't allow Palestinians in either. Hmmm, did that get your attention? Yes, they don't let them in. They all want Israel off the map. This is their way of accomplishing that. Pen up a bunch of Palestinians and call it genocide. No that does not work for me, I lost too many family members in the Holocausts concentration camps. Israelis no more like what is going on than anyone else, but they were fired on first. Go live in Sderot (http://http://www.sderotmedia.com/bin/content.cgi?ID=258&q=3), and then talk to me.
Yes. It is ironic. All the other countries in the region calls attention to the plight of the palistinians but none of them will lift a finger to actually help them other than to use them as proxies in aggression against Israel. Sure they'll supply them with munitions and ways to blow themselves up, but let the refugees into their countries? PFFT! Just like the jews, nobody wants the Palestinians around.
As far as who fired first... Can anybody really tell that at this point, and does it matter? Cluster bomb or Qassam, helicopter gunship or suicide bomber... the result is the same and innocent people die every day on BOTH sides. The two sides are meant for each other and are equally responsible in my mind.
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I hope they bomb one another back into the stone age,Isrealis? Palestinians? Fuck em all. :twofinger:
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King of Babylon, remember, you will be next. That is what happened in Germany in Poland. Everyone became casualty. Read your history or you are condemned to repeat it.
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Psy it is not the two sides it is the whole Middle East then in your thinking, not in mine. The Jews got off the boat and immediately had to fight again in 1948. Do you think that is how they wanted it? I doubt it. They had already been in concentration camps and rejected by the US and many other countries while Nazis got into those countries.
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All war-related stuff aside, I have to say that both Israeli ~and Palestinian women are hot!!!! Israeli women are slightly hotter, maybe! Just a personal thing. I knew an Israeli girl, a friend of my ex-girlfriend. She was pretty hot, but i haven't gotten to know any Palestinian women like that, and have had less opportunity to speak with them in general..
Ok, feel free to continue debating war vs. not war, who is guilty, and who is the real terrorist....
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GAZA CITY, Gaza – Israeli mortar shells exploded Tuesday near a U.N. school in Gaza that was sheltering hundreds of people displaced by Israel's onslaught against Hamas militants, killing at least 30 Palestinians, tearing bodies apart and staining streets with blood.
Israel's military said its shelling — the deadliest single episode since Israeli ground forces invaded Gaza Saturday — was a response to mortar fire from within the school and said Hamas militants were using civilians as cover.
Two residents of the area who spoke by telephone said they saw a small group of militants firing mortar rounds from a street near the school, where 350 people had gathered to get away from the shelling. They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal.
Majed Hamdan, an AP photographer, rushed to the scene shortly after the attacks. At the hospital, he said, many children were among the dead.
"I saw women and men — parents — slapping their faces in grief, screaming, some of them collapsed to the floor. They knew their children were dead," he said. "In the morgue, most of the killed appeared to be children. In the hospital, there wasn't enough space for the wounded."
He said there appeared to be marks on the pavement of five separate explosions in area of the school.
An Israeli defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to make the information public, said it appeared that the military used 120mm shells, among the largest mortar rounds.
U.N. officials demanded an investigation of the shelling. The carnage, which included 55 wounded, added to a surging civilian toll and drew mounting international pressure for Israel to end the offensive against Hamas.
President-elect Barack Obama broke his silence on the crisis Tuesday saying, "the loss of civilian life in Gaza and in Israel is a source of deep concern for me." He declined to go further reiterating his stance that the U.S. has only one president at a time.
At the U.N. in New York, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called the Israeli bombardment of the group's facilities in Gaza "totally unacceptable." Israel's shells have fallen around three schools, including the girls school hit Tuesday, and a health center for Palestinian refugees.
Some 15,000 Palestinians have packed the U.N.'s 23 Gaza schools because their homes were destroyed or to flee the violence. The U.N. provided the Israeli military with GPS coordinates for all of them.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice met Tuesday with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to lobby for a U.S.-backed cease-fire plan for Gaza. Arab nations were floating a revised U.N. resolution calling for an immediate end to all military action, and deployment of an international observer force to monitor a cease-fire and protect Palestinian civilians in Gaza.
In the wake of the criticism, Israel agreed to set up a "humanitarian corridor" to ship vital supplies to the Gaza Strip, an idea that had been floated by the U.N. Security Council. Under the plan, Israel will suspend attacks in certain areas to allow people to get supplies.
The three mortar shells that crashed down on the perimeter of the U.N. school struck at mid-afternoon, when many people in the densely populated camp were outside getting some fresh air, thinking an area around a school was safe.
Images recorded by a cameraman from AP Television News showed crowds fleeing the scene, pavements smeared with blood and battered bodies of the dead being carried off by medics and horrified bystanders. A youth who limped away from the scene was helped along by several others. Sandals were scattered on the pavement by a pock-marked wall.
World powers that tried but failed to get a truce in place before Israel sent in its ground forces warned of the potential for higher civilian casualties if the fighting moved onto Gaza's streets, and Gaza's main hospital has been overwhelmed with wounded innocents. Mortar fire, in particular, is far less accurate than the laser-guided bombs Israel has used throughout the campaign.
The U.N. agency that runs the school along with other programs for Palestinian refugees said two other U.N. schools in Gaza were struck by Israeli fire since Monday night. In the first incident, an airstrike on the Asma Elementary School in Gaza City killed three men who were among more than 400 people taking refuge in the building. In the other, an artillery shell landed inside an empty boys school in Jebaliya.
"There's nowhere safe in Gaza. Everyone here is terrorized and traumatized," said John Ging, head of Gaza operations for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency.
The episode is certain to add to the urgency of truce efforts by leaders from Europe and the Middle East.
"I sincerely hope that for the sake of those who have died that it will not have been in vain, that it will spur everybody into more immediate action to get this cease-fire agreed and just stop horrific violence," Ging said.
An Israeli military statement said it received intelligence that the dead at the girls school included Hamas operatives, among them members of a rocket launching cell. It identified two of them as Imad Abu Askar and Hassan Abu Askar.
Two residents who spoke to an AP reporter by phone said the two brothers were known to be low-level Hamas militants. They said a group of militants — one of them said four — were firing mortar shells from near the school.
An Israeli shell targeted the men, but missed and they fled, the witnesses said, refusing to allow their names to be published because they feared for their safety. Then another three shells landed nearby, exploding among civilians, they said.
Palestinian militants have frequently fired from residential areas in the past.
Ging said the U.N. agency's staff work to prevent militants from entering the schools it has opened to shelter those at risk.
"Unfortunately tonight's incident is just another example of how Hamas operates," said Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev. "This is not the first time they have exploited a U.N. facility. This is not the first time that they have deliberately used innocent civilians as human shields."
A total of 71 Palestinians were killed Tuesday — with just two confirmed as militants, health officials in Gaza said.
Dr. Bassam Abu Warda, director of Kamal Adwan Hospital, said 36 people were killed, while the United Nations confirmed 30 deaths.
Israeli TV news broadcasts gave most of their attention to continued rocket fire on southern Israel. One of the two dozen rockets fired from Gaza on Tuesday wounded an Israeli infant.
There seemed to be little preoccupation in Israel with the deadly scene at the school.
In the past, however, Israeli ground offensives have been cut short when an errant shell or missile hit a civilian center, killing and wounding women and children, leading to an international outcry that forced Israel to stand down.
In 1996, an invasion of southern Lebanon to quell militant rocket fire at northern Israel was aborted after an artillery shell hit a camp of villagers next to a U.N. post, killing about 100 people.
In November 2006, Israeli forces withdrew from northern Gaza after a shell hit a house, killing 18 members of a family, including eight children, setting off a world outcry. Rocket fire at Israel resumed immediately.
Seven Israeli soldiers have been killed since the ground operation began, including four killed Monday in a two separate friendly fire incidents. Higher tolls among soldiers could also sap support for the offensive.
Despite international criticism over civilian deaths and calls for a cease-fire, Israeli tanks rumbled closer to the towns of Khan Younis and Dir el Balah in south and central Gaza but were still several miles outside, witnesses said. Israel already has encircled Gaza City, the area's biggest city.
Venezuela's government expelled the Israeli ambassador and embassy personnel because of the assault as a high-level European Union delegation met with President Shimon Peres Tuesday in a futile bid to end the violence. Commissioner Benita Ferraro-Waldner acknowledged Israel's right to self-defense, but said its response was disproportionate.
"We have come to Israel in order to advance the initiative for a humanitarian cease-fire and I will tell you, Mr. President, that you have a serious problem with international advocacy, and that Israel's image is being destroyed," she said, according to a statement from Peres' office.
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Barzak reported from Gaza City, Keyser from Jerusalem.
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JPost.com » Special Reports » Confronting Hamas » Article
Jan 6, 2009 10:29 | Updated Jan 7, 2009 0:45
30 killed in blast at UN school in Gaza
By YAAKOV KATZ
At least 30 Palestinians were killed and over 50 wounded in an IDF attack on a Hamas rocket squad based in a UN school in Jabalya on Tuesday, military sources said.
Dr. Bassam Abu Warda, director of Kamal Radwan Hospital, said 34 people were killed by an Israeli strike outside the school. The UN confirmed that 30 were killed and 55 were wounded by tank shells.
The school grounds were being used by terrorists to fire mortar shells at troops stationed nearby, and the soldiers responded by firing mortars back, the army said. According to the IDF, the dead included members of the Hamas rocket cell, including senior operatives Imad Abu Askhar and Hassan Abu Askhar.
Defense officials told The Associated Press that booby-trapped bombs in the school had triggered secondary explosions that killed additional Palestinians there.
The army noted that Tuesday was not the first time Hamas had attacked Israel from within a school. The IDF released a video taken by an unmanned aerial vehicle in late 2007 showing terrorists firing mortars from right outside a school.
"Hamas has in the past fired at Israel and at troops from inside schools, [exploiting] civilians, as is proven by UAV footage," the army said.
The UN said hundreds of people from a Gaza City refugee camp had gone to seek shelter in the school from the IDF's offensive.
"There's nowhere safe in Gaza. Everyone here is terrorized and traumatized," said John Ging, an Irishman who is the top UN official in Gaza.
"I am appealing to political leaders here, in Israel, and in the region and the world to get their act together and stop this," Ging said, speaking at the Strip's largest hospital. "They are responsible for these deaths."
Maxwell Gaylard, the UN humanitarian coordinator for the Palestinian territories, demanded an investigation.
"As one of the most densely populated places in the world, it is clear that more civilians will be killed," Gaylard said.
"These tragic incidents need to be investigated, and if international humanitarian law has been contravened, those responsible must held accountable."
Earlier Tuesday, seven Palestinians were killed in several separate incidents. One young man was killed in an attack on a Hamas charity building, a 15-year-old was killed in an air force attack in the center of Gaza City and five people were killed when their house in the eastern part of Gaza City was shelled.
Palestinians also said nine members of the same family were killed in the Zeitun neighborhood of Gaza City, six of them children. Three other people were reportedly killed in the strike.
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Israel at War: A Primer
Background & key issues behind Israel's campaign against Hamas in Gaza.
Israel has launched a major military operation against Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip. Over the coming days and beyond, Israel will come under intense pressure both in the mainstream media and in online forums and the blogosphere. HonestReporting.com presents a guide to the important talking points to enable you to answer the questions and issues that will appear.
Defending Israeli citizens from terrorist fire
A quarter of a million Israeli citizens have been living under incessant terror attacks from the Gaza Strip with thousands of missiles fired over the past eight years.
These missiles have been described as "home made" by the media. They are, in fact, deadly. Hamas has in its possession longer range Katyushas and Grad-type missiles which can cause devastation such as that on Monday 29 December as one Israeli was killed and 14 injured in a Grad attack on Ashkelon.
Israel left Gaza in 2005, giving Palestinians the chance to run their own lives. Despite this, more than 6300 rockets and mortars have been fired into Israel since then.
During the past year alone, more than 3000 rockets and mortars have been launched into Israel.
Since the end of a formal ceasefire (during which terror attacks continued) with Hamas came to an end on Dec. 19, more than 170 rockets and mortars have been fired at Israeli civilians including a barrage of some 80 missiles on Dec. 24 alone.
As US President-elect Obama stated during a visit to Sderot five months ago, "If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I would do everything to stop that, and would expect Israel to do the same thing."
No other country in the world would have exercised the amount of restraint that Israel has shown for the past several years without responding.
Hamas bears responsibility
The deterioration in the situation is the direct result of Hamas policy. It violated the calm, is firing against and attacking Israeli citizens, and is investing all its resources in arming itself and gathering power.
If Hamas would renounce the path of terror, there would be no need for the Israeli action. Quiet will be answered with quiet, but terror will elicit a response.
"We strongly condemn the repeated rocket and mortar attacks against Israel and hold Hamas responsible for breaking the ceasefire and for the renewal of violence there." - US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice
"We talked to them [Hamas] and we told them 'please, we ask you, do not end the truce. Let the truce continue and not stop' so that we could have avoided what happened." - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas
"For quite some time, Egypt has been warning. Whoever tried to confuse the understand of [ignore] this warning, must bear the responsibility. The Prime Minister of Israel warned the Hamas and said: "You must stop, otherwise we will take measures in response." In response to what? To not renewing the calm, to the rocket fire. Just before the arrival of [Israeli Foreign Minister] Livni to Egypt, 60 rockets were fired from Gaza!" - Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit
Israel targets Hamas and the terrorist infrastructure
The goal of the Israeli military action is to strike the growing infrastructure of terror and ability of Hamas and its allied organizations to launch missiles and mortars at Israeli citizens and carry out terror attacks.
Hamas has used the ceasefire to massively arm itself with increasingly sophisticated weapons to expand the range of the threat against Israeli civilians.
Hamas has demonstrated its increased threat as the Ashdod area was hit by rockets, marking the northernmost point where Hamas rockets have reached, more than 40km north of Gaza.
Israel does not target Palestinian civilians
The terrorist organizations work out of the Palestinian population centers and cynically exploit them, so the responsibility for Palestinian civilians getting hurt rests on their shoulders. Israel, for its part directs its activity at terrorist elements and does its utmost to refrain from harming the innocent.
Those homes and buildings which are used for storing weapons caches and manufacturing weaponry are legitimate military targets.
The high casualty figures being fed to the media from (unreliable) Palestinian medical sources do not differentiate between terrorists and civilians. The vast majority of those killed in IDF actions have been terrorists. Hamas terrorists do not always wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from the general population.
As The Times of London reports: "Radio stations ordered all members of the security forces, who have borne the brunt of the attack, to slip into civilian clothes, stay away from their bases and avoid congregating in groups to escape death from above."
At the time of writing, even the United Nations is citing some 50 civilian deaths out of more than 300 Palestinian casualties.
Hamas TV has acknowledged this morning that the vast majority of those killed are from the Hamas military. A news ticker running repeatedly from 10:00 AM announced:
"More than 180 Palestinian policemen were killed including the [Police] Commander, General Tawfik Jaber."
In the background Hamas TV is repeatedly broadcasting the same scenes of dozens of bodies of the uniformed Hamas soldiers who were killed in Israel's first attack Saturday when Israel hit a Hamas officer's course graduation ceremony. (Source: Palestinian Media Watch)
In stark contrast to Israel, Hamas actively celebrates targeting Israeli civilians. A video on Hamas TV Sunday morning blended pictures of Hamas fighters shooting at Israel with pictures of injured Israelis and medical evacuation scenes. In addition, the visuals include pictures of skulls dripping with blood, captioned: "Let them taste violent death". Other narrations and texts include:
"Send them to Hell! Tear them to pieces!"
"Send them to Hell, Qassam missile!" (Source: Palestinian Media Watch)
Israel has collected intelligence on specific targets for the past year and has not indiscriminately attacked the Gaza Strip. For example, during the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip in 2007, Hamas took control over many facilities in Gaza, including this building and the "Palestinian Prisoner Tower" located in southern Gaza City. The facility was being used as a central operational facility for Hamas security operations and as a weapons arsenal. Hamas offices were also located inside this building and and additionally, large amounts of weapons are also stored inside. The building was used only by Hamas and was not a residential building by any means.
Preventing a humanitarian crisis
Israel has continued to allow humanitarian aid to pass through Gaza's border crossings despite Hamas's rocket and mortar attacks, including upon the crossings themselves.
23 trucks bearing medical supplies, basic food commodities and other humanitarian goods passed through the Kerem Shalom crossing into Gaza beginning at 10.30am on Sunday morning (28 Dec).
"As the prime minister said yesterday, we are not at war with the Palestinian people, but with the Hamas terrorists, and therefore we are bringing in the goods for the Palestinian people," said IDF Major Peter Lerner, Defense Ministry Coordinator for Government Activities in the Territories.
Three humanitarian aid agencies are sending goods into the Gaza Strip: UNWRA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency), WFA (World Food Agency) and the ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross). All three agencies were notified Saturday evening that they would be allowed to send as many truckloads of supplies into the region as they could muster. "We didn't place any limit on the number of trucks," Lerner said. "There are only 30 truckloads because that was what they were able to get ready for today."
Israel also plans to allow some Palestinians wounded in Saturday's offensive on Hamas to enter Israel to receive medical treatment. Meanwhile, Hamas is preventing wounded Palestinians from crossing into Egypt to receive treatment.
Further sources
International Law & the Fighting in Gaza, Justus Reid Wiener & Avi Bell, JCPA, Justus Reid Wiener & Avi Bell, JCPA
Did Israel Use "Disproportionate Force" in Gaza?, Dore Gold, JCPA
What can you do?
Please use the above to counter some of the misreporting and disinformation that is already appearing in both the mainstream media and online.
Download our free Internet Activism Guide to help you respond to media bias online. As the Internet grows as a battleground for Israel’s legitimacy, we bring you the tools you need to join the fight. Our 24-page booklet covers the fundamental principles of online activism.
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lol @ israeli propoganda :rofl:
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So jews were repatriated into Palestine,ok then instead of trying to have some sort of inclusion of their cousins,(Read the Bible) the two big genius groups just keep on fucking with each other.And the poor victimized Isreali people,start the Warsaw Ghetto V2.0,also known as the gaza strip.Talk about history repeating itself.Hmmmm lets wall up the arabs,yeah thats the ticket! then the palestinians start fucking with the jews,and so on and so forth.......and somebody wants me to feel sorry for either one? Seems like the promised land is pretty full of shit to me.Headed right straight to oblivion and they will have done it to themselves,both sides equally guilty............
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The whole idea of having a state for one religion boggles the mind. Having grown up in American culture with our ideas of equality and freedom, their system of governance and zionist philosophy strikes me as regression. It's like they are acting out manifest destiny, and putting the Indian's on the reservation all over again. There is one obvious solution to the problem. That is to make "Palestine" a secular, inclusive state and adopt freedom of religion and take on America's model of statehood. But that won't happen. The jews want the country all to themselves. They print articles in their papers about the "demographic problem", meaning the arabs are breeding faster than they are and they are worried. They don't want to become a minority, because they are afraid the arabs will kill them all. But look at the blacks in the US, they are a minority, always will be, but they aren't afraid of a genocide against them by white people. As it is, the arabs and jews will continue to kill each other. They claim God is on their side, but it's pretty obvious God has abandoned them. What a horrible mistake Israel was. Way to make the world hate you all over again, Jews, you seem to be quite good at that.
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It is not just religion or race but a fundamental difference in philosophies also. Some people just cant accept each others life style or ideals with very little common ground. No matter how many peace treaties are drawn up and agreed to you couldn’t have a fornits regular and an edcon sharing an apartment in peace. After living together for a short time they would be back at it again. I really dont see a long term solution for our lifetime.
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Israeli forces shell UN office in Gaza (http://http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090115/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians)
By IBRAHIM BARZAK and CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writers – 56 mins ago
(http://http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20090115/capt.12586cb9beeb41ab83cf6e41acda7aca.mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl318.jpg)
A Palestinian firefighter talks on a radio as they try to put out a fire at the United Nations headquarters after it was hit in Israeli bombardment in Gaza City, Thursday, Jan. 15, 2009. Israeli forces shelled the United Nations headquarters in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, setting the compound on fire as U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon was in the area on a mission to end Israel's devastating offensive against the territory's Hamas rulers. Ban expressed 'outrage' over the incident.
(AP Photo/Ashraf Amra)
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli artillery shells struck the U.N. headquarters in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, setting a food warehouse ablaze and drawing a sharp rebuke from the visiting U.N. chief who called it an "outrage." Another Israeli bombardment killed Hamas' head of security.
The attack added to a day of deadly chaos pitting Israeli troops against Islamic militants. Terrified residents huddled in shelters and stairwells, or scooped up toddlers and fled on foot.
After nightfall, shells landed near Gaza City's Quds Hospital, where many families had sought refuge, and the building caught fire, forcing staff to evacuate hundreds of people. According to a hospital medic, some patients were pushed down the street on gurneys; a few held white flags.
The destruction added to what aid groups say is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza and ratcheted up tensions between Israel and the international community even as diplomats indicated progress in cease-fire talks.
Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni was departing Thursday night for Washington to discuss a Gaza cease-fire with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. The United States and Egypt have been working to forge an agreement to end 20 days of bitter fighting.
The U.N. compound, made up of workshops and warehouses as well as offices, was struck about a half-dozen times over a roughly two-hour period while more than 700 civilians were sheltering there, said John Ging, head of Gaza operations for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency.
The civilians were huddling in the compound's vocational training center when it was struck by a tank round or an artillery shell, causing the three injuries, Ging said. Throughout this time, he said, U.N. officials were frantically contacting Israeli officials to urge an end to the firing on the U.N. compound.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Hamas militants opened fire from the U.N. compound. "It is absolutely true that we were attacked from that place, but the consequences are very sad and we apologize for it," he said. The military said it was still investigating.
The attack triggered a raging fire that engulfed a warehouse and destroyed thousands of pounds of food and other aid intended for Gaza's beleaguered citizens. Workers with fire extinguishers and Palestinian firefighters, some wearing bulletproof jackets, struggled to douse flames and tugged bags of flour from the debris.
Fuel supplies and cars in a garage also went up in flames.
Ging said the contacts with Israeli officials were made under a new liaison system aimed at preventing any attack similar to the shelling at a U.N. school in northern Gaza earlier this month that killed about 40 people. At the time, Israel said militants had fired on army positions from the area.
An Israeli airstrike killed Interior Minister Said Siam, a key figure in Hamas who oversaw thousands of security agents, Hamas TV said. A top aide, Siam's brother and his brother's family also were killed.
"We are talking about a key person in terms of logistics in the field, and also in the political sense," said Bassem Zbeidy, a Hamas expert in the West Bank.
He said Siam's death was a "huge loss for Hamas," but noted that the movement is easily capable of generating new leaders, often more radical than their predecessors.
Israel's intense assaults Thursday seemed to reflect an extra push to pressure Hamas negotiators into making concessions on a cease-fire and punish the militant group as much as possible before any end to hostilities.
Israeli envoy Amos Gilad was ordered to return to Cairo Friday for more truce talks. On Thursday he discussed a cease-fire proposal three with Egyptian officials, who are also trying to coax Hamas into ending the war. After meeting with Olmert and others on his return, it was decided to send Gilad back, Olmert's office said.
Israel launched the offensive Dec. 27 to end Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. Gaza medics say about 1,100 Palestinians, half of them civilians, have died; 13 Israelis have also been killed.
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, visiting Israel, said Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak told him the attack on the U.N. compound was a "grave" error and apologized for it.
"I conveyed my strong protest and outrage to the defense minister and foreign minister and demanded a full explanation," said Ban, who arrived Thursday from Egypt.
Israel's chief military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Avi Benayahu, said the military had not clarified the incident and that an investigation was under way.
"If it becomes clear that we returned shots at the source of fire, we will say so, and if it turns out we operated by mistake, we will not hesitate to confess," Benayahu told Israeli television.
Ging described the Israeli claim as "total nonsense" and "typical misinformation."
He said his staff in Tel Aviv was told by the Israeli liaison office "that there were no militants in the compound. There were militants operating ... in the area, but no militants or any firing from our compound. That's the official position of the Israeli authorities that deal with us. It happens, to my knowledge here, to be representative of the facts."
U.N. officials said hundreds of people sheltering in the compound were forced to flee, and that the Israeli shells contained white phosphorus, an incendiary agent that can cause horrific injuries. After the shelling, fire spread to nearby fuel tankers in the compound, triggering another massive blast.
The U.N. compound distributes food aid to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in the tiny seaside territory of 1.4 million people.
Ging said the U.N. had warned the Israeli military that the compound was in peril from shelling that had begun overnight. U.N. officials say they have provided Israel with GPS coordinates of all U.N. installations in Gaza to prevent such attacks.
The U.N. Security Council expressed "grave concern" and requested a briefing from U.N. officials.
"We are calling all parties to respect international humanitarian law and especially to ensure the protection of civilians," said Jean-Maurice Ripert, France's U.N. ambassador.
An artillery shell hit the Quds Hospital pharmacy, and another shell landed on its front steps early in the day. It caught fire after nightfall, forcing the evacuation.
"There's gunfire, and warplanes above us," medic Abdul Aziz Aishe said by cell phone as he and a group of people fled. Ambulances ferried them to another hospital.
Dr. Moaiya Hassanain, a Gaza health official, said at least 70 people were killed or died of wounds throughout Gaza on Thursday.
Israeli shells also hit five high-rise apartment buildings and a building housing media outlets in Gaza City, injuring several journalists.
Bullets hit a building housing offices of The Associated Press, entering a room where two staffers were working but wounding no one. The Foreign Press Association, representing journalists covering Israel and the Palestinian territories, demanded a halt to attacks on press buildings.
The army had collected the locations of media organizations at the outset of fighting to avoid such attacks.
Gaza City resident Sami Helu, 34, was evacuated by the international Red Cross after he, his wife and 8-year-old daughter sheltered from withering fire around their apartment in the Tel Hawwa neighborhood. During the escape, he saw cars and buildings gutted by fire, bomb craters, speeding ambulances and fallen electricity poles.
"I saw suitcases abandoned, I think from people fleeing the area," Helu said. "There was a car still running, there was some money inside."
Israeli police said 20 rockets hit southern Israel, injuring 10 people. Five of the wounded were in a car in the city of Beersheba.
Olmert's office said Rice telephoned him, and he told her Israel hoped Egyptian mediators could help bring about a cease-fire and an end to weapons smuggling. The statement said Rice, who leaves office Tuesday, told Olmert that the U.S. was willing to help resolve the smuggling issue.
The Bush administration was racing in its final days to negotiate a deal on American support for mediation efforts under which the U.S. would give technical support and expertise to prevent Hamas from rearming, said U.S. and Israeli diplomats.
The diplomats spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the talks.
Israel wants a total end to Hamas' rocket launches into Israel and an arms embargo on Gaza's militant rulers. Hamas has demanded an immediate Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and the opening of blockaded border crossings.
"These are our demands and we don't accept any political movement that does not accept them," the movement's top political leader, Khaled Mashaal, said in a televised address from his headquarters in Damascus, Syria.
Ban said Israel was preparing to decide soon on whether to accept a cease-fire.
"I hope that decision will be the right one," he said after meeting Israeli President Shimon Peres.
In addition to the attack on the U.N. office, Israel shells landed next to a U.N. school in another Gaza City neighborhood, wounding 14 people who had sought sanctuary there, medics and firefighters said.
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Barzak reported from Gaza City; Torchia from Jerusalem. Associated Press writers Diaa Hadid, Karin Laub and Ian Deitch in Jerusalem, and Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations contributed to this report.
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I cant believe Hamas allows this to continue. The palistinian people will probably think twice before voting in another terrorist group to run their country. hiding behind woman and children, putting caches in schools and mosques. Totally nuts. They shouold clear out the whole Gaza strip and transfer all of them to the west bank where they have support and can fend for themselves.
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Why is it you never see peace marches in the streets? Its always death, destruction and hatred marches. I think that is why they voted in a terrorist group to represent them, because they dont want peace.
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Serious question here. Why is the US so beholden to Israel? I mean, the official reason. Not necessarily the true one, but what is it that 'they' (we) tell others (or ourselves) as to why?
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Serious question here. Why is the US so beholden to Israel? I mean, the official reason. Not necessarily the true one, but what is it that 'they' (we) tell others (or ourselves) as to why?
What we tell other people: is that we are committed to Israel survival as a Jewish state.
(Even though they are now superior to most of their neighbors militarily they are still the underdog because everyone (Arabs mostly) want to see them wiped of the earth. Without US support they would eventually be wiped out financially and physically.)
The real reason: U.S. foreign policy is motivated primarily (and always has been) to advance its own perceived strategic interests. With Israel as an ally we have a strong presence in the area in case we need to take someone out quickly like Iran. We never do anything because we are Mr. Nice guy, never have.
Hope that helps
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More on the real reason... By supporting chaos in the region, the U.S. keeps the situation ripe for potential exploitation at any time. See The Shock Doctrine.
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What we tell other people: is that we are committed to Israel survival as a Jewish state.
(Even though they are now superior to most of their neighbors militarily they are still the underdog because everyone (Arabs mostly) want to see them wiped of the earth. Without US support they would eventually be wiped out financially and physically.)
But why? Why is it our responsibility or concern? Especially given your parenthetical.
The real reason: U.S. foreign policy is motivated primarily (and always has been) to advance its own perceived strategic interests. With Israel as an ally we have a strong presence in the area in case we need to take someone out quickly like Iran. We never do anything because we are Mr. Nice guy, never have.
Hope that helps
Yeah, I get that......I was just wondering what it is we tell others (ourselves) to justify it.
Thanks :seg2:
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But why? Why is it our responsibility or concern? Especially given your parenthetical.
Because they are one of our allies and it is our duty. Palestine is not an ally.
Ultimately, there is no contradiction between support for Israel and support for Palestine, for Israeli security and Palestinian rights are not mutually exclusive but mutually dependent on each other. I think after Obama takes office there will be a big push to change US policy regarding Israel. The US constantly undermines any grass root peace efforts on the streets of Israel and this will not be tolerated in the next administration. I also think (hoping) that Obama will change to a “Tough Love” approach to the problem and provide unconditional support for Israel's right to live in peace and security within its internationally recognized border, but an equally clear determination to end the occupation.
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But why? Why is it our responsibility or concern? Especially given your parenthetical.
Because they are one of our allies and it is our duty. Palestine is not an ally.
Ultimately, there is no contradiction between support for Israel and support for Palestine, for Israeli security and Palestinian rights are not mutually exclusive but mutually dependent on each other. I think after Obama takes office there will be a big push to change US policy regarding Israel. The US constantly undermines any grass root peace efforts on the streets of Israel and this will not be tolerated in the next administration. I also think (hoping) that Obama will change to a “Tough Love” approach to the problem and provide unconditional support for Israel's right to live in peace and security within its internationally recognized border, but an equally clear determination to end the occupation.
I doubt very much that Obama will be able to push that through. The "shadows" behind so called U.S. government are far more interested in preserving controlled chaos. That whole region is ripe for the mining as far as they are concerned. The Palestinians are the most expendable population at this point, and have been for some time.
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If that were true, then why is the US talking about withholding a billion dollars in loan guarantees over the settlement issue? Just for show in the twilight hour?
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But why? Why is it our responsibility or concern? Especially given your parenthetical.
Because they are one of our allies and it is our duty. Palestine is not an ally.
Ultimately, there is no contradiction between support for Israel and support for Palestine, for Israeli security and Palestinian rights are not mutually exclusive but mutually dependent on each other. I think after Obama takes office there will be a big push to change US policy regarding Israel. The US constantly undermines any grass root peace efforts on the streets of Israel and this will not be tolerated in the next administration. I also think (hoping) that Obama will change to a “Tough Love” approach to the problem and provide unconditional support for Israel's right to live in peace and security within its internationally recognized border, but an equally clear determination to end the occupation.
But what about all the UN resolutions that Israel has refused to abide by? I mean afterall we invaded Iraq, at least in part, because Saddam wouldn't comply with them. Here's what I found with just a quick Google search. A few stand out.
And this only includes those passed by the Security Council, not the many vetoed by the U.S.:
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UN Security Council Resolutions that Israel didn’t comply with:
SC Res. 237 (June 14, 1967): return of Palestinian inhabitants who fled from their homes.
SC Res. 242 (Nov. 22, 1967): "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war" and
"withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the conflict…"
SC Res. 252 (May 21, 1968): rescind measures changing legal status of Jerusalem and to end
its expropriation of land and properties.
SC Res. 267 (July 3, 1969): rescind measures changing legal status of Jerusalem.
SC Res. 271 (Sept. 15, 1969): rescind measures on Jerusalem and observe provisions of
Geneva Conventions and international law governing military occupation.
SC Res. 298 (Sept. 25, 1971): rescind measures on Jerusalem that "change the status quo of
the City."
SC Res. 338 (Oct. 22, 1973): implement SC resolution 242 (1967) "in all its parts."
SC Res. 368 (April 17, 1975): Israel must implement 242/338.
SC Res. 369 (May 28, 1974): implement 242/338.
SC Res. 371 (July 24, 1975): implement 242/338.
SC Res. 378 (Oct. 23, 1975): implement 242/338.
SC Res. 390 (May 28, 1976): implement 242/338
SC Res. 396 (Oct. 22, 1976): implement 242/338.
SC Res. 398 (Nov. 30, 1976): implement 242/338.
SC Res. 420 (Nov. 30, 1977): implement 242/338.
SC Res. 446 (March 22, 1979): deplores failure of Israel to abide by 237 and 252; end
settlement activities in the occupied territories.(still)
SC Res. 452 (July 20, 1979): end settlement activities in occupied territories, including
Jerusalem.
SC Res. 462 (March 1, 1980): dismantle existing settlements.
SC Res. 468 (May 8, 1980): stop expulsions
SC Res. 469 (May 20, 1980): stop expulsions
SC Res. 471 (June 5, 1980): comply with Geneva Conventions; protect Palestinians;
occupation must end.
SC Res. 476 (June 30, 1980): comply with Geneva Conventions; occupation must end.
SC Res. 478 (Aug. 20, 1980): declares new basic law for Jerusalem null and void.
SC Res. 484 (Dec. 19, 1980): let the expelled return.
SC Res. 592 (Dec. 8, 1986): comply with Geneva Conventions.
SC Res. 607 (Jan. 5, 1988): protect Palestinians.
SC Res. 608 (Jan. 14, 1988): no expulsions.
SC Res. 636 (July 6, 1989): no expulsions.
SC Res. 641 (Aug. 30, 1989): no expulsions.
SC Res 672 (Oct. 12, 1990): deplores massacre, sending UN mission.
SC Res 673 (Oct. 24, 1990): sending UN Mission.
SC Res. 681 (Dec. 20, 1990): deplores expulsions.
SC Res. 694 (May 24, 1991): no expulsions.
SC Res. 726 (Jan. 6, 1992: comply with Geneva Conventions. No expulsions.
SC Res. 799 (Dec. 18, 1992): no expulsions.
SC Res. 904 (March 18, 1994): protect Palestinians.
SC Res. 1073 (Sept. 28, 1996): protect Palestinians.
SC Res. 1081 (Nov. 27, 1996): implement 242/338.
SC 1265 (Sept. 17, 1999): implement Hague Conventions and Geneva Conventions.
SC Res. 1322 (Oct. 7, 2000): condemns excessive force; comply with Geneva Conventions.
SC Res. 1397 (March 12, 2002): calls for two-state solution.
SC Res. 1402 (March 30, 2002): withdraw from Palestinian cities.
SC Res. 1403 (April 4, 2002): implement 1402.
SC Res. 1405 (April 19, 2002): lift restrictions on Jenin; send fact-finding team.
SC Res. 1435 (Sept. 24 2002): cease the destruction of the Palestinian civilian and security
infrastructure in Ramallah and withdraw from Palestinian cities.
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But what about all the UN resolutions that Israel has refused to abide by? I mean afterall we invaded Iraq, at least in part, because Saddam wouldn't comply with them.
The U.N.? Shit, the U.N. is incapable of anything. Those people love living in the City because most of their home countries are shit holes. The U.N. is bumbling, corrupt, incapable of anything worthwhile. Rwanda. Kosovo is still a mess and Clark, Clinton and Albright should be tried as war criminals. What will U.N. backing do? Have you heard about Christian churches being torched in the former Yugoslavia by Muslims? Wait, the U.N. was there, but the U.N. troops ran away, now you have a big mess. Where is the outcry over that? Probably none becuase the U.N. loves dead Christians. Kick the U.N. the fuck out of New York, get some taxes from that property for the City coffers, that would be something worthwhile, the U.N. is a joke and people like Hussein know/knew it. How many U.N. resolutions did Saddam blow off?
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But what about all the UN resolutions that Israel has refused to abide by? I mean afterall we invaded Iraq, at least in part, because Saddam wouldn't comply with them.
The U.N.? Shit, the U.N. is incapable of anything. Those people love living in the City because most of their home countries are shit holes. The U.N. is bumbling, corrupt, incapable of anything worthwhile. Rwanda. Kosovo is still a mess and Clark, Clinton and Albright should be tried as war criminals. What will U.N. backing do? Have you heard about Christian churches being torched in the former Yugoslavia by Muslims? Wait, the U.N. was there, but the U.N. troops ran away, now you have a big mess. Where is the outcry over that? Probably none becuase the U.N. loves dead Christians. Kick the U.N. the fuck out of New York, get some taxes from that property for the City coffers, that would be something worthwhile, the U.N. is a joke and people like Hussein know/knew it. How many U.N. resolutions did Saddam blow off?
I agree completely about the UN, but wasn't that why we went after Saddam? Because he refused to comply with the UN resolutions? I admittedly know little about this, which is why I'm asking. I'm not on either side and not trying to start an argument.
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The Spy in the White House
Any conscious, committed act requires the means, motive and opportunity to be considered criminal once that act is determined to be violative of existing law.
It is in that light that I must examine the appointment of Rahm Emanuel as Chief of Staff of the White House for President Barack Obama. I assert that Emanuel is a spy in the White House. He has dual citizenship; he has both US and Israeli citizenship and since he has now and will in the future have access to the highest level of US State secret material in the course of his duties as White House Chief of Staff, I assert that he therefore constitutes a clear and present threat to the security of the United States. Emanuel has divided loyalty; that fact is implicit in his dual citizenship.
The very idea of a citizen of a foreign nation having access to US foreign and domestic policy plans, in addition to national security information, is deeply disturbing. Rahm Emanuel is a direct pipeline to the Israeli government. Before the American people, indeed before the Congress of the United States is aware of top Administrative foreign policy and Defense Department plans, the government of Israel will know these strategies in exquisite detail, and well in advance, via Rahm Emanuel.
By virtue of his dual citizenship, Rahm Emanuel constitutes a security threat to this Nation, and should be summarily removed. I urge the Congress of the United States to introduce legislation prohibiting dual citizen/foreign nationals from occupying sensitive positions in the Executive Administration of this nation.
It is the absolute epitome of idiocy to allow a citizen of Israel (for that, in fact, is what Emanuel is) to remain as Chief of Staff of the White House. Policies, alliances and military plans are formulated in the White House by the President, and are properly designated “State Secrets.” As Chief of Staff of the White House, Emanuel has access to this extremely sensitive material.
Again, I assert that Rahm Emanuel is a spy in the White House, his dual citizenship as an Israeli constitutes a clear and present danger to the nation, and to allow him to remain closely approaches treason, by definition a criminal act committed by all involved in this travesty.
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It is odd how much this subject concerns people around the world. We rarely see anything about it in our newspapers. I was scanning the blog of the other Rotsne (who I got kicked out of a board, because they took him for me). He is very angry at foreigner - very angry. Anyhow here is a link to his blog (http://http://rotsne.wordpress.com/). He writes:
Just the suggestion that I should have anything against Jews or others is stupid. As most Danes I don’t care about the present conflict. I didn’t know that they were at each others throat. Our media doesn’t cover it. We have more important domestic issues like early retirement and whether a person can be called a “perl” by our policeforces to discuss. It isn’t like it is WWII down there. We are only talking about 1,000 lives lost, which is about the number of lives lost in ordinary peak traffic in Europe on a typical month.
Why all that drama? I really don’t know, but it meant that I have joined a Danish movement supporting non-intervention.
There you have it. Among nations in Europe is properly only France who wants to make people believe that they are more than a European province who has their politicians running around eating frog-legs down there. Most people in Europe don't care. We have had our wars and frankly I believe that more than 50 years of war in that region should have settled things by now. Even two nations like Sweden and Denmark can co-exist along each other after having more than 400 years of war over the years. We have learned to adapt. We avoid "Sur-stroemling" and dry snuff which even the women in Sweden chew on all the time. We give them a skin milk whenever they feel like having the upper hand because they get drunk too easy.
People can co-exist peacefully along each other and frankly I believe that they should have learned it by now.