Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: psy on December 19, 2008, 07:26:06 PM
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http://jonfordham.com/aaron_bacon_tease ... v-235.html (http://jonfordham.com/aaron_bacon_teaser_f23_acv-235.html)
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http://jonfordham.com/aaron_bacon_teaser_f23_acv-235.html
that kind of looks like it sucks
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I hope it is done well. Thanks for posting this. The more exposure the better.
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great job on the teaser. cannot wait to see the movie.
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Wow. It looks really good.
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Wow. It looks really good.
Did you watch the trailer? It looks bad, movie of the week lame. The "teen" looks to be in his early 30s. The Tagline is: "they used tough, not love," but there is no study of how his parents were involved in the "tough" but not "love" themselves, by having him abducted and imprisoned. There is no observation about how they screwed up their other kid by sticking him in a drug treatment center for smoking pot. These parents are HORRIBLE parents. None of that is discussed. The angle of the film is, this kid was fucked up, (he really wasn't, his parent's were) He needed help, but this went too far. In other words, abduction and imprisonment is OK to deal with kids who irk their parents enough to deem them "out of control," just don't, you know, KILL them. I don't like that incompleteness
It looks like it really sucks. Not just the story-line, but the acting, the filming, everything. Ugh. Rent the Magdelane Sisters to watch a good rendition of Program in action. Or rent 1984. Those are the only films I've seen to get programs right.
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Did you watch the trailer? It looks bad, movie of the week lame. The "teen" looks to be in his early 30s. The Tagline is: "they used tough, not love," but there is no study of how his parents were involved in the "tough" but not "love" themselves, by having him abducted and imprisoned. There is no observation about how they screwed up their other kid by sticking him in a drug treatment center for smoking pot. These parents are HORRIBLE parents. None of that is discussed. The angle of the film is, this kid was fucked up, (he really wasn't, his parent's were) He needed help, but this went too far. In other words, abduction and imprisonment is OK to deal with kids who irk their parents enough to deem them "out of control," just don't, you know, KILL them. I don't like that incompleteness
It looks like it really sucks. Not just the story-line, but the acting, the filming, everything. Ugh. Rent the Magdelane Sisters to watch a good rendition of Program in action. Or rent 1984. Those are the only films I've seen to get programs right.
Finally, someone with a little taste!! (assuming what you said is true about the entire movie)
Nothing about the parents' fucked up decision to put their "troubled teen" in a program, as if they weren't at all responsible. Never saw the Magdalen Sisters, but I would have to agree with you about 1984. I hate the thought of lame movies being made about REAL abuse. Seriously, where does the exploitation end?
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The site is not very viewer friendly in China. No matter..
I'm not going to speculate on the motives of the young man's parents regarding their decision to place young Aaron in a program. Did they do it for the sheer pleasure of sadism or did they buy a false bill of goods?
I've never met them and I doubt I ever will.
Unlike parents of today who make their decisions for whatever reasons the parents of 1994 didn't have 1/100th of the material open to them to make an informed decision.
March 1, 1994, the day of Aaron's death, isn't exactly a standout day for the proliferation of information about the evils of programs. Looking back programs like North Star were being touted as the alternative to abusive programs. Now they are being billed as some sort of jiffy lube for fixing all your kids ails in 15 minutes or less. To say that the idea that programs, military schools, and juvies are abusive is a new one is idiotically absurd. This knowledge has been floating around the edges of the American conscious for decades. Given the cultural trends of the or pre1994 it isn't hard to remind ourselves that programs more or less had a free ride because back then they were considered the last refugee for kids who either were an embarrassment, going to end up deadinsaneorinjail, or genuinely crazy fuckers who are probably Nascar fans today.
Wilderness programs were seen as the safe place to send kids to keep them out of those psych hospitals that Iamartsy talks about a couple forums up. Not pleasant places and I'm damn certain that even back in the 1970's it was general knowledge that they were abusive hell holes.
The franchising or McDonaldization of programs to the extent that torture became a packaged business with the comparable ease of going through a drive through did not exist back in the 1990s. A few large congloms existed like Eckerds, CEDU, Three Springs and a couple others. The majority of programs were mom and pop outfits that tended to fly under the radar due to the burden of advertising. Negative publicity did the trick and when ever some bootcamp managed to get itself on the news or some juvie hall was found to be the next Dachau I'm almost positive these mom and pop's did back flips with the extra income flow.
Mind you it was on the cusp of exploding into it, but I tend to think programs didn't really hit their big growth surge until around 2000 and about the time of the dot com boom.
The sort of the long:
Regardless of their motives, the parents of Aaron Bacon didn't have the information available to them that parent's have today. Parent's today send their kids to programs with the full knowledge at their fingers that they kids could be killed, abused, or neglected.
I think one thing we can safely assume is that since March 1st 1995 the mum and pop of Aaron Bacon have done a far better job of kicking their own asses than we could ever hope to do. Might want to remember that when going hunting for a pound of flesh that isn't around to take in the first place.
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The site is not very viewer friendly in China. No matter..
I'm not going to speculate on the motives of the young man's parents regarding their decision to place young Aaron in a program. Did they do it for the sheer pleasure of sadism or did they buy a false bill of goods?
I've never met them and I doubt I ever will.
Unlike parents of today who make their decisions for whatever reasons the parents of 1994 didn't have 1/100th of the material open to them to make an informed decision.
March 1, 1994, the day of Aaron's death, isn't exactly a standout day for the proliferation of information about the evils of programs. Looking back programs like North Star were being touted as the alternative to abusive programs. To say that the idea that programs, military schools, and juvies are abusive is a new one is idiotically absurd. This knowledge has been floating around the edges of the American conscious for decades. Given the cultural trends of the or pre1994 it isn't hard to remind ourselves that programs more or less had a free ride because back then they were considered the last refugee for kids who either were an embarrassment, going to end up deadinsaneorinjail, or genuinely crazy fuckers who are probably Nascar fans today.
Wilderness programs were seen as the safe place to send kids to keep them out of those psych hospitals that Iamartsy talks about a couple forums up. Not pleasant places and I'm damn certain that even back in the 1970's it was general knowledge that they were abusive hell holes.
The franchising or McDonaldization of programs to the extent that torture became a packaged business with the comparable ease of going through a drive through did not exist back in the 1990s. A few large congloms existed like Eckerds, CEDU, Three Springs and a couple others. The majority of programs were mom and pop outfits that tended to fly under the radar due to the burden of advertising. Negative publicity did the trick and when ever some bootcamp managed to get itself on the news or some juvie hall was found to be the next Dachau I'm almost positive these mom and pop's did back flips with the extra income flow.
Mind you it was on the cusp of exploding into it, but I tend to think programs didn't really hit their big growth surge until around 2000 and about the time of the dot com boom.
The sort of the long:
Regardless of their motives, the parents of Aaron Bacon didn't have the information available to them that parent's have today. Parent's today send their kids to programs with the full knowledge at their fingers that they kids could be killed, abused, or neglected.
I think one thing we can safely assume is that since March 1st 1995 the mum and pop of Aaron Bacon have done a far better job of kicking their own asses than we could ever hope to do. Might want to remember that when going hunting for a pound of flesh that isn't around to take in the first place.
the assumption that they're kicking themselves is an interesting one. Maybe you are right. But if you knew program parents, you'd know that assumption is not necessarily accurate--at least they don't kick themselves in the sence real parents would. These people tend to be crazy and if they kick themselves its the way that oj kicks himself. In the book they remark that they are comforted now that at least aaron understood why they had him kidnapped.
think about that.
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Believe me, I know program parents all to well for my own comfort. I had the mis-fortune of meeting way to many of them. I met the sadists, I met the dupes, I met the uncaring, and I met the true believers. I'm only viewing Aaron Bacon's parents as the parents of a boy who was killed by the neglect of others. I don't for a second believe they wanted that for their son.
As for the book I'd have to read it in full before I felt confident in thinking about anything they said in it.
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Wilderness programs were seen as the safe place to send kids to keep them out of those psych hospitals that Iamartsy talks about a couple forums up. Not pleasant places and I'm damn certain that even back in the 1970's it was general knowledge that they were abusive hell holes.
For the longest time juvie and/or reform school were considered to be the only options. And juvie wasn't quite as distinct from the adult sector in the penal system, as it is these days. There were plenty of cases of impressionable kids being turned to a life of crime due to time spent on the other side of bars. Or worse, being victimized and raped by older, hardened sorts.
Wilderness programs and psych hospitals started to become options around the same time in the 1970s, psych hospitals a little ahead of wilderness in that game. Although I do not have any authoritative proof, it is my opinion that this was perhaps part of the genesis of the (many) insurance scams surrounding a very great many inappropriate forced hospitalizations.
Deborah and others have posted extensively about the genesis of Wilderness Programs. For an example of how they were seen as an alternative to juvie, read what Vision Quest (http://http://www.vq.com/aboutus/history.html) founder Bob Burton has to say about it:
In the early 1970's troubled youth in America were treated very differently than they are today. Youth in trouble with the law -- at times for simply running away from home -- were often locked up in state or county correctional facilities. Private programs were primarily church-run orphanages for pre-adolescent boys, or private mental health and psychiatric facilities for those families who could afford to pay.
Bob Burton had worked in the State of Delaware corrections system for four years when he was placed in charge of the youth detention center for Clark County (Las Vegas) Nevada. In that capacity he was selected to participate in a conference in Long Beach, California on "Corrections of the Future". During the conference Bob was particularly inspired by the words of a mathematician who predicted that more success could be obtained in the field's outcomes by having more alternatives, or "redundancy," patterned after the design of a three-stage rocket. Bob left that conference with genuine enthusiasm for what he wanted to accomplish. He took the ideas of the mathematician to heart and decided that he had to provide an alternative for the "one way in and one way out" way that the corrections system operated.
Little did he know where that decision would take him and the thousands of kids who would be affected by it.
In 1973 Bob found an Arizona judge -- John Collins of the Pima County Juvenile Court in Tucson -- who was also fed up with what the system was doing with kids in trouble. A visionary with a heart and little patience for the bureaucracy, Judge Collins placed the first youth into VisionQuest and ordered the State to pay. With financing from Bob's retirement, and some help from his parent's credit cards, VisionQuest began operations with a contract to take six youthful offenders from Pima County. While VisionQuest wanted to provide services to youth in their own homes, regulatory and funding mechanisms required that VisionQuest operate as a residential program. A wilderness component was quickly added...[/list]
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Wilderness programs were seen as the safe place to send kids to keep them out of those psych hospitals that Iamartsy talks about a couple forums up. Not pleasant places and I'm damn certain that even back in the 1970's it was general knowledge that they were abusive hell holes.
For the longest time juvie and/or reform school were considered to be the only options. And juvie wasn't quite as distinct from the adult sector in the penal system, as it is these days. There were plenty of cases of impressionable kids being turned to a life of crime due to time spent on the other side of bars. Or worse, being victimized and raped by older, hardened sorts.
Wilderness programs and psych hospitals started to become options around the same time in the 1970s, psych hospitals a little ahead of wilderness in that game. Although I do not have any authoritative proof, it is my opinion that this was perhaps part of the genesis of the (many) insurance scams surrounding a very great many inappropriate forced hospitalizations.
Deborah and others have posted extensively about the genesis of Wilderness Programs. For an example of how they were seen as an alternative to juvie, read what Vision Quest (http://http://www.vq.com/aboutus/history.html) founder Bob Burton has to say about it:
In the early 1970's troubled youth in America were treated very differently than they are today. Youth in trouble with the law -- at times for simply running away from home -- were often locked up in state or county correctional facilities. Private programs were primarily church-run orphanages for pre-adolescent boys, or private mental health and psychiatric facilities for those families who could afford to pay.
Bob Burton had worked in the State of Delaware corrections system for four years when he was placed in charge of the youth detention center for Clark County (Las Vegas) Nevada. In that capacity he was selected to participate in a conference in Long Beach, California on "Corrections of the Future". During the conference Bob was particularly inspired by the words of a mathematician who predicted that more success could be obtained in the field's outcomes by having more alternatives, or "redundancy," patterned after the design of a three-stage rocket. Bob left that conference with genuine enthusiasm for what he wanted to accomplish. He took the ideas of the mathematician to heart and decided that he had to provide an alternative for the "one way in and one way out" way that the corrections system operated.
Little did he know where that decision would take him and the thousands of kids who would be affected by it.
In 1973 Bob found an Arizona judge -- John Collins of the Pima County Juvenile Court in Tucson -- who was also fed up with what the system was doing with kids in trouble. A visionary with a heart and little patience for the bureaucracy, Judge Collins placed the first youth into VisionQuest and ordered the State to pay. With financing from Bob's retirement, and some help from his parent's credit cards, VisionQuest began operations with a contract to take six youthful offenders from Pima County. While VisionQuest wanted to provide services to youth in their own homes, regulatory and funding mechanisms required that VisionQuest operate as a residential program. A wilderness component was quickly added...[/list]
Yeah more or less what I thought and knew already. Though you forget that wilderness therapy spun out of the Salesmanship Club Program down in Texas which went on to spin off into Eckerd Youth Alternatives. Short term programming was merely the next logical progression.
And like I said everyone back then just knew what horrible places juvies were and how terrible psych wards were, and how reforms schools were for kids who smoked the dreaded devil herb. Wilderness programs never had it easier ripping people off.
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Yeah more or less what I thought and knew already. Though you forget that wilderness therapy spun out of the Salesmanship Club Program down in Texas which went on to spin off into Eckerd Youth Alternatives. Short term programming was merely the next logical progression.
And like I said everyone back then just knew what horrible places juvies were and how terrible psych wards were, and how reforms schools were for kids who smoked the dreaded devil herb. Wilderness programs never had it easier ripping people off.
Yup, didn't want to even get into that whole-hog 'cause this web has been interconnecting from many different sources all over the place for a long long time.
Mostly I wanted to shove Bob Burton's statement in there, lol. Simply because he says flat out why he wanted to be an alternative to juvie. Conditions at juvie, and the incredibly minor reasons that could end up landing you there, were a real concern back then.
An interesting coincidence here: I came across a real heartbreak of a story (http://http://oranous.com/florida/JohnMarek/JohnMarekfile.htm) yesterday when I was mucking about for a John Looney* post (of Timberlawn Psychiatric Center / Hospital fame). This was an undated orphan page about a young man who was on trial for murder, and part of his childhood history was his foster mother's consideration of the Dallas Salesmanship Club as a placement. At the time of that consideration, the Shady Brook School and Residential Treatment Center was also suggested to her, and the kid ended up attending the latter from June 11, 1974 through sometime in December of 1975.
Mrs. Marek expressed the opinion that John needs more structure than she is able to provide, more so now when she is running for office, and I agree that John needs more structure than he is getting right now. She is considering the Adventure Trails of the Salesmanship Club in Dallas, and St. Joseph's School of the Catholic Charities a possible placement possibilities, and I also gave her the name and address of Shadybrook School in Richardson as another possibility. She is going to check on them and see what kind of placement she can come up with. Champus Insurance will cover 80% and the rest will be paid by the Welfare Department.
* (The connection with Dr. John Looney is that he was employed as an Attending Psychiatrist at Shady Brook School & RTC for about ten years: 1976-1986, concurrent with the time he was employed at Timberlawn Psychiatric Center in the same capacity.)
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Robert Bacon's testimony on the death of his son:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM)
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I am of the strong opinion that if irresponsible, mentally unstable, selfish, and over controlling parents didnt exist, neither would these programs.
When a kid gets sent away for smoking weed and cutting class, or running away to escape their parents you can ONLY blame the parents for their lack of ability to raise children. Too many stupid people have kids when they are not aware what raising kids intails. I dont speak from an outsiders view either, I raise kids for a living and I am 10 times better at it then most. The problem is a lack of respect. Aaron's mother and father did not respect Aaron enough to realize that he was just being a teenager and if he needed help he would have asked for it.
When we get into this whole "parents get conned" issue there are several factors you need to consider before that excuse can be awarded. One, did you even care to do the research or were you sold by an Edcon and a fancy brochure? Two, was your child truly in need of help? (this I believe is where most parents are simply acting out of spite) Three, did you truly exhaust all options and do everything you could BEFORE you considered a program? The answers to these questions will most likely always be the opposite of the truth. Because most parents are blinded by their own emotions and pride.
I think there should be programs for troubled parents that kids could send them to against their will. I would utilized that service.
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I thought you were done posting on fornits? Liar, liar pants on fire!!
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I thought you were done posting on fornits? Liar, liar pants on fire!!
ninja please.
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I am of the strong opinion that if irresponsible, mentally unstable, selfish, and over controlling parents didnt exist, neither would these programs.
When a kid gets sent away for smoking weed and cutting class, or running away to escape their parents you can ONLY blame the parents for their lack of ability to raise children. Too many stupid people have kids when they are not aware what raising kids intails. I dont speak from an outsiders view either, I raise kids for a living and I am 10 times better at it then most. The problem is a lack of respect. Aaron's mother and father did not respect Aaron enough to realize that he was just being a teenager and if he needed help he would have asked for it.
Whoooaaaaa.. hold on..
Have you raised kids or even plan on raising kids? I'd be real careful how we attempt to paint two people none of us have ever met. The same two people we are judging based upon our own experiences.
When we get into this whole "parents get conned" issue there are several factors you need to consider before that excuse can be awarded. One, did you even care to do the research or were you sold by an Edcon and a fancy brochure? Two, was your child truly in need of help? (this I believe is where most parents are simply acting out of spite) Three, did you truly exhaust all options and do everything you could BEFORE you considered a program? The answers to these questions will most likely always be the opposite of the truth. Because most parents are blinded by their own emotions and pride.
That excuse doesn't fly anymore given the glut of information on the internet. I posted back in 2007 what I called my Revised Manifesto. To me the only thing parents are allowed to offer are apologies. They get no free passes or excuses for sending their kids to programs anymore given that all the information they really need to make a truly informed decision is right at their fingertips.
www.google.com (http://www.google.com)
jesus h.
Back in 1994 that information wasn't there. Most of you seem to have forgotten what things were like in 1994. That is ok it was 14 or so years ago. You've all forgotten the bloodbath that was going on all over California with the Crips and the Bloods. Yall forgotten the crack wars of the urban ghettos. People were scared during those days and they had a decent enough reason to be scared.
Those were frightening times to be alive and to have a kid.
I truly feel bad for the parents of Aaron Bacon. The only thing they knew was their kid got rolled in the parking lot a school, he was smoking dope, and changing right before their eyes.
They turned to what they thought was the best possible alternative that was around during those times and did so working under the prevailing conditions.
1) This what they knew: Juvies, psych hospitals, and reform schools= bad
2) Crips beat up their son in the parking lot= very bad
3) The mainstream American view of smoking hooch at the time= gateway drug to becoming a needle jockey=bad
Try not to forget this before you guys start tearing into these people. The media hype, the government war on drugs, the LA riots, and the whole culture of the 90's which went a long ways to kicking off the entire craze for programs in the first place was perpetuated not by incompetence but by the total vacuum of information.
I think there should be programs for troubled parents that kids could send them to against their will. I would utilized that service.
I actually offered to conduct a workshop for Astart to show those pansies how shit really rolls. I figured a dose of reality, or as close as I could get to it, might do them some good.
No takers so far.
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When we get into this whole "parents get conned" issue there are several factors you need to consider before that excuse can be awarded. One, did you even care to do the research or were you sold by an Edcon and a fancy brochure? Two, was your child truly in need of help? (this I believe is where most parents are simply acting out of spite) Three, did you truly exhaust all options and do everything you could BEFORE you considered a program? The answers to these questions will most likely always be the opposite of the truth. Because most parents are blinded by their own emotions and pride.
Che makes a good point concerning the info available in 1994, but these are good questions.
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OK. it may be slightly unfair for me to automatically assume Aaron's parents were one thing or another, however I am of the opinion that sending your child away for smoking weed is not only highly illogical but indicates a lack of trust and as I stated respect for your child as a person.
So, I think I should stand by my statement.
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This is probably the wrong thread to be making a statement of that sort. I strongly suggest you either grave dig my original Revised Manifesto thread or do up your own version of it.
The Bacon's shouldn't be subjected to any sort of second guessing. They probably do it to themselves all the time and we'd be some seriously sorry pieces of shit for adding to it with our own notions of right and wrong.
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I am of the strong opinion that if irresponsible, mentally unstable, selfish, and over controlling parents didnt exist, neither would these programs.
When a kid gets sent away for smoking weed and cutting class, or running away to escape their parents you can ONLY blame the parents for their lack of ability to raise children. Too many stupid people have kids when they are not aware what raising kids intails. I dont speak from an outsiders view either, I raise kids for a living and I am 10 times better at it then most. The problem is a lack of respect. Aaron's mother and father did not respect Aaron enough to realize that he was just being a teenager and if he needed help he would have asked for it.
Whoooaaaaa.. hold on..
Have you raised kids or even plan on raising kids? I'd be real careful how we attempt to paint two people none of us have ever met. The same two people we are judging based upon our own experiences.
When we get into this whole "parents get conned" issue there are several factors you need to consider before that excuse can be awarded. One, did you even care to do the research or were you sold by an Edcon and a fancy brochure? Two, was your child truly in need of help? (this I believe is where most parents are simply acting out of spite) Three, did you truly exhaust all options and do everything you could BEFORE you considered a program? The answers to these questions will most likely always be the opposite of the truth. Because most parents are blinded by their own emotions and pride.
That excuse doesn't fly anymore given the glut of information on the internet. I posted back in 2007 what I called my Revised Manifesto. To me the only thing parents are allowed to offer are apologies. They get no free passes or excuses for sending their kids to programs anymore given that all the information they really need to make a truly informed decision is right at their fingertips.
http://www.google.com (http://www.google.com)
jesus h.
Back in 1994 that information wasn't there. Most of you seem to have forgotten what things were like in 1994. That is ok it was 14 or so years ago. You've all forgotten the bloodbath that was going on all over California with the Crips and the Bloods. Yall forgotten the crack wars of the urban ghettos. People were scared during those days and they had a decent enough reason to be scared.
Those were frightening times to be alive and to have a kid.
I truly feel bad for the parents of Aaron Bacon. The only thing they knew was their kid got rolled in the parking lot a school, he was smoking dope, and changing right before their eyes.
They turned to what they thought was the best possible alternative that was around during those times and did so working under the prevailing conditions.
1) This what they knew: Juvies, psych hospitals, and reform schools= bad
2) Crips beat up their son in the parking lot= very bad
3) The mainstream American view of smoking hooch at the time= gateway drug to becoming a needle jockey=bad
Try not to forget this before you guys start tearing into these people. The media hype, the government war on drugs, the LA riots, and the whole culture of the 90's which went a long ways to kicking off the entire craze for programs in the first place was perpetuated not by incompetence but by the total vacuum of information.
I think there should be programs for troubled parents that kids could send them to against their will. I would utilized that service.
I actually offered to conduct a workshop for Astart to show those pansies how shit really rolls. I figured a dose of reality, or as close as I could get to it, might do them some good.
No takers so far.
Aaron was a rich kid. He wasn't involved with the crips(!?!) Stop talking about 1994 in the midwest like it's 1939 Poland.
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The Bacon's shouldn't be subjected to any sort of second guessing. They probably do it to themselves all the time and we'd be some seriously sorry pieces of shit for adding to it with our own notions of right and wrong.
Since when did you join the morals police? I'm not the sorry piece of shit that got my kid killed.
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Aaron was a rich kid. He wasn't involved with the crips(!?!) Stop talking about 1994 in the midwest like it's 1939 Poland.
simple google search says this is not the case.
The crips rolled him in the parking lot of his school..
http://http://outside.away.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html
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The Bacon's shouldn't be subjected to any sort of second guessing. They probably do it to themselves all the time and we'd be some seriously sorry pieces of shit for adding to it with our own notions of right and wrong.
Since when did you join the morals police? I'm not the sorry piece of shit that got my kid killed.
So now two people you don't know, have never met, and two people you've already admitted to being rash in passing judgment on are pieces of shit?
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Aaron was a rich kid. He wasn't involved with the crips(!?!) Stop talking about 1994 in the midwest like it's 1939 Poland.
simple google search says this is not the case.
The crips rolled him in the parking lot of his school..
http://http://outside.away.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html
yeah but getting attacked in a parking lot isn't the same as being down with the crips. i'm sorry. i read the book. aaron's parents were wealthy. They live in a well to do area. Who knows if whoever attacked him was really in the crips, or were poseurs? Porgram parents tend to exagerate things. Kids exagerate things. either way, that hardly makes aaron a gangbanger, intent on crime. whoever you supposedly get attacked by in a parking lot you are the same as now? I'm not juding these parents in the sense that I'm saying they are evil, but they are inadequate peopel with boundary issues because they were having their kid, kidnapped without anything that could begin to justify that sort of reaction (nothing justifies it, but if someone is a full out heroin addict at least it's understandable) They seem to be just mentally ill, abusive people, --not "bad," but they are caught up in a altered reality of their kid's badness and respond to that badness, in a way that is abusive.
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Before people choose to go 'round 'n 'round dissing the Bacons, they should kindly watch this YouTube clip one more time. Robert Bacon spends practically half the air time chastising himself for that final and fatal decision. These people have paid more than enough. There are plenty more deserving targets out there for those of us who have bile enough to spare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM)
Moreover, might I bring up just how much influence a piece like this has in getting the word out re. what these hellholes are really all about? The Bacons could have chosen to keep their private hell private. Instead, they chose to go public with this, even fourteen years later, in the hopes that their testimony could make a difference in other families' lives. That says a LOT about where they are coming from.
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Aaron was a rich kid. He wasn't involved with the crips(!?!) Stop talking about 1994 in the midwest like it's 1939 Poland.
simple google search says this is not the case.
The crips rolled him in the parking lot of his school..
http://http://outside.away.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html
yeah but getting attacked in a parking lot isn't the same as being down with the crips. i'm sorry. i read the book. aaron's parents were wealthy. They live in a well to do area. Who knows if whoever attacked him was really in the crips, or were poseurs? Porgram parents tend to exagerate things. Kids exagerate things. either way, that hardly makes aaron a gangbanger, intent on crime. whoever you supposedly get attacked by in a parking lot you are the same as now? I'm not juding these parents in the sense that I'm saying they are evil, but they are inadequate peopel with boundary issues because they were having their kid, kidnapped without anything that could begin to justify that sort of reaction (nothing justifies it, but if someone is a full out heroin addict at least it's understandable) They seem to be just mentally ill, abusive people, --not "bad," but they are caught up in a altered reality of their kid's badness and respond to that badness, in a way that is abusive.
So you've read a book and determined that these people are mentally ill and abusive?
OOOK.....
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3
Aaron was a rich kid. He wasn't involved with the crips(!?!) Stop talking about 1994 in the midwest like it's 1939 Poland.
simple google search says this is not the case.
The crips rolled him in the parking lot of his school..
http://http://outside.away.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html
yeah but getting attacked in a parking lot isn't the same as being down with the crips. i'm sorry. i read the book. aaron's parents were wealthy. They live in a well to do area. Who knows if whoever attacked him was really in the crips, or were poseurs? Porgram parents tend to exagerate things. Kids exagerate things. either way, that hardly makes aaron a gangbanger, intent on crime. whoever you supposedly get attacked by in a parking lot you are the same as now? I'm not juding these parents in the sense that I'm saying they are evil, but they are inadequate peopel with boundary issues because they were having their kid, kidnapped without anything that could begin to justify that sort of reaction (nothing justifies it, but if someone is a full out heroin addict at least it's understandable) They seem to be just mentally ill, abusive people, --not "bad," but they are caught up in a altered reality of their kid's badness and respond to that badness, in a way that is abusive.
So you've read a book and determined that these people are mentally ill and abusive?
OOOK.....
not "a" book. "The" book. or rather, the book"s" about the case. I'm not saying that this is definitely the case, but it seems to be the situation. they also put their other kid into a rehab (he didn't die thoug) for smoking pot. these people were not "normal"
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I'm glad we have people like you around dictating to the rest of us what normal and not normal is. I'll definitely sleep better at night now.
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I'm glad we have people like you around dictating to the rest of us what normal and not normal is. I'll definitely sleep better at night now.
sure. anyone else looking to take notes? Having your kid abducted and taken on some forced march with the further possibility of a rented prison because he's not completely obedient in everyway: NOT NORMAL.
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And if you were using that argument on a person who had their kid killed in a program this year I'd agree with you. Given the paucity of information avaliable in 1994 the argument is not applicable.
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fh
And if you were using that argument on a person who had their kid killed in a program this year I'd agree with you. Given the paucity of information avaliable in 1994 the argument is not applicable.
STOP TALKING ABOUT 1994 LIKE IT'S MARS. you don't need "information" to understand that you shouldn't abduct and imprison someone. You don'e need "information" to be abusive, crazy, unrealistic about your kids "problems" and have a reaction to it based in being an abusive, inadequate person.
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the landscape is the landscape
My friend, if you time travelled back to 1990 - you would find very few brazillian waxes and an abundance of bush.
the landscape is what the fucking landscape is
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fhAnd if you were using that argument on a person who had their kid killed in a program this year I'd agree with you. Given the paucity of information avaliable in 1994 the argument is not applicable.
STOP TALKING ABOUT 1994 LIKE IT'S MARS. you don't need "information" to understand that you shouldn't abduct and imprison someone. You don'e need "information" to be abusive, crazy, unrealistic about your kids "problems" and have a reaction to it based in being an abusive, inadequate person.
Loading the language are we?
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Little Billy, your parents still love you. Just because they left you here doesn't mean they don't care about you. Buck up little fella, things will get better, you'll see! There will be brighter days ahead, and I'll be rooting for you the entire time. Go get 'em Billy, I know you can do it!
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Heres my public apology:
Aaron Bacon's family has suffered enough, and It would be vindictive of me to try to further their pain. That is not my intention. They are not literally "pieces of shits". They WERE simply exactly like every other over dramatic, selfish, insensitive and irresponsible parent that finds any reason to get rid of their kids. The troubled teen industry has never offered help to "problem teenagers", they offer a temporary fix for the parent's "teenager problem".
We dont have to directly blame Aaron Bacon's parents, it seems they have remorse and that is all can be asked of them. For the fact that they have decided to get involved with this cause makes them alright in my book. Honestly, the only point I was making is that at the time, Aaron Bacon's parents had the same lack of trust and respect for their child as most parents do today.
I must also agree that the lack of information should not be an excuse. There have been red flags since the beginning. But the fact that there is so much information today only means that EACH AND EVERY parent that sends their kid to a program today IS a piece of shit.
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Before people choose to go 'round 'n 'round dissing the Bacons, they should kindly watch this YouTube clip one more time. Robert Bacon spends practically half the air time chastising himself for that final and fatal decision. These people have paid more than enough. There are plenty more deserving targets out there for those of us who have bile enough to spare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM)
Moreover, might I bring up just how much influence a piece like this has in getting the word out re. what these hellholes are really all about? The Bacons could have chosen to keep their private hell private. Instead, they chose to go public with this, even fourteen years later, in the hopes that their testimony could make a difference in other families' lives. That says a LOT about where they are coming from.
^^^ This.
I talked with Bob Bacon personally just after the hearings (IIRC, he recognized me from my Fornits picture and came up to me). At the time he was understandbly upset. While I don't remember exactly what he said, he was hurt that others (such as on Fornits) had such little compassion for program parents, even those whose kids who had died. You couldn't help but feel sorry for him. He loved his son, and now his son is dead. It's beyond cruel to blame him in any way for what the program did. He did not know what was going on. There wasn't information out there like there is now (though still not nearly enough).
Maybe his decision to send his kid to program was a little rash, but in retrospect, you don't think he regrets it? There is a lot of propoganda out there exaggerating the dangers of things like marijuana to scare parents into signing up for treatment. Some of it is born out of ignorance (true believers) and some of it is born out of malice and greed (programs, cult leaders). Either way, it's not really fair to so callously blame those who fall victim to lies. Everybody is vulnerable to getting conned... those who think they're invincible are generally the easiest marks.
Who is really to blame here: the victim of the con or the con artist? Again, please watch this video and see how easy it is to condemn the man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM)
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Heres how I see the parents and drugs issue.
Either they DID drugs when they were our age and learned some hard lessons they wanted us to avoid, or they DIDNT do drugs because they were too pussy to learn those lessons. Either way their ignorance on how drugs effect society should be blamed on the media because you must realize that these people are simply being controlling. My mom sent me to a program because I realized quickly that she couldn't control me and she felt out of control of me and my actions, therefore she was worried for what the future "might" bring. These actions are nothing short of control issues and paranoia, not ignorance. the ignorance comes in AFTER they admit their kid into the program.
Like I said, Im not going to blame Aaron Bacon's parents specifically, because I think remorse is the one thing that will allow me to set aside my judgments of people, but Im talking about parents in general. They all get this bullshit bailout excuse, only because most of us don't want to hate our parents. Well I don't hate mine, but I still am not blind to the fact that my mother made more than just an ignorant mistake.
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Aaron Bacon's mom is not your mom.
Stop projecting your issues with your mom onto his.
Thank you.
Bye.
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Heres how I see the parents and drugs issue.
These actions are nothing short of control issues and paranoia, not ignorance. the ignorance comes in AFTER they admit their kid into the program.
.
exactly. not everyone in the 90s sent their kids to a private prison. the ones that did were "special" types of people. To most people abducting and imprisoning abother human being is unethical and evil. But abusive people don't understand that. Abusive people are overwhelmed by a darkness they imagine in their kids anger, control issues, self-centeredness. Theses character flaws drove them to have their kids abducted and imprisoned, not ignorence.
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Now this is the story, all about how, my life got flipped, turned upside down. And Id like to take a minute, just sit right there, Ill tell you how I became the prince of a town called bel-air. In west Philadelphia, born and raised. On the playground where I spent most of my days. Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool, and all shooting some b-ball outside of the school.
When a couple of guys were up to no good, started making trouble in my neighborhood. I got in one little fight and my mom got scared, and said you're moving with your aunte and uncle in bel-air. I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said fresh and had a dice in the mirror. If anything I could say that this cab was rare, but I thought now forget it, yo homes to bel-air!
I pulled up to a house about seven or eight, and I yelled to the cabby yo, homes smell you later. Looked at my kingdom I was finally there. To settle my throne as the prince of bel-air.
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Heres how I see the parents and drugs issue.
These actions are nothing short of control issues and paranoia, not ignorance. the ignorance comes in AFTER they admit their kid into the program.
.
exactly. not everyone in the 90s sent their kids to a private prison. the ones that did were "special" types of people.
Bullshit.
And you are still loading the language.
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Heres how I see the parents and drugs issue.
These actions are nothing short of control issues and paranoia, not ignorance. the ignorance comes in AFTER they admit their kid into the program.
.
exactly. not everyone in the 90s sent their kids to a private prison. the ones that did were "special" types of people.
Bullshit.
And you are still loading the language.
Um, why are you negating the experience of 10, 000s of thousands of survivors? Can you cut the crap? If you were personally connected to people who sent their kids away in the 90s you would understand what I am saying
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We have members of spft on parent forums too - undercover. What is missing is solutions in the community which are NOT punishments.
What can you say to a parent to a child who are nearly 18 and have the mind of a 14 year old hating her own race and are currently on the streets because her mom called the cops in a moment of fear when she was punched down on the ground? This particular girls is ill but won't of course choose the solution the society has in hand for her: Jail because she is wanted on a bench warrant.
What do you say to another mother, who has a son who either was blackmailed or had to pay for drugs and let other addicts empty the house?
While we are fighting programs, we have to understand that the society has to offer other solutions beside programs as well. Else we can provide all the information in the world we want, but the parents would be caught by the government who will blame them and jail them when they allow their kids to act quite normal like Elisa Kelly and her husband (Pardoned from an insane sentence of 4 years because they served alcohol at a party for teens). How many parents are not forced to pay for their teens in the juvie or in a state sponsored RTC and placed in a situation where they as well could pay a private firm for the same warehousing?
How many times are the parents not told by the government how dangerous it is to have certain thing on record (truancy, alcohol possession or violence) when applying for college or having a criminal record when seeking a job.
The 1990s was a time when introducing zero-tolerance became the norm. 1 out of 100 are in prisons now (http://http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html). Some are teens serving life and now we know that most of them would not be a threat if they are released once they are matured around age 25. Some shouldn't be in prison at all (curfew breaking, underage alcohol possession and various slips in probation) but should wear a GPS-bracelet instead because they impose no danger to society.
But we have to think about the amount of information his parent had at their disposal in 1994. There were no ISAC, HEAL, Cafety, Spft or Fornits. There were no internet where they could google news about deaths. They had to rely on a combination of the marketing from the programs and all the warnings from the government telling them that Aaron was a candidate for the soon to be three strike laws.
I cannot pass judgment on them for their decision. Without the information we have at hand today they could only have saved his life by hiking beside him.
But we have to remember that while we have gone some miles and we all have done a good days work with revealing the abuse in the programs, we are far from reaching the goal, because still today the parents are caught in the middle by the actions of their kids and the hammer from the justice system, which can send their child to jail for life.
Let us be satisfied with documenting the past and start improve the future. Off to work!!!
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Heres how I see the parents and drugs issue.
These actions are nothing short of control issues and paranoia, not ignorance. the ignorance comes in AFTER they admit their kid into the program.
.
exactly. not everyone in the 90s sent their kids to a private prison. the ones that did were "special" types of people.
Bullshit.
And you are still loading the language.
Um, why are you negating the experience of 10, 000s of thousands of survivors? Can you cut the crap? If you were personally connected to people who sent their kids away in the 90s you would understand what I am saying
My brother got sent to Rocky Mountain Academy back in the 1990s and that compels me to disagree with you all the more.
Can you please stop attempting to appeal to my emotions along with loading the language? Further, can you stop attempting to paint all parents with the same brush strokes? Because what you are doing is almost exactly the same as what programs do.
They label people and then treat them with their one sized fits all modality.
Not all parents sent their kids to programs because they were lazy, incompetent, or sadistic.
Not all parents sent their kids to programs because they were conned either.
Each and everyone of them had their own motivations driven by their individual circumstances. So drop the programmie mentality and at least give people the dignity of viewing them as individuals rather than your own one sized fits all "parents are all kidnapping incompetent douchebag" lens that from what I can tell is nothing more than you projecting your feelings about your own parents onto others.
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Heres how I see the parents and drugs issue.
These actions are nothing short of control issues and paranoia, not ignorance. the ignorance comes in AFTER they admit their kid into the program.
.
exactly. not everyone in the 90s sent their kids to a private prison. the ones that did were "special" types of people.
Bullshit.
And you are still loading the language.
Um, why are you negating the experience of 10, 000s of thousands of survivors? Can you cut the crap? If you were personally connected to people who sent their kids away in the 90s you would understand what I am saying
My brother got sent to Rocky Mountain Academy back in the 1990s and that compels me to disagree with you all the more.
Can you please stop attempting to appeal to my emotions along with loading the language? Further, can you stop attempting to paint all parents with the same brush strokes? Because what you are doing is almost exactly the same as what programs do.
They label people and then treat them with their one sized fits all modality.
Not all parents sent their kids to programs because they were lazy, incompetent, or sadistic.
Not all parents sent their kids to programs because they were conned either.
Each and everyone of them had their own motivations driven by their individual circumstances. So drop the programmie mentality and at least give people the dignity of viewing them as individuals rather than your own one sized fits all "parents are all kidnapping incompetent douchebag" lens that from what I can tell is nothing more than you projecting your feelings about your own parents onto others.
I am not trying to appeal to your feelings. Don't play internet psychiatrist with me. And didn't your mom sexually abuse or something? Aren't you always talking about how horrible your parents are? This isn't true now?
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To most people abducting and imprisoning another human being is unethical and evil. But abusive people don't understand that. Abusive people are overwhelmed by a darkness they imagine in their kids anger, control issues, self-centeredness. Theses character flaws drove them to have their kids abducted and imprisoned, not ignorance.
Sad, but true.
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I am not trying to appeal to your feelings. Don't play internet psychiatrist with me. And didn't your mom sexually abuse or something? Aren't you always talking about how horrible your parents are? This isn't true now?
My parents weren't the ones who had my brother sent to RMA. Don't try to hide the fact that you've been playing judge, jury, and netshrink by labeling two people you've never met before as incompetent and abusive long before I suggested that you are projecting your own issues on others.
You've repeatedly loaded the language, you've repeatedly attempted to paint every single parent who has sent their kid to a program as evil.
This is not true.
At least attempt to not reduce yourself to program tactics. The one sized fits all style of black and white program thinking doesn't really work anywhere else but in a program.
Not all parents are incompetent evil monsters like you are making them out to be.
Not all parents are innocent either.
Each one has their own individual circumstances that you are ignoring.
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This thread is serious business. :on phone:
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This thread is serious business. :on phone:
No shit, sherlock!
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I am not trying to appeal to your feelings. Don't play internet psychiatrist with me. And didn't your mom sexually abuse or something? Aren't you always talking about how horrible your parents are? This isn't true now?
My parents weren't the ones who had my brother sent to RMA. Don't try to hide the fact that you've been playing judge, jury, and netshrink by labeling two people you've never met before as incompetent and abusive long before I suggested that you are projecting your own issues on others.
You've repeatedly loaded the language, you've repeatedly attempted to paint every single parent who has sent their kid to a program as evil.
This is not true.
At least attempt to not reduce yourself to program tactics. The one sized fits all style of black and white program thinking doesn't really work anywhere else but in a program.
Not all parents are incompetent evil monsters like you are making them out to be.
Not all parents are innocent either.
Each one has their own individual circumstances that you are ignoring.
Your point was not every one has someone abducted and imprisoned because they are mentally ill, inadequate or negligent and you used your family as an example to prove that. But your family is, in fact, mentally ill, inadequate, abusive and negligent. What were the circumstances of your brother being sent away? Was he abducted and held against his will?
Having a human being abducted and imprisoned is an abusive, violent, criminal act. Raping a human being is an abusive, violent, criminal act. To a certain extent these acts can be blamed on culture, but ultimately in both cases the “cause” of the crime is mostly the individual’s personal moral and psychological inadequacy.
Stop bringing up “loaded language” and the like. I am not a program. If were going to play now-YOU’RE-the-program game, stop telling me to alter my natural way of speaking to fit the parameters you set, just like a program. And stop being so defensive. I've never said every single person who has their kids abducted and imprisoned is mentally ill, abusive or inadequate, but every one of them particpated in act of violence and abuse, and yes, the VAST majority of those who do so are led astray by their personal corruption, not ignorance.
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dkla
Before people choose to go 'round 'n 'round dissing the Bacons, they should kindly watch this YouTube clip one more time. Robert Bacon spends practically half the air time chastising himself for that final and fatal decision. These people have paid more than enough. There are plenty more deserving targets out there for those of us who have bile enough to spare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDwanoycFcM)
Moreover, might I bring up just how much influence a piece like this has in getting the word out re. what these hellholes are really all about? The Bacons could have chosen to keep their private hell private. Instead, they chose to go public with this, even fourteen years later, in the hopes that their testimony could make a difference in other families' lives. That says a LOT about where they are coming from.
that's true. remorse and acting on that remorse, that means a lot.
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Aaron Bacon's mom is not your mom.
Stop projecting your issues with your mom onto his.
What's funny is that MY mother has nothing to do with this. My mom is honestly the sweetest most loving person I know and I really look up to her. My mom may have exhibited some signs of the "control issues" I spoke of, but honestly that doesn't make me hate her. Just the same I don't hate Aaron's parents either. My personal experience has nothing to do with the proven psychological issues of a society. My mom either could or could not be included in the group of people I am referring to (neither could the bacon's) however that is an irrelevant point as to why this common issue has surfaced in this particular situation. The fact that there are exceptions has always been taken into consideration. I never said ALL parents who have ever sent their kids were mentally ill and I especially don't believe mine was. However, I do believe this psychological issue is the root cause of tension between parents and their children, which in the worst cases leads to the unethical imprisonment of the child at the parent's request.
You have failed to see the difference between projecting issues and expressing an educated theory. Basically you are telling me you would prefer I don't share my opinions simply because you don't hold the same. It also sounds like you are defending program parents as a whole on the account that a few truly remorseful parents exist. Here's the thing, I have already said that remorse is something that will allow me to set aside my judgment and I encourage everyone else to forgive their parents at some point. HOWEVER I do not agree with the excuse that ALL parents are conned, because as I have seen in many parents that I have worked with, it is their control issues and lack of respect for their kids that cause them to seek out a program. Not to mention that most times this is the main issue that drives their kids to act out in the first place.
Case in point, I know a mother who is at this moment looking for a program (or military school) for her child. The problems in the family mostly stem from the parent's lack of patience, pride and control issues. You might assume at this point that its a 50/50... maybe the kids doing some things that he shouldn't be doing, why else would he be deserving of a program in his loving mother's eyes? This child is 8 years old, intelligent and well behaved there is nothing an 8 year old could possibly be doing to deserve a program. This parent is the problem, not the child. Now fast forward 8 more years of this torment and this kid will most likely have developed the problems this parent needs to see in order to back up her intentions she has always had to GET RID of her child. It's very unfair, but this is often how these stories play out.
BTW to the person who asked how I know about these things, and if I have raised children: YES not only have I worked with children since I got out of the program, but I have studied child care, psychology and social work extensively. I am in fact, currently working on my degree. I have also been a nanny to a family since the birth of both of their children and consider myself VERY involved with raising them. I also believe that I have been very successful in my approach to working with children, and even teens.
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exactly. not everyone in the 90s sent their kids to a private prison. the ones that did were "special" types of people. To most people abducting and imprisoning abother human being is unethical and evil. But abusive people don't understand that. Abusive people are overwhelmed by a darkness they imagine in their kids anger, control issues, self-centeredness. Theses character flaws drove them to have their kids abducted and imprisoned, not ignorence.
This contradicts your post below.
Stop bringing up “loaded language” and the like. I am not a program. If were going to play now-YOU’RE-the-program game, stop telling me to alter my natural way of speaking to fit the parameters you set, just like a program. And stop being so defensive. I've never said every single person who has their kids abducted and imprisoned is mentally ill, abusive or inadequate, but every one of them particpated in act of violence and abuse, and yes, the VAST majority of those who do so are led astray by their personal corruption, not ignorance.
Not all parents who send their kids to programs are incompetent or corrupt.
Not all are innocent in their motives either.
What I've done is pointed out that not everyone fits in single set stereotype. Claiming all parents who send their kids to programs are abusive and acting on their personal corruption is placing them within that stereotype.
so again in case you missed it:
Not all parents are incompetent boobs who are evil blood sucking villians.
Neither are all parents innocent in their motivations to palm kids off an programs.
I can repeat it for you a few times if it helps.
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HOWEVER I do not agree with the excuse that ALL parents are conned.
We both agree.
Pleasure doing business with you.
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Che did you even read my post?... I agree with you NOT ALL parents are abusive and corrupt. However that argument is invalid because no one stated that ALL parents are subject to this judgment. Just in my opinion, a parent who would send their child to a program for smoking weed and lol being seen in the same parking lot as some alleged gang members.
Do you seriously only have one argument, let alone a complete lack of an intelligent one?
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HOWEVER I do not agree with the excuse that ALL parents are conned.
We both agree.
Pleasure doing business with you.
lol ok.
but your still an asshole.
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exactly. not everyone in the 90s sent their kids to a private prison. the ones that did were "special" types of people. To most people abducting and imprisoning abother human being is unethical and evil. But abusive people don't understand that. Abusive people are overwhelmed by a darkness they imagine in their kids anger, control issues, self-centeredness. Theses character flaws drove them to have their kids abducted and imprisoned, not ignorence.
This contradicts your post below.
Stop bringing up “loaded language” and the like. I am not a program. If were going to play now-YOU’RE-the-program game, stop telling me to alter my natural way of speaking to fit the parameters you set, just like a program. And stop being so defensive. I've never said every single person who has their kids abducted and imprisoned is mentally ill, abusive or inadequate, but every one of them particpated in act of violence and abuse, and yes, the VAST majority of those who do so are led astray by their personal corruption, not ignorance.
Not all parents who send their kids to programs are incompetent or corrupt.
Not all are innocent in their motives either.
What I've done is pointed out that not everyone fits in single set stereotype. Claiming all parents who send their kids to programs are abusive and acting on their personal corruption is placing them within that stereotype.
so again in case you missed it:
Not all parents are incompetent boobs who are evil blood sucking villians.
Neither are all parents innocent in their motivations to palm kids off an programs.
I can repeat it for you a few times if it helps.
It doesn't contradict what I am saying. I am saying it’s parents’ abusiveness, mental illness and lack of boundaries that motivate them, not ignorance. Yes, I am making a generality when I say that, and there are exceptions, but this is the rule. The rule applies to parents in the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, and 50s as well as to parents today. To have a human being, your own progeny, abducted, often by other teenagers, and dragged away in the night requires intense abusive tendencies. It takes a pathological sense of dominion over another. The willingness to have those abductors hold that human captive, sometimes for years upon years, in some isolated locale takes, at the very least, a criminal and gross negligence and disinterest in the welfare of the child, and in all likelihood, a unstated desire to punish, hurt, control, or get rid of the kid’s burden at any cost to the kid.
Abusive parents don't walk around saying "i abuse my kid." They truly believe their kid is especially bad. Modern psychology unfortunately supplies them a plethora of acronyms to attach to their kid to better justify their abusive, unrealistic sense their kid is bad. They won’t even say that their kid is “bad” because that would reflect poorly on them; they’ll say their kid is troubled. That way, their demonizing, unrealistic, abusive viewpoint about their kid is socially acceptable, as are their abusive ways. Having a kid abducted and imprisoned is an extension the terrorization, cruelty, and disrespect for privacy that goes along with being an abusive parent
Whether or not a parent has actual physical proof the person the pay to imprison their offspring torments them in addition to the torment they approve of is secondary.
I am not saying that the Bacons are bad people; they have remorse, they understand what they did was wrong, but the tendencies that led them to have their kid abducted and imprisoned…because he got beaten up (talk about blaming the victim!) are dark tendencies and should be recognized as such.
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exactly. not everyone in the 90s sent their kids to a private prison. the ones that did were "special" types of people. To most people abducting and imprisoning abother human being is unethical and evil. But abusive people don't understand that. Abusive people are overwhelmed by a darkness they imagine in their kids anger, control issues, self-centeredness. Theses character flaws drove them to have their kids abducted and imprisoned, not ignorence.
This contradicts your post below.
Stop bringing up “loaded language” and the like. I am not a program. If were going to play now-YOU’RE-the-program game, stop telling me to alter my natural way of speaking to fit the parameters you set, just like a program. And stop being so defensive. I've never said every single person who has their kids abducted and imprisoned is mentally ill, abusive or inadequate, but every one of them particpated in act of violence and abuse, and yes, the VAST majority of those who do so are led astray by their personal corruption, not ignorance.
Not all parents who send their kids to programs are incompetent or corrupt.
Not all are innocent in their motives either.
What I've done is pointed out that not everyone fits in single set stereotype. Claiming all parents who send their kids to programs are abusive and acting on their personal corruption is placing them within that stereotype.
so again in case you missed it:
Not all parents are incompetent boobs who are evil blood sucking villians.
Neither are all parents innocent in their motivations to palm kids off an programs.
I can repeat it for you a few times if it helps.
It doesn't contradict what I am saying. I am saying it’s parents’ abusiveness, mental illness and lack of boundaries that motivate them, not ignorance. Yes, I am making a generality when I say that, and there are exceptions, but this is the rule. The rule applies to parents in the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, and 50s as well as to parents today. To have a human being, your own progeny, abducted, often by other teenagers, and dragged away in the night requires intense abusive tendencies. It takes a pathological sense of dominion over another. The willingness to have those abductors hold that human captive, sometimes for years upon years, in some isolated locale takes, at the very least, a criminal and gross negligence and disinterest in the welfare of the child, and in all likelihood, a unstated desire to punish, hurt, control, or get rid of the kid’s burden at any cost to the kid.
Abusive parents don't walk around saying "i abuse my kid." They truly believe their kid is especially bad. Modern psychology unfortunately supplies them a plethora of acronyms to attach to their kid to better justify their abusive, unrealistic sense their kid is bad. They won’t even say that their kid is “bad” because that would reflect poorly on them; they’ll say their kid is troubled. That way, their demonizing, unrealistic, abusive viewpoint about their kid is socially acceptable, as are their abusive ways. Having a kid abducted and imprisoned is an extension the terrorization, cruelty, and disrespect for privacy that goes along with being an abusive parent
Whether or not a parent has actual physical proof the person the pay to imprison their offspring torments them in addition to the torment they approve of is secondary.
I am not saying that the Bacons are bad people; they have remorse, they understand what they did was wrong, but the tendencies that led them to have their kid abducted and imprisoned…because he got beaten up (talk about blaming the victim!) are dark tendencies and should be recognized as such.
Still talking out of your ass are you? The only tendencies the Bacon's acted on was the one called, "I love my child and therefore i felt compelled to help him," and not some sick fucked up dark psychobabble bullshit you are spewing.
Also.. you are still loading your language. Tsk tsk.
Poor form.
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HOWEVER I do not agree with the excuse that ALL parents are conned.
We both agree.
Pleasure doing business with you.
lol ok.
but your still an asshole.
Better an asshole than an _______________ . i was going to say Idiot, but I'll let you fill in the blank with whatever suits your fancy. i just don't have it in me to crush your illusions.
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So anyway, I'd probably rather watch some BAD PORN than watch that movie.
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So anyway, I'd probably rather watch some BAD PORN than watch that movie.
I hear ya- what survivor in their right mind would wanna watch a crappy movie based on what they went through in real life??
No thanks..... I'll pass.... :dose: ::puke::
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HOWEVER I do not agree with the excuse that ALL parents are conned.
We both agree.
Pleasure doing business with you.
lol ok.
but your still an asshole.
Better an asshole than an _______________ . i was going to say Idiot, but I'll let you fill in the blank with whatever suits your fancy. i just don't have it in me to crush your illusions.
The funniest thing about this statement is that you are actually implying that I am less intelligent than you. Which I'm not even going to get into your past employment or education history lol. But I challenge you to consider one thing. When a parent "loves" their child, and through their infinite wisdom diagnose their child as "In need of help" do they seek out a professional, safe practicing, state licensed program? or do they just go with the first private program that agrees to take their child without a preliminary diagnosis? These parents are so sure that they are right about how screwed up their kids are they will ship their kids out to the first place that agrees with them before they (the program) have even seen the child. The fact that none of these programs have a proper admissions process, boast credentials or a system designed to fit the needs of all the kids' individual problems would be more than enough for me to realize that this could potentially be bad placement for a child. Here's what I mean, If Mr and Mrs Bacon thought their son truly had a drug problem ( ::) ) then they should have been looking for a rehab not a wilderness program. But instead these parents find a school that just lists any number of adolescent problems and say that their "tough love" system can cure them all. I'm sorry but that sounds just about as legit as a TJ hooker. Unfortunately these private torture camps are the only "programs" that are willing to kidnap the child, hold him against his will and treat him so badly that he will come home grateful. And contrary to popular belief this is EXACTLY what these parents are looking for, not "help" out of "love". Unfortunately in Aaron Bacon's case he did not come home grateful, He did not come home at all.
I may have sympathy for Mr and Mrs Bacon, they lost a child and they partially have themselves to blame for that, living with that guilt must tear them apart everyday, and for that I can only wish them solace. Lets hope they don't read this. But until the Bacon's choose to acknowledge the unnecessary hysteria that drove them to even look for a program for their kids, and furthermore explain to parents that things like weed smoking is normal teenage behavior, I wont discount my theory. I don't doubt that these parents love their children, I think pretty much all parents love their children, but I don't think it is "love" that these parents are acting out of when they seek out a program.
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er
So anyway, I'd probably rather watch some BAD PORN than watch that movie.
I hear ya- what survivor in their right mind would wanna watch a crappy movie based on what they went through in real life??
No thanks..... I'll pass.... :dose: ::puke::
"Crappy" is the operative word.
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If Mr and Mrs Bacon thought their son truly had a drug problem ( ::) ) then they should have been looking for a rehab not a wilderness program.
Here's one hook via which a lot of these programs grab gullible parents: rehab looks bad on a kid's record; wilderness does not. So, by trying to look a few years down the road, trying to make a decision with the least apparent negative impact on their kid's record, parents fall into the program trap.
I doubt that Aaron's parents thought he had a serious enough "drug problem" to warrant a full-fledged rehab. Rather, I think they were struggling with what they perceived to be a "Gateway" type situation.
This is precisely the type of ambiguous circumstance that program marketers prey upon. Here is where the dire premonition that your kid will end up deadinsaneorinjail if you don't sign him up right now ASAP, packs the hardest punch.
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I may have sympathy for Mr and Mrs Bacon, they lost a child and they blame themselves for that every single day., living with that guilt must tear them apart everyday, and for that I can only wish them solace. Lets hope they don't read this, but I have the sickening feeling that they already have or soon will because people like the Bacons regularly read fornits and forums like it. The Bacon's acknowledge the unnecessary hysteria that drove them to even look for a program for their kids, and furthermore explain to parents that these programs kill people like their own son, I wont discount my theory, but one day I'll even go the distance and acknowledge that it wasn't smoking dope alone that scared the Bacons into looking for a wilderness program. But I will be honest and say that my theories are really opinions fueled by my own experiences. So do take them with a pinch of salt. I don't doubt that these parents love their children, I think pretty much all parents love their children.
Fixed it for you. Please keep replying because your massive wall o' texts are hilarious to read in the way you continuously contradict yourself about every other sentence.
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So anyway, I'd probably rather watch some BAD PORN than watch that movie.
I hear ya- what survivor in their right mind would wanna watch a crappy movie based on what they went through in real life??
No thanks..... I'll pass.... :dose: ::puke::
:nods:
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I may have sympathy for Mr and Mrs Bacon, they lost a child and they blame themselves for that every single day., living with that guilt must tear them apart everyday, and for that I can only wish them solace. Lets hope they don't read this, but I have the sickening feeling that they already have or soon will because people like the Bacons regularly read fornits and forums like it. The Bacon's acknowledge the unnecessary hysteria that drove them to even look for a program for their kids, and furthermore explain to parents that these programs kill people like their own son, I wont discount my theory, but one day I'll even go the distance and acknowledge that it wasn't smoking dope alone that scared the Bacons into looking for a wilderness program. But I will be honest and say that my theories are really opinions fueled by my own experiences. So do take them with a pinch of salt. I don't doubt that these parents love their children, I think pretty much all parents love their children.
Fixed it for you. Please keep replying because your massive wall o' texts are hilarious to read in the way you continuously contradict yourself about every other sentence.
You know, me and this femenon person give our theories on the matter, based on actually having read the books about the subject, unlike you. And, uh, yeah our theories are also based on our own experience; first hand "field experience" you could call it. We have expereinced parents who put their kids away in the 90s, discounting your theory that if the abduction took place in the 90s then the act didn't stem from abusive motivations. We have experienced parents who had their kids abducted and imprisoned with a profile that matches Aaron, and based on that, the Bacon's pre-program behavior, how they treated their other kids, their sense of their act now we have ideas about why they behaved as they did. Ultimately, at the very least, your theory that they made did what they did "out of love" is no less a theory than ours.
In response to our posts all you do is say "no youre wrong" and add an insult. You are kind of rude. I also read where you tell the mother whose kid died in Youth Care to stop whining and making it all about her to her face. I'm not sure where your sensitvity arises from, all of a sudden. Are you sure you aren't just "trolling" here? Makes me think.
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Because we all know that no one ever changes their minds. Yep.. mhhmmm..
First of all you reading a book or three hardly makes you an expert on the motivations of two people or a group of people you've never met. And for reference, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying you are chock full of shit.
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Because we all know that no one ever changes their minds. Yep.. mhhmmm..
First of all you reading a book or three hardly makes you an expert on the motivations of two people or a group of people you've never met. And for reference, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying you are chock full of shit.
ok. this isn't going to go anywhere. But I'm sure you realize that by your rationale because you haven't met these people either your feeling they had him abducted out of love, not control, boundary or abuse issues makes you "chock full of shit" too.
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You know, me and this femenon person give our theories on the matter, based on actually having read the books about the subject, unlike you. And, uh, yeah our theories are also based on our own experience; first hand "field experience" you could call it. We have expereinced parents who put their kids away in the 90s, discounting your theory that if the abduction took place in the 90s then the act didn't stem from abusive motivations. We have experienced parents who had their kids abducted and imprisoned with a profile that matches Aaron, and based on that, the Bacon's pre-program behavior, how they treated their other kids, their sense of their act now we have ideas about why they behaved as they did. Ultimately, at the very least, your theory that they made did what they did "out of love" is no less a theory than ours.
In response to our posts all you do is say "no youre wrong" and add an insult. You are kind of rude. I also read where you tell the mother whose kid died in Youth Care to stop whining and making it all about her to her face. I'm not sure where your sensitvity arises from, all of a sudden. Are you sure you aren't just "trolling" here? Makes me think.
We're listening - don't let 1 person stop you. Bonafide contributions are the essence of fornits.
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I doubt that Aaron's parents thought he had a serious enough "drug problem" to warrant a full-fledged rehab. Rather, I think they were struggling with what they perceived to be a "Gateway" type situation.
Exactly. They perceived danger that wasn't necessarily there. Now would they have made the same decision if they were educated to know that pot is not a gateway drug (in most cases a terminus)? Would they have made the same decision if the fear wasn't there?
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I doubt that Aaron's parents thought he had a serious enough "drug problem" to warrant a full-fledged rehab. Rather, I think they were struggling with what they perceived to be a "Gateway" type situation.
Exactly. They perceived danger that wasn't necessarily there. Now would they have made the same decision if they were educated to know that pot is not a gateway drug (in most cases a terminus)? Would they have made the same decision if the fear wasn't there?
Pot? Oh, you mean "bammy" or "funk" that's the "slang" drug users are using nowadays to "project thier mastery of the subject matter." You know, drug users are always looking to project their "mastery" of drug using.
From gatehouse Academy website:
"Slang is a prevalent part of drug culture: It’s a form of self expression, method for discreet communication and way for drug users to project their mastery in the subject area. Street terms for drugs are often more relevant than medical terminology; words that don’t tend to roll off the tongue as smoothly, like diacetylmorphine and desoxyephedrine, aren’t popular among groups actually using the substances. Interpreting the way in which drug users converse may provide a better understanding of their lifestyles. The following is a condensed list of popular drugs and their corresponding slang terms, many of which come from the Indiana Prevention Resource Center:
Marijuana: Bammy, funk
Smoke marijuana: Blow a stick, blast a roach
Heroin: Dope, smack, skag
Inject heroin: Dip and dab
Smoke heroin: Chase the tiger
Heroin and cocaine mixture: Speedball, Belushi
Cocaine: Candycaine, weasel dust
Addicted to cocaine: Flaky
Inhale cocaine: Blow blue
Crack cocaine: Cat’s pee, crackers
Crack: Apple jacks
Smoke crack: Blast
Methamphetamine: Crystal, crank, tweek
Injecting methamphetamine: Bangin’ it in"
did people start calling pot "bammy" and forget to text me about that? This is gonna cause some confusion at my next "blow a stick" meeting.
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Crack: Apple jacks
how in the hell did they manage this one? I'm not going to ever be able to eat Apple Jacks ever again without laughing.
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Crack: Apple jacks
how in the hell did they manage this one? I'm not going to ever be able to eat Apple Jacks ever again without laughing.
crack --> cracker jacks --> apple jacks
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In response to our posts all you do is say "no youre wrong" and add an insult. You are kind of rude. I also read where you tell the mother whose kid died in Youth Care to stop whining and making it all about her and her face(Bahahaha haaaa). I'm not sure where your sensitvity arises from, all of a sudden. Are you sure you aren't just "trolling" here? Makes me think.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
.
.
.
.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Um.... Im surprised you didnt know....?.....
Che is the king of trolls.... (self proclaimed anyway... huh u fuktard?)
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Back in 1994 that information wasn't there. Most of you seem to have forgotten what things were like in 1994. That is ok it was 14 or so years ago. You've all forgotten the bloodbath that was going on all over California with the Crips and the Bloods. Yall forgotten the crack wars of the urban ghettos. People were scared during those days and they had a decent enough reason to be scared.
I just can't get over this sociological description of the state of nation in 1994. lol Yes. It was all crack wars and urban ghettos! I can't believe I'm still alive with all those Crips and Bloods everywhere. I remember they would sneak into your house and hide your socks then when you woke up the next morning we were like, ok, where are my socks? And you knew the Crips had taken them. We were all so scared and we had decent enough reason to be scared!
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I doubt that Aaron's parents thought he had a serious enough "drug problem" to warrant a full-fledged rehab. Rather, I think they were struggling with what they perceived to be a "Gateway" type situation.
Exactly. They perceived danger that wasn't necessarily there. Now would they have made the same decision if they were educated to know that pot is not a gateway drug (in most cases a terminus)? Would they have made the same decision if the fear wasn't there?
Pot? Oh, you mean "bammy" or "funk" that's the "slang" drug users are using nowadays to "project thier mastery of the subject matter." You know, drug users are always looking to project their "mastery" of drug using.
From gatehouse Academy website:
"Slang is a prevalent part of drug culture: It’s a form of self expression, method for discreet communication and way for drug users to project their mastery in the subject area. Street terms for drugs are often more relevant than medical terminology; words that don’t tend to roll off the tongue as smoothly, like diacetylmorphine and desoxyephedrine, aren’t popular among groups actually using the substances. Interpreting the way in which drug users converse may provide a better understanding of their lifestyles. The following is a condensed list of popular drugs and their corresponding slang terms, many of which come from the Indiana Prevention Resource Center:
Marijuana: Bammy, funk
Smoke marijuana: Blow a stick, blast a roach
Heroin: Dope, smack, skag
Inject heroin: Dip and dab
Smoke heroin: Chase the tiger
Heroin and cocaine mixture: Speedball, Belushi
Cocaine: Candycaine, weasel dust
Addicted to cocaine: Flaky
Inhale cocaine: Blow blue
Crack cocaine: Cat’s pee, crackers
Crack: Apple jacks
Smoke crack: Blast
Methamphetamine: Crystal, crank, tweek
Injecting methamphetamine: Bangin’ it in"
did people start calling pot "bammy" and forget to text me about that? This is gonna cause some confusion at my next "blow a stick" meeting.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :rofl: :roflmao:
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Back in 1994 that information wasn't there. Most of you seem to have forgotten what things were like in 1994. That is ok it was 14 or so years ago. You've all forgotten the bloodbath that was going on all over California with the Crips and the Bloods. Yall forgotten the crack wars of the urban ghettos. People were scared during those days and they had a decent enough reason to be scared.
I just can't get over this sociological description of the state of nation in 1994. lol Yes. It was all crack wars and urban ghettos! I can't believe I'm still alive with all those Crips and Bloods everywhere. I remember they would sneak into your house and hide your socks then when you woke up the next morning we were like, ok, where are my socks? And you knew the Crips had taken them. We were all so scared and we had decent enough reason to be scared!
:tup: :rofl: :roflmao: :rasta: :bs: :timeout: :nods: :notworthy: :deal:
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Back in 1994 that information wasn't there. Most of you seem to have forgotten what things were like in 1994. That is ok it was 14 or so years ago. You've all forgotten the bloodbath that was going on all over California with the Crips and the Bloods. Yall forgotten the crack wars of the urban ghettos. People were scared during those days and they had a decent enough reason to be scared.
I just can't get over this sociological description of the state of nation in 1994. lol Yes. It was all crack wars and urban ghettos! I can't believe I'm still alive with all those Crips and Bloods everywhere. I remember they would sneak into your house and hide your socks then when you woke up the next morning we were like, ok, where are my socks? And you knew the Crips had taken them. We were all so scared and we had decent enough reason to be scared!
:tup: :rofl: :roflmao: :rasta: :bs: :timeout: :nods: :notworthy: :deal:
I wasnt aware that had changed. lol I'm pretty sure Crips are still hiding my socks. and I am frightened.
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Back in 1994 that information wasn't there. Most of you seem to have forgotten what things were like in 1994. That is ok it was 14 or so years ago. You've all forgotten the bloodbath that was going on all over California with the Crips and the Bloods. Yall forgotten the crack wars of the urban ghettos. People were scared during those days and they had a decent enough reason to be scared.
I just can't get over this sociological description of the state of nation in 1994. lol Yes. It was all crack wars and urban ghettos! I can't believe I'm still alive with all those Crips and Bloods everywhere. I remember they would sneak into your house and hide your socks then when you woke up the next morning we were like, ok, where are my socks? And you knew the Crips had taken them. We were all so scared and we had decent enough reason to be scared!
:tup: :rofl: :roflmao: :rasta: :bs: :timeout: :nods: :notworthy: :deal:
I wasnt aware that had changed. lol I'm pretty sure Crips are still hiding my socks. and I am frightened.
It was horrible back in the days of 1994! You'd be watching "My So Called Life" absolutely terrified, because any minute a Crip or Blood could break into your house and force you to smoke Crack! The Crack Wars were so bad we all started wearing Doc Martins and Flannel as camouflage. We were all so scared during those days and we had decent enough reason to be scared!
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:feedtrolls: :feedtrolls: :feedtrolls: :feedtrolls: :feedtrolls: :feedtrolls: :feedtrolls:
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This thread is exactly why this whole forum looks like a bunch of freaks with nothing better to do with their time!
All you have to do is watch that video to know that that man loved his son!
Dig deep in your pathetic little teeny weeny hearts and find some compassion, If they didn't love their son they would have just thrown his ass out to make the mess of his life that he was determined to do if left to stay of the destructive path he was on! Do you NOT see all the drug addicts and men spending their whole lives in prison for things they did when they were young adults and high on drugs! Or what about the drugs overdoses and gangs. Come on people! If you were in a situation that the Bacon's were in you would soon find out that you either find a decent place to keep your son off the streets and away from drugs, or you watch him kill himself. The problem is, these PLACES are the only things available for kids under the age of 18! I know all too well. But I HAD NO IDEA THE PLACE I SENT MY SON TO WAS A FRIGGIN CULT! A place where they took every one of my sons human rights away, took his DIGNITY and his right to free speech. Made him sing baby songs or be put in solitary confinement.
Locked him a bedroom with nothing more than a journal to write in that had locks and alarms on doors and windows! If he was being abused or molested or any number of different abuses that can be done to a child, he COULD NOT EVER CALL ME TO TELL ME he was being hurt! You think I willingly signed him up for that???? I thank god every day that I found out after only 4 days and pulled him out! Most parents would if they found the information before they were brainwashed!
Call me what you want, but I HAD NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THESE KIND OF PLACES and I spend a lot of time on the computer.
No wonder people won't listen to you. You come off as haters and complete idiots.
You are going go back and forth with your ridiculous arguments like high school students and you look ridiculous!
You know something....
I gave birth to this boy. I love him more than anything else. I watched my beautiful boy turn into a very angry young man and turning to drugs. What happened? Could it be hormones or just a need to fit in? Could it be his Dad was absent most of his life? I don't know, All I wanted to do was help him. He needed my help! And because I love him more than anything else, I didn't throw him out, I looked for help. These people LIED to me. They did not tell me they were going to brainwash my child! They didn't tell me they were going to strip him of all dignity and human rights! I would never have signed up for that!
That's it..I'm done with fornits. I want to be taken seriously when I stand in front of a judge after filing charges against that horrible place. Not looked at like "one of those fornits!"
buh bye..have fun cutting each other up.
Well, to be accurate, the American govt. took away your son's rights by not enforcing the rights of youth. Were they to start enforcing them, YOU would be punished for YOUR violation of his rights by having him abducted and imprisoned, or did your son go willingly for what he thought was treatment? If not YOU stripped him of his dignity, YOU abused him. No one is "kept safe" by being stored in a privately funded prison. People are quite dangerously, potentially fatally, psychologically and mentally traumatized by that. Were Elizabeth Fritzl and her children kept safe by being stored in a privately funded prison? What gives you anymore right to imprison your kid anymore than Mr. Fritzel? Why do you think your holding your son captive is any more ethical or less traumatizing for him than for the Fritzl kids?
And there is PLENTY of help available for kids. The problem is that as an incompetent, inadequate, idiotic, and in all probability abusive, domineering and mentally ill guardian, you ignored or never investigated it.
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Ah... there are so many layers to fornits, kinda like an onion, no? :seg: ::evil::
@Bellavita: Since fornits is largely unmoderated by design, there is a fair amount of flotsam that gets in, as well as ribald, perverted, and truly ill and oft times hilarious gallows humor as well. There are also trolls from the industry, e.g., people associated with the very program you yanked your son from, who come on and try to stir up trouble from time to time. And there are survivors who -- damaged from their time, not to mention too many years of ineffective or non-existent treatment and the damage that wreaks on a soul -- sometimes roil from the punches and lash out a bit more than is palatable to some...
Seriously, you think four days is bad? Try a couple years, or even four or five years for some of us... In some cases, our own families still do not believe what we went through; they still buy the program speak. Do ya think that might qualify someone to get just a lil bit jaded, if not crazed by it all?
Ya just gotta learn to step over certain posts if they bother you, and enjoy and/or make good use of your time in the fornits biker bar for all its prescient, insightful, invaluable, and yes, most fetid glory!
Here's to ya anyway, Happy New Year! :cheers:
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This thread is exactly why this whole forum looks like a bunch of freaks with nothing better to do with their time!
All you have to do is watch that video to know that that man loved his son!
Dig deep in your pathetic little teeny weeny hearts and find some compassion, If they didn't love their son they would have just thrown his ass out to make the mess of his life that he was determined to do if left to stay of the destructive path he was on! Do you NOT see all the drug addicts and men spending their whole lives in prison for things they did when they were young adults and high on drugs! Or what about the drugs overdoses and gangs. Come on people! If you were in a situation that the Bacon's were in you would soon find out that you either find a decent place to keep your son off the streets and away from drugs, or you watch him kill himself. The problem is, these PLACES are the only things available for kids under the age of 18! I know all too well. But I HAD NO IDEA THE PLACE I SENT MY SON TO WAS A FRIGGIN CULT! A place where they took every one of my sons human rights away, took his DIGNITY and his right to free speech. Made him sing baby songs or be put in solitary confinement.
Locked him a bedroom with nothing more than a journal to write in that had locks and alarms on doors and windows! If he was being abused or molested or any number of different abuses that can be done to a child, he COULD NOT EVER CALL ME TO TELL ME he was being hurt! You think I willingly signed him up for that???? I thank god every day that I found out after only 4 days and pulled him out! Most parents would if they found the information before they were brainwashed!
Call me what you want, but I HAD NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THESE KIND OF PLACES and I spend a lot of time on the computer.
No wonder people won't listen to you. You come off as haters and complete idiots.
You are going go back and forth with your ridiculous arguments like high school students and you look ridiculous!
You know something....
I gave birth to this boy. I love him more than anything else. I watched my beautiful boy turn into a very angry young man and turning to drugs. What happened? Could it be hormones or just a need to fit in? Could it be his Dad was absent most of his life? I don't know, All I wanted to do was help him. He needed my help! And because I love him more than anything else, I didn't throw him out, I looked for help. These people LIED to me. They did not tell me they were going to brainwash my child! They didn't tell me they were going to strip him of all dignity and human rights! I would never have signed up for that!
That's it..I'm done with fornits. I want to be taken seriously when I stand in front of a judge after filing charges against that horrible place. Not looked at like "one of those fornits!"
buh bye..have fun cutting each other up.
Well, to be accurate, the American govt. took away your son's rights by not enforcing the rights of youth. Were they to start enforcing them, YOU would be punished for YOUR violation of his rights by having him abducted and imprisoned, or did your son go willingly for what he thought was treatment? If not YOU stripped him of his dignity, YOU abused him. No one is "kept safe" by being stored in a privately funded prison. People are quite dangerously, potentially fatally, psychologically and mentally traumatized by that. Were Elizabeth Fritzl and her children kept safe by being stored in a privately funded prison? What gives you anymore right to imprison your kid anymore than Mr. Fritzel? Why do you think your holding your son captive is any more ethical or less traumatizing for him than for the Fritzl kids?
And there is PLENTY of help available for kids. The problem is that as an incompetent, inadequate, idiotic, and in all probability abusive, domineering and mentally ill guardian, you ignored or never investigated it.
I'm not going to play along with your ridiculous, childish, and from the looks of it, Incessant and inconsequential babble.
I came here to help stop this abuse. There has been horrible injustices done to thousands of children and I'm just as outraged about it as the rest of you. I'm not going to sit on this forum and defend myself. I'm going to take action. Like it or not.
Why don't you show your face and fight like the big man or woman you are playing. You're a coward. Hide behind your guest name and attack other people ..that's really accomplishing a lot isn't it?
Sit there and hate all you want ..you look like a damn fool.
Can someone tell me how to delete my account .. Or better yet...can someone just boot me the hell outta here?
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[
I'm not going to play along with your ridiculous, childish babble.
Why don't you show your face and fight like the big man or woman you are playing.
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[
I'm not going to play along with your ridiculous, childish babble.
Why don't you show your face and fight like the big man or woman you are playing.
^^^ that there some's irony.
Bella, why don't you reread your posts, think it over, and reflect over maybe "coming accross" as something of a "hater" and "immature" yourself.
Or is calling an community of surviors of torture and govermental human rights violations beyond your wildest nightmares dumb losers the mature, loving way we introduce ourselves nowadays?
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I agree with fem and think che's ptsd was triggered. anyway fem you kept yr cool and is not easy to do round here especially when your ptsd has been triggered...more evidence of the damage done by these programs...I watched NG's mini trailer and could not stop crying myself..it is hard to revisit and when we fight each other it's just like in the program...it's really sooooooooooooooooo sad.
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If they didn't love their son they would have just thrown his ass out to make the mess of his life that he was determined to do if left to stay of the destructive path he was on! Do you NOT see all the drug addicts and men spending their whole lives in prison for things they did when they were young adults and high on drugs! Or what about the drugs overdoses and gangs. Come on people! If you were in a situation that the Bacon's were in you would soon find out that you either find a decent place to keep your son off the streets and away from drugs, or you watch him kill himself. The problem is, these PLACES are the only things available for kids under the age of 18! I know all too well.
No wonder people won't listen to you. You come off as haters and complete idiots.
You are going go back and forth with your ridiculous arguments like high school students and you look ridiculous!
Well, to be accurate, the American govt. took away your son's rights by not enforcing the rights of youth. Were they to start enforcing them, YOU would be punished for YOUR violation of his rights by having him abducted and imprisoned, No one is "kept safe" by being stored in a privately funded prison.
You're a coward. Hide behind your guest name and attack other people ..that's really accomplishing a lot isn't it?
Sit there and hate all you want ..you look like a damn fool.
Darling... darling, darling.
Where does your hate for US come from?... regardless if we have decided to argue on a site that was created for US to do as we please, why do you feel it necessary to bash on Survivors on OUR forum? It sounds much more to me, (and this is reference from the first paragraph I quoted you) that you are simply threatened and afraid of youth and therefore find it necessary to come here to insult us.
You may be in one way or another against the program, but from the looks of your attitude you are still the kind of parent that is the root of the reason these programs exist, and it isn't because you are out-rightly abusive, its your mind state, your illogical fear of youth and your control issues. You may love your son, but the odds are you HATE his adolescence. That hate is what drove you here to insult us, and in doing so you have only become the troll of which you claim to look down upon. WE don't come here to argue, we come here to share our ideas, opinions and information, its only people like you with an axe to grind that come here to fight. Fornits is an awesome site... its FREE in the real sense of the word. No ones going to censor you, come after you or abuse you because you share your opinion and Im sorry if the freedom that us young adults enjoy rubs you the wrong way but I believe its something we deserve after having been locked up and tortured for years upon years.
Bellavita, I'm glad to have a hot headed mom like you here, you help make things interesting because we SO enjoy proving you wrong. The sad part is that its all too easy because all you need is a healthy dose of reality and a little bit of logical thinking to do so. I honestly believe you should take yourself out of the "controlling mother" role for a second and realize this one statement will always be true, in every single situation.
No one is "kept safe" by being stored in a privately funded prison.
Then maybe you will realize that our opinions about program parents come from a very logical place. You should also know that most of us, have had FAR MORE experience than you with these programs, and the kids and parents involved to have developed a pretty well proved theory. I'm sorry to discount your 4 day horrifying experience and your "oh so unique" adolescent experience with your son, but weve seen it too many times before to just take your word for it. You have simply been scammed by the media, the media that tells you to be afraid of drugs and teen criminals when the fact is that only one in hundreds of thousands of teens is actually a threat to themselves or their families, and those kids, deserve to GET THEMSELVES locked up. The men who are in prison now, earned their way there by either doing what it took to survive in their neighborhood or they are just sickos that need to be locked up in order to keep US safe. You cant save your son from prison if hes on his way, either he needs to be there or he will mature on his own before he will EVER get that far. The fear you have that his life was "heading down that path" is only a figment of your delusional thinking, it has nothing to do with his ability to survive and mature. By sending him to a program you are essentially expressing your distrust for his intelligence and ability to learn and grow into a man on his own. Men don't need their mommy's to help them survive, they need to learn on their own or they will grow up to be soft and unable to fend for themselves in this cut throat world. Think hes bad now... keep floating his boat and watch he will still be at home at 35. You are doing way more psychological damage by trying to rescue him from himself than the real world ever could.
However, best wishes to you and yours, for their sake I hope you finally get it.
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I must also add... you obviously don't know the story about Aaron bacon because he was NOT on the road to anywhere besides a good college and a successful career. He was a good, smart kid who smoked some weed once in a while. That is NOT the road to prison and the fact that you would assume so just completely proves my theory... again.
As well, id like to point out that you are posting under a guest name as well... you don't have an account and this name, Bellavita isn't exactly a tell of who you are. And as you mentioned you prefer to not have what you say held against you in court, so why would you bash on someone who preferred to remain anonymous? Are you being purposefully contradictive or are you really that dumb?
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As well, id like to point out that you are posting under a guest name as well... you don't have an account and this name, Bellavita isn't exactly a tell of who you are.
She did have an account. She asked me to delete it and I did as requested. All her posts are thus attributed to guests now.
I would suggest leaving it. She isn't reading Fornits anymore, anyway. Was the criticism of Aaron Bacon's parents on this thread inappropriate, even downright cruel? I think it was. What's happened has happened. I think the Bacons know where they made mistakes. I'd like to see half the people on this thread say the shit they said here to Robert Bacon's face (http://http://troubled-teen-industry.com/video/40-general/66-gao-boot-camp-hearing-robert-bacon).
Furthermore, Bellavita is a new parent to fornits who just pulled her kid out of a program and, guess what, realizes she made a mistake and feels bad enough as it is... Can you imagine what it must feel like to suddenly find out you sent your kid to an abusive place when you thought it was going to be safe. And she gets attacked by us? I'm sure she feels really supported in her decision to pull her son. It's no wonder most parents don't stick around here too long, even when they do the right thing. I can't force anybody here to be nice to parents but... fuck! You get more FAR more with honey than vinegar. "Program Parent Disorder" is not a progressive and incurable disease. People can and do change their minds, but they're far less likely to even listen at all if you insult or talk down to them (not that everybody isn't guilty of this at some points in time, self included).
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As well, id like to point out that you are posting under a guest name as well... you don't have an account and this name, Bellavita isn't exactly a tell of who you are.
She did have an account. She asked me to delete it and I did as requested. All her posts are thus attributed to guests now.
I would suggest leaving it. She isn't reading Fornits anymore, anyway. Was the criticism of Aaron Bacon's parents on this thread inappropriate, even downright cruel? I think it was. What's happened has happened. I think the Bacons know where they made mistakes. I'd like to see half the people on this thread say the shit they said here to Robert Bacon's face (http://http://troubled-teen-industry.com/video/40-general/66-gao-boot-camp-hearing-robert-bacon).
Furthermore, Bellavita is a new parent to fornits who just pulled her kid out of a program and, guess what, realizes she made a mistake and feels bad enough as it is... Can you imagine what it must feel like to suddenly find out you sent your kid to an abusive place when you thought it was going to be safe. And she gets attacked by us? I'm sure she feels really supported in her decision to pull her son. It's no wonder most parents don't stick around here too long, even when they do the right thing. I can't force anybody here to be nice to parents but... fuck! You get more FAR more with honey than vinegar. "Program Parent Disorder" is not a progressive and incurable disease. People can and do change their minds, but they're far less likely to even listen at all if you insult or talk down to them (not that everybody isn't guilty of this at some points in time, self included).
P.P.D, He-he. That should go into the D.S.M.
Can anything you say really be held against you in court here? Even anonymously? Even if it doesn't have to do with the case, persee, as Bella's posts calling us freaks didn't specifically have to do with her case?
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As well, id like to point out that you are posting under a guest name as well... you don't have an account and this name, Bellavita isn't exactly a tell of who you are.
She did have an account. She asked me to delete it and I did as requested. All her posts are thus attributed to guests now.
I would suggest leaving it. She isn't reading Fornits anymore, anyway. Was the criticism of Aaron Bacon's parents on this thread inappropriate, even downright cruel? I think it was. What's happened has happened. I think the Bacons know where they made mistakes. I'd like to see half the people on this thread say the shit they said here to Robert Bacon's face (http://http://troubled-teen-industry.com/video/40-general/66-gao-boot-camp-hearing-robert-bacon).
Furthermore, Bellavita is a new parent to fornits who just pulled her kid out of a program and, guess what, realizes she made a mistake and feels bad enough as it is... Can you imagine what it must feel like to suddenly find out you sent your kid to an abusive place when you thought it was going to be safe. And she gets attacked by us? I'm sure she feels really supported in her decision to pull her son. It's no wonder most parents don't stick around here too long, even when they do the right thing. I can't force anybody here to be nice to parents but... fuck! You get more FAR more with honey than vinegar. "Program Parent Disorder" is not a progressive and incurable disease. People can and do change their minds, but they're far less likely to even listen at all if you insult or talk down to them (not that everybody isn't guilty of this at some points in time, self included).
I would never say some of the things i've said here to the guy's face. Having a coversation with someone and about someone are a little different. Maybe no one should ever talk about the pps' who kids die and speak out afterwards...
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As well, id like to point out that you are posting under a guest name as well... you don't have an account and this name, Bellavita isn't exactly a tell of who you are.
She did have an account. She asked me to delete it and I did as requested. All her posts are thus attributed to guests now.
I would suggest leaving it. She isn't reading Fornits anymore, anyway. Was the criticism of Aaron Bacon's parents on this thread inappropriate, even downright cruel? I think it was. What's happened has happened. I think the Bacons know where they made mistakes. I'd like to see half the people on this thread say the shit they said here to Robert Bacon's face (http://http://troubled-teen-industry.com/video/40-general/66-gao-boot-camp-hearing-robert-bacon).
Furthermore, Bellavita is a new parent to fornits who just pulled her kid out of a program and, guess what, realizes she made a mistake and feels bad enough as it is... Can you imagine what it must feel like to suddenly find out you sent your kid to an abusive place when you thought it was going to be safe. And she gets attacked by us? I'm sure she feels really supported in her decision to pull her son. It's no wonder most parents don't stick around here too long, even when they do the right thing. I can't force anybody here to be nice to parents but... fuck! You get more FAR more with honey than vinegar. "Program Parent Disorder" is not a progressive and incurable disease. People can and do change their minds, but they're far less likely to even listen at all if you insult or talk down to them (not that everybody isn't guilty of this at some points in time, self included).
From what I can tell, this woman's post was chalked full of blame, insult and hate, and all toward US. Why would I even find reason to be accepting of her, I may be diplomatic with a slight twinge of attitude but I am simply pointing out the truth here. Why are you defending her Psy? Can you not see that I simply pointed out how her general mind state is the same that MANY MANY other parents have, and that mind state is was is driving them to have their children locked up. You may be one of those kids who totally forgave their parents, but as much as my mom is wonderful and awesome I will believe until the day I die that we was overreacting to my adolescent behavior. That is the only point I am trying to get across to her and if this Bellavita woman doesnt come back, so what, but what about the other program parents who decide to show up? I think they deserve a dose of reality as well. I know you think its counter productive but it is my STRONG opinion that if these parents don't WAKE THE FUCK UP we will NEVER win against the troubled teen industry.
Perfect example: do you blame the druggie or the drug dealer... You can lock up the drug dealers but if the druggie is still a druggie they will still be driven to find the drugs from another drug dealer. ALL parents I have spoken to weather for or against the program (that they have experience with) will tell me that there is a dire need for these private prisons and that there ARE some good ones out there. Well, unfortunately there are so few that I haven't even heard of ONE and unless we can help these parents realize that they NEED to just raise their kids come hell or high water then we will always have a program to fight because the program will always be in demand.
It makes me sick how sending your kid off to military school or a program or a mental hospital or rehab has become such a "trend" in the last 20 years. The problem is only partially with the program that abuses kids, the blame SHOULD be on the parents who think they don't have to raise their kids and they can just pay to get them out of their lives. I have never said that a parent who wised up and pulled their kid wasn't an appreciated member of this group, I have simply called upon their judgment to send their kid in the first place as an issue that NEEDS to be addressed! If they aren't willing to talk about it than fine, I highly doubt that coming here and insulting the forum members is any more productive than a good debate. I just hope at some point we will have a parent come to fornits, tell their story and listen to our opinions about the fact that it is ILLOGICAL to think that locking a kid up in a private prison is the way to go, and hopefully change their mind state a little bit.
What I don't understand is the discrepancy in your beliefs. You think that addiction is a choice and getting help for that should only be the choice of the addict, however you defend a parent who is perpetually delusional about their child's "problems" as much to say that being "headed down that path" is enough to lock a kid up?... She may have changed her mind about the program, but she HAS NOT changed the root of the reason she decided to imprison her child, and until that belief changes, her son is in danger of being sent off to another private hell, sooner or later. Until these parents start to change their misconceptions about teenagers the programs will always exist and I will always be the one to stand up and challenge the delusional thinking that has for many years resulted in the abuse and utter LIFE FUCKING of our previous, present and forthcoming generations. Even if I am the only one. So Psy you can argue for the sake of each individual parent all you want, you can tell me that I'm wasting my time if that argument is the most valid one you have but really this all comes down to the fact that I believe there is more abuse going on than meets the eye and I am not afraid or guilted into not saying so. Disagree with me all you want, I strongly welcome any intelligent challenges to my theory, but don't tell me not to speak my mind.
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You don't wake people up by hitting them over the head with a fucking frying pan repeatedly. No... lol. That is likely to have the complete opposite effect (as you see, she has left fornits). Dose of reality is fine. Overdose... not so good. What many surviors don't realize, probably because we learned how to confront so well in program, is that parents are very very fragile and to a certain extent you have to coddle them, go slow, and bite your tongue. You are smart enough to get your point across without asking "are you really that dumb?" and so on and so forth. That turns the parents off, they stop listening, and you lose right then and there. If little Johnny is still at risk for being sent to a program, the parent sure isn't going to come back and ask you for advice.
Asking a question like "how do you know for sure that X kid was definitively on his way to deadinsaneinjail? Can you tell the future?" Of course these are just suggestions, but I think you get my point.
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Can anything you say really be held against you in court here? Even anonymously? Even if it doesn't have to do with the case, persee, as Bella's posts calling us freaks didn't specifically have to do with her case?
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Can anything you say really be held against you in court here?
not legal advice:
Well. If she got into a legal dispute with PFC for example, and they took discovery of her in which they asked for any internet posting, email, etc etc etc in which she mentioned pathway family center, she might have to comply if her lawyers could not suppress that discovery. So in theory, she might be forced to say "yeah.. that post is mine". Now whether that would later be admissible into court as relevant evidence is another matter. In any case, she is wise to say "better safe than sorry... better consult my attorneys".
Even anonymously? Even if it doesn't have to do with the case, persee, as Bella's posts calling us freaks didn't specifically have to do with her case[/b][/size][/color]?
[/quote]
PFC would likely use it to try and paint her as associated with a bunch of fanatical wacko druggies to the judge and jury. I'm guessing they would refresh the page until they hit the Salvia and then print that off. A judge would probably say "that's prejudicial... i'm not gonna allow that"... but he might not. Depends on whether the judge is a friend of or has sympathies for the program or their purported cause.
Believe me. When programs play in court, they don't give a damn about the rules and will try to make things more about theatre and appeals to emotion than anything else (since the facts are rarely on their side). When cornered, the'll croak "but this will put us out of business Waaahh...! The druggie kids will die now without us! please think of the children! Waaah"
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You are smart enough to get your point across without asking "are you really that dumb?" and so on and so forth. That turns the parents off, they stop listening, and you lose right then and there.
LOL fair enough. I can accept a critisim of my tactics in this case HOWEVER, she started the tone off... and I followed suit. You cant expect to run into a room and call everyone in it a freak then receive a monumental amount of respect from said "freaks" lol. I cant change this woman's mind and besides that shes already gone, but at least I said what needed to be said. You and I can play good cop bad cop here if that's what works but honestly I have never bit my tongue for anyone... and I dont think I'll start any time soon.
I'll proceed slowly and carefully when it really counts, you can be assured of that. In most ways this woman is not my concern, simply a representation or an example of my concern BEFORE a parent were to find out about the injustices in the program, BEFORE they kept their kid in a program for 2 years only to find out it was a bad investment and BEFORE their child is killed by a negligent and abusive staff member. Kudos to those who have woken up, but my issue is with those parents who are considering a program right now, and what delusions they are convincing themselves of in order to excuse their urge to purge their child from their everyday lives. I don't believe for a second a vacation from their teenager isn't the main motivating factor that has these parents cocked and loaded to send their kids of to get "help". And lord knows what those cunts are telling their cunty friends... making them believe they finally found that fabled quick fix... "a well deserved vacation for you poor overworked parents, we will take your kids, they'll be fine and you just tell yourself anything you want to make you feel all warm and fuzzy about it"
Honestly I'm just sick of the excuses I hear from too many parents... unless the child is seriously psycho and physically abusing them, I believe they will eventually mature and grow out of the adolescent rebellion and there's NOTHING you have to do to help them with that, they will come to on their very own. Parents need to realize what an effect the media has over their fears about their teens future, (hint hint the "out of control teens" on Muary are NOT real!!) Teens have been doing the same stuff for centuries and we have all survived and those that didnt, that was their fate. They chose that path and locking them up for a few years in their teen years makes no difference if they are meant to end up dead, insane or in jail. YOU CANT PREVENT THAT and neither can these programs.
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From what I can tell, this woman's post was chalked full of blame, insult and hate, and all toward US. Why would I even find reason to be accepting of her, I may be diplomatic with a slight twinge of attitude but I am simply pointing out the truth here. Why are you defending her Psy? Can you not see that I simply pointed out how her general mind state is the same that MANY MANY other parents have, and that mind state is was is driving them to have their children locked up. You may be one of those kids who totally forgave their parents, but as much as my mom is wonderful and awesome I will believe until the day I die that we was overreacting to my adolescent behavior. That is the only point I am trying to get across to her and if this Bellavita woman doesnt come back, so what, but what about the other program parents who decide to show up? I think they deserve a dose of reality as well. I know you think its counter productive but it is my STRONG opinion that if these parents don't WAKE THE FUCK UP we will NEVER win against the troubled teen industry.
Perfect example: do you blame the druggie or the drug dealer... You can lock up the drug dealers but if the druggie is still a druggie they will still be driven to find the drugs from another drug dealer. ALL parents I have spoken to weather for or against the program (that they have experience with) will tell me that there is a dire need for these private prisons and that there ARE some good ones out there. Well, unfortunately there are so few that I haven't even heard of ONE and unless we can help these parents realize that they NEED to just raise their kids come hell or high water then we will always have a program to fight because the program will always be in demand.
It makes me sick how sending your kid off to military school or a program or a mental hospital or rehab has become such a "trend" in the last 20 years. The problem is only partially with the program that abuses kids, the blame SHOULD be on the parents who think they don't have to raise their kids and they can just pay to get them out of their lives. I have never said that a parent who wised up and pulled their kid wasn't an appreciated member of this group, I have simply called upon their judgment to send their kid in the first place as an issue that NEEDS to be addressed! If they aren't willing to talk about it than fine, I highly doubt that coming here and insulting the forum members is any more productive than a good debate. I just hope at some point we will have a parent come to fornits, tell their story and listen to our opinions about the fact that it is ILLOGICAL to think that locking a kid up in a private prison is the way to go, and hopefully change their mind state a little bit.
What I don't understand is the discrepancy in your beliefs. You think that addiction is a choice and getting help for that should only be the choice of the addict, however you defend a parent who is perpetually delusional about their child's "problems" as much to say that being "headed down that path" is enough to lock a kid up?... She may have changed her mind about the program, but she HAS NOT changed the root of the reason she decided to imprison her child, and until that belief changes, her son is in danger of being sent off to another private hell, sooner or later. Until these parents start to change their misconceptions about teenagers the programs will always exist and I will always be the one to stand up and challenge the delusional thinking that has for many years resulted in the abuse and utter LIFE FUCKING of our previous, present and forthcoming generations. Even if I am the only one. So Psy you can argue for the sake of each individual parent all you want, you can tell me that I'm wasting my time if that argument is the most valid one you have but really this all comes down to the fact that I believe there is more abuse going on than meets the eye and I am not afraid or guilted into not saying so. Disagree with me all you want, I strongly welcome any intelligent challenges to my theory, but don't tell me not to speak my mind.
Well, she might have a point in blaming the system.
We know that addiction is a disease. It is international recognized in both the DSM (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders) and the ICD (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICD). So if you have a addiction, the right place to go is a hospital. But we punish it instead.
So a lot of parents find themselves in a position where they are forced to find a solution or see their child being locked up for many years. In some states even young adults drinking alcohol can result in parents themselves being locked up, if the young adult causes injury to others while being drunk.
That's is where the problem is. Because often the system won't help the parent. They are too focused on punishment and seeking justice for possible "victims".
I was just on our own network and Rotsne told me about a thread in another forum for parents (http://http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21404).
Situation: The youth are beating his parents up and destroying property.
I feel my choices are to: Call the police and be told, once again, they cannnot do anything. Take him to the hospital: I don't think this is the route -- might not be able to justify a 302. Send him to live elsewhere: Don't think anyone we know would be willing or that that could be the answer(GFG has threatened to commit suicide a number of times and has been hospitalized regarding such attempt one time this past October). Call Children and Youth Services: I would like to know more about this before we contact them. I don't know what the implications would be or if he could be in a "safe and structured environment" where he could be watched constantly.
Any suggestions if the system is just waiting until they can lock people up and the youth can join the 1 out of 100 being locked up in the US (http://http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html)?
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It is hard to give good advice to a parent based on a tid bit... but maybe if she were to post here about her son's situation we would be better able to give tailored advice.
My advice will always be to weather the storm, because the teen years ARE hard but are truly only a phase for most. If the kid is truly violent or mentally unstable the best thing a parent can do is get him to see a specialist... someone who may be able to diagnose and recommend a verified treatment plan. If the child is simply acting out, and does not have any significant mental problems then I suggest a healthy dose of some tender love and care. The main reason teens act out is because they feel their parents are mistreating them, so that's when a good talk and some compromises can mend a tense parent/ child relationship. The first thing I say to a parent with a "difficult child" is to stop and think what the parent may be doing to aggravate the situation and after some prodding there are usually some underlying control issues and a method of punishment that has done far more damage to the child's psyche then any lessons learned.
The problems you hear from the parents mouths aren't always the real problems, the problems started most likely years and years before and the teens in their new rebellious stages have just realized they are SICK of it, but don't know how to communicate to their parents about it so they avoid and act out. Sadly as well the parents are not willing to hear parenting critisizm from their kids anyway, and often not a counselor or teacher or anyone else for that matter. Many parents treat their children as a threat to their ego, Ive seen is oh so many times in my old line of work and its plain to see to me, but they are oblivious. What you hear from the parents is,"hes doing drugs, hes out all night or shes having sex, shes drinking and stealing my stuff" but what you do not see is that this teen has been growing up in a home where he is constantly critisized and punished and forced to obey a set of rules that are only set in place to keep up appearances with his parents wealthy friends... and he wants to escape all that. What you didnt hear about is that this mother went snooping through her daughters stuff and read in her journal about her sexual urges and found a beer bottle cap or a drawing of a pot leaf. This would of course lead a parent to FREAK OUT, confront and punish their child which is ironically the reason the child is acting out in the first place. The problem is not the drugs or the drinking or the friends or boyfriends/girlfriends, its the issues that this FAMILY has with each other. There are very few "troubled teens" however there are many troubled families.
Overall it has been my experience that a mediated talk or meeting to get all the family issues on the table has been very successful at translating the attitude and the acting out into communication. Once the parent can realize where the child is coming from and vice versa it sets a stage for those fights to be stopped before they escalate. It also sets some boundries and clears up some misconceptions. If the parent thinks the best way to find out about their child's life is to snoop and pry and then punish when they assume that's the truth, then they are only making the chance that they're child will trust them enough to come to them for advice about their lives that much slimmer. Kids need a little space, unconditional love and some trust, especially teens.
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It is hard to give good advice to a parent based on a tid bit... but maybe if she were to post here about her son's situation we would be better able to give tailored advice.
My advice will always be to weather the storm, because the teen years ARE hard but are truly only a phase for most. If the kid is truly violent or mentally unstable the best thing a parent can do is get him to see a specialist... someone who may be able to diagnose and recommend a verified treatment plan. If the child is simply acting out, and does not have any significant mental problems then I suggest a healthy dose of some tender love and care. The main reason teens act out is because they feel their parents are mistreating them, so that's when a good talk and some compromises can mend a tense parent/ child relationship. The first thing I say to a parent with a "difficult child" is to stop and think what the parent may be doing to aggravate the situation and after some prodding there are usually some underlying control issues and a method of punishment that has done far more damage to the child's psyche then any lessons learned.
The problems you hear from the parents mouths aren't always the real problems, the problems started most likely years and years before and the teens in their new rebellious stages have just realized they are SICK of it, but don't know how to communicate to their parents about it so they avoid and act out. Sadly as well the parents are not willing to hear parenting critisizm from their kids anyway, and often not a counselor or teacher or anyone else for that matter. Many parents treat their children as a threat to their ego, Ive seen is oh so many times in my old line of work and its plain to see to me, but they are oblivious. What you hear from the parents is,"hes doing drugs, hes out all night or shes having sex, shes drinking and stealing my stuff" but what you do not see is that this teen has been growing up in a home where he is constantly critisized and punished and forced to obey a set of rules that are only set in place to keep up appearances with his parents wealthy friends... and he wants to escape all that. What you didnt hear about is that this mother went snooping through her daughters stuff and read in her journal about her sexual urges and found a beer bottle cap or a drawing of a pot leaf. This would of course lead a parent to FREAK OUT, confront and punish their child which is ironically the reason the child is acting out in the first place. The problem is not the drugs or the drinking or the friends or boyfriends/girlfriends, its the issues that this FAMILY has with each other. There are very few "troubled teens" however there are many troubled families.
Overall it has been my experience that a mediated talk or meeting to get all the family issues on the table has been very successful at translating the attitude and the acting out into communication. Once the parent can realize where the child is coming from and vice versa it sets a stage for those fights to be stopped before they escalate. It also sets some boundries and clears up some misconceptions. If the parent thinks the best way to find out about their child's life is to snoop and pry and then punish when they assume that's the truth, then they are only making the chance that they're child will trust them enough to come to them for advice about their lives that much slimmer. Kids need a little space, unconditional love and some trust, especially teens.
And, don't forget, often the parents of a "troubled teen" are just crazy, abusive people. NO amounts of talks or teen "help" are really going to make a difference in terms of the parents doing a better job because they are just capable of it, and NOTHING short of the kid getting to a safe environment will create an atmosphere where the kid can do much more than survive their adolescance.
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You may be one of those kids who totally forgave their parents, but as much as my mom is wonderful and awesome I will believe until the day I die that we was overreacting to my adolescent behavior.
I think psy just has a different perspective. When he came to fornits and became admin I noticed one of the first changes was the creation of moderated forums for parents to come and ask question in peace.
I think psy views the decision to send kids to programs differently, because he was 18 when he went to a program. He was in on the decision and signed himself in, unlike under aged program kids. I think because of that, he wants to believe all parents are duped, like he said he was. I think because of his being sent as an adult, and having a say in it, he has more sympathy to the idea of parents being fooled. I also think that is why he posts so much about AA and scientology, both of which are organizations that are voluntary for adults.
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I think psy just has a different perspective. When he came to fornits and became admin I noticed one of the first changes was the creation of moderated forums for parents to come and ask question in peace.
I think psy views the decision to send kids to programs differently, because he was 18 when he went to a program. He was in on the decision and signed himself in, unlike under aged program kids. I think because of that, he wants to believe all parents are duped, like he said he was. I think because of his being sent as an adult, and having a say in it, he has more sympathy to the idea of parents being fooled. I also think that is why he posts so much about AA and scientology, both of which are organizations that are voluntary for adults.
Need I note that It's more than possible to dupe underage kids into signing into programs. It's how it happened in Over the GW, and it's how it happened to many other survivors on this site. Would you say the same to them?
You'd have to a compete idiot to think that programs are honest with anybody about what they do. I signed up for a "boarding school", not a fucking cult. I did not sign up or consent to that. That was not voluntary.
Read up on informed consent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informed_consent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informed_consent)
Also, the Facilities Q&A forum was moderated long before I came to this site. The only moderated forum that has been added since then is the CAN forum, which I don't even moderate and the Melting Pot, which I do moderate, but is off-topic, just like Froderik moderates the "let it bleed" forum.
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I think psy just has a different perspective. When he came to fornits and became admin I noticed one of the first changes was the creation of moderated forums for parents to come and ask question in peace.
I think psy views the decision to send kids to programs differently, because he was 18 when he went to a program. He was in on the decision and signed himself in, unlike under aged program kids. I think because of that, he wants to believe all parents are duped, like he said he was. I think because of his being sent as an adult, and having a say in it, he has more sympathy to the idea of parents being fooled. I also think that is why he posts so much about AA and scientology, both of which are organizations that are voluntary for adults.
Need I note that It's more than possible to dupe underage kids into signing into programs. It's how it happened in Over the GW, and it's how it happened to many other survivors on this site. Would you say the same to them?
Well maybe I haven't explained fully that I whole heartedly believe there are exceptions to my theory, as in parents who were truly dealing with an at risk teen and were truly duped by a program. I know they exist, I have met a few and believe that their actions AFTER they were duped prove them to be truly exempt from my general judgment.
I think the same rings true when the situation is that of which a child (or adult in your case Psy) was mislead about the treatment the program offered when they were involved with the decision to enter a program. I almost feel as if this is a completely different situation and the theory doesnt apply at all unless the parents were the ones encouraging him to find a "treatment program" when he didn't need one.
Heres the thing tho, I was never referring to the notion that the parents were aware of the abuse and that is what they intended, but I do believe that they intend to purge their child (origin of their stress) from their lives and are intended to punish their kids by doing so. I'm sure they only think the fact that their kid has to live away from home, friends and the luxuries they are used to as punishment enough, so I can imagine that any normal parent would be shocked to hear what REALLY happens in these programs. However that does not excuse them from the hysteria and bad judgment that lead them to freak out about their teens behavior, enough to send them away. I also think its dumb to assume that the literature on the program website or the phamplets or what the Edcons have told you is absolute truth, unless the parents HAVE visited the facility before sending the kid and did a massive amount of research on the school FIRST I wouldn't be able to grant them with the excuse of being TRULY duped. For those that did, I would extend that pardon, because I know VERY VERY well how far the program goes to cover up their shit, and ANYONE can be fooled by their theatrics at some point. I have only made this point because I think too many parents are skirting the responsibility they should be taking for their own actions in this situation. I think that a decent amount of parents have been brainwashed by the media, and their church and the previous generations before the program ever did a number on them. The program can only pray on the weak minded... The strong willed, sensitive and logical parents are all able to smell the bullshit very quickly. My point is that parents these days are becoming more and more afraid of youth, and make all kinds of ridiculous assumptions that their child will end up dead, insane or in jail... I for one don't think that is a logical fear, however in the instance that a parent actually has a genuine out of control teen, there isn't much a program can do to keep him from that path in life. So the notion that a program can save a child's life is just moot, in my opinion.
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Keeping telling yourself whatever it takes to justify your mistreatment of a sage grouse. It is entirely up to you Dr. Spock. Once you've returned to Vulcan and undergone the mating ritual your hormonal imbalance will return to normal.
Live long and prosper!
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As well, id like to point out that you are posting under a guest name as well... you don't have an account and this name, Bellavita isn't exactly a tell of who you are.
She did have an account. She asked me to delete it and I did as requested. All her posts are thus attributed to guests now.
Too bad. Covergaard PM'ed her because he would ask her to write her story about how she was fooled and post it an independent parent forum Rotsne are working in. Many parents are told to seek private options because they are caught with children suffering from ADHD or overmedication who "properly" are on drugs. The police won't have anything to with them, the school won't have anything to do with them because they act out and disturb the education. Some schools are even calling the police on any violence regardless of the fact that it was only a friendly tap on the shoulder. We are talking of kids down to 5'th grade being collected by police and returned to the parents.
Because there are no public solution, they are told to find a private option or wait until the kid is old enough so he or she can be arrested. PFC are just around the corner. Just this morning a poster thanked Rotsne (http://http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21404), but they could really need a story from a parent in the states.
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Meh.. that's messed up business.
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1994.
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1984 is a better year, and book.
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I found this webpage doing a search for Shady Brook Residential Treatment Center and WOW, a few memories come roaring back. Like Dr. Looney (I was put in Shady Brook for about 1 1/2 years before I got kicked out for smoking pot.....(Fall 77 to Spring 79) well, there is obviously more to the story but it was more of what I knew than anything else I did-okay - I found out about an affair going on).
I felt like this was a place rich people dumped their problem kids off at. Granted, I was also seeing the uprising of these horrible military youth camps and was quite thankful I was not at one of those places, I mean even my parents thought those places were cruel. Years later my parents apologized for what they had subjected me to in the first place (mental hospitals, Shady Brook, foster parents, etc.).
Many of these same camps have turned into Christian, Jesus converting camps for the problem child. Still concerns me.
I am familiar with the father and his son in the video. I remember hearing it on the News and thinking, "Why would anyone put their poor child through that?" Those camps are more about adults who want to control kids, IMO, bullies you might say, in the name of what? Certainly not help.
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As well, id like to point out that you are posting under a guest name as well... you don't have an account and this name, Bellavita isn't exactly a tell of who you are.
She did have an account. She asked me to delete it and I did as requested. All her posts are thus attributed to guests now.
Too bad. Covergaard PM'ed her because he would ask her to write her story about how she was fooled and post it an independent parent forum Rotsne are working in. Many parents are told to seek private options because they are caught with children suffering from ADHD or overmedication who "properly" are on drugs. The police won't have anything to with them, the school won't have anything to do with them because they act out and disturb the education. Some schools are even calling the police on any violence regardless of the fact that it was only a friendly tap on the shoulder. We are talking of kids down to 5'th grade being collected by police and returned to the parents.
Because there are no public solution, they are told to find a private option or wait until the kid is old enough so he or she can be arrested. PFC are just around the corner. Just this morning a poster thanked Rotsne (http://http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21404), but they could really need a story from a parent in the states.
I SEE You were banned. How come?
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The existense of a Rotsne name on this board is enough. In fact as it has turned out, the banned the wrong person, because the person behind Rotsne there is not the Rotsne here. He was only contacted by us and given advice.
But what made them ban him was the thread about northwest Academy in this board where one of the posters son is detained. We know how much this son is going to struggle once he is released. Now the mother has moved to another state while he is detained and the birth-father is gone because he cannot communicate on free terms with his son.
What seems to be a real problem is the easy access to extend custody to 21 in this area. It is still too easy if you ask me. UHSINC provide so many job in this area so it is easy for them to get paper work done. It is almost as bad as Pennsylvia.
We still have an uncover member on the board posing as a mother from California.