Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Bunnie on July 02, 2008, 10:18:03 PM
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http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:Ys ... d=13&gl=us (http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:YsrBC_cX37MJ:www.heal-online.org/news.htm+Hr+5876+Fornits&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=13&gl=us)
I found this on Heal, just in case no one saw it.
TEEN LIBERTY/TEEN TORTURE INDUSTRY NEWS
Fire destroys dorm at school for troubled teens--June 26th, 2008--
ABBEVILLE, S.C. --Authorities say fire destroyed a dorm at a boarding school for troubled teens in Abbeville County, but no one was injured in the blaze. Carolina Springs Academy Director Elaine Davis says several students returning to the dorm after lunch Wednesday smelled smoke. Fire officials say the blaze burned for more than two hours and destroyed the dorm at the school which specializes in helping students that aren't reaching their potential because of their behavior. The school has moved the boys to another dorm on campus. The Red Cross plans to give them bedding, clothes and school supplies. (Webmaster Note: Carolina Springs Academy is a WWASPS program and confirmedly abusive. It should be closed, permanently.)
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Yup, heard of it. Shame it didn't burn the whole place, though.
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Yup, heard of it. Shame it didn't burn the whole place, though.
We don't need no water....
I dedicate this to Carolina Springs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdF6M2FBKG4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdF6M2FBKG4)
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what...
no smoke detectors?
no sprinkler system?
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what...
no smoke detectors?
no sprinkler system?
Guess they didn't need no water.
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(http://http://www.giffies.com/gifs/22.gif)
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Yup, heard of it. Shame it didn't burn the whole place, though.
We don't need no water....
I dedicate this to Carolina Springs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdF6M2FBKG4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdF6M2FBKG4)
Great video . Can't CS afford to buy the kids clothes and blankets, geeze.
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http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:Ys ... d=13&gl=us (http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:YsrBC_cX37MJ:www.heal-online.org/news.htm+Hr+5876+Fornits&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=13&gl=us)
I found this on Heal, just in case no one saw it.
TEEN LIBERTY/TEEN TORTURE INDUSTRY NEWS
Fire destroys dorm at school for troubled teens--June 26th, 2008--
ABBEVILLE, S.C. --Authorities say fire destroyed a dorm at a boarding school for troubled teens in Abbeville County, but no one was injured in the blaze. Carolina Springs Academy Director Elaine Davis says several students returning to the dorm after lunch Wednesday smelled smoke. Fire officials say the blaze burned for more than two hours and destroyed the dorm at the school which specializes in helping students that aren't reaching their potential because of their behavior. The school has moved the boys to another dorm on campus. The Red Cross plans to give them bedding, clothes and school supplies.
Ah yes. The Red Cross And what a fantastic track record (http://http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/terezin.html) they have.
The Red Cross was allowed to visit Terezin once. The village of Terezin was spruced up for the occasion. Certain inmates were dressed up and told to stand at strategic places along the specially designated route through Terezin. Shop windows along that carefully guarded path were filled with goods for the day. One young mother remembers seeing the bakery window and shelves suddenly filled with baked goods the inmates had never seen during their time at Terezin. Even the candy shop window overflowed with bon bons creating a fantastic illusion she would never forget.
When the Red Cross representative appeared before this young mother, she remembers being asked how it was to live in Terezin during those days. Her reply implored the questioner to look around. Be sure and look around, as she herself rolled her own widely opened eyes around in an exaggerated manner. The Red Cross reported dryly that while war time conditions made all life difficult, life at Terezin was acceptable given all of the pressures. The Red Cross concluded that the Jews were being treated all right.
Moral of the story: if you can spruce up a concentration camp for outsiders, the same can be done with a program (and has been done).
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Someday the stories of surviors of Program's will be compared with what happened to the Jewish people in Germany.
There will still be programmies saying " we have lost few, but saved many". Many people will be disgusted with them and they will know they were WRONG!
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Did program staff climb on the barn in which you students were burned and douse its roof with gasoline?
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Did program staff climb on the barn in which you students were burned and douse its roof with gasoline?
I figured such comments were inevitable when I brought up that example. In no way was I comparing the severity of what went on in concentration camps with that which goes on in programs. What I was doing was pointing out that if it's possible to fool inspectors when you're committing genocide, it's definitely possible to cover up a smaller crime. I'm not interested in the severity of what happens. I know if it can happen, it will happen. What interests me is how it can happen. Hitler was a political cult leader who got a little too popular and a little too much power... natural consequences of that social situation ensue. When there are similar patterns of totalist control, regardless of scale, abuse will occur to the maximum possible extent power allows... and where there is absolute power and no consequences (which can only happen in a dictatorship, really... you get genocide... each and every time.) Think about that.
There are more than a few similarities between dictatorships, and programs. Cults go from little to big but share similar patterns along the way. When it's a one on one situation, such as an abusive relationship, one partner attempts to control the other's communciation, who he/she can associate with, etc. The same exactly things happen in cults, and the same in dictatorships. I grew up in Romania where I heard stories all the time of how people (on a regular basis... this stuff happened to everybody) were forced to regularly confess their crimes to the group, even things they did not do. People became informers on each other and were rewarded (but nobody knew who the informers were, so nobody trusted anybody). You can't deny that the same exact things don't happen in programs. It's the same exact pattern. Those who spoke out, otherwise presented a problem to the regieme, were sent off to prison camps... sometimes it was just because some neighbor who didn't like you had denounced you. This could be seen as analogous to the "stepmom" syndrome, where a re-married father bends to the will of the new wife to send the little bastard off to programs for no reason other than to be rid of the responsibilities of parenting. I could go on, but I think you see my point.
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Did program staff climb on the barn in which you students were burned and douse its roof with gasoline?
I'm not interested in the severity of what happens. I know if it can happen, it will happen. What interests me is how it can happen. Hitler was a political cult leader who got a little too popular and a little too much power... natural consequences of that social situation ensue. When there are similar patterns of totalist control, regardless of scale, abuse will occur to the maximum possible extent power allows... and where there is absolute power and no consequences (which can only happen in a dictatorship, really... you get genocide... each and every time.) Think about that.
There is no inevitable slide from one-on-one discipline to the total extermination of human life, which only regulation can prevent.
There were many factors working toward the Holocaust in Europe. I don't see those factors as applying here. I don't see program staff and administration turning genocidal, given the freedom. Or you. Or me. Holocausts are possible. They're not inevitable.
What you're saying is what every kid resents hearing: if you start smoking cigarettes, you will end up dead of an overdose. That's rarely the case. The same holds good for a person's capacity to injure another.
I share your interest in what leads to human pathology. I disagree with your belief in the inevitability of that outcome.
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I grew up in Romania where I heard stories all the time of how people (on a regular basis... this stuff happened to everybody) were forced to regularly confess their crimes to the group, even things they did not do. People became informers on each other and were rewarded (but nobody knew who the informers were, so nobody trusted anybody). You can't deny that the same exact things don't happen in programs. It's the same exact pattern. Those who spoke out, otherwise presented a problem to the regieme, were sent off to prison camps... sometimes it was just because some neighbor who didn't like you had denounced you. This could be seen as analogous to the "stepmom" syndrome, where a re-married father bends to the will of the new wife to send the little bastard off to programs for no reason other than to be rid of the responsibilities of parenting. I could go on, but I think you see my point.
On the other hand, I viewed the attempt by my program to break our spirits, to make us complicitous in our own oppression, as the key program imperative, and I resisted as doggedly as I could. I attribute my rejection of the program in large part to my Jewishness.
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On the other hand, I viewed the attempt by my program to break our spirits, to make us complicitous in our own oppression, as the key program imperative, and I resisted as doggedly as I could. I attribute my rejection of the program in large part to my Jewishness.
Botched the previous post. The part quoted above is a reply to Psy.
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Did program staff climb on the barn in which you students were burned and douse its roof with gasoline?
I'm not interested in the severity of what happens. I know if it can happen, it will happen. What interests me is how it can happen. Hitler was a political cult leader who got a little too popular and a little too much power... natural consequences of that social situation ensue. When there are similar patterns of totalist control, regardless of scale, abuse will occur to the maximum possible extent power allows... and where there is absolute power and no consequences (which can only happen in a dictatorship, really... you get genocide... each and every time.) Think about that.
There is no inevitable slide from one-on-one discipline to the total extermination of human life, which only regulation can prevent.
Well. First off. I didn't say one on one discipline. I said a totalist enviornment.
Now ask youself two questions:
1. Why such an enviornment exists in the first place? Because somebody desires power over others. Whether it is to help them where then cannot help themselves, or out of some malicious motive, it doesn't matter (and many would argue power tends to corrupt anyway). In order to maintain the enviornment... that particular system, it necessitates certain practices:
2. What conditions must be met to maintain that environment? For example, In any totalist system, there will be dissidents. Since it is necessary to control communication to maintain the thought reform milieu / totalist environment, those dissidents must be dealt with. In a program, kids can be coerced to comply, isolated, or if all else fails, thrown out and sent to a worse program. A program has an "out point" that does not necessitate murder, as well as consequences to such things (such as bad press for a dead kid). Even if nothign is accomplished... why should the program care, since a longer "treatment" means more money, ultimately? In communist Russia, in the beginning, people were exiled... When it became clear that nobody particularly minded being exiled, and they would later speak out in public about the internal workings of the broken system, it became necessary for the survival of the system and the "greater good" to exterminate dissidents/suspected dissidents or imprison them for life. Since there was no authority higher than the state, and the country's communication with the outside was controlled, nobody batted an eye until many years later when books such as the Gulag Archipelago were published. Think what kind of things are necessary for a program to survive and profit in a competitive market (where abusive programs can inherantly have an edge in marketing due to their, for example, glowing "sucess stories"... where fradulent program have an edge in admissions since they had out kickbacks to ed-cons) and come to your own conclusions. Perception is everything in this business.
There were many factors working toward the Holocaust in Europe. I don't see those factors as applying here.
You don't think teenagers are the new "nigger"? For chrissakes, you can drag em behind a Truck in texas and get away with it as long as you call it "therapeutic" and claim that the ends justify such extreme means. It's not just teenagers, either. It's any group demonized by the state or the press. Fear is used to control.
I don't see program staff and administration turning genocidal, given the freedom. Or you. Or me.
They you are blind. Look into the Stanford Prison Experiments, or some of Milgram's experiments. Anything is possible if you rationalize the ends as justifying any means, including the deprivation others' liberties.
Holocausts are possible. They're not inevitable.
What you're saying is what every kid resents hearing: if you start smoking cigarettes, you will end up dead of an overdose. That's rarely the case. The same holds good for a person's capacity to injure another.
I share your interest in what leads to human pathology. I disagree with your belief in the inevitability of that outcome.
I'll concede that it is theoretically possible that a benevolent dictator could exist, but look at history. In what totalist dictatorship/enviornment has abuse not occurred, usually progressing in severity until a snapping point? As i've pointed out: dissidents must be dealt with, lest the dissent spread and threaten the "greater good".
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On the other hand, I viewed the attempt by my program to break our spirits, to make us complicitous in our own oppression, as the key program imperative, and I resisted as doggedly as I could. I attribute my rejection of the program in large part to my Jewishness.
Well. The jews played a different role in that dictatorship. They were the scapegoat, the fake threat. They were never a threat, and hitler knew that, but he also knew that people could be united and controlled by fear and hatred. (they could care less if the jews expressed discontent in a situation where they could do nothing about it... control over communication was not necessary there. They were all to be killed anyway.) In this case, the scapegoat would be drugs, a deadinsaneinjail "threat" that "necessitates" absolute compliance to the group.
The people Hitler wished to control, were the majority of the german people (and the world). That was his goal. Those are the "program participants" and where the similarities arise. Look into how kids were encouraged to report on their own parents, the secret police, the hitler youth. That is where the key to the puzzle is... That is where totalist the environment is. That is what permitted such unquestioning loyalty to arise to the point where people were willing to commit genocide for the greater good (or, at the very least, look the other way and not want to know).
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Your take on human nature reminds me of the movie "Dogsville." I think that you and that director have to be tied for first place in misanthropy.
I'm busy, so my response must be brief. For starters, teens are not, as you say, "the new nigger." Blacks and other "out groups" are arbitrarily created to enable the "in groups" to maximize their interests. Jane Goodall's work on pseudospeciation is a study of this in non-human primate groups. Your notion that teenagers are an "out group" and parents are the "in group" runs counter not only to normative warm and loving family dynamics -- the kind we all naturally aspire to -- it runs counter to evolutionary theory. according to which parents seek even to the point of self-sacrifice to ensure the spread and survival of their young.
If you've got a better theory I can guarantee you a front-page spread in the New York Times.
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Your notion that teenagers are an "out group" and parents are the "in group" runs counter not only to normative warm and loving family dynamics -- the kind we all naturally aspire to -- it runs counter to evolutionary theory. according to which parents seek even to the point of self-sacrifice to ensure the spread and survival of their young.
This, with caveats.
There are two parallel systems at work here. One is the natually occurring way that runs through most of civilization, which you just mentioned.
There is, however, an aberrant way; evolutionarily speaking, people who have children because the Bible told them to and treat them with contempt, only pausing long enough to inculcate them with the same thing, is in fact a reproductive strategy, one born of the religious insanity of the Middle East. In the very long term it is completely unsurvivable but since people of a similar stripe in this regard tend to flock together (e.g. programs, Joseph Smith's original Mormon movement, etc), we get enclaves of people who think this is okay.
The mistake Ginger, Psy, and a lot of other program survivors make is thinking that most of their society follows this abberant system.
For more information on this dichotomy, I recommend Dogemperor (http://http://dogemperor.dailykos.com/).
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Are Jews, Christians, and Muslims more contemptuous of their young than peoples of other religions? I didn't know that. Is that what the Dogemperor says?
Religious (and racial) discrimination is not irrational. Let's say you are an employer and you must choose between three job applicants: a Jew, a Christian, and a Muslim. These three applicants are equally qualified and you have to choose one. Now, there might be a statistic that Jews are more likely to show up at work on time than Christians and Muslims. Based on this statistic, you will employ the Jew. The statistic might not be accurate with regard to the three specific applicants before you, but you don't know that. You have to choose. So you choose the Jew, because statistically the odds are in your favor. So, your discrimination is quite rational. You have acted in your own best interests, given you information. You have enhanced your survivability. You might check out, question, and even combat that statistic at some point. But until then, by discriminating against the Christian and the Muslim applicants you have acted in a most rational manner.
So where do I find the statistic that Jews or is it Christians or is it Muslims or is it all of the above feel contempt for their young?
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Someday the stories of survivors of Program's will be compared with what happened to the Jewish people in Germany.
Wow, ya'll are really chattin' it up with this holocaust comparison thing; people made that comparison here years ago...just .02 from an old-timer.
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Please don't bring make-believe statistics into this. It makes you look like TheWho.
I'll simplify this. There are two general methods of obtaining power in society.
The first one is the direct one: You bring your tribe or other like-minded individuals and take over.
Jews, actually, follow this first type, with a pinch of its own "obtain high status in other societies" that leads to so many retarded conspiracy theories. (A history of Jews following the first type is the slaughterfest we call the Old Testament.) One cannot convert to Judaism; they explicitly avoid the second method when dealing with outsiders.
The second method of obtaining power is to make others believe you deserve power. The Egyptians followed this directly: "Pharaoh is God." Christianity came along and said "Christ is God, even after he is dead." It's nice to believe, which is why it spreads. "I don't need to worry what happens when I die, because I have Christ." Who can disprove it?
Someone cognized: "I can make these people do anything I want if I make them believe in it! I don't even need to say it's me, because I can use the dead Christ!" The success of these efforts combined into what we know as early Catholicism.
Eventually some fuckwit named Mohammed came along and said "Oh yeah, well I don't need a dead Jew on a stick for this, I can do it too!"
And of course both religions pretty much require people to pass it along. How long would a religion last that didn't care, or had "NOBODY must be introduced to this" as one of its tenets?
Christianity and Islam are the same shit, just differently flavored, passing down the ages like syphilis, eventually losing most of its direct nastiness like every other disease in human history,
In prescientific society it worked, but today we have people who know what this disease is. Some of them antipreach. Some of them go around and intentionally inoculate every child they can find. Why do you think there's such a fucking row about evolution in schools? The heavily infected are having their worlds rocked. They can't take the idea of evidence pushing out forced-belief; it'd destroy their lives.
Now let's take it on a family level. Things can be different here; a warlord can refuse to harm his children, a Jew can force his own children to follow the path. Yet the same types apply.
Normally, with even the most aggressive first-typers, the abuse is directly linked to physical size. "I'll make you do what I want because I am bigger than you." When the kid grows up and can outfight the parent, this is accepted, and passed on to the next generation.
With the truly adamant second-typers, though, they pass it on directly, using whatever they have available (physical violence, threats, etc): "The parent is God, no matter what." Lon Woodbury pretty much comes right out and says this.
It's easy to see where the contempt comes from. Their own children have resistance to this disease and no longer believe them. Is it any wonder, then, that they fall back on what they grew up with and what has been passed down through generations: "I will make you believe this, by force!" Enough of this and it tends to loop back on itself, control of one's own family becoming a cult of its own. Hence, programs, to give them a forced dose of the disease.
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Your take on human nature reminds me of the movie "Dogsville." I think that you and that director have to be tied for first place in misanthropy.
I'm busy, so my response must be brief. For starters, teens are not, as you say, "the new nigger." Blacks and other "out groups" are arbitrarily created to enable the "in groups" to maximize their interests.
Let's look at the history here. Examine the doctrine Synanon preached that leaked down into the system we have today. Synanon preached that "druggies" were inherantly, genetically, diseased, and that it was for the greater good of mankind that they would be isolated in Synanon and sterilized (so the druggies would die off and not pass on their diseased genes). His own followers became the satan figure, with him as God, the savior of not just his followers, but of mankind from the disease of the "druggie".
Problem with synanon is that when the IRS cut the head off that cult, it's followers spread to the four corners of the United States, spreading this dogma (and the same disdain pervades to this day, as do Chuck Dederich's methods of dealing with the druggie question". They never figured out that it was all a scam to make Chuck Dederich rich, and so a "religion" is born. But where I disagree with ghost is that such an enviornment of totalism does not have to be religiously justified. An ideal is enough, with a charismatic, sociopathic leader. Ideas, and people, can be portrayed as god (i.e. loyalty to the party above all!).
Jane Goodall's work on pseudospeciation is a study of this in non-human primate groups. Your notion that teenagers are an "out group" and parents are the "in group" runs counter not only to normative warm and loving family dynamics -- the kind we all naturally aspire to -- it runs counter to evolutionary theory. according to which parents seek even to the point of self-sacrifice to ensure the spread and survival of their young.
If you've got a better theory I can guarantee you a front-page spread in the New York Times.
Oh. I'm not saying that parent's don't do what they feel is in the best interest for their kids (that is what is flexible). I'm just saying that there are sociopaths who prey on the parents good will, eventually convincing them that it's in their child's best interest to be, for example, abandoned on the streets. Most of the parents, i'm sure, instinctively fight against what they are being told to do, but at the same time rationalize that it is necessary (with the help of the program). Most people who do horrible things believe they are doing the right thing, or that which is necessary for the greater good.
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@Ghost:
Whether it's a religious dictatorship (power justifed by god), or a secular dictatorship (power justified by some other greater good, such as a political ideal) does not matter much to me. When a totalist system arises, justified by whatever means, it invariably necessitates certain practices to maintain the operation of the system.
Dogemperor blames everything on religion. Solzhenitsyn blamed it all on Socialism / Atheism. Jews put the blame for the holocaust on antisemitism. I put the blame on the leader of the group who uses these tools and the totalist common traites (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html) between all these systems to obtain and maintain their power (control over communication, obsessive demands for confession, doctrine over person, etc...) When such systems exist, regardless of whether it on a societal scale, such as in a dictatorship, or whether on a smaller scale, as in a cult, or even an asusive relatinoship, they necessitate certain practices to maintain the operation of the system, and the leader's control over his group.
I am NOT saying that a modern, truly free, democratic society fits the criteria for totalism... far from it. What I am saying is that when a charismatic leader sets himself up as having the one true way to lead mankind, or to deal with a certain problem such as druggies, or some other scapegoat, people are often easily misled and sucked into it.
Religion is not the problem. The problem is certain power-hunger, or power-drunk people setting themselves up as God or the only way to God (or some god like higher ideal). (religions can exist without leaders... there is such a thing as non-organized religion, or even organized religions that are not extreme and whose followers can come and go, and who's doctrine does not preach "it's us or hell") That is where the border crosses from religion into cult, and from there necessitates certain practices (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html) that seem to arise natrually in such circumstances in order for the leader to maintain his power and control.
I feel that educating society to understand the commonalities between all totalist systems, such things are less likely to occur.
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Please don't bring make-believe statistics into this. It makes you look like TheWho.
I'll simplify this. There are two general methods of obtaining power in society.
The first one is the direct one: You bring your tribe or other like-minded individuals and take over.
Jews, actually, follow this first type, with a pinch of its own "obtain high status in other societies" that leads to so many retarded conspiracy theories. (A history of Jews following the first type is the slaughterfest we call the Old Testament.) One cannot convert to Judaism; they explicitly avoid the second method when dealing with outsiders.
The second method of obtaining power is to make others believe you deserve power. The Egyptians followed this directly: "Pharaoh is God." Christianity came along and said "Christ is God, even after he is dead." It's nice to believe, which is why it spreads. "I don't need to worry what happens when I die, because I have Christ." Who can disprove it?
Someone cognized: "I can make these people do anything I want if I make them believe in it! I don't even need to say it's me, because I can use the dead Christ!" The success of these efforts combined into what we know as early Catholicism.
Eventually some fuckwit named Mohammed came along and said "Oh yeah, well I don't need a dead Jew on a stick for this, I can do it too!"
And of course both religions pretty much require people to pass it along. How long would a religion last that didn't care, or had "NOBODY must be introduced to this" as one of its tenets?
Christianity and Islam are the same shit, just differently flavored, passing down the ages like syphilis, eventually losing most of its direct nastiness like every other disease in human history,
In prescientific society it worked, but today we have people who know what this disease is. Some of them antipreach. Some of them go around and intentionally inoculate every child they can find. Why do you think there's such a fucking row about evolution in schools? The heavily infected are having their worlds rocked. They can't take the idea of evidence pushing out forced-belief; it'd destroy their lives.
Now let's take it on a family level. Things can be different here; a warlord can refuse to harm his children, a Jew can force his own children to follow the path. Yet the same types apply.
Normally, with even the most aggressive first-typers, the abuse is directly linked to physical size. "I'll make you do what I want because I am bigger than you." When the kid grows up and can outfight the parent, this is accepted, and passed on to the next generation.
With the truly adamant second-typers, though, they pass it on directly, using whatever they have available (physical violence, threats, etc): "The parent is God, no matter what." Lon Woodbury pretty much comes right out and says this.
It's easy to see where the contempt comes from. Their own children have resistance to this disease and no longer believe them. Is it any wonder, then, that they fall back on what they grew up with and what has been passed down through generations: "I will make you believe this, by force!" Enough of this and it tends to loop back on itself, control of one's own family becoming a cult of its own. Hence, programs, to give them a forced dose of the disease.
I'm not asking you for "make-believe statistics." I'm asking you for real ones. You're clueless about religions, Ghost. You're claims are laughable. Do you expect me to believe your crackpot theories just because you do? Who do you think you are? God?!?
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Please don't bring make-believe statistics into this. It makes you look like TheWho.
TheWho’s stats stood the test of time here. No one was able to poke a hole in them or point out a flaw, people were just angry with them because they told a different story, that’s all it was. He provided links to his sources.
As someone else said, the more we can educate people on the ins and outs of these places the easier it will be to expose them publically and in a big way, tear the walls down, remove the leaders and make the bank accounts public. The regulation is a first step in removing some of the power and control small groups or individuals have over these kids. Were moving the elephant in the right direction, just not gaining much momentum.
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Please don't bring make-believe statistics into this. It makes you look like TheWho.
TheWho’s stats stood the test of time here. No one was able to poke a hole in them or point out a flaw, people were just angry with them because they told a different story, that’s all it was. He provided links to his sources.
As someone else said, the more we can educate people on the ins and outs of these places the easier it will be to expose them publically and in a big way, tear the walls down, remove the leaders and make the bank accounts public. The regulation is a first step in removing some of the power and control small groups or individuals have over these kids. Were moving the elephant in the right direction, just not gaining much momentum.
:guesswho:
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There are an assload of anecdotes- the inter-mountain area near Utah having a high rape rate, for example- but let's skip that for now. Here's some actual research. (http://http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V7N-3VF9DMN-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9d5497d029a674c1ea8a589fd6bbb16a) If you don't have $31.50 go look at the titles of the 32 articles that cite it.
Psy uses "totalism" but I think it's more of a sliding scale- with Catholicism you get (today) priests ass-fucking altar boys; with Protestant fundamentalism you get Teen Challenge and some programs; with Mormonism you get even more child abuse, the highest suicide rate in America, and more programs; with the FLDS you get a compound where 14 year old girls are "marrying" 50 year old men; with resurgent Islamic fundamentalism you get total subjugation of women and absolute fanaticism taught to 5 year olds; and when you have a new system like Nazism, communism, and charismatic leaders like Pol Pot, you get millions of people killed.
Generally, the newer the cult, the more potential for danger it has until people become resistant to its nastier effects and the disease and the person have a general truce (as they do with Hepatitis C). What would happen if Scientology took over?
Christianity was actually crafted to not be dangerous, and you know what? It turned out to be fucking dangerous anyway. Crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, persecutions. WWJD?
Give me an example of a great human evil that *did not* come about as the result of an all-encompassing belief system.
Oh, wait. You're TheWho. Okay, I'm talking to everyone else then.
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There are an assload of anecdotes- the inter-mountain area near Utah having a high rape rate, for example- but let's skip that for now. Here's some actual research. (http://http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V7N-3VF9DMN-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9d5497d029a674c1ea8a589fd6bbb16a) If you don't have $31.50 go look at the titles of the 32 articles that cite it.
Psy uses "totalism" but I think it's more of a sliding scale- with Catholicism you get (today) priests ass-fucking altar boys; with Protestant fundamentalism you get Teen Challenge and some programs; with Mormonism you get even more child abuse, the highest suicide rate in America, and more programs; with the FLDS you get a compound where 14 year old girls are "marrying" 50 year old men; with resurgent Islamic fundamentalism you get total subjugation of women and absolute fanaticism taught to 5 year olds; and when you have a new system like Nazism, communism, and charismatic leaders like Pol Pot, you get millions of people killed.
Generally, the newer the cult, the more potential for danger it has until people become resistant to its nastier effects and the disease and the person have a general truce (as they do with Hepatitis C). What would happen if Scientology took over?
Christianity was actually crafted to not be dangerous, and you know what? It turned out to be fucking dangerous anyway. Crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, persecutions. WWJD?
Give me an example of a great human evil that *did not* come about as the result of an all-encompassing belief system.
Oh, wait. You're TheWho. Okay, I'm talking to everyone else then.
:guesswho:
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I'm as stoned as an old testament hooker in a synagogue full of rabbis.
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I'm as stoned as an old testament hooker in a synagogue full of rabbis.
You must be. Old Testament hookers and rabbis lived about a thousand years apart.
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Ghost Excellent points & insight.
This single page of this thread alone contains more critical thinking than CEDU's 2 1/2 years of 'holistic' education. Aka, fake 'emotional growth' and bunk academics taught by staff who were recruited at a Monster Truck show.
All the who did was make me want to take shite in an envelope and fedex it to Mel.
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I've smoked about 20 bongs so far today and taken 7 Vicodin and 80 milligrams of adderal. I'm Really Stoned. It took me 45 minutes to type this. This is the only shit I read and Frod keeps the boun daries defined
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There are an assload of anecdotes- the inter-mountain area near Utah having a high rape rate, for example- but let's skip that for now. Here's some actual research. (http://http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V7N-3VF9DMN-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9d5497d029a674c1ea8a589fd6bbb16a) If you don't have $31.50 go look at the titles of the 32 articles that cite it.
Psy uses "totalism" but I think it's more of a sliding scale- with Catholicism you get (today) priests ass-fucking altar boys; with Protestant fundamentalism you get Teen Challenge and some programs; with Mormonism you get even more child abuse, the highest suicide rate in America, and more programs; with the FLDS you get a compound where 14 year old girls are "marrying" 50 year old men; with resurgent Islamic fundamentalism you get total subjugation of women and absolute fanaticism taught to 5 year olds; and when you have a new system like Nazism, communism, and charismatic leaders like Pol Pot, you get millions of people killed.
Generally, the newer the cult, the more potential for danger it has until people become resistant to its nastier effects and the disease and the person have a general truce (as they do with Hepatitis C). What would happen if Scientology took over?
Christianity was actually crafted to not be dangerous, and you know what? It turned out to be fucking dangerous anyway. Crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, persecutions. WWJD?
I disagree. Christianity was not what caused such things. What caused them were people who wanted power/money justifying their actions and gaining followers through a distorted view of "Christianity". If not Christianity, than some other "just cause" could be invented to justify such actions (which is why there have been political cults, etc...). As you point about above, secular "greater good" causes, misused by charismatic leaders, can be just as dangerous. As far as i'm concerned, such belief systems are usually* benign unless they are misused by a charismatic leader, as any tool can be.
*but then again, Synanon, even without it's leader, still causes harm... a "standalone complex" of imitation mini-cults, who never realized their laughing man god, Chuck Dederich, was a fraud. IMO, this is because totalism is built into the belief system itself (coerced confessions, control over communication, etc... the "treatment methodology of CED"). It's become a self-replicating virus.
Give me an example of a great human evil that *did not* come about as the result of an all-encompassing belief system.
Right... now ask yourself how such belief systems are maintained and enforced? The answer, IMO is totalism (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html). If you can innoculate the population by showing them how (simply a belief system is not enough), historically, people have been controlled and manipulated by charismatic leaders and totalist rejiemes, you can prevent such things from (hopefully) arising in the future, on a large or small scale.
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Ghost Excellent points & insight.
This single page of this thread alone contains more critical thinking than CEDU's 2 1/2 years of 'holistic' education. Aka, fake 'emotional growth' and bunk academics taught by staff who were recruited at a Monster Truck show.
All the who did was make me want to take shite in an envelope and fedex it to Mel.
Ghost wrote:
Give me an example of a great human evil that *did not* come about as the result of an all-encompassing belief system..
Actually dish, This line shows there is no critical thinking by ghost. I guess we can *also* conclude that everyone involved in a believe system is evil. Just like Charles manson lived on a *farm* and therefore all *farmers* are evil.
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(http://http://blogs.technet.com/photos/gray_knowlton/images/2998979/original.aspx)
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Ghost Excellent points & insight.
This single page of this thread alone contains more critical thinking than CEDU's 2 1/2 years of 'holistic' education. Aka, fake 'emotional growth' and bunk academics taught by staff who were recruited at a Monster Truck show.
All the who did was make me want to take shite in an envelope and fedex it to Mel.
Ghost wrote:
Give me an example of a great human evil that *did not* come about as the result of an all-encompassing belief system..
Actually dish, This line shows there is no critical thinking by ghost. I guess we can *also* conclude that everyone involved in a believe system is evil. Just like Charles manson lived on a *farm* and therefore all *farmers* are evil.
How about: "I was abused in a program so therfore all programs are abusive"!!
...
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I'm as stoned as an old testament hooker in a synagogue full of rabbis.
You must be. Old Testament hookers and rabbis lived about a thousand years apart.
Dammit...
Joke killer!
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Who
Put your money where your mouth is.
Assemble your legion of "cured" broken teenagers.
Gather these countless graduates who are:
- not full of program speak
- not shoving their program values down others throats
- not mentioning how the program saved their lives every other sentence
aka
- well rounded
- intelligent
and fair minded people.
Bring them forward and provide evidence of your claim.
And ohhhhhh wow!! You'll find such a difference between them and me.
Guess what. I have a respectable well paying job like them. I have a lion's share of social trophies. For every reputable reference you can provide for yourself or your graduates I can provide 2.
You are not welcome here.
This isn't the Oprah Winfrey bullshit coffee talk session.
Did it get lonely in your pathetic sandbox? No one to play with?
Perhaps you received Bainfull directives to put more fires out or they wouldn't honor their compensation package?
You want to type on a computer with your diarrhea speak until your blue in the face???? Get out your Etch a Sketch and stroke yourself into oblivion within the pathetic 4 walled world that you call home.
What can one expect from a "bought and paid for", hired gun for an industry built on horse shit.
Why don't you call Stacy or Dana Wassermann and have them defend their father's toxic legacy?
Oh, that's right they've fallen off the face of the planet with my parent's retirement fund......HMMMM... how convenient.
Do me a favour - tomorrow, as you stare at Mel Wasserman's photo and blow Lon Woodbury, gently tickle his satchel for me.
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What I was doing was pointing out that if it's possible to fool inspectors when you're committing genocide, it's definitely possible to cover up a smaller crime. I'm not interested in the severity of what happens. I know if it can happen, it will happen. What interests me is how it can happen. Hitler was a political cult leader who got a little too popular and a little too much power... natural consequences of that social situation ensue. When there are similar patterns of totalist control, regardless of scale, abuse will occur to the maximum possible extent power allows... and where there is absolute power and no consequences (which can only happen in a dictatorship, really... you get genocide... each and every time.) Think about that.
The people of Poland knew basically everything there was to know about the extermination camps from their inception. There is massive testimony of this; see, e.g., Jan T. Gross. The Poles fought fiercely against Hitler but they did nothing to stop the trains. Eastern European anti-Semitism was Hitler's main consideration in establishing his network of death camps in Eastern Europe rather than Western Europe. Psy, you are wrong-headed and naive to think that a charismatic leader and a totalitarian system are what is needed to implement genocide. It requires the complicity of the entire people. Hitler knew that his death camps would be unacceptable to Western Europeans, even Germans!, and that his Final Solution had no chance of being realized there.
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What I was doing was pointing out that if it's possible to fool inspectors when you're committing genocide, it's definitely possible to cover up a smaller crime. I'm not interested in the severity of what happens. I know if it can happen, it will happen. What interests me is how it can happen. Hitler was a political cult leader who got a little too popular and a little too much power... natural consequences of that social situation ensue. When there are similar patterns of totalist control, regardless of scale, abuse will occur to the maximum possible extent power allows... and where there is absolute power and no consequences (which can only happen in a dictatorship, really... you get genocide... each and every time.) Think about that.
The people of Poland knew basically everything there was to know about the extermination camps from their inception.
Course they did. Villagers even gathered to watch the firing squads. Nobody gave a damn about the Jews (and if they did, they had best keep silent and do nothing or they would be right there next to em). It's what made them the perfect scapegoat.
There is massive testimony of this; see, e.g., Jan T. Gross. The Poles fought fiercely against Hitler but they did nothing to stop the trains. Eastern European anti-Semitism was Hitler's main consideration in establishing his network of death camps in Eastern Europe rather than Western Europe. Psy, you are wrong-headed and naive to think that a charismatic leader and a totalitarian system are what is needed to implement genocide. It requires the complicity of the entire people.
Agreed. So how does one gain the complicity and compliance of an entire people? Sheer overpowering is one option, where states can be dominated and the populace is too cowardly, or too oppressed to resist (not that it justifies what they did)... But in Germany's case... How did Hilter obtain power there? Here. Let me help you to a handy cartoon on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfko2bEofqc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfko2bEofqc)
Say what you like about Encyclopedia Dramatica and it's black comedy (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_comedy), but sometimes they post educational stuff (such as the above video)
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Thank you for you deep insight Albert Speer.
you
brown shirt.
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Thank you for you deep insight Albert Speer.
you
brown shirt.
My point being that if such re-education tactics and techinques (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html) (control over communication, obsessive demands for confession, doctrine over person, etc... totalist qualities) can be used to convince otherwise normal people to participate in genocide... you get where i'm heading?
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Psy -
I wasn't directing any comments to you ....
I was talking to the zombies.
- DDF
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So how does one gain the complicity and compliance of an entire people?
As far as genocide is concerned, Hitler was unable to obtain the complicity of West Europeans. He didn't obtain the complicity of the East Europeans, either, with your laundry list of "totalist" tricks. East European complicity was already there for the taking. That's why I blame anti-Semitism for the Holocaust, and dismiss your charismatic leader explanation.
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Dishdutyfugitive wrote:
Who
Put your money where your mouth is.
Assemble your legion of "cured" broken teenagers.
Gather these countless graduates who are:
- not full of program speak
- not shoving their program values down others throats
- not mentioning how the program saved their lives every other sentence
aka
- well rounded
- intelligent
and fair minded people.
Bring them forward and provide evidence of your claim.
(http://http://www.innovatingtowin.com/innovating_to_win/images/SixSigmaBellCurve.jpg)
An easier way to explain it to you is this: (Normal curve representing all programs and/or their graduates)
Either ends of this normal curve contain extreme results (6 sigma and beyond). At one end are those kids who are full of program speak, shoving their program values down others throats, telling everyone they meet how the program saved their lives etc. At the other end are those kids who talk about how all programs are abusive, spew their repetitive hatred all over web sites like this one or were abused by the system etc. The area within the six sigma area (99.9997%) represent the rest of the kids and the varying degrees of which they were helped by the industry (at one end not so much and at the other extremely well).
Regulation is most likely going to have a profound effect on all the programs outside of the 1 sigma area. The ones at the low end will be forced out of business or will require outside loans to make the necessary changes to conform to standards. The programs at the high end will have to put redundant processes in place which will not add value but will drive up the cost of their program thereby making them less competitive with the others. This may result in a decrease in services to the children.
And ohhhhhh wow!! You'll find such a difference between them and me.
Guess what. I have a respectable well paying job like them. I have a lion's share of social trophies. For every reputable reference you can provide for yourself or your graduates I can provide 2.
Of course you do!! As stated above, the majority (99.9997%) of the kids move on and have happy lives like yourself. You work and interact with them everyday, DDS. You don’t need nor expect me to post their names here on fornits. Most of the graduates don’t like to talk about their time spent in programs because it reminds them of how abusive they were towards their parents, siblings (in many cases)............. etc which ultimately drove them to be placed outside the home. Many see it as a “speed bump” in their lives and not something to be necessarily proud of or constantly brought up in casual conversation.
You are not welcome here.
This isn't the Oprah Winfrey bullshit coffee talk session.
Sorry to hear that. There are many of us here who fight long and hard for personal freedoms one of which is freedom of speech. There are way too many people/societies in the world (like yourself) trying (and succeeding) to suppress other peoples ideas and thoughts and preventing them from expressing themselves.
Even though you attack and try to suppress those ideas which don’t align exactly with your own you will always be welcome here, Dish, as long as fornits stays true to its charter and ideals.
Did it get lonely in your pathetic sandbox? No one to play with?
Perhaps you received Bainfull directives to put more fires out or they wouldn't honor their compensation package?
You want to type on a computer with your diarrhea speak until your blue in the face? Get out your Etch a Sketch and stroke yourself into oblivion within the pathetic 4 walled world that you call home.
What can one expect from a "bought and paid for", hired gun for an industry built on horse shit.
Why don't you call Stacy or Dana Wassermann and have them defend their father's toxic legacy?
Oh, that's right they've fallen off the face of the planet with my parent's retirement fund......HMMMM... how convenient.
Do me a favour - tomorrow, as you stare at Mel Wasserman's photo and blow Lon Woodbury, gently tickle his satchel for me.
Not sure what all that means, but it is nice to have a place to write it all down isn’t it?
...
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When you visualize TheWho's graph as the average quality of facilities marketed as programs, including all NATSAP members and everything marketed as a TBS/RTC, putting Tranquility Bay on the left, CCM on the right, ASR in the middle, and a reasonable standard of therapeutic care about eight standard deviations to the right, you begin to understand the true scope of the problem.
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http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:Ys ... d=13&gl=us (http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:YsrBC_cX37MJ:www.heal-online.org/news.htm+Hr+5876+Fornits&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=13&gl=us)
I found this on Heal, just in case no one saw it.
TEEN LIBERTY/TEEN TORTURE INDUSTRY NEWS
Fire destroys dorm at school for troubled teens--June 26th, 2008--
ABBEVILLE, S.C. --Authorities say fire destroyed a dorm at a boarding school for troubled teens in Abbeville County, but no one was injured in the blaze. Carolina Springs Academy Director Elaine Davis says several students returning to the dorm after lunch Wednesday smelled smoke. Fire officials say the blaze burned for more than two hours and destroyed the dorm at the school which specializes in helping students that aren't reaching their potential because of their behavior. The school has moved the boys to another dorm on campus. The Red Cross plans to give them bedding, clothes and school supplies. (Webmaster Note: Carolina Springs Academy is a WWASPS program and confirmedly abusive. It should be closed, permanently.)
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(http://http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/7949/bellcurvezl3.th.gif) (http://http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bellcurvezl3.gif)
There I filled it in and fixed it for everyone.
;D
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Here's an old article that I just happened to come across, and which rightfully belongs in this thread...
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Dormitory struck by fire at school in Due West (http://http://www.independentmail.com/news/2008/jun/25/dormitory-struck-fire-school-due-west/)
Craig Stanley · Anderson Independent Mail
Posted June 25, 2008 at 10:57 p.m.
DUE WEST — A fire destroyed a dormitory at a boarding school in Abbeville County, school officials said Wednesday.
The blaze at Carolina Springs Academy in Due West was noticed by students after lunchtime, shortly before 1 p.m. Wednesday, said Tracy Alberson, medical coordinator for the school.
The fire is reported to have completely leveled the entire one story building.
The dormitory housed 57 boys, all of whom were safe from the fire, officials said.
"We did a head count and notified all of the parents about the situation," Alberson said.
Alberson said the boys are being housed in another dormitory on the school's campus.
"The boys are a little devastated. They just lost everything they had," Alberson said. "But we have people that are donating, and local churches. The Red Cross has been helping out tremendously."
Alberson said she believes the fire began in the attic of the building.
Fire officials still were on the scene as of 5:30 p.m. Wednesday trying to determine the cause of the fire.
Abbeville County Fire Department officials could not immediately be reached for comment Wednesday.
© 2008 Anderson Independent Mail.
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Here's a pic of this fire, originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=32292&p=391441#p390040) in the '2nd try as Magnolia Christian School (Carolina Springs) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=32292)' thread. Carolina Springs Academy is currently in the process of re-inventing itself as Magnolia Christian School.
(http://http://media.independentmail.com/media/img/photos/2010/12/10/1211springsfire_t607.jpg)
In 2008 a dormitory at Carolina Springs Academy was destroyed in a fire.
Photo: Chuck Bagwell
2010 The E.W. Scripps Co.
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Sympathetic, but also help the community feel the warmth
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And a great photo of an underpaid ,undertrained volunteer fireman.......doin it wrong. Hey rocket engineer...which way is the wind blowing? O yeah your signal 5 is fucked. Wow. ::OMG::