Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 19, 2007, 03:56:49 AM
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What helped you get back on track?
people, friends, family, therepists?
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Friends....and drugs...why do you ask?
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lots of weed
good freinds
college
tearing HLA a new one on fornits
Tearing HLA a new one in real life
psilicybin therapy
DMT therapy
back packing around europe
Standing up for myself and my belifs agressively is an ongoing "therapy" which really helps. whenever i see Mormons, i stare at them untill they come up to me and ask "would you like to learn more about jesus?". I then proceeed to offend them as hard as i can. one time i stood there and poured an entire 2L coke over their heads. that felt amazing. another time i follwed them around while they asked other people, and whenever they popped the question to some stranger i start saying "jesus porn, jesus porn, i like jesus porn. would you like to suck some jesus dick? these guys love the jesus dick so much they'll suck your dick!" etc. etc. this is NY so i get more laughs than angries. now the mormons avoid my neighborhood alltogether.
I also had the honor of (verbally) reaming Gulliani (rah rah..911..terror..rah rah...danger...911...rah rah...) himself in person, in front of dozens of potential old, jewish donors who withdrew their donations immediately.
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Sports
travelling
music
stand up comedy
bonafide academics
& laughing my ass off at all the fucking wanna be Dr. Phil douche bags in the world trying to make money off vulnerable people with their horseshit cult .
Gee that's pretty much everything we couldn't do at CEDU.
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Breaking contact with my father.
Weed.
Good friends.
Time.
Research.
::bandit:: :smokin:
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lots of weed
good freinds
college
tearing HLA a new one on fornits
Tearing HLA a new one in real life
psilicybin therapy
DMT therapy
back packing around europe
Standing up for myself and my belifs agressively is an ongoing "therapy" which really helps. whenever i see Mormons, i stare at them untill they come up to me and ask "would you like to learn more about jesus?". I then proceeed to offend them as hard as i can. one time i stood there and poured an entire 2L coke over their heads. that felt amazing. another time i follwed them around while they asked other people, and whenever they popped the question to some stranger i start saying "jesus porn, jesus porn, i like jesus porn. would you like to suck some jesus dick? these guys love the jesus dick so much they'll suck your dick!" etc. etc. this is NY so i get more laughs than angries. now the mormons avoid my neighborhood alltogether.
I also had the honor of (verbally) reaming Gulliani (rah rah..911..terror..rah rah...danger...911...rah rah...) himself in person, in front of dozens of potential old, jewish donors who withdrew their donations immediately.
What does Giuliani have to do with the program you were in? Anyway, that's funny how you were fucking with those Mormons.
Have you ever seen "Napolean Dynamite"? Apparently Mormons had a lot to do with that film.
Music (playing in a band, etc) was a good thing for me after getting out, too...
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Proving them (program, parents) wrong - aceing classes, working at a brilliant fucking job, making more money than my parents and/or AARC staff.
High adrenaline stuff like skateboarding down hills at 45 mph.
Severing communications w/ my mother - I've realized that interacting with her is still damaging. By any objective standards I am doing phenomenally well in my life - but she continues to cast this shadow over everything I do because years ago I smoked pot a few times. To add to that, it hurts so badly that she now knows exactly what happened to me there and still defends them (and herself), saying they were only trying to help. What part of psychological torture and sexual assault was supposed to be helpful? Anyway, not talking to her is the most positive thing I can do in my life. These deadend arguments that always end with my questioning her sanity and/or humanity do me no good.
And the converse of the above: surrounding myself with strong, intelligent, sane people.
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Just an observation here, but has anyone noticed how it was usually the mothers who made the ultimate decision to "incarcerate" us?
hmmmmmmmm......
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Let's not forget Step-Mom's who tell the bread winning father:
"He goes to CEDU or I leave you"
Fucking whoreclown.
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Just an observation here, but has anyone noticed how it was usually the mothers who made the ultimate decision to "incarcerate" us?
hmmmmmmmm......
I guess I'm one of the exceptions. My dad walked all over my mom during and after their marriage. He's the one who heard about Straight from his EAP through the St. Pete Times. He convinced my mother that I would DIE if I didn't go, convinced her that I would DIE if she pulled me (she made small noises at first, but backed off when he and other Straight parents went off on her).
I didn't (couldn't because of their interference w/ custody of my kids) severe contact with him until after my kids were grown and it wasn't until then that I was truly able to let go of a lot of the shit from that place. He still believed in it for so long that I just felt still trapped in there even though I had long since gotten out.
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In the case of the program I was in, it was almost always the mother with pushing the program - the father usually kind of reluctantly dragged along.
I really think there is an interesting observation there. Some sort of Medea complex - the mother driven to kill her children for motives unknown.
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Let's not forget Step-Mom's who tell the bread winning father:
"He goes to CEDU or I leave you"
Fucking whoreclown.
Made me think of Suicidal Tendencies' video of the song "Institutionalized."
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Let's not forget Step-Mom's who tell the bread winning father:
"He goes to CEDU or I leave you"
Fucking whoreclown.
Hahahahaha, yep I got this. Thank God the bitch finally died. It took my family a year to call me up, and tell me. My father didn't want me to dance on her grave, or disrupt the funeral, I am sure I would have. I did anyways, however it was a year later.
Back to the subject on hand......who/what helped me when I got out of the program?
1. Aunt/Uncle/Cousins
2. My high school sweetheart of 3 1/2 years
3. Grateful Dead, and dropping LSD
4. XTC
5. Friends
6. Pretending like it never happened.
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Just a pepsi
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Just a pepsi
:rofl:
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Wait - we decided?
My best interest?
Fuck I was so pissed when I got sent to Idaho in 88. It meant no more shows or half pipes. Going to shows were good fucking times.
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Wait - we decided?
My best interest?
Fuck I was so pissed when I got sent to Idaho in 88. It meant no more shows or half pipes. Going to shows were good fucking times.
Some guys that finished Straight Inc before me and knew that I was into punk music in my 'druggie past' (glad those guys were around when I got out) turned me on to Suicidal Tendencies; it had just come out that year.... "How fitting," I recall thinking to myself at the time..
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I remember my first year singing the lyrics to an RKL song over and over and over
I'm Locked in this cell,
With no chance of escape.
I've got to get out,
'Cause this my mind can't take.
I've fucked authority right in the ass,
Now authority gonna fuck me right back.
I'm in an institution and I can't get out.
I'm in an institution and there's no remorse.
I'm Locked in this cell,
With no chance of escape.
I've got to get out,
'Cause this my mind can't take.
I've fucked authority right in the ass,
Now authority gonna fuck me right back.
I'm in an institution and I can't get out.
I'm in an institution and there's no remorse.
Locked in this cell,
With no chance of escape.
I've got to get out,
'Cause this my mind can't take.
I've fucked authority right in the ass,
Now authority gonna fuck me right back.
I'm in an institution and I can't get out.
I'm in an institution and there's no remorse.
No remorse.
http://www.rkl.com/# (http://www.rkl.com/#)
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6. Pretending like it never happened.
This. Program, what program? I was in a boarding school for gifted teens and we had all sorts of fun... :-?
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Wait a minute..... People have recovered??????[/color] ::huh::
After 20 + years I still have not recovered. The assholes that support the program say "Sorry it turned out that way for you"
Now I'm not saying that I don't have a good life, but I'm being real when I say that I'm scarred for life by the program that I was in. Hence the name I've chosen "Botched Programming"
But the things that have helped ease the pain,
(1) Good Job
(2) Live near the beach in Florida
(3) Fun, fun, fun and more
(4) Tons of weed and alcohol
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Dang. Does kinda seem like the moms and stepmoms, doesn't it?
Auntie Em
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Friends....and drugs...why do you ask?
to apply to the self. Figuring out why some kids seem destroyed, and some recover
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i should that i am a teen, who is completely isolated from everyone and everything. I am completely alienated
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Dang. Does kinda seem like the moms and stepmoms, doesn't it?
Auntie Em
Yup - the wives are going to fall for the hyper-sensitive , super mushy, lovefest, cry your face off shit much faster than a man over 40 is.
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Guest wrote:
i should [add] that i am a teen, who is completely isolated from everyone and everything. I am completely alienated.
I'm sorry to hear that, but I think you have come to the right place.
This forum has helped me connect to supportive people who understand what abusive settings these programs are. I am not a survivor, but have a family member in one of the schools, a niece who has been kept completely isolated for 2 years (only her parents have had contact). The experience has made me feel alienated from family members--not just her parents, but also those family members who are unwilling to do anything to get this girl out of there because it means, well, you know, confrontation and unpleasantness with the parents.
Fornits has helped me get questions answered--even when the answers are scary--and people have nearly all been very kind and sympathetic. Hope you find the same.
Auntie Em
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FOUR NUTS DID![/color][/b]
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Fornits basically served as therapy in terms of validating my experiences and forcing me to evaluate program specific patterns. It also radicalized me in terms of increasing a hyper awareness of social constraints.
It also affected my parenting. I have one easy breezy kid and one fucking hell of a handful, and I am being very careful not to parent reactively. Not to grasp at the "lifelines" the school throws out to make your kid conform, while crushing his spirit. (Fornits has done an excellent job at reminding me NOT to rely on meds/institutions for help. To just be more creative and ride it out.)
So: Time, Fornits, and a realization that I have more control over the trajectory of my life (this is for you, DDF, know you love the word!).... also a really horrific failed marriage forced me to learn to take more control of my life. Yeah, throw in a total break down and re-emergence. (Anne -- your stories of an ex who tried to control you post marriage sent shivers down my spine. And to have your KoolAid swilling folks help in this endeavor--UGH! I thought I was in a difficult position, but hearing your story, and that you made it through, was inspirational.)
As for Moms. Yep, it was mine who put me in. My Dad was a workaholic who was never home. Even though he didn't see eye to eye on CEDU, he felt he had to back her up, since she was at home. However, to his credit, he is the reason I wasn't sent back when I made it back home after splitting.
I thought it was Social Distortion that sang the Institutionalized song. The "all I wanted was a pepsi song." I was just telling my friend yesterday about that song and how it reminded me of some program parents.
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Suicidal Tendencies Institutionalized Lyrics
Sometimes I try to do things, and it just don't turn out the way I wanted to and I get real frustrated, it's like, I take my time and I try real hard, but no matter what I do and no matter what I try it never works out, it's like I concentrate on it real hard, but it never works out, it's like I need some time to figure these things out, but there's always someone there going:
- Hey Mike, you know, we been noticing you've been having alot of problems lately, you know, and like maybe you should talk about it, you'd feel alot better.
And I go:
- No, it's ok, I now have some problems, I'll figure it out myself, just
leave me alone I'll figure it out.
And they go:
- Why don't you talk about it, you'll feel alot better?
And I go:
- No, I don't want to, just leave me alone, I'll figure it out myself!
And they keep on bugging me and it builds up inside, it builds up inside...
So you're gonna be institutionalized
You'll come out brainwashed with bloodshot eyes
You won't have any say
They'll brainwash you until you see their way
I'm not crazy - institutionalized
You're the one who's crazy - institutionalized
You're driving me crazy - institutionalized
They stuck me in an institution
Said it was the only solution
To give me the needed professional help
To protect me from the enemy, myself
I was sitting in my room, and I was like staring at the walls thinking about
everything but then again I was thinking about nothing, and then my mom came
in and I didn't notice she was there and she calls my name and I didn't hear
her and then she started screaming:
- Mike, Mike!
And I go:
- What, what's the matter?
She goes:
- What's the matter with you?
I say:
- Nothing mom.
She goes:
- Don't tell me nothing, you're on drugs!
I go:
- No mom, I'm not on drugs, I'm ok, I'm just thinking, you know, why don't
you get me a Pepsi?
She goes:
- No, you're on drugs, you're crazy, normal people won't be acting that way!
I go:
- Mom, I'm all right, I'm just thinking, you know, so why don't you, like
give me a Pepsi?
And she goes:
- No, you're crazy!
All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi, and she wouldn't give it to me,
just one Pepsi.
They give you a white shirt with long sleeves
Tied around you're back, you're treated like thieves
Drug you up because they're lazy
It's too much work to help a crazy
I'm not crazy - institutionalized
You're the one who's crazy - institutionalized
You're driving me crazy - institutionalized
They stuck me in an institution
Said it was the only solution
To give me the needed professional help
To protect me from the enemy, myself
I was sitting in my room and my mom and my dad came in and they pulled up a
chair and they sat down, they go:
- Mike, we need to talk to you.
And I said:
- Okay, what's the matter?
They go:
- Well me and your mom, we been noticing lately you've been having alot of problems, and you haven't been acting like yourself, and we're afraid that you're going to hurt somebody, and we're afraid that you're gonna hurt yourself, so we decided that it would be in your best interest if we put
you somewhere where you could get the help that you need... (Sound familar?)
And I said:
- Wait, what are we talking about?! We decided?! My best interest?! How can you know, how can you say what my best interest is? What are you trying to say? I'm crazy? When I went to your schools, I went to your churches, I went to your institutional learning facilities. So how can you say that I'm crazy?
They say they're gonna fix my brain
Alleviate my suffering and my pain
But by the time they fix my head
Mentally I'll be dead
I'm not crazy - institutionalized
You're the one who's crazy - institutionalized
You're driving me crazy - institutionalized
They stuck me in an institution
Said it was the only solution
To give me the needed professional help
To protect me from the enemy, myself
It doesn't matter, I'm trying to get hit by a car anyway.
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just one pepsi
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By the way--its not that the Moms are all soft going for the crying shit.
No, mine was hardened cold.
That's what happens when you party instead of parent and then all the sudden your kid is a teenager with problems and you don't have the skills or resilience to deal with them. You resent them because they aren't making your life easy, and you are all too happy to stick 'em where you can't see 'em. Au revoir, my sweet child. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
She believed what they told her 'cause she wanted to.
I forgive her now, because I'm charge of finding her a nice nursing home.
ha ha (just kidding. I think.)
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By the way--its not that the Moms are all soft going for the crying shit.
No, mine was hardened cold.
That's what happens when you party instead of parent and then all the sudden your kid is a teenager with problems and you don't have the skills or resilience to deal with them. You resent them because they aren't making your life easy, and you are all too happy to stick 'em where you can't see 'em. Au revoir, my sweet child. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
She believed what they told her 'cause she wanted to.
I forgive her now, because I'm charge of finding her a nice nursing home.
ha ha (just kidding. I think.)
Yeah.... my mother was in no way "soft for the crying shit". She too was cold, hard and calculatedly making her decisions. I just think it's a lot easier for mothers to choose that role if it suits their purposes. I really at this point lean towards the theory that some parents are simply malicious and malevolent towards their children - and that mothers more frequently choose this kind of subtle fucking over of their kids than more overt and "masculine" forms of abuse.
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Did someone mention the medea complex?
my mom had that, precisely. Hurt the kids to get back at the husband. Now her husband's left her, and she doesn't have her kids anymore
Racheal, do your siblings still speak to your parents? Or, to you?
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Well all this parent bashing has me thinking.
Did YOU know what the program was like BEFORE you went there?
No?
Well neither do the parents!
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You're right the parents get completely bamboozeled before during and after. They don't know what really goes on there. These places have their sales pitch very fine tuned.
So, take the parent bashing with a grain of salt. The former students have some justification in feeling betrayed. We were kids when we went through the experience. The parents were adults. Therefore the parents were in a better position to see through the smoke and mirrors.
Either way when former students post we have much to legitimately vent - even 20 years down the road. I have found no other channel so effective to blow this TBS steam off. Allow us that.
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Not all parents are equal. Some, especially those whose kids go voluntarily, both parents and kids thinking they're going off to some cool sleepaway camp, can't be blamed.
But the parents who had their kids abducted, who did not remove them when their kids reported abuse, or respond to obvious "red flags," are to blame.
Most parents' who-put-their-kids-away betrayal didn't start with the institutionalization Most of these parents are abusive and negligent towards their kids from birth.
They've their kids abducted and institutionalized not because the kid is a strung out herion junkie, but because the kid goes out without their permission, ( trying to escape being kept prisoner in their own home) or get suspended from school, (while dealing with the turmolt of having insane, abusive parents) or don't want to go to school. (they're being bullied, or not learning anything)
In other words, parents who have they're kids abducted because their kids are 100% nommal, and being nuts, they can't deal with normal
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its a slow process. its been over ten years and i came home from the gym crying today because i still am messed up from the brainwashing.
my mom had no idea what to do i was cutting myself and not going to school and all sorts of messed up. she bought the insurance company and ed consultants claim that it is like an outward bound adventure program with therapists. i only recently told her about some of the abuse. she cried and said what was i saposed to do you would have died. agreed i would have and the freezing cold and subsequent abuse oddly enough gave me a reason to live.
so now i sit here typing because im still have attachment issues and abandonment issues.
helping me recover is going back to the depths ... i work in these programs now because if i dont some one who is abusive probably will
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and after getting all teary eyed i realize i forgot to answer the question.
[redacted on request by psy] (personal identifying details)
im not angry about all of it any more well maybe angry that people are greedy and easily manipulated more sad. feeling my anger though that helped to.
letting go
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you now work at a program?
that doesn't make sense to me?
how are you effecting change there? or are you just taking up space so someone else evil can't work there?
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I have worked at a few programs.
Am i affecting change? i would like to think so. Have i gotten in a lot of trouble yes can i list what i have done here to do so no because then i cant continue to work on the inside. Programs is all i know i do what i know. some staff are brainwashed and do what they are told i feel sorry for them. some, most, are fuct up power trippers.
can i de-escalate a kid yes. can i prevent restraints yes. can i document abuse yes. can i change program policy, to a certain degree.
the advantage to wilderness program employment was that the bosses had no idea what i was doing out there.
the disadvantage to residential is that the bosses have more control.
do i do what they tell me to do, no. am i taking up space, maybe. can i report sexual abuse to the authorities, yes.
so you tell me, if you had been through it could you work any other job knowing what goes on everyday. i know i can prevent things on my shift. so should i sit at home typing at my computer and hope things will change?
hope helps, no matter in what form, hope helps when inncarcerated
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hey if your a moderator and reading this or you know how to get intouch with the moderators or you can figer out how to edit a post in re reading my above post with the details about what i do to get over it. (slowmotion)
i realized that anyone who works where i have worked or do work and reads this forum and sees those details will pretty much know its me based on those details. it says where im from and what i like to do. so can someone help me to get this deleated im certain i will loose my job. thank you!
(doesnt it suck to fear your employer so much)
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hey if your a moderator and reading this or you know how to get intouch with the moderators or you can figer out how to edit a post in re reading my above post with the details about what i do to get over it. (slowmotion)
i realized that anyone who works where i have worked or do work and reads this forum and sees those details will pretty much know its me based on those details. it says where im from and what i like to do. so can someone help me to get this deleated im certain i will loose my job. thank you!
(doesnt it suck to fear your employer so much)
Look. I am really not supposed to do this, but ginger is asleep and i'll make a judgement call. Check your email.
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Nice catch. This is perfectly cool with me. So long as you can be reasonably sure that the person requesting the edit is really the author. That's the whole of the law on that as far as I'm concerned. I wish more people would register so they can edit their own posts but I fully understand that that takes a little bit of trust and familiarity with fornits admins as well as how the software works. So right on, write on... rampant talking out in group, ya hear?
To the anon staffer, blessings to ya! I bet you are doing some good for some of those kids. But for your own long term interest, I hope you'll start making other plans. The longer you stay cloistered in the twilight zone the harder it will be to adjust to the more commonly accepted reality.
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well said Antigen.
While it's needed and admirable for him/her to work there and try to prevent harm I agree with your advice. Especially if he/she is still having a rough time sorting out their own experience.
You have to come up for air at some point - get refreshed and then get back in it.
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Interesting about how a lot of people here said that their moms were the ones who spearheaded the placement. Mine was exactly the opposite. My dad and stepmom were the ones who were hardcore, although all four of my parents wanted me to go. (and I don't think that my stepmom convinced my dad. They are like two peas in a pod in terms of how alike they think. It's disgusting. Although if anything, he was probably feeling protective of her, since both of them thought I was going to try to kill them.) I wasn't living with my mom, since she was in London at the time. I was living with my dad, so he and my stepmom were the ones who had to deal with me. I know that they both loved the parent workshops, whereas my mom thought they were ridiculous. She candidly said to my aunt years later that RMA did nothing for me, and didn't help me out at all. Not sure why she didn't tell me that, though. She has also said that she feels bad because it seems that everything she and my dad tried to do for me didn't work... placements, therapists, shrinks, meds, etc. What does that tell you, guys?
Most parents' who-put-their-kids-away betrayal didn't start with the institutionalization Most of these parents are abusive and negligent towards their kids from birth.
Not always true. In fact, I would say mostly not true. I was very close to being a "Parr baby" (RMA term for people who were kidnapped up to the school) if the "lie to your kid" trick didn't work. Fortunately, it did.
My parents were anything but negligent. They were your typical overprotective neurotic jewish parents. (Well, my mom more than my dad. He's very cold.) The reason for the deception had nothing to do with abuse and negligence, it had to do with fear. My parents, all four of them, were apparently scared to death of me. (I know, they are pussies.) As such, they never thought in a million years that I would willingly go, and they were right. You're looking at someone who has punched his mother right in the face. That doesn't excuse the deception, but think about it.. my parents were scared of me already, now... thanks to RMA admissions, they are most likely terrified, my personae most likely demonized to the point where I am completely unable to be reasoned with.
As for the question at hand...
What helped me recover?
College. That pretty much covers everything. Friends, sex, booze, drugs, music, parties, oh yeah, and school.
You try to talk program shit in college, you won't make many friends. My freshman year was quite lonely.
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You try to talk program shit in college, you won't make many friends. My freshman year was quite lonely.
This, I realized... The bubble-world of program does NOT resemble reality whatsoever....
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Steps leading to my healing from Provo Canyon School (in chronological order):
*breaking down and sharing my story with a trusted adult, who was the first person to tell me that this was in fact a terrible, abusive experience which I should not have had to go through, and therefor this was the first time I realized that my feelings and symptoms I was experiencing post-PCS were valid (anxiety, fear, nightmares, confusion, ect...)
*taking psychology and sociology classes in college- this is when I realized just how malignant PCS was; a destructive program with no scientific basis, implemented by uneducated individuals with no professional or university level training.
*Explaining my findings to my parents; demanding an explanation for their actions, leading to apologies from my mother (who was primarily responsible for sending me there) and silence from my father (who can never admit he was wrong, but was not " the decider" in my situation)
*Nursing school- seeing firsthand how medical profesionals behave and treat patients, learning that treatment programs MUST have basis in sound scientific fact and accepted theory in order to be accepted by the mainstream medical community (thats why psychiatric hospitals and the majority of healthcare provider DO NOT refer children to places like PCS)
*continued discussion with my mother regarding her decision to send me to PCS; reinforcing to her daily that what she did was wrong and irresponsible and that my anger will not resolve so easily and that I may never forgive her. Continue to hate her for this.
*posting on fornits and other sites; talking with other "survivors"; getting the information out there about this place and hoping that if my parents had access to this information that they would have made a better decision.
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I don't recall recovering...
I did proceed w/the 'expected' accomplishments.
get married;
have kids;
get older...
marriage failed;
don't make good babies;
I'm older, that's for sure...
Time is all that's really helped: It was long ago, and far away, for me
but there've been LOTS of repairs over the years,
so there is no forgetting...
OR recovering
Sometimes I even convince myself there was no damage done!!
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Fornits basically served as therapy in terms of validating my experiences and forcing me to evaluate program specific patterns. It also radicalized me in terms of increasing a hyper awareness of social constraints.
It also affected my parenting. I have one easy breezy kid and one fucking hell of a handful, and I am being very careful not to parent reactively. Not to grasp at the "lifelines" the school throws out to make your kid conform, while crushing his spirit. (Fornits has done an excellent job at reminding me NOT to rely on meds/institutions for help. To just be more creative and ride it out.)
So: Time, Fornits, and a realization that I have more control over the trajectory of my life (this is for you, DDF, know you love the word!).... also a really horrific failed marriage forced me to learn to take more control of my life. Yeah, throw in a total break down and re-emergence. (Anne -- your stories of an ex who tried to control you post marriage sent shivers down my spine. And to have your KoolAid swilling folks help in this endeavor--UGH! I thought I was in a difficult position, but hearing your story, and that you made it through, was inspirational.)
As for Moms. Yep, it was mine who put me in. My Dad was a workaholic who was never home. Even though he didn't see eye to eye on CEDU, he felt he had to back her up, since she was at home. However, to his credit, he is the reason I wasn't sent back when I made it back home after splitting.
I thought it was Social Distortion that sang the Institutionalized song. The "all I wanted was a pepsi song." I was just telling my friend yesterday about that song and how it reminded me of some program parents.
Aww, I missed this first time around. Thanks. Very much. I think that did as much or more damage than the two years spent inside. How they tore my family apart and turned us all against each other. It was absolute, pure insanity for damn near twenty years. My ex's parents still try that kind of crap with the kids, but thankfully they're a helluva lot smarter than I was at that age and they don't allow it. My youngest daughter is buying a condo.....I'm so proud of her. She's 20, is getting the financing on her own, has the down payment on her own and is fully capable of handling the pmts and maintenance fees. My ex father in law keeps trying to insist that he co-sign for her, "just in case" she gets into trouble. They haven't been able to control the kids through fear, like they did their father and I, so they use carrots to dangle. My youngest used to fall for it....they'd buy the car for her, but that meant she was subject to their moods and whims and the car was taken away at the drop of a hat. A few months ago she got into a small accident....grandpa helped her get the car fixed, but went through her garbage. Seriously, they were dropping the car off to be fixed and she gathered up all the garbage in a bag, was getting ready to throw it away and he came up and snatched it out of her hand and told her he was going to go through it. Her response was, "eh, so what. I've got nothing to hide". AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Oh my god, it drove me NUTS.
Anyway, now he wants to co-sign a damn loan for her even though she qualifies on her own!!! Shit, if all he was wanting to do was 'help out if she got in trouble with pmts'....why not just make a couple of pmts for her if she ever does get into trouble? Nope, because that wouldn't give them control. Ugghhh. It just makes me sick.
I also remember when my oldest was about 16 and really giving me hell. Scared the living shit out of me for about 6 years. Her dad and his parents sent her and her 'good kid' sister, unbeknownst to me, to a one day (thank god that was all) "boot camp" (was supposed to be a preview of what they'd get if they didn't shape up). They were actively trying to put the older into the full-fledged boot camp or another, comparable program. They were saying all the same deadinsanejail bullshit. Yeah.......OVER MY DEAD FUCKING BODY!!!!. I fought like hell and thank god I won. But it just struck me that not only did Str8 ruin my life, it damn near ruined my kids' lives. In a number of different ways.
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(http://http://planetsmilies.net/smoking-smiley-5420.gif) (http://http://planetsmilies.net/smoking-smiley-5432.gif)
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Some of this is just so ridiculous I don't know how to respond. First of all, I doubt most of what I read just because that's how I was raised. To question what I am told and decide how possible it actually is. In this case I have to say I don't know, but I have my reservations. With that said, I think the teapot might be calling the kettle black.
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CAFETY
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Sue Scheff!
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after straight I removed it from the front of my mind but was still affected by the programming and I was lost.. then my husband came alone and he was the program all over.. however I failed to see the conection at the time. I just thought now here is someone telling me what to do and I dont know what I am suppose to be doing as program shattered all self confidence so will listen to this man.. he was authoritative and seemed to believe what he said???? I doubted myself and had no fam or support so I went along with his direction.. rebeled and yelled alot then finally made the connection back to the program and have been trying to heal ever since.. 2 yrs now.. we are still together and now I just don't give him or anyone else my power anymore.. I admit I am all powerful and trust in myself!!!!!
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Aww, I missed this first time around. Thanks. Very much. I think that did as much or more damage than the two years spent inside. How they tore my family apart and turned us all against each other. It was absolute, pure insanity for damn near twenty years. My ex's parents still try that kind of crap with the kids, but thankfully they're a helluva lot smarter than I was at that age and they don't allow it. My youngest daughter is buying a condo.....I'm so proud of her. She's 20, is getting the financing on her own, has the down payment on her own and is fully capable of handling the pmts and maintenance fees. My ex father in law keeps trying to insist that he co-sign for her, "just in case" she gets into trouble. They haven't been able to control the kids through fear, like they did their father and I, so they use carrots to dangle. My youngest used to fall for it....they'd buy the car for her, but that meant she was subject to their moods and whims and the car was taken away at the drop of a hat. A few months ago she got into a small accident....grandpa helped her get the car fixed, but went through her garbage. Seriously, they were dropping the car off to be fixed and she gathered up all the garbage in a bag, was getting ready to throw it away and he came up and snatched it out of her hand and told her he was going to go through it. Her response was, "eh, so what. I've got nothing to hide". AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Oh my god, it drove me NUTS.
Anyway, now he wants to co-sign a damn loan for her even though she qualifies on her own!!! Shit, if all he was wanting to do was 'help out if she got in trouble with pmts'....why not just make a couple of pmts for her if she ever does get into trouble? Nope, because that wouldn't give them control. Ugghhh. It just makes me sick.
I really hope your daughter does not get too tempted by her grandfather's "offer". I think your instincts are correct. If she considers letting him to co-sign, please have her sit down with an attorney so she understands exactly how that would impact her. Co-signing is one thing ( and I'm sure he will rub it in every chance he gets that he is liable for the loan and it affects his credit) but if he manages to manipulate it so that he is on title ( and once he has her on the hook and interested in his "help", he may try it) then he has an ownership interest and you know he is going to enter the house when she is not there and go through her things. It will be nightmare city.
I have had a lot of experience with contracts, real estate, mortgages and the law. I also have experience observing people who have signed legal documents without a clear understanding of how they would be affected ( witness the mortgage mess we are in now!). You may want to help pre-empt his offer and any temptation she may feel by having her go over all of her documents with an attorney so he or she can explain how she would be impacted by that "offer". If she does decide to take the "offer" please, please, have an attorney go over any documents before she signs or at least during the three day right of recission so she has an escape. If grandpa Dickwad is anything like my ex he will make a nice-sounding offer but there will be many strings attached and at the last minute he will try to manipulate things to serve his own agenda. My guess would be he would try to convince her she needs his help and then try to get on title so he can have control. Bravo to you for raising a real woman! I hope she sticks to her guns; this country is in a shitload of hurt by people who have thrown away their rights for some bogus "safety". Good luck; I would love to see how this turns out!
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I really hope your daughter does not get too tempted by her grandfather's "offer". I think your instincts are correct. If she considers letting him to co-sign, please have her sit down with an attorney so she understands exactly how that would impact her. Co-signing is one thing ( and I'm sure he will rub it in every chance he gets that he is liable for the loan and it affects his credit) but if he manages to manipulate it so that he is on title ( and once he has her on the hook and interested in his "help", he may try it) then he has an ownership interest and you know he is going to enter the house when she is not there and go through her things. It will be nightmare city.
I have had a lot of experience with contracts, real estate, mortgages and the law. I also have experience observing people who have signed legal documents without a clear understanding of how they would be affected ( witness the mortgage mess we are in now!). You may want to help pre-empt his offer and any temptation she may feel by having her go over all of her documents with an attorney so he or she can explain how she would be impacted by that "offer". If she does decide to take the "offer" please, please, have an attorney go over any documents before she signs or at least during the three day right of recission so she has an escape. If grandpa Dickwad is anything like my ex he will make a nice-sounding offer but there will be many strings attached and at the last minute he will try to manipulate things to serve his own agenda. My guess would be he would try to convince her she needs his help and then try to get on title so he can have control. Bravo to you for raising a real woman! I hope she sticks to her guns; this country is in a shitload of hurt by people who have thrown away their rights for some bogus "safety". Good luck; I would love to see how this turns out!
Thanks for the words of wisdom and rest assured there is no way in hell she's going to let him anywhere near her finances or anything else. Right now she said she wants to save up some more for a bigger down payment and wait until her raise kicks in in about 6 months before she starts seriously looking. Her sister just moved back in with us so we have a full house again. My oldest one is going through a really rough time right now and its nice to see the sisters relying on each other.
The grandparents and their father are up in Maine for the summer right now. Some things have recently come to light and I'm afraid of what I'm going to do to him when I see him.
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Some things have recently come to light and I'm afraid of what I'm going to do to him when I see him.
Sounds ominous and grim, Anne. Someone who does not understand or respect boundaries is a likely candidate for abusive behavior. Obviously true in programs, as well, as so many of you learned the hard way.
AuntieEm
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I really hope your daughter does not get too tempted by her grandfather's "offer". I think your instincts are correct. If she considers letting him to co-sign, please have her sit down with an attorney so she understands exactly how that would impact her. Co-signing is one thing ( and I'm sure he will rub it in every chance he gets that he is liable for the loan and it affects his credit) but if he manages to manipulate it so that he is on title ( and once he has her on the hook and interested in his "help", he may try it) then he has an ownership interest and you know he is going to enter the house when she is not there and go through her things. It will be nightmare city.
I have had a lot of experience with contracts, real estate, mortgages and the law. I also have experience observing people who have signed legal documents without a clear understanding of how they would be affected ( witness the mortgage mess we are in now!). You may want to help pre-empt his offer and any temptation she may feel by having her go over all of her documents with an attorney so he or she can explain how she would be impacted by that "offer". If she does decide to take the "offer" please, please, have an attorney go over any documents before she signs or at least during the three day right of recission so she has an escape. If grandpa Dickwad is anything like my ex he will make a nice-sounding offer but there will be many strings attached and at the last minute he will try to manipulate things to serve his own agenda. My guess would be he would try to convince her she needs his help and then try to get on title so he can have control. Bravo to you for raising a real woman! I hope she sticks to her guns; this country is in a shitload of hurt by people who have thrown away their rights for some bogus "safety". Good luck; I would love to see how this turns out!
Thanks for the words of wisdom and rest assured there is no way in hell she's going to let him anywhere near her finances or anything else. Right now she said she wants to save up some more for a bigger down payment and wait until her raise kicks in in about 6 months before she starts seriously looking. Her sister just moved back in with us so we have a full house again. My oldest one is going through a really rough time right now and its nice to see the sisters relying on each other.
The grandparents and their father are up in Maine for the summer right now. Some things have recently come to light and I'm afraid of what I'm going to do to him when I see him.
Your daughter sounds remarkable...that is a good decision she made. Sorry about the added burdens you have to face right now.
Whatever you do to him, I am sure he deserves. Things done to children fall into the "unforgivable" catagory. I'll be sending you kind thoughts that you have the strength to face it all.