Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anne Bonney on November 16, 2007, 02:54:42 PM
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I thought it might be a good idea to have a specific thread for LGATS, especially lately. Pro-program nuts have a way of derailing, avoiding, distracting, minimizing etc. so I thought I'd just get down the the basics of not only their program, but of what makes it so dangerous.
(http://http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/mctrain.gif)
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun ... s/faq.html (http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/faq.html)
http://forum.rickross.com/list.php?4 (http://forum.rickross.com/list.php?4)
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_articles/la ... _lgate.htm (http://www.csj.org/infoserv_articles/langone_michael_lgate.htm)
Large Group Awareness Trainings
Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
Editor, Cultic Studies Journal
Cult Observer, Volume 15, No. 1, 1998
In the 1960s the encounter group movement was born. Advocating enhanced communication and intensified experience, this movement evolved into something that was part psychotherapy, part spirituality, and part business. In some scholarly articles, these groups were referred to as "large group awareness trainings" or LGATs. Erhard Seminars Training (est) was the most successful of these groups, and it has been widely imitated. Even though it no longer officially exists, in the minds of many est is identified with the entire LGAT movement. It is in a sense the progenitor of a myriad of programs that have been marketed to the public and the business community. Lifespring is, perhaps, the next best known program after est. It is probably not an exaggeration to estimate that there are hundreds of training programs in the genre that est made famous. However, because most of these programs are businesses, they will usually emphasize that which they want potential consumers to think distinguishes them from their competition. "Exciting" words and phrases, such as "breakthrough," "unique," "your full potential," "must be experienced," and "changed my life" are used again and again with training after training.
The est model of self-transformation is structured around an intense weekend experience which brings together several dozen or several hundred people and a "trainer" with one or more assistants. People are together morning, afternoon, and evening. Breaks, even for the bathroom, tend to be highly structured and limited. Participants are led through a long series of exercises that proponents say are designed to cut through psychological defenses, increase honesty, and help people take charge of their lives. Undoubtedly, many variations of this basic model exist, and some LGATs may depart substantially from this model.
Although reliable scientific data are not available, probably at least a million people in the United States have participated in at least one LGAT, with several hundred thousand having gone through est alone.
Because many observers of this phenomenon have associated such trainings with the new age movement (NAM), LGATs have also been called "new age transformational training programs," or "new age trainings." According to Dole and Langone, the new age can be defined as "an alternative religious paradigm that is rooted in Eastern mysticism, eclectic in its practices and beliefs, tolerant (or undiscerning, depending upon one's perspective) of nontraditional practices and beliefs, and optimistic about humanity's capacity to bring about a great evolutionary leap in consciousness." New age transformational trainings use an eclectic mix of psychological techniques and exercises that proponents believe will improve one's spiritual, psychological, and material well-being.
Some observers and scientific researchers have also associated some LGATs with at least the potential to cause psychological distress to some participants. Some compare the trainings to thought reform programs, or "brainwashing," and to "cults."
The implied, if not explicit, religious nature of many of these trainings and the potential for psychological damage in some trainings have resulted in lawsuits against some trainings and employers who have sponsored them. On February 22, 1988 the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) issued a notice on new age training programs which conflict with employees' religious beliefs. This notice gave official credence to the claim that some of these trainings are fundamentally religious in nature, even though they may be corporately organized as a business. An article from Labor Law Journal elaborates upon the EEOC document.
Recently, AFF developed a packet on LGATs, containing the articles noted above as well as other articles. With a few exceptions, the information in this packet tends to be critical of LGATs. This is because the consumers who seek information from AFF are likely to have already been exposed to the sophisticated "sales" packages and activities that most such trainings excel at producing. There is no shortage of glowing testimonies and four-color brochures lauding the benefits of these programs. But the consumer will not so easily find material that examines negative aspects of the practices of some of these trainings. The packet is an attempt to rectify the informational advantage that LGATs have.
The new packet emphasizes scholarly articles because we believe that this area cries out for scientific research. Given the person-hours devoted to LGATs during the past two decades, it is astounding how little solid scientific research has been conducted. Indeed, there is not enough research to make any sweeping generalizations about this genre of training program. The research on est suggests that a small, though certainly not insignificant, percentage of participants were psychologically harmed by the training in ways that are detectable by standard measures of psychological distress. How much "subtle" harm occurs is still open to dispute.
I know of no research, however, that convincingly demonstrates positive behavioral effects of these trainings. In my opinion, one of the best studies from a methodological standpoint was "Research on Erhard Seminar Training in a Correctional Institution" (Hosford, Ray, E., Moss, C. Scott, Cavior, Helene, & Kerish, Burton. Catalog of Selected Documents in Psychology, 1982, Manuscript #2419, American Psychological Association). Of 313 inmates who volunteered for est training in a Federal Correctional Institution, 150 were randomly selected for the training, while the balance acted as a waiting-list control group and were given scholarships to be used upon release. The groups did not differ on demographics or variables related to criminal history. They were given a full battery of psychological tests and biofeedback instruments, with half of the group pre-tested and half post-tested (to control for the possible contaminating effect of testing). Three-month and 12-month follow-ups were conducted to assess behavioral outcomes (incident reports, furloughs, work performance, etc.). Although the psychological tests reflected some positive change, these self-report changes did not manifest themselves in alterations in physiological measures or in actual behavior.
The research and anecdotal evidence seem to indicate that LGATs are very successful at producing positive opinions about the trainings -- an outcome that the financial officers of every service business would value. However, whether or not they have a substantial positive effect on behavior that is not due to placebo factors, is still an unanswered question.
There are also a host of ethical questions that can be raised about how many of these trainings recruit new trainees and persuade graduates to continue to take more courses. We hope that the material in the new packet will help readers appreciate the complexity and subtlety of the issues raised by LGATs.
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Thanks Anne, this will be useful.
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Sound familiar??? This was a willing participant. Now imagine a kid being forced into this kind of mindrape.
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,42245 (http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,42245)
Wow am I thankful for this website! Has anyone had experience with Discovery Training in Dallas, TX? As far as I can see they are an LGAT but probably not as intense as PSI or Landmark Education.
I experienced severe Depression after going through it. I had alot going on in my life as far as living in a new city and adjusting to a job but I do believe Discovery played a significant part in my depression. My good friend recruited me and offered to pay so I though hey I'll check it out. Alot of people at the church I was going to also had attended. Afterward I felt emotionally ripped open and kind of dazed but at the same time convinced that I had issues that Discovery could help me with. Now I realize how mentally confused I was and that I lost my sense of who I was. It clearly has an element of mind control that comes from tearing down emotional and pscychological boundaries that leave people open to the power of suggestibility. Since I've left Dallas some of my friends get deeper and deeper into it and it seems kind of cultish. They label people who don't agree with it as "unhealthy" and "afraid to deal with thier issues". Anyway I take responsibility for making the choice to check out Discovery but now I have thousands to pay in medical bills and recovery from severe depression to deal with.
Has anyone had similar experiences? Any suggestions on how to keep some good contact with my friend who is deeply involved but also set up boundaries to protect myself? Also anything I can do to put this group on the radar or have them investigated?
Again I'm so thankful for this site. It has helped me learn to be open about my experience and helped me get back my sanity.
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Sound familiar??? This was a willing participant. Now imagine a kid being forced into this kind of mindrape.
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,42245 (http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,42245)
Wow am I thankful for this website! Has anyone had experience with Discovery Training in Dallas, TX? As far as I can see they are an LGAT but probably not as intense as PSI or Landmark Education.
I experienced severe Depression after going through it. I had alot going on in my life as far as living in a new city and adjusting to a job but I do believe Discovery played a significant part in my depression. My good friend recruited me and offered to pay so I though hey I'll check it out. Alot of people at the church I was going to also had attended. Afterward I felt emotionally ripped open and kind of dazed but at the same time convinced that I had issues that Discovery could help me with. Now I realize how mentally confused I was and that I lost my sense of who I was. It clearly has an element of mind control that comes from tearing down emotional and pscychological boundaries that leave people open to the power of suggestibility. Since I've left Dallas some of my friends get deeper and deeper into it and it seems kind of cultish. They label people who don't agree with it as "unhealthy" and "afraid to deal with thier issues". Anyway I take responsibility for making the choice to check out Discovery but now I have thousands to pay in medical bills and recovery from severe depression to deal with.
Has anyone had similar experiences? Any suggestions on how to keep some good contact with my friend who is deeply involved but also set up boundaries to protect myself? Also anything I can do to put this group on the radar or have them investigated?
Again I'm so thankful for this site. It has helped me learn to be open about my experience and helped me get back my sanity.
Shut up Anne you sound pathetic. I have a suggestion, stop whining on the internet and do something useful for a change.
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Shut up Anne you sound pathetic. I have a suggestion, stop whining on the internet and do something useful for a change.
Another good one. :wave:
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,42245,page=2 (http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,42245,page=2)
Sad to say but there are many psychotherapists and other legitimate counselors who have been drawn into the whole LGAT thing. It's disgusting. They don't or are not able to see the bullshit, the stupidity, the hypocrisy or the low-rent scam that these groups perpetrate. They mistake the valid-appearing portion for the whole. They are as easily seduced, apparently, as the rest of us. All of these groups contain a portion of normal, ordinary, easily-obtained, standard, and good common-sense content. It's their window-dressing. Their lure. They do train and motivate people. They do offer "community" and validation and support. They do attempt to "educate." It's just that they conceal a nasty undertow that invisibly pulls people into a philosophical and psychological whirlpool of conceit, immaturity, and nastiness if not downright sociopathy.
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The research and anecdotal evidence seem to indicate that LGATs are very successful at producing positive opinions about the trainings.
:rofl: That's totally brilliant! Guaranteed to make you like us.. Be a recruiter. Get 50% off your next seminar.
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http://www.rickross.com/reference/landm ... ark62.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/landmark/landmark62.html)
Mindbreakers
A rape victim is sneered at. A senior surgeon breaks down. It's an extraordinary scene of humiliation and control. But why are Britain's professional elite paying 235 to a former hairdresser who says he can break them and remake them? Self improvement self awareness self discovery self obsession
Daily Mail - London /July 23, 2001
By Roland Howard
On the early morning train to London I am scared. I've signed up for a weekend course that promises to change my life. I'm told that in about 40 hours it will break me and remake me. Called The Forum and run by an organisation called Landmark Education, it promises to alter my reality radically and transform my relationships. Some say such courses are brainwashing, but I want to keep an open mind.
The Forum was developed by Werner Erhard (nee Jack Rosenberg), a former Scientologist and used car salesman who founded the controversial 'est' (Erhard Seminar Training) in 1971. Est was an encounter group made up of a mixture of self-help, Scientology, Zen Buddhism and other psychotherapeutic techniques.
It grew dramatically, spreading around the world, attracting notoriety when people spoke of abusive and controlling behaviour in seminars.
Erhard's empire unravelled in the Eighties as the U.S. tax service made allegations, and several employees brought lawsuits against him - all of which he denied. Erhard went into exile and devised a new course The Forum, which bears a resemblance to est, though experts say it is not as extreme.
In the early Nineties he was bought out by his employees who formed Landmark Education and paid him for using his technology. It is unclear whether he still has an influence on the organisation. I arrive at an anonymous looking five-storey office near Euston station at 8.45am. Scores of people are signing in and picking up name tags. Inside the plain white and grey auditorium are about 200 participants, 20 helpers and David Sherman, our leader.
Though there are a smattering of elderly people and one or two 18- year-olds, most are between 20 and 40, with slightly more women than men. The majority appear to be educated professionals (doctors, lawyers, advertising executives, lecturers and teachers, people in business or the media); others are in sales or the caring professions; there are a few musicians and artists; and a couple of people who are unemployed or retired.
AT 9am, precisely, the doors to the auditorium are closed and David strides down a central aisle to the slightly raised podium at the front. He sits in a director-style chair in the centre, flanked by two blackboards. The window blinds behind the podium are closed. The participants sit in cramped chairs in a semicircle 12 rows deep.
That is the situation for three days from 9am until about midnight. We have short breaks every three hours and a 90-minute meal break at about 6pm. We are given homework tasks for the breaks and the end of the day. At night I got five hours sleep.
Everything is oppressively featureless and bland. Nothing is allowed to distract from what the leader is saying. But what occurs during those three days is one of the most extraordinary things I have ever seen. It is impossible not to be affected by it. David, a former hairdresser, is fortysomething, dressed in a powder blue cotton shirt, patent leather shoes and smart trousers.
He sits at the front and smiles over steel-rimmed glasses. He explains that for the duration of the Forum he will be taking us on a rollercoaster ride and that he is committed to improving the quality of our relationships, our communication and our effectiveness in all areas of our life.
He is personable, powerful and articulate and has a no-nonsense manner: 'I'm committed to you having breakthroughs - to do that I'm willing to be unreasonable. 'Why? I'm committed to being unreasonable because I'm committed to extraordinary relationships. I think it's worth it. I'm committed to everyone doing the Forum, I believe in it.' THIS zealous commitment is used to justify Forum rules.
We are discouraged from going to the toilet during the three-hour sessions in case we lose the 'narrative'. We are not allowed to take notes, eat or talk (unless instructed to).
The doors are closed on the minute at the end of 40-minute breaks and to re- enter the room we have to apologise for breaking our word. We promise not to drink alcohol or to take non-prescribed drugs (such as paracetamol). It is made clear to us that we will be made accountable for these commitments.
David pre-empts any doubts we have and assures us that this is fine, natural even, but if we want to achieve the benefits of the Forum we must banish these doubts. 'Otherwise you're wasting your 235,' he says. He describes himself as coach and us as athletes.
David assures us that the Forum is not psychotherapy or neurolinguistic programming (a new brain programming technique). He reads out a passage from a whiteboard, which seems to be a disclaimer.
Clearly the Forum does not want to be held responsible for participants who may be emotionally or mentally unstable: hence we are told that it is not appropriate for them to take part. At about this stage, David announces that if the Forum is not for you, then you can leave and receive a full refund. A couple leave.
The philosophy of Landmark is then outlined to us in a kind of Forumspeak which touches on personal responsibility for our lives, deep self-honesty and a need to sort out unresolved issues with others. What we would normally call a 'hidden agenda' is described as 'running a racket'. We are told to see our everyday complaints as 'rackets'.
Cont'd at Rick Ross.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/landm ... ark62.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/landmark/landmark62.html)
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It should be mentioned that as damaging as this industry is, LGAT is something that is fashionable in some quarters of the business world. (At least here) I now know at least 2 people who have been to lifesprings or one of its imitators because it was dubbed a team building exercise. As team building exercises here comprise of anything from doing some army commando course to going to the pub on a friday night, most reasonable employees would jst tend to go along. One girl claimed it changed her life and as a result of it she and her team mates are lifelong friends.
Another thought it was a joke, complained to her boss that it did not offer any effective business or comunication skills and after the first day and was accused of not being a team player. She eventually moved on to another job.
If lgat has some level of mainstream respectability it is easy to see how this industry can take off
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I learned a lot about LGAT, I had no idea they were so brutal, thank you for posting.
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Sound familiar??? This was a willing participant. Now imagine a kid being forced into this kind of mindrape.
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,42245 (http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,42245)
Wow am I thankful for this website! Has anyone had experience with Discovery Training in Dallas, TX? As far as I can see they are an LGAT but probably not as intense as PSI or Landmark Education.
I experienced severe Depression after going through it. I had alot going on in my life as far as living in a new city and adjusting to a job but I do believe Discovery played a significant part in my depression. My good friend recruited me and offered to pay so I though hey I'll check it out. Alot of people at the church I was going to also had attended. Afterward I felt emotionally ripped open and kind of dazed but at the same time convinced that I had issues that Discovery could help me with. Now I realize how mentally confused I was and that I lost my sense of who I was. It clearly has an element of mind control that comes from tearing down emotional and pscychological boundaries that leave people open to the power of suggestibility. Since I've left Dallas some of my friends get deeper and deeper into it and it seems kind of cultish. They label people who don't agree with it as "unhealthy" and "afraid to deal with thier issues". Anyway I take responsibility for making the choice to check out Discovery but now I have thousands to pay in medical bills and recovery from severe depression to deal with.
Has anyone had similar experiences? Any suggestions on how to keep some good contact with my friend who is deeply involved but also set up boundaries to protect myself? Also anything I can do to put this group on the radar or have them investigated?
Again I'm so thankful for this site. It has helped me learn to be open about my experience and helped me get back my sanity.
::bump::
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Has anyone had experience with Discovery Training in Dallas, TX? As far as I can see they are an LGAT but probably not as intense as PSI or Landmark Education.
Comment on evolving cult lingo: Hyde School used to call its group encounter sessions "Seminars" in my day; now they call them "Discovery Groups."
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In Straight they were called 'raps'. Same thing. Get a group of people to gang up on a selected individual. Confront the shit out of them with all the degrading and humiliating tactics you can think of in order to 'help the person realize' how fucked up they are. Our raps consisted of 3 sections...past, present and future. We were to 'relate' something that we did 'in our past' and talk about how whatever it was was leading us to DEATH. If we didn't squeeze out the appropriate amount of tears, the other inmates would be in a frenzy to get called on so they could 'put us in our place' and 'help us understand the error of our ways'. This was accomplished by calling us the most vile names imaginable, telling us we're worthless pieces of shit, telling us what ungrateful little snots we are for not thanking out parents for sending us there blah blah blah. Then its "have a seat. Love ya So And So".
:roll: :roll:
Love ya! HA!
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
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Hey.
Idea.
Lets "rap" people on tape and show how awful it is to the people who can't seem to figure out out by reading alone.
:rofl: Lets see if we can sucker random people to agree to let us do it to them for that matter
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This gets to the meat of how these places "work".
I thought it might be a good idea to have a specific thread for LGATS, especially lately. Pro-program nuts have a way of derailing, avoiding, distracting, minimizing etc. so I thought I'd just get down the the basics of not only their program, but of what makes it so dangerous.
(http://http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/mctrain.gif)
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun ... s/faq.html (http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/faq.html)
http://forum.rickross.com/list.php?4 (http://forum.rickross.com/list.php?4)
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_articles/la ... _lgate.htm (http://www.csj.org/infoserv_articles/langone_michael_lgate.htm)
Large Group Awareness Trainings
Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
Editor, Cultic Studies Journal
Cult Observer, Volume 15, No. 1, 1998
In the 1960s the encounter group movement was born. Advocating enhanced communication and intensified experience, this movement evolved into something that was part psychotherapy, part spirituality, and part business. In some scholarly articles, these groups were referred to as "large group awareness trainings" or LGATs. Erhard Seminars Training (est) was the most successful of these groups, and it has been widely imitated. Even though it no longer officially exists, in the minds of many est is identified with the entire LGAT movement. It is in a sense the progenitor of a myriad of programs that have been marketed to the public and the business community. Lifespring is, perhaps, the next best known program after est. It is probably not an exaggeration to estimate that there are hundreds of training programs in the genre that est made famous. However, because most of these programs are businesses, they will usually emphasize that which they want potential consumers to think distinguishes them from their competition. "Exciting" words and phrases, such as "breakthrough," "unique," "your full potential," "must be experienced," and "changed my life" are used again and again with training after training.
The est model of self-transformation is structured around an intense weekend experience which brings together several dozen or several hundred people and a "trainer" with one or more assistants. People are together morning, afternoon, and evening. Breaks, even for the bathroom, tend to be highly structured and limited. Participants are led through a long series of exercises that proponents say are designed to cut through psychological defenses, increase honesty, and help people take charge of their lives. Undoubtedly, many variations of this basic model exist, and some LGATs may depart substantially from this model.
Although reliable scientific data are not available, probably at least a million people in the United States have participated in at least one LGAT, with several hundred thousand having gone through est alone.
Because many observers of this phenomenon have associated such trainings with the new age movement (NAM), LGATs have also been called "new age transformational training programs," or "new age trainings." According to Dole and Langone, the new age can be defined as "an alternative religious paradigm that is rooted in Eastern mysticism, eclectic in its practices and beliefs, tolerant (or undiscerning, depending upon one's perspective) of nontraditional practices and beliefs, and optimistic about humanity's capacity to bring about a great evolutionary leap in consciousness." New age transformational trainings use an eclectic mix of psychological techniques and exercises that proponents believe will improve one's spiritual, psychological, and material well-being.
Some observers and scientific researchers have also associated some LGATs with at least the potential to cause psychological distress to some participants. Some compare the trainings to thought reform programs, or "brainwashing," and to "cults."
The implied, if not explicit, religious nature of many of these trainings and the potential for psychological damage in some trainings have resulted in lawsuits against some trainings and employers who have sponsored them. On February 22, 1988 the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) issued a notice on new age training programs which conflict with employees' religious beliefs. This notice gave official credence to the claim that some of these trainings are fundamentally religious in nature, even though they may be corporately organized as a business. An article from Labor Law Journal elaborates upon the EEOC document.
Recently, AFF developed a packet on LGATs, containing the articles noted above as well as other articles. With a few exceptions, the information in this packet tends to be critical of LGATs. This is because the consumers who seek information from AFF are likely to have already been exposed to the sophisticated "sales" packages and activities that most such trainings excel at producing. There is no shortage of glowing testimonies and four-color brochures lauding the benefits of these programs. But the consumer will not so easily find material that examines negative aspects of the practices of some of these trainings. The packet is an attempt to rectify the informational advantage that LGATs have.
The new packet emphasizes scholarly articles because we believe that this area cries out for scientific research. Given the person-hours devoted to LGATs during the past two decades, it is astounding how little solid scientific research has been conducted. Indeed, there is not enough research to make any sweeping generalizations about this genre of training program. The research on est suggests that a small, though certainly not insignificant, percentage of participants were psychologically harmed by the training in ways that are detectable by standard measures of psychological distress. How much "subtle" harm occurs is still open to dispute.
I know of no research, however, that convincingly demonstrates positive behavioral effects of these trainings. In my opinion, one of the best studies from a methodological standpoint was "Research on Erhard Seminar Training in a Correctional Institution" (Hosford, Ray, E., Moss, C. Scott, Cavior, Helene, & Kerish, Burton. Catalog of Selected Documents in Psychology, 1982, Manuscript #2419, American Psychological Association). Of 313 inmates who volunteered for est training in a Federal Correctional Institution, 150 were randomly selected for the training, while the balance acted as a waiting-list control group and were given scholarships to be used upon release. The groups did not differ on demographics or variables related to criminal history. They were given a full battery of psychological tests and biofeedback instruments, with half of the group pre-tested and half post-tested (to control for the possible contaminating effect of testing). Three-month and 12-month follow-ups were conducted to assess behavioral outcomes (incident reports, furloughs, work performance, etc.). Although the psychological tests reflected some positive change, these self-report changes did not manifest themselves in alterations in physiological measures or in actual behavior.
The research and anecdotal evidence seem to indicate that LGATs are very successful at producing positive opinions about the trainings -- an outcome that the financial officers of every service business would value. However, whether or not they have a substantial positive effect on behavior that is not due to placebo factors, is still an unanswered question.
There are also a host of ethical questions that can be raised about how many of these trainings recruit new trainees and persuade graduates to continue to take more courses. We hope that the material in the new packet will help readers appreciate the complexity and subtlety of the issues raised by LGATs.
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:bump:
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An oldie but goodie. Mentions a lot of lesser known LGATs particular to Utah at the time, many of which had ties to the more infamous ones like est and/or Lifespring.
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Deseret News
SELF HELP OR LOST HOPE? (http://http://www.deseretnews.com/article/81482/?pg=1)
By Joel Campbell, Staff Writer
Published: Sunday, Jan. 14, 1990 12:00 a.m. MST
Lynne Aprilliano was alone in her Capitol Hill apartment when she experienced uncontrollable panic. She said she felt compelled to end it all.
In desperation, Aprilliano, a University of Utah student, called someone at The Training, where she had recently completed an intensive four-day self-improvement course. Aprilliano explained her crisis.During the conversation the person on the other end said: "You can take care of this yourself." She called again twice seeking help from an assistant trainer. The trainer said she didn't want to talk to Aprilliano anymore.
Aprilliano then hung up the phone and, remembering the words of The Training's founder John Webb, she burnt the course materials. She lit the match, she said, to protect the "integrity of The Training at all costs" so it would not be implicated in her death. She is still recovering from the suicide attempt.
As a result, Aprilliano filed a 3rd District Court complaint charging the Training with negligence, breach of contract, outrageous conduct.
But Stacey Stocking, Centerville, who attended the same session as Aprilliano, said The Training changed his life. He says he realized that he had long neglected his dream of becoming a screen writer. He quit his job, works at home, believes he is a better father and understands people better.
Stocking and Aprilliano are among thousands of Utahns who have been attracted to a variety of expensive so-called "human potential" or "transformational training" seminars that promise to deliver a new, more fulfilled way of being. Nationally, training seminars have developed in the 1980s into a lucrative business, which some observers estimate is a $4 billion growth industry. In Utah, there are at least a half a dozen programs.
Prices for the seminars range from $150 for a beginning course to $1,200 for an eight-day retreat. A common fee is $325 for a beginning four-day course.
Next week, a group of more than 300 Utahns will participate in a New Horizons training aboard a cruise ship in the Caribbean.
The most prevalent Utah for-profit training sessions - such as Impact, The Training, New Horizons and The Next Step - hold intensive evenings and
weekend sessions. The seminars utilize games and may draw on Gestalt psychology, small-group encounters, sensitivity training, eastern religious thought, psychodrama, breathing therapy or rebirthing techniques.
The courses include everything from hugging to John Denver songs. At some courses, people dress up and sessions are held in elaborately decorated training rooms. Trainers say the sessions are designed to help students unload psychological baggage to find their true child or diamond within.
Opinions about the results of the programs vary. Some satisfied graduates say their training was a gift from God. Other participants, and some local therapists, complain of mind-bending quackery that is linked to suicide, marital discord and psychological disorders.
One woman, who asked to be identified only as "Cindy," is bitter about her experience at Impact's Quest course in November 1988 with 83 others.
"They are playing with people's heads," she said. "They have no degrees, no training or education in dealing with people's emotions."
A Salt Lake marriage and family therapist, who also spoke on the condition her name not be printed, said four of her patients were treated for severe depression and other disorders after they attended courses, including The Training and Lifespring.
"I think there should be a whole investigation of all these different groups. Probably to do what they are doing they need to be trained and licensed as therapists and psychologists," the therapist said.
She said that the seminars can set off an emotional time bomb when long-buried memories of experiences, such as child sexual abuse, are uncovered.
Still, such seminars often attract an upscale clientele. One training leader, Hans Berger of Impact, says as many as 75 percent of program participants are professionals. University of Utah President Chase Peterson and his wife, Grethe, are two Salt Lake residents who have graduated from a self-awareness seminar.
"We serve everyone from the Roto-Rooter man to psychiatrists, to attorneys and judges and corporate leaders of Fortune 500 companies," said William Bireley, founder of New Horizons.
Many groups have roots in the human potential movement of 1970s, although most of the groups eschew such connections. The movement produced Werner Erhard's est or Erhard Seminars Trainings and John Hanley's Life-spring.
Although no longer in business in Utah, the legacy of Lifespring still influences the transformational training business here. Along with thousands of graduates, Berger of Impact, Webb of The Training and Joanne Granger of The Next Step, all have links to the company based in San Rafael, Calif. Lifespring officials, in business here from 1984 to 1987, say they left Utah because of competition from the copycat groups.
Along with The Training, Life-spring is also being sued. Maryellen Wurdelman of West Jordan, a former Lifespring trainee and employee claimed in a lawsuit filed in a San Francisco court that because of the training, she suffered epileptic fits, anxiety attacks, chronic depression, periods of unexplained crying and made one suicide attempt.
Charles Ingrasci, director of Lifespring corporate affairs, said the charges are unfounded. Webb, of The Training, refused to speak about his program. However, Robert Wallace, Webb's attorney, said that Webb denies that he or his organization played any part in Aprilliano's attempted suicide.
Along with the Wurdelman and Aprilliano charges that these courses triggered suicide attempts, Acevedo confirmed that one New York woman committed suicide after attending one of his courses eight years ago. However, he denies the suicide resulted from his training.
Most of the companies rely on word-of-mouth advertising and recruiting of friends and family. Some participants complain about being pelted with high-pressure sales tactics
"It is an extremely lucrative business," said David Henry, operator of Bountiful-based CrossRoads training that charges $150 for all three levels of its training.
"In most of the courses, all the first level is is a marketing device to get you into the second level," Henry said.
Bireley said his company grossed $325,000 in 1989. Berger said company profits are confidential. But he said "substantially" more than 1,000 people a year attend any of the three seminars. Multiplying the number of participants by a basic $325 charge means the company at least earns $325,000 each year.
During three years of operation in Utah, Lifespring earned $1.9 million, said Dorothy Solomon, a former leadership trainer for Life-spring and Park City author. She is currently writing a book about the "dark underside" of transformational trainings.
Some religious groups are warning members about such self-awareness groups. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recently told members to avoid some seminars. Problem groups may meet late into the night or early morning, encourage confession and foster unnecessary physical contact. Their methods may result in added stress, marital discord and even divorce, according to a church statement .
Probe Ministries International, a Christian research organization based in Richardson, Texas, said that national human potential courses undermine Christian beliefs and engage in brainwashing, said Russ Wise, the group's media outreach coordinator.
Still, Bill Beadle, of the Salt Lake Better Business Bureau, said there were no recent complaints about any local training groups.
Some seminars bind participants with a confidentiality agreement. Training officials defend the cloak of secrecy. They say talking about the seminars would ruin their effect, just like spoiling a movie's suspense by revealing the punch line.
At The Training, participants are asked to follow other ground rules during the seminars, which prohibit watches, non-prescription drugs and talking without permission. And students are required to sit in an open body position - with their hands planted on their knees.
Other rules at The Training include: "No physical violence unless instructed by the trainer. No new sexual partners for this group for 30 days and no sexual release until Saturday night."
Cindy said she felt uncomfortable with rules at Impact. In one instance, where participants were required to be matched with someone "they would least likely trust," one student wasn't allowed to attend until the missing partner was located.
While critics call such programs dangerous, Berger, of Impact, said his mission is one of love.
"When it is all said and done, there is one reason why we are here in existence, and that is simply 'I want to be loved' and 'I want to love.' I don't care if we take that into the area of our professions, in our relationships or with family and friends," Berger said.
He recalled feeling this kind of love when, as a teenager, he was embraced by West German border guards after escaping with his family across the East German border.
Two local psychologists say some of the training techniques have been linked to extreme mental unrest in their patients. At least two patients were hospitalized after finishing courses. However, training operators claim that 90 percent of their participants have positive and life-changing experiences. At Impact, 98 percent are satisfied, Berger said.
A clinical social worker in Provo links the divorce of two of her patients to their participation in the courses.
Cindy said, "It felt it was superficial. It is a scam."
Volunteer graduates told her she was not trustworthy during the session.
She said that effects on some of the participants were frightening. She recalls how during one game, the lights were turned out and people were asked to beat on chairs, an exercise supposedly symbolic of different individuals who caused barriers, anger and pain in Cindy's life.
One man broke three chairs that night and became extremely emotionally distraught, she said.
In The Training's "Breakthrough," Aprilliano said she found a "stretch" exercise demeaning. She was told to dress up and act like Liza Minnelli in front of a group of students, and men shaved their legs and danced like ballerinas.
Mat Olsen, 18, Orem, said he experienced positive results from his participation in the first two levels of Impact. The seminar made him feel uncomfortable and defensive at times, but it was necessary for him to confront his drug and alcohol problem. Olsen said he hasn't abused drugs or alcohol since he started Impact.
Granger, who operates The Next Step, said her programs emphasize "unconditional love, integrity and honesty."
Granger said, "We go back into touch the divine of whom we really are. We are created the same. We are created divinely . . . and begin to embrace the whole of who we are, the essence and the core."
Bireley of New Horizons says that his programs help people break out of limiting concepts, theories and beliefs of how they view life.
Allen E. Bergin, Brigham Young University professor of psychology and leading expert in psychotherapy research, said while most people could chalk up such trainings to recreation, some individuals may be at risk. He believes the programs are ersatz or a substitute for real growth and offer false hope to those who may really need help.
"If people want to waste their money on it then that is their business. Where they are attempting to deal with deeply-rooted psychological conflict, I think they are dangerous. I don't see evidence that they screen or carefully control for that . . . (Some of the procedures) are clearly ersatz variations on professional techniques like going back to childhood," Bergin said.
Randy Hardman, Director of the Depression Center at Utah Valley Regional Medical Center and trainer at the Human Development Institute in Aurora, Colo., offers another professional opinion. He said he is concerned that powerful training procedures sometimes aren't used properly.
"That is the concern I have after talking to a few people who have been through some other programs is that it tends to be quite controlling and the confrontation goes beyond what is helpful and becomes almost brutal emotionally," Hardman said. "However, most of the people that I talk to that have been through other trainings express a positive experience."
Michael Lambert, a member of the state psychological licensing board, said the courses can get around psychological licensing laws because claim they're providing education, not therapy. Bergin believes the training seminars, in fact, attempt therapy.
Solomon, who was an employee and volunteer with Lifespring for four years, also believes the course can be a powerful tool - something she likens to nuclear energy. It is helpful when controlled, but devastating if misused.
"I don't think people should be pressured into a personal growth training anymore more than they should be pressured into buying a house that is too big or car they can't afford," Solomon said.
They manipulate at so many "levels of being" it makes for explosive chemistry, she said.
She also believes some training can be damaging to family relationships. Many individuals replace family ties with those at the training center and could become attached to charismatic leaders.
"I think they (the courses) should develop groups that fall naturally. In order to do that they would have to forego the major goal of profit making." she said.
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Transformational trainings groups
CrossRoads Training
Founder and operator: Davis Henry, a former New Horizons graudate.
Date started: 1989
Address: 29 E. North Canyon Road, Bountiful. Training sessions are at the Airport Inn.
Courses: Reflections, $150; Higher Ground, $150; and Wings $150.
Impact Training Corporation
Founder and operator: Hans Berger, a former Lifespring participant, holds a master's degree in business administration.
Date started: Incorporated June 1986.
Address: 415 W. Bearcat Drive, Salt Lake City. Also teaches courses in Idaho, California and Arizona.
Courses: Quest, $325; Summit, $650; and Lift-Off, $125. The courses are 20 percent lecture, 20 percent sharing and 60 percent game training.
New Horizons
Founder and Operator: William R. Bireley, a licensed therapist and former impact trainer and graduate of several human potential programs.
Date started: 1987.
Address: 8160 Highland Drive, Suite 2001. Training takes place at a downtown hotel. He also conducts seminars in Logan, Cedar City, St. George, Vernal, Provo, Ogden, California and Nevada.
Courses: New Visions, $325; Journey, $625; and Choice, $265. Also offer three months of follow-through minitraining, four-day "intimacy" retreats and training. Family retreat and ropes training held in the Uinta Mountains.
The Next Step
Founder and operators: Joanne Granger and Charlie Bloom, a licensed social worker.
Date started: June 1989.
Address: 2853 Valley View Ave. Classes meet in a Sugar House bank.
Courses: "Waking Up," $275 or $325, if not preregistered. Also has "Man to Man," a women's course and "Above and Beyond" ropes course.
Thresholds -Personal Resource Consultants-
Founder and operator: Gary Acevedo, a certified social worker.
Date started: 1980.
Address: 3090 E. 3300 South, Suite 4, Salt Lake City, Utah. Operatores programs in Utah and New Mexico.
Courses: The Awakening, $1,200 for adults and $800 for children, an eight-day retreat which takes place in a remote mountain cabin and involves children. Acevedo also operates a four-day workshop, "The Relationships Course" and minicourses entitled "Jesus" and "The Heart of the Human Spirit."
The Training
Founder and operator: John S. Webb, a former police officer who holds a bachelor's degree in psychology.
Date started: about 1986.
Address: Training occurs at 3487 W. 2100 South. Business address is listed at 4014 S. Highland Drive, Suite 534. Also teaches courses nationally, including one scheduled this month in Ohio.
Courses: Possibilities, $300; Breakthrough, $650; and Graduate Development Program, $300.
Other courses with Utah connections: Inner Light Center of Utah, Spectra Achievement, The Good Life, Alpha Awareness and The Course in Miracles.
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What is it about our culture that so many seem to need some sort of pacification or handholding or guru or program to follow? People actually pay "life coaches" to tell them how to live. These "coaches" have no real training in anything. It doesn't seem to be so prevalent in other countries but maybe I'm just not familiar enough with them.
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What is it about our culture that so many seem to need some sort of pacification or handholding or guru or program to follow? People actually pay "life coaches" to tell them how to live. These "coaches" have no real training in anything. It doesn't seem to be so prevalent in other countries but maybe I'm just not familiar enough with them.
Funny and true. A guy I grew up with is a "motivational speaker" now who conducts LGATs and NLP sessions. Dude has no education whatsoever, but was the #1 producer for Tony Robbins before he went out on his own. He moved to TN where I suppose the folk are easier to dupe than here in NYC. Scary part? People PAY THIS GUY. :beat:
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:bump:
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Hi there,
Hope is the most exciting thing in life and if you honestly believe that love is out there, it will come. And even if it doesn't come straight away there is still that chance all through your life that it will....thanks for such a informative post.
Regards
Victoria Heden
___________________________
Motivational Speaker Training (http://http://www.johnva.com)
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Hi there,
Hope is the most exciting thing in life and if you honestly believe that love is out there, it will come. And even if it doesn't come straight away there is still that chance all through your life that it will....thanks for such a informative post.
Regards
Victoria Heden
___________________________
Motivational Speaker Training (http://http://www.johnva.com)
You've GOT to be kidding! ::) Can this be removed for SPAM or advertising?
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Hi there,
Hope is the most exciting thing in life and if you honestly believe that love is out there, it will come. And even if it doesn't come straight away there is still that chance all through your life that it will....thanks for such a informative post.
Regards
Victoria Heden
___________________________
Motivational Speaker Training (http://http://www.johnva.com)
You've GOT to be kidding! ::) Can this be removed for SPAM or advertising?
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That's just as crazy (and hilarious) as spam advertising for a criminal defense attorney (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=23616&p=346687#p346663) in a Hyde Schools thread 'bout a current administrator / faculty member, who apparently had assault charges levied against him a few years ago.
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Hi there,
Hope is the most exciting thing in life and if you honestly believe that love is out there, it will come. And even if it doesn't come straight away there is still that chance all through your life that it will....thanks for such a informative post.
Regards
Victoria Heden
___________________________
Motivational Speaker Training (http://http://www.johnva.com)
You've GOT to be kidding! ::) Can this be removed for SPAM or advertising?
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That's just as crazy (and hilarious) as spam advertising for a criminal defense attorney (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=23616&p=346687#p346663) in a Hyde Schools thread 'bout a current administrator / faculty member, who apparently had assault charges levied against him a few years ago.
No way! Really? Un-freaking-real!
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It never ceases to amaze me at how many perfectly intelligent people submit to this brainwashing and become robots. Every single person I have met that has taken one form or another of LGAT becomes seriously depressed or some other mental illness like manic depression, anxiety etc. and they cant see it or understand why they are suffering from depression or why they have to be on pills, totally incredible.
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It never ceases to amaze me at how many perfectly intelligent people submit to this brainwashing and become robots. Every single person I have met that has taken one form or another of LGAT becomes seriously depressed or some other mental illness like manic depression, anxiety etc. and they cant see it or understand why they are suffering from depression or why they have to be on pills, totally incredible.
Many times the people who are seeking out these types of seminars are doing so because they are suffering from depression or anxiety etc. to begin with and the seminar did not work for them. LGAT's are not all bad, I think certain people can be adversely effected by them but for the most part they are harmless and the effects are short lived, similar to a drug.
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Many times the people who are seeking out these types of seminars are doing so because they are suffering from depression or anxiety etc. to begin with and the seminar did not work for them. LGAT's are not all bad, I think certain people can be adversely effected by them but for the most part they are harmless and the effects are short lived, similar to a drug.
For someone who is comfortable speaking in front of larger groups it is not bad at all, until the person is forced into that situation..then the trouble with that mode of treatment (if you want to call it that) is that it can get quite out of hand with verbal (and often physical) abuse when attendance is forced..then it almost naturally becomes this dog-eat-dog situation where people are more apt to participate in scenarios where they are tearing each other down in an effort to gain some little status advancement (a la Straight Inc.).. this is anything but constructive or therapeutic.
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Many times the people who are seeking out these types of seminars are doing so because they are suffering from depression or anxiety etc. to begin with and the seminar did not work for them. LGAT's are not all bad, I think certain people can be adversely effected by them but for the most part they are harmless and the effects are short lived, similar to a drug.
For someone who is comfortable speaking in front of larger groups it is not bad at all, until the person is forced into that situation..then the trouble with that mode of treatment (if you want to call it that) is that it can get quite out of hand with verbal (and often physical) abuse when attendance is forced..then it almost naturally becomes this dog-eat-dog situation where people are more apt to participate in scenarios where they are tearing each other down in an effort to gain some little status advancement (a la Straight Inc.).. this is anything but constructive or therapeutic.
Agreed, Frod, they can be designed to be abusive but I dont think we can tag the entire treatment (LGAT) as being abusive. We need to assess it on an individual level, some LGATs can be bad while others can be helpful or benign.
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Im going to have to agree with Frod on this one.
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Agreed, Frod, they can be designed to be abusive but I dont think we can tag the entire treatment (LGAT) as being abusive.
Well you know the road to hell is often paved with the best of intentions! You start forcing people to do things (even if it is for their own good) and you run into problems. "Do unto others." I believe, and I've heard many people say, that a person has to be ready to change whatever behavior it is that's destructive before they can be any help to themselves or accept any help from others. You can lead a horse to water, but that horse has to be thirsty enough to drink on their own.
I believe the LGAT thing could work, but it would have to exist under the right conditions: It would have to be more of a "We're here for you when you are ready to do something about it," instead of "You walk out of this group and you'll end up back on drugs; dead, insane, or in jail, and all that crap that they try to make you believe about yourself... This sort of negative reinforcement can do no good in the long run...
That being said, I personally would prefer one-on-one as opposed to LGAT...(and i think my preference would be the same even if i had never experienced LGAT at its worst).
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http://HELL NOsound s like some half-assed,culty McBullshit in my book. Id rather fuck broken glass/sit thru a AA meeting. :nods: I cant believe grown folks wouldnt know what this is.But hey,theres always scientology...or the new wealth accumulation sysyem. :eek:
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My wife went to an LGAT and I know several people who have gone to AA meetings. These meetings are not abusive at all. I think everyone is making way too big a deal out of going to meetings. I am sure someone was verbally assaulted in an AA meeting at some point or LGAT and that is why everyone here is up in arms about them, but believe me they are mostly very tame.
The drill here on fornits sometimes is if one person had a bad experience than they assume every AA meeting is abusive.
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My wife went to an LGAT
'splains a lot
The drill here on fornits sometimes is if one person had a bad experience than they assume every AA meeting is abusive.
No, the similarities between AA and programs are such that it gives us the creeps BIG time. Worship Bill W ("Dr." Newton/Dean Vause/Helen Peterman etc. etc.), follow these steps or you'll DIE! (in our case 7 condensed out of the original AA 12) Teaching people that they're powerless, when they're far from it. And don't even get me started on how dangerous it is to give one person (sponsor) so much control over someone else's life (oldcomer/newcomer - group).
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Well that and AA meetings are just fuckin depressing,seriously, I tried to sit thru an AA meeting like 2 yrs ago and I was 20 times more depressed when I cut out (early, thus the tried). It was all I resent this and poor me and my disease. and then IM POWERLESS.......bout the my mind began to revolt.....im tring not to blurtsome shit out...I just caved in and left, Ithought it best. Now I know people socially who go to AA regularly and I dont shit on em for it, to me thats like kickin somebody when they're down( hey, im an asshole,not a fuckin asshole) It,meaning that school of thought aint for me.
But if you think its doin something for you,thats helping you get where you want to go...fine. From what ive seen LGAT stuff in like ponzi-schemeish, televangalistic,rah-rah bullshit. :nods:
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LGAT
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31368#p383032 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31368#p383032)
" The lifeboat experience was very hard for me. I would never wish for anyone in my peer group to die. This experience made me very sad. I would never want to say goodbye to friends if I were dying. I did not like to sort out in my head whether people should die or not. I have a special compassion for people. I don't believe that anyone should have to die. When I had to say goodbye to people like my grandmothers, sister, brother, friends, and put a rose on my mother's grave and one on my father's grave, it shows how much I love people. I was also thinking about Shiela's little girl when I went around to her, I don't like thinking like that at all. I began to think that when the boat was drowning it is was my turn to go to sleep and wonder if my mother felt this way when she died. I now understand her, I think just from experiencing this exercise. This exercise is a very important lesson because it teaches me that I have to tell people how much I love them. I felt small when I was done sharing for one minute why I think I should live. Because I kept on babbling the same thing over a few times. There should have been more reasons why I should live - why I felt small."
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this is absolutely eye opening. I went through a LGAT training in dallas texas, none other than Discovery Training, about 2 and 1/2 years ago. I was persuaded by a close friend to go through the training, since i was going through some rough times in my life. I was able to finish the program, and to tell you the truth, I was a fan of it. I had given the program my all. However, shortly after finishing, I realized that my situation was not changing. Despite my efforts, my regurgitation of everything I had learned "Discovery!", the only thing I had "discovered" was that I had not changed one bit, that those who I was trying to win back had not changed, and the useless tactics which I had trained so diligently on for 3 months actually did more harm than good. I did gain some friends, most superficial. I "discovered" that although I had been completely honest about my problems to the entire group, others had not. One was even currently awaiting sentencing for child molestation (!!!!!!), which of course, was not shared in "the group". Needless to say, I spiraled into a severe depression, and watched several others do the same. I soon realized that Discovery! LLC did not give a damn about me, or really anyone else involved. They were serving the almighty dollar. The powers that ran the organization had a close knit faction, posse, clique, whatever you wanted to call it, that took their word as gospel (perhaps i cross the line there....but hear me out). I refuse to name specific names, but I KNOW how these guys operate. If you in any way shape or form disagree with any minute piece of the training, you are either cast aside as a "non-believer", OR coaxed into "trusting the system".
I have read several posts on post LGAT participants that had the same reaction. Deep, dark, depression, and a whole passel of people telling you that you just were not living your "mission". Bogus, sorry, life is sometimes just a kick in the pants. You need to find something more concrete than a training with misleading "facilitators" and "TA's" to dominate your life. I was brain washed into thinking that Discovery! training would fix every issue I would encounter.....and I was naive enough to buy into that....literally.
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You were indoctrinated into a cult. Your very lucky that you retained enough ability to think critically / rationally that you came out of it quickly. Many loose years to such cults. Many loose their families and friends and home and their mental health. Your friend who talked you into this Discovery Seminar - did they have a kid in a "Teen Help" program?