Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: BuzzKill on October 01, 2007, 02:41:30 PM
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http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/skyviewsuspended.pdf (http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/skyviewsuspended.pdf)
A sexual hazing incident has brought about the closing of SkyView Academy. Sky View is suggesting that the students be transferred to:
Red River Academy
Cross Creek Academy
Spring Creek Lodge
Majestic Ranch
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I just found this out too! Holy shit!!!!!
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Awesome. Another one down. :D
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http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/skyviewsuspended.pdf
A sexual hazing incident has brought about the closing of SkyView Academy. Sky View is suggesting that the students be transferred to:
Red River Academy
Cross Creek Academy
Spring Creek Lodge
Majestic Ranch
They are not being shut down for good, at least not yet. They are being closed temporarily pending the investigation of the incident. I contacted the state official today, confirmed the incident and the date it happened, and expressed my support of the closure of this facility. I also alerted her that Majestic Ranch in Utah, one of the facilities the kids are being referred to, is on several watch lists for abuse.
The parents have all been notified of the incident, but should also be alerted about Majestic Ranch.
The big deal about this case is that IT JUST HAPPENED LAST WEEK. The hazing incident, which is being investigated as an abusive situation, only happened last Thursday 9/27/07. And the school has already been notified of suspension of their license. I don't know of another case where such quick action has been taken. I sent the licensing agency in Nevada an email supporting their quick and appropriate action in this case.
I made some waves in Utah, and sent Ken Stettler, the UT Dir of Licensing, and Mark Shurtleff, the Attorney General in UT, an email today stating my support of this closure in Nevada, pointing out how appropriate this action was, in comparison to the non-action in Utah in recent years.
I highly recommend, if you really want to see some action, that you do the same.
If the state of Utah had acted this quickly and appropriately in the deaths of Michelle Sutton, Kristen Chase, Aaron Bacon, Katherine Lank, Ian August, and Elisa Santry, at Summit Quest, Challenger, Northstar Expeditions, Red Rock Ranch Academy, Skyline Journey, Island View Academy, and Outward Bound Wilderness, my son would never have been left to die at Youth Care in Utah. The parents of the kids still there are not even AWARE that Youth Care is under investigation for criminal activity, nor that their license is under review. They just think he got sick and died. I have not been able to get in contact with any of them to give them the real story.
You can read the letter from Sky View to the parents here.
http://www.isaccorp.org/wwasps/skyviewsuspended.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.org/wwasps/skyviewsuspended.pdf)
Get those keyboards tapping folks.
Pitbull Mom
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... nBlum.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/BrendanBlum.html)
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Thanks for the updates!
One would think the death of a child would warrant the immediate closure of any program pending an investigation instead of allowing them to stay open, especially in light of the fact that had this boy been taken to the hospital, he most likely would have survived. What happens if another child gets sick and the staff doesn't seek proper medical attention?
:flame:
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Thanks for the updates!
One would think the death of a child would warrant the immediate closure of any program pending an investigation instead of allowing them to stay open, especially in light of the fact that had this boy been taken to the hospital, he most likely would have survived. What happens if another child gets sick and the staff doesn't seek proper medical attention?
:flame:
Any sane person would come to this conclusion. i posed that very question to Ken Stettler -- why didn't Youth Care get shut down while an investigation was done? He said the Constitution gives them a right to due process. But where is my dead son's due process? He certainly didn't have any Constitutional rights the night he died.
Obviously the Nevada department of licensing does not share this view that they have a Constitutional right to keep their programs open, since they took immediate steps to close down Sky View Academy after a hazing incident. Strange way of thinking in Utah. I would like to challenge the legality of Utah's position.
Utah DHS needs to get bombarded with legitimate complaints about their negligence in not taking stronger action in not only my son's death at Youth Care, but all of the previous deaths as well.
For anyone interested in voicing their concerns about the way Utah's licensing works, here are some key email addresses:
Ken Stettler - Utah Director of Licensing - [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
Lisa-Michele Church - Utha Executive DirectorDepartment of Human Services - [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
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From:
http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthre ... 222&page=2 (http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222&page=2)
I am the mother of the boy who was the catalyst to Skyview closing. I want to clarify a few things. First and foremost he wasn't gang raped but he was sexually assaulted and more than one boy participated in it. Secondly, this was not a "hazing" as the school has so conveniently tagged it. Nothing could be further from the truth but that is the spin they have tried to put on it from the beginning. After speaking to many parents that are now picking up their children and finding out all that has gone on there, it seems that it has long been their pattern to call all types of abuse "hazing" or "incidences". Anything to keep the truth out of their so carefully orchestrated dialogue. Part of the reason that our son is home and that the school has finally been exposed for what they really are is that, although we have previously had trouble with our son, I believed him when he told me what had happened. There are many other victims appearing now and one of the worst things that I have heard is that other parents had previously been told (by their kids) that these types of things did happen to them. However, these parents were convinced by the school, that it was lies they were telling in order to get out of there. From all appearances, the staff had plenty of knowledge of what was going on there and never made any attempt to stop it. All of the boys involved in this incident and several others which have now been reported to the police are in custody and awaiting charges to be filed. I would encourage all who read this board to get the word out to not only let parents know what these people have allowed to happen, but to call the DCFS Bureau Chief, Melissa Faul (775) 684-4439, and express to her how important it is that their appeal is denied. The State of Nevada was aware of numerous incidents of violent sexual incidents dating back to May of 2007 but still left the school open. They have full reports on these incidents and are finally investigating them all. There are charges going to be filed and hopefully all those who are responsible for allowing this to happen will be punished. If you find any other parents that have children who are victims, please have them email me at (Email address).net and I will get in contact with them and help them in any way that I can. Thank you all for the concern you have expressed for our son. God Bless you all.
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To all,
Our family is very concerned about is. We have a friend that was at skyview when it closed. Her family has now taked her to Spring Creek Lodge in Thompson Falls , MT. Does anyone out there know anything about the closing and did the local news cover it???
Also what about Spring Creek Lodge, is it any better ? If you know anything please let us know. The family has not returned yet. We are praying for them all.
May God be with all the children there.
Thank you,
and God Bless
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This facility is as least as bad and they even have a facility to hold people over 18, if they are terrified about taking the "Exit Plan" (Ticket to nearest busstation and a life in a shelther forever banished by their family. Remember they have not even talked to other than the parents for months. So they know little of whether at least someone are still loving them.)
About the facility:
http://fornits.com/wiki/index.php/Spring_Creek_Lodge (http://fornits.com/wiki/index.php/Spring_Creek_Lodge)
About the facility over 18.
http://fornits.com/wiki/index.php/Camas_Ranch (http://fornits.com/wiki/index.php/Camas_Ranch)
The fact about her being shipped to the place where Karlye Anne Newman died is interesting because SCL claims that they have NOTHING to do with WWASP and that their relationship is a done deal. Interesting!
I forgot: Actually it is worse in Montana. You have local authorities founded by the facility (Cars, uniforms etc. at the local police are bought by the facility) and a state board, which are to regulate the business with members from the industry.
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http://isaccorp.org/wwasps.asp (http://isaccorp.org/wwasps.asp)
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From:
http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthre ... 222&page=2 (http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222&page=2)
I am the mother of the boy who was the catalyst to Skyview closing. I want to clarify a few things. First and foremost he wasn't gang raped but he was sexually assaulted and more than one boy participated in it. Secondly, this was not a "hazing" as the school has so conveniently tagged it. Nothing could be further from the truth but that is the spin they have tried to put on it from the beginning. After speaking to many parents that are now picking up their children and finding out all that has gone on there, it seems that it has long been their pattern to call all types of abuse "hazing" or "incidences". Anything to keep the truth out of their so carefully orchestrated dialogue. Part of the reason that our son is home and that the school has finally been exposed for what they really are is that, although we have previously had trouble with our son, I believed him when he told me what had happened. There are many other victims appearing now and one of the worst things that I have heard is that other parents had previously been told (by their kids) that these types of things did happen to them. However, these parents were convinced by the school, that it was lies they were telling in order to get out of there. From all appearances, the staff had plenty of knowledge of what was going on there and never made any attempt to stop it. All of the boys involved in this incident and several others which have now been reported to the police are in custody and awaiting charges to be filed. I would encourage all who read this board to get the word out to not only let parents know what these people have allowed to happen, but to call the DCFS Bureau Chief, Melissa Faul (775) 684-4439, and express to her how important it is that their appeal is denied. The State of Nevada was aware of numerous incidents of violent sexual incidents dating back to May of 2007 but still left the school open. They have full reports on these incidents and are finally investigating them all. There are charges going to be filed and hopefully all those who are responsible for allowing this to happen will be punished. If you find any other parents that have children who are victims, please have them email me at (Email address).net and I will get in contact with them and help them in any way that I can. Thank you all for the concern you have expressed for our son. God Bless you all.
I JUST WANTED TO REMIND EVERYONE HERE THAT ALL OF US KIDS THAT CLAIM WE WERE ABUSED AT WWASPS CENTERS HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF LYING, AND MANIPULATING. LOL!!!!!!
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To all,
Our family is very concerned about is. We have a friend that was at skyview when it closed. Her family has now taked her to Spring Creek Lodge in Thompson Falls , MT. Does anyone out there know anything about the closing and did the local news cover it???
Also what about Spring Creek Lodge, is it any better ? If you know anything please let us know. The family has not returned yet. We are praying for them all.
May God be with all the children there.
Thank you,
and God Bless
No. Spring Creek Lodge is NOT any better. Tell your friend to go get her kid. NOW!
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URGENT ACTION NEEDED in Nevada and Utah - your help needed
There are 2 licensing issues going on that need LOTS of people to write or call and state their opinion. Otherwise these 2 cases will just fall by the wayside as have so many others. You need to state that you support the license suspension and closure of the facilities, and urge licensing to always close down a facility pending any investigation of abuse or death. both of these facilities have licenses under review, don't let these cases just die off......
1. In Utah - Death of boy at Youth Care - Youth Care has contested the licensing suspension. Anyone who cares that they may not recieve any licensing sanction needs to contact DHS by writing or phoning Ken Stettler or Jan Knaphaus, and/or complain that they were not immediately closed down pending the investigation.
Contact info:
Ken Stettler - [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
Licensing Specialist
DHS Office of Licensing
120 North 200 West #303
Salt Lake City UT 84103
(801) 538-8222
2. Closure of Sky View Academy - they have also contested their licensing suspension. Call or write to voice your support not only of the suspension, but also the closure of the facility during the investigation.
Meliss Faul
Bureau Chief at 775-684-4439 or email her at
[email protected]
Unless YOU help to generate a lot of public opionion and demand action, these 2 cases will join the many others where no action was taken. It's time to get busy and voice your opinion.
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Tell your friend she's putting her child at risk of life by placing him in another WWASP ran facility, Spring Creek, Majestic, all WWASP ran facilities are concentration camps. Tell her not to be sold by their packaging, which is all it is. Tell her to bring the child home and seek resources in her local community.
The fact that this happened should have been a heads-up in the first place, it only goes to prove what everyone has been saying. She'd be foolish to even consider placing the child in another program knowing first hand, in-her-face, that these things occur in this unregulated industry. Send her to Fornits.
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My daughter was a 16 year old heroine addict high school drop out who was living on the streets, she was lost and completely against any help we offered her. We picked her up one night and drove her to Montana and enrolled her into Spring Creek Lodge. My daughter can not thank us enough!!! She says we saved her life, she admits to a drug addiction and says she needed help but during the time she was using she really thought we were just crazy and over recting. Now she say's she see's the terrible hold the drugs had on her. My daughter told us that she has learned to LOVE herself and not be ashamed of her past behaviors but to forgive herself and move on with her life. She completed 9th grade while up there and is 1/2 way through the 10th grade, AND she is talking about graduating from high school, and possibly college. She told us that before she really did not care whether or not she lived or died, she just liked to get high. She told us now "Mom I gave myself a LIFE vote!!", with biggest most beautiful smile on he face I have ever seen. There are several success stories out there of kids that graduated these programs. Read the book "Come Back" by Mia Fontane she graduated from Spring Creek Academy. Just thought you should know.[/list][/code][/quote][/u][/i][/b]
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If she was addicted to heroin (not heroine) how was she detoxed there? Was there a medical doctor monitoring her vitals?
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My daughter was a 16 year old heroine addict high school drop out who was living on the streets, she was lost and completely against any help we offered her. We picked her up one night and drove her to Montana and enrolled her into Spring Creek Lodge. My daughter can not thank us enough!!! She says we saved her life, she admits to a drug addiction and says she needed help but during the time she was using she really thought we were just crazy and over recting. Now she say's she see's the terrible hold the drugs had on her. My daughter told us that she has learned to LOVE herself and not be ashamed of her past behaviors but to forgive herself and move on with her life. She completed 9th grade while up there and is 1/2 way through the 10th grade, AND she is talking about graduating from high school, and possibly college. She told us that before she really did not care whether or not she lived or died, she just liked to get high. She told us now "Mom I gave myself a LIFE vote!!", with biggest most beautiful smile on he face I have ever seen. There are several success stories out there of kids that graduated these programs. Read the book "Come Back" by Mia Fontane she graduated from Spring Creek Academy. Just thought you should know.[/list][/code]
[/u][/i][/b][/quote]
Lord, these people can't be helped.......
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She told us now "Mom I gave myself a LIFE vote!!", with biggest most beautiful smile on he face I have ever seen.
::roflmao::
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If she was addicted to heroin (not heroine) how was she detoxed there? Was there a medical doctor monitoring her vitals?
Oh you got me I spelled it wrong, thanks for pointing it out. Her addiction was more mental, she tried it at a party one night, and that is all she wanted to do do for the next 5 or 6 months. This is what she told me later. I did not know she had even ever tried it, so it came as a surprise to me when she informed us of this information. So no she did not have a medical doctor monitoring her vital signs. By the way during the 18 hour long drive to get her there, and the rest of that night and half of the next day I did monitor her very closely, she slept most of the time but her respirations, skin color and cognition were stable. Thanks for the concern. Personally I think it is a drastic measure to send your kid away to a lock down facility, and had I not felt the drastic need to save my daughter I would have thought any one would be crazy to do so. And to tell you the truth at the time I sent her she had been missing for over a week, found out she had been staying with a homeless guy who likes to party with teenage kids and lived in a vacant parking lot in a makeshift leanto, up against a chain link fence made of pallets and card board boxes, I was told his was the 5th one from the brick wall, and thats where we found him........................................So yeah I was Crazy!!! The school is working for us, that is all I can say.
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Your daughter was not an addict in any way shape or form. You've been duped.
Come talk to us a couple years after she's been out. You're in for one helluva ride.
Go get her. Do it now before more damage is done.
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Oh you got me I spelled it wrong, thanks for pointing it out. Her addiction was more mental, she tried it at a party one night, and that is all she wanted to do do for the next 5 or 6 months. This is what she told me later. I did not know she had even ever tried it, so it came as a surprise to me when she informed us of this information. So no she did not have a medical doctor monitoring her vital signs.
Perhaps there should exist a page about the dangers of a level system in such places. The risk of false confessions just to get privileges are just too high. That is why it is not used in Denmark. Not even at our secure juvenile facilities.
The only way you can be sure of the truth is a hair sample within 90 days or a blood test within 7 days. If you are stopped by the police in Denmark on suspicion of DUI, the police would not use even 2 second on any other test than a breathalyzer test. If you fail that test it is not enough to convict you, but the police will drive you to the police station or the nearest hospital and get a blood sample.
You can not trust anyone in such an environment. Not your daughter, not the staff and certainly not the person, you are talking with in the phone. It is a psychological play they are conducting for you and you are charged a ticket price of several thousand dollars without ever knowing the ending while she is at the facility.
Enjoy her happiness and remember that when you in some 5-10 years have heard the last of her.
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Yeah you've been duped by the level system, they have to confess to these things to progress up the levels. Eventually they may even believe it themselves. The happiness and praise for the program is part of the program, to not adopt this attitude would result in her losing levels or not moving up.
If you haven't seen it checkout the Montana PBS documentary "Who's Watching The Kids?" Also try to get in touch with WWASPS survivors here and perhaps on antiwwasps.com. You probably think we are selling you a flaming bowel of shit, but I shit you not... You've been had.
Let me ask you this, if your daughter said that SCL was this horrible place, like what survivors have described, would you really believe her? Or would you say "work your program" and hang up the phone?
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She is not afraid to complain about the program. She has good and bad things to say. She will write home about how horrible the food is, this particular staff member is an asshole, she had to wash pots and pans, some of the girls are mean, it is all just a popularity contest, she thinks so and is a bitch, she does not like addictions group therapy because it just makes her start "fiending" , but she does like NA she finds it helpful, she does not usually like to share in group, but sometimes she feels better afterward, the school work is hard, this teacher does not help her but the other one does. Her letters do not indicate abuse. I have been up to see her in person she looks great, she looks "healthy". Her attitude is positive, we talk on the phone regularly. I am very wary, my eyes and ears are always open. But I have only seen positive growth in her. Personally I couldn't give a shit what level she is on, and I have told her this, I only care where she thinks she is at with herself.
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She is not afraid to complain about the program. She has good and bad things to say. She will write home about how horrible the food is, this particular staff member is an asshole, she had to wash pots and pans, some of the girls are mean, it is all just a popularity contest, she thinks so and is a bitch, she does not like addictions group therapy because it just makes her start "fiending" , but she does like NA she finds it helpful, she does not usually like to share in group, but sometimes she feels better afterward, the school work is hard, this teacher does not help her but the other one does. Her letters do not indicate abuse. I have been up to see her in person she looks great, she looks "healthy". Her attitude is positive, we talk on the phone regularly. I am very wary, my eyes and ears are always open. But I have only seen positive growth in her. Personally I couldn't give a shit what level she is on, and I have told her this, I only care where she thinks she is at with herself.
You may not care about what level she is own but understand that everything is determined by those levels, like contact with you. Letters are screened as are phone calls.
How long has she been in, and how long did it take for her to be allowed contact with you? Did she say anything about the Hobbit?
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"mother SCL kid"
You aren't that girl's mother anymore- assuming you're a real person- and you have no right to call yourself that. You lost that privilege the moment you sent her to WWASPS.
You might be fooling yourself, and Hanzomon might set aside what he knows about SCL to talk to you, but believe me, everyone here knows what goes on at SCL.
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#springcreek (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#springcreek)
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1
Statement from a
Former “Studentâ€
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"mother SCL kid"
You aren't that girl's mother anymore- assuming you're a real person- and you have no right to call yourself that. You lost that privilege the moment you sent her to WWASPS.
You might be fooling yourself, and Hanzomon might set aside what he knows about SCL to talk to you, but believe me, everyone here knows what goes on at SCL.
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#springcreek (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#springcreek)
I get you but lets not beat up this mom, at least not until we know for sure she is fully aware and just doesn't care. Stick around Miss Mom, I really want you to learn about what really goes on in these programs.
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I am still here.
I am and always be her mother. I did not send her away to "get rid" of her. She was a beautiful free spirited young lady who got into something way over her head.
I will not apollogise for not being okay with a kid who comes and goes as she please, and hangs out with homeless kids and homeless adults because they are fun to party with. The "homeless" kids she was hanging out with by the way all had homes and families but choose to be "squatters" (you know just spend the night here and there, eat your food and use your phone and computer for my space, ask to borrow money, but don't pay for anything.). Apparently these kids knew homeless adults, basically 20 and 30'ish year old men who like to party and get drunk and high with teenagers out in the desert and occassionally in cheap hotel rooms probably because the teenagers are young and cute and could get money; some how? Scary shit for a mom to deal with. Scary enough that I chose to send my very much loved about daughter to SCL.
I do however have an open mind, and I am considering what you have to say.
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I read over what I wrote, and it made me feel defensive. Like I am trying to explain "why" I sent my daughter to SCL. Like it is necessary to have a good enough excuse. The bottom line is I am responsible for her, I feared for her safty .
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Yeah, that's usually how it goes.
Look- it doesn't take a whole lot of research here. Search this forum for Spring Creek Lodge. Look around. Find out what The Hobbit is. Look at ISAC. They can't be lying, both by the fact that the stories support each other, the picture of The Hobbit (want your daughter in THERE?), and the oft-stated fact that you seriously can't make this shit up. SCL is an undisputed hellhole. But the people saying this are the ones that are OUT, meaning that while its inmates are still THERE, they're being threatened into not saying anything negative. You don't have to believe me- like almost everything else on Fornits it's been said a dozen times by the people who were there.
You're going to get a lot of this on this forum, so I'll be the first: Go and get your daughter.
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Here: In case you're thinking "this stuff just happened in the past", this one is very, very recent.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=23056 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=23056)
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Here's one from Antiwwasp; they have a whole forum on the subject.
http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16 (http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16)
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Thanks for sticking around Mrs.Mom...
Don't think that we are trying to say that you didn't need any help or invalidate the reason you decided to take this action. The reason why you sent your kid away is not our concern, it's were you sent her. It's important that you get as much information as possible without feeling beat over the head.
Watch the PBS documentary online at the Montana PBS website - Who's watching The Kids? (http://http://www.montanapbs.org/WhosWatchingTheKids/)
Checkout the SCL ISAC page for statements from survivors, news articles, and other information regarding SCL - ISAC SCL page (http://http://isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#springcreek)
This is the Hobbit
(http://http://isaccorp.org/springcreek/hobbit.jpg)
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See the kids name scrawled on the second bench? This is the bed, BTW. See it? He spent 9 months in this little room. It is not heated. He spent the winter there. The winters in Montana are a serious business.
He was brutally "restrained" and as a result needed oral surgery after he was finely brought home. You can read about this in his father's sworn testimony, in federal court, in the WWASP V PURE transcripts.
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I wonder if this mom really knows how many kids will say anything to get the hell out of there? I am also curious if she knows the rate of suicide for the kids who do get out? In the past year the rate of suicide has dramatically increased, which is something else for this mom to take a really good look at.
Moreover, Mom sounds like she's been brainwashed, and I find it strange that she's on this site when her school bbs, and support group pretty much demands she not go here, or anywhere else that is anti-wwasp, which leads me to believe that she's got some doubts, but that's just my opinion.
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See the kids name scrawled on the second bench? This is the bed, BTW. See it? He spent 9 months in this little room. It is not heated. He spent the winter there. The winters in Montana are a serious business.
He was brutally "restrained" and as a result needed oral surgery after he was finely brought home. You can read about this in his father's sworn testimony, in federal court, in the WWASP V PURE transcripts.
No, it's not a bed. It was a place to sit. Hasn't been there for six years. Not heated? Yet the the kid also claimed he burned himself on the heater in that room. And why did the school provide documents that the kid was actually there only about four months? And why did the dad never mention the kid didn't go home (his dad didn't want him home), but to another program--where he later developed oral problems because of decay, not abuse. Buzz, you have bought into the BS and don't even try to get to the truth anymore.
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why did the school provide documents that the kid was actually there only about four months
So 4 months is alright with you? You have got to be kidding?
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Wow.
And this is what they come up with as a defense?
It's like they're so mired in child abuse they can't even remember what they're supposed to tell the parents anymore.
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No, it's not a bed. It was a place to sit. Hasn't been there for six years. Not heated? Yet the the kid also claimed he burned himself on the heater in that room. And why did the school provide documents that the kid was actually there only about four months? And why did the dad never mention the kid didn't go home (his dad didn't want him home), but to another program--where he later developed oral problems because of decay, not abuse. Buzz, you have bought into the BS and don't even try to get to the truth anymore.
And you know all this How?
Isn't that top shelf a bit high for a chair? However, There is no place to sit, except the floor, or that shelf they call a bed.
Plenty of kids have attested to the fact there is no heat in the hobbit. The father testified that the boy's orange froze before he could eat it. A radiator burn would have occurred elsewhere. The boy's face was damaged in a violent take down, where his feet were pulled out from under him - His front teeth did die - because they were broken off under the gum, in that take down - according to his father's in sworn testimony, in Federal court.
If the program could prove that was perjured testimony - don't you think they would - and in court - not an internet forum - especially not one they claim is full of lying manipulators?
This father also spoke of how he had been convinced he must trust the program; until a staff person called him on the QT and told him he needed to go get his son. That was when he learned what a mistake it is to trust the program.
You can hear him for yourself, if you'll watch the Montana PBS documentary: Whose Watching the Kids. I find the man extremely credible. You on the other hand - guest - I find to be a program mouthpiece - with far greater motivation to lie than this father ever had.
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I did not know I was not allowd on here. I appreciate all the concerns and information regaurding the school and their tactics.
Actually my daughter told her sister she is not ready to come yet, said she does not feel she needs to graduate the program, but she is getting caught up with her school work, went in with 1 credit now she is a sophmore. She has pretty much told me that she only wants to catch up on her education and is not going to work the program, says she likes the lower levels better then the upper levels and when she catches up on her school she wants to come home.
She also said she has a drug problem, and needs more time being away from all her old friends, her user buddies. She says that the place sucks but she does feel safe there.
The program wants us to leave her there until she "completes" the program, for the best chance of success. But I am not convinced that it is in her best interest to stay up there until she completes "their" program.
Thanks for all the enlightenment, you do have me thinking and it is easy to get caught up in the propaganda, even yours. But I have decided to pretty much listen to what my daughter thinks is best for her, now that she is SOBER. Preprogram she thought it would be best to drop out of high school live on the streets and "spange" (do you have any spare change)to get drug money. So I can not be totally against the program. Keeping her there until she is 18 and then having her exit and hating us forever though is not an option. That I get, thank you.
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I am still here.
I am and always be her mother. I did not send her away to "get rid" of her. She was a beautiful free spirited young lady who got into something way over her head.
I will not apollogise for not being okay with a kid who comes and goes as she please, and hangs out with homeless kids and homeless adults because they are fun to party with. The "homeless" kids she was hanging out with by the way all had homes and families but choose to be "squatters" (you know just spend the night here and there, eat your food and use your phone and computer for my space, ask to borrow money, but don't pay for anything.). Apparently these kids knew homeless adults, basically 20 and 30'ish year old men who like to party and get drunk and high with teenagers out in the desert and occassionally in cheap hotel rooms probably because the teenagers are young and cute and could get money; some how? Scary shit for a mom to deal with. Scary enough that I chose to send my very much loved about daughter to SCL.
I do however have an open mind, and I am considering what you have to say.
SCL Mom - PLEASE listen to me. My 14 year old son is DEAD.
He died 3 months ago at Youth Care, one of the best rated facilites, no "known" abuse violations, licensed and all that baloney. I would give my right arm, and my left, right now to drive to Utah, and pick him up and bring him home, even if he ended up going back to Juvenile Hall. I beg you, go get your daughter. Like you, I felt like I had no other option. My son was arrested twice for assaulting me, was sleeping with a knife under his mattress, and scaring the hell out of me and my daughter. No local agencies could help me. If I had to do it over again, I would let him sit in Juvenile Hall. I was afraid I was going to lose custody of my beautiful son. I was told he was going to end up homeless or killing someone. Instead I lost him entirely. feel free to create a user account and PM me, I would be happy to share my experience with you. Don't let these folks scare you off fornits. keep reading. They have something valid to share. Please don't give up on your daughter. If you leave her there, she may hate you for the rest of your life. Or, like my little angel, could end up not surviving at all. Read this and contact me. I'll give you my phone number, and we can talk. I know the scary shit you've been through, I lived a nightmare for years, and then lost my husband last year, and had to deal with it as a single, grief stricken mom. I was not OK with my son's behavior, but I'm really not OK that he died because some one thought he was faking, and he died without having his mom there to take care of him. I know he loved me, but I will never know what his final thoughts were during his last several hours of being ignored.
http://http://www.brendanblum.blogspot.com/
PLEASE, GO GET YOUR DAUGHTER. You obviously care about her. Go get her and tell her you love her, and will do whatever it takes, but keep her close and HUG her. I will never ever forget the last hug I gave my son in the airport, telling him to "get with the program" and earn his way back home. The next time I saw him was in the morgue.
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SCL Mom from what I've heard the education at SCL is garbage, truly the credits won't apply. From what I understand they just take test, that's basically it. Kids can hop grades in a matter of months, think about that. Does anyone have any recent information(or links) about SCL education? I know another WWASPS program in New York was sued by the State for providing bunk education and most folks coming out of WWASPSs cite the education as bunk.
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No, it's not a bed. It was a place to sit. Hasn't been there for six years. Not heated? Yet the the kid also claimed he burned himself on the heater in that room. And why did the school provide documents that the kid was actually there only about four months? And why did the dad never mention the kid didn't go home (his dad didn't want him home), but to another program--where he later developed oral problems because of decay, not abuse. Buzz, you have bought into the BS and don't even try to get to the truth anymore.
And you know all this How?
Isn't that top shelf a bit high for a chair? However, There is no place to sit, except the floor, or that shelf they call a bed.
Plenty of kids have attested to the fact there is no heat in the hobbit. The father testified that the boy's orange froze before he could eat it. A radiator burn would have occurred elsewhere. The boy's face was damaged in a violent take down, where his feet were pulled out from under him - His front teeth did die - because they were broken off under the gum, in that take down - according to his father's in sworn testimony, in Federal court.
If the program could prove that was perjured testimony - don't you think they would - and in court - not an internet forum - especially not one they claim is full of lying manipulators?
This father also spoke of how he had been convinced he must trust the program; until a staff person called him on the QT and told him he needed to go get his son. That was when he learned what a mistake it is to trust the program.
You can hear him for yourself, if you'll watch the Montana PBS documentary: Whose Watching the Kids. I find the man extremely credible. You on the other hand - guest - I find to be a program mouthpiece - with far greater motivation to lie than this father ever had.
The boy was at the school four months, not in the Intervention Room. There are documents that attest to this. You'll note that the father also lamented the amount he'd spent, but as it turns out, he had exaggerated that by several times, too. The staff person who called him was the director, who had been urging the dad to remove the boy for several weeks before the school finally threatened to call child protection. The boy was more or less abandoned by his father, who, you might also note, never took this to court for any kind of damages. Apparently, he enjoys the drama of his exaggerations too much to set them before lega scrutiny. The dental records even note that the teeth were not missing, but rife with decay and cavities.
You can read many of these for yourself, if you'll look at the response to the documentary---nine pages of inaccuracies that PBS knew about, and saw documented. Not the least of those is pertinent to your question regarding the school pressing a claim of perjury by the dad: since the school was not a party to that case, and was not even aware it was coming up, there was no valid format for them to force him to tell the truth.
I know all this because, unlike you, I went to the trouble to read the documents, question PBS, and go see for myself. The truth is often much less titillating than Fornits would like, but it ought to at least get a hearing now and then. Maybe that's why PBS has put out 4 different versions of "Who's Watching the Kids," each one tweaked a bit to keep them out of the courts . . .
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SCL Mom from what I've heard the education at SCL is garbage, truly the credits won't apply. From what I understand they just take test, that's basically it. Kids can hop grades in a matter of months, think about that. Does anyone have any recent information(or links) about SCL education? I know another WWASPS program in New York was sued by the State for providing bunk education and most folks coming out of WWASPSs cite the education as bunk.
SCL just completed the accreditation renewal--a four month process. In ten years, they have never had a student go on to another school and have their credits denied, high school or college. When SCL kids joined local public HS kids for standardized testing, the SCL kids scored an average of 8% higher. It was in the local paper.
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Dear Anti "Program" people,
First, a question. Are all "programs" bad, like NA, AA, CA, OA, "the Premier Program"? Or is there a difference between the Premier program and the others?
In reading the posts I have been thinking about some stuff. I understand that there have been casualties at the programs but do you know what happens in Jails and Mental Institutions on a daily basis? Most of these kids end up in those places if their parents do not intervene and employ drastic measures to take their child out of a very destructive environment.
At least these kids are getting some kind of discipline and training at the "program" at jail and Youth Authority (A.k.a. "Gladiator camp" for the young gang members) they get no training or help and no push in the positive direction.
I would much rather my kid be in a program with rules and consequences than in solitary confinement at a prison. It is tragic and sad that some kids get sick and some die, I can not even imagine the pain that those parents have been through and I am not trying to minimize their pain and suffering because it is real and very horrible to have to go through. But, these things, tragic and preventable deaths, happen far more often in jails, prisons and mental institutions than they do in programs like this. I know that should something happen to my child in a program I would go ballistic and I would be on here too telling people how terrible the program is. It is terrible but the truth is that tragedies strike all the time, everywhere!
It is too bad that there is not some nice place, that is free, that everyone can agree on, that will teach our spoiled rotten and entitled children to deal with their feelings without using drugs, joining gangs, or resorting to violence. Unfortunately there is no such place and if there were these kids would work the system and destroy it so quick it would make your head spin.
What do you propose? Take the kids home, let them torture their brothers and sisters, let them kill themselves with drugs and alcohol, drive by shootings and other gang activities? Let them disrespect their parents and not follow the rules of the house? Let them break everything when they get mad?
It is a sad situation and it is true for the most part that the parents create these monsters by not enforcing rules and boundries until it is too late. Many parents want their kids to have what they did not have and give them too much, the kids do not have a work ethic or any sense of respect of responsibility.
What is wrong with a program that teaches them these things? Drastic times call for drastic measures! IS there another alternative that will work?
Can you show me kids who have been "pulled" from the schools who are successful in their lives today or are they all so "traumatized" from their time at the program? The graduates I know from the programs are shining examples of the program and they are successful...Even long term success is achieved by program grads. The stories of the victims would make me not want to pull my child because I would be afraid she would be stuck in the blame game for the rest of her life and she would never accept responsibility for her actions. At least if I had a child there I would keep her there so she would be totally "brainwashed" so she could have a chance at a nice life like so many graduates have.
I like to look at all sides to the issue, and realize that there are concerns, and you are right that it seems as if there are a lot of program people do not like to have their people looking at the anti program stuff....and it makes me suspicious too! At first I thought that it was about money, if people looked at the anti program stuff then they would have a knee jerk reaction and pull their kid and it would affect the schools financially. Now I understand that it is more than that, when someone who has decided to put their child in the school and gets scared and apprehensive and thinks that they have acted too fast or without the proper amount of thought and they get to the anti program stuff and react by pulling their kid it affects everyone. It affects the other kids who will not get pulled, it makes them think that they too will be able to talk themselves out of the program, it makes the whole structure weaker when parents act rashly and put their kids in and out. Putting a child into a school like this is not a decision people should take lightly and it seems to me that that is the case, they do act rashly. Either that or they run out of money and look for ways to rationalize taking their child out. "It is not a good place for my child after all..." if they read the anti program stuff when they are running out of cash, they are missing their child, they are a little weirded out by the whole program thing it is easy to look at the propaganda and take the child back home. ..
So, I do not know what the solution is to this problem. Even if the program really sucks and is bad for the kids what is one to do with their kid who is out of control?
Maybe instead of bashing the program a better way for you anti program people to accomplish your goals would be to offer a realistic alternative that just pull the kid and deal with it. A lot of people do not want to deal with the kid, or the kid will go to jail. It is a tough situation.
Anyone got any ideas? :cry:
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Two days is a middling estimate of the amount of time it takes for an ordinary person to get to Utah.
Two days is also the amount of time it took between Pitbull Mom's impassioned pleas for this woman to get her daughter out of there, and the WWASPies playing hard damage control with enormous amounts of lies and bullshit. (Not even worth replying to. Even the PT9K is giving me a loud electronic HA HA HA when I try to pass this shit to its input.)
Coincidence? I doubt it.
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SPRING CREEK LODGE IS NOT LOCATED IN THE AMERICAN STATE OF UTAH. IT IS LOCATED IN THE AMERICAN STATE OF MONTANA. YOUR CALCULATIONS ARE STILL ROUGHLY ACCURATE, MEATLING.
AND IF YOU THINK I AM GOING TO PASS THIS UNBELIEVALE PROGRAMMIE BULLSHIT THROUGH MY BUFFERS WITHOUT A HIGH-AMPERAGE ENEMA AFTERWARDS (lstephens == on assignment) YOU ARE IN ERROR.
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To think that you are replying to me and calling me a WASSPIE...
Actually you are wrong. Just an educated person wondering why there is this propaganda, on both sides, and there is no attempt to come to a solution.
It just shows me how illogical the whole fight is. Premier is fighting to keep its money and the machine going so they can "help" (the issue in question) these kids, and this group trying to stop them for various reasons.
It is typical for people with an agenda to just take the WORST CASE SCENARIO, get a live example of it to support the propaganda and run with it. When anyone questions the theory the questions are met with anger and assumptions that it is propaganda. Like how you react to my post. It is horrible what happened to those kids and more horrible for you to use them to further your purpose of bashing the schools.
The schools do it too, but not to the extent that it is done here. They more or less just discount your position and provide the real life examples of the successful graduates. I must say the graduates I know are beautiful young adults, full of life and hope! None of the trauma and terror spoken of here! The school reps do also tell nightmare stories of kids who have been "pulled" early who never get better because they return to the same bad situation and their behavior escalates and once they have talked their way out of the program they have no fear of consequences at all. Some are in prison, others are dead. Their families feel that if they had not "pulled" their child the child would be alive today. So you see equally compelling real life examples for parents to consider.
So, who is right, you or them? It would really be great to have a perfect school, where the out of control kids could just change without having to have "interventions" and things like that that are viewed as abusive. Have you ever seen the show "Cops" or the prison show where they take the guys out of the cells by force, or show them killing each other. Those guys are the kids who did not get help.
Have a nice Enema..maybe that combined with therapy and/or a little guided imagery would help you to get rid of that anger and reunite with the magical child within.
:P
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I think you're missing the point wondering, and program parent looking for alternatives.
These programs are abusive by their very nature. They have to be to accomplish what they intend - a person who has had their thinking and behavior modified against their will; i.e. Brainwashed.
All these programs make use of sleep depravation; hunger; fear; abandonment; hopelessness and humiliation to soften the teens up for "modifying". This is a brutal process that inflicts psychic trauma sufficient to more or less guarantee PTSD as a consequence.
On a superficial level it can appear to have "worked" . But the damaged done is festering underneath and will eventually come to the surface. It seem to take roughly 5 years.
Furthermore, what the parents often don't realize is that the appearance of improved behavior is the result of the teens having learned better how to hide what they're up to. Naturally, they are older. Often living on their own. Often the drug use and irresponsible sex is far greater after, than prior to the Program. In other words - it doesn't work to effect positive change.
What is does do is assure a struggle with all the symptoms of PTSD, to one degree or another, for years to follow. It will damage if not devastate the parent child relationship. All those promises of a healed family are bogus.
You'd be amazed at how many of the devoted program faithful who swear the program saved them and their family haven't see or spoken to their child in years. Start asking. Ask them if their child is home yet. Often they make this claim while the teen is still in the program. They can't actually know what kind of effect the program has had. The kid is in a position where they dare not say anything negative. The whole thing is a facade.
In other cases, the teen is out; has been out for years maybe. But they never speak to or visit their parents. Still, the parents will swear the program saved them. They too are perpetrating a lie. They have no idea how their child is doing.
In some cases they do know. They know she is pregnant and can't say which of the several men they have been with might be the dad. They are still using a mix of substances that are harmful to them and the baby. They are making a living in some manner that is not exactly "legitimate". But the parent is still working "their" program. Still insisting it is the greatest thing they ever did. Still swearing it was a success, and that when the teen / young adult decides to use the tools the program gave them they will be fine.
Have you heard the term "Living in a fool's paradise"? There you have the mind set of the pitiful programmed.
You want to know what works? Well, natural consequences can work. Not the un-natural wildly exaggerated consequences used in these programs; but natural consequences. As parents, maybe you shouldn't rush to intervene as often as you no doubt do when the kids screw up and loose a valued item or position at school or on the job.
You shouldn't live in dread of them spending a night or two in jail. This might well do them some good. Ironically a couple nights in jail can have a far more positive effect than a couple years in one of these programs.
If they are hungry b/c they spent their paycheck on booze or pot; feed them. They need sustenance to be able to return to health. But you need not buy them a pizza. A jar of Jiffy and a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk will do. Maybe a bag of pinto beans and a ham hock; with instructions, so they don't break their teeth on dry beans while stoned out of their stupid gourds.
If they are still in your home then set reasonable rules you can both live with. Don't be so strict and unreasonable they are provoked to rebel. And have the consequences be something you are willing and able to implement.
If they are so out of control that they are endangering you and their siblings and themselves you are probably dealing with a mental illness; and these programs are the very worst thing you could possibly do to a person with a mental illness. You may well destroy them utterly if you send them into such a place. They need skilled and appropriate therapy and maybe some help with medication.
If your insurance company denies this care fight them. You can win. But you'll have to educate yourself and be willing to put some real time and effort into the battle.
If your dealing with a mental illness you need to face that fact and do your best to be a help and support, so your child has some chance at recovery. If you force them into a harsh and brutal program with demands and rules that are designed to be impossible for even "normal" teens to manage, you will very likely be subjecting them to never ending assault and humiliation of the kind that would drive anyone insane.
If your dealing with substance abuse issues of a truly worrisome nature - I'd suggest getting a copy of Recovery Options, co-authored by Maia Szalavitz.. Its an excellent book describing the various options that have been proven effective; explain what they each are, who might benifit from them, how they work, and so on.
But again, its important for you to understand, these Syanon based programs do not work. All that makes it appear helpful is a facade that will crumble and fade. The true effects are of a destructive, even devastating nature. This is not propaganda. It is just the truth.
Brain washing requires breaking the mind; and then putting it back together. If you'll read Ken Kay's own comments concerning what they do, you'll see him describing breaking them down to build them back. This is brain washing. You can not do this with out the kind of stress and trauma I spoke of eariler. And, you can not do this with leaving a lot of cracks, that will one day crumble. And on occasion, you can't put them back together at all. These are the poor souls who fall through the program's "acceptable window of loss".
Please, educate yourself with regard to what you are actually paying huge sums of money to have done to your children.
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SCL MOM Wondering,
The Program in Montana SCL is what what htese people are stateing.
Our experience was even worse. I too did the Requird Seminars. They
were interesting I took so positives from them.
In reality it was the seminars that kept us engaged in the Program.The Seminars intentially continued the lies.
Priemier? Ever wonder whay they changed their name?
I like Pitpull Mom,wish with all of my heart I could do it over again.I would NEVER put my kid in a Program. He could suffer the natural consequences. What ever that would have been. Hes freinds all survied .They thrived. Mine didn't. Sadly the damage has been done.
You still have a chance to save your child.
Wondering: Shame on you.
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If she was addicted to heroin (not heroine) how was she detoxed there? Was there a medical doctor monitoring her vitals?
How do you know there is not a doctor there? Have you been there? I have and have seen one.
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SCL Mom from what I've heard the education at SCL is garbage, truly the credits won't apply. From what I understand they just take test, that's basically it. Kids can hop grades in a matter of months, think about that. Does anyone have any recent information(or links) about SCL education? I know another WWASPS program in New York was sued by the State for providing bunk education and most folks coming out of WWASPSs cite the education as bunk.
My son was at SCL for 18 months. Did Great!!! That was 3 yrs ago. Credits were fine. He is in college and doing great. So there. You are a simple minded person with no backing to your claims. There are hundreds of kids that SCL helps. So what do you say to that?
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THE SHILLS ARE OUT IN FORCE!
Looks like that woman pulled her daughter indeed. Good job!
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THE SHILLS ARE OUT IN FORCE!
Looks like that woman pulled her daughter indeed. Good job!
What are you replying too?
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Your idiocy. What else?
Don't even pretend you can still be called that boy's mother, if indeed you've ever actually birthed a child out of that gaping hole. God only knows what actually happened to him.
Yeah yeah, I'm awful and disrespectful and WAH WAH WAH. Save it for someone who gives half a fuck. You paid thousands of dollars to send your kid to a place where someone had the idea to build a tiny little isolation room to keep children in for months on end. Unless I was in a room with you, a scalpel, and an axe, there is nothing I can possibly do to repay something like that. So instead I offer you a different alternative to bothering to reply: Put a .45 magnum under your chin and blow what's left of your brains into the ceiling.
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Your idiocy. What else?
Don't even pretend you can still be called that boy's mother, if indeed you've ever actually birthed a child out of that gaping hole. God only knows what actually happened to him.
Yeah yeah, I'm awful and disrespectful and WAH WAH WAH. Save it for someone who gives half a fuck. You paid thousands of dollars to send your kid to a place where someone had the idea to build a tiny little isolation room to keep children in for months on end. Unless I was in a room with you, a scalpel, and an axe, there is nothing I can possibly do to repay something like that. So instead I offer you a different alternative to bothering to reply: Put a .45 magnum under your chin and blow what's left of your brains into the ceiling.
Wow, I actually could careless about what you think of me. I do feel sorry for whoever is associated with you. Especially loved ones. Wonder what you will be like in 10 yrs. Maybe drug overdose or prison. Keep in touch.
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I love automatic assumptions that those who disagree with you are going to be DEADINSANEORINJAIL.
LOL.
WWASPS is dying, whether or not you sit around to watch and defend it blindly when there is a hulking mass of evidence against it.
:wave:
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I love automatic assumptions that those who disagree with you are going to be DEADINSANEORINJAIL.
LOL.
WWASPS is dying, whether or not you sit around to watch and defend it blindly when there is a hulking mass of evidence against it.
:wave:
I do not mind someone disagree with me. It's the American way. But when you have to resort in violence. That when you know mentally there is something wrong with that person. Agree? You'll be surprised how long WWASP will be around.....
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But when you have to resort in violence. That when you know mentally there is something wrong with that person.
You mean like when five SCL staff members, including "upper level" kids, jump on one kid and hold him there for an hour, regardless of whether or not he's still breathing?
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But when you have to resort in violence. That when you know mentally there is something wrong with that person.
You mean like when five SCL staff members, including "upper level" kids, jump on one kid and hold him there for an hour, regardless of whether or not he's still breathing?
And did this really happen to you? You have no proof!!! I've been there and seen it. Have you?
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Let's see what comes off the top of my head...
Here's some. (http://http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16&page=2)
Finding corroborated reports of abuse at a WWASPS facility is like finding water in the ocean.
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Wait, that link says only one guy jumped on a kid and made him scream in pain, not five! And they said that it's only psychological abuse! So you're all liess and I'll leave my kid there if I please!
...
...I have no right to live. Did you load that .45 with Black Talon?
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My son was at SCL for 18 months. Did Great!!! That was 3 yrs ago. Credits were fine. He is in college and doing great. So there. You are a simple minded person with no backing to your claims. There are hundreds of kids that SCL helps. So what do you say to that?
What do I say to that?
Well. . .
I'd say your son was a lucky young man that his credits passed muster. Sometimes they do slip past. I think it helps, if a high school accepts them, and the kid goes on to graduate from a bonafide HS. But the sad truth is, a lot of kids do have problems getting their credits and diplomas accepted, and they end up taking a GED or an extra year of HS, to get the credits they need for college admission. Occasionally one of these poor kids will write the various web sites asking if anyone can help them prove their credits are accredited. Its very sad.
Glad the boy is "doing great"; but seriously doubt you have any idea how he really is; what he really thinks; or that you ever will.
There are volumes of scholarly material backing everything I have claimed; And tons of student and parent accounts of the abuse and neglect found in each and every WASP related program. But you are not able to understand the significance of all this; because : WASHED BRAINS SHRINK.
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ANd all the other parents who would rather help their kids than see them end up in jail or dead. Yes, we should all be freedom loving people who allow our kids to run wild, end up in jail, get killed. I would rather have my child in isolation in a WAASP school than in prison any day or living in the streets. At least she will not get AIDS at the school, not get pregnant, not get dead. The risk goes down not up in the schools.
Maybe we need statistics of jail vs. the schools. Have a study. The people that you guys convince to take their kids out when their kids die on the street the parents can keep track. Then we can keep track of the kids in the program. I bet you anything more are saved because they are not in a position to harm themselves by virtue of being locked away in a school.
Have you seen what happens in jails...people do not like getting locked up there and they do. They have no choice, they can not control when they get out. Do those people get PTSD from being there? Do they get PTSD from being in a suicide cell with no clothes and only a small blanket, no. THEY GET OVER IT just as do the kids who are sent to the schools. They suck it up, do what they have to, and then get out and do well. Only if they are sissy ass losers do they perpetuate the whole "I am a victim" forever and let theri experience at the school ruin their lives.
As the program says these kids are master manipulators...they have you convinced! The ones who excel get out and do great things. The ones who get pulled play the blame game forever it seems.
Of course if they have addiction that will also have to be addressed bu a 12 step program and then they can maintain sobriety!
A little therapy never hurt anyone.
Example: Britney Spears. She should be locked up to protect herself and then forced to attend a 12 step program. Otherwise she will never get better.
I am not sure what your agenda is here on this site..
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My son was at SCL for 18 months. Did Great!!! That was 3 yrs ago. Credits were fine. He is in college and doing great. So there. You are a simple minded person with no backing to your claims. There are hundreds of kids that SCL helps. So what do you say to that?
What do I say to that?
Well. . .
I'd say your son was a lucky young man that his credits passed muster. Sometimes they do slip past. I think it helps, if a high school accepts them, and the kid goes on to graduate from a bonafide HS. But the sad truth is, a lot of kids do have problems getting their credits and diplomas accepted, and they end up taking a GED or an extra year of HS, to get the credits they need for college admission. Occasionally one of these poor kids will write the various web sites asking if anyone can help them prove their credits are accredited. Its very sad.
Glad the boy is "doing great"; but seriously doubt you have any idea how he really is; what he really thinks; or that you ever will.
There are volumes of scholarly material backing everything I have claimed; And tons of student and parent accounts of the abuse and neglect found in each and every WASP related program. But you are not able to understand the significance of all this; because : WASHED BRAINS SHRINK.
:o
:o The percentage of students who receive credits and diplomas are higher than the ones who do not. Your exaggerating. And don't doubt my relationship with my son. It is great. And I know him very well.
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If you know him that well why is he in SCL?
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Let's see what comes off the top of my head...
Here's some. (http://http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16&page=2)
Finding corroborated reports of abuse at a WWASPS facility is like finding water in the ocean.
Again, have you been there? Or witness things your self?
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If you know him that well why is he in SCL?
He is not there anymore he graduated program and doing well. I knew him so well that he needed to put into a program to save him.
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Reminds me of what they said in Vietnam, "We burned the village down to save it."
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(http://http://www.torturedkids.com/obvious.jpg)
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Reminds me of what they said in Vietnam, "We burned the village down to save it."
What? Are you an idiot? Have you ever had a teen who got involved in drugs or things that could harm or kill them. Have you ever lost sleep at night wondering where or what is happening to them?
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Worst yet... I used to work as a youth counselor.
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Let's see what comes off the top of my head...
Here's some. (http://http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16&page=2)
Finding corroborated reports of abuse at a WWASPS facility is like finding water in the ocean.
Again, have you been there? Or witness things your self?
Have YOU been to the program?
Hey, have you been to CHINA? Is it what everyone says it is?
Have you been to the MOON? Think its a big rock or a hunk of cheese?
Thats a pretty fickle excuse. A preponderance of evidence and thousands of witnesses giving consistent testimony can't be countered with "WELL YOU YOURSELF WERE NOT THERE"
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(http://http://www.torturedkids.com/obvious.jpg)
Sooo that is suppose to what? Hurt me? And why would it make you shit bricks? Thought intelligent people where involved on this website. I can see that is not true.
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(http://http://www.torturedkids.com/obvious.jpg)
Either that or a very realistic troll.
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Worst yet... I used to work as a youth counselor.
Oh so you should know better.
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Shitting bricks is a JOKE!!! (http://http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Shit_Bricks)
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Let's see what comes off the top of my head...
Here's some. (http://http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16&page=2)
Finding corroborated reports of abuse at a WWASPS facility is like finding water in the ocean.
Again, have you been there? Or witness things your self?
Have YOU been to the program?
Hey, have you been to CHINA? Is it what everyone says it is?
Have you been to the MOON? Think its a big rock or a hunk of cheese?
Thats a pretty fickle excuse. A preponderance of evidence and thousands of witnesses giving consistent testimony can't be countered with "WELL YOU YOURSELF WERE NOT THERE"
Actually been China, beautiful! Can't say I have been to the moon.
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Let's see what comes off the top of my head...
Here's some. (http://http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16&page=2)
Finding corroborated reports of abuse at a WWASPS facility is like finding water in the ocean.
Again, have you been there? Or witness things your self?
Have YOU been to the program?
Hey, have you been to CHINA? Is it what everyone says it is?
Have you been to the MOON? Think its a big rock or a hunk of cheese?
Thats a pretty fickle excuse. A preponderance of evidence and thousands of witnesses giving consistent testimony can't be countered with "WELL YOU YOURSELF WERE NOT THERE"
Actually been China, beautiful! Can't say I have been to the moon.
What about the thousands of testimony of students that benefited. More than the ones who haven't. Manipulation goes a long way.
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Actually been China, beautiful! Can't say I have been to the moon.
SCL mom - is your program child an adopted child? I'm wondering if you adopted from China - and then sent the kid to get brain washed, Chinese style, in the American program. (talk about life's little ironies)
Oh - and I have spent many a sleepless night worried sick about my kids. Their antics would turn the most relaxed parent's hair gray. Somehow they survived. They have been to jail once or twice for a night or two. Survived that to. One actually once ran away with a circus. Another time took off with the rainbow people. She was attacked by a homeless lady with a rusty nail. She was bit by a rattle snake. She got over heated and dehydrated in the Grand Canyon. But she survived - no doubt because she was with friends and strangers were allowed to help. Had she been in one of these programs, she'd be dead.
I myself was once a bit of a party chick. I should have died on a couple of occasions. Some of the people I ran with were very dangerous. I do mean very. I've no idea how I survived to suffer so at the hands of my own kids - but I did.
The point is, this certainty you have in your head that your child would be dead with out the program is a fallacy, based on propaganda, fed to you to keep you afraid not to trust the program.
Jail might be more a certainty if your dealing with substance abuse - but jail would be much better for them that these programs. Jail and the court system might actually get them into legitimate and helpful therapy and vocational training. I'll tell ya, after a stint on one of these program holes, jail is a cake walk. I've been told that over and over from Kids who have had their fair share of both.
And so - your a salesperson in Utah?
Selling the program are we? That's the question.
'Course there are lots of salespersons in Utah. Could be any number of things. But that will make a person wonder.
What about the thousands of testimony of students that benefited.
All written while still in the program trying to get out.
More than the ones who haven't.
Says who? You've barely scratched the surface here ya know. And many of them can tell you all about those glowing testimonies they write for the program after the seminars.
Manipulation goes a long way.
It sure as shit does.
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Actually been China, beautiful! Can't say I have been to the moon.
SCL mom - is your program child an adopted child? I'm wondering if you adopted from China - and then sent the kid to get brain washed, Chinese style, in the American program. (talk about life's little ironies)
Oh - and I have spent many a sleepless night worried sick about my kids. Their antics would turn the most relaxed parent's hair gray. Somehow they survived. They have been to jail once or twice for a night or two. Survived that to. One actually once ran away with a circus. Another time took off with the rainbow people. She was attacked by a homeless lady with a rusty nail. She was bit by a rattle snake. She got over heated and dehydrated in the Grand Canyon. But she survived - no doubt because she was with friends and strangers were allowed to help. Had she been in one of these programs, she'd be dead.
I myself was once a bit of a party chick. I should have died on a couple of occasions. Some of the people I ran with were very dangerous. I do mean very. I've no idea how I survived to suffer so at the hands of my own kids - but I did.
The point is, this certainty you have in your head that your child would be dead with out the program is a fallacy, based on propaganda, fed to you to keep you afraid not to trust the program.
Jail might be more a certainty if your dealing with substance abuse - but jail would be much better for them that these programs. Jail and the court system might actually get them into legitimate and helpful therapy and vocational training. I'll tell ya, after a stint on one of these program holes, jail is a cake walk. I've been told that over and over from Kids who have had their fair share of both.
And so - your a salesperson in Utah?
Selling the program are we? That's the question.
'Course there are lots of salespersons in Utah. Could be any number of things. But that will make a person wonder.
What about the thousands of testimony of students that benefited.
All written while still in the program trying to get out.
More than the ones who haven't.
Says who? You've barely scratched the surface here ya know. And many of them can tell you all about those glowing testimonies they write for the program after the seminars.
Manipulation goes a long way.
It sure as shit does.
I am a Real Estate agent. But that doesn't matter does it. My child is not adopted. But that doesn't matter also. Just a parent with a different view and had a good experience with SCL. You are soooo twisted and wrong it is pathetic. I was little bit of a party girl also. But new my limitations. My son was getting into scary shit. And could not stop. So I opted for help and it worked. Did not know that my back ground was so important
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I am a Real Estate agent. But that doesn't matter does it. My child is not adopted. But that doesn't matter also. Just a parent with a different view and had a good experience with SCL. You are soooo twisted and wrong it is pathetic. I was little bit of a party girl also. But new my limitations. My son was getting into scary shit. And could not stop. So I opted for help and it worked. Did not know that my back ground was so important
What you do for a living doesn't matter, unless you make a living working for the program. Then it becomes a matter of interest. Its not unheard of for a program owner or other staff persons to post as if they are students or happy parents, in an attempt to hi-jack the threads or even an entire forum.
Adopted or not doesn't matter; but there are such large numbers of adopted and step children placed in these programs, that it is a subject of interest. Why are adopted kids and step children so over represented? Its occasionally a subject of discussion. And as I mentioned, it would be so ironic if you had adopted a child from China, and brought the poor soul here for Chinese style thought reform; which is exactly what you and your child have endured in this program.
How am I twisted and wrong? Be specific. Fight the conditioning to dismiss all critics with out any real thinking on your part. Think, and do some research into the subject of disagreement - outside of the program mantras and material. Read a few books on recovery, what helps and what hurts. Read a few books on cults and brainwashing. Then come tell me how I am wrong or twisted.
All your going on, is what the Program has conditioned you to think. It serves their purpose and profit - and nothing else.
DeadorinJail is a lie fed to you, to keep you afraid to leave the cult.
There are many program survivors here on this forum, and others. If you can tone down your program crap just a little, and listen, you might learn something about what is real, and what isn't.
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Folks this SCL mom is a joke.
Stop wasting your time. Its probably Lisa selling her lies some more.
"Step left" mommy scl dearest "Step left"
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I have requested the transcripts, I have talked to the school superintendent here where I live, they are going to let me know whether the classes taken will be credited towards her high school requirements. I have read all the responses here and now feeling a little overwhelmed.
I only want what is best for my kid. And yes at the time that we sent her there I can honestly say we saved her life. Do I believe she needs to "complete the program" in order to be sucessful, or that she will end up right back where she started, NO!!! She did definitely need a huge wake up call. I think it is great that there are people out there investigating these schools and pushing for regulations and oversite. We are spending a huge amount of money, all well worth it to save our kids.
Natural consequences are fine and dandy, but taking a chance with my kids life is not acceptable. I am glad everyone survived their "wild" days, I did too, I know of many who did not.
Dear Pitbull Mom, I am terribly sorry for your loss. That is awful. Thank you for reaching out to me and other parents and doing what you do to stir things up so that what happened to you might not happen to someone else.
Who ever put that SCL myspace website info out there, WOW, interesting, A lot of those kids are graduates, and they sound horrible and ugly and mean. Some of them sound reasonable and well adjusted and healthy. It was informative in a very big way for me. That website in and of it self could desaude many a parent from the school.
Still here.
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So let's see if we've got this right: You're going to leave your daughter in a place where they have a tiny isolation room which YOU JUST SAW THE FUCKING PICTURE OF, and then go onto an SCL victims' Myspace and talk about horrible, ugly, and mean?
Fuck you, lady. Fuck you. I hope your "daughter"- as you have no right to call her that anymore- sticks a three-inch knife between your ribs while you sleep, over and over again, only lightly perforating the lungs so it takes you half an hour to lose consciousness and die.
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I call troll on this whole topic clear from Post #15. No one can be this stupid. This woman CAN NOT be this callous. She would have had three abortions by the time her daugther went to term.
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Worst yet... I used to work as a youth counselor.
Oh so you should know better.
I do know better that is why I fight to put programmes out of business.
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I have requested the transcripts, I have talked to the school superintendent here where I live, they are going to let me know whether the classes taken will be credited towards her high school requirements. I have read all the responses here and now feeling a little overwhelmed.
I only want what is best for my kid. And yes at the time that we sent her there I can honestly say we saved her life. Do I believe she needs to "complete the program" in order to be sucessful, or that she will end up right back where she started, NO!!! She did definitely need a huge wake up call. I think it is great that there are people out there investigating these schools and pushing for regulations and oversite. We are spending a huge amount of money, all well worth it to save our kids.
Natural consequences are fine and dandy, but taking a chance with my kids life is not acceptable. I am glad everyone survived their "wild" days, I did too, I know of many who did not.
Dear Pitbull Mom, I am terribly sorry for your loss. That is awful. Thank you for reaching out to me and other parents and doing what you do to stir things up so that what happened to you might not happen to someone else.
Who ever put that SCL myspace website info out there, WOW, interesting, A lot of those kids are graduates, and they sound horrible and ugly and mean. Some of them sound reasonable and well adjusted and healthy. It was informative in a very big way for me. That website in and of it self could desaude many a parent from the school.
Still here.
Mom, I respect your efforts to get to the truth. I worked at SCL for years, and their credits always transferred. Overall, SCL has been a leader in the state and the region, raising the bar for other Montana schools, and pushing hard for some effective regulation.
My experience with grads? They get out there and keep learning through trial and error. The ones who use the tools they got at SCL--communication, choice-making, etc.-- eventually do really well. None of them go home perfect or fixed; they just go better informed about their own needs and abilities, and better prepared to stay healthy. I wish you the best with yours.
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YOU don't even believe that. What makes you think we will?
CAPTCHA: banned industry
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They get out there and keep learning through trial and error.
This is what kids do. This is how they learn and mature. The program has nothing to do with this - except throwing a whole lot of needless complications into the mix, that actually slow the process.
-- eventually do really well.
As most all kids do - given time - and support through the ruff spots - As long as they aren't to seriously crippled with PTSD as a result of program meddling. As long as they haven't had some other mental illness made much worse, by the incompetent, inappropriate, gross miss-handling of their symptoms.
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Believe what you know. I read blogs like this all the time. One entertaining thing about this one though, notice all the hate and discontent, the irritated way you are being talked too. The downright rude and childish behavior. Do you think you would hear that from a child who had graduated the program? No, not likely, they are a better class of people. The wouldn't attack someone for voicing their belief in something....as you didn't when you voiced yours.....Get off this site and quit giving them what they are looking for.....STAND IN YOUR OWN EXCELLENCE and let them waller in their self-defeat.
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Entertained, your post really hits home because I was going to end up exactly like you. I thought of kids the same way you do, especially the ones who always kept picking on me in high school. I probably would have made comments like yours if the Internet had been around then, too, but that was after my time.
My parents raised me Mormon and I wanted to get a job with WWASPS too. Thing is, I never actually started working at SCL or any other WWASPS facility, I died in a car wreck before I could get hired. I had a whole long list of other sins under my belt, but it wasn't that much so they let us have AOL on this level. It's let me learn a lot of things, but I learned a lot more from the cultists in here. They swear up and down WWASPS is the same shit. I wouldn't be surprised, now.
You, though.. you probably won't be so lucky. Especially since you're committing them in the name of Christ. He REALLY hates that. Take it from me, locking kids up for months in a tiny room isn't going to win you any favors from that throne.
But be sure to tell the big dark guy everything you did! Especially that part about those seminars, and don't forget the whole calling-them-all-manipulators bit. I'm sure it'll light him up good! Just remember, you're not going to be lying your way out of here...
DAMN I wish I had gone to college instead of trying to get a job.. what is it called? Illegally incarcerating? Controlling? Destroying lives? Extraordinary rendition, is that what they're calling it now? Fuck it, you know what I mean. Oh well. You're not going to listen to me and this computer is slooow. See you soon!
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Believe what you know. I read blogs like this all the time. One entertaining thing about this one though, notice all the hate and discontent, the irritated way you are being talked too. The downright rude and childish behavior. Do you think you would hear that from a child who had graduated the program? No, not likely, they are a better class of people. The wouldn't attack someone for voicing their belief in something....as you didn't when you voiced yours.....Get off this site and quit giving them what they are looking for.....STAND IN YOUR OWN EXCELLENCE and let them waller in their self-defeat.
Oh you are to funny! Really! Not get a load of hateful caterwauling from the program grads?! You can not be serious. Now, I'll grant you, many of them are sweet kids, who only want to explain they feel the program helped them. But there is no shortage of those who will respond to something like, say, a news paper story, with several large type "Fuck You!!" z. I have seen it time and time again. I have frequently been attacked by grads (and their parents) as a looser, whose kid is bound to be deadorinjail. This from total strangers, who know nothing about me or my family. They base this on nothing more than the knowledge I am a critic of their program/ cult.
It would be hilarious, if it weren't so sad.
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Don't go lumping all of them into one basket, Buzz: A lot of the "graduates" (they have no right to use that word) are on anti-wwasps.
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Don't go lumping all of them into one basket, Buzz: A lot of the "graduates" (they have no right to use that word) are on anti-wwasps.
Oh certainly - and thats an important point. Many of the graduates (and they have every right to use the word, if they endured the full term programming) go through the entire process, fully aware of the realities, and simply talking the talk to get free of it; then telling the truth once able.