Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 15, 2007, 10:35:21 AM
-
The thread where this was posted got painseries'd and square wave'd, so repost.
You can expend a great deal of energy bickering about whether physical conditions can be deemed abusive or not. The physical conditions are, when all is said and done, merely symptoms and crude barometers of where the true, diabolical abuse often lies: deep in the psyche of the kids that go to these places.
I can think of camping experiences I've had where the physical conditions might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem "abusive," but I did not consider them abusive. Why? I wasn't being brainwashed. It was summer camp, not reprogramming.
On the other hand, there are places like ASR where some of the kids experience conditions that can be deemed physically abusive, but some do not. Depends on the kid and the particular dynamic with personnel that are there at that given point in time, etc. etc. Something might be said about what kind of number gets done on a kid's head seeing that shit go on around you, whether you, yourself, have to jump through those hoops or not. 'Cuz real point of places like ASR is reprogramming, and the way that it gets done is psychologically abusive, whether you can put your finger on specific "evidence" or not. Much of the damage done does not surface right away, might even take years to surface for some kids.
There is also something else I should say about places like this. There is such a power trip mentality going on amongst many of the staff (they get psyched into this by the program), and such a degradation of respect for other people's autonomy (inherent to the reprogramming), that these conditions often end up translating into sexual abuse of the minors who get sent here to get "fixed" and "straightened out." Again, it can take years before those truths see the light of day. Those kids are informed that they are "special," that other people "wouldn't understand," blah blah blah... Just a heads up for you, for what it's worth...
-
Nice catch. Nice post.
:tup:
-
The thread where this was posted got painseries'd and square wave'd, so repost.
You can expend a great deal of energy bickering about whether physical conditions can be deemed abusive or not. The physical conditions are, when all is said and done, merely symptoms and crude barometers of where the true, diabolical abuse often lies: deep in the psyche of the kids that go to these places.
I can think of camping experiences I've had where the physical conditions might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem "abusive," but I did not consider them abusive. Why? I wasn't being brainwashed. It was summer camp, not reprogramming.
On the other hand, there are places like ASR where some of the kids experience conditions that can be deemed physically abusive, but some do not. Depends on the kid and the particular dynamic with personnel that are there at that given point in time, etc. etc. Something might be said about what kind of number gets done on a kid's head seeing that shit go on around you, whether you, yourself, have to jump through those hoops or not. 'Cuz real point of places like ASR is reprogramming, and the way that it gets done is psychologically abusive, whether you can put your finger on specific "evidence" or not. Much of the damage done does not surface right away, might even take years to surface for some kids.
There is also something else I should say about places like this. There is such a power trip mentality going on amongst many of the staff (they get psyched into this by the program), and such a degradation of respect for other people's autonomy (inherent to the reprogramming), that these conditions often end up translating into sexual abuse of the minors who get sent here to get "fixed" and "straightened out." Again, it can take years before those truths see the light of day. Those kids are informed that they are "special," that other people "wouldn't understand," blah blah blah... Just a heads up for you, for what it's worth...
A better place for this post, I agree.
Hmmm..Urus, we almost agree on some points. I have been chasing some of this here on fornits for some time. Abuse is a personal and relative term. Not having 24/7 access to a phone is not considered abusive to most people. Some kids feel the few times they do get to phone home is abusive and others wish they could talk more often, so no matter how you structure the rules there will be those who feel it to be unfair (abusive).
Any unhealthy external stimuli the children are exposed to can be considered psychological abuse, if kids are exposed to abuse around them, fist fights, drug overdoses, road rage, controlling relationships etc. even if it isn’t being done to them it can be just as damaging in most cases and the effects may not be immediately evident or come to the surface.
The environment at ASR, and schools like them, are free from these types of outside stresses that are harmful to kids. The environment allows the kids to get back to a healthy life style thru structure, nurturing, peer support and adult modeling. It’s modifying a child’s behavior by providing them with a safe place to grow and get back on track, giving them healthy choices, not brain washing. Many people posting here are basing their views on phased out programs which didn’t work over 30 years ago. Its frustrating watching peoples outdated information being misapplied to some of these better schools which are constantly evolving and improving as new studies emerge.
As far as staff abusing the children, I would have to say that anytime you put people in charge of kids there is a risk of those people in charge to abuse their power, whether it be in your local school system, summer camp counselor or staff at a boarding school. But the boarding school staff work with at-risk youths full time and are trained in this area, most are working towards higher degrees in the mental health field and are gaining experience working with children. This isn’t just a summer job for them to make money, most are on a well defined and determined path towards a long career in the industry. Schools like ASR also do further screening and training, staff rotations etc. to ensure this doesn’t occur.
Okay, I'll step off my soapbox, just my 2 cents.
-
Not having 24/7 access to a phone is not considered abusive to most people. Some kids feel the few times they do get to phone home is abusive and others wish they could talk more often, so no matter how you structure the rules there will be those who feel it to be unfair (abusive).
No, its the context in which the calls are either prohibited or monitored. There is no reason in the world why a kid shouldn't be able to speak to their parents on request with no interference from the staff. The reason programs prevent private conversations is to maintain the isolation and control over the child. Its like the "talk "privilege" at Straight. Once we "earned the right" to speak to our own parents, it was under the strict supervision of staff and any mention of criticism or complaint and the talk was immediately halted and the parents were told that we were lying to manipulate them into pulling us out.
Its all about thought, environment and information control.
Any unhealthy external stimuli the children are exposed to can be considered psychological abuse, if kids are exposed to abuse around them, fist fights, drug overdoses, road rage, controlling relationships etc. even if it isn’t being done to them it can be just as damaging in most cases and the effects may not be immediately evident or come to the surface.
The environment at ASR, and schools like them, are free from these types of outside stresses that are harmful to kids. The environment allows the kids to get back to a healthy life style thru structure, nurturing, peer support and adult modeling. It’s modifying a child’s behavior by providing them with a safe place to grow and get back on track, giving them healthy choices, not brain washing. Many people posting here are basing their views on phased out programs which didn’t work over 30 years ago. Its frustrating watching peoples outdated information being misapplied to some of these better schools which are constantly evolving and improving as new studies emerge.
Because its based on and using the same methodologies, techniques and approaches as what Straight and the rest are.
As far as staff abusing the children, I would have to say that anytime you put people in charge of kids there is a risk of those people in charge to abuse their power, whether it be in your local school system, summer camp counselor or staff at a boarding school. But the boarding school staff work with at-risk youths full time and are trained in this area, most are working towards higher degrees in the mental health field and are gaining experience working with children. This isn’t just a summer job for them to make money, most are on a well defined and determined path towards a long career in the industry. Schools like ASR also do further screening and training, staff rotations etc. to ensure this doesn’t occur.
Nope. Stanford Prison Study is all you need to know. Especially because these places are largely staffed by former clients/patients (inmates) who have been spoonfed the same bullshit that's been passed down for oh, what? 40 years now? They're not exactly the healthiest of subjects to begin with and putting them in a position of such absolute power over vulnerable teenagers is insane.
http://www.prisonexp.org/ (http://www.prisonexp.org/)
-
Just in case everyone forgot what we're actually talking about here, here's one of your previous posts, Anne.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=244399#244399 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=244399#244399)
-
Anne, if you notice all your reference material comes from the 1970's...your prison study was done in 1971 and doesnt even apply to a therapeutic enviornment...even if you referenced data from the late 1990's I would have to say it is outdated.
As far as the phones go I dont think anyone buys into the fact that not having phones is abusive...I would argue that giving all the kids gameboys and cell phones to use at will would be equally abusive to themselves and no one is going to hop on the phone and start telling the parents their kids are lieing to them....its an open communication enviornment....nothing would work if staff did things like that. You have no point of refernce to argue about what goes on at ASR, you havent been there and havent had kids attend there.
-
Anne, if you notice all your reference material comes from the 1970's...your prison study was done in 1971 and doesnt even apply to a therapeutic enviornment...even if you referenced data from the late 1990's I would have to say it is outdated.
As far as the phones go I dont think anyone buys into the fact that not having phones is abusive...I would argue that giving all the kids gameboys and cell phones to use at will would be equally abusive to themselves and no one is going to hop on the phone and start telling the parents their kids are lieing to them....its an open communication enviornment....nothing would work if staff did things like that. You have no point of refernce to argue about what goes on at ASR, you havent been there and havent had kids attend there.
Its not just "phones" themselves. Its denying, restricting or monitoring communication between parent and child. The fact that you keep bringing up the game boy and cell phone references smacks of the attitude that these are nothing more than spoiled kids not getting what they want.
How typically program of you.
-
Denying and restricting is just that, not allowing the kids to have a phone 24/7.
You as a parent should know this isnt healthy, kids shouldnt be on the phone all the time or engaged in constant gameboy activity, there needs to be restrictions.
-
Denying and restricting is just that, not allowing the kids to have a phone 24/7.
You as a parent should know this isnt healthy, kids shouldnt be on the phone all the time or engaged in constant gameboy activity, there needs to be restrictions.
That's not what we're talking about at all and you know it. We're talking about censoring and restricting communication between a parent and child.
-
Not censuring, but restricting, yes. There needs to be limits put on phone use as well as the times they eat, sleep etc.
-
Not censuring, but restricting, yes. There needs to be limits put on phone use as well as the times they eat, sleep etc.
BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. We're talking about how if a 'student' complains about conditions or treatment, the parents are told they're being manipulative and lying. Why can a child not have UNMONITORED COMMUNICATION with their child? Why can't a child call their parent when they feel the need to? We're not talking about keeping them from calling their old friends, we're talking about why programs feel the need to monitor or restrict communication (not just calls, letter are read and handed back to the student if they're not 'suitable') between a PARENT and child?
-
My cell phone didn’t work up there at ASR one time and I used the same phones the kids use to call home. There was a bank of phones, like one of those test benches at the library with partitions for privacy and it was also the same area that staff used, it had desks, but it was about 10-20 feet away and staff were always in the room in case there was a conflict, but they could not hear the individual conversations. My daughter and I spoke fine and she felt she could talk openly.
-
THIS is the kind of bullshit we're talking about.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=244399#244399 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=244399#244399)
J
He had two major depressions by the time he was 14; he was a ?different? and musically gifted child who was bullied. As a defense, he started dressing like a Goth and hanging out with Goths?he had a lot of suicidal ideation. The public high school would not keep him because of his suicidal talk and when he got to the ER, he denied suicidal ideation. It was a mess and I wanted him supervised 24/7 BUT not in a hospital short term because he had long-term problems that he needed time to address. Someone in the posts above suggested a ?regular? boarding school?none would have taken a Goth who talked about the desirability of dying ASAP. He only actually made one weak suicidal gesture, but I take this risk VERY seriously in a teen with major depression.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)
There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)
Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
1) What is self-study?
2) Describe this Escorting more please?
3) Why was a student doing the escorting of a self-harming/suicidal resident and not a staff member?
A self study was the worst of the three major consequences. (reflection, challenge, self study). You had work projects, all free time was spent at your table, facing the wall. Lots of writing assignments. Loss of all privileges. Standing during all meetings. You most likely had strict bans
Basically I had to take her back to the dorm and be with her while she gathered up her things and changed, etc. I don't remember if she showered or not. I was basically there to make sure she didn't attempt again.
I don't know why they had me do it. I was "trusted" at that point, and honestly... probably a better choice than some of the staff.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=15 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=15)
yes, they did. to a large degree. Dean Kent (the staff mentioned in the article) was gone by the time i had arrived. (he was there in 1997, and i got to ASR in Cummington, MA on January 5th of 1998) i had heard from other students about Dean, that he was a really nice guy but fired b/c he'd called DSS on them. Brett Carey was still the Dean of Student Life when i arrived, and his wife Lisa also helped in the fitness department & was pregnant when i first arrived. They had 2 other daughters, Madison & Carly. The whole thought was a bit frightening, because when we had the 2 hour group "therapy" sessions 2 times a week, they were harsh and abusive to say the least. All of us students would be split into 2 groups, and we'd be rounded up in a circle to get screamed at, belittled and dehumanized. They called it "confrontational", although it was more like verbal abuse and intentional slaughtering.
i was very afraid while i was there, as a student with an extensive sexual abuse history involving rape & incest, i was constantly the target of this slaughtering, esp. b/c i was overweight at the time. needless to say, i left ASR with anorexia some 19 months later.
Brett & other students were all allowed to scream vulgarities at you, called you a "fat bitch, slut," and all. at the age of 15 i learned the word "dildo" while playing scrabble with Brett. One of my roomates claimed that Brett had forced her into sexual operations.
Most of all, it was excusable for students to haze each other.
It was almost looked at as funny. One Staff named Kristen Merhoff gave me funny looks and made sarcastic and patronizing comments when i'd opened up to her about my eating disorder.
Later on, a staff named Amy Robichaud would scream at me for ruining my life, pushing everyone away, talking about how i was a disasterous person, unworthy of being loved. To say the least, she was an abusive person, much alike a person in the throws of an addiction like alchoholism & drug addictions, both of which she admittedly had. There was a great deal of favoritism there, even staff who seemed to want to gain the approval of certain students.
The labor & sleep deprivation that was mentioned in the article is most likely in reference to the "Lifesteps". These were so called "workshops" it was mandatory for all students to attend. Staff and students would be expected to open up there deepest and most unknown
secrets for the sake of "growing". It's true, there was little sleeping allowed & often i myself left feeling shamed & ridiculed.
i was one of the main targets in that school the entire time i was there, a target of hazing & was even blamed for a student breaking into the med office and comsuming large quantities of my prescriptions. For the first 5 months i was there, you could litterally leave, go smoke 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, drop a couple tabs of acid, take like 5 hits off a joint come back & they wouldn't even realize it.
ASR is, to say the least, a very very fucked up place. i have several more things to say, but this whole thing would take eons.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=30 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=30)
I am a former student at ASR. I was in the first peer group, 97-98. My experience there haunts me to this day. I have read many articles that refer to the "old staff" and "new staff". I cannot speak for the way ASR is run now, being 2004, but I can speak for how it was run in 97 and 98. Let me start by saying that I am not an angry, defiant kid who is trying to start trouble for ASR. I have graduated high school and am about to graduate college and enter law school. I don't get into trouble, I am a productive member of society, and want people to know the truth. We were badgered, belittled, sworn at, made to stay up all night during "life steps" and given only small rations of food, had all calls to our parents monitored by staff and had the phone hung up on us if we tried to complain to our parents about these things, scrutinized and humiliated on a daily basis. Our mail was read, staff lost their voices by yelling so loudly at us, I personally was called a "slut", a rich little Daddysgirl, a doormat, told my dad tried to buy my love with money, made to discuss personal sexual and private experiences in group sessions with other peers, made to write a ten page paper by hand about what my "issues" were, and if the staff didn't like it, I started over ( this was because I was too close to my friend there, and they put us on bans so we couldn't talk to each other). People, whomever wants to hear specific stories about all of these things, I would be more than happy to share with you!!! email me at [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) i bet i can help you get her out of there
I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=60)
I am a an ASR graduate. I graduated in October of 03. At the end of the program I believed that ASR had done a lot for me. Looking back I am shocked that I ever thought that. I was made to turn against my friends and turn them in for the slightest rule breaking (for example listening to music). In group we were often degraded and yelled at, supposedly to make us better. Several times I was suicidal and instead of worrying they told me I was lying and being manipulative. In one group eveyone was allowed to go around and say their judgements against everyone else things like "youre a fat slut". That group was horrible. You were scared into being good and behaving. I'm not sure why I thought this place was so great, I feel as if I was brainwashed in a way.
The wilderness experience was horrible. I spent over 40 days in the outdoors being punished for any little thing we did wrong. My first day I had to run 20 minutes and when I stopped the counselers screamed at me and when i vomited they didnt care. just told me i shouldt have drank so muich water.
[
Bump.
Thanks for finding it anon.
:wink:
The above is essentially no different from Straight or the others. Sure there are some superficial differences, but not the kind that matter. The heart of Synanon's 'Therapeutic Community" approach and "The Game" beat in all of them.
-
So at least you can see that the phones are not totally banned and conversations are not listened in on. There needs to be limits placed on the number of calls.....
many kids complain, yes, but they are use to having their cell phone with them and it is an adjustment for them.
-
So at least you can see that the phones are not totally banned and conversations are not listened in on. There needs to be limits placed on the number of calls.....
many kids complain, yes, but they are use to having their cell phone with them and it is an adjustment for them.
No, I never said that. You did. Don't put words in my mouth. The postings above by the victims of ASR speak volumes.
-
I just wanted to establish that the kids had access to phones, where able to call home and their calls were not monitored.
There seems to be a huge misconception here, I saw their setup and my daughter used it...its nothing like straight.... just wanted to clear that up.
-
I just wanted to establish that the kids had access to phones, where able to call home and their calls were not monitored.
There seems to be a huge misconception here, I saw their setup and my daughter used it...its nothing like straight.... just wanted to clear that up.
Well, that's your opinion. From those posting above that victims of ASR wrote, its very much like Straight. The feelings and experiences they shared were virtually identical to what I went through so many years ago. Which would make sense since they all use the same methodologies, techniques and approaches. When you keep using the same basic tenets, the superficial changes don't matter.
How many times you want to go round and round about this? I think ASR is fundamentally no different. You do. Isn't that about where we are? Or do you have to always get the 'last word' in?
:rofl:
Wait for it......wait for it.......
-
Disagreement is good, healthy, brings it out into the open...you have experience with straight and I have experience with ASR and wilderness. There must be a big difference or we wouldnt be arguing about it.
There will always be many different points of view on the same topic, its what makes all of this so interesting, dynamic and may serve as the instrument of change in these schools.
-
:rofl:
That didn't take long.
I just wanted to establish that the kids had access to phones, where able to call home and their calls were not monitored.
There seems to be a huge misconception here, I saw their setup and my daughter used it...its nothing like straight.... just wanted to clear that up.
You have zero experience with Straight. You have a cursory knowledge of ASR seeing as you were a parent and not an actual inmate. I have no experience with ASR other than what I've read from those that have been there. Everything I've read, even the posts by supporters of ASR tells me that there really are no meaningful differences. They are slight and of little value to the issues at hand. They are still about milieu control. They still use the therapeutic community approach developed by Synanon. You can spin it, clean it, twist it, sugar coat it or water it down all you want, but its still the same mindraping bullshit that I went through.
-
The reason why The Who always needs the last word is because the man is a child molester. Much like rapists those who molest like power. Perhaps anyone who even bothers to engage with this repulsive man should address him by the title friendly neighbourhood paedophile. This way any new posters have a good Idea of who they are dealing with when they read his posts.
-
The reason why The Who always needs the last word is because the man is a child molester. Much like rapists those who molest like power. Perhaps anyone who even bothers to engage with this repulsive man should address him by the title friendly neighbourhood paedophile. This way any new posters have a good Idea of who they are dealing with when they read his posts.
Nah, its one of two reasons or a combination of both.
1. He's got a financial investment in ASR. With all his interest in Aspen Ed and HLA, there's something there.
2. He's got to protect the cocoon of fantasy that he's built up about what he did to his own kid. That's a bitter pill to swallow.
-
Nah, its one of two reasons or a combination of both.
1. He's got a financial investment in ASR. With all his interest in Aspen Ed and HLA, there's something there.
2. He's got to protect the cocoon of fantasy that he's built up about what he did to his own kid. That's a bitter pill to swallow.
Well, you asked earlier about my daughter and I can tell you she is doing very well. She has grown into an intelligent young lady who speaks her mind and chooses her own direction in life.
If you look at our past posts it would seem your posts are the ones that are bitter not mine.
-
Nah, its one of two reasons or a combination of both.
1. He's got a financial investment in ASR. With all his interest in Aspen Ed and HLA, there's something there.
2. He's got to protect the cocoon of fantasy that he's built up about what he did to his own kid. That's a bitter pill to swallow.
Well, you asked earlier about my daughter and I can tell you she is doing very well. She has grown into an intelligent young lady who speaks her mind and chooses her own direction in life.
If you look at our past posts it would seem your posts are the ones that are bitter not mine.
I'm bitter about what happened to me and that it continues. You're not bitter, YET, because that would require you to realize what you've done. You don't. Yet.
I think one of the reasons I have a hard time dealing with you is that you and your mindset remind me much of my father. And that's not a compliment. Pretty much everyone agrees that Straight was horrible. Even you. But not Daddy. At least not until about 5 or 6 years ago. He lived for 15 years or more swearing that Straight was great and it 'saved my life'. He went around telling everyone he could about this great place for teens and how they could really get the help they needed because Straight was different. These kids need control. Their brains need a good washing.
Yeah, I"m paraphrasing but that's essentially what you say. Sounds astonishingly like my father and Straight. Now, try and tell me again how they're so, so different. :roll:
Therapy cannot be forced or coerced.
See ya in about 10 years or so.
-
Apparently you have not been reading... thats far from what I say, you are stretching for a comparison.
Therapy cannot be forced, I agree... I dont believe in brain washing...I dont believe TBS's are good for all kids...my daughter has been out for many years now and doing fine. I know parents who had kids graduate several years before her who are doing well.
Many kids from straight did not do well, the place closed and kids rally...none of this occurs around ASR and the likes because they are different.
Where you allowed to go into town and see a movie? Go canoeing? Use the phone unmonitored? Healthy food choices? watch TV? Did you get a good education? Feel good about yourself again? See a licensed therapist? Did the counselors treat you well? Where you able to swim or go cross country skiing? Did you make good friends there? did you learn healthy habits?............
-
Apparently you have not been reading... thats far from what I say, you are stretching for a comparison.
Not really.
Therapy cannot be forced, I agree... I dont believe in brain washing...
Forced OR coerced. ASR uses the same behavior modification techniques that Straight used. THAT is brainwashing.
I dont believe TBS's are good for all kids...my daughter has been out for many years now and doing fine. I know parents who had kids graduate several years before her who are doing well.
How has your relationship been since she's gotten out? For once in your time here, give me an honest answer.
Many kids from straight did not do well, the place closed and kids rally...none of this occurs around ASR and the likes because they are different.
It took a damn long time for people to hear us. Cops took us back if we ran. Judges ordered us to it. Hell, Nancy Reagan brought Princess Di to see all the good little Straightlings. That's why these places continue to exist.
Where you allowed to go into town and see a movie? Go canoeing? Use the phone unmonitored? Healthy food choices? watch TV?
Yep, after I 'earned' it and it could be taken away (and very often was) at the drop of a hat or whim of a staff member having a bad day or another inmate trying to score points or my parents getting nervous or if I fell asleep during school or if I spoke to a member of the opposite sex or if I called my cousin who hadn't been 'checked out' by Straight yet or if I took my eyes off my newcomer for a split second or if I didn't 'look right'.
Did you get a good education? Feel good about yourself again? See a licensed therapist? Did the counselors treat you well? Where you able to swim or go cross country skiing? Did you make good friends there? did you learn healthy habits?............
I'm not understanding your point here.
-
Forced OR coerced. ASR uses the same behavior modification techniques that Straight used. THAT is brainwashing.
No forced or coerced. She had a therapist that reported back to her therapist at home. It really worked out well
How has your relationship been since she's gotten out? For once in your time here, give me an honest answer.
I believe I have always been consistent with my answer. Our relationship has been very good, we communicate much better with each other, spend as much time with each other as we can, weekends mostly.
It took a damn long time for people to hear us. Cops took us back if we ran. Judges ordered us to it. Hell, Nancy Reagan brought Princess Di to see all the good little Straightlings. That's why these places continue to exist.
If you run at ASR, there are no fences and a counselor will walk along side you to keep you safe, no restraints or holding. If you run again you get kicked out just like any other school. I imagine the police would call the parents or bring them back to the school if they are underage, I don’t remember that occurring.
I'm not understanding your point here.
My point was that from what I read about others experiences, ASR was very different from those other schools, the kids are more engaged and had more freedoms, allowed to talk to each other, have fun, grow and thrive.
Many people here describe situations much different than that at the places they attended.
-
No forced or coerced. She had a therapist that reported back to her therapist at home. It really worked out well
So it was completely, 100% her idea and choice to go and stay there?
I believe I have always been consistent with my answer. Our relationship has been very good, we communicate much better with each other, spend as much time with each other as we can, weekends mostly.
That really tells me nothing.
My point was that from what I read about others experiences, ASR was very different from those other schools, the kids are more engaged and had more freedoms, allowed to talk to each other, have fun, grow and thrive.
Many people here describe situations much different than that at the places they attended.
Not really. Its just easier for you to believe that.
-
So it was completely, 100% her idea and choice to go and stay there?
It took her awhile to buy into it and get use to her new therapist. She didn’t want to be there at first but saw that it was working for her, she was taken off some of her meds, which she liked. Like I said she had an advocate on the outside (her therapist at home) who was kept in contact also.
She met new friends who she still stays in contact with etc.
That really tells me nothing.
Sorry, not sure what to say…we go to dinner, share laughs about the past and about what is going on in our lives..etc.
Not really. Its just easier for you to believe that.
No its not just what I believe…read some of the post here and tell me how many kids say they had fun or talk about movie night or trips into town..they don’t….thats what I mean by ASR was/is different. Of course there will be kids who didn’t do as well, hell we had kids in my highschool that wanted to burn it down with the teachers in it, so I understand that not every situation is healthy for everyone or works for everyone. That’s why they have individualized plans for each child.
-
(http://http://stagparty.us/stagparty.jpg)
-
It took her awhile to buy into it
THAT is coercion.
Sorry, not sure what to say…we go to dinner, share laughs about the past and about what is going on in our lives..etc.
Didn't you say there was a time period that she wouldn't speak to you after getting out? I can't swear to it, but I thought you posted about that.
No its not just what I believe…read some of the post here and tell me how many kids say they had fun or talk about movie night or trips into town..they don’t….thats what I mean by ASR was/is different.
Then YOU are the one who hasn't been reading. Its not really different at all. Especially given the fact that they use the therapeutic community approach that comes from Synanon.
Of course there will be kids who didn’t do as well, hell we had kids in my highschool that wanted to burn it down with the teachers in it, so I understand that not every situation is healthy for everyone or works for everyone. That’s why they have individualized plans for each child.
Well, they like to say that and some may actually believe that but its not really true. You think you have an understanding because you have a child who went through, but you don't. My parents have no clue what really went on behind closed doors. For years they deluded themselves into thinking that they did, that it was what they 'had to do', that it really did 'save my life'. They found out differently once they removed the 'rose colored glasses'.
::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
I've always wanted to turn it around and use one of their stupid cliches against them. (Not necessarily you Who. Programs in general)
-
:o
Oh come on now! No one wants to see that kind of shit. PM it to him.
Jeeeezus.
:roll: ::puke::
-
PM it to him.
thanks alot Anne !!
-
Anne Bonney wrote:
THAT is coercion.
Well, then everything fits that definition from putting your crayons away to going to school, to joining the field hockey team. If I waited for my kids to ask to go to school, none of them would ever get an education. You’re a parent, you know this, coercion is needed a nudge is needed…immersion into a new environment is needed sometimes especially when our children are in trouble and need help.
Didn't you say there was a time period that she wouldn't speak to you after getting out? I can't swear to it, but I thought you posted about that.
No, when she got back she went back to her old friends for a bit and drank and smoked pot but she tired of the partying after a couple of weeks. I have to admit, it put a scare into me, right after she got home. But she had this amazing ability to communicate which she learned and we would sit down every night and check in with each other which was something we never had before (at least not in her teen years). I gave her the space she needed and she tired of the intense life style and got back into her studies, I mean I am sure she still smokes pot once in awhile but she is focused on herself and things she wants which is a big change from pre ASR. We communicated this back to ASR and they have developed a better program for when the children are transitioning back home.
Then YOU are the one who hasn't been reading. Its not really different at all. Especially given the fact that they use the therapeutic community approach that comes from Synanon.
You can trace any one thing or event back to many beginnings and origins, find similarities etc. , but ASR has a more clinical evidence based approach now reading what many kids here on fornits experienced vs. what ASR offers is like night and day.
Well, they like to say that and some may actually believe that but its not really true. You think you have an understanding because you have a child who went through, but you don't. My parents have no clue what really went on behind closed doors. For years they deluded themselves into thinking that they did, that it was what they 'had to do', that it really did 'save my life'. They found out differently once they removed the 'rose colored glasses'.
You are trying to take your experience and place it on everyone else. Not everyone is like your dad or yourself. Some people do have an understanding and communicate well. No, I haven’t been thru what you have been thru and I don’t pretend to, but you haven’t been thru what my daughter and I have been thru, nor communicate on the same level. I don’t just think or believe…I know what happened at ASR and a lot of the stories here on fornits about ASR or true to a certain extent, although a bit embellished, there are similarities to what she experienced, but she grew from them where others did not. I never said these school are for everyone and agree that there should be a better screening process to ensure a higher percentage of children benefit from going there.
-
Well, then everything fits that definition from putting your crayons away to going to school, to joining the field hockey team. If I waited for my kids to ask to go to school, none of them would ever get an education. You’re a parent, you know this, coercion is needed a nudge is needed…immersion into a new environment is needed sometimes especially when our children are in trouble and need help.
No. Forced participation in something that screws around with the mind and the psyche and the soul is very different from extra curricular activities in a normal school setting. Don't EVEN compare the two.
Didn't you say there was a time period that she wouldn't speak to you after getting out? I can't swear to it, but I thought you posted about that.
No, when she got back she went back to her old friends for a bit and drank and smoked pot but she tired of the partying after a couple of weeks. I have to admit, it put a scare into me, right after she got home. But she had this amazing ability to communicate which she learned and we would sit down every night and check in with each other which was something we never had before (at least not in her teen years). I gave her the space she needed and she tired of the intense life style and got back into her studies, I mean I am sure she still smokes pot once in awhile but she is focused on herself and things she wants which is a big change from pre ASR. We communicated this back to ASR and they have developed a better program for when the children are transitioning back home.
Too bad you couldn't have done that before you shipped her off to strangers to fix.
You can trace any one thing or event back to many beginnings and origins, find similarities etc. , but ASR has a more clinical evidence based approach now reading what many kids here on fornits experienced vs. what ASR offers is like night and day.
AGAIN. When the FUNDAMENTALS, the BASICS of the program are its fucked from the start. There is no fixing it, tweeking it, changing it, remodeling it. Its fucked at its core.
You are trying to take your experience and place it on everyone else. Not everyone is like your dad or yourself. Some people do have an understanding and communicate well. No, I haven’t been thru what you have been thru and I don’t pretend to, but you haven’t been thru what my daughter and I have been thru, nor communicate on the same level. I don’t just think or believe…I know what happened at ASR and a lot of the stories here on fornits about ASR or true to a certain extent, although a bit embellished, there are similarities to what she experienced, but she grew from them where others did not. I never said these school are for everyone and agree that there should be a better screening process to ensure a higher percentage of children benefit from going there.
You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.
-
No. Forced participation in something that screws around with the mind and the psyche and the soul is very different from extra curricular activities in a normal school setting. Don't EVEN compare the two.
Its called "Least restrictive environment", she benefited and no one was screwing around with her psyche without her consent.
Too bad you couldn't have done that before you shipped her off to strangers to fix.
Yes it is, wish we could have. We would have saved a year and a half of being away from each other.
AGAIN. When the FUNDAMENTALS, the BASICS of the program are the same and directly derived from and traced to Straight/Synanon etc. its fucked from the start. There is no fixing it, tweeking it, changing it, remodeling it. Its fucked at its core.
Seems like no one is going to change your mind on that one. ASR isn’t derived from that, this is where you get hung up and try to tie everything back to straight. They are done and buried, there are no marches against ASR or riots…it’s a boarding school that helps teens who are struggling, the kids who graduate go on with their lives, a few look back and see it as a bump in the road, a time where they needed a little help to get back on track. No voodoo or brain washing, straight jackets or restraints…it doesn’t happen there…it is a therapeutic environment.
You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.
Exactly my point, you have never been to ASR. The doors are open, a parent can take a ride over and talk to the kids or staff, walk around campus (unescorted sometimes) , you have never been. Dont judge.
-
[
last word.[/color]
-
last word.[/color]
LOL... someone has a case of "last word syndrome" and it ain't you. WHO oh WHO cold it be?
-
So who. Do you think that if your daughter was not born into the family of a convicted sex offender she would have been in a better position and not needed the services of ASR?
When you committed your crime did you view it as no worse than having a child put their crayons away?
Do you loose any sleep over what you did? or have you just casually moved on with your life?
Are you aware that if you are trying to drum up business for this fucking evil school you are doing them no favors as even the worlds worst parent does not listen to a pervert.
When you got angry in the post you subsequently deleted you claimed you had paid your debt to society. Were you the belle of the ball in jail or did you just avoid bending over for the soap.
Fuck off to the nambla site you sick small pathetic little man. If there is a god you will die alone isolated from the world, sick with guilt for the filthy perverse wrongs you have committed against society. You will have some inkling of what it is like to feel wretched with lonelyness, fear, guilt and grief.
Nobody can respect a single word you say because you have committed a grave moral wrong that can not be amended. Just please do the only honorable thing you can and stop riling these people and crawl under a rock. They have been through enough. it is time for this shit to stop
-
No. Forced participation in something that screws around with the mind and the psyche and the soul is very different from extra curricular activities in a normal school setting. Don't EVEN compare the two.
Its called "Least restrictive environment", she benefited and no one was screwing around with her psyche without her consent.
Too bad you couldn't have done that before you shipped her off to strangers to fix.
Yes it is, wish we could have. We would have saved a year and a half of being away from each other.
AGAIN. When the FUNDAMENTALS, the BASICS of the program are the same and directly derived from and traced to Straight/Synanon etc. its fucked from the start. There is no fixing it, tweeking it, changing it, remodeling it. Its fucked at its core.
Seems like no one is going to change your mind on that one. ASR isn’t derived from that, this is where you get hung up and try to tie everything back to straight. They are done and buried, there are no marches against ASR or riots…it’s a boarding school that helps teens who are struggling, the kids who graduate go on with their lives, a few look back and see it as a bump in the road, a time where they needed a little help to get back on track. No voodoo or brain washing, straight jackets or restraints…it doesn’t happen there…it is a therapeutic environment.
You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.
Exactly my point, you have never been to ASR. The doors are open, a parent can take a ride over and talk to the kids or staff, walk around campus (unescorted sometimes) , you have never been. Dont judge.
But you do admit it was a "RESTRICTIVE" enviornment for your daughter.
-
But you do admit it was a "RESTRICTIVE" enviornment for your daughter.
Yes, it was, restrictive and very structured. It is very difficult to have one without the other.
Any activities involving young people are typically very structured and restrictive in order to be successful....summer camps.....school system......almost all sports activities.....boarding schools.
-
Anti-Derailment Post:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)
There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)
Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
1) What is self-study?
2) Describe this Escorting more please?
3) Why was a student doing the escorting of a self-harming/suicidal resident and not a staff member?
A self study was the worst of the three major consequences. (reflection, challenge, self study). You had work projects, all free time was spent at your table, facing the wall. Lots of writing assignments. Loss of all privileges. Standing during all meetings. You most likely had strict bans
Basically I had to take her back to the dorm and be with her while she gathered up her things and changed, etc. I don't remember if she showered or not. I was basically there to make sure she didn't attempt again.
I don't know why they had me do it. I was "trusted" at that point, and honestly... probably a better choice than some of the staff.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=15 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=15)
yes, they did. to a large degree. Dean Kent (the staff mentioned in the article) was gone by the time i had arrived. (he was there in 1997, and i got to ASR in Cummington, MA on January 5th of 1998) i had heard from other students about Dean, that he was a really nice guy but fired b/c he'd called DSS on them. Brett Carey was still the Dean of Student Life when i arrived, and his wife Lisa also helped in the fitness department & was pregnant when i first arrived. They had 2 other daughters, Madison & Carly. The whole thought was a bit frightening, because when we had the 2 hour group "therapy" sessions 2 times a week, they were harsh and abusive to say the least. All of us students would be split into 2 groups, and we'd be rounded up in a circle to get screamed at, belittled and dehumanized. They called it "confrontational", although it was more like verbal abuse and intentional slaughtering.
i was very afraid while i was there, as a student with an extensive sexual abuse history involving rape & incest, i was constantly the target of this slaughtering, esp. b/c i was overweight at the time. needless to say, i left ASR with anorexia some 19 months later.
Brett & other students were all allowed to scream vulgarities at you, called you a "fat bitch, slut," and all. at the age of 15 i learned the word "dildo" while playing scrabble with Brett. One of my roomates claimed that Brett had forced her into sexual operations.
Most of all, it was excusable for students to haze each other.
It was almost looked at as funny. One Staff named Kristen Merhoff gave me funny looks and made sarcastic and patronizing comments when i'd opened up to her about my eating disorder.
Later on, a staff named Amy Robichaud would scream at me for ruining my life, pushing everyone away, talking about how i was a disasterous person, unworthy of being loved. To say the least, she was an abusive person, much alike a person in the throws of an addiction like alchoholism & drug addictions, both of which she admittedly had. There was a great deal of favoritism there, even staff who seemed to want to gain the approval of certain students.
The labor & sleep deprivation that was mentioned in the article is most likely in reference to the "Lifesteps". These were so called "workshops" it was mandatory for all students to attend. Staff and students would be expected to open up there deepest and most unknown
secrets for the sake of "growing". It's true, there was little sleeping allowed & often i myself left feeling shamed & ridiculed.
i was one of the main targets in that school the entire time i was there, a target of hazing & was even blamed for a student breaking into the med office and comsuming large quantities of my prescriptions. For the first 5 months i was there, you could litterally leave, go smoke 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, drop a couple tabs of acid, take like 5 hits off a joint come back & they wouldn't even realize it.
ASR is, to say the least, a very very fucked up place. i have several more things to say, but this whole thing would take eons.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=30 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=30)
I am a former student at ASR. I was in the first peer group, 97-98. My experience there haunts me to this day. I have read many articles that refer to the "old staff" and "new staff". I cannot speak for the way ASR is run now, being 2004, but I can speak for how it was run in 97 and 98. Let me start by saying that I am not an angry, defiant kid who is trying to start trouble for ASR. I have graduated high school and am about to graduate college and enter law school. I don't get into trouble, I am a productive member of society, and want people to know the truth. We were badgered, belittled, sworn at, made to stay up all night during "life steps" and given only small rations of food, had all calls to our parents monitored by staff and had the phone hung up on us if we tried to complain to our parents about these things, scrutinized and humiliated on a daily basis. Our mail was read, staff lost their voices by yelling so loudly at us, I personally was called a "slut", a rich little Daddysgirl, a doormat, told my dad tried to buy my love with money, made to discuss personal sexual and private experiences in group sessions with other peers, made to write a ten page paper by hand about what my "issues" were, and if the staff didn't like it, I started over ( this was because I was too close to my friend there, and they put us on bans so we couldn't talk to each other). People, whomever wants to hear specific stories about all of these things, I would be more than happy to share with you!!! email me at [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) i bet i can help you get her out of there
I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=60)
I am a an ASR graduate. I graduated in October of 03. At the end of the program I believed that ASR had done a lot for me. Looking back I am shocked that I ever thought that. I was made to turn against my friends and turn them in for the slightest rule breaking (for example listening to music). In group we were often degraded and yelled at, supposedly to make us better. Several times I was suicidal and instead of worrying they told me I was lying and being manipulative. In one group eveyone was allowed to go around and say their judgements against everyone else things like "youre a fat slut". That group was horrible. You were scared into being good and behaving. I'm not sure why I thought this place was so great, I feel as if I was brainwashed in a way.
The wilderness experience was horrible. I spent over 40 days in the outdoors being punished for any little thing we did wrong. My first day I had to run 20 minutes and when I stopped the counselers screamed at me and when i vomited they didnt care. just told me i shouldt have drank so muich water.
-
But you do admit it was a "RESTRICTIVE" enviornment for your daughter.
Yes, it was, restrictive and very structured. It is very difficult to have one without the other.
Any activities involving young people are typically very structured and restrictive in order to be successful....summer camps.....school system......almost all sports activities.....boarding schools.
But these schools are known to not allow kids to be kids. They restrict their growth and restrict them from talking to each other, force them to sleep outside if they are bad, refuse to feed them. I have seen it written here.
It goes beyond just phones calls.
-
But you do admit it was a "RESTRICTIVE" enviornment for your daughter.
Yes, it was, restrictive and very structured. It is very difficult to have one without the other.
Any activities involving young people are typically very structured and restrictive in order to be successful....summer camps.....school system......almost all sports activities.....boarding schools.
But these schools are known to not allow kids to be kids. They restrict their growth and restrict them from talking to each other, force them to sleep outside if they are bad, refuse to feed them. I have seen it written here.
It goes beyond just phones calls.
You cant believe everything you read here. ASR doesn’t withhold food or force the kids to sleep outside for punishment..... I am sure some of the stories you read here are true and some are not, but how are we to know which ones to believe.
The same kids that claim to have been abused at these schools and calling foul are also saying that I am a serial killer, rapist even child molester Ha,Ha,Ha,. I think they mean well (in their own way) but their stories are just that (Stories) in many cases and need to be taken with a grain of salt, they are a little frustrated that I don’t agree with their point of view.
As I suggest to many parents is to not take my word or those here on fornits as gospel. Call the schools and ask them if you could speak with parents who had kids go thru the program or take a ride over and walk thru the campus, talk to a few of the kids at random, that is what I did, and you will get a better feel if it is a good fit for your son or daughter.
-
You cant believe everything I say. ASR does withhold food and force the kids to sleep outside for punishment..... although I'd love to pretend otherwise by making snide remarks about how most of the posters here are liars, it's obviously not working and, frankly, if even a third of this shit is true this hellhole is a place to avoid.
The same kids that have been abused at these schools and calling foul are also correct in saying that I am a serial killer, rapist even child molester Ha,Ha,Ha, *wank wank wank*. God I love torturing kids. I think they mean well (in their own way) but their stories are quite true in pretty much cases and need to be taken as fact, they are a little frustrated that I intend to derail Fornits as much as possible.
As I suggest to many parents is to take my word as gospel. Instead of finding unbiased information, call the shitpits and ask them if you could speak with parents who had kids go thru the program (of course they won't give you the phone numbers of the ones who wised up and pulled their kids!) or take a ride over and take an EXTREMELY guided tour, talk to a few of the kids at random (no, not the kids they hid away for the visit, don't try to find THEM!), that is what I did, and you just might end up like me. And isn't that what you want in life as a parent? To end up having to defend an incredibly poor decision for three thousand posts against an unyielding Fornits while your daughter remains estranged?
-
The who himself admitted to being a child molester after somebody posted his listing on the sexual offenders registry. His exact words were "i have paid my debt to society" He then deleted it. I am hoping somebody will repost this.
Dont debate this piece of shit. Dont even acknowledge his existence. He is nothing. He has no merit or right to be heard.
-
The thread where this was posted got painseries'd and square wave'd, so repost.
You can expend a great deal of energy bickering about whether physical conditions can be deemed abusive or not. The physical conditions are, when all is said and done, merely symptoms and crude barometers of where the true, diabolical abuse often lies: deep in the psyche of the kids that go to these places.
I can think of camping experiences I've had where the physical conditions might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem "abusive," but I did not consider them abusive. Why? I wasn't being brainwashed. It was summer camp, not reprogramming.
On the other hand, there are places like ASR where some of the kids experience conditions that can be deemed physically abusive, but some do not. Depends on the kid and the particular dynamic with personnel that are there at that given point in time, etc. etc. Something might be said about what kind of number gets done on a kid's head seeing that shit go on around you, whether you, yourself, have to jump through those hoops or not. 'Cuz real point of places like ASR is reprogramming, and the way that it gets done is psychologically abusive, whether you can put your finger on specific "evidence" or not. Much of the damage done does not surface right away, might even take years to surface for some kids.
There is also something else I should say about places like this. There is such a power trip mentality going on amongst many of the staff (they get psyched into this by the program), and such a degradation of respect for other people's autonomy (inherent to the reprogramming), that these conditions often end up translating into sexual abuse of the minors who get sent here to get "fixed" and "straightened out." Again, it can take years before those truths see the light of day.[/size] Those kids are informed that they are "special," that other people "wouldn't understand," blah blah blah... Just a heads up for you, for what it's worth...
::bump::
-
quote="Ursus"
You can expend a great deal of energy bickering about whether physical conditions can be deemed abusive or not. The physical conditions are, when all is said and done, merely symptoms and crude barometers of where the true, diabolical abuse often lies: deep in the psyche of the kids that go to these places.
I can think of camping experiences I've had where the physical conditions might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem "abusive," but I did not consider them abusive. Why? I wasn't being brainwashed. It was summer camp, not reprogramming.
On the other hand, there are places like ASR where some of the kids experience conditions that can be deemed physically abusive, but some do not. Depends on the kid and the particular dynamic with personnel that are there at that given point in time, etc. etc. Something might be said about what kind of number gets done on a kid's head seeing that shit go on around you, whether you, yourself, have to jump through those hoops or not. 'Cuz real point of places like ASR is reprogramming, and the way that it gets done is psychologically abusive, whether you can put your finger on specific "evidence" or not. Much of the damage done does not surface right away, might even take years to surface for some kids.
There is also something else I should say about places like this. There is such a power trip mentality going on amongst many of the staff (they get psyched into this by the program), and such a degradation of respect for other people's autonomy (inherent to the reprogramming), that these conditions often end up translating into sexual abuse of the minors who get sent here to get "fixed" and "straightened out." Again, it can take years before those truths see the light of day. Those kids are informed that they are "special," that other people "wouldn't understand," blah blah blah... Just a heads up for you, for what it's worth...
-
You can expend a great deal of energy bickering about whether physical conditions can be deemed abusive or not. The physical conditions are, when all is said and done, merely symptoms and crude barometers of where the true, diabolical abuse often lies: deep in the psyche of the kids that go to these places.
I can think of camping experiences I've had where the physical conditions might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem "abusive," but I did not consider them abusive. Why? I wasn't being brainwashed. It was summer camp, not reprogramming.
On the other hand, there are places like ASR where some of the kids experience conditions that can be deemed physically abusive, but some do not. Depends on the kid and the particular dynamic with personnel that are there at that given point in time, etc. etc. Something might be said about what kind of number gets done on a kid's head seeing that shit go on around you, whether you, yourself, have to jump through those hoops or not. 'Cuz real point of places like ASR is reprogramming, and the way that it gets done is psychologically abusive, whether you can put your finger on specific "evidence" or not. Much of the damage done does not surface right away, might even take years to surface for some kids.
There is also something else I should say about places like this. There is such a power trip mentality going on amongst many of the staff (they get psyched into this by the program), and such a degradation of respect for other people's autonomy (inherent to the reprogramming), that these conditions often end up translating into sexual abuse of the minors who get sent here to get "fixed" and "straightened out." Again, it can take years before those truths see the light of day. Those kids are informed that they are "special," that other people "wouldn't understand," blah blah blah... Just a heads up for you, for what it's worth...
-
You can expend a great deal of energy bickering about whether physical conditions can be deemed abusive or not. The physical conditions are, when all is said and done, merely symptoms and crude barometers of where the true, diabolical abuse often lies: deep in the psyche of the kids that go to these places.
I can think of camping experiences I've had where the physical conditions might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem "abusive," but I did not consider them abusive. Why? I wasn't being brainwashed. It was summer camp, not reprogramming.
On the other hand, there are places like ASR where some of the kids experience conditions that can be deemed physically abusive, but some do not. Depends on the kid and the particular dynamic with personnel that are there at that given point in time, etc. etc. Something might be said about what kind of number gets done on a kid's head seeing that shit go on around you, whether you, yourself, have to jump through those hoops or not. 'Cuz real point of places like ASR is reprogramming, and the way that it gets done is psychologically abusive, whether you can put your finger on specific "evidence" or not. Much of the damage done does not surface right away, might even take years to surface for some kids.
There is also something else I should say about places like this. There is such a power trip mentality going on amongst many of the staff (they get psyched into this by the program), and such a degradation of respect for other people's autonomy (inherent to the reprogramming), that these conditions often end up translating into sexual abuse of the minors who get sent here to get "fixed" and "straightened out." Again, it can take years before those truths see the light of day. Those kids are informed that they are "special," that other people "wouldn't understand," blah blah blah... Just a heads up for you, for what it's worth...
And again :bump:
-
Nice sharing.
I can think of camping experiences I have had where the physical conditions
might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem abusive
but I did not consider them abusive........