Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 19, 2007, 02:48:16 PM
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Every time I post about how we managed to sneak some weed or alcohol on campus to make the passage of time somewhat more bearable, I get responses from 5 or 6 (almost always the same people...Shan always leads the charge) people telling me how that's just "unfathomable" and that I either must be making it up or cedu became easier than piss and I have nothing to complain about in the first place. So what, you're saying you had eyes on you 24-7? You're saying the school never hired contractors to come in and do construction or utility work on campus?
You make it sound like I was walking out of a rap, grabbing some cash out of the atm behind the dorm, and making a quick trip into town to pick up an ounce or a few bottles of bacardi. Really, there were only a few people ballsy enough to bring contraband like that to campus (in our case we never actually brought it to campus, we traded shit with the 24 year old contractor kid from Bonners Ferry who would bring it for us), and you had to have been there for quite some time to learn the system.
While I'm sure the place got easier, I don't think that has much to do with it (because it was fucking miserable when I was there and for 9 months I sat around convinced I'd smoked my last blunt for at least 2 years). Maybe that and the fact that the Running Springs campus was more remote than the Idaho campuses.
But no more telling me it's so outrageous that we managed to get drunk and high in the middle of the night. Because I strongly feel you could have done it too if you had tried hard enough.
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Maybe that and the fact that the Running Springs campus was more remote than the Idaho campuses.
I haven't been to the Running Springs campus, but I assure you, the Idaho campus was quite remote. It was *very* difficult to run away, and mad props to the people who did. Both campuses, of course, were remote by design.
I don't recall Shan ever saying that it couldn't have happened, or that you were making it up. I have been in those threads, too, and if memory serves, she talked about how it never would have happened during our era. But I could be remembering it wrong, or was simply not in the threads you are referring to.
You are right, regardless of when we were there, we all suffered, and this is not a contest to see who was more oppressed than anyone else. (and I also think it would be pointless to argue the fact, and almost impossible to determine, since it is based on personal experience, and not data that can be objectively analyzed.) However, I think that it is VERY important to discuss the differences, because it exposes the evolution of the entity that is CEDU. IMO, there were some things about the newer incarnations of CEDU that were far more scary (to me) than what we went through. i.e. the punitive system. I read the transcripts from the lawsuits that were filed against the schools, such as being forced to be out in the cold as punishment, cutting the lawn with scissors, and being buried alive. We also never had that awful variation of a full-time where we had to stay out in a tent, and we never had people on bans from each other for almost the entire time we stayed there.
Most of all, we didn't have Dr. Ulrich dosing us up all the time.
Here is my theory:
When an ideology loses it's efficacy, exposes it's hypocricy, and shows cracks in its armor, something else has to replace it. In this case, it was a less subtle, and harsher punitive system. Before I even found out about the schools closing, I always had a theory that the basic ideological underpinnings of CEDU were far too contradictory, oppressive, and coercive to be effective indefinitely. They would eventually collapse upon itself, and people would see it for what it really was: bullshit. This happens in a lot of cults. People lose faith in the leader, want to leave, and so forth. At this point does the cult become less subtle and more bizarre. The timeline of a cult is almost always like this, as you can see. Jonestown started off as seeming like a really good idea, despite the fact that behind closed doors, things were bizarre and damaging to the psyche. However, as things went on, the craziness became more obvious to outsiders, until everyone was forced to commit suicide. Synanon is another example of this evolution of cult ideology, as are the Branch Dividians, and Heaven's Gate. (I'm eagerly anticipating the fall of Scientology.)
CEDU's ideological efficacy actually lasted an unusually long amount of time, since it started in 67. My theory on this is because it was forced upon teens, who have not completely evolved in their identities, and have not left their formative years behind them. The younger the student, the more damaging this is. I know that at 16, I had some solid footing to go off of (despite the fact that I was completely indoctrinated.) My initial recovery time after I graduated was short, compared to people who were sent there when they were 14. Despite the fact that the dogma was less (but still significantly) influential in later years, I think it might have been easier to shed that part of the trauma, but certainly not regarding casting off of what everyone suffered as a result of the punitive system.
Here is what was different when we were there:
It was no tolerance. (It always has been, but it was more influential when we were there, simply because of the evolutionary stage the dogma was in.) It was unheard of to do what you guys did, because we drank more kool aid. We ratted on each other, we ratted on ourselves, we looked upon people who resisted with disdain, we took care of our feelings on a regular basis, out of total fear that we would be "living our death" if we did not. I know that you guys went through this too, but by then, CEDU-think was showing its age. You resisted, and your punishments became more severe as a result. All in all, everything was a regular suckfest for any CEDU survivor.
Interestingly enough, I've noticed that there seem to be a lot more people who still believe in CEDU-think from my era, than yours. Similar to how a good portion of people who survived a full blown cult will still believe some of it for the rest of their lives. Look at the Seed, for instance. Ginger's family is practically torn in half over this. Look at Synanon. Have you heard from any members? Because I've only heard testimony from two. Nobody knows where they are, and whatshisname's synanon forum (the only one in existence, with the exception of this one, which rarely gets updated) is closed to outsiders. In some ways, when we were there, CEDU was more formally a cult, whereas when you were there, CEDU was a wilderness gulag. One is not more horrid than the other. I think that another one of the other major differences is that your generation was more aware how horrible the place was, whereas a good portion of the students from my era thought it was the cat's pajamas (at least to some extent) while we were incarcerated. Parents were always really impressed on campus tours regarding how all of the students seemed so happy and and looked them in the eye when addressing them. It was just fucking weird.
I think also, that there is a relation between when Mel was there, and when Brown owned the schools. Mel was a cult guru, a real Diederich part deux. All of the staff talked about what a visionary he was, despite the fact that he was such a blatant asshole it wasn't even funny. Brown was a company, just like WWASPS. It had a million facilities to manage. As a result, it took Mel's "vision" and templated it. It's like the difference between cooking a meal for two and making cafeteria food with the same recipes. It just won't be the same. Also, Mel had far less facilities to manage: CEDU, RMA, and Hilltop. That was it. Brown had to operate more like WWASPS. It was unable to micromanage to the extent that Mel did. Brown never had staff workshops to keep the staff in line, reinforce the doctrine and show them how he wanted them to work the program. Brown just didn't have the time to do this. As a result, the staff took more liberties in their interpretation. Most of them just as awful.
Having said this, I think that if Mel had stayed on, the same thing would have happened... eventually. Or... he would have championed all of us killing ourselves because of the threat of outside pressure and the threat of closing down the schools.
I guess the only way I can draw the difference is that in our era, our punitive system was more cerebral, while yours was more worldly and visible. Something had to fill the void that the power of CEDU-think had left behind. Neither were pleasant, and both were a total and complete surreal nightmare.
I always said that if anyone should make a film about the CEDU schools, regardless of era, it should be David Lynch. I should give him a ring.
I am glad you posted this topic, because I find evolution of these places fascinating, and discussion on it is important, (provided that people don't fall into a pissing contest about who got cornholed more severely) because we gain a certain level of perspective and insight. Contextualization of CEDU is important, because of what role it played/plays in society, its influence on other institutions/clones and the belief systems on child-rearing and drug rehabilitation our culture has gleaned as a result of its existence. This is especially important because of its one-degree-of-separation connection with synanon.
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I see what you're saying, and though I obviously have no firsthand experience of the older CEDU era, I have to guess you're spot on. Also, thanks for taking the time in that post, I wanted to get a sense of that evolution and I'm glad you addressed it. Clearly there is no point comparing the extent of ones' misery, as I think CEDU crossed everyone's threshold of tolerance and never looked back...
People in my era were drinking the "kool-aid" like water, I learned that lesson the hard way quite a few times before I wised up and stopped telling even some of my closer friends the kind of shit I was up to...
Is it a coincidence that I don't trust a fucking soul these days?
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I see what you're saying, and though I obviously have no firsthand experience of the older CEDU era, I have to guess you're spot on. Also, thanks for taking the time in that post, I wanted to get a sense of that evolution and I'm glad you addressed it. Clearly there is no point comparing the extent of ones' misery, as I think CEDU crossed everyone's threshold of tolerance and never looked back...
People in my era were drinking the "kool-aid" like water, I learned that lesson the hard way quite a few times before I wised up and stopped telling even some of my closer friends the kind of shit I was up to...
Is it a coincidence that I don't trust a fucking soul these days?
In this humble CEDOG's opinion, trust should *never* be given easily. If there was one thing CEDU taught me in spades, it was that.
I think that in time, you will find people you can trust. Has it occurred to you that maybe the people in your life now are not worthy of such trust? (This isn't a slam against the company you choose to keep, rather that it is difficult to bring people into your life who deserve your trust.) You are simply protecting yourself, and it is ridiculous to be an open sore to everyone around you, like CEDU expected us to be. Boundaries are essential. CEDU broke down those boundaries and demonized them.
Seek out those who you may one day consider chosen family. It doesn't come easily, and it is foolish to have unreasonable expectations of others, because you will almost always be disappointed.
Ginger said something very interesting to me once. Take about 90% of what you think you know about a person and throw it out the window. Everyone has a dark side. The trick is to find others whose dark sides are compatible with yours. Find people who you can be with during yours' and theirs' worst times. If you can love a person during their ugliest moments, and they feel the same way about you, that is a friend. It doesn't come easily, and has to be built most of the time, unless you run into one of those individuals you immediately hit it off with and connect with, and feel like you have known forever. (most likely because you have) Those people are truly rare, and I can count the ones I know on one hand, but they are the best people in the world, and I am truly grateful that they are in my life.
All of this is no easy task, however. You *do* have connections to others. You simply may not have found them yet. When you do, they can still disappoint, because, like yourself, they are human. The true friends are the ones who disappoint without meaning to hurt you directly, and feel sincerely horrible when they have. (When I mean disappoint, I mean that differently than a betrayal of trust, which is more often than not, an indication to me that I should write them off, simply to protect myself, and also because I know that I really don't deserve that kind of shitty treatment.)
The Brothers Keeper totally fucked with our idea of what friendship and connections are about. As a result, a lot of us may have attachment issues (points to self), others get to the point of having personality disorders and view people like objects (sociopath), in black and white, good or evil terms (borderine), or mirrors (narcissism). Others isolate and trust no-one. A great many of us share a combination of these dysfunctions. (points to self again) The other thing that was fucked up was their bastardization of the term "no man is an island". In CEDU-think, that means that you should feel ashamed if you are alone. In reality, IMO, it means that everyone has a connection with at least one other person, even if they have not encountered them yet. The other one was the concept of "truth and trust". Truth to CEDU was hostility and brutality. Trust was to be given and expected without question, and meant that you should allow those who are giving you the "truth" to treat you poorly. In reality, truth is about sincerity and care for someone you love. It is about consideration of their feelings. It is about empathy. It is about showing concern if they are going through a difficult time. Trust is the end result of that. It is what is built off of that.
Honesty is nothing without empathy. It is just vindictiveness. I still fall into the trap sometimes where I realize that I have put my "rap hat" on when I am speaking to someone in the guise of giving them advice. I have to stop myself and say "What is my motivation for saying this to this person? Do I honestly care about their well being? Or am I just enjoying being an asshole because this person's behavior is annoying me?" I did that a lot with my last boyfriend. Granted, he is a bit of a dim bulb, but my frustration with him manifested itself in the form of me giving him lectures about what the fuck was wrong with him. When I finally broke up with him, I said, "I can't be with you anymore because I treat you like shit." (what I didn't say was that he drove me nuts and the thought of him touching me made me cringe.) Had I been wearing my rap hat, I would have said all of that, but instead, I only told him what I knew to be important to him, (and it *was* truthful, I did feel bad about treating him poorly.) All of the rest of that stuff he didn't need to know, would only hurt him and most likely make him feel terrible about himself for at least a little while, and it was none of his fucking business anyway.
I have very few friends, because I choose them with care. The ones I do have, however, are priceless, and I consider them family. I have also been disappointed by people who I at first felt an intense connection with, (which is rare) because they were either not ready to reciprocate, or they had other things going on in their lives which excluded a friendship with me. I know that my true friends are people I keep in touch with long after we are not in close physical proximity with each other. Other people who were friends, I have totally lost touch with, because the emotional connection was not as strong.
One thing I do not relate to with other CEDU survivors is their connection with people they were friends with at the school. I have heard many state that they formed some of the best friendships of their lives there, despite how fucked up the place was. I am unable to do that, (although now that I have some perspective, it would be nice to get in touch with some of them and compare notes, but I doubt I could ever form a strong bond with them, even if we were close while we were at CEDU.) I do feel some affinity, like war buddies, because we went through the same thing. But at the same time, we also betrayed each other under the influence of the program. I can forgive that, but I can't form a connection simply because of our shared experience, and especially because of the negative association regarding our relationship there. If I were to look in a past friend's face from that time, all I would be able to see is CEDU, even though both of us have evolved (Some more than others.) and hopefully, transcended our hardships.
I know that the friendships I have formed as an adult are real, and far more significant than anything I had with people at CEDU. IMO, the connections with CEDU peers were under false pretenses, and in some cases, blatant lies. The one person I keep in contact from CEDU, who was there when I was, is someone I barely remember, because he was a year behind me, which is probably why we get along so well. Even so, it took me a LONG time to come around, give him my real name, and actually speak with him over the phone.
Trust is a valuable gift. Give it wisely and with the utmost care, and if anyone who has earned your trust takes it for granted, get rid of them, because they don't deserve to have you in their life.
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Well, I'm guessing guest is D7... Castle did such a fine job explaining things, there is nothing much to be said. I went to RS before Brown brought out the school. It was run by Truly Crazy Cultists who thought of Mel Wasserman as the supreme God and were all too happy to disseminate his teachings. The amount of fear and control during this time was tangible. We could not work, leave campus, or socialize with outsiders. There simply were no "helpful contractors" available to ease or misery. There were no off campus jobs... and, it was pretty remote. If you did sneak out, you'd have to get past your dorm head and other Kool Ad Swilling room mates.
The level of fear and snitchery, along with the "Big Brother Watching You" culture was so dense, there was no cutting it. You really couldn't trust anyone.
One of my friends had an underground when he became an upper student, but this was a 4-5 years later, and he has more cojones than 99.9% of the population. Plus, unlike most us, where truth and reality became murky, I think he was aware that this whole thing was a con from the get go, and was all too happy to give quid pro quo. In any case, his was an atypically resourceful mind.
In any event, I guess I did judge your experience as "CEDU lite." But the truth was, I didn't miss pot and/or Bacardi... I just missed being able to say what I want, feel how I feel, think what I think, without obtrusive/abusive ideology. And of course, I missed being free to flirt and kiss and cavort like a normal teenager, without fear of being treating like a sexual deviant.... especially since male staff members could talk about my pants giving everyone a boner any time they wished.
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In any event, I guess I did judge your experience as "CEDU lite." But the truth was, I didn't miss pot and/or Bacardi... I just missed being able to say what I want, feel how I feel, think what I think, without obtrusive/abusive ideology. And of course, I missed being free to flirt and kiss and cavort like a normal teenager, without fear of being treating like a sexual deviant.... especially since male staff members could talk about my pants giving everyone a boner any time they wished.
I was hoping someone would guess it was me. Yes, I am D7, just thought I'd be a little more anon when starting a thread about getting high...for google purposes, not because I care what you clowns think of me ;)
I see more of what you are saying now. I guess that somehow, after about a year of being confined there with a handful of likeminded individuals, we figured out how the 3 or 4 of us could band together and rise above...it never worked flawlessly, and true to what Castle said, these "incredible friendships" essentially dissolved within a couple years of being free...I don't speak with any of them anymore. But while we were there, they were my life.
But I can see that, in a more rigid environment where people were so deprived of the basic joys in life - freedom of expression, freedom from the abrasive shit they were shoving down our throats, harmless flirting - other luxuries would be far from mind. Had we all been striving to achieve that all the time and feeling so frustrated at our failure, I doubt we would've had the desire nor the means to build up our own little underground ring. I feel like the system became a little easier to manipulate, a little easier to buck and play, in our era, and I'm starting to see that this has less and less to do with the way the staff were running it (though that is an important factor), but more to do with the way the students responded to it by creating that dense, unbreakable big brother culture.
I'm sorry you all had to go through that. That culture was alive and kicking when I was there, but if it had been so strong that not even a small pocket of friends could detach themselves from it, I would have been hating life a lot more.
Thanks for all your insight, it truly is appreciated.
-D7
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Not that they weren't ramming shit down our throats and stifling our freedom of expression, I just mean that we had enough time by ourselves to escape from both of those things that we were able to convince ourselves that things were still somewhat normal...even if they weren't...
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Yeah, I recognized you D7 'cause you and I have butted heads a little!! Usually a case of me taking you too seriously in other fora.
Yeah--it was the no time by ourselves thing.... we were never alone in my era and all associations were closely monitored. Often, they'd bust a "contract" before it even hapened, breaking us down in separate raps. The narc culture--even for things as trivial as far away smiles or using vaseline for mascara--was too pervasive to defy.
Shanlea
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Castle has made some great points. But, as a student from the earlier times, I do want to point out that some of us had gotten to a place of exhaustion. Most of us had been truly "locked up" in juvenile halls, CYA, psych hospitals, and... in some cases, jail, prior to arriving to Cedu. For the most part, the kids were older, too. It was rare that someone under 16 joined a peer group. I think that some were just ready to stop the madness, so to speak. There was still a significant amount of students that didn't buy into the program, but we were just tired. Does that make sense?
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Well, I know there were plenty of kids in mid to late eighties who were younger than 16!! In fact, I was 16 and one of the oldest. The youngest was 12--which was disgusting. And I can tell ya now the majority were not hospitalized/jailed/etc. In my time, a substantial # had rich dipshit parents too bored to bother with the mundane task of parenting and woke up surprised when their kid turned into an incredible handful.
Even the kids who "needed help" sure as hell wasn't gonna get any at a place with bogus academic and therapeutic support from staff so ego driven or weak they couldn't function in the real world. Because, believe me, the newbie staff tended to be seriously broken fucked up people looking for a program to belong to themselves.
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I only read the first paragraph of the 1st reply and will have to wait until tomorrow to read the rest however here are my initial thoughts.
1. If we had the opportunity to compare the quality (content), quantity and frequency of 'dirt lists' we submitted submitted in 1988 and in 1998 we, in my opinion, would be able to measure the degree of (cult)ure shift.
2. Trust me - we weren't incompetent. It was so tight that there were no weak links (even in the lowest of lowest staff members) in the chain to take advantage of.
more tomorrow....
Also - to 'Guest" that started this thread, were you cedu of the south or a RMA border child of the north' ? what year did you arrive?
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Yeah--it was the no time by ourselves thing.... we were never alone in my era and all associations were closely monitored. Often, they'd bust a "contract" before it even hapened, breaking us down in separate raps. The narc culture--even for things as trivial as far away smiles or using vaseline for mascara--was too pervasive to defy.
Precisely why I loved my wilderness challenge 4 day solo so much. Who cares that I only had one bag of GORP to eat and finished it all on the first day? I was away from all of those bastards. I could get up when I want, go to sleep when I want, beat off however many times a day without fear of being caught or my dormmates hearing me. Lay out in the sun. Write stupid brainwashed shit in my journal.
Starvation was a small price to pay. And I really wasn't all that hungry. Most of the people in my peer group were soooo nervous about going on solo, and I was like "Oh FUCK man, I can't wait!"
I was very bummed when it was over.
Most of us had been truly "locked up" in juvenile halls, CYA, psych hospitals, and... in some cases, jail, prior to arriving to Cedu.
Yeah, and CEDU made sure to remind you of it daily. Aren't you glad to be with us instead of there?
I have a history of being institutionalized, too. Psych ward, children's home. Which is why I was none the wiser when my parents pulled the "we're going to tour the facility" trick that RMA told so many parents to do to con their kids up to Idaho. I'd toured dozens of facilities before I went to the children's home. I'd toured several right before I went to RMA. I didn't think twice that I might be going up there to stay right then and there.
Granted, I had been out of the childrens' home for about a year before I got packed off, but I never felt like I was tired. It was more like "Here we go again." Another place. It was routine in my eyes. But then after my first rap, I realized that this was nothing like where I had been before. I was in crazytown. I remember thinking about the other facilities my parents and I had toured before I got sent up to RMA, and wished to god I had been sent to one of those instead.
Those feelings went away quickly, though. I went through the Truth about a week after I got there, and then got on a full-time about a month after that. By the end of that I was full of kool aid.
1. If we had the opportunity to compare the quality (content), quantity and frequency of 'dirt lists' we submitted submitted in 1988 and in 1998 we, in my opinion, would be able to measure the degree of (cult)ure shift.
I'm not sure about that. There could be many reasons why something is written down on a dirt list.
1. It's dirt
2. It's nitpicky, obsessive dirt because you feel guilty all the time
3. It's dirt where there is no dirt
4. It's not listed at all, despite the fact that you broke some retarded rule.
Dirt lists can be a lot of things, but they are rarely based on any sort of reality whatsoever.
Trying to gather data based on testimony given within the context and logic of the school isn't going to yield very reliable or accurate results.
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When I finally went through my Full Time journals...it was amazing the shit I was copping out to on my dirt lists. Absolutely amazing.
I purposely went 20 seconds over on my shower
I ate a piece of fruit during a non break time
It made me sick...that is when it all comes back and you realize what you were going through. (i.e. the cult)
Perhpas I should just post one of my dirt lists. I have 3 full time journals.
It might be good for discussion and laughs...
~J~
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When I finally went through my Full Time journals...it was amazing the shit I was copping out to on my dirt lists. Absolutely amazing.
I purposely went 20 seconds over on my shower
I ate a piece of fruit during a non break time
It made me sick...that is when it all comes back and you realize what you were going through. (i.e. the cult)
Perhpas I should just post one of my dirt lists. I have 3 full time journals.
It might be good for discussion and laughs...
~J~
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Yeah, and CEDU made sure to remind you of it daily. Aren't you glad to be with us instead of there?
Trust me when I say most of us staff in whatever programmes justified 80 percent of our bullshit on the above one premise alone.
IE:
"Well I suplexed him and then I kneed him on the way down and then I slammed him into the dirt, but at least he isn't in prison."
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My favorite dirt memory was as follows.
A guy in my peer group was in his first rap of his full time (hellfire and brimstone). Prior to the rap he had written his dirt list which contained a few interesting pieces of respectable dirt. One piece, that was real, was the fact that he snuck a hit of acid in his sorel boots and split it with another friend in the peer group.
Once the rap kicked off following the dreaded..."OK - let's have a rap" the room immediately began to adminster a high grade pummeling to the full-timer . The beatdown included all the standard bullshit which gave even the shyest, dirtest voyager in the room the coveted opportunity to belt out a half-baked look-good indictment with absolute authority and sanctimonious insight. Ahhh, and remember the massive foot-traffic from his side of the circle to the other side and the struggle to be exactly 180 degrees from him to deliver the optimal indictment........
Remember jonesing to be in that throne so you could accumulate as many look good points possible - like a jackal fighting to feast on the juiciest part of the caracass.
So the dust started to settle somewhat and Caroline asked him if there was any more dirt....at this point he confessed, for the first time, to the acid. The room, as you can imagine, ignited into another mighty inferno and then out of left field 1 student called bullshit. His theory was that the acid was fake (just a plain old piece of paper) and that the acid was given to the other guy in his peer group to win his friendship . "You're desperate for acceptance, You'll do anything to make people like you......" Amazingly the rap was enamoured with this sophisticated insight from numnutz and immediately jumped on his band wagon.
By this point an hour had gone by and the jackals were satiated and exhausted from their feeding frenzy - Caroline moved on to the next carcass.
So, those in the rap, Caroline included, were content with their conclusion that the acid was fake. The acid was never mentioned again nor did it generate any lore.
The truth is is that the acid was real.... but the kool-aid was "realer". A fine example of CEDU insanity.
- dishdutyfugitive
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When I finally went through my Full Time journals...it was amazing the shit I was copping out to on my dirt lists. Absolutely amazing.
I purposely went 20 seconds over on my shower
I ate a piece of fruit during a non break time
It made me sick...that is when it all comes back and you realize what you were going through. (i.e. the cult)
Perhpas I should just post one of my dirt lists. I have 3 full time journals.
It might be good for discussion and laughs...
~J~
Okay, you sold me on this. It would definitely be interesting to compare notes, if only for the absurdity that is CEDU.
For the record, I was at RMA from 87-89.
I thought I would preface this by a writing assigment I had during the summit workshop. I feel that what I wrote pretty much embodies the CEDU-think that was prevelant during the time of my stay.
I should also add that CEDU had me seriously whipped, even when I was in Voyageurs. I can't say for certain whether this was the case with everyone. At least one staff (John Aaron) mentioned to a CEDU friend of mine how he felt that I was one of the most tormented students in the school. Gee, John, why do you think that was, you fucking prick?
This is why I am not sure that dirt lists could indicate the level of strictness that was going on during a certain CEDU era, but rather, can only account for that individual's experience. Which kind of sucks, actually, because some perspective would be nice. IMO, I don't think there will be any difference in the types of dirt a student cops to from one era to another. The importance was that they followed the CEDU template of what was expected of us regarding what to cop out to.
Everything in italics is added commentary by myself.
Anyway, here is the assignment. It was titled "The Importance of Agreements in my Life."
"Before I came up here, I had no agreements. I had rules that were meant to be broken. Everything was chaotic because I never had a standard. I didn't know what I stood for, and I never drew a line with anything. I constantly broke my word. I felt like my life was out of control, because I never owned any of my agreements. When I'm out of agreement here, I feel really trapped and weighed down. I feel like I have less room to move around, and I feel guilty. - That there are less things I can do in my life. When I have agreements, there aren't any gray areas, I've either broken it, or I haven't. If I have broken it I feel like what I've just mentioned, and if I've stayed in agreement, I feel really clean. I have room for myself. Kind of like when I've finished my homework, because it's one thing that's out of my way and not weighing me down. Agreements keep me in line and are a reference point. I know something's going on with me if I'm out of agreement. When I break an agreement, I lose my freedom, because there's always something nagging at me in the back of my mind. I feel so much freer when I'm in agreement. I feel proud. I feel like there's less things to beat myself up about, and one thing that can give to myself. It's just a really clean feeling. Like saying 'Well yeah, I feel like shit about myself, but at least I'm in agreement.' Agreements are my foundation, my standard, my line. All too often I make something okay. Maybe that's why I feel trapped so often. Just writing about this makes me want to stay 100% in agreement. I can't afford not to, I feel shitty enough about myself. I don't need to be out of agreement, just to add onto it. I want to be someone who really keeps her [his] word."
Interesting how I talk about feeling "clean" repeatedly, and how it could somehow help me, despite the fact that I felt disgusted with myself most of the time.
I should also add that I truly, completely believed what I had written.
Now, for the two lists that I have salvaged from my time there. The first list is from my full-time in voyageurs. Here it is.
All students, for both lists, are listed as blanks. All staff are named, because they deserve no anonymity.
1. I went down to my dorm once without permission.
2. Paying air guitar
3. Singing unacceptables alone and around people. (This part is very important because I always think about songs like this. The music I listened to dealt a lot with death and violence and insanity and a lot of scary things. I listened to it at home because I was always so angry and I got even angrier when I listened to it. Whenever I sang it here it was because I was very angry and in my shit. I was very much in my death. It also made me very homesick and that didn't help matters at all. This music really supports my death and all of my negative thinking.) [I'm not sure why I added commentary to this, except maybe that I felt I was under additional pressure to justify or rationalize my actions.]
4. Taking work or game related bans out of hand.
5. Keeping lights on after lights out.
6. Breaking bans
7. Not tucking in my shirt.
8. Not keeping my hair back.
9. Not eating
10. Asking about my friend over the phone when I knew the phone agreements already.
11. Smiling on my full time
12. Asking for three sweaters in a letter when only two of the sweaters got cleared.
13. Badrapping __________ and ____________. (There are probably more people than that but I can't remember.)
14. Taking a kneaded eraser from the woodshed.
15. Not waking up on time.
16. Not doing my dorm job.
17. Not cleaning under my mattress.
18. Not being up to breakfast on time.
19. Writing an unacceptable song (from an unacceptable movie) on paper.
20. Not keeping my footlocker tight.
21. Going through a day without taking a shower.
22. Hitting the axe or hatchet into a stump.
23. Petting the cats at the farm.
[We couldn't pet the cats on the farm???]
Compare this to the dirt list from the summit, which was split into two parts, broken agreements with myself, and broken agreements with others. I don't see much of a difference with the list from my full-time, really, with the possible exception that there were more expectations placed on an older student, and therefore, more chances to "get dirty" by not meeting these expectations.
With myself:
1. I never became a dorm head
2. Taking longer than 5 minute showers
3. Being late up to the house a lot.
4. When I go down to the dorm to get something, twice I stopped to use the bathroom and it took a while. (20 minutes)
5. I promised myself I would start coming down in the dorm and I never did. [I believe this meant being stricter.]
6. Throughout my stay here, there are many goals that I never completed. (I can't even remember them, except for a Discovery first light.)
7. My dorm wasn't tight.
8. I would promise myself that I wouldn't masturbate often (over 3 times a week or twice in one day) and I did.
9. I promised myself I would never have lesbian [which would now be considered straight, I suppose. :P] thoughts, or if I did, I'd fight it, and instead, I surrendered to it.
10. I promised myself that I would be committed to flossing and I stopped.
11. Having mine and the dorm's lights out late.
With others:
1. I promised my dad that I would write my grandmother a thank you note and I never did.
2. I promised Linda and Stacy that I would find a way to get back into agreement after my home visit and I never did.
3. I did that with Richard, too.
4. I promised Sheila and __________ that I would have the logo for the basketball team done within two weeks and it never was.
5. I told Rea that I needed a study hall to work on college stuff and instead I helped _______ with his challenge night. [God, how horrible, helping out someone.]
6. My mom would tell me to "take better care of myself" (wash face more often, brush teeth more often, stay warm [bundle up]) and I said yes I would just to get her off my back, and I didn't.
7. I would promise people I would talk to them or eat lunch with them and I wouldn't.
8. I have requested ___________ and ___________ for a rap and then I didn't talk to them.
9. I didn't make rap requests often.
10. Not having my homework in on time.
11. I'm a hypocrite. I'll tell someone to take a 5 minute shower and then I won't be aware of how long my showers are.
12. I kicked back [for] an entire dorm cleanup last month.
13. Lying to people and telling them I'm fine when I'm not.
14. Turning in library books late.
15. I promised my mom, dad and cousin that I would never try to kill myself again, and I did.
[I'm not sure why this last item is on here, due to the fact that this happened well before I arrived at RMA.]
The narcissistic side of me thinks that I was unusually hard on myself compared to other students. I know that I have a perfectionist, obsessive personality, and the ridiculous regimen at RMA didn't help. However, the rational side says that other people from my time would cop to the same kind of insane minutia. I don't remember other people's dirt lists, because realistically, we really didn't care about our peers' "transgressions", despite the fact that we yelled at each other in raps about it.
Shan, Idaho, back me up on this? Were your dirt lists as crazy?
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Yes, my dirt lists were equally if not more detailed than yours. I too wonder how much RMA fueled the over the top perfectionist in me.
Playing air guitar. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. That is hilarious. I forgot about that agreement.
- Dishdutyfugitive (graduated rma 90)
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There's no doubt that Castle is Neurotic as hell and under the structure of the program, probably one of the hardest working people to ever grace a CEDU campus. See, what people never will get except those that did the whole thing, is that it encourages feelings of helplessness, lack of control, self hatred and lowered by self esteem, UNDER THE GUISE of doing the opposite. I think most people did not respond the way some older, already more mature and very very arrogent already soon to become programmies did. They may have been there for some more serious issues and it's just possible that that kind of mindfuck done to the right degree could help 1 in 500 kids. MOST kids that went were actually having the esteem issues and may have been growing up too quick. But most, when I was there, wrote consistently their dirt, felt bad 99 per cent of the time, felt they were struggling through the whole goddamn program, and that is success in the program standard.Question everything you have no control over, and then rant, cry, scream and pound pillows until you realize what you should have known to begin with:
"You gotta make your own kind of music..."
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There's no doubt that Castle is Neurotic as hell
:rofl:
I like how you capitalized the "N" hee hee. Does that mean It's trademarked?
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Lol….here is one of my dirt lists that I recently came across.
1. I stayed up past lights out
2. I smiled and laughed while on bans
3. I borrowed from my dorm-mates
4. I caused ____ and ______ to stray away from their agreements by singing inappropriate music and telling inappropriate jokes to them.
5. I sat next to _______ in every rap for three weeks
6. I asked about my Dad during a phone call because I had a new staff monitoring my phone call and thought they wouldn’t know that I was on restriction from talking about my dad other than in groups until I had worked through certain issues.
7. I didn’t eat
8. I promised my team leader, my mother and myself that I wouldn’t make myself throw up anymore, but I continued to do so
9. I passed notes
10. I talked about running away with ______ and ______ and ________
11. I took a longer shower than was allowed
12. I didn’t complete my chores as they were assigned.
13. I talked to _____ in between groups and raps even though I was on bans from them specifically.
14. I skipped washing my hair twice.
15. I asked for a pair of jeans that weren’t approved
16. I didn’t do all of my laundry on my day
17. I lent money to _______
18. I talked about Caroline behind her back instead of confronting her with my issues
19. I pretended to be sick
20. I didn’t write to my sister even though it was assigned.
I also found a writing assignment of mine that made me laugh….It was “100 lies that I have toldâ€
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That's good stuff. You must be female. Guys didn't have face/hair washing agreements.
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Is "not demanding to be believed" about confessing to 'taking acid' (at RMA) while being accused of lying about taking acid, in a rap dirt?
Wouldn't that qualify as lying to caroline about not lying while being accused of lying?
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around 92 or was it 93? There was this blonde dude who lived on the edge of the school. by the farm i think. his name was steve something and i think his wife lived there? i think he had to move, i found a huge bottle of carlo rossi under his house. i snuck it off to the woods, buried it, and returned a couple of days later. i drank the whole damn thing. i had to go wash the dishes in that fucking hot ass little room. the girl (Kesi) who was washing dishes with me asked me if i was drunk. i laughed. then i ran out and puked in that side restroom, you know the one the guys went to jerk off in peace. LOL i totally got away with it.
i also went on a home visit and my friend heard i was coming down and hid a pinner in the bushes by my house. i didnt have a chance to smoke it so i cut a hole in the stiching of my parka and sewed it back up. went back and walked to the top of microwave hill and sparked it. jumped in that freezing ass cold pool so my eyes had a reason to be red. one of my best friends was a girl named sara and i kept very obviously hitting on her. i think she laughed me off.
i walked about 25 feet down the backside and smoked tea. mmmm, yeah tea.
i never put any of that shit on a dirt list.
i was feeling nostalgic one day around 00 or 01. i was on my way to big bear, took a little detour down bluebird ln? late at night, pulled up by the gate, got out walked to the driveway armed with my trusty 2 footer. boy i done smoked myself retarted. i pissed in the bushes, flipped off the school and made my way on. ahhh closure.