Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 02, 2007, 12:57:04 PM
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I've been pointed in the direction of several websites containing many survivor stories. I have enough of them for my research.
Now I am looking for Ex-Staff written testimonials about what they did to kids so we can prove what the survivors are alleging it accurate. Without confirmation from staff this will be difficult to say the least.
Is there any testimony located on this website, I would appreciate a link or three, thanks so much.
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http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21315 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21315)
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& Just in case any do show up here are some simple questions that will help tremendously.
1. What program(s) did you work for?
2. What type of program was it?
3. How long did you work for each respective program?
4. How much were you payed?
5. Did you ever witness physical abuse?
6. Did you ever physically abuse a student?
7. Did you ever witness psychological abuse?
8. Did you ever psychologically abuse a student?
9. Were there ever reports of sexual abuse at the facility?
10. Did any of the staff use drugs or alcohol while on duty?
11. Were kids ever left unattended that should not have been?
12. Were meals limited?
13. Did you help implement a level system or peer review system?
14. Was isolation used as punishment?
15. Was contact for the student with society limited? In what ways?
16. Did the kids seem happy or sad? What was the day to day mood like?
17. Do you feel your place of employment was the best place for the students in your care?
18. Do you keep in contact with students still?
19. How common was physical assaults and fighting?
20. Did you ever have to restrain a student, if so, how many times?
21. Were you properly trained to do restraints? Were they ever excessive?
22. Do you regret working for a program?
Please answer these honestly and in detail and that should help me get started. You are doing a wonderful service, this is important work to help kids currently locked up. Even more importantly it lends credibility to the students who allege that staff treat them negatively in some cases and confirm their allegations of abuse against the school in general are accurate.
I have more questions. This should get us started.
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1. What program(s) did you work for?
SIBS
2. What type of program was it?
A damned good one!
3. How long did you work for each respective program?
Let's just say I have one hell of a resumé.
4. How much were you payed?
Nunya!
5. Did you ever witness physical abuse?
NUNYA!
6. Did you ever physically abuse a student?
Only when they pissed me off enough. They had it coming!
7. Did you ever witness psychological abuse?
What's that?
8. Did you ever psychologically abuse a student?
>Yawn<
9. Were there ever reports of sexual abuse at the facility?
Only in the gorilla cage, but that was the whole idea. (see website)
10. Did any of the staff use drugs or alcohol while on duty?
Not on MY watch, they didn’t! :flame:
11. Were kids ever left unattended that should not have been?
No, they had Gary to keep them company... :rofl:
12. Were meals limited?
Yes. Sometimes they'd sneak peanuts though! :flame:
13. Did you help implement a level system or peer review system?
Of course...duh! :lol:
14. Was isolation used as punishment?
Yes, all the time. So what?
15. Was contact for the student with society limited? In what ways?
Yes, it had to be!
16. Did the kids seem happy or sad? What was the day to day mood like?
The little fuckers were happy as clams. ::hehehmm::
17. Do you feel your place of employment was the best place for the students in your care?
Absolutely!
18. Do you keep in contact with students still?
Not if I can help it. Some of the more obstinate ones have harassed me with lawsuits and such.
19. How common [were] physical assaults and fighting?
Who gives a shit? It was all for a good cause – getting STRAIGHT.
20. Did you ever have to restrain a student, if so, how many times?
No moron, I was an executive. :roll:
22. Do you regret working for a program?
HELL NO! :evil:
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Does this researcher think an ex-staff is going to post their working experience in a program openingly and honestly on an open forum? Where's that troll meter?
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Does this researcher think an ex-staff is going to post their working experience in a program openingly and honestly on an open forum? Where's that troll meter?
You must of missed the second post in this thread.
If they are serious about lending credibility to survivor statements and parent statements- like many are- yes, should be honest and open otherwise it is wasted time.
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1. What program(s) did you work for? Eckerds, Three Springs
2. What type of program was it? Eckerds youth alternatives is a long term wilderness camping program for adjudicated youth. Three Springs is Theraputic Boarding School.
3. How long did you work for each respective program? 2 years each
4. How much were you payed? 21,000 for Eckerds, and 25,000 for Three Springs
5. Did you ever witness physical abuse? yes
6. Did you ever physically abuse a student?yes
7. Did you ever witness psychological abuse?yes
8. Did you ever psychologically abuse a student?yes
9. Were there ever reports of sexual abuse at the facility?At three springs yes, but that was before my time.
10. Did any of the staff use drugs or alcohol while on duty? Not by me, not sure about others. I showed up a few times hung over though.
11. Were kids ever left unattended that should not have been? Question is to vague, but as a guess I would say no by me. I know other counselors at 3 Springs were far less dilligent.
12. Were meals limited? The meals sucked. They were limited by their poor taste, repititions, and institutional quality. However, they did provide most of the caloric content needed. Can't speak for how healthy they were though, cause I put on like 30 pounds working for 3 springs. Meals at Eckerd were actually good tasting, and very nutrious.
13. Did you help implement a level system or peer review system? yes.
14. Was isolation used as punishment? In an limited way yes.
15. Was contact for the student with society limited? In what ways? phone calls restricted to family members as was mail.
16. Did the kids seem happy or sad? What was the day to day mood like? Mood sucked, and the frequent escape and suicide attempts should indicate their happiness.
17. Do you feel your place of employment was the best place for the students in your care? No.
18. Do you keep in contact with students still? no
19. How common was physical assaults and fighting? Varied from group to group. The older groups wasn't very common, in my younger group at 3 springs it was pretty common. At Eckerds I saw maybe 5 fights in 2 years and all of them were split up pretty quickly.
20. Did you ever have to restrain a student, if so, how many times? yes, I believe at 3 springs I perfromed between 180 to 300 restraints. I stopped bothering to report most of them after awhile due to the paperwork. That and no one really cared if I reported them or not, and the administration did very little to deal with the situation. At Eckerds I had 4 or 5 restraints.
21. Were you properly trained to do restraints? Were they ever excessive? I dunno about what constitutes proper training, but I did get recertified every 6 to 12 months at both Eckerds and Three Springs. Training was typically a 2 day affair for when you first were certified and a 1 day affair for when you recertified.
Every single time you lay your hands on a child for any reason it is excessive. A restraint represents failure to keep communication open, and most counselors aren't trained well enough to communicate with people who are struggling with their emotions.
22. Do you regret working for a program? every single day.
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You'd be surprised how many ex staff would be willing to help if they weren't so busy being bashed when they haven't even been here in months.
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You'd be surprised how many ex staff would be willing to help if they weren't so busy being bashed when they haven't even been here in months.
Surprise us, tell us how many. Are you talking someone specific, can you provide links?
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You might try getting a user account. I know I didn't mind filling out the form as it doesn't ask me anything I haven't said before. Most ex-staff I know probably wouldn't bother filling it out due to not knowing who you are.
Rightfully so.. they face a ration of shit and more should it turn out you aren't who you say you are.
Personally I don't give a shit myself, but again I didn't say anything I already haven't before.
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c'mon now.. research? How accurate can research be if you are posting anonymously on this site? :-?
If you are writing a book (ss), we know you are trying to sling it out fast for a quick buck.. . but please. You could do some real research and ask people if they would be willing to talk with you in person... have some _____ :exclaim: ::hrumph::
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Nah, this "researcher" couldn't possibly be SS, could it?
Everyone knows that is seems that SS only believes that kids get abused in WWASP facilities...and this abuse at WWASP facilities only seems to happen AFTER she stops referring to WWASP....
All other kids who are abused at any facilities, other than WWASP, appear to be manipulative liars, who have mean, cruel, liar parents who just want to wrongfully accuse the kind, loving owners of the programs of abuse according to SS.
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1. What program(s) did you work for? Eckerds, Three Springs
2. What type of program was it? Eckerds youth alternatives is a long term wilderness camping program for adjudicated youth. Three Springs is Theraputic Boarding School.
3. How long did you work for each respective program? 2 years each
4. How much were you payed? 21,000 for Eckerds, and 25,000 for Three Springs
5. Did you ever witness physical abuse? yes
6. Did you ever physically abuse a student?yes
7. Did you ever witness psychological abuse?yes
8. Did you ever psychologically abuse a student?yes
9. Were there ever reports of sexual abuse at the facility?At three springs yes, but that was before my time.
10. Did any of the staff use drugs or alcohol while on duty? Not by me, not sure about others. I showed up a few times hung over though.
11. Were kids ever left unattended that should not have been? Question is to vague, but as a guess I would say no by me. I know other counselors at 3 Springs were far less dilligent.
12. Were meals limited? The meals sucked. They were limited by their poor taste, repititions, and institutional quality. However, they did provide most of the caloric content needed. Can't speak for how healthy they were though, cause I put on like 30 pounds working for 3 springs. Meals at Eckerd were actually good tasting, and very nutrious.
13. Did you help implement a level system or peer review system? yes.
14. Was isolation used as punishment? In an limited way yes.
15. Was contact for the student with society limited? In what ways? phone calls restricted to family members as was mail.
16. Did the kids seem happy or sad? What was the day to day mood like? Mood sucked, and the frequent escape and suicide attempts should indicate their happiness.
17. Do you feel your place of employment was the best place for the students in your care? No.
18. Do you keep in contact with students still? no
19. How common was physical assaults and fighting? Varied from group to group. The older groups wasn't very common, in my younger group at 3 springs it was pretty common. At Eckerds I saw maybe 5 fights in 2 years and all of them were split up pretty quickly.
20. Did you ever have to restrain a student, if so, how many times? yes, I believe at 3 springs I perfromed between 180 to 300 restraints. I stopped bothering to report most of them after awhile due to the paperwork. That and no one really cared if I reported them or not, and the administration did very little to deal with the situation. At Eckerds I had 4 or 5 restraints.
21. Were you properly trained to do restraints? Were they ever excessive? I dunno about what constitutes proper training, but I did get recertified every 6 to 12 months at both Eckerds and Three Springs. Training was typically a 2 day affair for when you first were certified and a 1 day affair for when you recertified.
Every single time you lay your hands on a child for any reason it is excessive. A restraint represents failure to keep communication open, and most counselors aren't trained well enough to communicate with people who are struggling with their emotions.
22. Do you regret working for a program? every single day.
TheWho is attacked for having made one comment, which was repeatedly apologized for. Why doesn't everyone gang up on Three Springs , he actually abused kids. TheWho has never struck or restrained a child in his life he said. Group think at fornits is taking over!!
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
When TheWho is backed into a corner, he goes searching for other people's words that might take the heat off of him.
Sounds immature, maybe he should be sent to a program?
I have no problem forgiving ex-staff and looking past a few restraints, at least he doesn't still advocate this treatment and has a pretty good idea of what goes on behind the scenes.
It's easy to judge people on their past actions. TheWho is just trying to take attention away from himself, not because of guilt, but because he showed us what he is realy like...
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Why is TheWho posting anonymously to rip 3springs (at least 3 springs is HONEST)?
Why, TheWho? Why do you post anonymously to rip 3springs? Got no balls, eh?
Let's face the facts here. TheWho has said some really nasty, painful and inappropriate things to survivors of abuse. 3springs has made amends for his behavior while DOING AS DIRECTED by programs that TheWho would love to see every kid in.
TheWho is a miscreant that gets off on other people's (especially children's) suffering at the hands of twisted sick-o's - loves to throw their sex abuse in their faces. Can't get around that one.
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The reason TSW did so many restraints was because parents were paying him A LOT OF MONEY to do this to their kid!!
If the parents never paid TSW to restrain their kids, it would not have happened.
TSW is an innocent young college graduate who got into an industry he knew nothing about. He was abused himself in the industry.
TheWho knows full well the extent of abuse in this industry, and STILL advocates children be placed in it!
That is the difference.
TSW is a victim. TheWHO is a perpetrator!
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He's been perpetratin' here for a while... Have a look-see at his latest. Why would he try to change the focus off himself I wonder? :lol:
Thank you, TheWho, for giving us a window into your dementia from time to time. This is a gem:
This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?
Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
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Does TSW claim he was "an innocent victim of the industry?"
TSW appears to post honestly that he was wrong to have abused these children who were under his care in these programs.
His postings have never offered up the "excuse" that the program he worked for "abused him and ordered him to restrain these kids over 300 times." TSW posted that he didn't even report most of these restraints.
TSW admits that he didn't quit work at this program, he was actually FIRED.
But no one can make/order a grown, college-educated man to abuse a child.
Does this make TSW a horrible person? No it does not.
TSW has been honest in his postings; and nowhere does he seem to offer that he was a "victiim" or that he was "following orders" to excessively restrain these kids.
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You might try getting a user account. I know I didn't mind filling out the form as it doesn't ask me anything I haven't said before. Most ex-staff I know probably wouldn't bother filling it out due to not knowing who you are.
Rightfully so.. they face a ration of shit and more should it turn out you aren't who you say you are.
Personally I don't give a shit myself, but again I didn't say anything I already haven't before.
You get mad props for being honest and helping put the smackdown on what you know first-hand is a fucked-up system.
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I agree, mad props.
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Does TSW claim he was "an innocent victim of the industry?"
TSW appears to post honestly that he was wrong to have abused these children who were under his care in these programs.
His postings have never offered up the "excuse" that the program he worked for "abused him and ordered him to restrain these kids over 300 times." TSW posted that he didn't even report most of these restraints.
TSW admits that he didn't quit work at this program, he was actually FIRED.
But no one can make/order a grown, college-educated man to abuse a child.
Does this make TSW a horrible person? No it does not.
TSW has been honest in his postings; and nowhere does he seem to offer that he was a "victiim" or that he was "following orders" to excessively restrain these kids.
You really need to shut the fuck up right now. TSW has done more for helping kids stuck in hell-holes than you have ever done. Without staff coming forward we would never be able to confirm the tales from the kids since they are not believable. We need more staff coming forward!!!
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I agree, mad props.
ditto
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Does TSW claim he was "an innocent victim of the industry?"
TSW appears to post honestly that he was wrong to have abused these children who were under his care in these programs.
His postings have never offered up the "excuse" that the program he worked for "abused him and ordered him to restrain these kids over 300 times." TSW posted that he didn't even report most of these restraints.
TSW admits that he didn't quit work at this program, he was actually FIRED.
But no one can make/order a grown, college-educated man to abuse a child.
Does this make TSW a horrible person? No it does not.
TSW has been honest in his postings; and nowhere does he seem to offer that he was a "victiim" or that he was "following orders" to excessively restrain these kids.
You really need to shut the fuck up right now. TSW has done more for helping kids stuck in hell-holes than you have ever done. Without staff coming forward we would never be able to confirm the tales from the kids since they are not believable. We need more staff coming forward!!!
It isn't easy saying you did something pretty much unspeakable... but in this case, by simply saying it, so so much good is done.
I don't think many staff realize how much good they could do, how many people they could help, if more of them were willing to speak out.
TSW does not say he was a victim of the industry. He is more sensitive than that. I think he was a victim, but if I was in his position... I can't really imagine the guilt. He wanted to help people, and ended up unwittingly hurting them. It's not easy to forgive yourself. It's easy to understand how you fucked up, it's not easy to excuse it and say "not my fault". There is a big difference. I can't really emphasize enough how grateful I am to him, and how much I admire his courage and willingness to, at his own risk, apologize and make amends to those he hurt (in as much as could be done).
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I agree- I wish he would go into more detail, even though its hard, to give parents an idea of what goes on in these places. Something like confessions of a former counselor/..
that would scare the hell out of me if I was a parent considering sending my teen.. even if it were anonymous more staff need to speak out and corroborate what survivors have been saying for decades now...
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I agree- I wish he would go into more detail, even though its hard, to give parents an idea of what goes on in these places. Something like confessions of a former counselor/..
that would scare the hell out of me if I was a parent considering sending my teen.. even if it were anonymous more staff need to speak out and corroborate what survivors have been saying for decades now...
I've been contemplating dialing up ex-staff from Benchmark... The average length of stay was about a year. Most burnt out, relapsed, etc etc... They couldn't take the stress.
I wish TSW, or another former staffer, would write something from their perspective, describing exactly what was wrong with what went on (since it's not always easy to put your finger on it), the effects it had on others, and how it feels to come out and speak about it, thereby helping others.
If that post could then be forwarded towards former staff, either at benchmark, or other places, and could move hearts... who knows...
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average length of stay at my particular three springs facility....3 months... 6 months if you got guilted into staying longer than 3 months. 1 year if you got sucked into the whole "the program/job gets better as you go along with it."
Brainwashing happens.
Desensitization happens.
Ex staff suffer from post traumatic stress. Things were done that i dont agree with, but went along with because it was "the program". It was the way things were supposed to be done. I dont deny that i got sucked into a black hole of a program. I was a "n00b college grad" who "looked to change the world". I had warnings from people at my college (administrators and teachers) who told me to avoid Three Springs. I didnt listen because i thought i could make a difference. I started May 28, 2004 --- I quit September 10, 2004 after having a nervous breakdown in my apartment prior to going on shift "by myself" I worked 106 days...15 weeks,.... 3 months and 3 weeks... and it drained me. IT sucked the life out of me.
What happened at my facility should never ever happen to a person... child, teen, or adult. It was cruel and enslaving. We worked from 5:45 am until 11-12 midnight.... with no breaks. Calls for help went unheeded by administration and supervisors. I have long periods during that time that i have blocked out due to the excessive stress.
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1. What program(s) did you work for?
Three Springs, Morningstar Academy
2. What type of program was it?
Girls Therapeutic outdoor program, Mentally handicapped childrens therapeutic home.
3. How long did you work for each respective program?
3 months and 3 weeks... and approximately 1 month 2 weeks
4. How much were you payed?
21,000 a year -- there was a raise but i forget that figure it was something like 23,700 a year....2,700 raise.
Morningstar-- 10.00 an hour
****Job Description****
Three springs - Counselor I
Morningstar - Paraprofessional (school)
5. Did you ever witness physical abuse?
if restraints were considered physical abuse, then yes. If "vocational" time (forced yard work) was considered physical abuse then yes
6. Did you ever physically abuse a student?
IF either of those were true, yes
7. Did you ever witness psychological abuse?
at times there were things that could be considered psych abuse
8. Did you ever psychologically abuse a student?
manipulating the student into doing what was required of them by the program- - yes.
9. Were there ever reports of sexual abuse at the facility?
Three Springs - Some.. but not many
Morningstar - yes--- staff on student, and student on student.
10. Did any of the staff use drugs or alcohol while on duty?
Not to my knowledge
11. Were kids ever left unattended that should not have been?
Not to my knowledge, though both facilities had their moments.
12. Were meals limited?
Diets were monitored by the state, but the meals were sub par (alot of hamburger helper and tuna helper, alot of chef boyardee, alot of crappy pre-made stuff, snacks were junk food because of the calories, not the nutritional content.)
13. Did you help implement a level system or peer review system?
Yes, there was one in place when i got there... The students earned points to advance in levels.
14. Was isolation used as punishment?
Three Springs- it wasnt called isolation, it was group ignore. The student would still stick with the group but not allowed interaction. In some cases, the student would be required to cook own meals outside of the group.
Morningstar- there was an isolation room that we could lock from the outside. we mostly used this room for extensive restraints... the room was the size of a large walk in closet. It had a light to be controlled from the outside and a deadbolt on the door. When i got there, we were only supposed to use the room in extreme cases. Children would urinate on the floors to get out of the isolation room. some children would smear poop everywhere. Bathrooms were kept locked and had to be opened with a key.
15. Was contact for the student with society limited? In what ways?
Yes for both facilities. Rarely or no contact allowed.
16. Did the kids seem happy or sad? What was the day to day mood like?
Three Springs: kids hated it.
Morningstar: kids didnt know any better, they were mentally retarded.
17. Do you feel your place of employment was the best place for the students in your care?
In some cases yes, in others no.
18. Do you keep in contact with students still?
1 student from 3 springs. yes. and i;ve had contact with a couple others as well.
19. How common was physical assaults and fighting?
Three springs - every day
Morningstar - every day
20. Did you ever have to restrain a student, if so, how many times?
Three Springs - like 4-5 times in 3 months (they discouraged restraints) most of my incident reports were from physical altercations.
Morningstar - Every day 3-5 times a day with different students.
21. Were you properly trained to do restraints? Were they ever excessive?
Yes i was properly trained by their system. and yes i believe some restraints were excessive...
22. Do you regret working for a program?
EVERY SINGLE DAY!
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The reason TSW did so many restraints was because parents were paying him A LOT OF MONEY to do this to their kid!!
If the parents never paid TSW to restrain their kids, it would not have happened.
TSW is an innocent young college graduate who got into an industry he knew nothing about. He was abused himself in the industry.
TheWho knows full well the extent of abuse in this industry, and STILL advocates children be placed in it!
That is the difference.
TSW is a victim. TheWHO is a perpetrator!
I wouldn't classify myself as a victim. Either way I'm still waiting on that lot of money I was supposed to have been paid. Most of time I lived under the poverty level after all my taxes were taken out.
Let me guess.. Check is in the mail?
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parents never paid "us" as staff.. they paid the program.. the program money went to line the pockets of the CEO etc...