Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: sick of child torture girl on April 14, 2007, 03:07:32 AM
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I found this at thayler learning center website..ya know the one where the murdered a boy while humiliateing him ..like by scrubing his genitals with a toilet brush and getting all the kids to join in physically and emotionally tortuing him...........
I am a Changed Person
Hello, I am proud to say today, in front of all of you, that I am a changed person.
Before my rude awakening at Thayer Learning Center, I was a troubled teenager who made all the wrong choices in life. I was headed down the road to a hard life and I was getting there extremely fast. I thought I was invincible and that I would never end up one of the kids in all those statistics you read about. If I would have never came to Thayer Learning Center I would have been one of them.
When I was at home I was a very disrespectful person to my family and myself. I got into many fights with my parents and I would yell and scream at my mother. I would push my mom around a lot and cuss at her. We never really had a good relationship with each other. There wasn’t good communication between us and whenever she had something to say I wouldn’t listen anyway. I was skipping school a lot and partying all the time. It was just another way of hiding from all my problems. I often lied to my parents and did my best not to tell them where I was or where I was going.
Sometimes I would come home in the early hours of morning and pretend that everything was all right.
My parents had been thinking of sending me to a boot camp for years. They finally decided in the beginning of April. When I arrived I was very angry at the world, but that didn’t last long. I was very stubborn and it took me until my 36th day to get my brown shirt. The hardest part of boot camp for me was paying attention to detail and making the choice to work hard for what I wanted.
I moved up to residency on July 22nd, my 105th day. While I was in residency I let myself slip and get too comfortable, which cost me a couple of trips down to boot camp. It was very tough to put up with 25 girls, all with different problems and personalities that clashed all the time. I spent about 7 months in residency. I was in residency so long because it was hard for them to take me seriously when I joked around so much. So it took me an extra four months to move up to Sr. Resident.
I did very well as a Sr. Resident and I moved up to Jr. Staff in less than two weeks. I moved up on January 28th. Junior Staff has been a tough and fun experience all at the same time. Sometimes it gets tough trying to be the example 24/7. I also had so much I needed to get done and so much that I was looking forward to.
I have made it through the program 412 days later and persevered through it all, all the smiles and the tears. I have had a life turn around and have learned a lot. The greatest thing I have learned is to just love and be loved in return.
If I could tell all of the cadets here at Thayer Learning Center it would be that the greatest things we have in life are Faith, Hope, and Love. Live with all of them.
I am leaving today, respectful, self-confident, and happy.
I would like to thank my precious family for supporting me and being beside me all the way, and the Bundies for helping to give me my life back. I would also like to thank the sergeants for making Jr. Staff fun, and everything else they’ve helped me with. My family rep, I would like to give you a big thank you for being a great family rep. To all the other incredible staff members thank you all for helping me along the way to get me where I am today. Last, but not least thank you for always being there.
Thank-You
So gross. You know in real, non -torture "highschool" the first three quarters of your "graduation" speach isnt about what a horrible terrible cretin you were who, oh my god, argued with your mother, and oh my god, spent time having fun with your freinds. What thayler has taught this girl is masochism, public self inflicted humiliation.
Its taught her parents that for enough money you can pummel the dignity, the mind, and the humanity out of a once living youth. Why Parents, you can create that broken doormat that doesnt exist except to serve your narsisistic ego by public declarations of how terrible they were to you(so true, poor brave you!) and never, never think of their needs or desires or have an ability to think independantly again. OF cfrse your childs life doesnt have the rosiest outlook as people generally need their brains to function but thats not what matters right?
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sorry bout spelling errors so late :lol:
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I was very stubborn and it took me until my 36th day to get my brown shirt.
Those brown shirts had a certain legacy, shall we say, in World War II. Perhaps it is not so coincidental that Thayer Learning Center/bootcamp resurrected their desirability in such a fashion.
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Wow, just boarderline insulting to most people that are real cadets at a senior military college. I really really hate when people use the military or military like boot camps for correction. Thats not the point of boot camps, nor is it the point of military trainning to beat the crap out of some one. Its just insulting to all military people. And fomerer military that work at these boot camps, or work at these "cadet insitutions", I believe have no honor.
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I often wonder if when the kids write and say they are happy and mean it, is there any harm done?
I don't mean the kids who are so mentally screwed up that they don't really know how they feel anymore, I really am talking about those who are genuinely happy how their lives have turned out, isn't that all anyone wants from life? And if they are happy with what they've been through to get there, then isn't it a good thing?
I'm asking as an outsider really, having never been to a program or having never sent my own children to one, and also as a person who is not happy and would go through several hells just to believe/feel I really am
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I often wonder if when the kids write and say they are happy and mean it, is there any harm done?
I don't mean the kids who are so mentally screwed up that they don't really know how they feel anymore, I really am talking about those who are genuinely happy how their lives have turned out, isn't that all anyone wants from life? And if they are happy with what they've been through to get there, then isn't it a good thing?
I'm asking as an outsider really, having never been to a program or having never sent my own children to one, and also as a person who is not happy and would go through several hells just to believe/feel I really am
Exhausted, Coming from a parent who had a child in a TBS it is a great feeling getting those first letters. At first you are not sure how genuine the words are until you go to your first visit. When you see your child that has come so far in such a short period of time, regained self esteem, studying again and feeling good about themselves again and genuinely happy. For the first time in a long time they have plans for themselves (not just tomorrow night).
There is not a better feeling in the world then seeing someone you love feeling good about themselves and happy.
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But how do you know beyond doubt that they aren't just so programed that they'll say anything to make others think they feel happy, just because it is the way of the program? As in, the kid doing whatever it takes to make everything seem okay in order to get everyone to back off
How can anyone tell wether the kid is genuinely happy and grateful, which I'm sure some of them really are, or wether they don't know thenselves what they feel anymore?
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But how do you know beyond doubt that they aren't just so programed that they'll say anything to make others think they feel happy, just because it is the way of the program? As in, the kid doing whatever it takes to make everything seem okay in order to get everyone to back off
How can anyone tell wether the kid is genuinely happy and grateful, which I'm sure some of them really are, or wether they don't know thenselves what they feel anymore?
Good question, I really didnt know. It is hard to tell from a letter, (just like here on the forum. People respond and it is hard to tell if they are angry by my posts or just asking for more clarification etc.).......until I went to visit her. Once we sat and talked it became clear that she was doing well.
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and thats why she didnt speak to him for two years after escaping. She was just so happy.
Exhausted many of these programs wont allow you to write any letters home unless they say youre happy.
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Well thats the kind of thing I mean, the letters and phone calls, visits etc where the kids have to say they're happy or risk mental or physical torture don't paint a true picture, even when they leave (I think Psy said something about this) they still believe they have been saved when there was nothuing wrong in the first place
So how do we distinguish between such kids and the ones who realy are genuinely glad they went to a program
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I'll just add that even if a child is genuinely happy about their outcome post-program that does not justify any abuse suffered, help at any cost? Thayer is one of the worst programs I've heard about and their track record of abuse and fraud is concrete. If this kid is just getting out of program I'd bet that the Bundies put her up to it to combat the bad press over the Roberto Reyes case.
But yeah exhausted, here's the ISAC page on Thayer Learning Center (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/thayerlearningcenter.asp)
*shakes head at who?*
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No no am not justifying it, I am as anti abuse as the next man, it's just an interesting subject is all
thanks for the link though.
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Well thats the kind of thing I mean, the letters and phone calls, visits etc where the kids have to say they're happy or risk mental or physical torture don't paint a true picture, even when they leave (I think Psy said something about this) they still believe they have been saved when there was nothuing wrong in the first place
So how do we distinguish between such kids and the ones who realy are genuinely glad they went to a program
You really can't due to the nature of programs. I think many will just say whatever to keep the experience in their past. The question I have is does it matter? Will a satisfied student justify abusive treatment?
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No no am not justifying it, I am as anti abuse as the next man, it's just an interesting subject is all
thanks for the link though.
Thats not what I'm saying :oops:
I'm just asking in general...... If a happy camper would have any bearing on the "is abuse, isn't abuse" question or the "is it worth it?" question.
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I am guessing, that a program kid who truly believes 100% that their life is better for the experience, would say that it was not abusive, in their eyes itjustified because it gave them a good outcome, the kids who suffered and are still suffering as adults, will say yes, it is very abusive
I think my childhood was abusive, I did not go to a program but I was a very unhappy child and in turn am an unhappy adult, yet i didn't suffer anywhere near what some of these kids do - so i supppose it's all down to the personal thinking of the individual
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Well thats the kind of thing I mean, the letters and phone calls, visits etc where the kids have to say they're happy or risk mental or physical torture don't paint a true picture, even when they leave (I think Psy said something about this) they still believe they have been saved when there was nothuing wrong in the first place
So how do we distinguish between such kids and the ones who realy are genuinely glad they went to a program
You really can't due to the nature of programs.
Yup. These programs, if they "suceed", reform what kids believe (not to mention their own self-image/identity). Often times, you ask them if they were abused and they will say "of course not".. but you ask them about specific details, and there is no question that they were. The only thing that changes is their definition of abuse. This is especially true of males, who find it hard to admit they "couldn't take it", as it shows "weakness". A certain macho attitude makes them think "oh... that wasn't abusive.. pfft... Pussy!!!" They might have nightmares, phobias, etc.. but they would never admit it... At least for years. Ask kids that have been out for several years and you usually get different responses.
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I am guessing, that a program kid who truly believes 100% that their life is better for the experience, would say that it was not abusive, in their eyes itjustified because it gave them a good outcome, the kids who suffered and are still suffering as adults, will say yes, it is very abusive
I think my childhood was abusive, I did not go to a program but I was a very unhappy child and in turn am an unhappy adult, yet i didn't suffer anywhere near what some of these kids do - so i supppose it's all down to the personal thinking of the individual
My daughter looks back at her old friends and feels they could have benefited from ASR and wished they could have. Not getting into detail their lives are really messed up. If she felt she had been abused, even a little, I don’t think she would recommend it to people she cared about. I listen to the stories here about how some kids were reprogrammed and it just doesn’t fit with my daughter specifically (not that it hasn’t happened to other kids or in other programs). She just accelerated her maturity, was given time to get to know herself again, reflect on what she did in the past, grow etc. and it seemed to work really well with her.
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Exhausted, there's a posting from Lacey on the restrictions thread over on the hla forum. She makes a very good point about kids alot of times sort of giving up or giving in. Some kids end up going along with what they say/want just to get them to stop what they are doing.
See at alot of these places its not enough that you go through the motions and say what they want to hear, they want you to believe it. If you dont you can bet they will make it their goal to either convince you, or break you.
Did you ever see "Cool Hand Luke"? The scene where they make him continusly fill and unfill his own grave is a pretty accurate picture of what its like. They try and keep on you till "you get your mind right." Some kids just give in and eventually believe the lie. Once out however alot of these kids snap out of it and feel like a battered wife who has finally seen the truth and left her abusive husband. Ive actually only spoken to one person who says they truly benefitted from time spent in a program. She didnt discount what went on in her program and she didnt question why others felt the way they did, but she honestly seemed to feel that without her program she would have died. I have no doubt more people like her exist, and as to whether or not she or they would have actually died I cannot attest. What I can tell you with absolute certainty is that these programs put so much energy into either convincing all these kids they really need these places, or scaring them into keeping their mouth shut. Many of the letters sent home are coerced, I after having written numerous letters that were deemed "manipulative" finally told my counselors to write a letter themselves and sign my name to it, since I clearly wasnt going to be allowed to write what I wanted. When they declined I wrote another letter full of statments like, "I have been instructed to say I am happy. I have been instructed to say this is a wonderful place." That was in fact one of the longer restrictions I had. Well worth it though.
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I am guessing, that a program kid who truly believes 100% that their life is better for the experience, would say that it was not abusive, in their eyes itjustified because it gave them a good outcome, the kids who suffered and are still suffering as adults, will say yes, it is very abusive
I think my childhood was abusive, I did not go to a program but I was a very unhappy child and in turn am an unhappy adult, yet i didn't suffer anywhere near what some of these kids do - so i supppose it's all down to the personal thinking of the individual
My daughter looks back at her old friends and feels they could have benefited from ASR and wished they could have. Not getting into detail their lives are really messed up. If she felt she had been abused, even a little, I don’t think she would recommend it to people she cared about. I listen to the stories here about how some kids were reprogrammed and it just doesn’t fit with my daughter specifically (not that it hasn’t happened to other kids or in other programs). She just accelerated her maturity, was given time to get to know herself again, reflect on what she did in the past, grow etc. and it seemed to work really well with her.
How do you think wwasps gets clients? I'll let the vets confirm this, but isn't recommending the program to others common amongst program-kids? Don't most every program bread these walking talking ads?
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[quote=""How Thought Reform works - Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D. (http://http://www.freeminds.org/psych/thought_reform.htm":1ubnxi2k)"] TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.).[/quote]
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How do you think wwasps gets clients? I'll let the vets confirm this, but isn't recommending the program to others common amongst program-kids? Don't most every program bread these walking talking ads?
I don't think that it is common. IMO, they are usually doing it because their parent got into the referral thing and when they get home their parent uses them as a showcase to show other parents the kid and have the kid explain how great the program is. I don't think this is common though. Most of the referring and all that is done in the parental arena, not in the survivor community. Not to say survivors do not do what you are talking about, but I have never seen one do it by themselves without a parent being involved or another third party. They get used. A lot of the promotional material WWASPS uses is taken during seminars, and not that many kids and families make it to the end of the program. When a facility has 500 kids and only 5-10 are graduating per couple months you know that this is a program designed to never end. Don't forget about home contracts, if a kid comes home their parent becomes the program and many kids are sent back for breaking the contract. If the kid slips up they are awoken at 1am by thugs to take them back to private prison. When a kid graduates from WWASPS, remember they have been locked up for 1.5-2 years on average, sometimes longer. They don't have any friends when they get home. Even if someone they knew happens to remember them, they are totally changed and two years behind every one else. So the kid loses all their friends, by design. Who is the kid going to start telling this private prison is a good idea? Other kids? Are they going to send themselves? No, they are simply a tool to be used by Ed Cons which is another name for program parent who took it to the next level. These kids are two years out of society, no friends or anything on that level, trapped in a home with a strict contract where the new religion is 'the program' as designed by david gilcrease. The brainwashing wears off too and only a small percentage of WWASPS kids remain fanatical about the program for very long. I think the one's who have to maintain the lies in their own mind are the one's who were put in a position to hurt others, and took it.. willingly or not, they took it and that's something they have to live with. Most kids at WWASPS had no reason to be sent anywhere, let alone a brainwashing gulag such as that. If they committed crimes they would be in jail. Most of the younger kids never even smoked marijuana or tried any real drugs. It's like pre-emptive brainwashing or some shit. I don't get it. Never did. You will have to ask the program parents. I know there's a lot of talk about parents being duped, parents have to go to a seminar when they put their kid in wwasps called discovery. It's pretty fucking obvious that the place is not legit after going to one of those, but most parents just give in and give themselves to the program at the cost of their child. I am sure that this is a point that some parents pull their kid. God bless them. They might have been fooled up until that point, but after that they should of seriously asked some questions. Not to mention the letters, but I won't get into that. Or maybe they are like my parents and never got around to going to the seminars, just because they didn't want to do them. So were they fooled because they were too lazy to do the one thing wwasps asked them to do? Doesn't matter, because they would have eaten that shit up and absolutely loved it, and that's the funny thing right there. What I see as abusive and unfit treatment for teens they see as a revolutionary idea of how to deal with teens. Kevin is the first WWASPS survivor I've seen go out on their own into the teen ref eral business. All the rest I've seen are just being dragged along by their parents. So brain damaged by their years of torment and brainwashing the only thing left in their life is to be held up like a puppet to speak the good word of gilcrease and the program. Sure you have sympathy for them, but only so much because they are converts to the side that recruits other kids to be hurt just like them. That is why this is a never ending cycle. To them we are just the unsavables who aren't really worth saving anyways, disposable people who really are the coolest one's around.. strong headed creative individuals who refuse to give up their sovereignty of mind in order to satisfy a few worldly comforts and beliefs. And they call us crazy? Please.
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I think a lot depends on the coercive style of the program. Some programs are easier to see through than others. I have seen some walking talking advertisements for Hyde years later, kids who were initially singled out for success and consequently spared some of the experiences the rest of us went through.
One case I read of was a bit different though. Brother and sister initially went, parents only had enough $ for one to continue. Hyde tells them the sister has more "leadership potential," so the brother is yanked. For the rest of his life he's trying to prove them wrong. Insists his kids go. Trouble with the spouse, they differ on this issue, and separated to boot. Youngest is a free spirit, hates the place, but dad is a control freak on this issue and insists. Mom sides with kid, underhanded custody issues ensue...
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I have seen some walking talking advertisements for Hyde years later, kids who were initially singled out for success and consequently spared some of the experiences the rest of us went through.
I call those "chosen ones"...
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sorry bout spelling errors so late :lol:
are you one of the bundys or what?