Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 12:09:34 AM
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Its not everyday when a program staff member shows up and admits to paddling the kids.
http://http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=&func=view&id=1596&catid=2[/quote]
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Since you asked, I'll reply...truthfully.
Each packet sent out contains a form which is notarized authorizing us to use corporal correction on their son. This is very very rarely used; and only as a last ditch effort. In the soon to be two years we've been open, I can count on one hand the times we've used it.
On the rare occasions it's used,I am the one who does it. I am not a strong person, and would not ever harm a child even if I was. The correction given is no where near as strong as what I received as a child....and my parents were loving, caring people. It truly hurt them more to have to spank me than it did for me to receive it.
I might add that the few times it's been used, it's been rare that it had to be used more than once on anyone.
After being in places that used and more so abused the policy, I can see where you're coming from and your need to be cautious. Had I gone through what you've been through, I would be equally if not more so cautious.
As I've mentioned before, we use privileges and loss of as our main way to discipline.
HOLY shit.. this is the place Kevin and Bill are supporting?
I sure as hell hope Bill wakes the fuck up after this. What a shithole!
Sounds like WWASP lite.
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Yes, that sounds like Christianity to me alright!!
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On the rare occasions it's used,I am the one who does it. I am not a strong person, and would not ever harm a child even if I was. The correction given is no where near as strong as what I received as a child....and my parents were loving, caring people. It truly hurt them more to have to spank me than it did for me to receive it.
That is what many abuse victims say! What crazy parents would send their kid off to someone who willingly admits to abusing kids, and being abused themselves in childhood??
Come on Kev, it's time to dump this guy, he's admitting to hitting kids right here.
:-?
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Each packet sent out contains a form which is notarized authorizing us to use corporal correction on their son. This is very very rarely used; and only as a last ditch effort. In the soon to be two years we've been open, I can count on one hand the times we've used it.
I wonder why it is allowed to sign contracts paying other people to hit and spank and put your kid in isolation when you cannot do it at home yourself to your kids. The self righteousness of this Judge Roy is sky high, he doesn't even see what he is actually admitting to!! :o :o
If this is what they admit to publicly, I'd hate to see what is going on behind closed doors.
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I can actually answer that. These people actually equate what they do w/ advanced medical procedures like surgery or chemo therapy. They honestly believe that they are endowed with a sacred science that justifies all sorts of sadistic, perverted bullshit in the course of their higher calling to save the very lives and souls of errant kids.
And, of course, the primary market for places like Magnolia are probably people who think it was a big mistake to outlaw parents beating their children.
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Who instigated this confession?
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Looks like Waypoopie did it.
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I can't and won't take responsibility for Mr. Pearce's arrogance and stupidity. Me managed that little slip of his tongue all on his own.
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"corporal CORRECTION"
That's a new spin on the term. Correction sounds 'softer' than punishment.
Reminds me of another christian program that was beating kids with tree limbs, with their parents blessings.
What's their favorite dogma... Spare the rod....Gotta beat the devil out of them.
The really scarey thing is that religious programs are exempt from licensure and state oversight. Who decided that they could be trusted to treat kids humanely and ethically?
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You know this is slightly off topic but i find it hilariously ironic when Christian schools parents etc quote that verse.
One of the few things i remember from the very tedious divinity classes i was forced to sit through at catholic school was that this verse was king soloman. Among other things that guy had about 10 wives! i wonder why they dont advocate poligamy? :rofl:
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And King Solomons adult son Rehoboam later became Israels king. He was very hated, was a terrible leader and had to flee for fear of being lynched. Apparently, Solomons parenting approach did not produce a well adjusted man.
This is one of the most misinterpreted verses in all of scripture. The "rod" was not an implement used to beat the sheep. It was used to guide the sheep away from danger.
The statement, "Spare the rod -- Spoil the child" is one that most people assume deals with corporal punishment. It is not about beating!
This saying comes from a Proverb which reads, "Those who spare the rod {shebet} hate their children, but those who love them are diligent to discipline them." (Proverbs 13:24, NRSV1). The Hebrew word here is "shebet" that can be translated scepter or staff. If a rod for beating was meant here, the more direct term of "muwcar" would have made the meaning clearer.
So, what is this "shebet"? As noted above it can mean a scepter or a staff as in a shepherd?s staff. It is a sign of authority and a tool to shepherd the sheep. According to Easton?s Bible Dictionary, "the scepter originated in the idea that the ruler was a shepherd of his people.
What does being a shepherd entail? The earliest meaning in the Bible is that a shepherd is one who cares for his/her sheep: "But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock. And he led them on safely, so that they feared not: but the sea overwhelmed their enemies." (Psalm 78:52-53) As parents we are to guide our children in the wilderness of the modern world. We need to provide them with a set of values and with ways of approaching life that has integrity and respect for others as a cornerstone. We certainly don?t do that by beating them. A shepherd who beats his/her sheep, will have no flock. The sheep will run from his/her voice and flee from his/her calling.
But what about the second part of the Proverb? That phrase about "discipline" can be also misunderstood. For some people, the only concept of discipline which comes to mind is vengeful and punishing. Its sole purpose is to break a child?s spirit. This kind of parent confuses the fear that their children have of them with respect which they think they deserve. What they do not understand is that fear drives out respect. Respect is earned through loving interaction, not with beatings.
So what does "discipline" mean? One only needs to look at the beginning of the Book of Proverbs to find the definition: "For learning about wisdom and instruction, for understanding words of insight, for gaining instruction in wise dealing, righteousness, justice, and equity..." (Proverbs 1:2-3). The Hebrew word used for discipline in the proverb is used here for instruction. Discipline has to do with teaching, not beating.
We parents are the shepherds for our children. By applying the rod of protection, guidance, care, and nurturance, we can guide them into adulthood. But if we spare the rod, children are abandoned to their own devices and limited experiences for guidance.
Discipline is about instruction, not beatings. A child cannot listen to someone he/she is afraid of. Lessons cannot be integrated by one who is in shock from having been struck. What they learn is distrust, fear, and violence.
Michael Jost, M.Div., LMSW
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Lols.. Thanks for the bible lesson. I'll post it over on CAFETY for that Judge Roy to share with the rest of his freaky fundie friends.
Or not..
I'm thinking my posting on Cafety is going to come to an end here by my own choice. To many little niggling things that bother me way to much.
It really does have a political atmosphere that fornits thankfully is free of. Here the politics are crudely delightful. Someone calls me a republican I call them a cocksucker in return, and everyone calls The Who a spastic tool.
I was walking home tonight thinking how long all of this came about, but before I elaborate on my thoughts I have to make the following acknowledgements.
There is a certain someone here that wishes their name not to be mentioned. YOU drive me nuts sometimes, but without your persistance this never would have happened.
-This person called Magnolia twice and found out oddles of information. The paddling part is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm going to let the others develop the information further and hopefully it will all go up on ISAC and HEAL.
-This person kept me motivated to persue this when it seemed like so many others had forgotten.
-This same person also pointedly reminded me again and again not to let my temper get the better of me when dealing with Bill Boyles. I have to admit my handling of Bill Boyles could have been better, but then given my tendency to completely unload on others when they are defending programs I'm surprised I didn't flame Bill right into oblivion. Bill nearly had a lemon party waiting for him more than once in his pm box.
-I want to thank Oz Girl who was all roaring to go about being my back up when Judge Roy showed up on Cafety. She actually made an international call to the place and confirmed for a 3rd time that they indeed use corporal punishment.
I was chatting with a friend of mine just a few minutes ago about the whole thing on cafety and she asked me why I wasn't going to persue it any further. My response was simple, "I did my part and now its time for others to take up the charge."
Yes my good friends the rest is up to you. Blow the doors off that place and set the children free. My part in this is finished.
When I was teaching my last class I was reminded of Magnolia their buttwhomping ways. I only have 3 students for this class so its pretty informal and we spend most of the time talking. The owner of the school walked through the door just before class and had ordered me to hit the students if they didn't talk more English. After nodding and dismissing him we went ahead with the lesson. When the lesson was finished I told the students, "Do you think I would actually hit you?"
The only girl of the trio said, "No, because you told us the first day of class that hitting people is wrong."
I replied, "But the school owner said I must hit you if you don't speak English."
The girl said, "You still won't hit us."
Well she was and is right. Something in each and everyone of us must give at some point in our lives. In my own life I came up in a violently abusive household. My perception of a normal childhood was so skewed in favor of routine beatings delivered by both of my parents that it still affects me to this day. Though certainly nothing like it used to bother me. Just recently I walked passed the school next to mine that is a Math Academy and saw a student getting beat with a meter stick. I turned to push open the front door of the school to say something(Big plate glass doors) when the teacher stopped and looked at me. Apparently the look on my face was enough to convince her that I wasn't stopping by for a cup of tea. Needless to say the beating stopped and the young man was allowed to hobble off on his way(Corporal Punishment is very legal and very over used in Korea). Looking back at my employment with Three Springs I'm not at all surprised that I ended up using brute force tactics to control my group.
We are the product of our environments. At Eckerd's such brute force wasn't used. On very rare occasions I saw restraints happen when they shouldn't have and those ended up being addressed by the program directors. In two years of dealing with juvenile delinquints I ended up performing 4 restraints. The rest of the time I managed to avoid those situations by using common sense and building good relationships with the young men in my groups. My last group was filled with the lowest functioning members of all the other groups. It was decided to keep all the really low functioning kids in one group for whatever reason.
Despite this my group never had much in the way of fights, restraints, or anything else. The worst those Juveniles managed to do was run each other's underwear up the flag pole in the middle of their campsite. I found out all about the incident the next day when I returned to work and promptly gave them a verbal reminder to take pictures for me the next time. The program directors wanted a stronger reaction from me regarding the incident, but my point was very simple in the fact that they were boys. Sometimes teenage boys are known to do goofy things like run each others underwear up the flag pole. While Eckerd's was a decently controlled environment there are still problems with the program that like all programs need to be address.
Please don't think I'm endorsing the Eckerd's program, because I'm not. I will elaborate on what I believe is the underlying problems with the Eckerd model of wilderness therapy at a later time.
Back on topic here..
At Three Springs I was thrust right back into the midst of a very violent situation. The old saying, "You can take the boy out of the country, but not the country out of the boy," can be changed to, "You can take the abuse away from the boy, but you can't take it out of him." That was me in 2002 in the middle of Alabama with a group of 10 to 12 year old children. The violence I resorted to to control my group seemed completely normal to me. It wasn't violence like I was exposed to when I was a kid. No punching, no kicking, no choking, no slapping, no whippings, no paddlings, no kids was nearly thrown out of a moving vehicle, no sexual abuse, and definitely no firearms were ever pointed at any of the kids in any of my groups. My actions towards my groups are the palest palest weakest form of what I experienced. It was still wrong no matter how pale the form. However, never once did I actually question it. The outrageous number of restraints, the unreasonable consquences, the humiliation, the verbal abuse, and the mind games all seemed perfectly normal to me. My justification was it wasn't anything like what I experienced, so what the hell where the kids complaining about?
It is funny, in a very sad way, now that I look back on it. Here I was dealing with troubled kids when I was more troubled than almost all of them put together. Yet from that situation I can say I took away a great number of things. First and foremost I now believe more than anything that abuse never goes away. I also endorse the idea that children who are abused have a higher chance of being abusive adults. I used to think it was more a choice, but now I fully believe in the environment a child is raised in having a huge factor in that process. Now that I've had a two year period to reflect on Three Springs I've come to terms with my own role in the program:
Programs aren't divided by staff and residents. Staff is another stage of the program.
Programs don't just seek to warp the minds of kids they go for their employee's minds also.
I've also come to understand the WWASP middle ground movement a great deal more from dealing with Bill Boyles and Kevin August. I really do believe that Bill isn't a sell out. Let me repeat that: I really do believe that Bill Boyles isn't a sell out. He may have shown poor judgement in associating with Kevin August, but then again name the decade that you've managed to with no lapses in judgement. Bill Boyles may have decided to contest my claims on CAFETY out of misquided loyalty to a fellow survivor in the form of Kevin August.
I believe the sense of loyalty Bill feels to Kevin is to be applauded. Not the misguided part of the loyalty, but certain it never hurts to acknowledge a person who didn't run from defending a fellow survivor and from all appearances a friend of his. I could say a great deal more about Bill, but I think my above comments sum up what I feel at heart. Hopefully Bill will learn a thing or two from the events that have transpired. One can only hope he does anyway.
WWASP survivors aren't unique, but they are numerous. They have been abused in such large numbers and in recent years by WWASP that their stories can't help but pop up all over the internet. These stories are so appalling that is it any surprise that a facility that isn't any where near as hard as their own would seem attractive?
Not at all if you take the time to think about it. I'm waiting to see what Bill says now that the corporal punishment part of Magnolia has been confirmed before I put him in the WWASP middle Ground tendency catergory.
Kevin is another paradigm all together. I really do think he knew about the paddling at Magnolia all along. What this says about him is up to your own interpretation.
Either way thus endeth the rant. Needed to get a few things off my chest and hopefully for the poor buggers who read this gibberish it makes some sense.
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You know this is slightly off topic but i find it hilariously ironic when Christian schools parents etc quote that verse.
One of the few things i remember from the very tedious divinity classes i was forced to sit through at catholic school was that this verse was king soloman. Among other things that guy had about 10 wives! i wonder why they dont advocate poligamy? :rofl:
Actually - Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. First Kings, chapter 11.
Truth Searcher - thanks for the post - I was glad to read it.
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King Solomon is a mac daddy. How did the man ever find the time? Or did most of his kids look alot like his body guards?
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And Judge Roy still yammers on...... You know I think those faggots on cafety are gonna build him a shrine. They impress me as being a bunch of weak willed pussies.
Fuck em all.
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Judge Roy Bean, Jimmy Pearce is a LIAR.
The Magnolia Form that parents sign:
"Magnolia Christian Center Addition/Modification of Policy Procedure"
reads as follows:
"Magnolia Christian Center offers parents the option of having corporal punishment used on their son as the need arises."
Stop your LIES Judge Roy Bean! Your form states CORPORAL PUNISHMENT.....not "corporal correction."
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Seems Judge Roy Bean is still chipping away at Kev August on the Anti-WWASP forum: The Judge posted on March 26, 2007, 'I'm working with a father now...I think Kev referred him...."
Guess Kev must think this "corporal punishment" is just a-okay.
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Thats fucked up...
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TSW- excellent post. Thanks.
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TSW- excellent post. Thanks.
Thanks for reading it.
The entire middle ground movement really is something that depresses me. I find it frightening that people who have been beaten like dogs could even give one small scrap of an inch in anyway what so ever for pain compliance in a program.
Yet sadly.. It makes sense...
Not much can top what some of those WWASP survivors had to endure. Anything less in their eyes must seem normal. The overall sense of right and wrong is just another fucking casualty to the war against programs.
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find it frightening that people who have been beaten like dogs could even give one small scrap of an inch in anyway what so ever for pain compliance in a program.
This is somewhat of a myth. Not all kids going through WWASPS schools are physically abused. Go read Kevin's story he posted on his forum. He spent 12 months there, made it to level 5, never had any problems, kept his head down and made it out without ever seeing the inside walls of isolation, worksheets or the back hand of a staff member. This is according to his own story.
I am not suggesting what he went through was not physchologically difficult, but you have to remember some kids do not fight the program, or even accept it willingly and actively work the program, even at the cost of OTHER KIDS in the program. See a pattern here?
I was one of those few motherfuckers who fight the whole time I am there, and use THAT as a way to get out. Some kids choose to accept the program ideology and use that in order to get out, to 'work the program'.
But please don't think every single kid going through a WWASPS school is being physically abused and treated like crap. If that were true, then there would be no discussion at the WWASPS survivor forums about how bad these programs are, because we would all know. Unfortunately, only a smaller portion of us know the TRUE horrors of what goes on behind closed doors in the dark back rooms of programs.
I would say many kids never see this side of the program. The one's who were treated not as bad seems to me, are the one's who abide by this middle ground philosophy. Because, in their experience, the people are not evil child abusers, so much as they are to some of us who were on the receiving end of the punishments that many of the other students didn't even know existed.
Go check out "Spring Creekers" myspace group if you want to laugh, and maybe cry for a while. The discussions going on are nothing short of pathetic. Many kids embrace the program, and you will be amazed how many of them posting over there still use program speak to each other. They still confront each other in the same way they did at the program. The Jr Staff still try to boss around the same lower levels they did while at the program. It's sickening.
I don't post there. I rarely post here anymore. But I had to make a simple point, that not every kid going in a WWASPS school is a victim. Some of them become the abusers. If this fact is glossed over in any way, or not told, then the middle ground movement will not make any sense. To those of us who refused the program outright, and were punished severely for it, it all makes perfect sense. And it is no less equally disgusting than what I saw while locked up. This whole industry and it's aftermath is disgusting. That is why I suggest kids don't even look behind, and just move on. So they never find these continuation of program websites, because sadly many get sucked in and never truly leave the program.
Yet sadly.. It makes sense...
Not much can top what some of those WWASP survivors had to endure. Anything less in their eyes must seem normal. The overall sense of right and wrong is just another fucking casualty to the war against programs.
"There is no right and wrong"... this is a poster hanging on the wall during the first seminar, and it's drilled into your head. The theory goes that there is no right and wrong, only action and reaction. So the reason why all of us kids were locked up in a shit hole under the control of a brainwash fanatic is because of our poor choices, how simple could that be!?
Some WWASPS kids had to 'endure' harming other kids psycholoogically by making fun of the weaker and younger kids and getting their jollies off by being a Jr Staff and sucking the program's dick. To me they deserve no sympathy. If the kids only worked together to actively fight the program it would be one thing. If they tortured kids if they worked the program it would be one thing. But many of the kids show up and do whatever it takes (including fucking over their friends) in order to move up. And some really enjoy their power and are upset when they graduate and have to live normal life because they don't have that power over other people. Those are the fucked up ones. The ones who accept the program for what it is, and then get out and treat people like they did in the program. They are in for a lonely life, stupid fuckers.
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Thank you for enlightening me with your post. I've been looking at the WWASP lot for sometime now and haven't been able to make heads or tails out of the lot of you.
Let me clarify: I didn't intend to paint every wwasp grad or survivor with the same brush. I do fully realize that not everyone was or is abused physically by wwasp. I will maintain that your very physical presence in such an environment is mentally and emotionally abusive.
Either way.. I'm watching the thread on Cafety with Keen interest. I've bowed out of it as I was very certain that I was going to be seeing a bit of accomodation of Judge Roy.
I still suggest that those of you have something to say about the issue to go say it on Cafety. It only takes a full 2 minutes to set up an account.
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Oh yeah thanks for stopping by. Its nice to see you still haven't lost your wits.
How is the weather in Cali treating you?
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I just wanted to point out some facts is all. That two different kids can be at the same facility, at the same time, and have two completely different experiences, even with the same staff. The difference between these two kids is not the color of their skin, or how much money their parents have, it's decided by whether or not you either willingly accept the program out of ignorance or fear genuine acceptance, or do a good enough job bullshitting the staff. Some kids I noticed were treated rather 'well'. I think of the WWASPS survivor community like the Nazi Jewish Death Camp survivors. I am not saying our experience comes CLOSE to the experience the Jews went through. But after the Jews got out, think about all the Jews who took up jobs removing dead bodies from the gas chambers, or as an assistant to a Nazi officer, or as girlfriend to a Nazi soldier. Now that is not one cohesive community when they get out. Some of those Jews will feel that their brethren sold them down the river. If there weren't Jewish spies relaying information to the top, rebellion might have been a real possibility.
If you take a look at Spring Creekers myspace group you will see a certain number of strong online personalities, who were Jr Staff their at the time, still trying to control the conversation all this time later. Or trying to cover up their guilt for having had a hand in the abuse of other kids?? I would feel bad too if I were them, and try to keep the lies going. THey take a personal interest in KNOWING that no abuse occured. When someone posts there taht they were abused, they get attacked. Why can't we all agree on the abuse that occured there?
The answer is simple. Because many kids had an active role in that abuse, and for them to accept that it happened would mean they are taking responsibility for accepting a role in an abusive system.
My final point before I shut up. Just because a kid went through a WWASPS camp, does not make them some kind of repository of knowledge and information regarding child abuse and this industry. If anything it skews our perspective and we accept child abuse, where if we had never experienced it first hand, we would not accept it as a legitimate tool. Only the abused accept abuse as a legitimate tool to use on children. Because it was done to them(us) and we turned out well, so what would it hurt to use the same method on other kids? It's all they(we) know. The arrogance of myself and other WWASPS survivors is a bit extreme because we feel our experience gives us insight into an entire industry and base our decisions and stances off of that small little bit. Parents asking abuse victims where to send their kid is stupid. Parents asking me where to send their kid is stupid. Parents asking Kev where to send kids is stupid.
The more the internet thing goes on, the more confusing the subject gets because now a thousand kids are posting contradictory stories. It's not because all those things didn't happen. There is no ONE TRUTH to what goes on at programs. The difference is simply in the way the kid reacted to the program. SICK SHIT ISNT IT? The fact parents and even program survivors don't see this shows me that the program never ends for most people. Especially the ones who bought into it at the time.
TSW, dont give us credit for anything just for being WWASPS survivors, there was a reason why we were there probably. We are not experts on this industry, only on the small portion of our own experience.
Now the fight continues, the fight over what 'truth' will prevail as to what went on at the program. Even the truth in this case is negotiable. I know my truth... and that's all that matters anymore.
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Fair enough and very well said.
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http://www.torturedkids.com/images/magnoliaspanking.jpg (http://www.torturedkids.com/images/magnoliaspanking.jpg)
LICKS???? no way...
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Spanking teenagers with a paddle?
Please tell me this is all some sort of sick joke??? Please!!
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Well, JUDGE ROYBEAN.
Just where on that form does it say "CORPORAL CORRECTIONS?"
It clearly states: "CORPORAL PUNISHMENT."
This is sickeniing.
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Mississippi/MS. CODE ANN. 37-11-57 (1999 Supp.)
37-11-57. Immunity of school personnel from liability for carrying out action in enforcing rules regarding control, discipline, suspension and expulsion of students .
"(1) Except in the case of excessive force or cruel and unusual punishment, a teacher, assistant teacher, principal, or an assistant principal acting within the course and scope of his employment shall not be liable for any action carried out in conformity with state or federal laws or regulations of the State Board of Education or the local board regarding the control, discipline, suspension and expulsion of students. The local school board shall provide any necessary legal defense to a teacher, assistant teacher, principal or assistant principal acting within the course and scope of his employment in any action which may be filed against school personnel. A school district shall be entitled to reimbursement for legal fees and expenses from its employee if a court finds that the act of the employee was outside the course and scope of his employment, or that the employee was acting with criminal intent. Any action by a school district against its employee and any action by the employee against the school district for necessary legal fees and expenses shall be tried to the court in the same suit brought against the school employee.
(2) Corporal punishment administered in a reasonable manner, or any reasonable action to maintain control and discipline of students taken by a teacher, assistant teacher, principal or assistant principal acting within the scope of his employment or function and in accordance with any state or federal laws or rules or regulations of the State Board of Education or the local school board does not constitute negligence or child abuse. No teacher, assistant teacher, principal or assistant principal so acting shall be held liable in a suit for civil damages alleged to have been suffered by a student as a result of the administration of corporal punishment, or the taking of action to maintain control and discipline of a student, unless the court determines that the teacher, assistant teacher, principal or assistant principal acted in bad faith or with the malicious purpose or in a manner exhibiting a wanton and willful disregard of human rights or safety. For the purposes of this subsection, ?corporal punishment? means the reasonable use of physical force or physical contact by a teacher, assistant teacher, principal or assistant principal, as may be necessary to maintain discipline, to enforce a school rule, for self-protection or for the protection of other students from disruptive students."
This is why Judge Bean knows he is untouchable and can brag about his child abuse online. He is granted immunity, by law, from the state. What he is doing to children is legal in his state.
States Banning Corporal Punishment
State Year Present Statute
Alaska 1989 AK Statutes Section 04AAC 07.010
California 1986 CA Education Code Section 49000-49001
Connecticut 1989 CT Penal Code Sec. 53a-18
Delaware 2003 DE Education Code Sec. 702
Hawaii 1973 HI Rev. Statutes Sec. 302A-1141
Illinois 1993 IL Compiled Statutes, School Code Sec. 5/24-24
Iowa 1989 IA School Code Sec. 280.21
Maine 1975 ME Criminal Code Sec. 106
Maryland 1993 MD Code Education Sec. 7-306
Massachusetts 1971 MA General Laws , Education Sec. 37G
Michigan 1989 MI Compiled Laws, Rev. School Code Sec. 380.1312
Minnesota 1989 MN Statutes Sec. 121A.58
Montana 1991 MT Code Annotated Sec. 20-4-302
Nebraska 1988 NE Rev. Statutes Sec. 79-295
Nevada 1993 NV Rev. Statutes Sec 392.4633
New Hampshire 1983 NH Rev. Statutes Ann. Sec. 627:6
New Jersey 1867 NJ Permanent Statutes, Education 18A:6-1
New York 1985 NY Regulations of the Board of Regents, 8 NYCRR 19.5
North Dakota 1989 ND Century Code, Elem. and Sec. Education Sec. 15.1-19-02
Oregon 1989 OR Rev. Statutes Sec. 339.250
Pennsylvania 2005 22 PA Code CHS. 7 and l2, Sec. l2.5
Rhode Island 1977 Wolfweseder v. Woonsocket, Commissioner of Education
South Dakota 1990 SD Codified Laws, Sec. 13-32-2
Utah 2006 UT Administrative Rule R277-608
Vermont 1985 VT Statutes, Education Sec. 1161a
Virginia 1989 VA Code, Education Sec. 22.1-279.1
Washington 1993 WA Administrative Code 180-40-235
West Virginia 1994 WV Code Sec. 18A-5-1 (e)
Wisconsin 1988 WI Statute Sec. 118.31
29 states have outlawed this type of public humiliation and physical abuse of children in the classroom.
There is absolutely no coincidence this program is located where it is. Chilling for a parent to send their child out of state to skirt the laws of abuse, absolutely sickening.
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If Kevin August made it through his confinement at the WWASP facility "with no problems" then what's his problem with WWASP? ?
There's a lot of reasons for his ANTI-WWASP stance.
And there should be A REASON that Kevin August would never want another child sent to a program!
ONE REASON: is no child should be hit with a wooden paddle!
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I attended a school where use of a paddle was a regular event. Most boys got paddled at some point in Jr. High and again at some point in High School... not all, but most. Actually, I can't imagine anyone made it though two years of PE without getting paddled. (The Coaches paddled more than any one else and they usually did it publicly, which even at the time we knew was a violation of the letter of the rules -- but everyone knew it happened and no one objected.)
"Licks" as we called them usually consisted of 3 swats. Sometimes you'd get just one. Really get in trouble and you could, in theory, I think, get as many as 10. I never heard, however, of anyone getting 10... or at least not that I believed.
I remember getting 3 licks on at least a couple of occasions. I was far from a "bad" kid, but I also got bored easily and it got me into trouble. It hurt like hell and left light bruises on my butt that lasted two to three days. When I got five licks once (for "fighting" -- which consisted of me getting punched in the gut by another guy who was angry at me for some reason I now can't remember), my butt had a dark black bruise right across the sit spot that took almost a week to fade. When I sat down for the next day or so, it was painful. Which, actually, I remember the Vice Principal promising me. I quote: "I intend to make sure you remember not to fight in my school every time you sit down for the rest of the week." Promise made. Promise kept -- more or less.
I also witnessed guys getting paddled in gym. Most guys would have eyes filled with tears after being paddled. Sometimes, they would yell out loud. Most tried to tough it out. Occasionally, someone would stand up and grab his butt or run away from the paddle and the Coach would have some of the bigger, more athletic kids drag the kid back for the rest of his punishment plus one or two for running.
I know girls sometimes got paddled... but not nearly as much as boys. And the public paddling was in gym, which was gender-segregated. (Which was, evidently, a somewhat old fashioned custom my school kept after others gave it up.)
Now, having said all that... and acknowledging that hitting kids as a way of teaching them something is, in my opinion, ineffective at best and abusive at worst....
My school was a high performing public high school. My Middle School (or Jr. High, whatever) was somewhat less high performing, but still catered primarily to a middle-class, regular student body. This was not a "program" school. And, yes, this still goes on, to a greater or lesser degree, in many public schools in this country.
I'm not in any way trying to say that what is happening is okay. I'm just trying to point out that this practice is far more widespread than you seem to think. 22 states still permit corporal punishment in schools.
I guess I'm just saying that you can't expect everyone to be on the same page as you with regard to corporal punishment (ie. hitting kids). Which is shame, but is the real context in which you are trying to persuade others as to the abusive nature of these schools.
I hope this post is taken in the spirit in which it is offered. I've seen what you all can do when you don't like a post. ;)
:beat:
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Thank you for your reply.
I believe that the use of corporal punishment is reduced, but there is long way to go. The most important shift came when parents began so sue the schools. If my boy was assaulted and just defended himself I would sue if the police so to say acted as police and judge, but fortunately it is forbidden to use corporal punishment in my country. (Even me as parent will land in jail if I hit my children, which I also find OK).
Project Nospank (http://http://www.nospank.net/) has been fighting the use of corporal punishment everywhere. A source we also have used when to find articles among the area we target is World Corporal Punishment Research (http://http://www.corpun.com/). The last one includes a number of student handbooks from various schools which have not updated their policies to this millennium.
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:timeout:
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I attended a school where use of a paddle was a regular event. Most boys got paddled at some point in Jr. High and again at some point in High School... not all, but most. Actually, I can't imagine anyone made it though two years of PE without getting paddled. (The Coaches paddled more than any one else and they usually did it publicly, which even at the time we knew was a violation of the letter of the rules -- but everyone knew it happened and no one objected.)
"Licks" as we called them usually consisted of 3 swats. Sometimes you'd get just one. Really get in trouble and you could, in theory, I think, get as many as 10. I never heard, however, of anyone getting 10... or at least not that I believed.
I remember getting 3 licks on at least a couple of occasions. I was far from a "bad" kid, but I also got bored easily and it got me into trouble. It hurt like hell and left light bruises on my butt that lasted two to three days. When I got five licks once (for "fighting" -- which consisted of me getting punched in the gut by another guy who was angry at me for some reason I now can't remember), my butt had a dark black bruise right across the sit spot that took almost a week to fade. When I sat down for the next day or so, it was painful. Which, actually, I remember the Vice Principal promising me. I quote: "I intend to make sure you remember not to fight in my school every time you sit down for the rest of the week." Promise made. Promise kept -- more or less.
I also witnessed guys getting paddled in gym. Most guys would have eyes filled with tears after being paddled. Sometimes, they would yell out loud. Most tried to tough it out. Occasionally, someone would stand up and grab his butt or run away from the paddle and the Coach would have some of the bigger, more athletic kids drag the kid back for the rest of his punishment plus one or two for running.
I know girls sometimes got paddled... but not nearly as much as boys. And the public paddling was in gym, which was gender-segregated. (Which was, evidently, a somewhat old fashioned custom my school kept after others gave it up.)
Now, having said all that... and acknowledging that hitting kids as a way of teaching them something is, in my opinion, ineffective at best and abusive at worst....
My school was a high performing public high school. My Middle School (or Jr. High, whatever) was somewhat less high performing, but still catered primarily to a middle-class, regular student body. This was not a "program" school. And, yes, this still goes on, to a greater or lesser degree, in many public schools in this country.
I'm not in any way trying to say that what is happening is okay. I'm just trying to point out that this practice is far more widespread than you seem to think. 22 states still permit corporal punishment in schools.
I guess I'm just saying that you can't expect everyone to be on the same page as you with regard to corporal punishment (ie. hitting kids). Which is shame, but is the real context in which you are trying to persuade others as to the abusive nature of these schools.
I hope this post is taken in the spirit in which it is offered. I've seen what you all can do when you don't like a post. ;)
:beat:
That sounds pretty horrible. The reason why "program" schools that paddle concern me is that in many cases, particularly this one, so many other practices are questionable at best that adding corporal punishment to the mix and being open about makes me question what else the boys may be subjected to. There is a guy called Jordan Ryak who opposes corporal punishment as well as this industry. You might be interested in his sight. He acknowledges that corporal punishment is still an issue in many American public schools. He also taught in australia in the late 70s when some schools still used the "cane" (we never had paddles) and was pretty instrumental in the move to outlaw it. This was in the day when a smack across the hand or knuckles for misbehavior was considered a normal part of school life. As far as i know it was considered a bit pervy for teachers to smack kids asses, though im sure a belting across the hands with a cane was hardly a day at the beach either.
http://www.nospank.net/ (http://www.nospank.net/)