Post by: Anonymous on March 24, 2007, 07:54:38 PM
I new it was wrong to take him from home.
Energy I spent didn?t matter one bit
For he does not care not even one bit.
So I sit like a fool feeling bad for the cause
Was I wrong ? apparently- every little bit.
I tried so hard that it hurt my family
Now I just sit hiding my fanny.
You can all sit here and judge from afar
But I tried and I tried
I guess I went to far.
He just can?t stay home and treat with respect.
He won?t go to school because it is ?gay?
And those kids are losers he?d rather say.
A look in the mirror will scare him some day.
I will miss him, I know I will
He?ll be gone forever
I think it?s his will.
When those men come to take him away in the night
I will have been cut off
I guess I had no right.
I?m sorry for him that he can?t keep it straight
It?s only a short time but it won?t be great.
I Luv u Buddy
And I Hope and Pray that I will see u again one day.
Post by: Anonymous on March 24, 2007, 08:16:49 PM
Its hard to say cause of your convoluted thinking patern. I dont beleive for a moment you are a real parent. unless you are on the drug s you imply your kids on.
Though as your title is apt becasue "just becsue i needed to" reveals that with you ,just like the rest of the parents who put their kids in program, that it is only about your perceived needs not your childs
Im not going to take my time saying much to debunk your ramble. Just realize if you are for real you are ushering your child down the path toward insanity.
They are going to try get your kid to be more "respectful" by inflicteing physiological brain damage on him. You are sending him away for a lobotomy. Any docility you may see in him will be from the result of him essentially suffering a stroke. People who get strokes dont talk back much because they cant speak.
Your child isnt there to perform for you, but for you to provide him an environment where his brain can develop in a an healthy ordinary way. You are sending his normal healthy brain however annoying to a place where his brain will be destroyed...for your own gratifications.
This doesnt turn out predictably. Your child may end up permanently mentally ill. After being rendered mentally ill, die as he no longer has a brain with which he can regulate his behavior or perceive accurately, by suicide, overdose ,slowed reaction linked mortality. He may end up in prison. He may just never fufill his potential as a human being as humans have a limited # of years to develop and if he spend his suffering and then working his way back to sanity that doesnt really leave time for the good stuff.
And if that happens of course youll blame it not on what uve done to him. But becasue you as helpful as you were he was just too sick to help.
Jesus, id say how do you sleep at night. But as I dont beleive you are real and if you are too mentally ill to understand what you are doing whats the point.
what do u think, is this fellow for real? :o
Post by: TheWho on March 24, 2007, 08:38:37 PM
Post by: try another castle on March 24, 2007, 08:59:59 PM
I see a future in the greeting card industry for you.... as an intern.
Post by: Anonymous on March 24, 2007, 09:43:13 PM
I?m a relative, not the parents making the decisions.
Thank You to The WHO, you pretty much have it correct
Except it?s a been there done that situation, wilderness then
Therapeutic boarding school. He?d been gone for nine months,
Home now for three month and won?t follow simple rules.
The parents are talking about sending him back.
My heart just breaks because for eight of those nine months he was gone I fought every day to bring him home. Now I feel at a loss with no ground to stand on.
Post by: Anonymous on March 24, 2007, 09:54:05 PM
Sorry about your family's problems. I wish this young man good luck; and hope his parents reconsider and get him help locally, and keep him at home..
Post by: TheWho on March 24, 2007, 10:00:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
For what it?s worth,
I?m a relative, not the parents making the decisions.
Thank You to The WHO, you pretty much have it correct
Except it?s a been there done that situation, wilderness then
Therapeutic boarding school. He?d been gone for nine months,
Home now for three month and won?t follow simple rules.
The parents are talking about sending him back.
My heart just breaks because for eight of those nine months he was gone I fought every day to bring him home. Now I feel at a loss with no ground to stand on.
Sorry you got prejudged, guest, most posters just move on after their first post because of their initial welcome (like you received) Pretty angry bunch around here, especially if you don?t agree with their point of view or advice.
Speaking of advice? stick around?you may get some suggestions that may help you and your family member out.
Post by: Anonymous on March 24, 2007, 11:22:49 PM
I thought u were a parent trying to display how feeling and deep you were :oops: It makes more sense now. You are a very caring person. I wish id had a relative like u in program
Who" is a john wayne gacy type who spends his whole day on this forum legitimzing child torture and explaining why who children who run in front of buses screaming "i cant take ASW anymore"(or whatever program they are in) so desperate to escape the pain of their torture they do what only Jews in concentration camps have been known to do, by throwing themselves on the modern day equivilent of the electrical fence, have nothing to do with program
he refers to child deaths as data points that need to continue being collected by putting more children in program and waiting for them to die
The child isnt functioning becasue he is too mentally ill to function. I use that term loosely. Eseentially after being tortured for so long by methods developed by cults and totalitarian brainwashing facilities in order to reduce the child to a nub best suited for financial exploitation the child no longer has a normally functioning mind.
Not to mention being raised by people who will essentially kill you if they feel like it doesnt really allow u to function normally. Happened to me. You might want to try to invene before the child kills themselves, happened to my sibling. Just drive over pick thim up.rescue him
have the kid testify about how abusive the program is. Let him stay at your house. Sometimes someone who understands who cares and who wil let them stay there in saftey is all a person needs to recover from the brain damage. Sue the program get big bucks for u and the kid. You both deserve it, and the monsters who torture deserve a bit of justice
Post by: Anonymous on March 24, 2007, 11:24:03 PM
I thought u were a parent trying to display how feeling and deep you were :oops: It makes more sense now. You are a very caring person. I wish id had a relative like u in program
Who" is a john wayne gacy type who spends his whole day on this forum legitimzing child torture and explaining why who children who run in front of buses screaming "i cant take ASW anymore"(or whatever program they are in) so desperate to escape the pain of their torture they do what only Jews in concentration camps have been known to do, by throwing themselves on the modern day equivilent of the electrical fence, have nothing to do with program
he refers to child deaths as data points that need to continue being collected by putting more children in program and waiting for them to die
The child isnt functioning becasue he is too mentally ill to function. I use that term loosely. Eseentially after being tortured for so long by methods developed by cults and totalitarian brainwashing facilities in order to reduce the child to a nub best suited for financial exploitation the child no longer has a normally functioning mind.
Not to mention being raised by people who will essentially kill you if they feel like it doesnt really allow u to function normally. Happened to me. You might want to try to invene before the child kills themselves, happened to my sibling. Just drive over pick thim up.rescue him
have the kid testify about how abusive the program is. Let him stay at your house. Sometimes someone who understands who cares and who wil let them stay there in saftey is all a person needs to recover from the brain damage. Sue the program get big bucks for u and the kid. You both deserve it, and the monsters who torture deserve a bit of justice
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2007, 07:04:05 AM
All that matters to him are his friends and these aren?t the type of friends you hoped your child would choose, thieves and druggies who are or have been in jail.
The parents tried to help him at home for at least three years before they sent him away. He was told what the consequences to his actions would be and he just doesn?t seem to care.
?The child isn?t functioning because he is too mentally ill to function.?
How do you reach someone who doesn?t seem to want to be reached?
I would appreciate any advice
Thanks in advance
Post by: TheWho on March 25, 2007, 07:47:08 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I tried to intervene, I offered to let him live with me but he refused.
All that matters to him are his friends and these aren?t the type of friends you hoped your child would choose, thieves and druggies who are or have been in jail.
The parents tried to help him at home for at least three years before they sent him away. He was told what the consequences to his actions would be and he just doesn?t seem to care.
?The child isn?t functioning because he is too mentally ill to function.?
How do you reach someone who doesn?t seem to want to be reached?
I would appreciate any advice
Thanks in advance
Sounds like you are a good advocate for him?.has he seen a therapist locally? A good therapist can recommend a good next step and work with the family.??.I can empathize with the childs' parents also, especially if the problem has been going on for 3 years, his friends don?t seem to be the best for him or helping him move forward with his life and believe me it will only get worse if this is left unchecked.
If you could get him alone and try to talk to him to see what is going on in his head or get him (or his parents to get him) to see a therapist and have him evaluated this might reveal what is going on and determine if he has a diagnosis that may need treatment. Going to a TBS should be a last resort step.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2007, 08:34:16 AM
Once you are in a position to get him out and have him stay with you, you need to work with the rest of the family - set some rules, they will have to be very strong and say no to him coming home & you will have strict rules & boundaries that you MUST stick to - its the only way he is going to know that his choices are his & the conseqences that go with it are also his
good luck!
Exhausted
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2007, 08:46:44 AM
And I can't log in again!
Exhausted
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2007, 08:18:40 PM
He refuses to see a therapist now because he says he has nothing to say.
I?ve talked to him alone and he says he?s sick of talking and that everything is fine.
?Just leave me alone?
I went to his house today to see his behavior and he acted like a shit head.
I think part of his issue is that he has no respect for anyone.
They?ve tried the consequences for his actions but he basically says
YOU CAN?T MAKE ME? and he?s right.
I can understand understand why his parents want to send him away,
He treats them worse than dirt
But being that I don?t believe in these programs can a former programmie
Or anyone suggest something else to try.
Post by: TheWho on March 25, 2007, 08:48:50 PM
When talking to my daughter (after she graduated) she knew the final option was coming also and she said looking back that part of her wanted someone to take over her life for her ?.so he may not want to work on himself he may be just waiting for the next step or even forcing their hand?.there is so much we don?t know about him and his situation that it is difficult to give sound advice here.
I really hope this boy gets the help he needs and deserves........ keep us informed of his progress
Post by: Antigen on March 25, 2007, 08:56:21 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The parents tried to help him at home for at least three years before they sent him away. He was told what the consequences to his actions would be and he just doesn?t seem to care.
Maybe he doesn't believe you? Or maybe the consequences you fear if he does things his way don't bother him as much as the consequences he forsees if he does things your way.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2007, 09:07:17 PM
I'm not sure I understand
Are you saying he wants to go back to a TBS?
Post by: Antigen on March 25, 2007, 09:07:53 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I went to his house today to see his behavior and he acted like a shit head.
I think part of his issue is that he has no respect for anyone.
Well, if you came to my house on the weekend to observe my behavior, I'd be pretty shitty to you too.
Quote
But being that I don?t believe in these programs can a former programmie
Or anyone suggest something else to try.
Yeah, instead of trying to coerce and threaten him into adopting your view of things, try earning his respect.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2007, 09:17:24 PM
Great advice!! first of all I don't coerce and threaten and I'll be sure to let him know it's OK to steal cars, sell drugs and not attend school.
other then that I don't want to go there with you
LYMI
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2007, 09:28:46 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
It sounds like he may know that going back is inevitable, not wanting to talk to therapists, especially with statements like ?You cant make me?. Which is a challenge or call for help in it self. Not sure what his first stay was like or where his parents heads are at right now or what they told him but it sounds like he has pretty much conceded to what ever is coming next. Maybe going back to a TBS is better, in his eyes, than living with his parents.
When talking to my daughter (after she graduated) she knew the final option was coming also and she said looking back that part of her wanted someone to take over her life for her ?.so he may not want to work on himself he may be just waiting for the next step or even forcing their hand?.there is so much we don?t know about him and his situation that it is difficult to give sound advice here.
I really hope this boy gets the help he needs and deserves........ keep us informed of his progress
Thanks WHO, I do appreciate your input and i'm sorry I lost it with the last poster
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2007, 09:36:57 PM
Post by: Antigen on March 25, 2007, 09:40:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
"Maybe he doesn't believe you? Or maybe the consequences you fear if he does things his way don't bother him as much as the consequences he forsees if he does things your way"
I'm not sure I understand
Are you saying he wants to go back to a TBS?
No, the talk was of death, insanity or jail--the contrived consequences they scare all the parents with, not the contrived consequence they sell them. Maybe this kid has just been through enough, paid his ticket and had about enough of working the program on himself. I have to say, if all the adults in his life are sending him the message that his brain could use a little more washing then I don't blame him for being shitty to the whole lot of you.
Just put yourself in his shoes and see what the world looks like from there.
Post by: Antigen on March 25, 2007, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Great advice!! first of all I don't coerce and threaten and I'll be sure to let him know it's OK to steal cars, sell drugs and not attend school.
Wouldn't matter cause you haven't got his respect. But I'll tell you I've known a lot of people in my life who have been through programs and a lot of others who were into drug dealing and even car theft (though I suspect the term as used here is an expansive, emotional ploy to describe taking the rents' car out w/o permission). Given the choice, hands down, I'd let my teenaged kid figure things out on their own before I'd send them off for reprograming.
You guys just don't seem to understand the gravity of what we all are trying to tell you. You can overcome a juvenile record. You can even come back from an adult conviction if that happens. You never, ever get over having your very mind violated and personality fundamentally rearranged. This is NOT the lessor of two evils we're talking about. It's more evil than you care to imagine.
Quote
Contemporary programs speed up the reform process through the use of more psychologically sophisticated and dangerous procedures to accomplish destabilization. In contemporary programs the process is sometimes carried forward on a large group basis, which reduces the ability of managers to detect symptoms of impending psychiatric emergencies. In addition, in some of the "therapeutic" ideologies espoused by thought reforming organizations, extreme emotional distress is valued positively, as a sign of progress. Studies of contemporary programs have reported on a variety of psychological injuries related to the reform process. Injuries include psychosis, major depressions, manic episodes, and debilitating anxiety (Glass, Kirsch, and Parris 1977, Haaken and Adams 1983, Heide and Borkovec 1983; Higget and Murray 1983; Kirsch and Glass 1977; Yalom and Lieberman 1971; Lieberman 1987; Singer and Ofshe 1990).
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=12 (http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=961&Itemid=12)
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2007, 10:10:16 PM
You've given me alot to digest and think about, I really do appreciate it.
Thanks
Post by: Antigen on March 26, 2007, 02:52:57 AM
Please let me know what you think of all that.
Post by: nimdA on March 26, 2007, 04:06:05 AM
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2007, 06:50:15 AM
Every story has 2 sides and I was ready to hang it up on the kid because I was at a loss as to what to do and how to help him.
You have given me an avenue to take to try to help him
Thank You! Thank You ! Thank You!
I have more to say to your responses because they are very powerful and you hit the nail on the head in many areas,
though I don't have the time right now to go on but please hang in there with me I will be back later
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 10:19:41 AM
I think this can serve as a good example of why people shouldn?t be so quick to write posters off as trolls. There were many here who could have used their experiences to assist this person who has a family member in crisis and instead chose to ridicule or dismiss the poster as a fake. This person stayed on and eventually got some valuable insight that seems to have assisted him/her but I am sure many others would have moved on and have in the past?? If you think of it this way that whether or not the story is true maybe is secondary ?you can respond to it as a hypothetical example which could assist many parents or family members that may be reading here on fornits and have similar problems?? if you are truly sincere about wanting to help some of these kids and their families you should give people more latitude and take on more of a mental attitude of credence towards these posters or if this is too difficult for you, try to refrain from posting all on the specific subject.
Dont mean to lecture, I have just seen this too many times and thought I should point it out.
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2007, 01:38:25 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2007, 04:09:41 PM
?You never, ever get over having your very mind violated and personality fundamentally rearranged. This is NOT the lessor of two evils we're talking about. It's more evil than you care to imagine.?
This statement alone is very powerful and why I know I need to continue to do what I can to keep him home!!
?You guys just don't seem to understand the gravity of what we all are trying to tell you?
I fully understand the gravity of what we all are trying to tell me - that?s why I fought for eight months to bring him home!
I have to walk a fine line in this situation because I am to some degree being
blamed for his lack of success(not the best choice of words) by both him and his parents for the first nine months he was gone. And I have already been told that if they send him back that I will be allowed NO contact.
?Wouldn't matter cause you haven't got his respect?.
How do I gain his respect quickly?
?Just put yourself in his shoes and see what the world looks like from there.?
I?m trying to put myself in his shoes and I can?t understand why he won?t follow a few simple rules. 1. Get your GED(it would only take about 2 months) 2. Be respectful to people 3. Clean up your own mess when you make it. 4- Be home on time 5-Stay off drugs. He did get a job though.
?If all the adults in his life are sending him the message that his brain could use a little more washing then I don't blame him for being shitty to the whole lot of you.?
Perfectly said. I?m sure that?s a big part of where his head is at ? unfortunately his parents aren?t willing to put up with it. I was hoping to convince him that it would be much easier to follow the rules for the next 9 months until he turns eighteen then it would be to go back to a TBS. Maybe I?m wrong in my thinking but it just seems like the logical choice and that it shouldn?t be that hard. If you feel that I?m wrong in my thinking PLEASE make suggestions.
?(though I suspect the term as used here is an expansive, emotional ploy to describe taking the rents' car out w/o permission)?
You are correct but he doesn?t have a drivers license and the parents are very concerned about their liability if something happens.
?Well, if you came to my house on the weekend to observe my behavior, I'd be pretty shitty to you too.?
FWIW, I didn?t just go there just to see his behavior, we had a family function going on.
I hope this makes sense to you and that you will continue with your input as it has been extremely helpful to me.
"New posters don't use words like 'programmies', or bother using text formatting... the fake parent troll got boring a year ago. NExt please.. (or at least get better at it)"
I spent 8 months reading Fornits, how do you think I new these programs were so terrible.
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2007, 07:31:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2007, 08:32:32 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I tried to intervene, I offered to let him live with me but he refused.
All that matters to him are his friends and these aren?t the type of friends you hoped your child would choose, thieves and druggies who are or have been in jail.
The parents tried to help him at home for at least three years before they sent him away. He was told what the consequences to his actions would be and he just doesn?t seem to care.
?The child isn?t functioning because he is too mentally ill to function.?
How do you reach someone who doesn?t seem to want to be reached?
Ok well, I dont know if you are real are not. But if you are interested in my advice as a former program kid...(and a damaged on at that)
The boy for lack of a better metaphor has been given a stroke by program. It makes no sense to send him back to make the stroke damage worse, of course.
Id like u to look at your wording. saying program is a "consequance". Real help is not a punishment. The problem with programmers is that they get you to confuse these notions. Punishment hurts it does not help.
You are trying to stop a behavior through punishment and this has nothing to do with meeting the boys needs but to get him to meet the parents desires
I sugges that you guys stop focusing on his behaviors and start focusing on his psche-spirit, the things that everyone is suposedly concerned about. Direct him to this website. The way to "healing" is understanding. You have to know what happened before u can start doing it.
Get him to go the police about what was done to him. Having to accept kidnapping and torture as something that "is for your own good and part of life" is very damaging to the pysche. In asstering himself against his abusers he wont sublimate his rage agasint himself or other innapropriate targets. He will regain self respect and a feeling that the world is worth living in. Get a lawyer. Get his advice about getting the police to take action, and suing. Help him get justice.
Talk to him without mention of changing his behavior becasue his behavior really isnt imortant - its his soul. Promise him if he comes live with yuo he wil NEVER be sent to program and u'll help him get justice. Tell him u understand what was done to him was evil. And you want to give him a safe repectful place to live where he can go about seeking redress.
As for his long term healing thats more complicated. He should be educated about abuse and brainwashing. So he can "think" his way around what was done to him. I think new ior intensified nterests in drugs are entirely based in program who indoctinate kids minds with drug lore 24/7. They are forced t to accept drug user as their identiy. They accept this idenity and interact through it with the world as they see it as their only way to recive love/freindship. Similarly if you kidnapped a boy and forced him to beleive he was a girl he'd emerge and interact with the world from a "girl" standpoint.
Education is the only way around this. Let him stay with his freinds. Its no big deal. It always shocks me that parents spend 100s of thousands of dollars trying to get their kids to beleive they are druggie criminals and then are SHOCKED when they make freinds with druggie criminals..after all these are their "peers" now.
These kids and their emotional darkness, sorrow, fear, lonliness, rage, hate are whom the kid relates to for obvious reasons He has the same feelings and background. They went to public prison. He went to a worse private prison.
So let him stay at your house. Dont make any rules , excpet obvious ones relating to violence against you. Nurture, dont control. Let him reassert "control" over his life as it has been quite unethically taken from him. It is the only way it will work out Everyone has a natural desire to happy and sucessful- if u dont beat it out of them. Through nurtuing, understanding, not punishing and hurting that will reestablish itself
Post by: Antigen on March 26, 2007, 11:38:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
?Just put yourself in his shoes and see what the world looks like from there.?
I?m trying to put myself in his shoes and I can?t understand why he won?t follow a few simple rules. 1. Get your GED(it would only take about 2 months) 2. Be respectful to people 3. Clean up your own mess when you make it. 4- Be home on time 5-Stay off drugs. He did get a job though.
I had a very hard time at first w/ being radically impulsive at turns and neurotically regimented at others. I was not used to having any choices or the need to plan anything. Everything was either mandatory or forbidden or explicitly instructed. Nobody told me explicitly not to accept a date with the 30yo dude to go play pac man and hang out at the bar. It was Georgia, I was 17, the underage drinking laws were just blue laws in that place and time, where's the harm? But it freaked my brother and his wife right the hell out. Of course! And they were both Seed graduates, she having been on staff for awhile. So they treated every odd or unsettling behavior as evidence of drug addiction (cause that was their thing in the Seed and Straight) and not, as they should have but could not, as evidence of how the program tends to mess up your thinking. Though they had moved on w/ their lives and no longer held themselves to those rigid standards of behavior, somehow I was different because I had split the program and was supposed to goose-step in time like a super Seedling to prove how incredibly straight I was. I could not do that. It was all I could do to keep my act together enough to get to and from work and I had missed out on learning all of the normal social skills and codes. I had been cloistered in a twilight zone environment where smiling at the wrong person at the wrong time was right justification for a good ass kicking. I knew how to function there, I had to learn that to survive. I had no clue how to function in the real world.
If I had had ANY group of friends to fall back in with, I would have been there yesterday! You're not going to get this kid to give up on that kind of outside support.
Quote
?If all the adults in his life are sending him the message that his brain could use a little more washing then I don't blame him for being shitty to the whole lot of you.?
Perfectly said. I?m sure that?s a big part of where his head is at ? unfortunately his parents aren?t willing to put up with it. I was hoping to convince him that it would be much easier to follow the rules for the next 9 months until he turns eighteen then it would be to go back to a TBS. Maybe I?m wrong in my thinking but it just seems like the logical choice and that it shouldn?t be that hard. If you feel that I?m wrong in my thinking PLEASE make suggestions.
?(though I suspect the term as used here is an expansive, emotional ploy to describe taking the rents' car out w/o permission)?
You are correct but he doesn?t have a drivers license and the parents are very concerned about their liability if something happens.
Well, that's just not criminal behavior. When I got my dad's car stuck in the sand and he reported it stolen, the local cop took him aside and told him "John, it was your kid, not some nigger or even the bad kid next door. It was your kid, go talk to her." but the cop wouldn't have known that Seed parents tend to over-react to such things.
This kid needs to find a safe place to live for the next few months, away from his parents, they're not going to be reasonable. He needs to be allowed to sort his own head out some. He'll figure out the friends. And please bear in mind that, w/ the way you characterized the "car theft", you might not be getting the whole, unvarnished truth about the friends, either. Drug dealers? Really? I always take that w/ a grain of salt wrt teenagers too. Very rarely do you run across a teenaged gang thug, especially one who's parents fit the demographic for these programs. More often, they're just acquiring for their own use and curiosity, which usually passes w/ maturity unless some well intended do gooder screws up the kid's future w/ psyche commitments and criminal a record before they have a chance.
Post by: nimdA on March 27, 2007, 12:24:09 AM
Post by: Antigen on March 27, 2007, 12:53:29 AM
Post by: Oz girl on March 27, 2007, 05:49:23 AM
I have 3 brothers one of whom was a total goody 2 shoes. All 3 at some point before legal driving age "stole" dad's midlife crisis car and got in the shit with him when busted. One waseven caught red handed by the cops.
Do parents define things so strictly because the law does and their kid is likely to get in real legal trouble or is it a minority of people?
Post by: Antigen on March 27, 2007, 01:26:52 PM
That's what's so damned frustrating about this whole thing, at least for me on a personal level. When I was a kid, our family's involvement w/ the cult made us outcasts in the neighborhood and schools. I didn't think I had any obligation beyond just knowing better than to ever put my own kids through this bullshit. But it seems that the crazies really have taken over the asylum so that now my kids are subject to this zero tolerance, zero thought bullshit at school and in public and the industry loonies think they're in the majority. But it's a contrived consensus. Here's just one well researched example of how they have accomplished this.
Quote from: ""Dan Forbes""
Prime-time propaganda
How the White House secretly hooked network TV on its anti-drug message: A Salon special report.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Daniel Forbes
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2000/01/13/drugs/ (http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2000/01/13/drugs/)
Oh, and btw, also a cautionary tale for all those who think the whole thing is strictly the domain of Repugnican lunacy. Don't think that the Dempublicans will save us all. In many ways they're worse than the Repugnicans because people don't suspect them so they get away w/ even more. That Jimmy Stewart charm school graduate pictured above is Bill Clinton's cabinet level advisor on drug policy (head of ONDCP). He is the first ever non medical doctor appointed to that office. His prior gig was as commander of SOCOM, which dream job he landed after having established a particularly savage reputation during Papa Bush's Gulf War One.
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 03:24:08 PM
They tried to help before they sent him away the first time.
How do you help someone who doesn't want Help?
"I had no clue how to function in the real world".
THis was one of many arguments I used to help get him out before
I kind of feel like this is a vicious circle, I understand that TBS is way to radical of an approach but there has to be something.
I don't think it's right to just let a kid do whatever they want, there has to be some kind of boundries.
Thanks everyone for the input.
I kind of feel like i'm not making any forward progress today.
:(
Post by: Karass on March 27, 2007, 03:45:15 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
I have noticed at times with some parents that the definition of thief and drug dealer can be pretty fast and loose. Isnt every kid who knows some one who can give them and all their mates a bag technically a dealer?
I have 3 brothers one of whom was a total goody 2 shoes. All 3 at some point before legal driving age "stole" dad's midlife crisis car and got in the shit with him when busted. One waseven caught red handed by the cops.
Do parents define things so strictly because the law does and their kid is likely to get in real legal trouble or is it a minority of people?
First, I want to say that even though I think some drugs and some drug habits are potentially dangerous, I think the #1 problem with illegal drugs is that they're illegal, not that they're drugs. We live in a police state, and "zero tolerance" is terrifying to many parents.
Our kids don't have the luxuries we had as teens of making a few mistakes, doing stupid and potentially harmful shit, and then growing up and out of it to become productive, responsible citizens. For them, the wrong mistake at the wrong time and place can be hugely devastating to their future chances for happiness, success (however they define that) and personal freedom.
Who knows how the majority or a minority of parents define stealing and dealing, but in most US states, the law is very harsh on dealing -- and like Ginger said with her loaf of bread example, the law doesn't distinguish between friends keeping each other from running out and a real drug trafficker who's in it for the money.
Is it a "fast and loose" definition if, say, a kid has a seriously expensive habit and he deals just to keep his personal use costs down? He's not exactly doing it for the money, but he's not just helping friends either -- he's just taking his profits in drugs instead of cash. Again, the law doesn't give him any special treatment.
Definition of a thief? I think that one is a lot easier for most people, even for most parents. Stealing someone else's property and selling, trading or using it for personal gain is pretty much stealing by most people's definition. Your brothers didn't "steal" your dad's car (although arguably they stole some gas) -- they just borrowed the car and went joy-riding. If instead of bringing the car home, one of them sold it and came home with a couple ounces of coke and no car, that would be stealing -- which would probably be followed by dealing, given that much blow.
Post by: Antigen on March 27, 2007, 04:03:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
They tried to help before they sent him away the first time.
How do you help someone who doesn't want Help?
Oh, that's easy. You just have to break them first. Trouble is no one on this planet knows how to build a human being so it's a very, very bad idea to intentional break them. But that is what the industry has to offer.
Quote
"I had no clue how to function in the real world".
THis was one of many arguments I used to help get him out before
I kind of feel like this is a vicious circle, I understand that TBS is way to radical of an approach but there has to be something.
I don't think it's right to just let a kid do whatever they want, there has to be some kind of boundries.
Thanks everyone for the input.
I kind of feel like i'm not making any forward progress today.
I'm sorry you're feeling discouraged and I don't have any brilliant, authoratative sure fire alternative solution for you. There are a whole lot of things we simply cannot cure or fix reliably, and kids making wrong turns (or, maybe, often, relatively innocuous mistakes that scare the shit out of their parents) is definitely one of them. Think about this in a broader perspective. Samuel Clemens, at the age of 12, took the opportunity while minding the family business to switch out the ordered copy for practical jokes. Think of the liability! The oppositional, defiant little shit could have sunk the family business. Good damned thing his people were not hooked into whatever Victorian era program like cures and nostrums were offering at the time.
The industry plays on hysteria; "He's going to diiiiiiiieeeeee! If you don't do something, fast!" This is plain bullshit. A more reasoned, level headed view is that life on this planet is sometimes dangerous and growing up is wrought with risks and trouble. There is no better way offering than just to stick by your family unconditionally and roll with it. They're selling a fiction and it's a cruel joke. Unfortunately, once people become convinced that they've found the magical snake oil to cure what scares them it's very, very difficult to make them understand that there is no such thing. It's a cruel joke.
But, more to the point, from what you've described, this kid's parents are a direct and immediate danger to his safety and his very life. You might want to consider getting the juvenile courts involved to proactively prevent the parents for whippin' a little more cure on him. But if they're living in the same area you are (sorry, I peeked at your logging inf) the whole state is pretty well owned by program interests, so it might not be out of line to suggest that the kid hit up his friends and see if they can find him safe lodging somewhere till he reaches the age of majority.
Post by: Antigen on March 27, 2007, 04:09:37 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 06:08:12 PM
You seem to have an amazing ability to put into words issues I'm still trying to figure out in my own head.
"You might want to consider getting the juvenile courts involved"
I'd be scared that I would be cut off completely, like I said earlier I'm walking a fine line here.
"(sorry, I peeked at your logging inf)" How did you do that?
Seriously though I didn't vote for our current governor based solely
on his ties to the TBS industry. I learned that information from this web site.
Again I have more to say to your responses though I don't have the time right now to go on but please hang in here with me I will be back.
Post by: exhausted on March 27, 2007, 07:47:45 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
He?s been to therapists locally before he was sent away the first time.I have been/am EXACTLY where you are x3
He refuses to see a therapist now because he says he has nothing to say.
I?ve talked to him alone and he says he?s sick of talking and that everything is fine.
?Just leave me alone?
I went to his house today to see his behavior and he acted like a shit head.
I think part of his issue is that he has no respect for anyone.
They?ve tried the consequences for his actions but he basically says
YOU CAN?T MAKE ME? and he?s right.
I can understand understand why his parents want to send him away,
He treats them worse than dirt
But being that I don?t believe in these programs can a former programmie
Or anyone suggest something else to try.
No you can't make him do anything, tell him you don't want to make him, that is the last thing you want him to do, the whole idea is that he wants to do something about it
All i can offer you is what I did, I decided not to send my kids to a program, even though it meant hell for me, I stood back and observed what I was doing as a parent and what they were doing as people, it took alot for me to realise that these kids are people and i have no right to make their life choices ofr them, it's down to them what they want to do for a living, whether they want to follow a criminal path etc etc, nearly immediately after stepping back and letting them know I didn't intend to screw out at them, but armed them with all the information i could muster, I gave them their weapons, then I let them out to survve, they knew the consequences, they knew they were not my consequences and I would not accept any responsibility for anything that came of bad choices made by them - they started to trust me, they started to respect me, they started to come to me with problems - why? probably because they knew for starters I wasn't going to freak out, or try to control them, but they also knew it might be worth getting some more info from me before doing anything they may regret
The bad choices still happen, it's not a magic cure, but the good ones far outweigh the bad, this could be because the responsibility i theirs alone, it could be that they are seeing me as someone other than the enemy, more likely it's because they don't wind me up anymore and therefore it's no fun, I don't really care what their reasoning is, al i know is that I have loving kids who are working really hard on finding themselves as peple, rather than controlled (or rather me trying to control them) robots who just did everything behind my back, we really are a much happier family because I was able to look at myself and realise where I was going wrong rather than point the finger at them the whole time
Eldest son starts college on Monday - he is 20, up to now he's wanted to do nothing but go to jail and generally waste his life, you have no idea how hard its been for him to wake up and want more for himself than that, but he did it and I am so proud of him for wanting to change things - it took guts for him to admit his failings as it did me.
I hope you can gain something from this, really, trying to control him is not going to work, encouraging him to want to control his own destiny could do the trick
I still want to murder them at times, but to date it has been 2 months since I've had the police/neighbours/other irate persons on my doorstep - as opposed to 1 - 2 times daily, I think that kind of tells it's own story
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 08:18:09 PM
Thanks for sharing your story, and it's great advice!
I'm sure it was a very difficult thing to do and I'm glad to hear it's turning around for you and your family.
Would you mind clarifying a few details for me?
"letting them know I didn't intend to screw out at them, but armed them with all the information i could muster, I gave them their weapons, then I let them out to survive"
What kind of information and weapons?
Thanks
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 08:25:25 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 08:29:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
"saying program is a "consequance". Real help is not a punishment. The problem with programmers is that they get you to confuse these notions. Punishment hurts it does not help."
They tried to help before they sent him away the first time.
How do you help someone who doesn't want Help?
"I had no clue how to function in the real world".
THis was one of many arguments I used to help get him out before
I kind of feel like this is a vicious circle, I understand that TBS is way to radical of an approach but there has to be something.
I don't think it's right to just let a kid do whatever they want, there has to be some kind of boundries.
Thanks everyone for the input.
I kind of feel like i'm not making any forward progress today.
:(
The "problem" we are discussing- the kid not doing what his parents want is the parents' "problem" not the kids'. That the kid isnt making them happy is THEIR PROBLEM. It is their problem in the same way having a bad job, a bad car, or a crappy TV is their problem. This has nothing to do with the "problems" of the kid and all to do with the desires of the parent. So lets seperate the parents problems form the kids' problems as they are completely differnt
No doubt alot of their desires are valid ones but they have they created an environment where having their valid desires met have become an unfair expectaion.
Have u ever seen the movie MOmmy Dearest? In it Joan Crawford abuses her daughter for not using wire hangers, talking back , not finishing her steak. These are all valid desires.for a mother to have for her daughter. But the way the woman goes about having them met, the way she raises her child in general turns them into things which cease to be valid desires. The way you describe this kids home life, where taking your parents car without their permission is "stealing" , putting him in program is an atmosphere similar to the one depicted in this movie Their "boundaries" are no longer fair.
So now lets look at the kids problems. His actions arent problems
"Not doing what your parents like" is not a "problem". A problem is something like abusive parents, physical illness, being bullied: things that you have to deal with that make your life hard.
Your own actions are not problems, they are choices, or reactions, or damage that stems FROM problems.
You can "cure" problems. You cant "cure" reactions. You can stop a reaction but the problem is still there- and the problem is what you guys are trying to help right?
So stop worrying so much about his behavior. Focus on his problems. His problem is living with unsupportive abusive people. Internal damage from program and other issues I am not privy to. Help him with these, stop worrying about what he does that annoys you
demanding certain behaviors isnt fair right now. Let him be a person not a serivce. Dont bully him.
Did u try what I suggested yet?
DId u tell him if he came to your place he would NEVER NEVER NEVER be sent to program no matter what in a million years?
Did you tell him you want to give him a safe place?
Did you tell him what was done to him was evil?
Did you tell him you want to help him press charges?
Did you take him to a lawyer?
Did you speak about the abuse he suffered?
Did you tell him to come to this website?
Why dont you try these things first before worrying about what his behaviors will be in the future. Right now we are trying to solve his most immediate problem- living with an abusive parent.
I think another good idea is helping move in with his freinds. Sometimes people need to break away froma dysfunctional family. This way you are no longer "directly responding" to probelms. You are no longer weighed down by them. You have new supportive imput. You are reinvigerated and you "heal" your problems.
Have the kid come to this website
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 09:05:50 PM
here are the short answers.
Did u try what I suggested yet? yes & no
DId u tell him if he came to your place(YES) he would NEVER NEVER NEVER be sent to program no matter what in a million years? NO because I though it would work out at home, I have seen some positive changes in his parents but he made alot of promises when they decided to let him stay home that he hasn't kept.I'm not saying that it's only his fault tho.
Did you tell him you want to give him a safe place?
Yes I did, He said "I have no friends there so no I don't want to" stay with you
.
Did you tell him what was done to him was evil?
Not directly but I think he bascilly new how I felt about TBS and that I was trying to get him out.
Did you tell him you want to help him press charges?
No and don't blow a gasket on this one but when I talked to him about abuse at the school he said he wasn't abused and he didn't understand why I would be asking him those kind of questions.
Did you take him to a lawyer? No
Did you speak about the abuse he suffered? No
Did you tell him to come to this website? No but I believe he is aware it exists.
Post by: Antigen on March 28, 2007, 01:13:00 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Antigen's Ghost
You seem to have an amazing ability to put into words issues I'm still trying to figure out in my own head.
Well thank you! I've had a lot of time to think about this stuff. But that's really cool to hear because it's always been my 'way with words' that's gotten me into trouble.
Quote
"You might want to consider getting the juvenile courts involved"
I'd be scared that I would be cut off completely, like I said earlier I'm walking a fine line here.
I feel ya there too. I have a niece in a program now. Would love to talk to her but, well, being who I am, that would be nothing but trouble till she's able to communicate unmonitored.
Quote
"(sorry, I peeked at your logging inf)" How did you do that?
Oh, I admin this site. Sort of. Really, Kelly does the tech admin and hosting now, but I still have admin access as far as the forum is concerned.
Quote
Seriously though I didn't vote for our current governor based solely
on his ties to the TBS industry. I learned that information from this web site.
Again I have more to say to your responses though I don't have the time right now to go on but please hang in here with me I will be back.
That's cool. Remember this too, and I think most older program vets would agree. Trying counts. My dad tried, fell down some times, but tried the best he could. When I got older and understood things better I knew I could trust him. My brother didn't do much except for understand. Even just that has been my anchor sometimes.
Post by: Antigen on March 28, 2007, 01:57:16 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Did you tell him you want to help him press charges?
No and don't blow a gasket on this one but when I talked to him about abuse at the school he said he wasn't abused and he didn't understand why I would be asking him those kind of questions.
I have to throw this in, bear with me please. I can't explain it without retelling a story.
When I got out, HRS (Florida's CYS agency then) was hot and heavy on investigating Straight. I landed up in the middle of that, not by choice, but because my parents and program staff had had me extradited from Georgia for the 'crime' of being a chronic runaway. So they were my only allies in getting what I needed; freedom and space to clear my head and figure out what I wanted to do with myself. When they asked me if I had been abused, I thought of the couple of days when I was openly rebelling and they had had other program inmates bounce me around the inside of a timeout room for a number of hours, broken my nose and then had them sit on me on a cold concrete floor for a couple of hours. And I thought about all the times I'd seen others similarly treated and far worse. But I said no, and I wasn't lying to cover for anybody. I honestly thought it wouldn't be fair or right to use the word abuse when we all knew the consequences of misbehaving.
In my case, misbehaving meant refusing to apologize to Group for having run away. I had been out a couple of weeks, at least, and regained enough clarity to remember the more commonly accepted definition of the term "honesty", which was our first and most impotent rule. Instead of apologizing, begging forgiveness, professing my insanity (step #1) and begging for help, I said "No, it wouldn't be honest. I'm sorry I let myself get dragged back in here, though." I do not remember that trip. I remember turning up at my sister's house, staying for a short while, I remember the halfway house where they talked me into trusting my sister. Then I was sitting in group. Then I was getting roughed up for the above.
I was brainwashed. The shit works! I often wish I had had the clarity at the time to pursue meaningful legal action against these sadistic lunatics. But I don't regret my choice to just walk away. Fact is I did not have the clarity at the time and, if I had played it that way, it would probably have just made me a different kind of lunatic and done no good at all.
Some of these kids posting lately do have that kind of clarity. Some of them are even lucky enough to have the support of good family the help them through. I expect great things from these kids! These are the ones who will make peace in the middle east or produce the art that sparks the mind that does. I wasn't there.
The other event that's crystallized in my mind is a short conversation I had with my dad in the foyer of the Sarasota courthouse. The judge had given me permission to leave the state for the holidays and I would be 18 long before they could force me back for another hearing. I wanted to talk to my dad, tell him what I was thinking, see what he was thinking. I told him they were trying to get me to press charges against him and my mom. That scared him. And that disappointed me. As if I wouldn't know I could do that?? He was still into the kool aid too much to remember who he was talking to. I told him I wasn't going to do that and he was genuinely confused and asked me why. I told him "because you taught me better than that." It was a plea for him to remember who I was as opposed to the fictional character I'd been forced to play for so long. And eventually he did.
You're right to tread lightly and thoughtfully. You're my heroin. If I had had one friend or relative like you, my whole life would have been different. ::kiss::
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 10:26:33 AM
He ranaway and hasn't been home for a couple of nites.
He won't answer his cell phone either.
I was told "DO NOT" try to contact him.
tho I called yesterday not knowing that he hadn't been home and he did not take my call.
They haven't report him missing to the police as of yet, they may tonite though. Does anyone know the pro's & Cons to either or both sides of this?
I'm afraid of involving the police because then you have no control about what happens.
On the other hand I'm also worried about him being gone and is he OK
Post by: nimdA on March 28, 2007, 11:01:59 AM
Weigh it out...
Juvie...
Program...
Where are you from and do the jUvies have a record of violence that you should worry about?
Because programs most definitely have a record of mentally cornholing children. That and killing them. Kiddie prison's aren't much fun either, and kids die in them also. Yet.. it has a set period of incarceration.. 3 meals a day no matter what.. shower.. clothes.. TV.. books.. Phone.. legal representation...
Programs... You get what they want you to have and that isn't much.
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 11:44:30 AM
"Where are you from and do the jUvies have a record of violence that you should worry about? "
I live in the sunshine state so yes they have a long bad ugly
history. Think Martin Lee Anderson.
"I'm afraid of involving the police because then you have no control about what happens.
On the other hand I'm also worried about him being gone and is he OK"
So why am I asking these studip question?
Because I've gotten some great advice from this forum and I continue to look here for support and advice which is the only place I have to go to.
Examples below
"exhausted wrote
then I let them out to survve, they knew the consequences, they knew they were not my consequences and I would not accept any responsibility for anything that came of bad choices made by them"
"Antigen's Ghost wrote
"You guys just don't seem to understand the gravity of what we all are trying to tell you. You can overcome a juvenile record. You can even come back from an adult conviction if that happens. You never, ever get over having your very mind violated and personality fundamentally rearranged. This is NOT the lessor of two evils we're talking about. It's more evil than you care to imagine."
plus there is a lot more that I haven't highlighted
Post by: Karass on March 28, 2007, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Remember what ginger said earlier though about being able to have your juvenile record cleared on its own by the age of 18.
It ain't as simple as that in many states, where the whole "get tough on crime" movement has watered down what used to be an attitude that juveniles should not be burdened for life with the record of their youthful transgressions.
In my state, not only is a juvenile record not "cleared on its own" -- you must fill out paperwork and ask the court to do it...and they might deny your request -- but some records still remain. Some states, for example, pass along info on juvenile adjudications (convictions or guilty pleas) to the DMV, for purposes of restricting the juvenile's driving privileges, even if the criminal offense has nothing to do with driving. Even when you turn 18, and even if the court expunges your juvenile record, the DMV still has it's records for all to see...like insurance companies for example.
Quote
Weigh it out...
Juvie...
Program...
They both suck, just in different ways. How about door number three -- none of the above?
Post by: nimdA on March 28, 2007, 12:11:39 PM
Quote
Three Springs Waygookin
"Where are you from and do the jUvies have a record of violence that you should worry about? "
I live in the sunshine state so yes they have a long bad ugly
history. Think Martin Lee Anderson.
I worked at The Eckerd's Camp E-Kill-U to in Silver Springs, the same one that the Wiltsky boy died at.. I'm pretty familiar with the state of Florida. The YDC's aren't a joking matter in that state, or at least they weren't when I was down there.
I would still look into the local conditions. See if you can scare up some numbers. If anything you can post them on the Public Gulag's forum for us.
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 01:30:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Update,
He ranaway and hasn't been home for a couple of nites.
He won't answer his cell phone either.
I was told "DO NOT" try to contact him.
tho I called yesterday not knowing that he hadn't been home and he did not take my call.
They haven't report him missing to the police as of yet, they may tonite though. Does anyone know the pro's & Cons to either or both sides of this?
I'm afraid of involving the police because then you have no control about what happens.
On the other hand I'm also worried about him being gone and is he OK
but I thought he wasnt your kid but a relatives.?
wouldnt they contact the police?
Listen 3 springs why r u bringing up prison?
it is obvious why this kid ran away
his parents abuse him. All you guys care about superficlai issues- "bourndaries". COmpletley inantentive to him as a human being and only the "service" he provivdes.
DOnt put him in prison are you mad? Becasue he cant live with people who threaten his life he should go to prison? You shouldnt have threatened him with program what do u expect. him to wait for possible death at any moment.
Its obvious this kid is sooo confused. No wonder he doesnt think hes been abused. He lives in a dark underworld where terrible things can be done to him - like put him iin prison- for his own good. He thinks this is all just a part of life. He doesnt realize emancipation is an option(of course its not that easy & who wants to wait in prison until someone says your an adult)
Id say help this kid run away. DONT CALL THE POLICE Contact a lwayer to help him get emancupaion. When he contacts u talk to him about that You shoul have told him to come to this website it may have given him some coping ideas.
Let him escape to a better place. If he calls to ask u for help than help him. Dont return him to his parents or authorities. Mabye search for him on ur own . If u find him do all those things we talked about-this website-lawyer-press charges-emancipation- stop worrying about rules!
thats all. God this sucks
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 02:14:14 PM
Quote
but I thought he wasnt your kid but a relatives.?
wouldnt they contact the police?
I am a relative. The parents didn't tell me until today that he ran away. and It Is them that would (may)contact the police.
I'm trying to understand the pros and cons so I can recommend weather or not to call the police. My gut says don't call but but I'm looking for advice to back it up. But I also like to get both sides of the story.
Quote
Contact a lwayer to help him get emancupaion.We actually looked into this briefly but found it likely isn't possible for several reasons that are to long to explain.
Quote
I would still look into the local conditions. See if you can scare up some numbers. If anything you can post them on the Public Gulag's forum for us.
I saw you said this before and I haven't had the chance, how would I go about doing this? know that we live in different counties if that matters.
Quote
God this sucks
That's putting it mildly
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 02:30:17 PM
to my mind the kid is setting his own bounderies
ie. dont hur my brain, dont threaten me with furth brain injury, i have enough trouble now. I wont take this, Im leaving this is past my limit
I hope he makes it. If he contacts u help him in living seperately . Try to look into emancipation. It is not impossible. If he has a will there is often a way. Hes being abused & doesnt want that to continue that might be pretty convincing
Post by: Antigen on March 28, 2007, 02:41:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
They haven't report him missing to the police as of yet, they may tonite though. Does anyone know the pro's & Cons to either or both sides of this?
I'm afraid of involving the police because then you have no control about what happens.
On the other hand I'm also worried about him being gone and is he OK
Aside from the parents' word, how do you know he ran and was not snatched? I'd try and contact some of his friends if I were in your shoes. Face to face so they know you're sincere and what you're asking for; just that he contact you somehow, blocked number phone call, post card, w/e, to let you know he's alright and not back in a program. It'll also let him know that, if and when he decides he's in trouble he can count on you.
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 03:08:06 PM
Quote
Aside from the parents' word, how do you know he ran and was not snatched?
I believe they wouldn't lie to me and that I could tell by the tone of their voice if they were.I also saw him logged into his my space account today. Dam I wish I new how to use myspace I only know how to lurk there.
Quote
I'd try and contact some of his friends if I were in your shoes. Face to face so they know you're sincere and what you're asking for;
Great idea, i'll be in that area tomorrow so I will.I wish I could get over there tonite but I just can't
any thoughts on calling the police assuming he hasn't been snatched?
Thanks for hanging in here with me :D
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 03:39:07 PM
it'll ask u to register, register.
then with your new ID contact him.
it has prompts to follow.
But the problem is u can track someone through myspaceand he'll know that and not want ot risk that. SO if u contact him through there just give him a "message"- like u r there 4 him wont send him to program or deceive him to get him to appear. That u r totally up front & wont make him do anything he doesnt want to do
dont contact the police.
they wont do anything anyway.
the only way to "hunt" him down is to gt a child hunter (they actually have those)
Contacting his freinds face to face is a good idea. Just tell them to give them the message that u want to help him, if u can & set him up somewhere safe until he is 18 and free.. Mention you want to discuss his legal rights so he doesnt have to live like a fugitive Stress that u will never decieve him or trick him in anyway
Post by: Antigen on March 28, 2007, 03:53:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 03:55:08 PM
Quote
But the problem is u can track someone through myspaceand he'll know that and not want ot risk that. SO if u contact him through there just give him a "message"- like u r there 4 him wont send him to program or deceive him to get him to appear. That u r totally up front & wont make him do anything he doesnt want to do
When u say contact him is there away to do this without anyone else except him knowing? [/quote]
Post by: Antigen on March 28, 2007, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
QuoteAside from the parents' word, how do you know he ran and was not snatched?
I believe they wouldn't lie to me and that I could tell by the tone of their voice if they were.I also saw him logged into his my space account today. Dam I wish I new how to use myspace I only know how to lurk there.
Careful there. Could be the rents logged on as him.
Quote
I'd try and contact some of his friends if I were in your shoes. Face to face so they know you're sincere and what you're asking for;
Great idea, i'll be in that area tomorrow so I will.I wish I could get over there tonite but I just can't
[/quote]
That got my daughter to call home one time when I was just wrecked w/ worry. Turned out to be an actual, adult, serious business gang thug who sat her down and gave her a heart to heart. I went asking after her at a gas station where she and her friends hung out. I just told the guy the truth, I just want my little girl to step away from the crazy people. I guess I wasn't half the psychotic bitch the little shits had told everybody I was and this guy was starting to grow up and out of all the glory and excitement of the thing. Probably had kids of his own. Anyway, good luck with that.
Quote
any thoughts on calling the police assuming he hasn't been snatched?
None fit for expression in polite company. I can tell you a little more if you want to register a username and PM me.
Quote
Thanks for hanging in here with me :D
Ain't nothin' t'all.
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 04:03:19 PM
Quote
Emancipation. Dunno why I didn't think of it. Even if it's unlikely to go through, just filing a petition may place him in a legal position that would prevent anybody from taking him out of the local court's jurisdiction, or at least raise the attention of the judge of they did. As I recall reasonable plan for self support.
Not just a reasonable plan but documented proof that you can support yourself.
And not to be used by teenagers who are unhappy with their parents.
But the court jurisdiction might have some possibilities, I'll check into that, Thanks
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 04:25:18 PM
You've got mail
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 04:40:11 PM
of course
myspace works like email.
you send email through myspace.
when i said "track him through myspace" meant through IP numbers which youd have to do through a child hunter or the police.
register on myspace
find his page
click beneath his picture where it says "send message"
send him an email
Post by: vern on March 28, 2007, 04:47:45 PM
Quote
register on myspace
find his page
click beneath his picture where it says "send message"
send him an email
I feel like an idiot for not knowing this :D Thank you :D
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 04:57:17 PM
if you have any other questions about how to use it Im happy to finnally have more computer knowledge than someone else :P
so/ lets hope this goes well
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2007, 06:44:05 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
exhausted,Don't think it's easy, it isn't, it's far from it
Thanks for sharing your story, and it's great advice!
I'm sure it was a very difficult thing to do and I'm glad to hear it's turning around for you and your family.
Would you mind clarifying a few details for me?
"letting them know I didn't intend to screw out at them, but armed them with all the information i could muster, I gave them their weapons, then I let them out to survive"
What kind of information and weapons?
Thanks
One thing you have to understand is you are taking on aot here, this kid is reay screwed up and feels he is going to loose 'street cred' if he cleans his act up, its one of the hardest things for a teen to do, but it's achievable, my 13 & 14 year old have done it
The informatin and weapons i gave them were stuff like talking about drugs, safe sex, living rough and the dangers, all i could do for them was to give them all the information they needed to help them to make their decisions, the rest was up to them, I guess when i talk of weapons, I really meant tools (Not guns geek) that wasn't aimed at you but the replyee on that! Meaning life skills, tools to help them work out that they do have choices that no one else could make for them, good or bad, their choices would lead to how their lives turned out, thnakfully they're making better and better choices every day as once they got into that pattern, they found they were enjoying life at home and outside.
The recent developments are a concern, this lad realy is runnign scared, he needs to know he can survive al of this and still turn out as an okay kind of person, he may not be bale to do this by living with you, I'd agree that letting him know you will do whatever it takes to help him is a good idea, but it may mean you helping him find a safe haven away from you, but with the knowledge that you are not going to let anyone hurt him in any way whatever, you're only a phone call away
Of course you're worried where he is, but calling the police is going to take him home and then straight into a program, it'll be another reason to send him in that hes caused grief to his parents again, he'll survive, honest, all he needs from you is the knowledge that he can pick up the phone and you'll help.....pease let us know how you get on
Exhausted (Unable to log in & blinded by thse nightmare codes)
Post by: Antigen on March 29, 2007, 09:10:50 PM
Post by: psy on March 30, 2007, 02:33:36 AM
Post by: vern on March 30, 2007, 04:42:21 PM
Sorry I don't have time for more than that right now.
I spoke to him on the phone today :D and he sounded good.
Post by: Antigen on March 30, 2007, 07:02:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2007, 08:20:21 PM
Quote from: ""Antigen's Ghost""
What kind of trouble are you having logging in? First course, delete your cookies (or at least the fornits cookies) If that doesn't clear it up, please contact us at wwf@fornits.com or post to the web forum hosting forum.Have done, thanks :D
Post by: vern on April 06, 2007, 07:59:10 PM
Of course he ‘s lost 20LBS. and got strep throat but basically he seems OK. He’s living at one of his friend’s house and I feel better knowing that he’s not sleeping on the streets.
Thank you to all of you who hung in there with me and gave me advice and helped me through a really difficult time, it was very much appreciated.
Vern
Post by: Antigen on April 06, 2007, 09:44:09 PM
Post by: exhausted on April 15, 2007, 07:19:58 PM
Post by: vern on April 15, 2007, 08:38:42 PM
Quote
Wonder how things are working out for this family
I don't know exactly how to answer that, it's working in the fact that he's not in a TBS but his myspace account implies that he's doing alot of drinking and drugs. He's living between a couple of friends houses and probably partying alot so for him it's working.
His parents have pretty much come to accept the fact that he's gonna do what he's gonna do and the consequences are his but there not to happpy about it. They are hoping he hits bottom sooner rather than later and comes home and gets his life together.
Vern
Post by: exhausted on April 16, 2007, 04:18:16 PM
I hope he starts to tire of his lifestyle soon and this is just him going wild with his freedom
Keep us posted
Post by: Antigen on April 16, 2007, 05:12:33 PM
:roll:
There is absolutely nothing to be gained by "bottoming out". If anything, it's easier to get your shit together in whatever way you're trying when things are going well, no when you're assed out. This is just more of the Stepcraft bullshit that has become so pervasive in our society.
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2007, 05:46:33 PM
The rock bottom thing - sometimes it does take a person to get there to realise they have no place else to go - is what happened to me.
Exhausted
Post by: Antigen on April 16, 2007, 05:56:37 PM
Post by: exhausted on April 17, 2007, 07:26:13 AM
She's punished me all my life, but it's not going to happen anymore.
I was in care with a girl who I am still friends with all these years later, when her mum died, she told me she held her hand to the end, and then said "I'm glad your dead, you can't hurt me anymore", she asked me if that made her evil? I said no, it made her relieved and that's ok, then I said to her "But she is still hurting you isnt she?" and she said yes
That, i find really sad :(
Post by: Oz girl on April 17, 2007, 07:55:23 AM
Post by: vern on April 17, 2007, 01:02:52 PM
Quote
You know it may be possible that my space is not an entirely accurate picture of how this kids life is. After all is myspace not just the locker room of our time? Who has not embellised a little as a teenager in order to look cool?
I wish that was the case, I talked to him yesterday and he admitted drinking and doing acid, he said he's not doing crack tho. I hope thats true. Sometimes I get so upset I just want to drag him to my house and keep him safe. :(
Post by: Antigen on April 17, 2007, 04:41:22 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
You know it may be possible that my space is not an entirely accurate picture of how this kids life is. After all is myspace not just the locker room of our time? Who has not embellised a little as a teenager in order to look cool?
No kidding! You ought to see my daughter's. She likes to have fun w/ it. For awhile, her name was something like super homo or some such.
Post by: psy on April 17, 2007, 05:08:29 PM
Quote from: ""Antigen's Ghost""
Well now that's helpful! Wish failure on him. That's the spirit!
:roll:
There is absolutely nothing to be gained by "bottoming out". If anything, it's easier to get your shit together in whatever way you're trying when things are going well, no when you're assed out. This is just more of the Stepcraft bullshit that has become so pervasive in our society.
sounds rediculous.... but it's true. Stepcraft made this idiotic idea of "rock bottom" popular. Hitting bottom is not the only way to go up.
But then again... it's a touchy subject for all of us I think becuase in the shitpits that used stepcraft, "rock bottom" was something they slammed you into, not something you hit naturally.
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 05:44:27 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 05:51:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
psy, you're a smart kid, so please take this in stride -- it's ridiculous, not rediculous. (Think "ridicule.") - Your friend the Spelling Nazi.
The only thing more annoying than TheWho's posts.
Post by: exhausted on April 17, 2007, 06:08:01 PM
Quote from: ""vern""
Well Vern, you could do that.QuoteYou know it may be possible that my space is not an entirely accurate picture of how this kids life is. After all is myspace not just the locker room of our time? Who has not embellised a little as a teenager in order to look cool?
I wish that was the case, I talked to him yesterday and he admitted drinking and doing acid, he said he's not doing crack tho. I hope thats true. Sometimes I get so upset I just want to drag him to my house and keep him safe. :(
But what effect would it have? Having him at your house isn't gouing to make him give up his lifestyle and want what you want for him, you're doing okay by giving him his space to work it all out and letting him know you're still there for him no matter what, consider the fact that he is taking to you about the drink and acid abuse as him placing a huge trust in you, not many kids would admit that to anyone, he's turning to you by telling you something that you could easily run to the police or his parents with in order to get taken away, it's a huge trust he's placing in you
I know it's really difficult, but try not to lecture him, by all means let him know you are not impressed by his lifestyle and see him as deserving better for himself, but for the most part, keep him close with the trust you share ... and good luck in helping to bring him back to a life that he really wants, I'm sure hes as mad as hell at himself for what he's doing, which is probably why he tells you
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 06:21:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""psy, you're a smart kid, so please take this in stride -- it's ridiculous, not rediculous. (Think "ridicule.") - Your friend the Spelling Nazi.
The only thing more annoying than TheWho's posts.
Suck a dick.
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: ""Eliscu2""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Suck a dick.Quote from: ""Guest""psy, you're a smart kid, so please take this in stride -- it's ridiculous, not rediculous. (Think "ridicule.") - Your friend the Spelling Nazi.
The only thing more annoying than TheWho's posts.
Wow for a moment there I thought I was back at the Elan Forum :rofl: [/b]
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: vern on April 18, 2007, 07:23:06 PM
Quote
Vern, I hope you understand, at least, that Who is a perfect representative of Program philosophy and personality and that their magic snake oil cure for the insoluible condidtion of adolescence just that, snake oil.
On the bright side, the terrifying danger over which these sadistic lunatics want you to panic is really not all that big a deal. You think partying w/ friends is risky behavior? Well just look to generations past when disaffected young men took other options, like joining the French Foreign Legion or heading out into the Wild West to seek their fame and fortune and the girls just had to suck it up.
I hope the kid is doing alright. He's luck to have an aunt like you who has held fast to that quaint old habit of thinking things through and standing by family even when the rest of the herd is stampeding over a cliff. It'll all work out in the end.
_________________
Drug war POW
return undef() if /coercion/i
(It's Perl. To put it another way...)
"Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)" The Who
Quote
Well Vern, you could do that.
But what effect would it have? Having him at your house isn't gouing to make him give up his lifestyle and want what you want for him, you're doing okay by giving him his space to work it all out and letting him know you're still there for him no matter what, consider the fact that he is taking to you about the drink and acid abuse as him placing a huge trust in you, not many kids would admit that to anyone, he's turning to you by telling you something that you could easily run to the police or his parents with in order to get taken away, it's a huge trust he's placing in you
I know it's really difficult, but try not to lecture him, by all means let him know you are not impressed by his lifestyle and see him as deserving better for himself, but for the most part, keep him close with the trust you share ... and good luck in helping to bring him back to a life that he really wants, I'm sure hes as mad as hell at himself for what he's doing, which is probably why he tells you
exhausted,
Thanks for building my confidence, sometimes I question my own thinking on this matter and it's nice to be reassured
Vern
Post by: Antigen on April 19, 2007, 10:32:58 AM
I think he realized at some point that he was not qualified to speak to me on the topic and that showed real respect that I desperately needed.
Post by: exhausted on April 19, 2007, 06:47:48 PM
Quote from: ""vern""
Your welcome, there are very few of us who are panicking like crazy & just want someone to sort the problem out, that will stand by our convictions and just hold on to them in the hope they'll hold onto themselves
exhausted,
Thanks for building my confidence, sometimes I question my own thinking on this matter and it's nice to be reassured
Vern
i think this kid is going to be okay somehow, he's got one person who is there no matter what and one person is all it needs
Keep going, you're doing great :wink:
Post by: psy on April 19, 2007, 07:37:19 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Quote from: ""vern""Your welcome, there are very few of us who are panicking like crazy & just want someone to sort the problem out, that will stand by our convictions and just hold on to them in the hope they'll hold onto themselves
exhausted,
Thanks for building my confidence, sometimes I question my own thinking on this matter and it's nice to be reassured
Vern
Now i'm probably gonna get blasted for this but this is what AlAnon is supposed to teach... that people are powerless over others. "Let go and let god"... Some of it makes sense in some situations. But then again, they advocate cutting off support, so I don't see how that is supposed to help somebody aside from helping them to "hit rock bottom"... It's like "let go (off a cliff) and let god (catch him/her)" well These people obviously lack some common sense because regardless of whether or not a person has a drug/alcohol problem, cutting off support is very likely to make them hit rock bottom... and if a person hits rock bottom, they tend to do things they wouldn't normally, and develop problems they wouldn't normally. shit.. if you keep telling them "bla bla bla... you're an addict ... you're gonna DIE!!!!!"... at their lowest point.. they might as well fulfill that prophecy/curse... as it's what you told them would happen.
And at the same time, they see the program, whether it be AA, straight, or what have you, as the pre-programmed salvation.. God is love, unconditional love.. bla bla bla... It sounds awfully attractive when you're suffering. Then you save your own life and attribute it to a safety blanket/easter bunny/generic-god. Total placebo. But that's what it was designed to be. Stupid Bill who started the whole AA shit.. Doctors put him on so many hallucinogens until he saw god and had a conversion...
You don't have to break a person to fix em... it's just fucked up thinking... 50% of alcoholics (and those are people addicted to alcohol) will stop on their own... Most kids never have had time to come anywhere near alcoholism... You can talk to the twelve-steppers and they'll tell you "well I started out just like your son".. well no shit.. but not everybody who started out like your son turned out into a wino either. Most didn't. Experimentation with substances is part of growing up. No kid is going to listen to the "don't do it... it's BAAAD.. it'll fry your brain.. irreperably (this is your brain...) Pot will make you kill your girlfriend (see Reefer Madness)bla bla bla SCARE.!!!!"... It's actually counter-productive to do that, since the kid is going to try it, no matter what you say, and when he does, if he finds out you or the govt is full of shit, it's gonna make him think there is no risk at all.. and for that matter.. if pot isn't dangerous... the government says not to try crack either... People expect their kids to be honest to them about drugs while simultaneously feeding them blatant bullshit propaganda. And you think the kids can't sniff out hypocracy?
Here's my advice: Explain substances as they are:
Alcohol: relaxes people, decreases inhibitions facilitating conversation, dangerous to use alone (leads to dependency), physically dependent if used too often.
Pot: Effects dependent on strain and person. Some people just get dopey on pot... but it might be the strain since some strains do that. It's like granny smith vs Red Delicious apples. Generally: pot makes people more creative, insigful, can increase physical coordination in some people, facilitates wordplay, philosphical conversations... Negative effects: short term memory loss (depends also on familiarity with effects). Can be addictive if used every day (but i doubt the addictiveness since a bunch of people who I know used to be daily smokers but quit since they just "grew out of it". A vast number of college students prefer to get blind drunk... Alcohol is far more dangerous.
Well that's all I ever tried... As far as hard drugs go... Well I don't know anybody who's just tried em. So that's probably a bad sign.
Sorry for ranting... sleep deprived (again)
Quote
i think this kid is going to be okay somehow, he's got one person who is there no matter what and one person is all it needs
Keep going, you're doing great :wink:
ditto
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2007, 11:04:35 PM
www.harmreductiontherapy.org (http://www.harmreductiontherapy.org)
and www.harmreductioneducation.com (http://www.harmreductioneducation.com)
A more rational approach. Here's a funny thing: my daughter told me that it was in the fifth grade during a DARE lecture that she intuited that she would one day "have a relationship with drugs". Until then it had not occured to her.
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2007, 11:12:13 PM
Post by: TheWho on April 20, 2007, 08:11:58 AM
Quote
Now i'm probably gonna get blasted for this but this is what AlAnon is supposed to teach……
Dam it Psy, there is no need to apologize for your views, you have done this before. It is important that you continue to decide for yourself what is important based on your own observations, experiences and background not solely on the experience of others. Working with a group for long periods of time (like here at fornits) you run the risk of losing your desire for independent thinking and the healthy exercise of continuously convincing yourself that the information before you is true and reasonable. You have extremely strong independent thinking skills which will take you far, so don’t fall into the trap of taking the easy path of uncritically accepting what a group determines to be right.
Unlike Critical thinking, which is the ability to process information logically, independent thinking skills can be lost if they are not exercised constantly.
If you feel parts of AlAnon have value and others don’t you are showing the desire to find your own truth based on your value system and personal perspective. For example, you may abhor Benchmark but at the same time be able to find the newly hired receptionist attractive, kind and form a healthy relationship with her because you have the ability to separate the two……. Anyway, I am making this comment because I have seen too many people come in here with fresh ideas and then lose that ability because of pressure to conform to ideas accepted by the majority, no slight to fornits intended, although the pressure seems to be higher here than most.
Sorry if this results in derailing or high jacking the thread, it is not my intent and needed to be said.
Post by: Oz girl on April 20, 2007, 08:40:32 AM
i then deliberately read as widely as i could on the subject and spoke to parents and kids both in favour of the industry and against it. i also looked at the meanspirited tone of the marketing of most programs website.
A pattern began to emerge. I had plently of people whose experience of the industry was hideous wanting to speak to me.
There were also many kids who defended their time in the industry by telling me it was awful but they needed a couple of yrs of hell to stop stealing, fucking, sulking, drugtaking or whatever.
Some parents also told me thast the industry was far from perfect but they felt that this institutional environment kept their off spring out of trouble.
Not one kid has yet told me that she enjoyed her time in "the program" not even those who support it.
It was with all of this information that I came to the conclusion that the industry was morally reprihensible and that in the name of profit it was willing to play on the fears of parents and punish their kids. So I dont think it is "the group" on fornits that have lead me to the conclusion that this industry and those within it are a disgrace.
Post by: exhausted on April 20, 2007, 09:33:28 AM
okay i've taken the hard route, its really not as easy as I probably mke it sound, but it's the lesser of two evils, it seems to be working slowly but surely and I really believe in my heart that my kids won't end up hating me, time will tell
Oddly enough, the eldest has read through this site but still says to me that i should have sent him to a program, either he doesn't get it, he thinks they'd never be able to break him or he hates me enough to want to be in that situation (he has said several times how he'd love to go even now and let them try to break him or any kid around him, he thinks I should send him so he can teach the other kids to fight back - mnaybe he DOES get it) :-?
Post by: TheWho on April 20, 2007, 09:38:30 AM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
you know who I came to this forum with no ideas about the wider industry except for puzzlement over why a relative was thinking of sending their kid to a school which banned packages of cookies from the child's grandma.
i then deliberately read as widely as i could on the subject and spoke to parents and kids both in favour of the industry and against it. i also looked at the meanspirited tone of the marketing of most programs website.
A pattern began to emerge. I had plently of people whose experience of the industry was hideous wanting to speak to me.
There were also many kids who defended their time in the industry by telling me it was awful but they needed a couple of yrs of hell to stop stealing, fucking, sulking, drugtaking or whatever.
Some parents also told me thast the industry was far from perfect but they felt that this institutional environment kept their off spring out of trouble.
Not one kid has yet told me that she enjoyed her time in "the program" not even those who support it.
It was with all of this information that I came to the conclusion that the industry was morally reprihensible and that in the name of profit it was willing to play on the fears of parents and punish their kids. So I dont think it is "the group" on fornits that have lead me to the conclusion that this industry and those within it are a disgrace.
I think this is true of almost everyone here.
My point was that you should not be afraid to bring your own perspective to the conversation even though it may not sit well with others...i.e. Lets say you read an article that stated the nutritional value of most TBS's food seems to be a bit higher than most private institutions. You may find this interesting and place this in your memory for future conversations but you may not want to share it here on fornits because it would not be taken well or accepted because it would show something positive regarding TBS’s. The act of not sharing (or holding back) your views based on you past experiences and observation slightly diminishes the strength of your independent thinking skills each time.
I am not saying you do this, Oz Girl, just an example.
Post by: Troll Control on April 20, 2007, 10:59:18 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think this is true of almost everyone here.
My point was that you should not be afraid to bring your own perspective to the conversation even though it may not sit well with others...i.e. Lets say you read an article that stated the nutritional value of most TBS's food seems to be a bit higher than most private institutions. You may find this interesting and place this in your memory for future conversations but you may not want to share it here on fornits because it would not be taken well or accepted because it would show something positive regarding TBS’s. The act of not sharing (or holding back) your views based on you past experiences and observation slightly diminishes the strength of your independent thinking skills each time.
I am not saying you do this, Oz Girl, just an example.
Yeah, Oz, you should show independent thinking skills like this:
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Just when you think someone has sunk to lowest level humanly possible, you get this:Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteNow, let's examine this, Who: Let's say, for argument's sake that a kid's very own counselor sexually abuses him/her. ASR's plan, as you verified with them like I did, is to have that child report the abuse directly to the person that perpetrated it.
This is downright scary and paves the road for child abuse. I would avoid this facility at all costs. It's dangerous!
"Sure, DJ, of course it is possible. The guy on the abuse hot line could talk dirty to the kids also..."
::eek3::
You ne3d to think out of the box like this, Oz. TheWho thinks there shouldn't be abuse hotlines in facilities because the kids might "order 100 pizzas" or "The guy on the abuse hotline could talk dirty to the kids also."
Now that's a guy you should be taking your lead from. A true independent thinker[/i]. He's so independent, in fact, that he's the only one on earth who has these thoughts! :oops:
Post by: Oz girl on April 20, 2007, 11:36:26 AM
Post by: exhausted on April 20, 2007, 12:17:32 PM
Does it work the same as it does here? pizza guy turns up and you pay him cash when he gets there?
order a thousand :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on April 20, 2007, 12:39:38 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I dare you to order it for them, :lol:
Does it work the same as it does here? pizza guy turns up and you pay him cash when he gets there?
order a thousand :rofl:
Ha,Ha,Ha, The kids would love it!!! Whats a few hundred bucks? It would be worth it just to break up the routine for a day. Maybe half a day of school if the pizzas showed up in the afternoon.
Post by: Troll Control on April 20, 2007, 12:56:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 20, 2007, 04:18:52 PM
TheWho
Post by: vern on May 07, 2007, 07:01:50 PM
Post by: Rachael on May 08, 2007, 04:31:54 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha,Ha,Ha, The kids would love it!!! Whats a few hundred bucks? It would be worth it just to break up the routine for a day. Maybe half a day of school if the pizzas showed up in the afternoon.
Again: Fuck you Mr. Who.
You mock us. You belittle us. You patronize and degrade us.
We were children beaten, subdued, restrained and humiliated into fragile, shaken husks of the people we had been. We were human and we were taught to be nothing more than lists of our shame and wrongdoing. We were hurt. Horribly, terribly hurt in all sorts of horrifically inventive and unbelievable ways.
How dare you.
Our parents sold us to those who ruined, tortured and raped us. When we told them - cried and screamed out for help, we were marched right back in to complete the "program" and fully destroy any iota of self.
We have lived through what no person, and certainly no child should ever have to face.
So forgive me if I'm angry. Forgive me if I hate. Forgive me if I revile you.
I dare you to mock me again.
Post by: exhausted on May 08, 2007, 06:00:05 PM
Quote from: ""Eliscu2""
*nods*Quote from: ""vern""The stupid fukc posted a video of himself on youtube smoking a bong, guzzling a drink and then doing a shot. He looks like he hasn't showered in weeks and I sit by and be supportive. WHATS WRONG with this picture?
The picture sounds like a lot of teenagers I knew.
The support part doesn't fit.
Hang in there, nothing lasts forever.
If he didn't want you to know what he was doing, he wouldn't be posting this shit in the very place you're going to look .... he trusts you, he's showing it over & over
Hang on in there, he'll bore of the 'excitement'
Post by: hanzomon4 on May 08, 2007, 06:14:51 PM
Post by: Antigen on May 08, 2007, 08:09:32 PM
Post by: vern on May 10, 2007, 06:33:21 AM
Quote
Hang on in thereI'm hangin
Quote
he'll bore of the 'excitement'
I sure hope so.
Quote
it's just a mighty "Fuck You!
I think your probable right
Vern
Post by: exhausted on May 10, 2007, 02:23:27 PM
You're the one solid thing he has in life right now, it's hard on you, it's mentally exhausting, but please, don't give up on him, you can kick his arse later, when he's cleaned up and realised what a jerk he's being :D
Post by: Antigen on May 10, 2007, 07:19:21 PM
Post by: vern on May 13, 2007, 02:30:18 PM
NOT ME but
I just found out his parents had him arrested and sent to rehab.
I don't know any details
fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
I speculate it happened about 4 days ago. I think the youtube video was the last straw for them
fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
:( :flame: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2:
Post by: exhausted on May 13, 2007, 05:30:17 PM
Don't despair - continue your support for him, I just know he'll be okay