Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Topic started by: Covergaard on March 07, 2007, 09:34:43 AM
-
As you can see on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aspen_Education_Group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aspen_Education_Group)
we are debating about the fact that Aspen Education group conducts behavior modification rather than normal education.
The definition of the term behavior modification can be seen here.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_modification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_modification)
Behavior modification is a technique of altering an individual's behaviors and reactions to stimuli through positive and negative reinforcement of adaptive behavior and/or the extinction of maladaptive behavior through positive and negative punishment.
Does Aspen meet the criteria for the use of behavior modification the organisation?
Please state your opinion on the talk page or here.
-
Opinions are like assholes.. Everyone has at least one. ...Show us the hard data.
-
Yes they use a rewards/consequence system, I recall seeing this on one of their websites(I'll look for it) Also in the ASR book the system was describe as an "agreement" or a "contract"(i forget which) to avoid the use of the term punishments/consequences.
If you can... checkout the book from a library, don't buy it. It has some information that may prove useful to you. Also checkout psy's website to get a clearer view of the cedu model of which aspen programs are based.
-
Here's the link to the Aspen site (http://http://www.aspeneducation.com/factsheetbehaviormod.html), I added this to the talk page.
-
They perform normal education in the classroom, and some of the therapy is behavior modification - as is ALL therapy, which is the POINT of therapy.
Wikipedia loved your Aspen notes, huh?
Which one in Dumb and Dumber were you?
Bwahaha....
-
Being sent away and having contact with your parents/family severed is the ultimate punishment. Having rights called privileges is punishment. Lacking any real skill to help kids restore their passion for life, to motivate or inspire them, they use outdated methods and techniques to force the appearance of change. They reach them how to 'act' rather than to 'be' at peace. All they can do is argue semantics. Every aspect of the program is BM, and too heavy on the punishment. Getting to use condiments or eat hot food is not a reward, unless you first deprive the hell out of someone. This is not a shread of independent, unbiased, evidence to show these programs are beneficial.
BTW, rules are called 'agreements', as if these kids 'agreed' to anything, or were even asked to agree. Talk about your manipulating mind fuck games. The programs are worse than the kids ever thought of being. Same in all the CEDU knock-offs.
Kids typically are required to sign a 'contract' before they can leave the campus, detailing what they can/can't do.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=53849#53849 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=53849#53849)
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=61374#61374 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=61374#61374)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=225152#225152 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=225152#225152)
-
I strongly disagree on this one; you have taken an unpopular viewpoint based on antiquated stories. We can all sit here and argue whether rules are agreements or signing a contract is good or bad, how much BM is too much etc. The bottom line is that many of these programs are extremely effective in keeping a child safe and getting them back on their path in life which is what these programs are all about. Learning to start a fire before you can have a hot meal isn’t abusive. Cold meals are just as good for you and as nutritious, hiking thru the woods, setting up your own shelter builds self esteem which is lacking in many children who attend these programs.
It is priceless to see the looks on these kids faces when they start their own fire using flint and dried bark and then proceed to cook a meal…just isn’t something you can easily accomplish thru local services.
The programs of a decade ago are mostly gone and the programs of today greatly outpace those of a year ago. These programs are evolving and building everyday as they incorporate new ideas based on recent studies and parents feed back as they continuously strive to increase effectiveness.
-
The bottom line is that many of these programs are extremely effective
Basis?
-
I strongly disagree on this one; you have taken an unpopular viewpoint based on antiquated stories. We can all sit here and argue whether rules are agreements or signing a contract is good or bad, how much BM is too much etc. The bottom line is that many of these programs are extremely effective in keeping a child safe and getting them back on their path in life which is what these programs are all about. Learning to start a fire before you can have a hot meal isn’t abusive. Cold meals are just as good for you and as nutritious, hiking thru the woods, setting up your own shelter builds self esteem which is lacking in many children who attend these programs.
It is priceless to see the looks on these kids faces when they start their own fire using flint and dried bark and then proceed to cook a meal…just isn’t something you can easily accomplish thru local services.
The programs of a decade ago are mostly gone and the programs of today greatly outpace those of a year ago. These programs are evolving and building everyday as they incorporate new ideas based on recent studies and parents feed back as they continuously strive to increase effectiveness.
::T::
Now come on folks that was some good spin....
Ok, kidding aside these programs are dangerous. I'm not going to wait around for a suicide or a death before I start putting the fire to asses. I want to give survivors the chance to voice what their experience was first and far most. Most of the Aspen parents report good results or no abuse, however the students usually find somethings inappropriate and have mixed feelings. Beyond that if you start asking detailed question, and not were you "abused" or "not abused", the abusive trends of cedu shows it's ugly head.
Parents Anonwhos and whos get your kids on here if they don't mind sharing the details of their programs. Look, I'm not saying that the word of a parent is bullshit, but it is when you don't provide details. Some parents have given details that showed Aspen as abusive cedu style, and these parents viewed the program in a positive light.
So parents, know that some very knowledgeable old timer survivors that know what abuse is in program will pick apart your story. The reason they do this is because the details often show a program that mirrors another program that was confirmed to be abusive after years and years of denial from the program and the parents.
I have to quote School Daze to you folks "Wake up!"
-
hanzomon4 wrote:
I'm not going to wait around for a suicide or a death before I start putting the fire to asses. [/b].
Unfortunately, you are right, they will occur; I think it would be reckless to say all suicides/deaths can be prevented. Suicides occur everywhere people are. The key is to find the safest place for a child at risk…here is some recent data that shows the high level of safety in some of these programs.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=258477#258477 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=258477#258477)
Most of the Aspen parents report good results or no abuse, however the students usually find somethings inappropriate and have mixed feelings. Beyond that if you start asking detailed question, and not were you "abused" or "not abused", the abusive trends of cedu shows it's ugly head.
As you said the parents and kids attending have not experienced nor reported abuse because they are non-abusive programs. I am sure if you looked at the details of any story you could interpret portions of it to be abusive as could stories of a childs everyday life i.e. a child who gets Saturday detention at any public or private school and tells their story could be interpreted as isolation from their family and peers, no cell phones could construed as abusive, Sunday school could get interpreted as LGAT.
So parents, know that some very knowledgeable old timer survivors that know what abuse is in program will pick apart your story. The reason they do this is because the details often show a program that mirrors another program that was confirmed to be abusive after years and years of denial from the program and the parents.
But what is the point if the child is back on track, doing well and moving along with his or her life and views their time in the program as non abusive, why try to convince them otherwise?
-
Who, you can twist words better then most. Nice try though
::roflmao::
-
The key is to find the safest place for a child at risk…here is some recent data that shows the high level of safety in some of these programs.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=258477#258477 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=258477#258477)
Let's not pretend this is actual data.
-
Where are the 42 deaths between 200-2004?
-
Rocco Magliozzi. Died prettty recently at your favourite Aspen camp Who
-
Where are the 42 deaths between 200-2004?
Send them over, if they meet the parameters I will add them in. Its a group effort, if someone has a name we should add it.
-
As much as I think this table of deaths is ridiculous because it misses all of the wider moral issues connected to this meanspirited industry, Why has there been none for Summer Camps. Afterall they are a longstanding American tradition tradition. How many kids have died in one of these?
-
Here is an examle of a teen's behavior after going through a behavior-mod program:
By ADAM ASHTON
MERCED SUN-STAR
August 4, 2005
WINTON - The 17-year-old boy who allegedly spray-painted racist slurs in front of a black woman's home last week is one of nine teenagers who participated in a reality TV program to learn better manners.
Isaiah Alarcon has a national audience once a week on ABC's "Brat Camp," which documents his progress through a 50-day Oregon wilderness camp with a focus on disciplining troubled teens.
Now back from the camp, the Atwater High School student reportedly admitted to Merced County Sheriff's Department deputies that he used spray paint to scrawl "spook" and "N---ers live here" in front of preschool teacher Angelic Royal's home on Palomino Drive early Friday morning.
Alarcon and his friend Christopher Farenelli, 18, wrote the slurs and drew a swastika in the street after a drunken night of partying in Ceres, authorities said.
The teens told sheriff's deputies that they did not mean any harm with the graffiti, and Royal said Alarcon tried to clean up the slurs before he was taken into custody Saturday.
Alarcon spent the weekend in Juvenile Hall and was charged with damaging property and interference of civil rights, Sheriff Mark Pazin said.
He said the situation was ironic, but with some serious consequences for Alarcon.
"Reality TV has taken the place of long-term rehabilitation," Pazin said. "These kids had some real serious issues that needed to be dealt with in a long-term process, not a multiweek TV program for entertainment."
Alarcon's mother, Virginia, declined to allow her son to comment Wednesday. She told the Sun-Star last week that his behavior had improved since he returned from "Brat Camp."
The TV show's Web site describes him as an "angry punk rocker who smokes, drinks and has an obsession with fire." The show airs Wednesday at 8 p.m.
"Brat Camp" takes place at SageWalk, a wilderness school at which teens can learn anger management and educational skills. It was filmed between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Alarcon escaped from the camp in one of the episodes, according to an ABC press release.
Farenelli was arrested Saturday after he turned himself into the Sheriff's Department. He faces charges of suspicion of a vandalism and criminal conspiracy charge. He was released after posting $5,200 bail.
Both young men might face increased penalties if they are charged with committing a hate crime. The district attorney's office has not decided what charges it will pursue in their prosecution, Chief Deputy District Attorney Larry Morse II said Tuesday.
Royal, 37, discovered the graffiti when she looked out her window early Friday. She said she brought Alarcon water when she saw him scrubbing the graffiti Saturday morning.
"I think maybe he got caught up in the moment, and what a price to pay," she said.
There is no change with these behavior modification programs, I sent my child to Second Nature and he is still doing fine five years later. They use a different model than these behavior modification programs.
-
Oh yeah? Well I sent my kid to Second Nature, he killed me for it, and I'm posting this from HELL!
-
As much as I think this table of deaths is ridiculous because it misses all of the wider moral issues connected to this meanspirited industry, Why has there been none for Summer Camps. Afterall they are a longstanding American tradition tradition. How many kids have died in one of these?
Good Point OzGirl, it would be interesting to see summer camps compared to wilderness and TBS's, I wonder if the data exists, does anyone know?
-
A 40 year old 2nd cousin of mine did something like this kid did not so long ago.
Here is an examle of a teen's behavior after going through a behavior-mod program:
By ADAM ASHTON
MERCED SUN-STAR
August 4, 2005
WINTON - The 17-year-old boy who allegedly spray-painted racist slurs in front of a black woman's home last week is one of nine teenagers who participated in a reality TV program to learn better manners.
Isaiah Alarcon has a national audience once a week on ABC's "Brat Camp," which documents his progress through a 50-day Oregon wilderness camp with a focus on disciplining troubled teens.
Now back from the camp, the Atwater High School student reportedly admitted to Merced County Sheriff's Department deputies that he used spray paint to scrawl "spook" and "N---ers live here" in front of preschool teacher Angelic Royal's home on Palomino Drive early Friday morning.
Alarcon and his friend Christopher Farenelli, 18, wrote the slurs and drew a swastika in the street after a drunken night of partying in Ceres, authorities said.
The teens told sheriff's deputies that they did not mean any harm with the graffiti, and Royal said Alarcon tried to clean up the slurs before he was taken into custody Saturday.
Alarcon spent the weekend in Juvenile Hall and was charged with damaging property and interference of civil rights, Sheriff Mark Pazin said.
He said the situation was ironic, but with some serious consequences for Alarcon.
"Reality TV has taken the place of long-term rehabilitation," Pazin said. "These kids had some real serious issues that needed to be dealt with in a long-term process, not a multiweek TV program for entertainment."
Alarcon's mother, Virginia, declined to allow her son to comment Wednesday. She told the Sun-Star last week that his behavior had improved since he returned from "Brat Camp."
The TV show's Web site describes him as an "angry punk rocker who smokes, drinks and has an obsession with fire." The show airs Wednesday at 8 p.m.
"Brat Camp" takes place at SageWalk, a wilderness school at which teens can learn anger management and educational skills. It was filmed between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Alarcon escaped from the camp in one of the episodes, according to an ABC press release.
Farenelli was arrested Saturday after he turned himself into the Sheriff's Department. He faces charges of suspicion of a vandalism and criminal conspiracy charge. He was released after posting $5,200 bail.
Both young men might face increased penalties if they are charged with committing a hate crime. The district attorney's office has not decided what charges it will pursue in their prosecution, Chief Deputy District Attorney Larry Morse II said Tuesday.
Royal, 37, discovered the graffiti when she looked out her window early Friday. She said she brought Alarcon water when she saw him scrubbing the graffiti Saturday morning.
"I think maybe he got caught up in the moment, and what a price to pay," she said.
There is no change with these behavior modification programs, I sent my child to Second Nature and he is still doing fine five years later. They use a different model than these behavior modification programs.
-
Keep in mind the following is a reality TV show
A 40 year old 2nd cousin of mine did something like this kid did not so long ago.
Here is an examle of a teen's behavior after going through a behavior-mod program:
By ADAM ASHTON
MERCED SUN-STAR
August 4, 2005
WINTON - The 17-year-old boy who allegedly spray-painted racist slurs in front of a black woman's home last week is one of nine teenagers who participated in a reality TV program to learn better manners.
Isaiah Alarcon has a national audience once a week on ABC's "Brat Camp," which documents his progress through a 50-day Oregon wilderness camp with a focus on disciplining troubled teens.
Now back from the camp, the Atwater High School student reportedly admitted to Merced County Sheriff's Department deputies that he used spray paint to scrawl "spook" and "N---ers live here" in front of preschool teacher Angelic Royal's home on Palomino Drive early Friday morning.
Alarcon and his friend Christopher Farenelli, 18, wrote the slurs and drew a swastika in the street after a drunken night of partying in Ceres, authorities said.
The teens told sheriff's deputies that they did not mean any harm with the graffiti, and Royal said Alarcon tried to clean up the slurs before he was taken into custody Saturday.
Alarcon spent the weekend in Juvenile Hall and was charged with damaging property and interference of civil rights, Sheriff Mark Pazin said.
He said the situation was ironic, but with some serious consequences for Alarcon.
"Reality TV has taken the place of long-term rehabilitation," Pazin said. "These kids had some real serious issues that needed to be dealt with in a long-term process, not a multiweek TV program for entertainment."
Alarcon's mother, Virginia, declined to allow her son to comment Wednesday. She told the Sun-Star last week that his behavior had improved since he returned from "Brat Camp."
The TV show's Web site describes him as an "angry punk rocker who smokes, drinks and has an obsession with fire." The show airs Wednesday at 8 p.m.
"Brat Camp" takes place at SageWalk, a wilderness school at which teens can learn anger management and educational skills. It was filmed between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Alarcon escaped from the camp in one of the episodes, according to an ABC press release.
Farenelli was arrested Saturday after he turned himself into the Sheriff's Department. He faces charges of suspicion of a vandalism and criminal conspiracy charge. He was released after posting $5,200 bail.
Both young men might face increased penalties if they are charged with committing a hate crime. The district attorney's office has not decided what charges it will pursue in their prosecution, Chief Deputy District Attorney Larry Morse II said Tuesday.
Royal, 37, discovered the graffiti when she looked out her window early Friday. She said she brought Alarcon water when she saw him scrubbing the graffiti Saturday morning.
"I think maybe he got caught up in the moment, and what a price to pay," she said.
There is no change with these behavior modification programs, I sent my child to Second Nature and he is still doing fine five years later. They use a different model than these behavior modification programs.
Keep in mind it is a reality TV show, unless they can create drama no one will watch it.
...
-
Keep in mind that that is Who's opinion that no one else in the industry shares, particularly program owners and producers.
Brat Camp executive producer Arnold Shapiro has legitimate credentials. He produced the landmark Scared Straight documentary that won an Oscar in 1978 bringing troubled kids face-to-face with hardened criminals in a real prison to steer them from a life of crime. On the other side, his name is also associated with Big Brother and Blow Out, reality TV at its worst.
Shapiro said Brat Camp (a name he was stuck with contractually when the show concept was imported from England) is a serious documentary that will offer hope to thousands of parents dealing with troubled, ill-mannered children.
Redcliff says it's a Documentary and takes it pretty damn seriously
http://www.redcliffascent.com/brat_camp_history.html (http://www.redcliffascent.com/brat_camp_history.html)
SUWS calls it a Documentary
http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html (http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html)
as do all these other programs:
SageWalk was chosen for the Brat Camp series because our exciting, powerful, and transformational wilderness school is one of the most effective programs for reaching teens struggilng with behavior and academics.
http://www.sagewalk.com/bratcamp/ (http://www.sagewalk.com/bratcamp/)
Mountain Homes Youth Ranch works with the same types of youth who would qualify for the popular TV show "Brat Camp".
http://www.mhyr.com/brat_camp.html?gcli ... JAodpWA_9A (http://www.mhyr.com/brat_camp.html?gclid=CNTTiPju2YkCFTzqJAodpWA_9A)
Oh hell, that's enough. Point made.
2004 GRIERSON AWARD
BRAT CAMP series
Shortlisted, Best Documentary Series or Strand.
Tamara Abood, producer for London based Twenty Twenty Television, which created Brat Camp, says antisocial behavior among teen and issues of family breakdown were grabbing headlines and political attention in Britain at the time the show was being conceptualized. "The idea was to show how our cousins across the water tackle these issues," Abbod says. "We wanted to educate and inform families."....
Redcliff claims they were hesitant...and... "The thing that swayed us more than anything else is we were promised we would have therapeutic control over how things would go," he says. "We told the company we would not alter the program or stage events. We were going to do whatever was necessary to make sure it was in the child's best interest. We were there to provide treatment."
When Redcliff was asked to do a sequel they declined, "For a program to continue to be successful on TV it need to continually up itself the next season. When you're dealing with troubled kids and the wilderness, the only things we could think of were tougher kids or worse weather. We're not willing to take that risk."
Don't ya know they weren't.
-
After speaking with close to 100 former participants, as a former therapist, I would have no doubt saying that the b.m. is the essence of their business model - how to keep secrecy and control. Whatever other therapy happens in these programs may be useful but only by accident. The psychic rape involved in the points and levels system is brutal. I'm sure that the degree of severity differs from program to program.
I don't know about their weight loss programs. I suspect they are employing a "kinder gentler" sort of behavior mod.
-
The bottom line is that many of these programs are extremely effective in keeping a child safe and getting them back on their path in life which is what these programs are all about. .
Cite your sources please. Independent, long term studies by qualified people. No parent surveys or questionaires.
You throw that out there all the time with nothing to back it up. Please refrain from making statement that you have absolutely nothing to support them.
-
After speaking with close to 100 former participants, as a former therapist, I would have no doubt saying that the b.m. is the essence of their business model - how to keep secrecy and control. Whatever other therapy happens in these programs may be useful but only by accident. The psychic rape involved in the points and levels system is brutal. I'm sure that the degree of severity differs from program to program.
I don't know about their weight loss programs. I suspect they are employing a "kinder gentler" sort of behavior mod.
It's the essence of ALL of them. Bottom line is, programs are about changing kids against their will (for their own good :roll: ). Unless you've got a dx from a psychiatrist that says you're an imminent threat to yourself or others, it's illegal to hold someone.
These places couldn't continue to exist without the extreme strict controls they place on a child and his/her environment. I keep putting this up but it's because it's what helped me the most to understand what had been done to me.
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions)
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics)
Pay special attention to the sections that deal with environment, thought and information control. Scary stuff.